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[EnglishLanguage 2357] Re: Language learning and children
robinschwarz1 at aol.com
robinschwarz1 at aol.comThu May 8 12:59:48 EDT 2008
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GREAT STORY!!! Similar to the experience of my daughters. Robin Lovrien Schwarz
-----Original Message-----
From: Ujwala Samant <lalumineuse at yahoo.com>
To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 7 May 2008 3:35 pm
Subject: [EnglishLanguage 2344] Re: Language learning and children
--- Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> wrote:
> For what it is worth I do not believe that
> "if a child is not exposed to a sound in the first
> three years of life, then
> the ability for the brain to recognize that sound
> later (when learning a
> second language) is limited, or even precluded."
> I simply know too many exceptions to that rule,
> including myself. It is not
> true for all. It may be true for some.
>
> I believe that the brain is a Darwinian space. If a
> child is exposed to more
> than one language, this will develop an ability to
> process the sounds and
> structure of that language to some extent. If that
> is not continued this
> ability will decline. But reviving that ability will
> be easier, I believe,
> than starting from scratch. In either case, the
> motivation of the learner,
> the willingness to project oneself into the position
> of a speaker of another
> language, the position of a member of another
> cultural community,this
> attitude will be the most important factor. If a
> child can enjoy stories of
> another culture, and can enjoy the music and
> structure of another language,
> this will prepare the child for serious study
later.<<
That sounds like my son's experience of Arabic. When
living in a suburb of Paris, he picked up Arabic from
his babysitter who was Algerian and our neighbours who
were Tunisian. When he was 4 we moved to the US and
English replaced Arabic. We returned to France 5 years
ago and his teacher who was Tunisian told us that our
son's pronunciation of Arabic sounds was perfect. My
son told me he sometimes felt he had a filing cabinet
inside his brain and sounds just came out right.
Thought that was a good description, because it has
spurred his desire to learn languages, especially
Arabic.
> As Rubem Alves, famous Brazilian educator said
>
> *Se o conhecimento científico de anatomia fosse
> condição para se fazer
> amor, os professores de anatomia seriam amantes
> insuperáveis. Se o
> conhecimento acadêmico da gramática fosse condição
> para se fazer
> literatura, os gramáticos seria escritores
> insuperáveis. Mas essa não é a
> verdade. ...
>
> Gramática se faz com palavras mortas. Literatura se
> faz com palavras vivas.*
>
> "If the scientific knowledge of anatomy were a
> condition for making love,
> professors of anatomy would be unrivaled lovers. If
> the academic knowledge
> of grammar were a condition for making literature,
> grammarians would be
> unrivaled writers. But this is not the case.....
>
> Grammar is made with words that are dead. Literature
> is made with words that
> are alive."
> So let's teach the love of the language, not the
> academic details.,,
How beautiful!
Thanks very much for reminding us that language is
about poetry, discovery....
Ujwala
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, May 7, 2008 at 5:16 AM, Martin Senger
> <MSenger at gecac.org> wrote:
>
> > Pax all!
> >
> >
> >
> > I think I should clarify what I am proposing. I
> was just wondering if
> > someone passively exposed a child (less than three
> years of age) to the
> > sounds of different languages, would that child
> retain the *ability to
> > recognize those sounds* later in life. Some
> research states that if a
> > child is not exposed to a sound in the first three
> years of life, then the
> > ability for the brain to recognize that sound
> later (when learning a second
> > language) is limited, or even precluded.
> >
> >
> >
> > Also, to play devil's advocate, would passive
> learning on a limited basis
> > (recorded samples of a language) provide any
> long-term benefit for second
> > language acquisition? I am not a researcher, nor a
> holder of advanced
> > degrees; I am simply an ESL teacher with a curious
> mind!
> >
> >
> >
> > Martin E. Senger
> >
> > Adult ESL Teacher
> >
> > GECAC / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center
> >
> > Erie, Pa
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:
> > englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of
> *Martin Senger
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 2:07 PM
> > *To:* The Adult English Language Learners
> Discussion List
> > *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 2331] Multiple
> language learning
> >
> >
> >
> > Pax all!
> >
> >
> >
> > Praised be for the Internet! I did a quick google,
> and found the tem
> > "hypnopedia." It refers explicitly to learning
> while sleeping. While pretty
> > much debunked for general learning, I saw nothing
> which talks strictly about
> > sound processing. Just from my own experience,
> there may be something to it.
> > I know, from the aforementioned 4 & 2-year olds,
> if they make even the
> > slightest "odd" sound while I am sleeping, I am
> instantly wide awake. I then
> > listen intently (hence the "wide awake") to hear
> any follow-up sounds worth
> > investigating. So, that must mean my brain is in
> some way processing some
> > sounds.
> >
> >
> >
> > Now I am not saying you could learn another
> "language" while sleeping, but
> > is it possible that we could introduce, or maybe
> even "teach" new language
> > sounds to the sleeping brain? What say you?
> >
> >
> >
> > Martin E. Senger
> >
> > Adult ESL Teacher
> >
> > GECAC / The R. Benjamin Wiley Learning Center
> >
> > Erie, Pa
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:
> > englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of
> *Andrea Canter
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:04 PM
> > *To:* englishlanguage at nifl.gov
> > *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 2328] Re:
> EnglishLanguage Digest, Vol 32,
> > Issue 15
> >
> >
> >
> > Robin,
> >
> > Are their books pretty accessible to lay-people?
> >
> > Andrea
> >
> > On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 8:23 AM,
> <englishlanguage-request at nifl.gov> wrote:
> >
> > Send EnglishLanguage mailing list submissions to
> > englishlanguage at nifl.gov
> >
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide
> Web, visit
> >
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> >
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> >
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> is more specific
>
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