I have learned Chinese, Japanese, Russian and Korean where the Roman
alphabet is of no help. I have not found closed captioning in the target
language to be helpful until you are very far along in the language. You
cannot read that fast in a strange script until you are advanced.

I recommend combining reading and listening as the main learning tools, and
treating movies strictly as entertainment, and as a means to connect with
the culture, which is of course very motivating.

Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com

On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Martha Bigelow <mbigelow at umn.edu> wrote:


>  I'm checking with some folks about research, but I have some thoughts.

>

>

>

> I'm imagining how hard it would be for me to recognize letters, much less

> words, in Arabic.   What about logographic script?  I'd be hopeless.  Give

> me a romance or Germanic language and I'd probably have fun picking out

> cognates and matching sounds to script.

>

>

>

> For someone who is not print literate in any language, the closed

> captioning can be pretty fast.  They need a level of automaticity in reading

> in the L2.   I think captions would probably be great for learners who have

> literacy in an alphabetic script already and are developing English reading

> skills.  Perhaps with basic print concepts in place and some sight words

> memorized, students could begin with it.

>

>

>

>

>

> *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:

> englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of *Amy Stotts

> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2009 2:22 PM

> *To:* The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

> *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 3702] Re: Post critical period oral L2

> learning ofadults w/low L1 litearcy

>

>

>

> When I work with the lowest level English learners in our workplace and

> general English programs, I am frequently struck by how few English language

> situations they participate in. For many of our program participants, the

> classroom is the most English input and interaction that the learner

> receives. While I have created some interactive interviews and surveys to

> encourage greater use of English, this may add only an hour of additional

> English input and interaction in a week.

>

>

>

> Many of our English learners from basic to advanced levels have favorite TV

> shows. I have frequently encouraged adult students to turn on the closed

> captioning on their TVs to encourage using the words to enhance listening or

> the listening to enhance print familiarity. Does anyone know of studies that

> have examined the efficacy of this practice in first or second language

> literacy?

>

>

>

> Amy

>

>

>  ------------------------------

>

> *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:

> englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] *On Behalf Of *Charlotte Van Londen

> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 28, 2009 9:31 AM

> *To:* The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

> *Subject:* RE: [EnglishLanguage 3676] Re: Post critical period oral L2

> learning ofadults w/low L1 litearcy

>

>

>

> I am enjoying the academic discussion on L2 acquisition for adults with low

> L1 literacy. These students have to overcome a double obstacle. If I may I

> would like to add a very practicle component to the discussion.

>

> In a lot of adult esl programs we find teachers with a limited background

> in TESOL dealing with a group of students with a mix of literate levels.Can

> we come up with some practical tips for these teachers that will help

> them serve the needs of the low literate students.How they can adjust

> activities to make them suitable for both groups.

>

> One idea would be to have the literate group write simple directions to

> teach the illiterate group through Total Physical Response. For example "Sit

> Down" "Stand Up" etc.

>

>

>

> Charlotte van Londen

>   ------------------------------

>

> *From:* englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Elaine Tarone

> *Sent:* Wed 1/28/2009 11:15 AM

> *To:* The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List

> *Subject:* [EnglishLanguage 3676] Re: Post critical period oral L2

> learning ofadults w/low L1 litearcy

>

>

>

> I'm just urging caution:  There is undoubtedly lots of research on how the

> brain learns, but almost all of it, (except for studies like Reis and

> Castro-Caldas, Read et al, etc) is research on the brains of literate

> people.

>

>

>

> There are brain imaging studies showing that literate and illiterate brain

> images are different during oral pseudoword repetition tasks, where

> individuals can't process words semantically but have to process them in

> terms of linguistic form.      (One such is Castro-Caldas et al (1998) Brain

> 121, 1053-1063.)

>

>

>

> These results are consistent with what teachers tell us they see in the

> classroom with regard to the difficulties typically experienced by adults

> who aren't alphabetically literate in 'focus on form' type activities.

>  There are cognitive reasons why literacy affects certain kinds of oral

> language processing.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

> On Jan 28, 2009, at 9:23 AM, Steve Kaufmann wrote:

>

>

>

> I am not talking about generalizations about how the brain learns. I ma

> referring to the work of Manfred Spitzer who describes where in the brain

> this leaning takes place and how.

>

> Reading is learned in a different area of the brain from the spoken

> language, by the way. In any case there is a lot of research on how the

> brain learns, and that research should be applied to teaching. We should

> recognize that learning takes place in the brain, not in the classroom, as

> Spitzer says.  Read Spitzer's book on learning and the brain when it comes

> out in English.

>

> Steve Kaufmann

> www.lingq.com

>

> On Wed, Jan 28, 2009 at 5:27 AM, Elaine Tarone <etarone at umn.edu> wrote:

>

> There is research demonstrating significant differences in cognitive

> processing between matched groups of literate and illiterate adults.  I can

> send copies of these studies to anyone who is interested.

>

>

>

> These studies suggest that we need to be very cautious in making

> generalizations about the way illiterate adults' brains process and acquire

> second languages.

>

>

>

> In the meantime, it is very important to do what we are doing in this

> discussion -- share information on what works in classrooms, and what

> doesn't.

>

>

>

>

>

> On Jan 27, 2009, at 8:46 PM, Steve Kaufmann wrote:

>

>

>

> I  believe that our brain will, with enough exposure to content that is

> relevant and interesting, start to sort out some rules relating to word

> order, and other aspects of the structure of the new language, with or

> without explicit grammar explanations and drills. Some degree of grammar

> review, corrections etc, are helpful but not necessary, and not as important

> as the massive input. Most learners attending ESL language class do not get

> enough input of English.

>

> Some aspects of a new language may never stick. In English, articles are

> difficult for people form languages without articles. The spoken difference

> between "he" and "she"  is difficult for well educated Chinese people, even

> after ten or more years of grammar study, and even though the concept is not

> difficult and universally understood. It  just does not exist in Chinese, so

> it is hard to develop the natural ability to say "she" and "he" when

> required.

>

> >From my reading and observation, the brain sorts these things out on its

> own schedule, and slowly. Explanations and drills are relatively

> ineffective, but can help a little. Only lots of input will enable the brain

> to gradually get better, as long as there is a will, and the input

> continues. That has been my experience in learning Russian over the last 2

> years, and that has been the experience of many others who are prepared to

> put in the time, listening and reading, according to what they have told me.

>

> Obviously the non-reader is at a disadvantage. However, intensive listening

> on an iPod to content of interest could go a long way. However, I admit I

> have no experience with non-literate learners.

>

> Steve Kaufmann

> www.lingq.com

>

> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 3:58 PM, Elaine Tarone <etarone at umn.edu> wrote:

>

> It is possible that formal teaching imposes accuracy standards that are

> very difficult to attain unless the learner is alphabetically literate.  I

> think this is particularly true of grammatical features that do not

> dramatically change the semantics, like word order in questions and final

> morphemes that are really redundant in context.   Maybe teachers can find

> other ways to communicate those standards (like use of cuisinaire rods to

> show word order shifts) to make the learner aware of the difference between

> their production and the accurate target.

>

>

>

>

>

> On Jan 27, 2009, at 5:10 PM, Steve Kaufmann wrote:

>

>

>

> Is it possible that formal teaching imposes accuracy standards on learners

> that are either not relevant to their own language goals, or applied too

> soon in their language development? We all know fluent speakers of English

> and other languages who make many mistakes.

>

> Steve Kaufmann

> www.lingq.com

>

> On Tue, Jan 27, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Martha Bigelow <mbigelow at umn.edu> wrote:

>

> Anne,

>

> This is fascinating.  Would you happen to have a publication or citation

> you could share with the list yet?  I'm sure many would be very interested

> to read more, even if it is a handout.  I'm often overwhelmed by the English

> language fluency and pragmatic skills of the teens I've worked with.  But

> sometimes the transcriptions show surprises!  They are not as accurate as

> they seem.

>

> Martha

>

>

>

>

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>

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