[EnglishLanguage 3496] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12ESLIHABRAMSON at aol.com IHABRAMSON at aol.comSun Jan 18 20:27:08 EST 2009
Hello. In some adult education programs I have worked with, students were on welfare and had to come to our classes (or risk losing benefits). "Resource sharing" meant using kindergarten readers for basic ESL adults. This saved money but the practice was considered degrading by some staff, especially since the enrollees really had no choice in the matter. Any thoughts from the list? Ilene _ihabramson at aol.com_ (mailto:ihabramson at aol.com) In a message dated 1/18/2009 10:21:42 AM Eastern Standard Time, BDiaz at dadeschools.net writes: In our district,the last superintendent had the vision of a seamless K-adult program. The adult ESOL program was the first one moved to a K-12 division under Curriculum and Development. Moving our adult ESOL program, servicing 40, 000+ students with 800+ teachers, into the Division of Bilingual Education and World Languages helped establish a good professional working retation with K-12 folks. Their programs and ours have benefited from the merge in several ways: professional development, resource sharing, community outreach and policy making. This is the third year of our joint venture and it gets better everyday as both groups collaborate to service our English learners. We have saved money, a good thing in budget tight times, and have learned from each other so practitioners and administrators from both programs (K-12 and adult) now have common goals that have lead to better service and more community outreach. ________________________________ From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Martin Senger Sent: Fri 1/16/2009 7:46 AM To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3449] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12ESL Pax et bonum Marieke! I would love to hear more details about your group. Here in Erie (PA), the K-12 admin (I haven't contacted individual K-12 ESL teachers) establishment doesn't seem very interested in working with ABE. Did you find that also? Did you deal with the groups on a local/regional/state level? Do you have any existing teacher "networks" of either K-12 or ABE? We have the Professional Development Center (PDC), which is in charge of professional development for ABE teachers. They are an official part of the PA Dept of Ed. (PDE). Through them, we have created a very active teachers' network (the most active in the state), with around 5-10 participants every month (almost every adult ESL program in the area is represented). Our meetings are around 3 hours, and we usually have a guest speaker, but we also have time to just "debrief" with other ESL teachers. We have years of experience between the lot of us. We have become very good friends through our "commiserating." I haven't found anything (yet) similar in the K-12 field. As of right now, there are NO lines of communication between us and the K-12 crowd. Like I said, the local school admin has shown very little enthusiasm for cooperation. I would at least like to open one, so there would be some potential of communication and cooperation. Any suggestions? Martin E. Senger Adult ESL / Civics Teacher, G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Banjamin Wiley Learning Center Erie, Pa. Co-Director, ESL Special Interest Group Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE) From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mareike Fitz Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 3:47 PM To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3436] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12ESL Martin, The networking started with individual teachers from three different institutions (2 school and 1 non-profit ABE). We met and put together a mini "language learning" workshop/ conference. This included a local specialist in that field as a keynote speaker, I modeled a German class for the attendees to analyze, and we finished in an activity swap. The overall topic was learning strategies. We invited teachers, volunteer tutors and any language learning enthusiasts to participate. Around 25 attended, which is quite significant for a town of 8000. In this 1st meeting we surveyed the participants about their interest in pursuing our meetings. Most were very interested and many were happy to volunteer as a presenter in the future. We will meet again in a couple of months and have different presenters. Since financial means for regular visits of conferences are rare for us these days this project is an affordable way to share the knowledge we have and benefit from each other. Greetings from snowy Wyoming, Mareike Mareike Fitz Adult Program Director (307)733 9242 ext. 226 mareike at tetonliteracy.org On Jan 15, 2009, at 12:18 PM, Martin Senger wrote: Pax et bonum Marieke! Could you offer some specifics on how the groups came together, or what do they do currently? Martin E. Senger Adult ESL / Civics Teacher, G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Banjamin Wiley Learning Center Erie, Pa. Co-Director, ESL Special Interest Group Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE) From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mareike Fitz Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 11:44 AM To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3429] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12ESL This is a very interesting discussion for me to follow. Thanks for the contributions. I agree that working with adults is very different from working with children and youths in the schools. However, the difference is small enough for teachers in both areas to learn from each other. To answer Martin's question, yes, there is cooperation between Adult ESL and teachers where I live. Just recently educators in schools as well as teaching staff from the adult program I work with have started getting together for small workshops. The goal of these meetings is to share our resources/ ideas and to create a network. It has been very successful so far. I would highly recommend it for anybody. Amongst others having the possibility to observe different teachers classes has been a great benefit. mareike Mareike Fitz Adult Program Director (307)733 9242 ext. 226 mareike at tetonliteracy.org On Jan 15, 2009, at 9:02 AM, cece valentine wrote: Athough I have completed studies for a Master's in Early Childhood and am currently certified nk-8, I have found it is a whole different ball game teaching adults. I received a certificate for TESOL from Indian River Community College, it's offered online and they have loads of links and readings for you. Teaching adults is an adult experience for sure!! I taught on the community college level also classes for students in a Nurse's Aid Program, many of whom were GED graduates. cgvalentine --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Glenda Lynn Rose <glyndalin at yahoo.com> wrote: From: Glenda Lynn Rose <glyndalin at yahoo.com> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3413] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12 ESL To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 9:56 AM "Since my program is strictly for parents with young children and the topics pertain to school related vocabulary and events I prefer to hire K-12 ESOL. At the same time I have had a couple K-12 teachers that had a difficult time adjusting their teaching style to a room full of adults." I find it strange that you would prefer to hire people who are trained in pedgagogy, not andragogy, to teach adults. I understand the relationship between the two programs, but can you tell me what in your experience causes you to lean that way? Were the adult ESOL teachers (that apprently didn't do well in your program) actually trained in applied linguistics or adult education? It has been my experience that many K-6 teachers have difficulty making the transition to adult education without a great deal of additional training and support. Grace and Peace! Glenda Lynn Rose, PhD Instuctor, Austin Learning Academy 841-4777 --- On Thu, 1/15/09, Mangum, Laurie (ACE) <Laura.Mangum1 at fcps.edu> wrote: From: Mangum, Laurie (ACE) <Laura.Mangum1 at fcps.edu> Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3412] Re: Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12 ESL To: "The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List" <englishlanguage at nifl.gov> Date: Thursday, January 15, 2009, 8:38 AM Martin I work closely with the K-12 ESOL office but fall under the Adult ESOL umbrella. My program is Family Literacy which is free to parents of elementary school parents and funded by the K-12 Office using Title III funds. My program has been the main link between the two offices for a while. As budgets decrease in our system we have had more meetings between the two groups to see how we can work together. Typically advertising the adult classes at parent events has been the main link between the two organizations. I have hired both K-12 ESOL teachers and Adult ESOL teachers in my program and do see a difference in their teaching. Since my program is strictly for parents with young children and the topics pertain to school related vocabulary and events I prefer to hire K-12 ESOL. At the same time I have had a couple K-12 teachers that had a difficult time adjusting their teaching style to a room full of adults. Laurie Mangum Family Literacy Specialist/Adult ESOL Fairfax County Public Schools Adult & Community Education Plum Center for Lifelong Learning 6815 Edsall Rd. Springfield , VA 22151 From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Martin Senger Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:02 AM To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3411] Cooperation between Adult ESL and K-12 ESL Pax et bonum! (peace & goodness) In your area, is there any/much cooperation between the Adult ESL field (teachers/administrators/professional development/research) and K-12? I work with several adult ESL teacher networks, but have very, very limited contact with the K-12 crowd. Is that the norm, or are we "special?" I have just talked with the PA Dept of Ed/K-12 ESL section, and they said we could use their professional development (when pertinent). I just think it's funny that we have people doing basically the same thing (ESL), but in completely different circles. Is there a big enough difference between adult ed and K-12 to warrant two individual fields? What say you? Martin E. Senger Adult ESL / Civics Teacher, G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Banjamin Wiley Learning Center Erie, Pa. Co-Director, ESL Special Interest Group Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE) From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Brigitte Marshall Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:34 PM To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3410] Re: FW: Re: managingprogramsforadultEnglishlearners So many of us who have pursued management of ESL Programs as a next step in our journey as ESL professionals are very committed to keeping the direct and real connection with the classroom. Several posters to this list discussion have talked about the value of remaining engaged at the classroom level because of their love of teaching and/or their desire to remain connected to students. I know that for a couple of years I struggled to juggle both, being an administrator and a classroom teacher, and in the end I discovered a way to feed my need to teach and stay connected more directly to students at the same time in a way that I had not anticipated. My motivation has always emanated from a commitment to refugee and immigrant students, but when I was asked to teach in an adult credentialing programming, I discovered a whole new way of contributing something that I thought would ultimately be of benefit to refugees and immigrants. Working with teachers as they are learning their craft can be wonderfully rewarding and provided me with the opportunity to engage with teachers in a way that was not evaluative or supervisory - which raises another question I have been wondering about.... When I was going through the administrative credentialing program, the professor who was leading the section on supervision and evaluation made a couple of very strong recommendations; the first was that administrators and program managers should not try to be instructional experts and should not try to critique the teachers they were supervising and observing from a place of expertise. The second was that as the supervisor and/or evaluator, an administrator or program manager is very ill positioned to be a coach, or the person identified to help and support a teacher because the supervisory dynamic will get in the way. What do others think about these recommendations? Can ESL Program Managers continue over time to be experts on instructional practice, or should they acknowledge that being out of the classroom either entirely or more than they are in it, reduces their ability to speak from a platform of expertise? And if an ESL Program Manager does not speak from a platform of instructional and specific ESL expertise, how do they effectively manage and supervise? Do you agree that administrators and program managers are not the best people to be coaches for teachers who need support to develop their craft? If not the Program manager, then who? Brigitte Marshall, Director Oakland Adult and Career Education McClymonds Education Complex 2607 Myrtle Street, Oakland , CA 94607 Tel: (510) 879 3037 Fax: (510) 452 2077 Expect Success. Every student. Every classroom. Every day. From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Diaz, Beatriz B. Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 7:05 PM To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List Subject: RE: [EnglishLanguage 3347] Re: FW: Re: managing programsforadultEnglishlearners As the "leader" of a very large Adult ESOL program, I wear many hats but more and more I find it difficult to get away from my "administrator crown", which is the one I like the least. I strongly believe that programs improve and better service students if leaders are in the class, in the centers and in the community facilating English literacy opportunities and expanding our learning communities. Unfortunately, many hours of my day are spent processing the right form, approving purchase orders and attending meetings. Is this typical of others in similar positions? How have other achieved a balance short of putting in 20 hours of work per day? From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of Betsy Wong Sent: Tue 1/13/2009 10:50 AM To: 'The Adult English Language Learners Discussion List' Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3347] Re: FW: Re: managing programsforadultEnglishlearners In keeping with the spirit of a chain dialogue, I wanted to highlight something that Laurie said: "What I find more important is recognizing really good teaching methods and resources available and providing opportunities to share those in your program." I think that this is a really important part of a program manager's role, and it gets back to the points that have been made about striving to be a visionary and achieving balance. It also points to a solution to a dilemma that many of us face: In the face of shrunken resources, what can we offer teachers when salary increases or full-time positions are simply not on the table? I think that professional development opportunities can be something to help "sell" a program to a prospective teacher and help motivate (and retain) current teachers. This can be through formal in-service meetings responding to teachers' stated needs or informal discussions or focus groups that allow teachers to share ideas and give input on program decisions. What do the rest of you think? Suggestions? Betsy Lindeman Wong Lead ESL Teacher Alexandria Adult and Community Education -----Original Message----- From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Mangum, Laurie (ACE) Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 2009 9:18 AM To: englishlanguage at nifl.gov Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3342] FW: Re: managing programs foradultEnglishlearners I wanted to respond to Brigitte's thought "I think it would be very interesting to explore this last point a little bit more. We have already asked if we think that ESOL Program Managers should ideally have ESOL classroom experience - but what do we think about the need for an effective ESOL Program Manager to have been a good, or really good teacher? Is this a necessary pre-requisite? And is an effective ESOL Program manager's effectiveness derived from their ongoing expertise as a classroom instructor? Is it really possible for an ESOL Program Manager to remain current and a model of good instructional practice? If they don't, could they still be able to manage and supervise other ESL instructors effectively?" My name is Laurie Mangum, I manage the Family Literacy program under Adult ESOL for Fairfax County Public Schools. I had taught a non-intensive ESOL class (first as a volunteer and then paid) before taking on the responsibility to coordinate this program but I always think of my professional background as a project manager. I am often frustrated by the idea in Education that good teachers make good administrators. I don't necessarily think being a really good teacher is a pre-requisite to running a really good program. What I find more important is recognizing really good teaching methods and resources available and providing opportunities to share those in your program. I see part of my job to be a consulting role and look for best practices to share with my staff. Managing the many facets of a program and being adept at changing strategies when something isn't working are also instrumental to being successful in the role. Or as some people have described my job: having the ability to juggle while herding cats. Laurie Mangum Family Literacy Specialist/Adult ESOL Fairfax County Public Schools Adult & Community Education Plum Center for Lifelong Learning 6815 Edsall Rd. Springfield , VA 22151 Phone: 703-658-2760 ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult English Language Learners mailing list EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage Email delivered to betsywong at comcast.net ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult English Language Learners mailing list EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage Email delivered to bdiaz at dadeschools.net---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult English Language Learners mailing list EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage Email delivered to glyndalin at yahoo.com -----Inline Attachment Follows----- ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult English Language Learners mailing list EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage Email delivered to cgv757 at yahoo.com ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult English Language Learners mailing list EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage Email delivered to mareike at tetonliteracy.org ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult English Language Learners mailing list EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage Email delivered to mareike at tetonliteracy.org ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult English Language Learners mailing list EnglishLanguage at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/englishlanguage Email delivered to ihabramson at aol.com **************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. 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