Ted,

I am inclined to agree with you, based on the
observations done  for 2 studies.

regards
Ujwala
--- Ted Klein <taklein at austin.rr.com> wrote:


> [EnglishLanguage 3347] Re: FW: Re: managing

> programsforadultEnglishlearnersLaurie,

> 

> Far too often I have noticed that people who teach

> children tend to treat adults like kids and vice

> versa with people who teach adults and change to the

> young ones! It's a difficult adjustment for some.

> 

> Ted

>   ----- Original Message ----- 

>   From: Mangum, Laurie (ACE) 

>   To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion

> List 

>   Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:38 AM

>   Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3412] Re: Cooperation

> between Adult ESL and K-12ESL

> 

> 

>   Martin

> 

>    

> 

>   I work closely with the K-12 ESOL office but fall

> under the Adult ESOL umbrella.  My program is Family

> Literacy which is free to parents of elementary

> school parents and funded by the K-12 Office using

> Title III funds.  My program has been the main link

> between the two offices for a while.  As budgets

> decrease in our system we have had more meetings

> between the two groups to see how we can work

> together.  Typically advertising the adult classes

> at parent events has been the main link between the

> two organizations.  I have hired both K-12 ESOL

> teachers and Adult ESOL teachers in my program and

> do see a difference in their teaching.  Since my

> program is strictly for parents with young children

> and the topics pertain to school related vocabulary

> and events I prefer to hire K-12 ESOL.  At the same

> time I have had a couple K-12 teachers that had a

> difficult time adjusting their teaching style to a

> room full of adults.

> 

>    

> 

>   Laurie Mangum

> 

>   Family Literacy Specialist/Adult ESOL

> 

>   Fairfax County Public Schools

> 

>   Adult & Community Education

> 

>   Plum Center for Lifelong Learning

> 

>   6815 Edsall Rd. 

>   Springfield, VA 22151

> 

>    

> 

>    

> 

> 

>

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> 

>   From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf

> Of Martin Senger

>   Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2009 8:02 AM

>   To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion

> List

>   Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3411] Cooperation

> between Adult ESL and K-12 ESL

> 

>    

> 

>   Pax et bonum! (peace & goodness)

> 

>    

> 

>   In your area, is there any/much cooperation

> between the Adult ESL field

> (teachers/administrators/professional

> development/research) and K-12?

> 

>    

> 

>   I work with several adult ESL teacher networks,

> but have very, very limited contact with the K-12

> crowd. Is that the norm, or are we "special?" I have

> just talked with the PA Dept of Ed/K-12 ESL section,

> and they said we could use their professional

> development (when pertinent). I just think it's

> funny that we have people doing basically the same

> thing (ESL), but in completely different circles. Is

> there a big enough difference between adult ed and

> K-12 to warrant two individual fields? What say you?

> 

>    

> 

>   Martin E. Senger

> 

>   Adult ESL / Civics Teacher,

> 

>   G.E.C.A.C. / The R. Banjamin Wiley Learning Center

> 

>   Erie, Pa.

> 

>   Co-Director,

> 

>   ESL Special Interest Group

> 

>   Pa. Assoc. for Adult Continuing Education (PAACE)

> 

>    

> 

>   From: englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov

> [mailto:englishlanguage-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf

> Of Brigitte Marshall

>   Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2009 11:34 PM

>   To: The Adult English Language Learners Discussion

> List

>   Subject: [EnglishLanguage 3410] Re: FW: Re:

> managingprogramsforadultEnglishlearners

> 

>    

> 

>   So many of us who have pursued management of ESL

> Programs as a next step in our journey as ESL

> professionals are very committed to keeping the

> direct and real connection with the classroom.

> Several posters to this list discussion have talked

> about the value of remaining engaged at the

> classroom level because of their love of teaching

> and/or their desire to remain connected to students.

> I know that for a couple of years I struggled to

> juggle both, being an administrator and a classroom

> teacher, and in the end I discovered a way to feed

> my need to teach and stay connected more directly to

> students at the same time in a way that I had not

> anticipated. My motivation has always emanated from

> a commitment to refugee and immigrant students, but

> when I was asked to teach in an adult credentialing

> programming, I discovered a whole new way of

> contributing something that I thought would

> ultimately be of benefit to refugees and immigrants.

> Working with teachers as they are learning their

> craft can be wonderfully rewarding and provided me

> with the opportunity to engage with teachers in a

> way that was not evaluative or supervisory - which

> raises another question I have been wondering

> about..

> 

>    

> 

>   When I was going through the administrative

> credentialing program, the professor who was leading

> the section on supervision and evaluation made a

> couple of very strong recommendations; the first was

> that administrators and program managers should not

> try to be instructional experts and should not try

> to critique the teachers they were supervising and

> observing from a place of expertise. The second was

> that as the supervisor and/or evaluator, an

> administrator or program manager is very ill

> positioned to be a coach, or the person identified

> to help and support a teacher because the

> supervisory dynamic will get in the way. 

> 

>   What do others think about these recommendations? 

> 

>   Can ESL Program Managers continue over time to be

> experts on instructional practice, or should they

> acknowledge that being out of the classroom either

> entirely or more than they are in it, reduces their

> ability to speak from a platform of expertise? And

> if an ESL Program Manager does not speak from a

> platform of instructional and specific ESL

> expertise, how do they effectively manage and

> supervise?

> 

>   Do you agree that administrators and program

> managers are not the best people to be coaches for

> teachers who need support to develop their craft? If

> not the Program manager, then who?

> 

>    

> 

>   Brigitte Marshall, Director

> 

>   Oakland Adult and Career Education

> 

>   McClymonds Education Complex

> 

>   2607 Myrtle Street, Oakland, CA 94607

> 

>    

> 

>   Tel: (510) 879 3037

> 

>   Fax: (510) 452 2077 

> 

> 

=== message truncated ===>
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