Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8599g717718; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 05:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 05:09:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <003501c3738d$18f2bc90$18aab042@lop.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "ttweeton" <ttweeton@comcast.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9413] Re: Accept English Only donation? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 7304 Lines: 185 "In a civilized society that cherishes its freedom, how do you suggest we "force" any adult to learn English when 22% of all Americans are illiterate and only 5% of those needing services receive them." Ken, I am not in any way suggesting that Americans should ever stop learning either. Learning should be a life long process. FOR ALL. Tanya ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Taber" <kentaber@inetgenesis.com> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 6:45 PM Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9410] Re: Accept English Only donation? > "Basically, would forcing someone (especially children) to learn English > (if they live in the states) really hurt them?" -Tanya > > Tanya, > I am not saying that anyone should be given a free lunch or that K-12 > students should not learn English. In fact, we have a constitutional duty to > so. Adults, that's a different story. We have American-educated English-Only > Adult Citizens that could not pass an English Proficiency Test. Both sides > of the argument want students to be taught English (especially children.) > One question in this debate is whether an ESL Teacher can teach and whether > a student learning the English language will be denied the right to speak in > the student's primary language when states enact English Only laws. We are > not simply just talking about the merits of children to learn the English > language, we are talking about whether students and teachers have a right to > speak in their native tongue. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with > that? > > Another issue is whether the English Only Movement is not allowing any form > of bilingual education and forcing a method of teaching ESL students in > English Only by enacting English Only Laws. Are you saying there is nothing > wrong with that? > > There is another issue in the UK where those seeking a visa must pass a test > before entering this country on a visa in which I believe involves both > language proficiency and other topics selected by UK officials. Are you > saying there is nothing wrong with that? > > In a civilized society that cherishes its freedom, how do you suggest we > "force" any adult to learn English when 22% of all Americans are illiterate > and only 5% of those needing services receive them. Are you saying those > that have a better proficiency of the English language are more superior > than those that have an accent or can't read? Do the literate have more > constitutional rights than the illiterate? > > The sad fact is we need immigrants in our work force. Businesses recruit > immigrants and the government looks the other way. The other reason we need > sound solutions to these problems is that we live in a global society and a > global economy. Just like many of our manufacturing jobs are going > elsewhere, many European and Asian jobs are coming here. If we are hostile > to those who speak languages other than English, we are hurting our economy > more than we helping it. > > Therefore, if the influx of foreign born citizens are here to stay, then > doesn't it stand to reason we need learn the best ways of teaching them > English. Is the only motivational tool we have as educators to help our > students learn English the fear tactics of English Only Laws. There must be > a better way to find a balanced approach. The legislation of fear, force, > and retaliation does not seem to be an American answer to this problem. > > Language is learned best in an environment where all students are wanted and > respected and in a classroom where students are as stress-free as possible. > We will not get a student to even attempt to learn our language by putting a > gun to their head. Trying to teach the foreign born student is much like > being a missionary to a foreign country. It takes loving patience. I had a > pastor once who was a missionary to Lebanon who said there were basically > two ways to motivate people: one is through fear, the other, love. So let > me ask you, If you were in foreign country, which one would you prefer the > government used to motivate you to learn their language? Would your strategy > help or hurt? > > Ken Taber > kentaber@inetgenesis.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ttweeton" <ttweeton@comcast.net> > To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:27 PM > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9402] Re: Accept English Only donation? > > > > Basically, would forcing someone (especially children) to learn English > (if > > they live in the states) really hurt them? > > > > I really become upset at the thought that some of us believe that it is > ok > > to live here and not have to or at least TRY to learn the language. I DO > > understand all the difficulties of foreigner, But I just can't understand > > why, timidly, we even ASK this question.? It should be taken for granted > > ,that people coming here, will make a concerted effort to do so. Yes of > > course it may be more difficult for some than for others. This is > > understood, it may take some more time than for others, but not even to > > TRY?? Why should this be thought of as acceptable?? Do we ask nothing of > > these people in return for the priviledge of being able to be here? NO, > > there is no free lunch for anybody . I just don't believe in the "no > holds > > barred, anything you want to do " theory. It should be A GIVEN that > > people will at least make the effort! That we even ask if it is OK, says > > something about how far the majority of the prevailing attitudes on this > > line seem to be leaning towards the left politically. Tanya > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tyler E. Johnson" <yakup2@ht.rol.cn.net> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:40 AM > > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9395] Re: Accept English Only donation? > > > > > > > "English-Only Laws anywhere in this country are a threat to Bilingual > > > Education everywhere!" > > > > > > Dear All, > > > Allow me to play the Devil's advocate for a moment and note that, > although > > I am > > > also disgusted by the U.S. educational system's > > > attitude toward the learning of languages- even proper English- think of > > this. > > > > > > Because the majority of the American population has never had real > contact > > with > > > other cultures (e.g. living in a foreign country), > > > most do not know how to deal with people who don't speak english. In > > Europe or > > > even here in China where they are accustomed > > > to people who don't speak a word of their language, and they perhaps > don't > > speak > > > a word of English, people know how to deal > > > with these situations. > > > On the flip side, your average Joe in the grocery store or at the DMV > > likely has > > > no idea how to piece together a conversation from > > > a less-than-fluent foreigner, or a very hard time doing so. > > > > > > Basically, would forcing someone (especially children) to learn English > > (if > > > they live in the states) really hurt them? > > > > > > In most other countries (especially Europe) I don't think this priciple > > would > > > apply. But in the good ol' U.S..... > > > > > > > >
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