Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h2IINbH15066; Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:23:37 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2003 13:23:37 -0500 (EST) Message-Id: <C50587E3B025D3118DDB00A0C9FC3C5E06216A21@EXCHANGE> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: Virginia Tardaewether <tarv@chemeketa.edu> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8825] RE: clarifying "murky waters" X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Status: O Content-Length: 3266 Lines: 89 I agree Joyce -----Original Message----- From: Michael Kaaland [mailto:kaaland4648@earthlink.net] Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 08:52 To: Multiple recipients of list Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8824] RE: clarifying "murky waters" I teach Asians. Asian people say you should always honor those who are older than you. Now that I am "older" I feel they have a point. Yet, I continue to honor every student with the sense that they have more to offer than they realize. Students learn much better in an atmosphere of honor, respect, and praise. Joyce Kaaland Virginia Tardaewether wrote: > Paul > Thanks for your comments. > Why is it that some ESL folks/staff feel that they know more than > their students? Va > > -----Original Message----- > From: Paul Rogers [mailto:englishtoday2002@yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, March 07, 2003 07:16 > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8782] clarifying "murky waters" > > Ujwala, > You said: "I am not criticising teachers, but we > cannot seriously believe that even our beginning > learners do not hold political opinions or are worried > about the state of the nation and their own survival?" > No-one has said anything to contradict this > assertion. But if a teacher can be unjustly fired and studnets can be > removed from classes unjustly, then the rights of teachers and > students must be the main issue, and the basis of the point that I > raised which you and others are avoiding. > You also need to explain how your ideal would be > realized in a class of 25 in which a teacher speaks > only English and the students do not know English. > You list a number of problems in ESOL, Ujwala. And > you appear to put administrators and teachers on the > same plane. > Well, if you are in a position to interview > teachers, I must assume that you are an administrator. > The issue I am raising begins with unjust policies > crafted by beaucratic administrators. > Paul Rogers > > > You have just proved my point. We have decided for > > our learners what they > > need to know, how much and what kind of knowledge > > they need. We also ask our > > learners to Come to learning, instead of bringing it > > to them. We do not have > > a national policy on ESOL levels, curriculum, nor > > teacher qualifications. We > > have no standards for testing either. We have vastly varying > > opinions on what kind of English needs to be taught. We work in > > muddy waters Mr. Rogers, > > that is what I was referring to. The interpretation > > of what kind of English, > > what aspects of knowledge need to be learned are > > left to either > > administrators or teachers. I have interviewed > > numerous teachers who had NO > > background in ESOL, much less adult education (a > > number were k-12 trained), > > who were thrown into an ESOL class and told, > > "Teach." I am not criticising > > teachers, but we cannot seriously believe that even > > our beginning learners > > do not hold political opinions or are worried about > > the state of the nation > > and their own survival? > > > > regards > > Ujwala Samant > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > http://taxes.yahoo.com/
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