Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id j7OK0xG14873; Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 16:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1CFF09B2.24A2E9EB.0006CB3C@netscape.net> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: tjjhjr@netscape.net To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11082] Re: Thank You and Continued Search for X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 X-Mailer: Atlas Mailer 2.0 Status: O Content-Length: 18500 Lines: 550 a big univ in MD......but CAL is going to kick me off the list.....what do u think of that????? "Mona Curtis" <MCurtis@tvcc.cc> wrote: >What's UMBC? > >Mona Curtis >ESL Coordinator >Treasure Valley Community College >650 College Blvd. >Ontario, OR 97914 >www.tvcc.cc >541-881-8822 x 316 >fax 541-881-2747 > >>>> tjjhjr@netscape.net 08/20/05 09:01AM >>> >This is what was done in Fredick , Maryland where the ESL staff >instructed us....under observation from UMBC...."you are here to help us >warehopuse them until they quit"...fortunately for those students the >Office of Civil Rights US DEPT of ED forced that district, whose program >had ties to UMBC, to sign a 12 point agreement which goes beyond this >email and gets to the heart of EQUITABLE EDUCATION .....AND BEYOND 54 >STUDENTS IN A ROOM, SEGREGATION BY LANGUAGE, COMPUTER USE FOR ALL >STUDENTS, NOT JUST 'AMERICANS', OPEN RECORDS, BOOKS AND MATERIAL, AND >MUCH MUCH MORE......TO PREACH ONE THING AND DO ANOTHER IS SAD > > > >Jodi Crandall <crandall@umbc.edu> wrote: > >>If I sent this previously, apologies, but I just found this in my >"drafts:: >>------ >>I have read the discussion on Caribbean students with interest, and >>though my experience is more with students from secondary settings, I > >>thought I'd provide what I learned in working for several years with >>these students and their teachers. >> >>This question is not new to ESL. �The issue of what to do with >students >>who come from countries in which English is an official >>language--usually those countries which were British colonies--is one > >>that is very timely in K-12 education in both the United States and >>Canada. �The situation is complex, but let me try to indicate some of > >>what those of us who have worked in this area have learned and how it > >>might apply to adult education. >> >>Students from these countries--if they are educated!--learn a variety >of >>standard English in their countries which is somewhat different from >>American English, but is nonetheless, intelligible to American >teachers >>and these students should be placed with English-speaking students. � >>They will have some differences in their English (pronunciation, some > >>vocabulary items, etc.) but these will not be substantial enough to >>prevent them from participating in mainstream classrooms. �However, >many >>of those coming from Caribbean countries where English is the >offiicial >>language and the language of education (countries such as Jamaica, >>Trinidad and Tobago, Belize, etc.) and from West African countries >like >>Liberia, Ghana, etc. have limited formal schooling, and thus, they >speak >>(and more importantly, write) a Creolized variety of English which >>contains features which are more reflective of the African languages >>that are part of those Creoles, than of the more Standard Englishes >that >>are spoken by educated people in their countries. >> >>The unfortunate part of this is that in places where there are few >>speakers of Caribbean (or West-African) Englishes with limited formal > >>schooling, these students will likely be placed with ESL students. � >>Neither the reading specialist nor the regular classroom (or English) > >>teacher (or in adult education, the ABE instructor) feels qualified to > >>teach someone whose English is so different from that spoken by other > >>English-speaking students. �However, the students DO speak English and > >>are thus, not surprisingly, quite insulted when they are viewed as >being >>non-native speakers. �Their problems are different from those of >>students from other language backgrounds; they are also different from > >>English-speaking adults with limited reading or writing skills. >> >>We can only expect this situation to grow in the US, since there are >now >>more than 60 countries in which English is an official language and >>children have some (often limited) opportunity to speak English, >though >>their education in that language may be limited. �Again, however, >those >>who have substantial education in whatever variety of English will not > >>have as much difficulty in U.S. educational contexts, since educated >(or >>standard) varieties of English around the world (which are based on >>written varieties) do not differ nearly as much as oral varieties. >> >>I've provided a website with an article I wrote about this for the >>ERIC/CLL News Bulletin, "The DO Speak English: World Englishes in U.S. > >>Schools" whicht discusses the issue and provides concrete suggestions > >>for appropriate instruction, especially for adolescents. �Some of the > >>guidelines include: >>--Fostering an atmosphere of respect for different varieties of >English >>--Building on the English varieties students bring to class >>--Focusing on developing written Standard American English >>--Being explicit about differences between students' Englishes and >>Standard American English >>--Being cautious in interpreting the results of standardized tests in > >>English >>--Developing special instructional programs for those with limited >>literacy or formal schooling >> >> >> >>http://www.cal.org/resources/news/2003summer/sum03newsfinal.pdf >> >> >> >>JUDITH SINCLAIR wrote: >> >>>Once again, we appreciate Ms. Chitester's comments, >>>and we most certainly welcome other responses to our original >request. >>> >>>Thank you. >>> >>>Dr. Judith Sinclair >>>Sinclair & Associates International, LLC >>>Main Office: Washington, DC >>> >>> >>> >>>----- Original Message ----- >>>From: "Deborah Jill Chitester MS CCC SLP" <djcslp@slllc.org> >>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:54 PM >>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11040] Re: Thank You and Continued Search for >Caribbean >>>Students Information >>> >>> >>> � >>> >>>>Further, students who self identify as English speaking may be not >>>>reliable >>>>and often are not. English literate CALP and English basic BICs are >very >>>>different. Self identification should be eliminated via a >standardized >>>>measure or some other informal instrument.The response was not a >review >>>>but >>>>consisted of guesses based on sketchy, incomplete info needed for a >valid >>>>comrpehensive response. I am sorry if this offends you which it >appears >>>>but >>>>I am an expert in this area and do these case analyses daily and >know what >>>>info needs to be supplied. if the info is not available, then the >>>>implication is more needs to be done on your end to exclude or >include >>>>various phenomena as accounting for various issues etc you note and >>>>observe.Thank you ....I feel somewhat uncomfortable by your response >and >>>>lord knows I am busy so for now I m signing off. Thanks >>>>****************************************************************** >>>>DEBORAH JILL CHITESTER M.S.,CCC/SLP >>>>Bilingual Speech-Language Pathologist >>>>Second Language, Literacy & Learning Connection, LLC >>>> �-Attaining Success for Second Language Learners- >>>>Web Site: www.SLLLC.org >>>>E-mail: djcslp@slllc.org >>>>732-398-1796(Tel/Fax), �732-642-5118 (cell) >>>>Confidentiality Notice: This transmission may contain information >that is >>>>privileged, >>>>confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If >you >>>>are >>>>not >>>>the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >disclosure, >>>>copying, >>>>distribution, or use of the information contained herein including >any >>>>reliance >>>>thereon is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission in > >>>>error, >>>>please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in >its >>>>entirety, >>>>whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. >>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>From: "Deborah J.C. MS CCC/SLP" <deb_bil_slp@yahoo.com> >>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:46 PM >>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11039] Re: Thank You and Continued Search for >Caribbean >>>>Students Information >>>> >>>> >>>> � � >>>> >>>>>I appreciate your response but much more info is needed to answer >you >>>>>properly-I know what you seek but info is missing. If someone can >answer >>>>>this �comprehensively with the info supplied, then I am doing >something >>>>>wrong. And I know this is not the case. Sorry again. Gotta run-got >some >>>>>publishing deadlines-look forward to seeing if I am missing >something. >>>>>****************************************************************** >>>>>DEBORAH JILL CHITESTER M.S.,CCC/SLP >>>>>Bilingual Speech-Language Pathologist >>>>>Second Language, Literacy & Learning Connection, LLC >>>>> �-Attaining Success for Second Language Learners- >>>>>Web Site: www.SLLLC.org >>>>>E-mail: djcslp@slllc.org >>>>>732-398-1796(Tel/Fax), �732-642-5118 (cell) >>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This transmission may contain information >that is >>>>>privileged, >>>>>confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. If >you >>>>>are >>>>>not >>>>>the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >disclosure, >>>>>copying, >>>>>distribution, or use of the information contained herein including >any >>>>>reliance >>>>>thereon is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission >in >>>>>error, >>>>>please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in >its >>>>>entirety, >>>>>whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. >>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>From: "JUDITH SINCLAIR" <j-p-sinclair@worldnet.att.net> >>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:17 PM >>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11038] Thank You and Continued Search for >Caribbean >>>>>Students Information >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> � � � >>>>> >>>>>>Our thanks to Deborah Jill Chitester MS CCC SLP for her excellent >review >>>>>>of >>>>>>our request. >>>>>>We welcome all responses, and look forward to hearing from our >>>>>>colleagues >>>>>>through NIFL-ESL. >>>>>> >>>>>>Dr. Judith Sinclair >>>>>>Sinclair & Associates International, LLC >>>>>>Main Office: Washington, DC >>>>>> >>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>From: "Deborah Jill Chitester MS CCC SLP" <djcslp@slllc.org> >>>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 5:06 PM >>>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11037] Re: PS to Search for support materials >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> � � � � >>>>>> >>>>>>>Much more info is needed to answer this question appropriately. >How >>>>>>>long >>>>>>>are >>>>>>>these Carribean students in the US? What is their level of >>>>>>>acculturation? >>>>>>>Very often people who are second language learners identify >themselves >>>>>>>as >>>>>>>English speaking for political purposes and due to such pressures >when >>>>>>>in >>>>>>>reality this is not the case. An ethnographic interview >detailing >>>>>>>language >>>>>>>background and use and level of acculturation is very important. >I am >>>>>>>currently putting together a comprehsive guide to how this should > >>>>>>>occur. >>>>>>>Until these answers are obtained, it is hard to answer re: >reading >>>>>>>comprehension..Second language acquisition and acculturation as >well as >>>>>>>eliminating lang problems as an etiology is critical. >>>>>>>****************************************************************** >>>>>>>DEBORAH JILL CHITESTER M.S.,CCC/SLP >>>>>>>Bilingual Speech-Language Pathologist >>>>>>>Second Language, Literacy & Learning Connection, LLC >>>>>>> �-Attaining Success for Second Language Learners- >>>>>>>Web Site: www.SLLLC.org >>>>>>>E-mail: djcslp@slllc.org >>>>>>>732-398-1796(Tel/Fax), �732-642-5118 (cell) >>>>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This transmission may contain information >that >>>>>>>is >>>>>>>privileged, >>>>>>>confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable law. >If you >>>>>>>are >>>>>>>not >>>>>>>the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >disclosure, >>>>>>>copying, >>>>>>>distribution, or use of the information contained herein >including any >>>>>>>reliance >>>>>>>thereon is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this transmission >in >>>>>>>error, >>>>>>>please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material in >its >>>>>>>entirety, >>>>>>>whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. >>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>From: "JUDITH SINCLAIR" <j-p-sinclair@worldnet.att.net> >>>>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 4:39 PM >>>>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11036] PS to Search for support materials >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> � � � � � >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Thanks to all of you who have taken time to read our message. >We have >>>>>>>>had >>>>>>>>several interesting responses, and a few good questions. �We >would >>>>>>>>like >>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>provide additional information to our request for information >>>>>>>>regarding >>>>>>>>Caribbean students' literacy progress in U. S. jobs and schools: >It is >>>>>>>>our >>>>>>>>experience working with Caribbean students that they consider >English >>>>>>>>as >>>>>>>>their first language. �The assure us that they are first and >foremost >>>>>>>>English speaking, and that they are �neither ESL or bilingual. >Yet, >>>>>>>>it >>>>>>>>is >>>>>>>>also our experience that many of these students face >significant >>>>>>>>challenges >>>>>>>>when they are presented with standard tests for professional and > >>>>>>>>school >>>>>>>>work. �We are looking for more information regarding Caribbean >>>>>>>>students >>>>>>>>who >>>>>>>>consider English as their first language, and their ability to >take >>>>>>>>professional and school tests. �For example, are they >compromised in >>>>>>>>reading >>>>>>>>comprehension tests? �Do they do well in their writing sample >tests? >>>>>>>>If >>>>>>>>so, >>>>>>>>why? �If not, why? �We are interested in a variety of >perspectives, >>>>>>>>and >>>>>>>>appreciate your response. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Thank you again. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Dr. Judith Sinclair >>>>>>>>Sinclair & Associates International, LLC >>>>>>>>Main Office: Washington, DC >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>From: "Deborah J.C. MS CCC/SLP" <deb_bil_slp@yahoo.com> >>>>>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 1:49 PM >>>>>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11035] Re: Search for support materials >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> � � � � � � >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>Please check my site and email me privately re: some pieces I >have >>>>>>>>>written. >>>>>>>>>****************************************************************** >>>>>>>>>DEBORAH JILL CHITESTER M.S.,CCC/SLP >>>>>>>>>Bilingual Speech-Language Pathologist >>>>>>>>>Second Language, Literacy & Learning Connection, LLC >>>>>>>>> �-Attaining Success for Second Language Learners- >>>>>>>>>Web Site: www.SLLLC.org >>>>>>>>>E-mail: djcslp@slllc.org >>>>>>>>>732-398-1796(Tel/Fax), �732-642-5118 (cell) >>>>>>>>>Confidentiality Notice: This transmission may contain >information >>>>>>>>>that >>>>>>>>>is >>>>>>>>>privileged, >>>>>>>>>confidential and/or exempt from disclosure under applicable >law. If >>>>>>>>>you >>>>>>>>>are >>>>>>>>>not >>>>>>>>>the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any >disclosure, >>>>>>>>>copying, >>>>>>>>>distribution, or use of the information contained herein >including >>>>>>>>>any >>>>>>>>>reliance >>>>>>>>>thereon is STRICTLY PROHIBITED. If you received this >transmission in >>>>>>>>>error, >>>>>>>>>please immediately contact the sender and destroy the material >in its >>>>>>>>>entirety, >>>>>>>>>whether in electronic or hard copy format. Thank you. >>>>>>>>>----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>>From: "JUDITH SINCLAIR" <j-p-sinclair@worldnet.att.net> >>>>>>>>>To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> >>>>>>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 1:33 PM >>>>>>>>>Subject: [NIFL-ESL:11034] Search for support materials >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> � � � � � � � >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Hello: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>As part of our work we look at various cultures that are >>>>>>>>>>relatively/new >>>>>>>>>>to >>>>>>>>>>America to determine how to best address their educational >needs. >>>>>>>>>>We >>>>>>>>>>are >>>>>>>>>>currently looking for materials, papers, personal narratives, > >>>>>>>>>>journal >>>>>>>>>>articles and the like that discuss challenges students from >the >>>>>>>>>>Caribbean >>>>>>>>>>islands face when they come to the United States to attend >school or >>>>>>>>>>obtain >>>>>>>>>>work. We are most interested in reading comprehension >problems, and >>>>>>>>>>Caribbean students' ability to successfully pass written >school and >>>>>>>>>>professional tests. �If anyone has information regarding this >topic, >>>>>>>>>>please >>>>>>>>>>let us know. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Thank you. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Dr. Judith Sinclair >>>>>>>>>>Sinclair & Associates International, LLC >>>>>>>>>>Main Office: Washington, DC >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> � � � � � � � � >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>___________________________________________________________ >>>>>>$0 Web Hosting with up to 200MB web space, 1000 MB Transfer >>>>>>10 Personalized POP and Web E-mail Accounts, and much more. >>>>>>Signup at www.doteasy.com >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> � � � � >>>>>> >>>>> � � � >>>>> >>>> � � >>>> >>> >>> >>> � >>> >> >>-- >>JoAnn (Jodi) Crandall >>Professor and Director >>Language, Literacy and Culture Ph.D. Program >>University of Maryland Baltimore County (UMBC) >>1000 Hilltop Circle >>Baltimore, MD 21250 >> >>tel: � �410-455-2313 >>fax: � �410-455-8947 >>email: �crandall@umbc.edu >>www.umbc.edu/llc >>www.umbc.edu/esol >> >> > >__________________________________________________________________ >Switch to Netscape Internet Service. >As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at >http://isp.netscape.com/register > >Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > >New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer >Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. >Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > __________________________________________________________________ Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Mon Oct 31 2005 - 09:49:18 EST