<DOC>
[110th Congress House Hearings]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access]
[DOCID: f:44911.wais]
CENSUS DATA: SPECIAL ISSUES RELATED TO U.S. TERRITORIES
=======================================================================
JOINT HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INFORMATION POLICY,
CENSUS, AND NATIONAL ARCHIVES
of the
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
and the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INSULAR AFFAIRS
of the
COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MAY 21, 2008
__________
Serial No. 110-84
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
__________
Serial No. 110-73
Committee on Natural Resources
__________
Printed for the use of the Committees on Oversight and Government
Reform and Natural Resources
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
HENRY A. WAXMAN, California, Chairman
EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York TOM DAVIS, Virginia
PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania DAN BURTON, Indiana
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut
ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland JOHN M. McHUGH, New York
DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio JOHN L. MICA, Florida
DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana
JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri CHRIS CANNON, Utah
DIANE E. WATSON, California JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee
STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio
BRIAN HIGGINS, New York DARRELL E. ISSA, California
JOHN A. YARMUTH, Kentucky KENNY MARCHANT, Texas
BRUCE L. BRALEY, Iowa LYNN A. WESTMORELAND, Georgia
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina
Columbia VIRGINIA FOXX, North Carolina
BETTY McCOLLUM, Minnesota BRIAN P. BILBRAY, California
JIM COOPER, Tennessee BILL SALI, Idaho
CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, Maryland JIM JORDAN, Ohio
PAUL W. HODES, New Hampshire
CHRISTOPHER S. MURPHY, Connecticut
JOHN P. SARBANES, Maryland
PETER WELCH, Vermont
Phil Schiliro, Chief of Staff
Phil Barnett, Staff Director
Earley Green, Chief Clerk
Lawrence Halloran, Minority Staff Director
Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census, and National Archives
WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri, Chairman
PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio
CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York CHRIS CANNON, Utah
JOHN A. YARMUTH, Kentucky BILL SALI, Idaho
PAUL W. HODES, New Hampshire
Tony Haywood, Staff Director
COMMITTEE ON NATURAL RESOURCES
NICK J. RAHALL, II, West Virginia, Chairman
DON YOUNG, Alaska, Ranking Republican Member
Dale E. Kildee, Michigan Jim Saxton, New Jersey
Eni F.H. Faleomavaega, American Elton Gallegly, California
Samoa John J. Duncan, Jr., Tennessee
Neil Abercrombie, Hawaii Wayne T. Gilchrest, Maryland
Solomon P. Ortiz, Texas Chris Cannon, Utah
Frank Pallone, Jr., New Jersey Thomas G. Tancredo, Colorado
Donna M. Christensen, Virgin Jeff Flake, Arizona
Islands Stevan Pearce, New Mexico
Grace F. Napolitano, California Henry E. Brown, Jr., South
Rush D. Holt, New Jersey Carolina
Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona Luis G. Fortuno, Puerto Rico
Madeleine Z. Bordallo, Guam Cathy McMorris Rodgers, Washington
Jim Costa, California Louie Gohmert, Texas
Dan Boren, Oklahoma Tom Cole, Oklahoma
John P. Sarbanes, Maryland Rob Bishop, Utah
George Miller, California Bill Shuster, Pennsylvania
Edward J. Markey, Massachusetts Bill Sali, Idaho
Peter A. DeFazio, Oregon Doug Lamborn, Colorado
Maurice D. Hinchey, New York Mary Fallin, Oklahoma
Patrick J. Kennedy, Rhode Island Adrian Smith, Nebraska
Ron Kind, Wisconsin Robert J. Wittman, Virginia
Lois Capps, California Steve Scalise, Louisiana
Jay Inslee, Washington
Mark Udall, Colorado
Joe Baca, California
Hilda L. Solis, California
Stephanie Herseth Sandlin, South
Dakota
Heath Shuler, North Carolina
James H. Zoia, Chief of Staff
Rick Healy, Chief Counsel
Christopher N. Fluhr, Republican Staff Director
Lisa Pittman, Republican Chief Counsel
------
SUBCOMMITTEE ON INSULAR AFFAIRS
DONNA M. CHRISTENSEN, Virgin Islands, Chairwoman
LUIS G. FORTUNO, Puerto Rico, Ranking Republican Member
Eni F.H. Faleomavaega, American Elton Gallegly, California
Samoa Jeff Flake, Arizona
Raul M. Grijalva, Arizona Don Young, Alaska, ex officio
Madeleine Z. Bordallo, Guam
Nick J. Rahall, II, West Virginia,
ex officio
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on May 21, 2008..................................... 1
Statement of:
Mesenbourg, Thomas, Acting Deputy Director, U.S. Bureau of
the Census; and Nikalao Pula, Director, Office of Insular
Affairs, U.S. Department of the Interior................... 70
Mesenbourg, Thomas....................................... 70
Pula, Nikalao............................................ 76
Mills, Frank L., Ph.D., director, Eastern Caribbean Center,
University of the Virgin Islands; and Francisco
Cimadevilla, vice president and editor in chief, Casiana
Communications, Inc........................................ 37
Cimadevilla, Francisco................................... 50
Mills, Frank L........................................... 37
Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by:
Bordallo, Hon. Madeleine A., a Delegate in Congress from
Guam, prepared statement of................................ 35
Christensen, Hon. Donna M., a Delegate in Congress from the
Virgin Islands:
Prepared statement of.................................... 18
Prepared statement of Mr. Tulafono....................... 9
Cimadevilla, Francisco, vice president and editor in chief,
Casiana Communications, Inc., prepared statement of........ 53
Clay, Hon. Wm. Lacy, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Missouri, prepared statement of................... 3
Faleomavaega, Hon. Eni F.H., a Delegate in Congress from
American Somoa, prepared statement of...................... 30
Fortuno, Hon. Luis G., a Resident Commissioner in Congress
from Puerto Rico:
Letter dated May 21, 2008................................ 22
Letter dated May 21, 2008................................ 85
Prepared statement of.................................... 25
Mesenbourg, Thomas, Acting Deputy Director, U.S. Bureau of
the Census, prepared statement of.......................... 72
Mills, Frank L., Ph.D., director, Eastern Caribbean Center,
University of the Virgin Islands, prepared statement of.... 40
Pula, Nikalao, Director, Office of Insular Affairs, U.S.
Department of the Interior, prepared statement of.......... 78
CENSUS DATA: SPECIAL ISSUES RELATED TO U.S. TERRITORIES
----------
WEDNESDAY, MAY 21, 2008
House of Representatives, Subcommittee on
Information Policy, Census, and National
Archives, Committee on Oversight and Government
Reform, joint with the Subcommittee on Insular
Affairs, Committee on Natural Resources,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittees met, pursuant to notice, at 10 a.m., in
room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Wm. Lacy Clay
(chairman of the Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census,
and National Archives) presiding.
Present from the Subcommittee on Information Policy,
Census, and National Archives: Representatives Clay and Turner.
Present from the Subcommittee on Insular Affairs:
Representatives Christensen, Serrano, Faleomavaega, Bordallo,
and Fortuno.
Also present: Representative Burton.
Staff present from the Subcommittee on Information Policy,
Census, and National Archives: Darryl Piggee, staff director/
counsel; Jean Gosa, clerk; Alissa Bonner and Michelle Mitchell,
professional staff members; Charisma Williams, staff assistant;
Leneal Scott, information systems manager; John Cuaderes,
minority senior investigator and policy advisor; and Benjamin
Chance and Chris Espinoza, minority professional staff members.
Staff present from the Subcommittee on Insular Affairs:
Tony Babauta, staff director; Brian Modeste, counsel; Allison
Cowan, clerk; and Rich Stanton, minority staff director.
Mr. Clay. The Information Policy, Census, and National
Archives Subcommittee will now come to order.
Good morning. Today's joint hearing is on the ``Census
Data: Special Issues Related to the U.S. Territories.''
I want to thank my colleagues on the Insular Affairs
Subcommittee, particularly Chairwoman Donna Christensen and
Ranking Member Luis Fortuno for agreeing to hold this joint
hearing.
Without objection, the Chair and ranking minority member
will have 5 minutes to make opening statements, followed by
opening statements not to exceed 3 minutes by any other Member
who seeks recognition.
Without objection, Members and witnesses may have 5
legislative days to submit a written statement or extraneous
materials for the record.
It is an honor to team up with my good friend, Chairwoman
Donna Christensen, on the Insular Affairs Subcommittee, for
this hearing. Today we will examine the significance of
creating an annual survey in partnership with the U.S. Census
Bureau and the governments of the Virgin Islands, Guam,
American Samoa, and the Northern Marianas.
It is important for Congress to understand the obstacles
presented in the insular area by the unavailability of current
population, economy, or labor force data. Unlike the States,
the District of Columbia, and Puerto Rico, these territories
are forced to depend on 10-year decennial and 5-year economic
census data to make critical policy decisions. Citizens within
the insular areas contribute economically, socially, and
militarily to our country. They rightfully deserve equal access
to annual, federally sanctioned data that is accurate and
meaningful.
Our expert witnesses are equipped with the knowledge and
experience to provide us with valuable insight on how this
oversight can be corrected. I thank all for appearing and look
forward to your testimony.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Wm. Lacy Clay follows:]
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Mr. Clay. I now recognize the ranking member, Mr. Turner,
of Ohio.
Mr. Turner. Thank you, Chairman Clay, for holding this
hearing on census data and its importance to the U.S.
territories. I would also like to welcome my friend, Ranking
Member Fortuno, to today's hearing. Today we will examine how
important census data is to public and private policymakers
when it comes to key decisions regarding the U.S. territories.
Mr. Chairman, there are many stakeholders interested in our
hearing today. The Federal Government alone gives billions of
dollars each year to State and local governments to spend on
various projects that are deemed important by policymakers.
However, States and local governments are not alone in
receiving this aid. Much of what the Federal Government spends
also goes to the nearly 4.5 million residents of the U.S.
territories of American Samoa, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands,
and Puerto Rico.
I want to thank Mr. Fortuno for his tenacity on this
important issue. Since we spend most of our time worrying about
how census counts and data affect the 50 States and various
local governments, we often overlook how the U.S. territories
are treated. He is a champion of the people of Puerto Rico with
valid arguments regarding why the territories need accurate and
up-to-date census data.
Besides Federal spending, private stakeholders use census
data to make policy decisions on economic and social issues
affecting the territories. I join with my colleagues in urging
the Census Bureau to use reasonable means to ensure the
residents of the U.S. territories are counted in a way that
helps decisionmakers at all levels of Government and the
private sector.
Mr. Chairman, I am anxious to hear what our witnesses have
to say and I look forward to this productive hearing. I yield
back the balance of my time.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Mr. Turner.
I now recognize Chairwoman Christensen.
Mrs. Christensen. Thank you, Chairman Clay. Let me begin by
extending my appreciation to you and the members of the
Subcommittee on Information Policy, Census, and National
Archives for agreeing to hold this hearing jointly with the
Subcommittee on Insular Affairs. I would have much preferred
that, as we had originally hoped, we would have had this
hearing in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands, but,
nevertheless, I am glad and I thank you again for helping us to
come today to gather testimony and get into a discussion about
the absence of data collection in the U.S. territories.
Mr. Chairman, given the distance and time zones that
separate Washington, DC, from our U.S. territories, I also want
to welcome those residents from the Virgin Islands, Puerto
Rico, American Samoa, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands
who have tuned in to listen to the broadcast of this hearing
via the Internet.
Today we will hear from witnesses from two of the five U.S.
territories. Each will offer their perspective on data
collection or lack thereof in the Virgin Islands and Puerto
Rico. It is my presumption that while there may be small
differences, treatment of the Virgin Islands is very similar to
her sister territories of Guam, American Samoa, and the
Northern Marianas. Puerto Rico, however, due in part to its
size and also an Executive order issued by the first President
George Bush, receives more State-like treatment.
At this time I will note that invited representatives from
the Pacific territories were unable to travel here to attend
this hearing, but have asked that their testimony be made a
part of the joint hearing record. So if there is no objection,
I would like to submit the testimony of Governor Togiola
Tulafono of American Samoa.
Mr. Clay. Without objection.
Mrs. Christensen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Tulafono follows:]
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Mrs. Christensen. Mr. Chairman, as both a delegate from the
U.S. Virgin Islands and chairman of the Subcommittee on Insular
Affairs, I often hear, and actually join in the chorus myself,
in the demand for equal treatment of fellow Americans not
residing in one of the 50 States of the Union, but residing
instead in a state of limbo. The examples run the gamut from
grants to treaties to voting for the next President, or even
voting on the floor of the House of Representatives.
In response to these demands for equal treatment, the work
of our subcommittee, much like yours, has to investigate the
problem and find the balance between what can be done versus
what needs to be done. We find, more often than not, a
willingness among honest brokers can find a path to its
fairness.
I look forward to our first panel of witnesses in assisting
our subcommittees to understand the problem of excluding our
U.S. territories in whole or in part from activities conducted
by the U.S. Census Bureau, looking at how this exclusion
affects local decisionmaking, how it impacts decisions at the
national level, how it affects funding of important programs
and services, and does it actually move our fellow Americans
living in the territories forward.
Our Federal witnesses have a more difficult task of
explaining why these areas are excluded, but we feel that we
can count on their open-mindedness and expertise to help us
move in a fairer direction, and we already started those
discussions.
Again, my deepest gratitude to you, Chairman Clay, for
agreeing to this hearing.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Donna M. Christensen
follows:]
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Mr. Clay. Thank you very much, Mrs. Christensen.
I now recognize Mr. Fortuno from Puerto Rico.
Mr. Fortuno. Let me begin by thanking Chairman Clay,
Chairwoman Christensen, and Ranking Member Turner for calling
this oversight hearing.
The issue we examine at today's hearing may seem like a
mere housekeeping problem. It is not. This disparate treatment
afforded the U.S. territories in the collection and reporting
of census data, and the consequent unavailability of current
and reliable information on the territories is not an extract
or technical issue. Rather, it is an issue with meaningful
consequences for the residents of these areas.
We need to determine whether our census practices have--as
I and many others suspect--made it more difficult for Americans
living in the territories to participate fully in the equal
opportunity society our Nation has always strived to achieve.
The primary question that Congress needs to ask and obtain a
clear answer to is whether social, political, and economic
growth in the territories is impeded because the territories
are treated differently in the collection and reporting of
census data and, as a result, are treated differently by the
various Government agencies that rely on this information to
provide services intended to benefit all Americans.
I do not want to prejudge the testimony of the experts on
the panel, but I am confident that today's hearing will confirm
that the disparate treatment of the U.S. territories has an
adverse impact on the ability of Federal and local government
agencies to provide services in the territories, as well as on
private sector-led development in the territories.
Common sense and experience suggests that this information
deficit has had and will continue to have a negative effect on
the provision of education and health care, capital investment
from the States and overseas, the vitality of the local
economy, employment, and income levels, and the overall
standard of living and quality of life of territorial
residents. If this is the case, Congress must be prepared to
act in order to redress this disparity.
As Mr. Cimadevilla and the other panelists will explain,
the situation facing Puerto Rico is not the same as the
situation facing the other territories. For instance, Puerto
Rico has been included in the American community survey since
2005, a clear, although belated step in that direction.
Nonetheless, in various ways Puerto Rico remains at a distinct
disadvantage, compared with the States, with respect to the
collection and reporting of demographic, social, and economic
data.
I would be remiss if the record did not reflect my belief
that no matter what measures Congress adopts to address the
particular problem discussed at this hearing, Puerto Rico will
remain at a perpetual disadvantage unless and until it
normalizes its political status. For the smaller territories,
there may be narrowly tailored solutions to the problems we
examine today. Not so with Puerto Rico. Puerto Rico's 4 million
U.S. citizens live under the U.S. flag, under U.S. sovereignty,
and under U.S. Federal law. The disparate treatment by the
Census Bureau, and, therefore, by those in the public and
private sector that utilize its data is an inevitable byproduct
of a much larger problem: the longstanding denial of equal
civil and political rights to the residents of Puerto Rico.
Puerto Rico's unresolved political status is primarily a
result of Congress's failure to fulfill its responsibility to
sponsor a fair and orderly self-determination process on the
island, one in which the people of Puerto Rico are able to
express their preference between permanent constitutionally
valid options. The only genuine solution to both the discrete
problem we examine today and the other problem of Puerto Rico's
political status is for the people of Puerto Rico to choose, in
a congressionally approved process, statehood or independence,
but in neither case to continue their condition as second-class
citizens of the greatest democracy on Earth.
It is my most fervent hope that the hard work of Chairwoman
Christensen on her subcommittee will come to fruition with the
passage of H.R. 900, the Puerto Rico Democracy Act of 2007,
which has been reported to the House by the full Committee on
Natural Resources.
I want to conclude my statement by noting that earlier this
morning I sent a letter to Speaker Pelosi, asking that she use
her leadership to bring H.R. 900 to a vote on the House floor.
I would ask that this letter be made part of the record of
today's proceedings.
Mr. Clay. Without objection.
[The information referred to follows:]
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Mr. Fortuno. In the coming weeks, I will deliver to Speaker
Pelosi thousands of petitions from the U.S. citizens of Puerto
Rico seeking her help to ensure that Congress, after more than
100 years, finally afford the people of Puerto Rico the right
to participate in a fully informed self-determination process.
I will tell you what I told Speaker Pelosi. If we can summon
the will and the courage to see it through, passage of H.R. 900
will be remembered as one of the greatest historical
accomplishments of this 110th Congress.
I want to thank my colleague and friend, Jose Serrano, for
his leadership on that part. It will end decades of
institutionalized disenfranchisement of 4 million Americans, so
many of whom have fought and bled and died for this great
country. We must not leave the hard work for another day or
another Congress. The time to act is now.
Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Luis G. Fortuno follows:]
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Mr. Clay. Thank you very much, Mr. Fortuno.
I would like to recognize my friend from American Samoa,
Mr. Faleomavaega, and welcome him to the joint committee.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Mr. Chairman, I do deeply appreciate the
initiative that you and our chairman of our Insular Affairs
Subcommittee have taken this morning to conduct this oversight
hearing, and I certainly want to thank also my good friend, Mr.
Turner, whom I have had the privilege of meeting with our
members of Parliament from Germany just last week and, in doing
so, sharing some common issues with the European Union
countries. I want to thank also our distinguished chairlady,
Mrs. Christensen, and our ranking member, Mr. Fortuno, for
bringing this to the forefront.
I want to associate myself with all the comments that have
been made by Mr. Fortuno and our chairwoman, Mrs. Christensen,
in bringing this concern to our colleagues and to the public.
We have over 5 million fellow Americans who live out there in
insular areas, and if you want to look at an equivalent, that
is population of four to five States of our country, and I
think we need to understand this.
I want to share with you, Mr. Chairman, the statement that
always seems to ring in my mind every time we talk about the
issues of the needs of our insular areas, and this was stated
by a former Member of this institution and a retired brigadier
general from the territory of Guam, my good friend former
Congressman Ben Blaz. He said this: ``We are equal in war, but
not in peace.''
So sons and daughters coming from these insular areas who
bleed and die in the defense of our Nation, and somewhere along
the line every time there are questions--and I realize that not
all the provisions of the Constitution apply to fellow
Americans living in these insular areas, kind of like a
selective basis--sometimes Federal laws, when they come out, we
are constantly trying to fill in the holes, the cracks, and
saying that maybe insular areas ought to be considered on the
same basis for the simple reason these are fellow Americans. We
live and we bleed and we die just like our other fellow
Americans living, just as my good friend Mr. Fortuno has stated
in his eloquent statement.
So I cannot thank you enough. I think this hearing was long
over due, and I look forward to hearing from our friends
downtown concerning this issue and see what we need to do by
way of legislation or changing policy so that Insular Affairs
could be given better treatment by the Census Bureau and other
agencies that deal with collecting data and information for the
needs of these territories.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Eni F.H. Faleomavaega
follows:]
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Mr. Clay. Thank you so much for your opening statement.
Let me also ask the committee, without objection, to
include our good friend, Mr. Serrano, from New York, who has a
very keen interest in the territories, and I recognize Mr.
Serrano for 5 minutes for an opening statement.
Mr. Serrano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I want
to thank the leadership of both committees for allowing me to
sit with you today. This is an issue, as you and I have
discussed on many occasions, of great importance to me.
Since becoming chairman of the Appropriations Financial
Services Subcommittee, I have joined my colleagues in trying to
bring fairness to the territories. It is for that reason that
the territories were included in the tax rebate program,
because we felt that all the territories should be treated
equally.
I was also, as chairman, able to get legislation for
something that I think is very important. Some may laugh at it
when they find out, but it is including the territories in the
quarters programs. The program was going to end this year,
having a quarter issued for every State. It is expanded for
another year so that the territories can get a quarter, which
is being designed right now as we speak.
Last, Mr. Chairman, during my time as ranking member on the
Commerce Justice State Committee, I worked with the Census
Bureau to try to increase the involvement of the Census Bureau
in the territories, and I am proud to say that work led to the
fact that, in the case of Puerto Rico and other territories,
the Census Bureau is doing more than it had been doing in the
past.
But there is still something that is gravely missing, and
that is the following. Many scholars, when I speak to them,
bring up the fact that the Constitution speaks that the people
of the States should be counted. Well, when the Constitution
was written, it did not anticipate territories with citizens,
and it certainly did not anticipate territories for 110 years
with citizens. Territories, as Mr. Fortuno has stated, were set
up in those days to transition folks into statehood, not to
keep them for that long a time.
So as far as I am concerned, fairness dictates that the
territories be treated equally. I leave you with this thought--
and I want to preface my comments by saying that I am one of
the leaders on the House floor on behalf of the rights of
undocumented aliens. But just think of this. An undocumented
alien who lives in New York gets counted as part of the 300
million folks who live in this country, but the 4 million
citizens who live in Puerto Rico don't get counted as far as
the national population. So when we say, for instance, that we
have 35 million, for argument's sake, Hispanics in the Nation,
not true; we have about 39 to 40 million, except that the
territories are not counted. When we say we have roughly 300
million Americans, not true; we have 304.5 million.
So part of what I would like to see is not only the surveys
that move to bring fairness to the territories in terms of the
proper information, but also that everybody under the American
flag gets counted as part of the American family. And I thank
you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much for your statement.
Last but not least, I would like to recognize my friend
from Guam, Ms. Bordallo, if you have an opening statement.
Ms. Bordallo. First, I want to thank you very much, Mr.
Chairman, and you, Chairwoman Christensen, for convening this
joint oversight hearing today to examine the issues affecting
the fulfillment of the mission of the Bureau of Census with
regard to the territories. I certainly agree with much that has
been said by my colleague, Mr. Serrano, this morning.
This is a very important subject because the work and the
products of the Census Bureau are routinely relied upon by
decisionmakers in both the public and the private sectors to
make informed decisions about finances, organization of
resources, and employment, among other matters.
The Census Bureau performs a critical role in the
functioning of our society today, and its work in partnering
with the territories to collect and disseminate data deserves
to be strengthened. We know the Census Bureau has a long
history and that, since its inception, it has adapted to meet
the needs and the challenges of a growing country and responded
to emerging demands for information about demographic and
socioeconomic trends in population.
The territories must not--and I repeat that--must not be
left behind as the Census Bureau prepares the decennial census
required by our Constitution and its development of other
special surveys. The territories present unique challenges,
including multicultural and multilingual populations, as well
as geographic disbursement of our populations, in some cases
among several islands. Furthermore, there is a serious void in
historical data for the territories, as we looked at it today.
So this makes sound public policy decisionmaking very
difficult and sometimes results in disparities in treatment of
Americans residing in the territories, as compared with
Americans residing in the 50 States under certain Federal
programs. So I look forward today to the testimony, and I am
most interested in learning how the Census Bureau plans to
address the important issues that the Governors and the
committees have raised.
Further, I hope that Chairwoman Christensen will keep the
record open for written responses to some concerns and other
Members may wish to make regarding the work of the Office of
Insular Affairs to conduct the enumeration of citizens of the
freely associated States who reside in Guam, the Commonwealth
of the Northern Marianas Islands, the State of Hawaii, and
American Samoa. I know that this enumeration is not the main
focus of today's hearing, but it is nonetheless a relevant and
timely issue, and I would appreciate the opportunity to receive
responses for the record.
So, again, I thank you, Chairman Clay and Chairwoman
Christensen, for holding this hearing and for your work on this
issue of great national significance.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Madeleine A. Bordallo
follows:]
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Mr. Clay. Thank you very much for the opening statement.
If there are no more opening statements, we will now
proceed with testimony from the witnesses. I want to start by
introducing our first panel.
We will hear first from Dr. Frank Mills, director of the
Eastern Caribbean Center at the University of the Virgin
Islands. Dr. Mills serves as the Virgin Islands contact for the
Federal-State Cooperative Program for Population Estimates, an
information cooperation between the Federal Government and the
States in the area of local population estimates. Dr. Mills
also serves as director of the Virgin Islands Census Data
Center. As director of the Data Center, Dr. Mills works closely
with the U.S. Census Bureau in preparation of the content of
census questionnaires. Dr. Mills has also served as Operations
Supervisor and Manager for Census. Thank you for appearing
before the subcommittee today.
Our final witness on the first panel is Mr. Francisco
Cimadevilla, vice president and editor in chief of Casiana
Communications, Inc. Prior to becoming VP and editor in 2004,
Mr. Cimadevilla served as editor of Caribbean Business, the
leading business newspaper in Puerto Rico and the Caribbean,
published by Casiana Communications, Inc. Mr. Cimadevilla has
held several key roles that have given him insight on
economics, including Assistant Secretary of State for Caribbean
Basin Affairs at the Department of State in San Juan, Puerto
Rico; as Chief Officer for Economic Development Policy at the
Department of Economic Development and Commerce; and as Deputy
Secretary of that Department.
It is the policy of the Oversight and Government Reform
Committee to swear in all witnesses before they testify. I
would like to ask all witnesses to please stand and raise your
right hands.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Clay. Thank you. You may be seated.
Let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the
affirmative.
I ask that each witness now give a brief summary of their
testimony and to keep their summary under 5 minutes in
duration. Your complete written statement will be included in
the hearing record.
Dr. Frank Mills, we will begin with you. Welcome to the
committee.
STATEMENTS OF FRANK L. MILLS, PH.D., DIRECTOR, EASTERN
CARIBBEAN CENTER, UNIVERSITY OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS; AND
FRANCISCO CIMADEVILLA, VICE PRESIDENT AND EDITOR IN CHIEF,
CASIANA COMMUNICATIONS, INC.
STATEMENT OF FRANK L. MILLS
Mr. Mills. Good morning, Mr. Chairman and Madam Chairwoman
and members of the subcommittees. My name is Frank Mills and I
am professor of social sciences at the University of the Virgin
Islands and director of the Eastern Caribbean Center, a social
research unit of the University responsible for conducting the
decennial census for the U.S. Virgin Islands. I appreciate the
opportunity to appear before you today.
I have spent the last 29 years of my professional career
working on census related activities. I therefore ask
permission to include the full written statement into the
hearing record.
The principal method the U.S. Government uses to distribute
a wide variety of assistance to States and local governments
depends in very large measure on data derived from the
decennial census. This system makes sense for all of the
obvious reasons. Doing it any other way would likely be
disproportionate, unfair, and inadvertently discriminatory.
This very workable reliance on accurately gathered data is
applied to every one of the 50 States and to Puerto Rico. It is
not applied to the island areas.
As a citizen, resident, and principal demographic
researcher in the U.S. Virgin Islands, I can testify that, by
applying a whole different approach to us alone, we are
deprived access to all kinds of Federal assistance. This
includes full use of Medicaid, programs to assist children and
families such as child poverty, and support programs for the No
Child Left Behind Act. With annual data, we would be able to
assess local needs such as where new roads, schools, and senior
citizen centers should be located.
National organizations and foundations also use the ACS to
determine funding. For example, a recent health initiative by a
major national foundation overlooked the USVI because our
numbers were not in the American community survey on which they
based their grant decisions. We are not only among the poorest
communities in the Nation, with approximately 30 percent of the
population living below the poverty level, but are also denied
the tools on which to accurately assess our need and justify
the assistance our people greatly need. Many of these issues
could be resolved if the Virgin Islands were included in the
American community survey.
I was delighted to note, when reading the Acting Deputy
Director Mesenbourg's prepared statement, that he agrees these
problems could be largely resolved by including the Virgin
Islands in the ACS. He does note, however, that the Census
Bureau appears to lack the funds to implement the extension of
the ACS to the Virgin Islands. But we would have heard this
many times before. It is difficult to know for certain how to
break this barrier, but agencies are well known for finding the
money for projects they want to accomplish and having a
difficult time finding the money for projects to which they
give a low priority.
Or is the way to deal with this for Congress to direct the
agency to do what Mr. Mesenbourg says would be good policy? If
necessary, perhaps Congress should undertake to determine
whether the Census Bureau needs additional funding to do this.
Out of simple fairness to the people of the Virgin Islands,
enabling them to access funding that all other Americans can
access would seem to be the only honest and fair thing to do.
I also note that the Acting Deputy Director has outlined in
his written testimony the general procedure for the conduct of
the decennial census in the Virgin Islands. However, there are
some specific suggestions that I wish to submit that I strongly
believe can improve or minimize the disparities in the 2010
census process between the States and the USVI. We suggest
that: one, advertising plans allow more local input to maximize
our knowledge of the territory; two, that the current
technology combined with recent digital aerial photography be
utilized to remedy the difficulties associated with map-
spotting households; three, that data coding be carried out by
locals; and, four, that 2010 census products include a
publication of cross-tabulation of the more relevant
demographics, social, and economic housing data.
Finally, I want to address a common misconception. Contrary
to the perception that a mass address list does not exist for
the Virgin Islands, we would point to the fact that during the
decennial census an a 100 percent address list developed.
Simply put, the Virgin Islands will compile an address list.
In summary, the USVI seeks statutory language requiring the
Census Bureau to include the USVI in the American community
survey in 2011.
Mr. Chairman, Madam Chairman, thank you for conducting this
important hearing. We are encouraged, indeed, by this
initiative. I am prepared to answer any questions that you may
have.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Mills follows:]
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Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Dr. Mills.
Mr. Cimadevilla, you have 5 minutes.
STATEMENT OF FRANCISCO CIMADEVILLA
Mr. Cimadevilla. Good morning, Mr. Chairman Clay, Madam
Chairwoman Christensen, distinguished members of both
subcommittees. Thank you very much for the opportunity to
appear before you during this joint hearing to examine the
disparate treatment of the U.S. territories by the Census
Bureau and the unavailability of current or reliable data of
these areas.
My name is Francisco Cimadevilla. I am vice president and
editor-in-chief of Casiana Communications, the largest Hispanic
owned publisher of magazines and periodicals in the United
States, headquartered in San Juan, Puerto Rico, and editor-in-
chief of its flagship weekly newspaper, Caribbean Business, the
largest circulation business publication in Puerto Rico and the
Caribbean.
My comments this morning will focus on the subject matter
as it pertains to Puerto Rico only, and will not address or
refer to other U.S. territories or outlying areas.
The first census conducted in the United States in 1790,
just a year after the inauguration of our first president and
shortly before the end of the second session of the 1st
Congress convened of the republic. Those historical facts
evidence the importance our founding fathers attributed to the
census process as an indispensable tool to make sound decisions
regarding the future of the Nation.
Under the general direction of Thomas Jefferson, then
Secretary of State, marshals the census not only in the
original 13 States, but also in the districts of Kentucky,
Maine, and Vermont, and the southwest territory of today's
Tennessee.
When results came in, both Washington and Jefferson
expressed skepticism over the final count, expecting a number
that far exceeded the 3.9 million inhabitants returned by the
census.
Curiously, 210 years later, the most recent census
conducted in the land counted 3.9 million inhabitants in the
territory of Puerto Rico alone, the same number reported by the
first census for the entire U.S. population.
The concerns that probably motivated Washington and
Jefferson's skepticism--that is, quality, reliability, and,
most importantly, completeness of the data collected by the
census in order to make decisions about the future of the
Nation--are the same concerns that I respectfully bring to your
attention today in relation to the specific case of Puerto
Rico.
So I thank you, Mr. Chairman and Madam Chairwoman for your
leadership in addressing this important issue in this hearing.
Collection of reliable data, its thorough analysis, and the
appropriate and timely dissemination of accurate reports based
on those data are essential to responsible decisionmaking not
only by elected and appointed government officials, but by the
private sector as well.
As you well know, census data are critical to fair
representation of the population in this House of
Representatives, but it is also important for the fair
distribution of Federal funds among all entitled U.S. citizens,
the adequate planning of capital improvement projects, and many
other Federal Governmental functions. But, further, accurate
census data are equally essential to economic development
efforts of State governments, including those of the
territories, as well as sound business decisions by the private
sector throughout the country, including Puerto Rico.
Puerto Rico is not new to the census. The U.S. War
Department conducted a census in the territory in 1899, just a
few months after Spain ceded the island to the United States as
a result of the Spanish-American War.
Starting in 1910, the U.S. Census Bureau has been
conducting decennial census of population and housing in Puerto
Rico. From 1960 to 1990, Puerto Rico used the decennial census
questionnaire that was different from the one used in the
States, presumably to address Puerto Rico's unique needs.
But as Puerto Rico became more integrated to the national
economy over time, the local government realized that equality,
standardization, and integration with national census data were
more important for all the U.S. citizens residing in Puerto
Rico than unique needs.
In 1997, thus, the government of Puerto Rico requested the
Census Bureau that the same decennial questionnaire content
used stateside be used in Puerto Rico.
Thus, census 2000 was the first time the Census Bureau and
Puerto Rico really experienced the benefits of standardization.
There is no question that standardization has been
beneficial to both the U.S. census and Puerto Rico. For the
2000 decennial census, for example, the Census Bureau released
the census data products of Puerto Rico at the same time as in
the States, avoiding lateness by making the census statistics
available at an early stage for the community of data users
when comparable with previous decennial censuses where the
census standard products of Puerto Rico were released much
later than in the 50 States.
Still, there are areas with respect to the decennial census
in which Puerto Rico is at a disadvantage compared with the 50
States in relation to demographic, social, and economic data.
Perhaps the most vexing problem regarding the accurate
reporting of census data pertaining to Puerto Rico is the utter
lack of consistency in their inclusion in national totals.
In its Decision Memorandum No. 64 of 1999, the Census
Bureau stated that Puerto Rico would be shown in all census
2000 national summary tables of population and housing
characteristics, but not included in the national totals ``for
reasons of statistical consistency with other government
agencies such as the Bureau of Labor Statistics.'' Frankly,
that rationalization sort of begs the question before this
committee.
Furthermore, with the data collected through the decennial
census and other surveys, the Bureau prepares multiple reports
through the Special Tabulation Program. Many times these
reports are financed by other Federal agencies and many times
they just decide not to include Puerto Rico.
As we understand it, the format and whether or not data
totals include the territories or not seems to depend on the
whim of the question sponsor or data requester.
One of Puerto Rico's big frustrations is that many end
products do not include the island with the States, even when
the data have been collected and there appears to be no
rational analytical basis for the discrepancy. Excluding Puerto
Rico, or any jurisdiction for that matter, makes for both bad
policy and bad business decisions, since such exclusion
undermines the ability to ascertain risks and benefits, and
thus make rational judgments.
At a minimum, it would be desirable if, for every Census
Bureau table covering the States, Congress required that the
end product included a grand total for all States, the District
of Columbia, and the insular areas, and perhaps also subtotals
for, one, all the States; two, the District of Columbia; and,
three, all insular or outlying areas, with a breakdown by area.
This would allow both Congress and the Executive to enact
policy on the basis of the grand total, while keeping a tally
of the numbers for the States alone for any legitimate reason
for which such subtotals should be used.
Mr. Chairman, Madam Chairwoman, in the interest of time, I
will bring my testimony this morning to a quick conclusion and
call your attention to the full length written testimony I have
submitted to the committee staff, which I ask respectfully be
made part of the record of this hearing. In it, I address
issues and concerns regarding the disparate treatment of Puerto
Rico by the Census Bureau in its other data collection and
reporting activities beyond the decennial census, such as the
current population survey, from which Puerto Rico is excluded,
the American community survey, Current Employment Statistics,
and the all-important economic census.
Finally, let me just say that our concerns are not limited
to the Census Bureau data collection and reporting only, but
extend to other areas of Federal data collection and reporting.
For example, reports published by the Centers for Medicare and
Medicaid routinely exclude Puerto Rico. Excluding Puerto Rico
from these reports is like excluding Maine, New Hampshire, and
Vermont, since Puerto Rico has more Medicare recipients than
those three States combined.
Being excluded from the U.S. census reports and any other
disparate treatment of Puerto Rico as compared with the States
means that the U.S. citizens of Puerto Rico are often not
considered when proposals are presented, policies analyzed, and
legislation approved. Therefore, I respectfully urge you to
take appropriate legislative action so that the Census Bureau
and other Federal agencies take the appropriate measures to
include the same data and analysis for Puerto Rico as they do
for the 50 States so that when Congress makes a decision
regarding the future of the Nation, Puerto Rico is taken into
consideration on an equal basis.
U.S. citizens living in the U.S. territory of Puerto Rico,
whether island-born or born stateside, deserve nothing less
than equal treatment. Washington and Jefferson, Mr. Chairman,
would have expected nothing less from any of us. Thank you very
much.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Cimadevilla follows:]
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Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Mr. Cimadevilla, for your
testimony, and Dr. Mills, for such informative testimony.
We will now move to the question period from Members and
proceed under the 5-minute rule.
We will start with Dr. Mills. You have traveled quite a
distance to be here today and I want you to know that the
subcommittee appreciates your being here to discuss this
important issue. We know that data collected and published by
the U.S. Census Bureau is used by many decisionmakers. Could
you tell the subcommittee about the specific data requests that
you are not able to fill because you do not have current data
from the Census Bureau?
Mr. Mills. If I may couch the response in terms of the many
programs which do not benefit from Federal funding because the
data that are available in the Virgin Islands are too little
data or they just don't exist. My testimony included some
specifics, as in the case of a large initiative from which we
were recently excluded, because we were not included as part of
the ACS.
In general, the worst aspect of all of this is as time
proceeds from the decennial itself, the funding allocation to
the Islands remain fixed at the 2000 census, so that 5, 10, 9
years later, the Virgin Islands is still receiving funding
based on population figures that may be up to 10 years old.
Mr. Clay. That is the greatest challenge, really, that you
don't have up to date and current figures.
Mr. Mills. That is correct.
Mr. Clay. In your testimony you speak of the impact of
resource allocation to the Virgin Islands. In your professional
opinion, how much money in Federal funding do you believe the
Virgin Islands have forfeited due to a lack of an annual
verifiable survey conducted by the Bureau?
Mr. Mills. Mr. Chairman, it is rather difficult to suggest
a figure, but I would suggest there are two ways of looking at
this. First of all, as I have indicated, there are those
programs which do not get funding based on current data. But
also there are many areas in which, for example, the Islands do
not derive benefit simply because there are that many programs
which don't even know that the Virgin Islands is part of the
Federal system and, as a result, we never know what that figure
is. So it is rather difficult to suggest an overall figure, but
we know it is enormous.
Mr. Clay. How much does it cost for the University to
conduct a Virgin Islands community survey?
Mr. Mills. Right now, the local government contributes
about $100,000 annually. The University itself does not include
the cost of the time of its workers, which could easily be
another $50,000. So just in terms of personnel cost alone, we
are talking just about $150,000 to do that on an annual basis.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much for that answer.
Mr. Cimadevilla, thank you for being with us today, as
well, and for your testimony. The examples you provided help to
illuminate many of the points that have been made here today.
Can you tell the subcommittee a little more about how your
industry uses census data and about the impact of late or
inaccurate data on decisionmaking?
Mr. Cimadevilla. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that
question. In the specific case of Caribbean Business, being a
business publication, I should say that a vast constituency in
Puerto Rico relies on the ability of business press to put
forth the kinds of economic data and information they need in
order to make their decisions. They, unlike academics or
researchers, business people do not necessarily have access or
don't look for access of data of this sort, so they rely on
what, for example, publications like Caribbean Business publish
in terms of what are the latest in the economy and so on.
Let me just add that there is another constituency that is
being underserved by having less than equal data collection and
reporting by the census, and that is the U.S. business
community as a whole. I can tell you, from our point of view,
we report on this all the time. When people--businesses,
business leaders, boards of directors--are looking for a new
location, for example, for their business, they have to conduct
market research. If the data are not available with respect to
a particular area to be able to be compared to other areas they
may be considering, that area is at a disadvantage in terms of
its potential for economic development. So, therefore, in the
case of Puerto Rico, not having up-to-date information at par
with that is available for the other States puts Puerto Rico at
a disadvantage in its effort to promote economic development.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much for your answer.
I recognize my friend from Puerto Rico, Mr. Fortuno, for 5
minutes.
Mr. Fortuno. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to thank the panelists for making the trip over
here. I find both presentations intriguing and, actually, they
add to the record as to the point we want to make.
Mr. Cimadevilla, in your testimony you talked about the
current population survey [CPS]. What kind of information does
the CPS collect exactly and why is it important to include the
territories for the decisionmaking process that you were
talking about?
Mr. Cimadevilla. The current population survey is a monthly
survey of 50,000 households that is conducted by the Bureau of
the Census for the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The survey has
been conducted for more than 50 years. Its primary source of
information are the labor force characteristics of the U.S.
population. Estimates obtained from the current population
survey include employment, unemployment, earnings, hours of
work, other indicators. They are available in a variety of
demographic characteristics, including age, sex, race, marital
status, so on, so forth.
So the CPA's data are used by government policymakers and
legislatures as important indicators of the Nation's economic
situation and for planning and evaluation of many government
programs. And, of course, they are used by the press, students,
business leaders, etc.
Mr. Fortuno. You also mentioned current employment
statistics and the fact that the territories are excluded. What
kind of employment statistics, then, would Puerto Rico have?
And, if I may, I would like to ask Mr. Mills the same question
to understand what is the disparity here.
Mr. Cimadevilla. Well, current employment statistics are
collected in Puerto Rico, but the national CES employment
estimates exclude the workers from Puerto Rico. So BLS
cooperates with the Puerto Rico Department of Labor to collect
the data and publish employment estimates independent of
national estimates.
Mr. Fortuno. Mr. Mills, the USVI?
Mr. Mills. This is an issue that goes back as far as 1980
that I can recall having a discussion with the Director of
Labor Statistics in the Virgin Islands, and that was the need
to have more precise data than were actually collected at the
time and still are collected. The data on employment derived
largely from administrative records. But like the CPS, our
Virgin Islands community survey is able to reach a group that
administrative records is not able to reach, and I refer
specifically to the disgruntled workers who never go to
government agencies or undocumented workers who don't ever go
to any kind of government agency. Hence, the unemployment data
that are collected by the Bureau of Labor Statistics reflect
accurately on what the unemployment situation is and there is
only a sense of that deriving, then, from the Virgin Islands
community survey, which is not supported by the Federal
Government in any way at all.
Mr. Fortuno. Thank you, Mr. Mills.
Just to make sure, Mr. Cimadevilla--and that is my last
question--you have a specific suggestion that there be a grand
total for all States in terms of the Census Bureau tables and
that we break it down by territories and the District of
Columbia. Do you see, from your perspective--and I will ask the
question to the next panelists--the reason why that cannot be
done today?
Mr. Cimadevilla. I wouldn't be able to answer that. I don't
know.
Mr. Fortuno. Thank you.
Thank you and I yield back.
Mrs. Christensen [presiding]. Thank you, Mr. Fortuno.
And thank you, panelists, Dr. Mills and Mr. Cimadevilla.
Thank you for your thoughtful and very comprehensive
testimony--I did have a chance to read it--and for your
specific recommendations.
Mr. Mills, I just have to make this comment, because you
said in your testimony that OIA's stopping the collection of
data in the middle of your collection was a statistician's
worst nightmare, but it really sounds like the whole history of
the territories dealing with data is a nightmare. In our cases,
first BLS rejects the request for inclusion in current
population survey, then census stops publishing intercensal
data; OIA changes the kind of data we should collect and later
stops funding this. And then, to add to that, we are told we
can't have ACS because we have no address system, which is not
a fact.
When you do the VI community survey, are you saying that
even though it is done, there is no way to get it included into
the national census data?
Mr. Mills. That is correct. The Census Bureau does not
officially recognize locally collected data such as VICS.
Unless they collect it themselves, by which they are able to
verify all the methodologies that are associated with ACAS and
CPS and all those, they are not accorded any sort of validity.
Mrs. Christensen. OK, so, some discussions are beginning,
and it will probably come up in the next panel, that maybe
census would pay for it, and I guess that might have it
included, or your recommendation is that we be included in the
American community survey.
Mr. Mills. Yes.
Mrs. Christensen. Mr. Cimadevilla, if you want to respond
to this as well.
We would lose some of our flexibility in designing our
form, but we would be included, as I understand it, then, in
this data set that everyone looks at. Do you have any concerns
about losing that flexibility if we went to the ACS, as you
recommend?
Mr. Mills. Madam Chair, the Virgin Islands used the same
census long form that stateside used up until 1980. In 1990 and
2000, two or three questions relating specifically to the
Virgin Islands were included. If the choice is between being
included in ACS and retaining our unique questions, obviously,
the Virgin Islands would want to opt for the inclusion of ACS
because the advantages clearly outweigh the disadvantage of
having two questions unique to the Virgin Islands.
Mrs. Christensen. So, Mr. Cimadevilla, in 1997 you went to
ACS.
Mr. Cimadevilla. Yes.
Mrs. Christensen. Did you lose anything in the process?
Mr. Cimadevilla. I don't believe so. As a matter of fact,
for the census 2000, in order to retain the possibility of
Puerto Rico-specific data, the government of Puerto Rico
entered into a Memorandum of Agreement with the Census Bureau
establishing for any expansion programs, such as supplementary
questionnaires and/or special tabulations, requested by the
government of Puerto Rico would be evaluated and paid for by
the government of Puerto Rico. So we have retained the
possibility of collecting Puerto Rico-specific data so long as
we are willing to pay for it, of course.
Mrs. Christensen. Dr. Mills, I have two Virgin Islands
questions. One, you might recall that after the 2000 census the
Concerned Virgin Islander group had some concerns about being
able to identify themselves as Concerned Virgin Islanders. I
know you reached out to them. You probably haven't heard much
back from them. But can that be addressed in the current census
coming up?
Mr. Mills. Madam Chair, I don't think that it might be
possible at this point in time, since the content questionnaire
has already been fully established and I think has already been
submitted. So it would be too late for inclusion in the 2010
census questionnaire.
Mrs. Christensen. But my understanding is that you did
inquire prior to the form being finalized?
Mr. Mills. Yes. My office did attempt to find that out,
yes, Madam Chair.
Mrs. Christensen. And just one last one, and another local
question from our Hispanic community. There were some concerns
also that the Hispanic community may have been under-counted in
the Virgin Islands. On their behalf, I would like to know what
is being done to reduce the under-count, if you agree that one
occurred, and ensure that this population is accurately
counted. Are you planning to include Latinos among the persons
hired for the 2010 census staff, as well as persons who are
fluent in Spanish? And do you plan on having the questionnaires
in both languages?
Mr. Mills. Thank you for the question, Madam Chair. I would
like to do full justice to that question, but I will try to
summarize it, and I will introduce it by saying if in fact we
did have an ACS in the Virgin Islands, we would have a good
sense of how the ethnic makeup of the Islands is changing.
Having the decennial census once in 10 years does not allow the
Census Bureau to determine ahead of time what that makeup is,
and that is largely perhaps what may have contributed to less
than full appreciation of the existence of Hispanics in the
Virgin Islands population.
At the risk of appearing defensive, we did not have any
evidence that there was an under-count of the Hispanic
population in 2000. However, in preparation for 2010, the
Census Bureau has already determined that it will issue
questionnaires in Spanish. We have, additionally, invited a
Hispanic to be on the Census Interagency Committee, which now
exists, and, in fact, we will make every effort to also include
representatives from St. Croix to be on that panel. The
difficulty there, of course, is that there is no common funding
source to bring Hispanics from St. Croix to St. Thomas when the
Interagency Committee meets. But there is every indication that
we will make additional efforts to include not only Hispanics
in a more expansive way in the 2010 census, by having Spanish-
speaking interviewers--and we did in 2000--but we will
certainly put more concentrated effort there to ensure not only
the inclusion of Hispanics in a solid way, but any other
language besides English.
Mrs. Christensen. Thank you, Mr. Mills.
The Chair now recognizes Mr. Faleomavaega for his
questions.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Thank you, Madam Chair. Just a couple of
questions.
My understanding, in layman's terms, is I think the Census
Bureau currently conducts about three or four major surveys
that kind of make up the whole system. Here we have the current
population survey--is it an acronym, is that how you say it? I
am still learning how to speak English here, CPS, and then
there is a survey of income and program participation [SIPP],
and there is the American community survey [ACS], and then the
mid-decade survey. Am I right? How many other surveys besides
these three or four fundamental surveys are you aware of?
Mr. Mills. The Agriculture census, which was mentioned.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Oh, Agriculture. OK.
Mr. Mills. And the business economic census.
Mr. Faleomavaega. OK, my next question is I am just going
to do my own survey with both Puerto Rico and the Virgin
Islands. Do you have CPS?
Mr. Mills. No, sir.
Mr. Cimadevilla. No.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Good. I have a negative here. Do you have
SIPP?
Mr. Cimadevilla. We do.
Mr. Mills. Once in 10 years.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Once in 10 years? OK. Do you have ACS?
Mr. Cimadevilla. No.
Mr. Mills. No.
Mr. Faleomavaega. OK, good. Do you have mid-decade survey?
Mr. Mills. No, sir.
Mr. Faleomavaega. OK, good. Puerto Rico does?
Mr. Cimadevilla. Mid-decade survey? Are you referring to
the economic census?
Mr. Faleomavaega. According to my survey, American Samoa
has none of these. So I think I made 100 percent check on this
thing.
A lot of times I think I noticed, too, that maybe the
substance of the Federal law, where the Secretary of Commerce
is given discretionary authority, and that discretionary
authority many times just simply wipes us out, simply because
we can't justify it because this threshold sometimes I hear so
much about, if you don't have a population level of 100,000 or
something like that, forget it, they are not going to do
anything with you. Do you think that is fair?
Mr. Cimadevilla. Obviously not. I don't think that is fair.
Congressman, if I could enlarge a little bit on your line
of questions. Let me suggest for the committee to examine
beyond just whether a particular survey is being conducted in a
particular territory. I think you ought to also focus on the
accuracy and the timeliness of the reporting. For example, in
Puerto Rico, the Census Bureau does conduct economic census,
but regularly reports on those series come out at least a year
after they come out with respect to the 50 States, which is
difficult to understand since it is a much smaller population.
Not only that, there are issues about the accuracy, for
example. When I say a year after, bear in mind the 2002
economic series, the manufacturing report with respect to
Puerto Rico came out 34 months after the data were collected.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Well, I don't mean to interrupt you, but
the bottom line is that you are just not getting the services.
I mean, that is in layman's terms. I am just being very basic
about this. Four point 4 million U.S. citizens living in Puerto
Rico, and in many instances in my home of Butre, they are like
a foreign country. And by being in that, as far as any sense of
priority or any sense of importance to these 4.4 million
Americans--and we have to look at Puerto Rico in a different
category because the rest of us in the insular areas are much
smaller in terms of population. So totally understandable.
Puerto Rico, if it would become a State tomorrow, it would have
seven Members of Congress and two Senators. That is equivalent
to four or five populations of States. So I just want to get
this on the record. The bottom line is that we are constantly
being put between the cracks, and either anybody pays any
attention, the bottom line is I don't think--and our good
friend from the Census Bureau is going to testify later. I am
sure it is not out of their hearts that they hate us, but it is
just simply the Federal law being inconsistent, so it comes
right back to the Congress, really, in my humble opinion.
Mr. Cimadevilla. Let me add that it is not just the
citizens resident in Puerto Rico that are disadvantaged. The
American business community is at disadvantage when reliable
and timely economic data out of the territories are not
available to them to make decisions.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Let me just make this observation, Madam
Chair. I think my time is just about over. My little territory
is about 70,000 people, and 16 of my soldiers died in that
terrible war that we caused in Iraq. Now, I don't know about my
other fellow sister territories in terms of the casualties per
capita, but I think we contribute pretty high amount of the
blood that is spilled on behalf of our Nation; and let alone
about 30 or 40 are wounded. I just had to go to Walter Reed
Hospital about 2 weeks ago; one of my soldiers seriously
wounded from IED.
These are the types of things that sometimes it saddens me
that on one instance--and I go back to my good friend General
Blaz's statement. ``We are equal in war, but not in peace.''
And I think we need to remedy this, Madam Chair.
Thank you so much, and I thank both gentlemen for their
testimony.
Mrs. Christensen. Thank you, Mr. Faleomavaega.
The Chair now recognizes Chairman Serrano for his
questions.
Mr. Serrano. Thank you so much. I couldn't help but think,
as I heard my friend from American Samoa speak, how some of the
inconsistency of the whole relationship--which is not what we
are discussing today, but, nevertheless, inconsistent. Just
think, if you were born in Mayaguez and stay in Mayaguez, you
have certain rights. If you move to the Bronx, you can run and
be a Member of Congress. So it just doesn't make sense at
times.
You know, both of you spoke about the lack of data playing
a role in being able, obviously, to deliver services. Is that
for all services or do services that come directly from the
Federal Government get better treatment? I will explain. Both
parties--and I say this with respect--in Congress, both parties
go out of their way to say that we support the troops more than
the other party. Yet, I wonder if the Veterans Administration
has the same information on the territories than it has in the
50 States, and how that would affect the services that are
provided. Do you have any thoughts on that?
Mr. Mills. If I may, sir. I can remember specifically 2
years ago there was an effort to establish a monument to
soldiers who had died in St. Croix, and my office was tasked
with getting that information, and we sought the assistance of
all the Federal agencies, including the armed forces, that we
knew were supposed to have that information, and we came up
with so little that the effort could not go forward. That is a
bit disgraceful.
Mr. Serrano. It is.
Mr. Cimadevilla.
Mr. Cimadevilla. In my testimony I made reference to the
case of Medicare and Medicaid. Those reports that are published
by the Centers of Medicare and Medicaid routinely exclude
Puerto Rico. I don't know if it is a crick in the neck
situation, but does the present unequal treatment to Puerto
Rico with respect to Medicare reimbursements, for example, is
it a reflection that Congress is less aware about the needs of
a Medicare population there that, as I mentioned in the
testimony, adds up to more than those of Maine, New Hampshire,
and Vermont combined? Notwithstanding the leadership or
Congressman Fortuno on this effort, and I know you are familiar
with it too, the push from Puerto Rico to get equal treatment
in Medicare I think is a reflection of that problem.
Mr. Serrano. Let me ask you a question, and the way I want
to ask you the question is do you agree with me or not. And
feel free to disagree with me; it is not a problem. I get
angry, I cry, but it is not a major problem. [Laughter.]
When the Constitution was written, it said to count the
people amongst the States. As I said before, it never
envisioned territories being held a long time, but it certainly
never envisioned citizenship or American nationals, as in
Samoa, living in these territories. So my question is if you
were asked to interpret that Constitution now--since the
Constitution is a living and evolving document--wouldn't you
agree with me that Constitution does not stop the territories
from having their population included in the general population
of the 50 States? Of the Nation, if you will.
Mr. Mills. I would go back, and have gone back, to Title
13, as Title 13 spells that it is possible for the Department
of Commerce to get involved and to conduct censuses and surveys
in small local areas, government areas. It does not exclude any
of the small island governments. And yet the Secretary of
Commerce does not see fit to extend any of these services to
the Islands except the decennial census.
Mr. Cimadevilla. Ultimately, Congressman, it may be a
semantic problem between counting and counting in. Is the
constitutional mandate to count the people in the States or
count them in? It appears that in many respects the citizens of
the territories are being counted but not necessarily counted
in.
Mr. Serrano. I would agree. Just in conclusion, my argument
has always been--and I will reiterate it for the third time
today--that if you decided years ago to give out American
citizenship in territories, then you can't have a subtotal, and
that is what we have now. Our great victory in the last few
years--and I thank the Census Bureau. I have a great
relationship with the Census Bureau. In fact, my dear friend,
Tom Mesenbourg, is here today and we will hear from him later,
and I appreciate his presence here. But this whole idea, you
talk about differing kinds of citizenship. We have always
complained about second class, third class, whatever. Well,
think of the fact that you have a total of people who live in
the United States, again, as I said, including people who are
not citizens and people who are not here documented. Then you
have another number sort of as a second total, but never really
part of the family. That makes no sense mathematically and, as
you have stated, creates other issues. My belief is that if you
are living under the American flag, if you are covered by the
American Constitution, if you are a citizen or a national, you
should be counted in the total number. I thank you.
Thank you, Chairwoman.
Mrs. Christensen. Thank you.
I know that Dr. Mills has to leave. I just had one last
question before I dismiss the panel.
You mentioned the kids count survey, which has been very
important in the territory in recent years. Could you just give
us a short minute on the importance of the survey and how the
current situation of only the 10 year population on household
survey impacts that?
Mr. Mills. Kids count survey or databook, as we call it, is
designed to be part of the national Kids Count idea, supported
largely by the Annie E. Casey Foundation. But the Foundation
does not provide enough funding to collect the kinds of data
that are necessary to produce these indices. So Kids Count,
therefore, uses all VICS data to base some of these indices.
But as I said previously, unless these kinds of data have the
imprimatur of the Census Bureau, they are not treated with the
degree of validity that Kids Count would say that they require
to have it as part of the national design. So, in that sense,
the Virgin Islands data are not a part of that wider system
and, as a result, we don't get the understanding of the well-
being of our children in the same way that those from Kentucky
or any other States, for that matter, would have.
Mrs. Christensen. The ACS would fix that?
Mr. Mills. Absolutely would.
Mrs. Christensen. OK, thank you.
If there are no further questions, I would like to thank
the panel for their testimony. It has been very helpful. The
committee may have further questions, which we would submit to
you in writing and ask that you respond in turn.
Mr. Mills. I would be glad to respond.
Mr. Cimadevilla. Thank you very much.
Mrs. Christensen. Thank you very much.
We will now hear from the witnesses on our second panel.
Our first witness will be Mr. Thomas Mesenbourg, Acting
Director of the U.S. Bureau of the Census. The Deputy Director
is the Census Bureau's Chief Operating Officer overseeing the
day-to-day operations of the Government's preeminent
statistical agency. Mr. Mesenbourg has served as Associate
Director for Economic Programs, a post he has held since August
2005. In that position, he was responsible for the economic
census, the census of governments, and more than 100 monthly,
quarterly, and annual surveys. Mr. Mesenbourg has worked at the
Census Bureau since 1972.
Our second witness will be Mr. Nikalao Pula, Director of
the Office of Insular Affairs of the Department of the
Interior. Mr. Pula is the first Pacific islander of Samoan
ancestry ever to serve as the Director. As the OIA Director and
Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary, Mr. Pula advises the
Secretary on operational and administrative matters involving
Federal policy in the insular areas. The office of Insular
Affairs is the executive branch's liaison organization with
four of the five principal U.S. insular areas--American Samoa,
Guam, the Commonwealth of the Northern Marianas, and the U.S.
Virgin Islands--and the three freely associated States. Mr.
Pula joined the Department of the Interior in 1993.
It is the policy of the Oversight and Government Reform
Committee to swear in all witnesses before they testify. I
realize that you stood the first time, but we are just going to
go through it again, in keeping with the wishes of the chair.
So would you please rise?
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mrs. Christensen. Let the record reflect that the witnesses
have answered in the affirmative.
You may be seated. I ask that each witness now give a brief
summary of their testimony and keep the summary within 5
minutes, please. Your complete written statement has been
submitted and will be included in the hearing record.
Mr. Mesenbourg.
STATEMENTS OF THOMAS MESENBOURG, ACTING DEPUTY DIRECTOR, U.S.
BUREAU OF THE CENSUS; AND NIKALAO PULA, DIRECTOR, OFFICE OF
INSULAR AFFAIRS, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR
STATEMENT OF THOMAS MESENBOURG
Mr. Mesenbourg. Thank you. Madam Chairwoman, distinguished
subcommittee members, thank you for the opportunity to discuss
the Census Bureau's programs in the U.S. territories.
There are two major programs that the Census Bureau
conducts on a regular basis in the territories: the economic
census and the decennial census. The economic census is
conducted every 5 years, collecting data for years ending in 2
and 7, and covers the U.S. Virgin Islands, the Commonwealth of
the Northern Mariana Islands, Guam, and American Samoa, and
Puerto Rico. The economic census in these areas are very
similar to the stateside economic census.
The decennial census is conducted every 10 years. Much of
the content for each island is very similar. However, there are
accommodations made depending on the needs of each government.
For the Pacific areas--that is, American Samoa, Guam, and
CNMI--the content is negotiated so that one set of questions
will be asked in all three areas. The content for the U.S.
Virgin Islands is developed specifically to meet that
government's needs.
For the 2010 census in the island areas, each housing unit
will be personally visited by an enumerator. In addition, the
housing unit's address will be listed and its location will be
identified on a census map, allowing the Census Bureau to
establish an address register for each island.
Well, when considering whether or not to conduct new
surveys, it is important first to determine what type of data
are needed, how those data are going to be used, and for what
purposes. We also would consider frequency, data availability
and reliability, and the capability of being able to publish
data that meets our confidentiality standards. These are just a
few of the considerations we take into account when determining
the design and content of new collections.
For data collections between censuses, we use statistical
samples to reduce both the reporting burden and to lower cost.
Most of our business surveys are mailed out-mailed back. Many
household surveys, however, are conducted by telephone or by
enumerator. That, of course, is considerably more expensive
than a mail out-mail back survey.
Well, what could we do more frequently? We may be able to
expand at a relatively modest cost the county business patterns
report to include the island areas. This expansion would
provide annual data on payroll, number of employees, and the
number of establishments or business locations by economic
sector in each of the islands. A more expensive option would be
to conduct an annual economic survey of each of the island
areas. These would be a unified survey similar to the economic
census, but with scaled back content to control costs and
improve timeliness.
On the household side, beginning after the 2010 census, a
variation of the American community survey might be considered.
The methodology employed would be to repeat the 2010 census
methods, but only for a sample of the population, not a full
enumeration. One challenge with this approach is developing and
maintaining the address frame needed to select a sample in each
of the islands. Another challenge, of course, would be building
a field infrastructure, including finding office space, hiring
employees, and so forth.
These are some initial thoughts about what we would need to
do to provide more current information on the island areas. We
would be happy to work with the Congress, other Federal
agencies, and the island area governments to better understand
their data needs and to explore ways that we could provide
assistance. More detailed discussions are required before we
can really develop actual detailed plans and cost estimates.
This concludes my remarks, and I would be happy to take any
questions. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Mesenbourg follows:]
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Mr. Clay [presiding]. Thank you so much, Mr. Mesenbourg.
Mr. Pula, you may proceed.
STATEMENT OF NIKALAO PULA
Mr. Pula. Mr. Chairman, Madam Chair, and members of the
subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on the
important issue of lack of current and complete information on
population, labor force, and economic and social
characteristics in the U.S. territories of American Samoa,
Guam, U.S. Virgin Islands, and the CNMI.
The Office of Insular Affairs is often asked for statistics
on the U.S. territories, but often the information is either
dated or does not exist.
Knowing the value of current information, the Federal
Government continuously generates a wide array of information.
Best known of the Federal Government agencies that generate
information: the Bureau of Labor Statistics in the Department
of Labor and the Bureau of Census in the Department of
Commerce, and also the Bureau of Economic Analysis, also in the
Department of Commerce.
Unfortunately, the four U.S. territories OIA works with are
not included in some of the most useful work these agencies do.
This was recently highlighted in the U.S. Department of Labor
Report on the impact of minimum wage increases in American
Samoa and CNMI. Labor noted many holes in current data that
prevented the Department from making a full determination of
the impact of an increased minimum wage. Specifically, the
Department of Labor noted ``The Bureau of Labor Statistics does
not collect monthly or other period data describing labor
market conditions in either American Samoa or the CNMI.''
Another important source of current data according to the
report is the monthly survey of households conducted jointly by
the BLS and Bureau of Census in their current population survey
[CPS]. The report notes ``Both surveys have been important
sources of data for research regarding the impact of minimum
wage increases in the United States over the past 50 years. The
lack of such data for American Samoa and CNMI significantly
impairs efforts to measure or to project the impacts of
scheduled minimum wage increases for these territories.''
Apart from conducting decennial census, the Bureau of the
Census conducts other surveys. One of the best known and most
useful is the American community survey, which is designed to
see how those communities are changing. The ACS will replace
the decennial long form in the future censuses and is a
critical element in the Census Bureau's re-engineered 2010
census. The four territories we work with are not included in
the ACS.
The four territories are also not included in the BEA
system of national income and product accounts, which generates
complete information on total national output. According to
information on the BEA Web site, territories are not treated as
domestic output but, rather, as belonging to the rest of the
world. As a result of this dearth of information, policy
decisions often lack the level of data and analysis that
underpin decisions in many other areas of the United States.
An additional problem with the lack of territorial
involvement in these data gathering activities is the resulting
inability of local statistics offices and staffs to draw on the
knowledge and skill pools found in statistics national
community. Working with highly trained professionals could
prove advantageous to the territories and territorial statistic
staffs.
Over the last decade, OIA has given over $5 million to the
Bureau of the census and the territories in technical
assistance grants to fill some of the information gaps. This
technical assistance, however, has been insufficient to bring
the territories to national standards.
Current and complete information is essential for good
decisionmaking, whether in business, government, or households.
For this reason, we believe that there is a significant need to
flexibly work with the territories to integrate them into the
national data gathering framework. We stand ready to work with
the territories and agencies responsible for data collection to
find alternative ways to gather necessary information.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Pula follows:]
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Mr. Clay. Thank you both so much for your testimony. We
will begin the 5-minute questioning.
Let me start with Mr. Mesenbourg. I want to congratulate
you, first, on your recent promotion to Acting Deputy Director
of the Bureau, and I look forward to working with you to ensure
a complete and accurate decennial census, and on other
censuses, including surveys that address the specific data
needs of the insular areas.
You stated in your testimony the work on the economic and
decennial censuses of the island areas are collaborative
efforts between the Census Bureau and the local governments.
What should be the first step toward the development of annual
surveys that are tailored to the needs of each island area?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think the first
order of business is to ensure that the Census Bureau is clear
on what the data needs are for the island area. We need to be
clear in terms of what data they want to collect, how those
data are going to be used, and for what purposes they are going
to serve. Then more detailed discussions would be involved at
what level of detail do you want to be able to publish the
information. If it is a household survey, do we need below
island level detail, do we need it for towns or election
districts, or whatever the appropriate unit is. For business
surveys it would be a similar process. In my written testimony
I had suggested that I thought the most cost-effective way to
provide annual economic data was to take an approach similar to
the economic census, and that way I think we would be much more
assured that it was meeting the needs of the local area.
So I think really a meeting and a clear understanding of
what the requirements are is the first step.
Mr. Clay. Wonderful. And who would be the best person for
the governments of the island area to contact and how soon can
conversations begin?
Mr. Mesenbourg. OK, in terms of household surveys, we are
working with all of the island areas on implementing the 2010
decennial census, and what we are suggesting is to leverage the
work that we are going to do in 2010 specifically in developing
a master address file in each of the islands and then, after we
have done that, work with the areas to developing a process for
maintaining and updating that address file so we can then do
annual surveys. So the basic approach is do 2010 and then think
of an annual household survey after that.
Mr. Clay. Any idea of how much money Congress needs to
appropriate to create annual surveys with content specifically
tailored to meet the data needs of each island area?
Mr. Mesenbourg. I don't have a cost estimate right now.
Some will depend on the level of detail. I can tell you that
for the economic census--and this also includes Puerto Rico--
over a 5-year period we are spending about $9 million on that
data collection. Now, what is not included in that number are
things such as postage and data capture, because we cover those
costs as part of the entire stateside economic census too. We
would want to work with the island governments to make sure
that we have their data needs, and then we would develop a cost
estimate. I believe we would have a bit of time to do that if
we are talking, on the household side, post-2011 in terms of
implementing. But we could certainly get you a cost estimate
well before then.
Mr. Clay. Thank you for your response.
Mr. Mesenbourg. On the business it would just depend
exactly what they would like. Our plan is not to collect the
same level of detail as we collect in the economic census,
because if we do we are going to face some of the same
timeliness problems that you heard about earlier.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much for that response.
Mr. Pula, with the Office of Insular Affairs, being the
authority on policy affecting the insular areas, it is
reasonable to assume that you get a lot of requests for data
regarding the insular areas. Can you tell us approximately how
many requests you get and the type of data that is most
commonly requested, and how many of the requests are from
government agencies?
Mr. Pula. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We usually get requests
from all seven jurisdictions, the four U.S. territories who we
deal with and also the three freely associated States and all
governments. We do not have earmarked money for all these
requested censuses, but every year, because we want to help out
with the different surveys, in the last several years we have
worked closely with the Office of International Program Center
at the Census Bureau and we provide some money to them when the
requests from the islands come to us to do some of these
surveys. We have been averaging, I would say, the last 5 years
between $500,000 and $700,000, close to $900,000 money from our
limited technical assistance pot to help the islands do some of
these surveys with the help of the Census Bureau.
Mr. Clay. Thank you for that response.
Right now I will go to Mr. Fortuno for 5 minutes.
Mr. Fortuno. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to thank the
panelists again for their insightful testimony this morning.
First, if I may, I would like to begin by commending
Director Mesenbourg for your 36 years of service at the Bureau.
All of us realize that the hard work you do at the Bureau is
very important; otherwise, we would not be here today seeking
to understand and to improve, certainly, how the Bureau
collects and reports data on the U.S. territories. I have
several questions that I would like to pose to you regarding
Puerto Rico in particular, and the other expert on the panel
should feel free to add anything, Mr. Pula.
First, I would like to hear, Director Mesenbourg, your take
on Mr. Cimadevilla's argument, which I find, I will say, quite
compelling, that for every Census Bureau table covering the
States, Congress should require that the final product include
a grand total for all States, the District of Columbia, and the
territories, and perhaps also subtotals for all States, D.C.,
and the territories, with a breakdown by area. As Mr.
Cimadevilla testified, this would enable the Federal Government
to make policy on the basis of the grand total, while also
keeping a tally of the numbers for States alone for use for any
purposes.
Actually, if I may, Mr. Chairman, I would like to include
in the record a letter that I received today from AARP
supporting, actually, an idea somewhat similar to this, if I
may.
Mr. Clay. Without objection, it will be part of the record.
Mr. Fortuno. Thank you.
[The information referred to follows:]
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Mr. Fortuno. Do you see any good reason why Congress cannot
or should not require this approach be adopted? And is there
anything preventing OMB or the Census Bureau from adopting this
policy in the absence of legislation expressly requiring it to
do so?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Thank you. I will answer that. First, let
me answer from the perspective of economic statistics. As you
all are probably aware, we collect detailed statistics on all
primary economic sectors, so we have monthly and annual surveys
of retail trade, wholesale trade, manufacturing, services.
Something that people may not understand, our current surveys
are designed to provide national level estimates for the United
States, so they exclude Puerto Rico and they exclude the U.S.
territories. But that is done because it significantly--let me
just clarify what that means, actually. So when we select the
sample and we go to a firm that has locations scattered across
the United States, say a large discount department store you
might think of, we do not collect data for each location in our
current surveys. Rather, they report a national level estimate
of retail sales that includes all of their operations in the
States.
So we do not publish any detailed State level, county
level, or whatever in our current economic statistics programs,
with the exception of the County Business Patterns Program.
That program is a bi-product of our business Register. So we do
have businesses that operate in Puerto Rico, and the island
areas are included in our business Register, and we tabulate
that information and publish that annually. And Puerto Rico is
covered annually in the County Business Patterns Program. It is
not included in the U.S. total, but the data are separately
available.
So this would be a huge undertaking and I think an
extremely expensive undertaking to redesign all of our current
surveys, and that is really the impetus that I suggested a
unified survey like the economic census be targeted to each of
the island areas. That way I think it would better meet their
needs and we would be able to implement such a program.
So just to be clear on the question, we do not have State
level data for almost all of our current economic surveys, so
this would be a huge undertaking, that suggestion.
Mr. Fortuno. By the same token, a lot of data that is
collected at the national level excludes the island
territories, including Puerto Rico, even when we are talking
about population, and, actually, Mr. Faleomavaega was talking
about military service. Puerto Rico has the second highest rate
of military service in the country, and we do that with pride
and courage and valor. Certainly, no one is thinking about
whether it will take a lot of effort for us to actually serve
at such a high level for freedom and democracy as we do
throughout the world.
So do you have any specific thoughts as to how we can, in
the most efficient way, include fully those territories?
Certainly, I am interested in Puerto Rico, which is the
largest, but certainly all the territories in this process.
Mr. Mesenbourg. Well, I don't have specific proposals
related to including it in the U.S. total. I do have ideas how
we could provide current information on the island areas, and
that would be to implement annual economic surveys in each of
those island areas and publish that data annually. Post-2010,
to implement an ACS-like survey in each of the islands. I am
certainly not a constitutional scholar, so I am not going to
offer any opinions related to including the territories in the
total at this point.
Mr. Fortuno. Thank you.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Mr. Fortuno.
Now Chairwoman Christensen, you are recognized for 5
minutes.
Mrs. Christensen. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Thank you, Mr. Mesenbourg and Mr. Pula.
Mr. Pula, representing the Department that has oversight
for the territories, is it the position of the Department of
the Interior that the United States has a responsibility to
further the social, economic, and political development of the
territories that Labor and Census and all of those departments
that conduct surveys ought to include the territories?
Mr. Pula. Well, since the Department of the Interior is
part of the administration, as well as our folks from Labor and
Census, we speak with the same language. Your question is
whether the territories should be included in the information
of statistic data----
Mrs. Christensen. The ACS, the CES, the CPS, all of that
information that is so important to the rest of the United
States, should it not also be compiled for the territories?
Mr. Pula. OK, let me answer it this way. Because of the
requests that come from these jurisdiction areas on an annual
basis, from the Governors writing and asking us for
information, it is pretty apparent to us, our office at OAA and
the Department of the Interior, that they have a need. One of
the things that we have done is to try to create the capacity--
and like I mentioned earlier, we worked with the Census Bureau
to have a program where the folks from the island, the
Statistics Office can come on an annual basis and some of the
Census Bureau national information. So just to answer your
question simply, yes, to the extent that this information is
needed in the areas.
Mrs. Christensen. It is needed. I think we could probably
establish that it is needed.
Mr. Mesenbourg, I have heard that some of the surveys may
be a variation on what is done in the States or cut back or
ACS-like survey. If it is not exactly what is done in the
United States, is it going to be included when all that data is
published? And I am also seeming to hear that the national data
is just the 50 States and the territories should be separate. I
don't understand that.
Mr. Mesenbourg. Let me talk first of the ACS. What we were
proposing and I used the term ACS-like to provide flexibility
to the territories related to the content. It probably would be
quite similar to the stateside ACS survey, but there may be
special needs that need to be addressed, and that is the reason
I used ACS-like in that.
Mrs. Christensen. I am concerned that the delays that Dr.
Mills talks about, when it is not the exact same thing. If we
are willing to give up a little flexibility to get our data
published in a timely manner and be there with everybody else,
when everyone is looking at this data for programs, for
funding, for whatever, can we----
Mr. Mesenbourg. OK, I will answer that. If the Census
Bureau conducts this ACS survey in the island areas, it will be
official Census Bureau statistics and we will stand 100 percent
behind the statistics. I think it is a different issue whether
the island totals should be included in the U.S. total or
should be provided separately and people have the capability of
adding it into the total. And that is not an issue I have a
view on at this point.
Mrs. Christensen. OK. You did say you are recommending
discussions go forward and those kinds of issues can be decided
in those issues.
Mr. Pula, could you explain why OIA canceled the collection
of the data back a few years ago?
Mr. Pula. Basically, we did not----
Mrs. Christensen. In the middle of the collection of the
data.
Mr. Pula. Of the data for the survey in the Virgin Islands
you mean?
Mrs. Christensen. Yes.
Mr. Pula. It was a matter of priority in terms of the money
that we were spending for the surveys in each of the areas. I
do not think we canceled it. We have negotiated with the Census
Bureau, the Office of International Program Center, through an
MOU or reimbursable agreement, and some of these surveys they
were doing we had to kind of wait and see where they are in the
other areas because they only have limited people that go to
the areas. So we did not cancel it, we just had to postpone it.
Mrs. Christensen. My last question, Mr. Mesenbourg, in the
States you do sampling. In the Virgin Islands, and I assume the
other territories, you have to do 100 percent. Is there any
possibility that we could also do sampling instead of doing 100
percent?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Ms. Chairwoman, I certainly do believe
there are possibilities. The reason we cannot use sampling in
the 2010 census, for example, is because we haven't updated and
maintained the address file in between the two censuses. As
part of doing the 2010, we will establish an address file for
each of the island areas, and that is what we are suggesting.
Working with the islands, we would look to see if we could use
probably area sampling, rather than a complete enumeration,
which will cut costs and also improve the timeliness.
Mrs. Christensen. Thank you.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Chairwoman.
Mr. Burton, do you have any questions?
Mr. Burton. First of all, I want to apologize for my
tardiness, so if I ask some questions that sound redundant,
forgive me.
Mr. Clay. We will let you catch up to speed.
Mr. Burton. You will let me catch up? OK.
Mr. Clay. Yes, I will let you catch up.
Mr. Burton. First of all, I was not aware that the
collecting of census data was that much different than it is in
the 50 States, but evidently there is some disparity there. So,
real briefly, could you tell me why that disparity exists and
what impact it has on the people who are living there as far as
the delivery of goods and services from the U.S. Government?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Well, I will answer the first part in terms
of what data we do collect and what data we don't collect for
the island areas.
Mr. Burton. Well, let me put it this way. Is the data
consistent with the data that you collect from the 50 several
States?
Mr. Mesenbourg. The data are consistent that we collect in
the decennial census and the economic census. What we collect
in the island areas is consistent and quite very similar to
what we collect for mainland United States.
Mr. Burton. Well, why is it that Mr. Fortuno and others
from the islands--Guam, American Samoa, Puerto Rico--why is it
they have concerns about the problems or the disparities that
exist between how people in the 50 States are treated and how
they are in the islands?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Well, the biggest issue is one of
frequency. So under existing programs there are household data
available for the island areas once every 10 years as part of
the decennial census, and that is what we were suggesting----
Mr. Burton. How does that differ from the 50 States?
Mr. Mesenbourg. The 50 States, it is really an issue of the
coverage of the American community survey.
Mr. Burton. I mean, there is different data collected at
different times in the 50 States as compared to the islands.
Why is that?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Well, when we first started the ACS
program, we had no master address files for the island areas,
so that was the original decision point not to cover them.
Mr. Burton. Is that still the case today?
Mr. Mesenbourg. That is still the case today.
Mr. Burton. So what you are saying is you don't have the
information that is necessary for you to give the same kind of
treatment as far as this data is concerned as you do in the
States.
Mr. Mesenbourg. We don't have the infrastructure in place
to provide the same----
Mr. Burton. Well, how do you solve that problem, if you
can?
Mr. Mesenbourg. What we were suggesting was to build and
update and maintain an address file for each of the island
areas after the 2010 census, and then implement an ACS survey
in each of the island areas on an annual basis after that.
Mr. Burton. How long has this been a problem, how many
years?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Well, we have never----
Mr. Burton. Ad infinitum?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Yes.
Mr. Burton. Well, if that is the case, why haven't we tried
before now to try to correct that? I mean, it seems to me we
have had a census--I was chairman of this committee for 6 years
when we had the last decennial census. It seems like every 10
years we have this. Why haven't we tried to solve this problem
with the islands before? And the reason I ask is because there
is a disparity in goods and services and the way they are
treated, and it doesn't seem like it should be that way. Let me
give you an example.
I went to Guam with the representative from Guam, and they
have an epidemic of diabetes over there, and they didn't have
enough dialysis machines to take care of the population. They
were running those things 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, and
they still couldn't take care of the population. We tried to
get $8 million to buy additional dialysis machines, which took
us about 3 or 4 years to get done. We finally did, but it seems
to me that ought to be something that would be in the normal
course of events, that we would take care of the people who are
American citizens, and not having them being second class
citizens, as they were in Guam. So why does it take so long to
get the information that is necessary to treat them equally?
Mr. Mesenbourg. One would be a function of resources. And
if there is a clear need for this data and the resources are
provided, I think we have suggested a plan that would start
addressing this data gap both on the household side and the
economic census side.
Mr. Burton. Well, see, that is troubling to me because we
are not talking about people who are not citizens. These are
citizens of the United States of America, and for us to say we
don't have the resources to get this data really kind of
troubles me. I know they are not States and I know they don't
have some of the benefits that they would have if they were
States, but, nevertheless, they are American citizens, and for
us not to give them the same basic things that we are giving to
American citizens in the 50 States doesn't make sense to me.
And when you say you don't have the resources, it seems to me
that is something that we should address immediately, or should
have addressed before now. The next 10 years after this
decennial census, are we going to be in the same boat, where we
say, hey, we don't have the resources to take care of the
things necessary to give them the same treatment that we are
the people of the 50 States? These are American citizens, and
we ought to make sure they get the same benefits and equality
that we do up here.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Mr. Burton.
I recognize Mr. Faleomavaega for 5 minutes.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
I want to thank both gentlemen for their testimony this
morning.
Mr. Mesenbourg, I know this is not a personal reflection on
anything in terms of one of our most standing leaders in the
Census Bureau, but I want to share with you a couple of
statements made as part of the statement submitted by our
Governor for the record. This is in reference in dealing with
the Census Bureau: ``The Census Bureau trusts the local
government to conduct the census and to uphold the law when
collecting information. However, once enumeration is completed
and all forms have been sent to the Census Bureau, the local
government is deliberately, deliberately prevented from
accessing census details to compile statistical reports or to
conduct detailed analysis and special tabulation.'' And then
under other conditions, American Samoa is included in the
domestic process during the preparation and carrying out of the
census enumeration, but, unfortunately, it is treated under the
international program. Can you help me reconcile this action or
conduct on the part of the Census Bureau?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Certainly. Let me address the first point.
It really has to do with the confidentiality that is afforded
census data once we collect it, and what we promise the
respondent, whether household or business, is that we will
publish only aggregate data, and we will not identify the
individual location of any business or any household. So once
we have collected the individual data, whether on a household
survey or an economic census survey, that is considered Title
13 data and the only people that actually can access that data
are Census Bureau employees. So I believe that is the answer to
the questions. Once we have collected all the data and we have
these microdata files, then they are Title 13 data and we go to
great lengths to protect the confidentiality of it.
Mr. Faleomavaega. All right, but isn't the whole purpose of
collecting data and information to help these various
territories and States? Let's talk about economics I am having
a terrible time just dealing with the issue, as Mr. Pula
indicated earlier, about the minimum wage issue that is now
going to cause economic chaos, as far as I am concerned, with
CNMI and my own territory, and the problem was we couldn't get
proper data and information from the Bureau of Labor
Statistics, Department of Labor, let alone we don't even have
enough information coming from the Census Bureau. So we are
right back at square one.
And I cannot thank my good friend from Indiana for raising
the point. There definitely is a disparity here. If we are
willing to do a complete survey of all these three or four
major surveys with the States--and this is not a negative
reflection in any way to a State like Wyoming, with 522,000
people, how is that different if we are going to deal with
Puerto Rico, with 4.4 million? Why do we have to have an MOU to
deal with the territories? Would you support, maybe just do a
little amendment to include the insular areas with these three
or four major surveys that the Census Bureau conducts?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Well, the Census Bureau serves as the
collection agent for the CPS. The Bureau of Labor Statistics
actually is the sponsor of the program. So in terms of
covering----
Mr. Faleomavaega. Do you realize--I don't mean to interrupt
you--we cannot even, the Federal Government and even the U.S.
Congress cannot make a determination what our economic
situation is right now not only in American Samoa, but also for
CNMI because of these disparities in statistics both from the
Labor Department, as well as from the Census Bureau. What would
be your recommendation to the Congress, given the fact that we
are in this dire straits right now, trying to determine what
our economy is?
Mr. Mesenbourg. All right, I don't think I am in a position
to speak for what the Bureau of Labor Statistics can do one way
or another. We certainly will work with them----
Mr. Faleomavaega. All right, let's deal with census.
Mr. Mesenbourg. With the census, I think the most effective
thing we could do on the economic side is to move forward with
an annual economic survey of each of the island areas. As I
said, our monthly, quarterly, and annual surveys do not provide
any coverage by State, so that would be a huge undertaking to
try to redesign those to cover each----
Mr. Faleomavaega. What would be the approximate cost to
suggest if the insular areas are included in these three or
four major surveys?
Mr. Mesenbourg. The three or four being CPS----
Mr. Faleomavaega. CIP, ABC, CIPP, whatever names that we
put on this.
Mr. Mesenbourg. We haven't developed a cost estimate for
what it would take to do an annual economic survey, but it
would be less than what it is to conduct the economic census.
And the economic census in the four island areas plus Puerto
Rico is, as I said, about $8 million to $9 million over a 5-
year cycle. So it would probably be $2 million or so, maybe
less than that, if we were just doing the island areas.
Mr. Faleomavaega. I realize that, but once you put the
thing in place, then I am sure it would be a much lesser cost
than the initial way of installing or organizing.
I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, my time is up.
Mr. Clay. The gentleman's time has expired, but thanks for
the line of questions.
Mr. Serrano is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. Serrano. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Mesenbourg, is it still the position, as I brought up
before, of the census folks that the lack of inclusion at every
level of the territories is a constitutional question? Has that
been cleared at all yet, in your opinion?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Well, in my 2 weeks in this job--
[laughter]--I must admit I am uninformed about that, but we can
go back and check. It is my understanding that the
apportionment number is the States. As I mentioned earlier, I
am certainly not a constitutional scholar or lawyer.
Mr. Serrano. No, and I didn't mean to rely on your 2 weeks,
but, rather, your 30--what is it?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Thirty-six, yes.
Mr. Serrano. We have both been the same amount of time in
this business. And that is what I meant, what you had heard
throughout the years traditionally has been that it is a
constitutional question. Is that still what you keep hearing
from other folks at the Census Bureau?
Mr. Mesenbourg. Well, I believe on the decennial census and
on the household side that may be the question. If we go to the
economic side, we have designed all of our current surveys
basically, one of the primary objectives is to provide source
data to the Bureau of economic Analysis for calculation of the
GDP, and GDP right now does not include Puerto Rico or the
territories. Consequently, since one of the primary purposes is
to provide source data for the U.S. GDP, we have designed our
surveys and samples in such a way that they do not provide any
sub-national detail, because it is not needed.
So what that does is permit us, for the service sector, for
example, and the economic census stateside, we will mail forms
to 2 million business locations. In our annual survey we will
collect national level data from 50,000 firms, and on our
quarterly survey we will collect it from 6,000 firms. So, if
suddenly, we were required to provide data by States and
territories, those samples would have to be hugely increased to
be able to provide that.
So on the economic side one of the main drivers has been
what kind of data are needed for calculation of quarterly GDP
in the United States.
Mr. Serrano. Let me just finalize by asking you a semi-
related question. Is the next census form going to ask the same
questions on race that it did before, in the same way? And I
refer you to the fact--and I have said this at other hearings--
my experience in New York has been that the toughest questions
for Puerto Ricans to fill is what race are you. In fact, I
probably admit in public that I probably fill out my census
form incorrectly. I checked off Hispanic, and under Hispanic I
checked off Puerto Rican. Then it said what race are you--
Black, White, other. I checked off other. And when it said
which other, I wrote Puerto Rican again. That is how a lot of
folks see us and we see ourselves. So is that staying the same?
Will I be asked to declare one of these days?
Mr. Mesenbourg. I am not clear if we changed the question,
but I know the content has been forwarded to the Congress in
early April, so the content has been set. So whatever the
questions are on those forms are the way that we plan to ask
it.
Mr. Serrano. Thank you. Because Puerto Ricans, as you know,
fall under the all of the above category in one person.
[Laughter.]
Thank you so much. And once again, Tom, personally--I am
sorry for the Tom--but we thank you for your service and we
note not the 2-weeks, but the many, many years.
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Mr. Serrano, for simplifying the
census form for us.
Let me thank both of our witnesses for the testimony today.
I will allow closing statements for any Member who desires,
starting with Mrs. Christensen.
Mrs. Christensen. Thank you. I want to again recognize and
thank you, Chairman Clay, for your leadership, your interest,
and your willingness to work with our subcommittee and the
territories on this, as you concede, very important and highly
charged issue.
I want to thank both Mr. Pula and Mr. Mesenbourg not only
for your testimony today, but for your service in your
respective agencies and to our Government and our country.
I was very pleased with the level of expertise and
engagement from all of our witnesses. It is clear that a
problem exists in the way our fellow Americans living in the
U.S. territories are counted. But it also seems to me that our
Federal representatives have a willingness to further discuss
these issues not just for the sake of talking about them, but
for the purpose of resolving them.
I am sure that Chairman Clay would agree that progress can
and should be made, and that both of us would intend to
continue our oversight responsibilities to ensure that we are
all moving in the right direction.
With that, Mr. Chairman, I want to point out that all of
the Governors from each of the U.S. territories will likely be
on the east coast in the coming months for the National
Governors Association summer session. I believe that both the
Census Bureau and the Department of the Interior should take
advantage of this opportunity to begin those discussions and to
start coming to an agreement on how data can begin to be
compiled on our islands, and our subcommittees could help
facilitate in this regard if needed.
I want to recognize my ranking member, Mr. Fortuno, for his
leadership on this issue for the people of Puerto Rico and for
really actually initiating this discussion about census, and
for the participation from all of our colleagues, both those
representing Guam and American Samoa, Chairman Serrano, who has
really been very, very helpful to the territories, and Mr.
Burton, thank you for yours as well.
But, Mr. Chairman, we couldn't have done it without you.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much, Mrs. Christensen.
Mr. Fortuno, you are recognized.
Mr. Fortuno. Chairman Clay and Chairwoman Christensen, I
want not thank you both for your leadership in this and for
holding this hearing. I want to thank the panelists as well for
their insight, and all of my colleagues for our interest.
Certainly, it is obvious, and I echo the words stated
earlier today by my dear friend from New York, Congressman
Serrano. The founding fathers never intended for territories to
last 100, 110 years in limbo, so this has repercussions on
everything. This is just one of many other repercussions that
we, as a Nation, are confronting, and one way or another we
will have to face them. I hope we do it sooner, rather than
later.
But, in the meantime, we have to address the needs of the
inhabitants of those territories, and certainly in the case of
Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands and some of the others,
we are talking about U.S. citizens that proudly serve in our
military and are part and parcel of the greatest Nation on
Earth. So we welcome your insights and your input in trying to
make sure that we address this unintended consequence of us
having these territories that we were not supposed to have for
so long. Thank you again.
Mr. Clay. Thank you so much.
Mr. Faleomavaega, you are recognized for closing.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Mr. Chairman, not wanting to be
repetitious, but I do want to thank again the distinguished
chairwoman of our Insular Affairs Subcommittee, Mrs.
Christensen, and our ranking member from Puerto Rico, Mr.
Fortuno. If this is really not truly a spirit of
bipartisanship, where we always try to work together, and to
thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your initiative and your
leadership in joining together with our subcommittee to conduct
this hearing that is so important for the insular areas.
I also want to commend my good friend from Indiana, Mr.
Burton, for his leadership and the great help that he has given
in allowing the insular areas to also be recipients of some of
the programs dealing with Medicare and Medicaid. We have not
forgotten that, Mr. Burton, and we truly want to thank you for
thinking about us. Hopefully, the disparities that we now have
come to discover about how the insular areas are being treated
both by the Census Bureau, as well as the Department of Labor,
that we should do something to remedy this situation.
Again, Mr. Chairman, I thank you. And I do want to thank
our excellent witnesses. I look forward to working with them in
the coming months on this issue. Thank you again.
Mr. Clay. Thank you very much.
Mr. Burton.
Mr. Burton. I will be very brief. I know that you are one
of the leadership, you are the leaders in the census area. I
wish you would carry the message back from all of us, those who
are in the islands, but in the 50 several States as well, that
we really think all American citizens, regardless of where they
are, ought to be treated the same; and wherever there is a
disparity, it ought to be corrected as quickly as possible.
Thank you.
Mr. Clay. Thank you, Mr. Burton.
Mr. Serrano, any closing remarks?
Mr. Serrano. Very briefly. Just to thank the leadership of
the committee for allowing me to sit here today. I really
appreciate it. And to let the folks in front of us know that it
is not the Census Bureau, it is American society in general.
For instance, and this will really go down in history as a
profound statement, are you aware that major league baseball
lists people born in the Bronx with Puerto Rican parents as
native-born Americans, and their cousin, who was signed in
Puerto Rico, as foreign baseball players? A couple of years ago
there was a study done of foreign-born Members of Congress and
I was listed. So there goes a bigger issue.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Would the gentleman yield?
Mr. Serrano. I yield.
Mr. Faleomavaega. Is he aware that American Samoa produces
more NFL players than any other State or territory in the
United States? [Laughter.]
Mr. Serrano. I am aware of that, but you guys can't hit a
curve ball. [Laughter.]
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Clay. On behalf of myself and my colleagues, I would
like to thank all of our witnesses for their testimony today
and thank some of the colleagues here for enlightening us on
major league baseball and football. I appreciate that.
On a serious note, it is my hope that the parties here can
immediately begin to interact and begin discussions toward
solving these problems. If this subcommittee can help
facilitate action in any manner, please get in touch with me or
my staff. And, again, thank all of the Members for
participating today.
That concludes this hearing.
[Whereupon, at 12:15 p.m., the subcommittees were
adjourned.]
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