You won’t be put on a TSA “List” if you forget Your ID
“Lack of ID put fliers on TSA list.” This USA Today story perpetuates exactly the type of misperceptions that damage the credibility of a system designed to protect the traveling public in a post 9/11 world. The paper was careful not to be inaccurate but omitted information we provided that would have given a more balanced perspective.
An August 13 USA Today article overstated the Transportation Security Administration’s interest in passengers who come to airport checkpoints without identification but cooperate in establishing their identity. The story gives the public the impression they might be put on a “list” if they forget their ID. That is false.
Passengers whose identity is confirmed will not be added to any watch list or face additional scrutiny during future checkpoint visits.
When it comes to security, identity matters. Positively identifying passengers is a critical tool in TSA’s multi-layered approach to security and one that has been bolstered significantly during the past 18 months. On June 21 enhanced identification requirements went into effect and passengers now have to be positively identified before proceeding past the checkpoint. This makes sense because our law enforcement and intelligence partners go to great lengths to identify people planning attacks on aircraft. It is our obligation to stop them once they have been identified.
Since the new requirements went into effect, 16,434 people nationwide have come to the checkpoint without identification for a variety of reasons. The identity of these individuals was successfully resolved in all but 558 instances. This was during a period of time that 92 million people flew in the United States.
TSA collects real-time information from airports across the country so that our operation center can look for patterns and data points of significant security value. The information is only shared with other law enforcement partners on a need-to-know basis. The ability to "connect the dots" on emerging situations can not be underestimated. In the post 9/11 world, such analysis is so fundamental to protecting the American public that it was a recommendation of the 9/11 Commission.
Because our mission requires this capability, we do collect information about individuals who present false identification or misrepresent themselves to get in an airplane.
TSA EoS Blog Team
An August 13 USA Today article overstated the Transportation Security Administration’s interest in passengers who come to airport checkpoints without identification but cooperate in establishing their identity. The story gives the public the impression they might be put on a “list” if they forget their ID. That is false.
Passengers whose identity is confirmed will not be added to any watch list or face additional scrutiny during future checkpoint visits.
When it comes to security, identity matters. Positively identifying passengers is a critical tool in TSA’s multi-layered approach to security and one that has been bolstered significantly during the past 18 months. On June 21 enhanced identification requirements went into effect and passengers now have to be positively identified before proceeding past the checkpoint. This makes sense because our law enforcement and intelligence partners go to great lengths to identify people planning attacks on aircraft. It is our obligation to stop them once they have been identified.
Since the new requirements went into effect, 16,434 people nationwide have come to the checkpoint without identification for a variety of reasons. The identity of these individuals was successfully resolved in all but 558 instances. This was during a period of time that 92 million people flew in the United States.
TSA collects real-time information from airports across the country so that our operation center can look for patterns and data points of significant security value. The information is only shared with other law enforcement partners on a need-to-know basis. The ability to "connect the dots" on emerging situations can not be underestimated. In the post 9/11 world, such analysis is so fundamental to protecting the American public that it was a recommendation of the 9/11 Commission.
Because our mission requires this capability, we do collect information about individuals who present false identification or misrepresent themselves to get in an airplane.
TSA EoS Blog Team
Labels: mission
posted by Bob at
6:44 PM
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101 Comments:
If Kippie said he was going to end the practice, then it must have been taking place.
But that's all right - you just keep telling yourselves that you're protecting us from terrorists:
"Positively identifying passengers is a critical tool in TSA’s multi-layered approach to security and one that has been bolstered significantly during the past 18 months."
Almost no one believes you.
August 13, 2008 7:23 PM
I noticed nobody put their name on this.
August 13, 2008 7:27 PM
OK:
The identity of these individuals was successfully resolved in all but 558 instances.
What exactly happened to those 558 people?
How many of them held valid ticket which you rendered moot?
How many of them were referred to law enforcement?
How many of them were minor children.
How many of them cooperated fully with your attemt to vett their ID?
How many of them refused to assist with the vetting process?
How many of the went balistic enough at your rules that they ended up being arrested?
How many were pretending to be Kip Hawley>
August 13, 2008 7:31 PM
Your credibility cannot be damaged any further because you have no credibility. Why should we believe anything you say about who is or is not on your ultra-super-duper secret list of dangerous people who aren't dangerous enough to arrest? No one trusts you because you have consistently shown that you do not deserve the trust of the citizens you are failing to serve.
August 13, 2008 7:40 PM
What part are they exaggerating?
The impression that the story gives the public only would appear to be false now that the program was terminated yesterday afternoon, according to the article. Or are you claiming that the comments attributed to Kip are actually false and/or misquotes of him?
You're basically implying in this post that the TSA has NEVER added names to any list anywhere for passengers who did not present ID at a screening checkpoint at any time in the past. I know for certain that my name was taken - despite that the forms specifically said that it shouldn't be - so clearly there is a basis for concern amongst the public. Kip says that the names were being collected and that the practice stopped yesterday. You're now saying that the names were never being collected. Which one is it??
Also, why are you bothering to add names to a list if you cannot confirm the identity of the person claiming to have the name? Does the phrase "garbage in, garbage out" mean anything to you? If the data being put in is suspect then how can any resulting reports have value?
August 13, 2008 7:41 PM
In this "Post-911 World", the lot of you deserve to be hauled of to Gitmo and water-boarded for the rest of your natural lifetimes.
I find it absolutely amazing that you think it's okay to, not only perpetuate your existing anti-American practices, but keep coming up with new ones.
August 13, 2008 7:41 PM
Will Thomas Frank, the reporter who wrote this story, now be subjected to retaliatory screenings every time he flies?
August 13, 2008 7:43 PM
Because our mission requires this capability, we do collect information about individuals who present false identification or misrepresent themselves to get in an airplane.
So you know exactly how many people you have legitimately stopped from boarding planes. You're quick to share other numbers, why not that one?
August 13, 2008 7:54 PM
Well Bob, you say the practice of putting the names of people who had no ID on a list never happened.
Kip said it stopped yesterday.
So are you saying that Kip was not being truthful Bob?
One of you are not!
August 13, 2008 8:06 PM
Shameful liars working for our government, doing things in my name that I find totally repugnant.
August 13, 2008 8:16 PM
But until Tuesday, all of the approximately 16,500 persons that didn't have ID had their records kept in a database that was open to the TSA and law enforcement agencies. Why was that necessary?
August 13, 2008 8:29 PM
EOS team,
Was the USA Today article factually correct regarding several thousand people who did not or could not present ID being added to a list?
Did or did Mr. Hawley not indicate that people who did not or could not present ID would no longer have their names be added to a list?
Would the contrapositive be that people who did not or could not present ID had their names added to a list of 16,500 people?
I am confused how this is a misperception?
August 13, 2008 8:34 PM
I find it interesting that you don't deny that you're collecting this information and storing it for up to 15 years. You're just saying that you're not putting them on a list.
Of course, you're still using that information to data mine and compare against things like the No Fly List® which you claim the airlines check but TSA doesn't.
This is nothing but double talk. On top of that, you still don't say how ID helps security anyway ... just that it does. You can keep beating that dru, but it doesn't make it anymore true.
So here's a question: Passenger A buys a ticket and is issued a boarding pass by the airline. Supposely passes the NFL check. Presents ID and goes onto the plane. Passenger B buys a ticket and is also issued a boarding pass. Supposedly passes the NFL list. However, he doesn't have ID and gets the information collected, "identified" and checked against databases. Why do you have to do this when the airline already checked them against the NFL and passed them? Why does the person who doesn't have ID get checked again when the person who has ID is merely passed thru? The only difference is a card with a name on it and a picture.
None of this makes any sense. None of it adds to security. And it's obviously struck a really strong nerve as this is being addressed ASAP.
And by the way, you guys still never discussed the illegality of how you implemented a system BEFORE the PIA was approved by Hugo Teufel. Would you please explain to us why we should believe you now when you can't even obey the law?
August 13, 2008 8:41 PM
I'm not as cynical as my fellow commenters, but I do question the need for all this security. I dont think the increase in safety is worth the loss of personal freedom.
August 13, 2008 8:47 PM
An August 13 USA Today article overstated the Transportation Security Administration’s interest in passengers who come to airport checkpoints without identification but cooperate in establishing their identity. The story gives the public the impression they might be put on a “list” if they forget their ID. That is false.
Then which names are going to be expunged from your database?
Passengers whose identity is confirmed will not be added to any watch list or face additional scrutiny during future checkpoint visits.
Interesting that this is in the future tense.
Answer the questions plainly: Were people who forgot their ID placed on a "list"? Yes or no?
August 13, 2008 9:37 PM
(Here I go again ...)
Someone at TSA wrote:
On June 21 enhanced identification requirements went into effect and passengers now have to be positively identified before proceeding past the checkpoint. This makes sense because our law enforcement and intelligence partners go to great lengths to identify people planning attacks on aircraft. It is our obligation to stop them once they have been identified.
The list of individuals who have been identified as planning attacks on aircraft is not available to the TSO who checks the identity documents presented at the checkpoint entrance. Thus, the TSO has no way of knowing whether or not the person who presents identity cards at a checkpoint is a person under suspicion.
Francine argued in the previous posting that this check is performed by the airlines. However, as I have pointed out (repeatedly), the issuing of a boarding pass does not occur in the presence of, or under the control of, the TSA. Thus, the TSO examining the identity documents and comparing them to the boarding pass has no way to know if the boarding pass is genuine.
Identity may matter ... but only if you're verifying both identity and intent simultaneously. Right now, with these checks being separated by both time and space, there is ample opportunity for malicious individuals to evade detection.
August 13, 2008 9:54 PM
From the article you linked to in your unsigned blog post:
Asked about the program, TSA chief Kip Hawley told USA TODAY in an interview Tuesday that the information helps track potential terrorists who may be "probing the system" by trying to get though checkpoints at various airports.
Later Tuesday, Hawley called the newspaper to say the agency is changing its policy effective today and will stop keeping records of people who don't have ID if a screener can determine their identity. Hawley said he had been considering the change for a month. The names of people who did not have identification will soon be expunged, he said.
In your unsigned blog post you wrote:
An August 13 USA Today article overstated the Transportation Security Administration’s interest in passengers who come to airport checkpoints without identification but cooperate in establishing their identity. The story gives the public the impression they might be put on a “list” if they forget their ID. That is false.
Passengers whose identity is confirmed will not be added to any watch list or face additional scrutiny during future checkpoint visits.
Please explain why you are so intensely spinning or slanting the facts.
The story plainly and clearly states the TSA is no longer adding those person's without ID to the list, and that those already on the list will be expunged, yet you attempt to twist the truth by saying persons are not put on a list for that, clearly implying that TSA never did put those names on the list that they never did keep.
Your boss says otherwise.
If you had simply said "Yes we did that, but on reexamination, have decide to no longer do it, and to remove those names from the list" you might not have so damaged your believability yet one more time.
Why is it that public information folks don't seem to be at all happy unless they include at least one outright lie, misdirection, or null-content statement in any official release? Do you do this in your personal lives, too?
It is not propaganda we pay you to produce, but truthful information, reports to the citizens you work for on what you are doing and why.
You (collective you) were almost winning me over into believing the things you said on this blog. Now I am much more ready to believe the non-answers and repeated misunderstanding of questions were intentional, not just communication problems.
First your chief counsel re-wording the law to convince us her interpretation of it was correct, now this unsigned, but nevertheless official, twisting of the facts in claiming the news article was twisting the facts have driven a stake into the heart of any chance of my believing you folks.
Sorry, Blogger Bob, I was really beginning to like you, but you are on the wrong side of the line separating truth from propaganda, and though you may not have written this unsigned piece, you have at the very least responsibility for not correcting or speaking out against it.
August 13, 2008 10:02 PM
So does that mean that 558 people that could not be identified may have been terrorists? Were they able to continue their journey?
So if I travel without ID, and can't positively verify myself at that time,I could still end up on a watch list, boy, that's scary!!!
How do you know if you are ever removed once your ID has been verified??
August 13, 2008 10:10 PM
Thanks for attempting to respond/comment on a timely topic.
Will you be demanding a retraction from the USA Today? Were people being put on a list that is no no longer used? What happend to the list?
Thanks.
August 13, 2008 10:58 PM
There are some errors in your post:
You won’t be put on a TSA “List” if you forget Your ID
The title should read, "You should not have been put on a TSA “List” if you forgot Your ID"
Passengers whose identity is confirmed will not be added to any watch list or face additional scrutiny during future checkpoint visits.
It should read, "Passengers whose identity is confirmed will no longer be added to any watch list or face additional scrutiny during future checkpoint visits."
On June 21 enhanced identification requirements went into effect and passengers now have to be positively identified before proceeding past the checkpoint.
It should read, "On June 21 enhanced identification requirements went into effect and passengers now have to have a boarding pass with a name that matches the name on the passenger's identification before proceeding past the checkpoint."
An August 13 USA Today article overstated the Transportation Security Administration’s interest in passengers who come to airport checkpoints without identification but cooperate in establishing their identity. The story gives the public the impression they might be put on a “list” if they forget their ID. That is false.
The story also gives the impression that, "Hawley called the newspaper to say the agency is changing its policy effective today and will stop keeping records of people who don't have ID if a screener can determine their identity. Hawley said he had been considering the change for a month. The names of people who did not have identification will soon be expunged, he said."
Is that also false? Hawley's statement to the paper alone seems to support the idea that the names of cooperative passengers who did not present an identification document were recorded by the TSA.
August 13, 2008 11:40 PM
We have met the enemy, and he is us"
August 14, 2008 12:37 AM
You guys are sooooooo busted.
Time for another puppy dog post.
August 14, 2008 2:24 AM
It is not propaganda we pay you to produce, but truthful information, reports to the citizens you work for on what you are doing and why.
Keep watch for the ongoing spin where they play the role of linguistics expert and play a game of semantics.
I am willing to bet that we will hear that it was a "database" but not a "list." See the difference? Of course not. However, the author of this disgraceful post won't let that stop him or her from spinning this to provide cover.
Sadly, what this boils down to is that if you made a mistake in losing or forgetting your ID, your name was added to a database (i.e. list) because you could have been a potential terrorist.
Sen. Joseph McCarthy and J. Edgar Hoover would be so proud!
August 14, 2008 3:05 AM
Can't you at least try to be truthful in your posts?
Collecting a database of the 16,000+ (apparently mostly innocent) people who attempted to fly without ID is in fact a "list."
It may not be DHS/TSA's current blacklist of people who are denied air travel with no due process or effective means of redress, but it is a list none the less.
There's nothing to stop TSA from using this list in the future to harass, punish, or deny rights to those who are on it.
August 14, 2008 7:20 AM
"The title should read, "You should not have been put on a TSA “List” if you forgot Your ID""
What would be even MORE accurate would be, "the only reason you're not being put on a list if you forgot your ID anymore is because of the USA Today article we're so upset about, unless of course we're lying about not putting people on a list anymore, which you'll never know since the list is secret."
August 14, 2008 8:08 AM
Heck, I work for TSA, and this stuff has me confused about the truth of it all.
Here's what I think should happen- if you are caught with a false or forged document, then yes- your name should be recorded. If you merelyt forgot your ID or it is expired, then no, I don't agree that your name should be recorded. Forgetting or losing an ID is not criminal. Forging or providing false documents is.
August 14, 2008 8:18 AM
You many not be put on the TSA "List" if you forget Your ID, but it seems that you certainly will be, if you criticize the Republican party, or the Bush Administration -- as reported by CNN's Drew Griffin, in the case of author Jim Moore.
CNN Video
So, would you please answer Moore's question: "...am I someone's political enemy, or do I live in a country where the government is just utterly, completely incompetent..?"
August 14, 2008 9:06 AM
So what other non-list lists does TSA keep on citizens and travelers?
We know you have political party information. How about ones church information? Pro Choice or Pro life beliefs? Membership in cetain groups? What books and magizines we read?
When can we expect the TSA Acceptable Activities and Organizations book? Sure wouldn't want to do anything to get put on another secret list of names!
If you folks working for TSA do not see the damage this agency is causing to your country then you will only be able to blame yourselves when all of your freedoms have been stolen.
Is a paycheck really worth what this agency does in the so called name of safety?
August 14, 2008 9:34 AM
Has anyone seen the topical story on CNN today?
James Moore, author of books critical of the Bush adminstration recounts his misadventures after being listed on the terror watch list. CNN Reporter Drew Griffin, also on the mysterious list after doing critical stories, did the story.
Any comment Bloggers? Kip? These stories seem to contradict what has been stated in this blog.
August 14, 2008 10:15 AM
Quote from Anonymous: "Collecting a database of the 16,000+ (apparently mostly innocent) people who attempted to fly without ID is in fact a "list."
I'm willing to bet they were all innocent. TSA stated that 558 people were denied boarding. However, it didn't say how many of those people were arrested and what they were arrested for.
Everytime TSA makes a Big Catch® it always trumpets that the person was arrested and what they were arrested for. This is noticeably absent. As such, I can't help but conclude based on previous patterns that these people were denied their right to travel without due process.
Robert
August 14, 2008 10:21 AM
"This blog post perpetuates exactly the type of misperceptions that reinforce the credibility of a system poorly designed to protect the traveling public in a post[-]9/11 world. The blog post was somewhat careful not to be inaccurate but omitted information that would have given a more balanced perspective."
I'm surprised you can even tell us whether people without ID are added to a list or not. It seems that should be super secret information, since it tells the terrorists about how the process works.
If the form that passengers without ID have to fill out as part of the cooperation is shredded and discarded once they are through security, then fine. But if those forms are kept, then you are effectively keeping a list. Granted, it's not necessarily a "watch list", but it's a list nonetheless.
August 14, 2008 11:57 AM
The text of your post makes the headline a lie: You've got at least one "list" that you put people on.
Do you have a list of the 16,434 people? What is in that list? Enough information to separate out the shorter list of 558 people perhaps?
If "Passengers whose identity is confirmed will not be added to any watch list or face additional scrutiny during future checkpoint visits," what do you do with the passengers whose identity is not confimed.
August 14, 2008 12:12 PM
Looking forward to the Blog Team's response to this USA Today article:
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-08-13-tsatests_N.htm
Probably safe to assume that this article, too, misleads us peons?
August 14, 2008 12:19 PM
Thank you Tomas. I came to the comments to post just that.
Why do you guys have to spin the facts? Tell it how it is. No wonder you guys haven't earned our respect yet.
August 14, 2008 1:32 PM
There is another article in the USA today about the TSA's screening failures
See http://tinyurl.com/68sgcg
It seems Commissioner Hawley is more concerned with creating his dream "papers please" society than he is worried about the TSA's core mission of finding weapons.
People are starting to "connect the dots" about the dishonesty and ineffectiveness of TSA's expensive, intrusive security theater.
August 14, 2008 1:40 PM
The text of your post makes its headline a lie: You've got at least one "list" that you put people on.
Do you have a list of the 16,434 people? What is in that list? Enough information to separate out the shorter list of 558 people perhaps?
If "Passengers whose identity is confirmed will not be added to any watch list or face additional scrutiny during future checkpoint visits," what do you do with the passengers whose identity is not confimed.
August 14, 2008 1:48 PM
Ok, if you forget your id, ok, yada yada.
What if you politely but firmly refuse to show ID but instead request alternate identification verification?
Please stop pretending you don't see my questions.
August 14, 2008 2:03 PM
Ahh, get a little bad press (again), some less than glowing remarks from blog readers and you get your tails between your legs and stop approving post.
August 14, 2008 3:11 PM
I'm sorry but someone's gonna have to explain to me why the general public should trust what Kip & the TSA say.
August 14, 2008 3:11 PM
I would like a simple yes or no answer to the following question: Can the TSA's issues be directly related to Not-Invented-Here Disease?
I ask because there are so many other nations (Israel, Germany, Britain, Japan, Korea, United Arab Emirates, Hong-Kong/China, Singapore, Canada, etc) with TSA-like organizational structures that have a much better track record of actually accomplishing what needs to be done.
I think the title of the TSA needs to be change to "Tourism Suppression Agency" because of the wonderful job being done to dissuade American citizens from travelling abroad (and foreigners to travel to the US) by their actions.
August 14, 2008 3:13 PM
well no wonder nobody put their name on this one...when was the last time anyone from EOS responded?
August 14, 2008 3:39 PM
Quote from TSO Rachel: "Heck, I work for TSA, and this stuff has me confused about the truth of it all.
Here's what I think should happen- if you are caught with a false or forged document, then yes- your name should be recorded. If you merelyt forgot your ID or it is expired, then no, I don't agree that your name should be recorded. Forgetting or losing an ID is not criminal. Forging or providing false documents is."
Refusing to show your ID isn't illegal either, yet TSA seems to view that as criminal.
Robert
August 14, 2008 4:24 PM
tso rachel wrote...
Heck, I work for TSA, and this stuff has me confused about the truth of it all.
Here's what I think should happen- if you are caught with a false or forged document, then yes- your name should be recorded. If you merely forgot your ID or it is expired, then no, I don't agree that your name should be recorded. Forgetting or losing an ID is not criminal. Forging or providing false documents is.
I agree with that position 100%, Rachel. :o)
Might I add that TSA public information flacks should provide honest, factual, non-spun or slanted reports to the citizens they work for on what TSA is doing and why.
If they resort to propaganda or "yellow journalism" instead of straightforward honesty, they should be put on that special list, removed from public service, prevented from feeding from the public trough again, and automatically subjected to "SSSS" screening at every opportunity.
Maybe then the folks who's job is to honestly inform us will be more cautious as to what they put out.
Rachel, folks like those who put out this particular blog post as an official statement of the TSA hurt you more than you would believe.
Tom
(One of the 5 or 6 regulars - probably on SOMEBODY'S list...)
August 14, 2008 4:37 PM
When it comes to security, identity matters. Positively identifying passengers is a critical tool in TSA’s multi-layered approach to security and one that has been bolstered significantly during the past 18 months.
So how do you verify the identity of an professionally done counterfeit ID? You can't. Why is positively identifying passengers a 'critical tool' when known terrorists aren't on the no-fly list? Stop with the ID act in the security theater. That one played out months ago.
On June 21 enhanced identification requirements went into effect and passengers now have to be positively identified before proceeding past the checkpoint.
Positively identified? Put the kool-aid down and step away from the table. A bored, disinterested TSO marking tickets in no way insures anything except that the boarding pass was handled by TSA and that some identification was presented. You have not verified anything.
This makes sense because our law enforcement and intelligence partners go to great lengths to identify people planning attacks on aircraft. It is our obligation to stop them once they have been identified.
How many terrorists has TSA stopped? Given the ROI I would say that TSA must have stopped tens of thousands of terrorists. What's that you say, that TSA hasn't stopped a single terrorist? So what are American taxpayers getting for their money?
Since the new requirements went into effect, 16,434 people nationwide have come to the checkpoint without identification for a variety of reasons. The identity of these individuals was successfully resolved in all but 558 instances. This was during a period of time that 92 million people flew in the United States.
So what did TSA do to the 558 people? Put their names on multiple databases so as to guarantee that regardless of what they do to clear their name off of TSA's database, they will forever deal with TSA.
TSA collects real-time information from airports across the country so that our operation center can look for patterns and data points of significant security value.
Real time information? Passengers fly on every day that ends in the letter Y. Water is wet. I can carry more moisture in my mouth than TSA authorizes anyone to carry through the check point.
The information is only shared with other law enforcement partners on a need-to-know basis.
Garbage In Garbage Out. Your data mining struck a high pressure raw sewage pipeline instead of gold.
The ability to "connect the dots" on emerging situations can not be underestimated.
Emerging Situations? Take a look at the damage control your organization must do to shut down the USA Today articles. Take a look at the ACLU taking a swing at TSA for suspicious activities.
In the post 9/11 world, such analysis is so fundamental to protecting the American public that it was a recommendation of the 9/11 Commission.
Security theater played out. I do not support 'security at any cost' for a multitude of reasons. DHS provides comedic relief for government organizations that do protect us.
August 14, 2008 4:40 PM
"I asked the Blog team to remove the comments, and they did."
Did they mark them as removed?
Are they starting to just make comments vanish again, without any note?
I thought we were told that removing posts w/o out record would stop.
August 14, 2008 4:50 PM
Tomas wrote:
Tom
(One of the 5 or 6 regulars - probably on SOMEBODY'S list...)
Santa Clause's. Clearly. :)
August 14, 2008 5:26 PM
If "Passengers whose identity is confirmed will not be added to any watch list or face additional scrutiny during future checkpoint visits," what do you do with the passengers whose identity is not confimed.
August 14, 2008 12:12 PM
Firing Squad
August 14, 2008 5:40 PM
@Dean: Santa Clause's. Clearly. :)
Sadly, I believe Santa a lot more than I do Kippie.
August 14, 2008 7:09 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080814/ap_on_go_ot/traffic_deaths
41,000+ deaths on the nations roadways in 2007.
How many died on 9/11?
Shouldn't the budget for Transportation Security be used to improve the Safety of this nations travelers on the highways and byways?
I say that TSA is misusing its resources in a crimminal way. We need better roadways, better signage and better lighting.
How many terrorist have attempted to carry out an aircraft attack?
How many people are at risk should an attack be carried out?
TSA is a complete waste of resources that should be spent for the good of the public.
We do not need Spotniks, BDO's and Dog Teams patrolling airports.
Beef up the Air Marshal serivce and armed crewmen. Have an armed crewman or air marshal on every flight.
Spend the rest of TSA's budget on other things.
For the out of work TSO's give them a garbage bag to pick up trash and beautify the nations roadways. Then they will finally be doing something uselful!
August 14, 2008 9:06 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-08-13-tsatests_N.htm
TSA screener testing labeled 'a waste'
When will Bob post some more babble about this article?
Theather!!
August 14, 2008 9:11 PM
Amib.us "Since the new requirements went into effect, 16,434 people nationwide have come to the checkpoint without identification for a variety of reasons. The identity of these individuals was successfully resolved in all but 558 instances"
558 illegal aliens You did not report?
August 14, 2008 9:38 PM
Yeah... it sucks when people slant the story and don't give you the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, maybe if you weren't attacking the fundamental principles upon which this country is based, people would be more inclined to cut you some slack.
You are worse than the terrorists you claim to be fighting. You are the real enemy.
August 14, 2008 11:42 PM
I guess the only people who had misperceptions about the USA Today article were the people who wrote and approved the press release. I understood it, The TSA used to put people with no ID who can be identified by the TSA on a list, now they don't. So what happens to the 16,000 people with their names on the list prior to the policy change?
You would think that after the over-hyped battery pack press release the TSA would be more careful about what press releases say. The only thing you did learn was don't include the name of the person who wrote it.
One of the 5 or 6 who post here
August 15, 2008 7:05 AM
If Kippie said he was going to end the practice, then it must have been taking place.
But that's all right - you just keep telling yourselves that you're protecting us from terrorists:
"Positively identifying passengers is a critical tool in TSA’s multi-layered approach to security and one that has been bolstered significantly during the past 18 months."
August 15, 2008 7:32 AM
It's amazing. I've never seen an government agency fail as spectacularly, and as completely as the TSA. The way they manage to miss the ENTIRE point of security is just astounding. They're doing for security what Michael Bay did for the Pearl Harbor attack.
August 15, 2008 9:49 AM
"Passengers whose identity is confirmed will not be added to any watch list or face additional scrutiny during future checkpoint visits."
As a matter of curiosity, if you could *not* confirm their identity and therefore wished to add them to the list, what name would you add?
August 15, 2008 10:05 AM
It's Friday, aren't we due for a puppy post? :o)
August 15, 2008 3:42 PM
"A more BALANCED perspective'??????
USA Today caught you guys.... and continues to do so. You (TSA) just don't like being exposed.
August 15, 2008 6:16 PM
Someone said
Is a paycheck really worth what this agency does in the so called name of safety?
The paycheck isn't but unlike you people I see the whole picture. My family members fly on a regular basis. If half of what most of you are trying to get rid of ends up gone, I wouldn't fly. If you had any clue why most of these policies are implimented you would understand. But since this country seen an almost complete collapse of the Airline industry after 9-11, releasing even a tenth of the intellegence would surely cripple the industry to the point of no return. I don't know how much money you make but my small government paycheck wouldn't be anywhere near enough to fly cross country for a family emergency if that happened. But you think you have the right to know. And at what cost. Careful what you ask for.
August 16, 2008 1:53 AM
Refusing to show your ID isn't illegal either, yet TSA seems to view that as criminal.
Robert
If they viewed it as criminal, you would be arrested, instead of them using other methods to verify your identy. Get off it. How many times do you have to be told. Anybody who's identy is verified, either by government issued ID or the other proceedures that TSA uses will fly. Only those who refuse to cooperate (you would only refuse if you have something to hide) or identification can't be verified won't fly. Nobody's rights are violated. You know the policy before going to the airport so follow it and get on with your trip. You would have a real complaint if you didn't know you had to be identified before making the choice to fly, obviously all of you know the policy.
August 16, 2008 2:08 AM
Anonymous writes:
How many times do you have to be told. Anybody who's identy is verified, either by government issued ID or the other proceedures that TSA uses will fly.
The problem is: TSA is inconsistent on the issue.
This TSA webpage says that all passengers are required to show ID at a checkpoint. Yet many TSOs are reporting here that this is not the case; as long as one is willing to work with TSA to verify one's identity by other means, showing ID is not required.
So, should I believe the TSOs who post here, or should I believe TSA's website?
August 16, 2008 10:03 AM
Jim Huggins wrote:
Yet many TSOs are reporting here that this is not the case; as long as one is willing to work with TSA to verify one's identity by other means, showing ID is not required.
So, should I believe the TSOs who post here, or should I believe TSA's website?
I'm sad to say that I found out more information.
There's a caveat.
- It depends entirely upon whom you refuse to show ID to, even if you are willing to go through the ID verification process.
If it's a 'normal' TSO at the TDC position, then what I said before is true - we start the verification process if you're willing to fill out the form. Not a likely situation, but, yeah, technically, it's true.
If it's a BDO at the TDC position, then the rule changes and there is no such referral to the ID verification procedure. Like I've said many times, BDOs operate under a completely different SOP than what TSOs operate under, and their SOP is SSI even for us to look at.
August 16, 2008 11:24 AM
"How many times do you have to be told. Anybody who's identy is verified, either by government issued ID or the other proceedures that TSA uses will fly."
How many times do you have to be told that TSA does not verify identity with the ID checks, they verify that the name on the ID that the passenger presents matches the name on the passenger's easily-altered boarding pass?
How many times do you have to be told that the 9/11 hijackers all had IDs?
August 16, 2008 12:06 PM
Wow. First, thank you Tomas for the articulate and comprehensive response. I join other posters in noting that I couldn't have said it better, and won't be holding my breath for a substantive response from the TSA.
Second, thank you to "anonymous" 1 & 2, who noted:
1) every other country in the world protects its travellers without the shoe carnival, the liquids farce, lying to the press, retaliatory secondaries, "do you want to fly today?", no-fly lists, barring 3-year-olds, senators and pop stars from flying, etc. etc. but Kip cannot manage the same thing in the USA. I join anonymous 1 in asking the TSA (for about the 10th time) to provide some explanation for this.
2) new statistics showing 41 something thousand died in auto accidents in the USA in 2007 (and presumbly previous global trends in which well over 1 million were killed each year on roads globally continued in 2007) were released. Number of people killed by terrorists in airplanes? Almost zero. In fact, if terrorists managed to bring down every plane in the world, they probably couldn't match the level of slaughter on the roads. TSA could do so much to actually make people safer -- they could have rebuilt that bridge that collapsed in Minnesota, they could improve unsafe roads, they could get unsafe drivers off the roads, they could shift more transport from road to rail -- all kinds of things that would actually save lives. Still waiting for a logical explanation for why they spend their money on looking for "bad guys" when terrorists have never in all of recorded history killed more people than die on the roads every year.
Finally, please Bob, these convoluted responses insult our intelligence.
August 16, 2008 2:52 PM
Anonymous said...
Someone said
Is a paycheck really worth what this agency does in the so called name of safety?
...........................
You left out the preceding paragragh which framed the question.
"If you folks working for TSA do not see the damage this agency is causing to your country then you will only be able to blame yourselves when all of your freedoms have been stolen."
I say that the TSA causes more harm to the country than any good it does.
You may not agree, but a growing group is beggining to see the damage the TSA is causing to the Constitution and Peoples of America.
As it is now TSA is pretty poor at performing their core task of keeping dangerous items off aircraft.
Also the power grab your agency leaders are engaged in causes alarm.
Regardless, please tell me, if all peoples are divested of dangerous weapon-like materials before boarding an aircraft then what else needs to be done?
The cockpits are secure now, which was the primary cause of success on 9/11.
Passengers will not sit meekly and let an actor take control of the aircraft.
We must have plenty of Air Marshalls by now that all flights are properly protected!
How about doing some of these things instead?
Checking airport workers?
Checking cargo?
Checking the US Mail that is loaded on many aircraft?
How about getting the crimminal element out of the TSA ranks?
Plenty could be done to guard the safe conduct of flights from terrorist.
Perhaps TSA should try these things instead of the theater that is now used!
August 16, 2008 6:07 PM
jim huggins wrote:
This TSA webpage says that all passengers are required to show ID at a checkpoint.
A review of that webpage would indicate the ID that the US government gave me for serving 21 years in the US Navy, and retiring, would not get me through the checkpoint.
Quote from TSA's website:
Beginning on May 26, 2008, adult passengers (18 and over) will be required to show a U.S. federal or state-issued photo ID that contains the following: name, date of birth, gender, expiration date and a tamper-resistant feature.
Why? Because retired military ID cards do not have an expiration date. We are retired "indefinite", and so indicated on the ID card.
Also, no where on the ID card is my gender.
So I guess my 21 years of serving my country gets me an ID that won't allow me to be a passenger on any flights in the USA.
Sad.
August 16, 2008 6:42 PM
Why is the home page at IP address 77.67.91.113 out of the Netherlands?
August 16, 2008 6:47 PM
"There is another article in the USA today about the TSA's screening failures
See http://tinyurl.com/68sgcg"
As a TSO, I can only think of two things not reported:
The X-ray machines I'm using date from the 1970's. New monitors and software, but the same machine.
And to fail a test is easy: If you don't follow the correct procedures, you fail. You may have detected the threat, but if you fail the procedure, you fail the test. No partial credit.
August 16, 2008 11:07 PM
"How many times do you have to be told that the 9/11 hijackers all had IDs?"
We're not screening for the 9/11 hijackers. They're dead.
August 17, 2008 6:12 PM
"How many times do you have to be told that TSA does not verify identity with the ID checks, they verify that the name on the ID that the passenger presents matches the name on the passenger's easily-altered boarding pass?"
If this is the case, what method would you recommend the TSA use to verify identity? Anything beyond matching the photo on the ID to the person standing in front of them seems like it would involve some kind of biometric technology that would cost us taxpayers to develop and deploy.
August 18, 2008 11:12 AM
And to fail a test is easy: If you don't follow the correct procedures, you fail. You may have detected the threat, but if you fail the procedure, you fail the test. No partial credit.
.................................
So you you think you should get partial credit for not doing your job correctly, is that what your saying?
Your comments say more than you intended!
August 18, 2008 12:48 PM
Quote from Anonymous: We're not screening for the 9/11 hijackers. They're dead."
The point is your ID farce still wouldn't have prevented them from boarding.
And if they're dead, why are some of them still on the No Fly List?
Robert
August 18, 2008 1:03 PM
Retired military ID is an acceptable form of ID to get you through the checkpoint ID check. The procedures were updated very shortly again June 21st.
The ID check does verify identity of a person by matching the person to the picture. If there is question as to the person matching, then the officer can ask for additional ID's to help with verifying the passenger's identity.
August 18, 2008 1:15 PM
Bob Eucher wrote
Why? Because retired military ID cards do not have an expiration date. We are retired "indefinite", and so indicated on the ID card.
Also, no where on the ID card is my gender.
So I guess my 21 years of serving my country gets me an ID that won't allow me to be a passenger on any flights in the USA.
Nope.
The fact that it states the expiration date is indefinite on a military-retired ID is irrelevant.
Retired military IDs are acceptable under the fact that they're military IDs, even without that information. That stuff is required if it's a federal/state-issued ID that's not on the 'approved ID' list (passports, passport cards, state driver's licenses, etc.). On our own internal list that's kept with the TDC procedures, they're labeled "other ID" and have to meet those requirements you list from the TSA website.
Incidentally, a military dependent's ID are also as perfectly okay as the military IDs themselves.
August 18, 2008 1:25 PM
Someone anonymously wrote:
"How many times do you have to be told. Anybody who's identy is verified, either by government issued ID or the other proceedures that TSA uses will fly. Only those who refuse to cooperate (you would only refuse if you have something to hide) or identification can't be verified won't fly. Nobody's rights are violated."
Jim Huggins responded:
"The problem is: TSA is inconsistent on the issue.
"This TSA webpage says that all passengers are required to show ID at a checkpoint. Yet many TSOs are reporting here that this is not the case; as long as one is willing to work with TSA to verify one's identity by other means, showing ID is not required."
Good point, Jim.
Somone else responded anonymously to the aforementioned comment:
"How many times do you have to be told that TSA does not verify identity with the ID checks, they verify that the name on the ID that the passenger presents matches the name on the passenger's easily-altered boarding pass?"
Someone anonymously changed the subject a bit and responded:
"If this is the case, what method would you recommend the TSA use to verify identity?"
Sir or madam, many of us do not recommend that the TSA verify passengers' identity at all. It is no business of the United States Government who flies via commercial airline. If I contract with an airline to transport me, that is between me and the airline. TSA should ensure that I do not carry anything dangerous onto the flight and then let me go about my business.
Numerous requests here for TSA to explain how an ID check can help improve airline security have been either ignored or responded to with non-answers. For example, see the "Answers to Your Top 10 Questions" post. After TSA made it clear that people who politely decline to show their papers when asked to do so by an airport security guard would be treated differently than someone in precisely the same situation except that he stated he misplaced those papers would be treated, some of us began to ask (question #2 from that post):
Q: In the context of ensuring air travel safety, what is the difference between two people, both of whom are willing to cooperate with TSA's invasive interrogations, one of whom politely declines to show ID, the other of whom claims he lost or misplaced his ID?
Blogger Bob did not answer the question, but instead provided a response that began, "Bottom line is identity matters. We need to verify who is getting on the plane."
Every time we ask why identification is necessary, the response we get is that it is necessary. TSA's unwillingness or inability to justify the ID check reinforces the assertion that it is not useful for ensuring transportation security.
August 18, 2008 1:31 PM
TSA seems to not respect freedom of the press.
Does the interpertation of the Constitution by TSA's Chief Lawyer support the placing of reporters and journalist on watch lists when publishing articles that that do not complement TSA?
August 18, 2008 2:56 PM
anonymous said...
If this is the case, what method would you recommend the TSA use to verify identity?
Just curious why you feel identity is so important to security?
The TSA is wasting resources trying to use identity as a means of achieving security.
What difference if I am Tom Dean, or Bob Eucher? As long as I do not bring anything on the airplane to do harm, my identity does not matter.
The TSA has an agenda that they are so adamant about ID's. I suspect it is compliance with REAL-ID, as directed from DHS.
The American people are finally waking up to the fact that the US government is using all this fear and terrorist nonsense to further their agenda of control. Doesn't look like REAL-ID is too popular among the 50 states.
August 18, 2008 3:46 PM
"If this is the case, what method would you recommend the TSA use to verify identity?"
I'd recommend TSA not worry about identity, since identity has nothing to do with security.
TSA knows this, of course -- note that in all of the chest-thumping bluster over the new ID policy (which may or may not have been changed since it was first unveiled on this blog), no one from TSA has articulated a single argument as to how and why identity relates to security. The new policy is about control, not security, just like the mandatory shoe removals and the 3.4-1-1 nonsense.
August 18, 2008 4:10 PM
Dean wrote, regarding the ID rule:
"I'm sad to say that I found out more information.
"There's a caveat.
"- It depends entirely upon whom you refuse to show ID to, even if you are willing to go through the ID verification process.
"If it's a 'normal' TSO at the TDC position, then what I said before is true - we start the verification process if you're willing to fill out the form. Not a likely situation, but, yeah, technically, it's true.
"If it's a BDO at the TDC position, then the rule changes and there is no such referral to the ID verification procedure. Like I've said many times, BDOs operate under a completely different SOP than what TSOs operate under, and their SOP is SSI even for us to look at."
Golly, it sure would be good if passengers could know the rules, as Kippie has asked us to do. (see comment from Marshall's SO in the "checkpoint friendly" laptop thread) However, we can't 'cause you won't give them to us.
Dean's comment is a perfect example of why, as another poster wrote, USA Today says the TSA's "rules" are a moving target.
For the first few years after 9/11, my colleagues at work supported the TSA for the most part. That has, thankfully, changed in the last two years and now the vast majority know the TSA is a worthless agency doing nothing to keep the skies safe.
August 18, 2008 5:09 PM
Anonymous wrote:
We're not screening for the 9/11 hijackers. They're dead.
Actually, you still might be screening for them. As of 2006,
14 of the 19 9/11 terrorists were still on the watchlist. (Of course, there's no way to know if they're on the list or not anymore ...)
August 18, 2008 5:58 PM
There were no lists, yet TSA knows that exactly 15,434 persons attempted to fly without ID. Hmmm.
August 18, 2008 7:03 PM
"This USA Today story perpetuates exactly the type of misperceptions that damage the credibility of a system designed to protect the traveling public in a post 9/11 world."
Way to shove in the 9/11 fear mongering plug right at the beginning. Disgusting.
August 18, 2008 11:04 PM
You won't be put on a TSA list, but your name will be put on a TSA list.
August 19, 2008 9:55 AM
But you will be put on a list if you visit another country for at least 15 years.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/19/AR2008081902811_pf.html
DHS/TSA is looking more and more like a certain WWII entity that was responsible for the death of millions.
It all starts with control of movement.
August 20, 2008 10:51 AM
I don't get this.
I got a new driver's license but forgot to replace my old one in my wallet.
So I arrived at the airport, and a screener noticed that it was expired. I had to go downstairs and get an SSSS boarding pass.
No problem, that was fine.
But then on the next two trips, I had the SSSS automatically put on my boarding pass, meaning that I then had to go through the enhanced screening.
Why? Was I on some list?
August 20, 2008 10:51 AM
What "credibility" does the TSA have? None with the majority of Americans who read story after story about 8-year olds on your "Terror" watch list, people with common names on the same list, and reporters being put on the list because they dare criticize you bozos.
You are - one and all - the most inept bunch of government slugs ever.
August 20, 2008 12:31 PM
But you will be put on a list if you visit another country for at least 15 years.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/19/AR2008081902811_pf.html
DHS/TSA is looking more and more like a certain WWII entity that was responsible for the death of millions.
It all starts with control of movement.
................................
Boy that sure reads wrong.
What I meant to say.
Enter or exit the country and DHS/TSA will put you on a list. The list will be maintained for 15 years.
They are also trying to have this list exempt from Privacy Act requirments and can share the list with other agencies, Law Enforcement Agencies, etc.
Also provisions to prevent a citizen from finding out why they are on the list, who their information was given to and much, much more from our commie friends at DHS/TSA.
Read the article!!
Call your congress critters today!!
August 20, 2008 4:21 PM
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/9559707/detail.html
Well, looks like you can be put on the 'list' for pretty much anything these days, just to satisfy a quota. Not the way to build trust with the American people. Yet you people continue to defend your ridiculous agency no matter what.
August 20, 2008 7:16 PM
Hey all, I've seen many comments throughout the blog about TSA not accepting retired military IDs due to the fact that they don’t have an expiration date.
The IDs are indeed allowed. At one time they were not, but that was changed in a recent SOP update.
I've contacted the web folks to make sure this is clear on our web page.
I've also contacted TSA training to let them know there is confusion in the ranks.
Thanks,
Bob
EoS Blog Team
August 20, 2008 7:38 PM
Blogger Bob wrote...
Hey all, I've seen many comments throughout the blog about TSA not accepting retired military IDs due to the fact that they don’t have an expiration date.
The IDs are indeed allowed. At one time they were not, but that was changed in a recent SOP update.
I've contacted the web folks to make sure this is clear on our web page.
I've also contacted TSA training to let them know there is confusion in the ranks.
Thanks Bob! :o)
Tom (One of the 5-6 regulars.)
August 20, 2008 7:45 PM
Bob, thanks for clearing that up, and thanks for asking your Web people to correct one instance of TSA providing inaccurate information. Next time someone tells you that we don't trust what's on your Web site, you'll know why.
For future reference, where are people supposed to look to find out what the current policy is? We can't be expected to follow your rules if you won't tell us where the definitive source of information about those rules is (i.e, where are the rules you require us to follow published?)
August 20, 2008 8:04 PM
Bob said...
Hey all, I've seen many comments throughout the blog about TSA not accepting retired military IDs due to the fact that they don’t have an expiration date.
The IDs are indeed allowed. At one time they were not, but that was changed in a recent SOP update.
I've contacted the web folks to make sure this is clear on our web page.
I've also contacted TSA training to let them know there is confusion in the ranks.
Thanks,
Bob
EoS Blog Team
.........................
Could we have that included with all of the other rules (laws) that we travelers must comply with in order to move through a U.S. Government checkpoint.
You do have a list of rules for travelers don't you?
If not how can we be expected to comply?
August 20, 2008 11:32 PM
Bob of the EOS Blog team wrote:
"The IDs are indeed allowed. At one time they were not, but that was changed in a recent SOP update.
"I've contacted the web folks to make sure this is clear on our web page.
"I've also contacted TSA training to let them know there is confusion in the ranks."
To be clear, Bob, I'm not asking for a look at your operating procedures. I don't particularly care about them as long as they have you operating in a safe and constitutional manner (I actually suspect that they have you operating in an unconstitutional manner, but that's an entirely different subject for another day). What I'm asking for is what rules you will impose upon me when I'm stopped by your people in an airport.
See, you're in a position to prevent me from, for instance, traveling from my home to our nation's Capitol in Washington, D.C. in the only manner that is practical today. In order to avoid losing this right, I need to be very familiar with your rules so that I can follow them. I simply cannot ensure that I am in compliance with your rules if you will not show me those rules. When the rules change, then you rewrite your internal procedures, then you issue a memo to notify managers to bring it up at the morning meeting with screeners, then eventually when someone prompts you, you go and update what little information about your rules that has been published, you leave those of us who are required -- unless we wish to give up our right to travel or simply risk dashing illegally through your checkpoint -- in the dark.
Think about it, Bob. You've said, in essence: "Oh, yeah, folks. Now that you mention it, we did change the rules that you are required to follow, and we made the applicable change to our own written procedures, but we didn't tell you about it, and we didn't tell all our own people about it, and we have since continued to indicate to you by way of our Web site (the one we repeatedly point to, both on our blog and at the airport, when you ask us what the rules are) that the old rule was still in place. Oops -- sorry! Hope you didn't miss any flights over this! I sent a memo to our Web team to have them stop misinforming you real soon now." How do you expect us to feel about that? Does that seem like the actions of the government of the people, by the people, for the people, that you were taught to believe in?
Let's consider this specific example. Someone who has only the form of documentation of his identity that is now acceptable but was not acceptable prior to this change would, if he was trying to follow your rules, have not attempted to fly, since last he heard, and as published on your Web site, people in his situation were not allowed to pass your checkpoints. That's just plain wrong, Bob.
If you're going to restrict people's freedom of movement, you need to be very clear about why you're doing it. Someone who follows your rules presumably won't have his freedom restricted by you, but you won't tell him what the rules are -- you keep him guessing, and expect him to show up at the airport and throw himself at the mercy of some security guard when he reaches your checkpoint. He never really knows if he's in compliance with your rules or not, because he has not seen the rules.
Is this sinking in? Please, you worry about your procedures, and we'll worry about our own. Just show us what you require of us so that we can ensure that our "procedures" are in compliance with the rules you impose on us.
Can anyone reading this think of any other example whereby we are required by law to follow arbitrary instructions from some government employee in order to avoid having our rights and liberties restricted? I don't mean directions like "stop. do not steal that woman's purse," as that is simply an order to follow the law. I mean a situation where we're told, "Here are some general ideas of what we want you to do, but the final authority is the man on the street. He'll tell you whether you're in compliance or not." The closest thing to that I can think of is a police officer in an emergency situation -- if he needs you to get out of his way so that he can pursue a fleeing suspect, you need to move. But airport screeners searching me and my belongings and interrogating me about my identity are not police officers, and it's not an emergency situation.
Bob, your agency is out of control. I suspect you're capable of understanding this, and I have a tiny bit of hope that you already do understand this and are trying to help expose it. I also fear that you are so wrapped up in your own agency's propaganda that you can't see the unconstitutionality of what your agency is doing. All I know to do about it is 1) keep talking and writing about it until more shake themselves out of the trance they're in and recognize what is happening, and 2) continue asking you: please show me the rules you require me to follow. Not guidelines, hints, and out-of-date Web pages, but the place where the official and legal definition of all the rules beyond those which we were already required to follow that you require us to follow when we attempt to pass through the "roadblocks" you have erected at our airports.
So how about it, Bob? You want us to follow your rules? Then let's see 'em.
August 21, 2008 12:11 PM
So how about it, Bob? You want us to follow your rules? Then let's see 'em.
August 21, 2008 12:11 PM
As an add-on from a fellow reader;
My parents do not have web access. They want your rules in paper please.
Or does TSA also require one to have internet access?
August 21, 2008 8:16 PM
Why don't the TSA employees at the airport accept DHS credentials as a valid form of identification for officers traveling on official government business? I was recently told that I could not use mine because "It ain't go no esspuration [sic] date on it."
August 22, 2008 10:22 AM
Yes, but will your name be put on the list (maintained by nobody apparently) if you politely refuse to show ID and politely request alternative identity verification?
You know, the process that will but won't but will but won't allow you to fly, depending on who you ask?
August 22, 2008 12:33 PM
I've made many posts critical of the TSA, and since you obviously have the ability to track my IP address, I'm sure I'll find my name on the 'watch list' very soon at the rate you're adding names. When that happens, I'll be sure to let you know.
Oh yea, almost forgot, I typically post using my 85-year-old grandmother's internet connection, and she never flies anyway, so I guess she's probably on the list but we'll never know so I suppose it doesn't really matter.
August 22, 2008 3:54 PM
Interesting article at Ars Technica with several good links...
Terror watchlist "upgrade" is "imploding," legislator says
Tom (1 of 5-6...)
August 26, 2008 12:45 AM
Is there any reason for a rational person to believe that any of the TSA activities makes us safer?
Would the TSA try to get the local police to interfere with someone handing out literature attacking (from the political activity point-of-view) the TSA?
What would the TSA response be to handing out instructions of legal activities that would tend to make life more difficult for the TSA and it’s employees?
What would the TSA response be if an employee recorded information on a person’s ID simply because the person wrote down the employee’s name?
September 27, 2008 5:35 PM
Is the TSA a federal agency?
November 13, 2008 2:03 AM
I wonder if the writer of this article is on "The List" now.
March 15, 2009 5:33 PM
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