OFFICE MEMORANDUM o STANFORD UNIVERSITY o OFFICE MEMORANDUM . STANFORD UNIVERSITY o OFFICE MEMORANDUM

DATE:  February 9, 1973

To :    File

FROM :   Joshua Lederberg

SUBJECT:  Avery; Conversation with Rollin Hotchkiss and Norton Zinder, February 6, 1973
     at Rockefeller University

  Rollin recalls that Harriett visited Rockefeller probably in July 1945
in order to interview Avery. He knows she also saw Dubos at that time and
has the impression that Dubos organized the entire arrangement. He had the
idea that Avery should be looking for geneticists and he knew Harriett
conceivably via Bernie Davis. Rollin himself joined the group the following
year. The date is not tied down absolutely. I have asked Rollin if he could
find some record of it. Since Harriett had pointed out Avery's paper to me
in January 1945 this would be consistent with the statement that she made
this approach "after reading his publication". However we have other evidence
that the work in Avery's lab was discussed in some detail at Columbia during
the years preceeding. For example, Dave Perkins recalls that Harriett gave
a seminar on the Griffith work before he left for the army which would have
been fall 1942. In addition, Dunn mentions that Dawson had given a seminar
presumably also during that general period.

  While there were undoubtedly other channels of communication between
Rockefeller and Columbia -- especially Mirsky and Pollister, Rollin finds
it hard to believe that Dobzhansky could have had a very meaningful direct
conversation with Avery and doubts that this would ever have taken place.
Avery's #manner was such that it would be very difficult to get through
except for someone who knew him intimately for a very long time.

  Dobzhansky quotes the monograph on the biology of pneumococcus, 1938,
by White et al. for the background information on the pneumococcus trans-
formation in his 1941 edition. He refers to Griffith, Dawson, Heidelberger,
Avery, and many other... This suggests that Dawson or Heidelberger might have
been the immediate inspirations to Dobzhansky in pointing out this work.

cc: Dr. Rollin Hotchkiss


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