Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h860kp724682; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:46:51 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 20:46:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <000a01c3740f$fa8dbbf0$18aab042@lop.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "ttweeton" <ttweeton@comcast.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9434] RE: Illiteracy X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 12392 Lines: 336 " What do you do as an adult with children of your own when you can't pass on the "family" language? I have run into this very situation. I cannot communicate with my relatives in another country in their language. I try so hard to make and keep contact but there are so many things I want to explain that I really can't. Tha language has been entirely lost in my family. entirely. I am so saddened by this situation. "How do they converse with the older generations?" They can't and I can't either very well. I "How is culture preserved when the language in which it was born is silenced? " This is really a very good and serious question. My question to all of you is , what should be a uniting factor in any country? If language will not unite us and Religion certainly will not unite us , Food will not unite us, Customs will not unite us because we all have our own , What will? What will happen when we begin to misunderstand one another because we cannot communicate well? Isn't that already happening? Should the country try to preserve anything of its culture? What should it be? Will we end up living in our own little ghettos, all speaking our own seperarte languages? OR, maybe the real question , instead should be, What makes a country??? Tanya Tweeton Adult ESOL Fort Lauderdale, Florida ----- Original Message ----- From: "Varshna Narumanchi-Jackson" <varshna@grandecom.net> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 5:21 PM Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9425] RE: Illiteracy > Your point assumes that either the child or the family wants English to be > the "first" language. What is so great about having developed oracy in your > "second"/"family" language when it isn't backed up by literacy? > > Who wants to be an adult whose understanding of her "second"/"family" > language stopped at age 3? How do you converse with your parents, with your > grandparents (as has been my experience), with aunts, uncles, and other > relatives who are more comfortable speaking in the "family" language? What > do you do as an adult with children of your own when you can't pass on the > "family" language? How do they converse with the older generations? > > How is culture preserved when the language in which it was born is silenced? > > > > on 9/5/03 12:51 PM, Susan Ryan at susanefl@hotmail.com wrote: > > > The whole point is for a toddler age, English would be his first language! > > Although we have many languages spoken in the U.S., English is the defining > > language and children born into it should be first language speakers in > > English. The other lanuage (family language spoken) would be their second > > language. They will be bilingual in reverse of their parents' generation. > > Susan > > > > > >> From: "kate.diggins" <kate.diggins@slc.k12.ut.us> > >> Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov > >> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > >> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9421] RE: Illiteracy > >> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:02:04 -0400 (EDT) > >> > >> On the other hand, childen need a rich first language. Without that, there > >> would be a lack of cognitive "hooks", metaphorically speaking, on which > >> to "hang" second language. > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------- Original Message ----------- > >> From: Gustav Kocsis <gkocsis@sfccnm.edu> > >> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > >> Sent: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:19:51 -0400 (EDT) > >> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9418] RE: Illiteracy > >> > >>> I so much agree. > >>> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Susan Ryan [mailto:susanefl@hotmail.com] > >>> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 8:02 AM > >>> To: Multiple recipients of list > >>> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9417] RE: Illiteracy > >>> > >>> Sylvan, I found your information very interesting and surprising. I > >> would > >>> have thought to start English with the toddlers class would be the > >>> best way to create English fluency rather than waiitng until they > >>> start school and come to it as a foreign language speaker. Susan > >>> > >>>> From: "Sylvan Rainwater" <sylvan@cccchs.org> > >>>> Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov > >>>> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > >>>> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9401] RE: Illiteracy > >>>> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:34:43 -0400 (EDT) > >>>> > >>>> Thanks for this excellent post. It is certainly true that when children > >>>> don't get good early education, they are at a disadvantage, regardless > >> of > >>>> what language they are trying to learn in. In the Head Start program I > >> work > >>>> with, it's sometimes interesting to compare the immigrant kids with the > >>>> Anglo kids here. The problems we are addressing are somewhat different, > >> but > >>>> with all kids (and the adults in our Family Literacy Program), we focus > >> on > >>>> literacy in developmentally appropriate ways. > >>>> > >>>> With the Pre-K children we work with, language development needs to be > >>>> primarily in the native language, gradually transitioning to more > >> English > >>>> as > >>>> time goes on. The 4-year-old classroom incorporates more English than > >> the > >>>> 3-year-old classroom. The Infant/Toddler classroom tries to be > >>>> predominantly > >>>> Spanish-speaking. A good solid grounding in native language development > >> is > >>>> the best foundation for learning English once children start school. > >>>> > >>>> With Anglo kids, obviously literacy and language development are > >> equally > >>>> critical, and sometimes just as difficult. We serve special needs > >> children, > >>>> too, of course, with various diagnoses of speech and/or developmental > >>>> delays, and that requires special creativity and techniques on the part > >> of > >>>> the teachers. We work with our Education Service District to get help > >> with > >>>> that. In addition, many of those kids are dealing with home situations > >> that > >>>> are absolutely horrendous -- drugs, abuse of all sorts, neglect, as > >> well as > >>>> basic illiteracy on several levels. All of that has to be addressed in > >> some > >>>> fashion, or nothing will change in the life of that child. You can > >> teach > >>>> them phonics all you want and send them off to kindergarten, and it > >> won't > >>>> help much. > >>>> > >>>> With adults, no matter what language they speak, if they haven't had a > >>>> thorough grounding in their native language -- in conversation, > >> grammar, > >>>> and/or literacy -- they are going to struggle with learning a new > >> language, > >>>> with basic job skills, and with figuring out how to teach their > >> children. > >>>> How can you ask a parent to read to a child, when the parent can't > >> read? > >>>> > >>>> I completely agree that adult literacy is a crucial issue in this > >> country, > >>>> and I continue to maintain that the single best way to improve the > >>>> education > >>>> of the children is to improve the education of the parents, especially > >> the > >>>> mother or primary caregiver. > >>>> > >>>> ------- > >>>> Sylvan Rainwater mailto:sylvan@cccchs.org > >>>> Program Managaer Family Literacy > >>>> Clackamas Co. Children's Commission / Head Start > >>>> Oregon City, OR USA > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> -----Original Message----- > >>>> From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Ken > >> Taber > >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 5:49 PM > >>>> To: Multiple recipients of list > >>>> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9390] Re: Accept English Only donation? > >>>> > >>>> Albert et al, > >>>> The Pew Hispanic Research identifies the problem that Adult ESL > >> Programs > >>>> face in this country. It also confirms that it is actually easier to > >> teach > >>>> the foreign-born K-12 student than it is the adult. These frustrations > >> lead > >>>> us to ask the ultimate question. How do we solve the problem? In fact, > >> the > >>>> same is true for the American in this country that does not get a good > >>>> early > >>>> education. Nationally, 22% of Americans are considered functionally > >>>> illiterate. That figure remains about the same. We used to have an > >>>> educational system that supported the industrial age where teaching > >> only > >>>> 80% > >>>> was acceptable. Now that we have entered the information age and their > >> are > >>>> less jobs in former industries, we must get near 100% literacy in this > >>>> country. And of those 22%, and in some cities, that figure is much > >> higher, > >>>> only 5% of those needing adult education services actually receive > >> them. > >>>> > >>>> The only answer the government has in more accountability but the > >> numbers > >>>> still have not changed. Even with a great title like the "No Child Left > >>>> Behind Act," we are losing the battle of adult literacy in this > >> country. > >>>> The > >>>> problem as was pointed out by some is adult literacy, and not just for > >> the > >>>> foreign-born, but for all Americans. There are American-born US > >> citizens > >>>> who > >>>> speak English only that are illiterate. We have become experts at > >> pointing > >>>> the finger. We have a lot of research. What we need are applicable > >>>> solutions. We know the problems, they have not changed. Our current > >>>> solutions have not work. > >>>> > >>>> I have made some observations that deal with what all teachers should > >> be > >>>> doing. Teachers need high expectations for all their students. Teachers > >>>> also > >>>> need to know the how best to teach the diversity of students in their > >>>> classroom. This requires staff development. Sometimes, it is simply the > >>>> case > >>>> of real research bang applied to an old problem. > >>>> > >>>> I actually had a principal from another school that told me that > >> "Research > >>>> shows that English-Only programs (for LEP students) were better." This > >> myth > >>>> has reached not only the some of the classrooms in my district but has > >>>> reached its administration as well. These principals were sold a bill > >> of > >>>> goods from the English-Only Movement and are calling it research. The > >> fact > >>>> is the federal law allows for almost any program that can show results. > >>>> However, it does not allow for an English Submersion Model, a sink or > >> swim > >>>> approach or dead end approach. > >>>> > >>>> There are some states that interpret the federal law to mean that they > >> can > >>>> run an English-Only Approach with no staff development of their > >> teachers. > >>>> When this principal made this comment, I asked whether this district > >> had an > >>>> English-Only Approach? The coordinator (with no ESOL training) who I > >> had > >>>> spoken to about the law said we have an Structured English Immersion > >>>> Approach which we didn't because this approach requires a highly > >> trained > >>>> staff. We may have had a Structured English Immersion Approach on paper > >> but > >>>> we had an English-Only or English Submersion Approach in reality. > >>>> > >>>> The SC State House tried to write a bill (H3703) last year limiting LEP > >>>> instruction to only the first two years foreign-born students arrive in > >>>> this > >>>> country and mandating a Sheltered English Immersion Approach. They > >> claimed > >>>> in their bill that English could be learned fast. Sheltered English > >>>> Immersion is perhaps the least recommended approach but also the least > >>>> costly. The only good part of the bill was that the state actually > >> realized > >>>> that it had a constitutional duty to teach these students. The bill > >> never > >>>> made it out of the SC House but it was interesting to see how > >> legislatures > >>>> don't understand the real problem or the legal history of LEP programs > >> but > >>>> most of all they do not understand that English-Only laws may be a > >> civil > >>>> rights violation in an educational setting. > >>>> > >>>> Ken Taber > >>>> kentaber@inetgenesis.com > >>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> _________________________________________________________________ > >>> Fast, faster, fastest: Upgrade to Cable or DSL today! > >>> https://broadband.msn.com > >> ------- End of Original Message ------- > >> > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Send and receive larger attachments with Hotmail Extra Storage. > > http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > > > > >
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Mar 11 2004 - 12:16:24 EST