Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h8594U716935; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 05:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 05:04:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <002a01c3738c$24c8a210$18aab042@lop.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "ttweeton" <ttweeton@comcast.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9412] Re: Accept English Only donation? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 5904 Lines: 134 "The question is the same question: why don't these people change to become like us? My question is: why should they? They have to figure out how to navigate this huge change in their own way." NO Sylvia , immigrants do NOT have to nagivate the system alone. That is precisely why ESL classes are set up for them, to HELP them "navigate the system." If you look at the ESL standards we have developed for our classes in our state of Florida , all the benchmarks deal with ways to survive in our country WHILE learning English. Our thrust is not to teach grammer out of context any more. Our thrust is to help immigrants to learn HOW to live here. I am sure that most states have very similar standards by now which teach valuable information about our society. Examples: Our standards include benchmarks on: Personal Information Time and Money concepts Employment issues Health and Nutrition issues Transportatoin and Travel Consumer Education Safety issues etc.. Why should anyone NOT want the immigrants to be knowledgeable of our way of life and be like us?? No, they DON"T have to "navigate the system in their own way". There IS help out there. Tanya ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sylvan Rainwater" <sylvan@cccchs.org> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 5:30 PM Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9407] Re: Accept English Only donation? > -----Original Message----- > From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov] On Behalf Of ttweeton > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 1:27 PM > > You wrote: > I really become upset at the thought that some of us believe that it is ok > to live here and not have to or at least TRY to learn the language. I DO > understand all the difficulties of foreigner, But I just can't understand > why, timidly, we even ASK this question.? It should be taken for granted > ,that people coming here, will make a concerted effort to do so. > > > > My response: > One of my students last year had been in this country for many years (more > than 10, I think) without learning any English. She had 3 years of education > in her native country. She had at least 4 children, some school-age, and two > in our program who both had diagnosed speech and developmental disorders. > Her husband had 5 years of education, and spoke a fair amount of English, > because he worked outside the home and had taken a few ESL classes at the > college. But his literacy was poor. > > They came from Mexico, and their native language was not Spanish. That > probably explains a lot of why their education level was so low. I imagine > they didn't do all that well in school. Their work ethic is strong, and they > followed traditional roles for quite a while -- he worked outside the home, > and she worked very hard in the home cleaning, raising the children, > cooking, etc. I imagine she developed networks with other Spanish-speaking > people and was able to do some shopping, etc., but not much else. > > When I first saw her, I had her fill out a form in Spanish, and she had a > hard time with it. Whenever that happens, I suspect that there may be > literacy issues, possibly vision issues, possibly learning disabilities -- > all of those have surfaced in my classroom. All of them are barriers to > learning English, not to mention other things. > > But last year she came to our program and spent a year in our classrooms. > Her husband came sometimes, but because of his work and college ESL class > schedule wasn't there all the time. Both of them worked very hard. During > the middle of the year, they bought a house, and unfortunately moved over > the county line, so they won't continue with us this year. They both > improved their English, and she told me that for the first time, she felt > she was learning things. She still doesn't *speak* English to me, but she > understands me a lot. Her reading and writing are still poor, but improving. > She has learned that she *can* learn. She and her husband have learned some > good ways to work with their children, who also improved greatly during the > year. > > One of the difficulties, especially for women, is that they don't see > themselves as having a life outside of their home and family (and possibly > the church). They were able to live their whole lives that way, as their > mothers and grandmothers did, and sometimes don't realize for a while that > for women in this country things are different. > > The question is the same question: why don't these people change to become > like us? My question is: why should they? They have to figure out how to > navigate this huge change in their own way. > > It's not that they don't want to learn English. Every single immigrant I've > ever talked to says they want to learn English, that's the most important > thing for them. *Every* one. I've never met an immigrant yet who said they > didn't think it mattered whether they learn English or not. My point is that > that's really not the issue here. > > It's not just a matter of opportunities or access, though those are huge > issues. It's not even just a matter of time and effort, though those are > also large. It also has to do with differences in world-view, how a student > sees one's self in the world. It has to do with self-efficacy, and how > that's interpreted by each individual person. In Mexico, women are valued > for their work in the home, and they have their own sense of power as a > result of that work. To figure out that this is not true here takes a while. > To figure out how to translate those skills in the home to skills in a > classroom or on a job takes a while. > > Well, I could go on, but this is enough for one post. > > ------- > Sylvan Rainwater mailto:sylvan@cccchs.org > Program Managaer Family Literacy > Clackamas Co. Children's Commission / Head Start > Oregon City, OR USA > > >
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Mar 11 2004 - 12:16:23 EST