Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h841KN716488; Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 3 Sep 2003 21:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <FLEIJPFJGNEBFCGDMABPEEIPCIAA.john_kamplain@albanyparkcommunitycenter.org> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "John Kamplain" <john_kamplain@albanyparkcommunitycenter.org> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9391] RE: Message from the UK X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 6586 Lines: 121 My two cents worth: 1. We require native born students to pass a constitution test in high school in order to graduate. If they haven't in high school, they're usually required in college to do so. Why is it a bad thing to ask the same of people wanting to become citizens? I don't know if it should be required or not, I can see the pros and cons on both sides. A the same time, I'm not sure it's fascism to ask people to have a modicum of knowledge about the country their living in. Our founding fathers would have considered this insuring good citizenship. As teachers of English as a Second Language we should be concerned that our students are being taught civics. If you study the scholarship around EFF, you'll see that civic awareness is a big issue. Is fascism to want people to be educated? If they're to become citizens, they're going to have the option to vote. Isn't it a good thing to help them learn what that means? 2. As for "English Only" offering you money: Take the money so long as they don't put conditions on it and/or politicize the donation. If they do, send it back. Everyone has some motive for donating money, as long as that motivation doesn't interfere with the way you want to teach, then take it and run. 3. Joe Little may have went about this discussion in a way that was offensive to you, but something that he brought up (i.e. government funding) bears some considerations and was lost in all the brouhaha. If you think that government regulations for receiving govt. money is "fascist", then don't take the money! It's interesting that we require the govt. to spend tax dollars on multi-lingual documents, services, and programs, but ask nothing in return on. My great-grandparents severely scolded anyone in the family who spoke Italian at home. They were in America now and if they wanted to make something of themselves, they needed to start using English. They learned English and how to interact using English in American society, but didn't forget, ignore, or disavow our Italian heritage. But we were Americans. And no, we didn't use that asinine hyphenated ***-American stuff either. 4. I think we should all take a step back and think about when we use the word fascism. It's a pretty strong word, one that I don't think applies here. The U.S. requires a citizenship test. That test is going to get a little harder. The same govt. that requires passing of the test also provides free educational assistance to pass that test. Does that really sound like Nazi Germany? The govt. is asking people to have some idea of what the hell we're all about and I don't think that's a bad thing. If you want to be a productive member of this country, you should know this stuff. If you want prospective citizens to take a proactive stance in how their lives are run, then they should be learning this stuff anyway. 5. I don't want to force people to learn English, but I don't want to force Americans to pay for that option of ignorance, either. You don't want to require people to have any knowledge of this country and/or its language upon entry? Fine. You want to have an open border? Want to do away with English requirements altogether? Great, I'm all for it. I say open the borders tomorrow, don't force anything on anyone and let them come as they are. But then don't force American taxpayers to pay to baby-sit them either. > -----Original Message----- > From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Fiona > Frank > Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 6:17 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9389] Message from the UK > > > Dear NIFL ESOL listmembers > > (copy to Mary Hamilton and Karin Tusting at Lancaster University > Literacy Research Centre, Ursula Howard at the National Research and > Development Centre, Jane Mace of RaPAL - Research and Practice in Adult > Literacy) > > It has been very interesting to read your latest very heated > correspondence about immigrants and English language teaching being > 'imposed' on them, on this NIFL ESOL listserve. I've been lurking on > this list for a while but I want to hear from you about your opinions on > a new issue in the UK so I'm putting pen to paper (as it were) finally. > I worked for several years in UK workplace literacy development (and was > an active member of the NIFL Workplace list). I have recently left the > adult literacy field to start a PhD in a different field - I will be > looking at the transmission of Jewish culture through the generations > over the last 100 years since the big wave of Jewish immigrants arrived > from Eastern Europe at the turn of the last century. I'll be mainly > concentrating on those immigrants who went to Scotland, because that's > where my grandfather arrived, from Lithuania via Frankfurt. > > In England we have just been informed by our esteemed government that a > commission which has been meeting for a year has recommended that > applicants for British Nationality will have to pass a test based on > their knowledge of British institutions, English language and British > culture. Read more in > http://www.guardian.co.uk/britain/article/0,2763,1034966,00.html. And > if they don't pass the test they won't get their passport... > > Well, I know that my grandfather, who was in his 40s when he came here, > would never have passed a written test in English - but that he worked > all the hours there were making money to send my father and my aunt to > university.... My father became a doctor, and my aunt, who's 95 now, was > a pretty well known artist in Glasgow (see http://www.hannahfrank.org.uk > for examples of her drawings and sculpture which has been exhibited in > the Royal Academy....) Isn't that what immigration, especially in these > troubled times, is about - to get away from persecution or poor > opportunities and hopefully, to make a better life for your children? > > We have recently had a literacy test enforced by the UK government for > all literacy learners. This was opposed by most literacy teachers > though we were told by the government that 'the learners liked it'. > What is your experience of citizenship tests? Is my kneejerk opinion, > that it's an erosion of human rights to withhold a passport from someone > if they fail to pass an English test, misinformed? > > Please let me (and the other people I've circulated this to) hear your > opinions, so we can feed them back to the UK literacy and esol community > and help to inform our own debate. > Thanks and best wishes > Fiona Frank > (fionafrank@soundboard.f9.co.uk)
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