Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h87ALe721527; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 06:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 06:21:40 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <011001c37528$cdb0bf00$18aab042@lop.com> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "ttweeton" <ttweeton@comcast.net> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9444] RE: Illiteracy X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 8914 Lines: 276 "In Germany, the "uniting" factor of the country is the > language and the ethnicity" Precisely Antje.The language in Germany is the uniting factor. Ethnicity doesn't have to be. Tanya ----- Original Message ----- From: "Antje Meissner" <antjemeissner@yahoo.com> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Saturday, September 06, 2003 11:01 AM Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9442] RE: Illiteracy > Tanya, > I like your questions. > > I came to this country from Germany three years ago > and worked with immigrants in my country for many > years before. In my mind immigrants are a good mirror > for the "culture" and "idea" of a country, and I > learned an interesting thing from the immigrants I > work with here and there: > > . Immigrants often have a > hard time feeling at home, because no matter how hard > they try, if they look differently, dress differently, > eat differently, even if they speak the language, they > will never be fully accepted. So many immigrants move > to Germany to find a job and make some money and keep > dreaming of returning home to their countries one day. > > When I came here, I was certain immigrants here would > feel the same way. But the students in my program in > Tallahassee feel very different: They love America, > that is, the "idea" of America. For them America is > not an ethnicity, a language, a place to make some > money in, but it is often the promise of a better > life, a better future for their children, a hope for > counting as an individual and not fall prey to > dictators, wars, famines etc. Now, a lot of these > people work in menial jobs, are exploited, poor and > struggle, but this is their hope and their reason for > being here. > > I believe strongly that the "idea" of what a country > wants to be can "unify" that country and mankind as a > whole. A mutual respect for each others struggles, a > helping hand from those who already have a lot to > those are trying to get there, and even though "love" > sounds like a strong word for a German ( for us "like" > is about as emotional as we can be, but after three > years I "americanize" more and more), I think Ken has > a point. > > I even believe that this is a lesson Europe has to > learn and maybe maybe maybe .... America could lead? > > I hope this makes sense. My written English is often > not that great. > Antje Meissner > > > > > --- ttweeton <ttweeton@comcast.net> wrote: > > " What > > do you do as an adult with children of your own when > > you can't pass on the > > "family" language? > > > > I have run into this very situation. I cannot > > communicate with my relatives > > in another country in their language. I try so hard > > to make and keep contact > > but there are so many things I want to explain that > > I really can't. Tha > > language has been entirely lost in my family. > > entirely. I am so saddened > > by this situation. > > > > "How do they converse with the older generations?" > > They can't and I can't either very well. > > > > > > I "How is culture preserved when the language in > > which it was born is > > silenced? " > > This is really a very good and serious question. > > > > My question to all of you is , what should be a > > uniting factor in any > > country? If language will not unite us and Religion > > certainly will not > > unite us , Food will not unite us, Customs will not > > unite us because we all > > have our own , What will? What will happen when we > > begin to misunderstand > > one another because we cannot communicate well? > > Isn't that already > > happening? Should the country try to preserve > > anything of its culture? What > > should it be? Will we end up living in our own > > little ghettos, all speaking > > our own seperarte languages? OR, maybe the real > > question , instead should > > be, What makes a country??? > > Tanya Tweeton > > Adult ESOL > > Fort Lauderdale, Florida > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Varshna Narumanchi-Jackson" > > <varshna@grandecom.net> > > To: "Multiple recipients of list" > > <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 5:21 PM > > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9425] RE: Illiteracy > > > > > > > Your point assumes that either the child or the > > family wants English to be > > > the "first" language. What is so great about > > having developed oracy in > > your > > > "second"/"family" language when it isn't backed up > > by literacy? > > > > > > Who wants to be an adult whose understanding of > > her "second"/"family" > > > language stopped at age 3? How do you converse > > with your parents, with > > your > > > grandparents (as has been my experience), with > > aunts, uncles, and other > > > relatives who are more comfortable speaking in the > > "family" language? > > What > > > do you do as an adult with children of your own > > when you can't pass on the > > > "family" language? How do they converse with the > > older generations? > > > > > > How is culture preserved when the language in > > which it was born is > > silenced? > > > > > > > > > > > > on 9/5/03 12:51 PM, Susan Ryan at > > susanefl@hotmail.com wrote: > > > > > > > The whole point is for a toddler age, English > > would be his first > > language! > > > > Although we have many languages spoken in the > > U.S., English is the > > defining > > > > language and children born into it should be > > first language speakers in > > > > English. The other lanuage (family language > > spoken) would be their > > second > > > > language. They will be bilingual in reverse of > > their parents' > > generation. > > > > Susan > > > > > > > > > > > >> From: "kate.diggins" > > <kate.diggins@slc.k12.ut.us> > > > >> Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov > > > >> To: Multiple recipients of list > > <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > >> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9421] RE: Illiteracy > > > >> Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 13:02:04 -0400 (EDT) > > > >> > > > >> On the other hand, childen need a rich first > > language. Without that, > > there > > > >> would be a lack of cognitive "hooks", > > metaphorically speaking, on which > > > >> to "hang" second language. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> ---------- Original Message ----------- > > > >> From: Gustav Kocsis <gkocsis@sfccnm.edu> > > > >> To: Multiple recipients of list > > <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > >> Sent: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 10:19:51 -0400 (EDT) > > > >> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9418] RE: Illiteracy > > > >> > > > >>> I so much agree. > > > >>> > > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > > >>> From: Susan Ryan [mailto:susanefl@hotmail.com] > > > >>> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 8:02 AM > > > >>> To: Multiple recipients of list > > > >>> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9417] RE: Illiteracy > > > >>> > > > >>> Sylvan, I found your information very > > interesting and surprising. I > > > >> would > > > >>> have thought to start English with the > > toddlers class would be the > > > >>> best way to create English fluency rather than > > waiitng until they > > > >>> start school and come to it as a foreign > > language speaker. Susan > > > >>> > > > >>>> From: "Sylvan Rainwater" <sylvan@cccchs.org> > > > >>>> Reply-To: nifl-esl@nifl.gov > > > >>>> To: Multiple recipients of list > > <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > > > >>>> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9401] RE: Illiteracy > > > >>>> Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 15:34:43 -0400 (EDT) > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Thanks for this excellent post. It is > > certainly true that when > > children > > > >>>> don't get good early education, they are at a > > disadvantage, > > regardless > > > >> of > > > >>>> what language they are trying to learn in. In > > the Head Start program > > I > > > >> work > > > >>>> with, it's sometimes interesting to compare > > the immigrant kids with > > the > > > >>>> Anglo kids here. The problems we are > > addressing are somewhat > > different, > > > >> but > > > >>>> with all kids (and the adults in our Family > > Literacy Program), we > > focus > > > >> on > > > >>>> literacy in developmentally appropriate ways. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> With the Pre-K children we work with, > > language development needs to > > be > > > >>>> primarily in the native language, gradually > > transitioning to more > > > >> English > > > >>>> as > > > >>>> time goes on. The 4-year-old classroom > > incorporates more English than > > > >> the > > > >>>> 3-year-old classroom. The Infant/Toddler > > classroom tries to be > > > >>>> predominantly > > > >>>> Spanish-speaking. A good solid grounding in > > native language > > development > > > >> is > > > >>>> the best foundation for learning English once > > children start school. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> With Anglo kids, obviously literacy and > > language development are > > > >> equally > > > === message truncated === > > > __________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Thu Mar 11 2004 - 12:16:24 EST