Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h4MKpIC15893; Thu, 22 May 2003 16:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 22 May 2003 16:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <secce371.060@tvcc-mail.tvcc.cc> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Mona Curtis" <MCurtis@tvcc.cc> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9022] Re: Presentation X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent 6.0.1 Status: O Content-Length: 2756 Lines: 77 This is the model for people who are lucky enough to have had a bilingual education. The situation most of my students find themselves in is that they don't have academic proficiency in their native language and now they are being asked to have academic proficiency in a second language. >>> AndresM@epcc.edu 05/22/03 02:21PM >>> Sue: I agree, and this would support Cummins model pretty well even for adults. What happens is that people acquire BICS in their native language and then they acquire CALPS in their native language. Once you have CALPS in a native language, you can acquire CALPS in a second language without BICS. Cummins used this argument for children to begin acquiring CALPS in their native language as soon as they started school. Hence, there would not be an academic gap with the English speakers. The idea was that non native speakers would begin to acquire academic skills at the same pace as native speakers, but in the native language. This way, when they transition to English classes, they will have the same academic knowledge as native speakers. The idea is that once you know math in chinese, you know it in any language and if you are a doctor in france, you are a doctor in japan (this is an oversimplification to illustrate a point). Of course, this applies only if there are no other forces that shape learning, such as sociological, cultural, economic, resistance, etc. As Elsa points out, it is much more complicated than just looking at BICS vs CALPS. Andres >>> <Sandees32605@aol.com> 05/22/03 01:55PM >>> In a message dated 5/22/03 12:18:24 PM, AndresM@epcc.edu writes: << Before people get CALPS in a second language they must get BICS in that language. >> This is the Jim Cummins doctrine so far as the experience of children's second language learning, but.......... some research - and surely my own experience with adult learners - indicates that many academic types among adult ELLs read academic English fairly well ....... before they acquire BICS. The reason is that these people have little to no experience with spoken English in the native country, but at the same time are using English-language textbooks particularly in the sciences. This phenomena may also explain the sometimes huge disparity between some ELL's high TOEFL/GRE scores and quite low levels in listening/speaking. The high test scores would seem to indicate academic readiness; however, without the necessary BICS, these students almost inevitably have a very rough time with academic courses in the US where listening/speaking skills are as important as reading/vocabulary levels. How about the rest of you working with adult students? Similar experiences? Sue Sandeen ESOL Gainesville, FL USA
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