Return-Path: <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Received: from literacy (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with SMTP id h84MjY726736; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:45:34 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <000b01c37334$e104fd00$f84cdc42@trudy> Errors-To: listowner@literacy.nifl.gov Reply-To: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Originator: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Sender: nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov Precedence: bulk From: "Ken Taber" <kentaber@inetgenesis.com> To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9410] Re: Accept English Only donation? X-Listprocessor-Version: 6.0c -- ListProcessor by Anastasios Kotsikonas X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; Status: O Content-Length: 6451 Lines: 139 "Basically, would forcing someone (especially children) to learn English (if they live in the states) really hurt them?" -Tanya Tanya, I am not saying that anyone should be given a free lunch or that K-12 students should not learn English. In fact, we have a constitutional duty to so. Adults, that's a different story. We have American-educated English-Only Adult Citizens that could not pass an English Proficiency Test. Both sides of the argument want students to be taught English (especially children.) One question in this debate is whether an ESL Teacher can teach and whether a student learning the English language will be denied the right to speak in the student's primary language when states enact English Only laws. We are not simply just talking about the merits of children to learn the English language, we are talking about whether students and teachers have a right to speak in their native tongue. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with that? Another issue is whether the English Only Movement is not allowing any form of bilingual education and forcing a method of teaching ESL students in English Only by enacting English Only Laws. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with that? There is another issue in the UK where those seeking a visa must pass a test before entering this country on a visa in which I believe involves both language proficiency and other topics selected by UK officials. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with that? In a civilized society that cherishes its freedom, how do you suggest we "force" any adult to learn English when 22% of all Americans are illiterate and only 5% of those needing services receive them. Are you saying those that have a better proficiency of the English language are more superior than those that have an accent or can't read? Do the literate have more constitutional rights than the illiterate? The sad fact is we need immigrants in our work force. Businesses recruit immigrants and the government looks the other way. The other reason we need sound solutions to these problems is that we live in a global society and a global economy. Just like many of our manufacturing jobs are going elsewhere, many European and Asian jobs are coming here. If we are hostile to those who speak languages other than English, we are hurting our economy more than we helping it. Therefore, if the influx of foreign born citizens are here to stay, then doesn't it stand to reason we need learn the best ways of teaching them English. Is the only motivational tool we have as educators to help our students learn English the fear tactics of English Only Laws. There must be a better way to find a balanced approach. The legislation of fear, force, and retaliation does not seem to be an American answer to this problem. Language is learned best in an environment where all students are wanted and respected and in a classroom where students are as stress-free as possible. We will not get a student to even attempt to learn our language by putting a gun to their head. Trying to teach the foreign born student is much like being a missionary to a foreign country. It takes loving patience. I had a pastor once who was a missionary to Lebanon who said there were basically two ways to motivate people: one is through fear, the other, love. So let me ask you, If you were in foreign country, which one would you prefer the government used to motivate you to learn their language? Would your strategy help or hurt? Ken Taber kentaber@inetgenesis.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "ttweeton" <ttweeton@comcast.net> To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 4:27 PM Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9402] Re: Accept English Only donation? > Basically, would forcing someone (especially children) to learn English (if > they live in the states) really hurt them? > > I really become upset at the thought that some of us believe that it is ok > to live here and not have to or at least TRY to learn the language. I DO > understand all the difficulties of foreigner, But I just can't understand > why, timidly, we even ASK this question.? It should be taken for granted > ,that people coming here, will make a concerted effort to do so. Yes of > course it may be more difficult for some than for others. This is > understood, it may take some more time than for others, but not even to > TRY?? Why should this be thought of as acceptable?? Do we ask nothing of > these people in return for the priviledge of being able to be here? NO, > there is no free lunch for anybody . I just don't believe in the "no holds > barred, anything you want to do " theory. It should be A GIVEN that > people will at least make the effort! That we even ask if it is OK, says > something about how far the majority of the prevailing attitudes on this > line seem to be leaning towards the left politically. Tanya > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tyler E. Johnson" <yakup2@ht.rol.cn.net> > To: "Multiple recipients of list" <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > Sent: Thursday, September 04, 2003 10:40 AM > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:9395] Re: Accept English Only donation? > > > > "English-Only Laws anywhere in this country are a threat to Bilingual > > Education everywhere!" > > > > Dear All, > > Allow me to play the Devil's advocate for a moment and note that, although > I am > > also disgusted by the U.S. educational system's > > attitude toward the learning of languages- even proper English- think of > this. > > > > Because the majority of the American population has never had real contact > with > > other cultures (e.g. living in a foreign country), > > most do not know how to deal with people who don't speak english. In > Europe or > > even here in China where they are accustomed > > to people who don't speak a word of their language, and they perhaps don't > speak > > a word of English, people know how to deal > > with these situations. > > On the flip side, your average Joe in the grocery store or at the DMV > likely has > > no idea how to piece together a conversation from > > a less-than-fluent foreigner, or a very hard time doing so. > > > > Basically, would forcing someone (especially children) to learn English > (if > > they live in the states) really hurt them? > > > > In most other countries (especially Europe) I don't think this priciple > would > > apply. But in the good ol' U.S..... > > > >
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