Received: from mailhost.bcv1.ameritech.net (mailhost1-bcvloh.bcvloh.ameritech.net [66.73.20.42]) by literacy.nifl.gov (8.10.2/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h26NpfP08364 for <nifl-esl@nifl.gov>; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 18:51:41 -0500 (EST) Received: from LabK ([67.38.127.158]) by mailhost.bcv1.ameritech.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20030306235141.JPWV348.mailhost.bcv1.ameritech.net@LabK> for <nifl-esl@nifl.gov>; Thu, 6 Mar 2003 18:51:41 -0500 From: "John Kamplain" <john_kamplain@albanyparkcommunitycenter.org> To: <nifl-esl@nifl.gov> Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8775] RE: Fw: Re: oil and war Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 17:53:51 -0600 Message-ID: <FLEIJPFJGNEBFCGDMABPKEIICEAA.john_kamplain@albanyparkcommunitycenter.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <019e01c2e452$8d071ce0$95255544@ewndsr01.nj.comcast.net> Status: O Content-Length: 6829 Lines: 163 Yes it is. Tell you what, you're a teacher, do some reading in context. You're quoting my reply to a missive whose thesis says that we are going to war over oil. My reply to said missive is that if, in fact, this impending war were only about war, we would've gone to war and already taken Iraq. Notice, I don't endorse the taking of Iraq for oil, though. Nor do I endorse the taking of oil. Sorry, but you've yet again you've managed to misrepresent me. Interestingly, you've omitted commenting on the rest of my post. Is this self-censorship? > -----Original Message----- > From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Ujwala > Samant > Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 5:38 PM > To: Multiple recipients of list > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8773] Fw: Re: oil and war > > > Mr. Kamplain, I believe this message is from you? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: John Kamplain <john_kamplain@albanyparkcommunitycenter.org> > To: Multiple recipients of list <nifl-esl@literacy.nifl.gov> > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:44 AM > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8717] Re: oil and war > > > > and if this "impending" war was only about oil, we would've > already taken > > Iraq. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: nifl-esl@nifl.gov [mailto:nifl-esl@nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Lisa > > > Pierce > > > Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 9:34 AM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8709] Re: oil and war > > > > > > > > > I would advise against teaching students (and spreading around in > > > general) > > > hearsay that has no factual basis. > > > The potential for war is about weapons vs. oil but it is not > to prevent > a > > > deterrent to American intervention. If that were the case we would be > at > > > war with every nation. > > > > > > This is all getting very tiresome (this exchange of charged opinions > > > without factual base and with no helpful ideas for classroom use). I > > > appreciate your question Marlene. I hope others form the list > > > will provide > > > useful information and ideas. both the US and Iraq are in a difficult > > > place. They both risk losing power by backing down from their current > > > stances. Power is made up in a large part by perception. Saddam > doesn't > > > have as much power as he would like and more than the US would like. > The > > > question for Saddam is how he can keep his current level of > > > perceived power > > > and avoid war. The question for the US and other UN nations, > is how can > > > they ensure that Saddam does not keep and build weapons of mass > > > destruction > > > (that would threaten the stability of the region and the > safety of many) > > > without war. You might have a class discussion on issues of power > > > (international or local): what is power? how does one gain > > > power? What's > > > an appropriate use of power? > > > > > > Lisa > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Ken Todd [SMTP:kentodd@UDel.Edu] > > > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2003 9:34 AM > > > To: Multiple recipients of list > > > Subject: [NIFL-ESL:8690] Re: dynamics of this list > > > > > > The question of oil concerns long term strategic control rather than > > > immediate prices. A government with control over state-owned oil > > > resources could withhold those supplies as a means to securing its own > > > national interests. Privatized oil (an unspoken but safe to assume > > > long-term US/EU/Japan goal) in a country with a client government > > > guarantees uninterrupted supplies as well as a greater U.S./EU/Japan > > > influence on levels of production/price. > > > Of course, interests not solely derived from oil figure largely in the > > > prosecution of this war, but they do not seem to me to lend themselves > > > to a pro-American argument. The military strategy document prepared by > > > experts from Bush's political circle before he was elected twice > > > explicitly addresses the need to invade Iraq. It proposes > one, and only > > > one, reason. The development of Iraqi weapons (please note, not the > > > weapons it currently has) would provide a deterrent to American > > > intervention in the region. Thus, the war aims to enforce the general > > > principle that no country has the right to means of defense against > > > American intervention. (Please remember, this claim comes > directly from > > > the Bush document. If anyone finds it distasteful, direct > your comments > > > to the president, not to me). Of course, the choice of a site on which > > > to demonstrate this principle is heavily influenced by the presence > > > there of massive oil reserves. > > > > > > marlene smith wrote: > > > > > > > > Actually, I was hoping to get some Pro-American stuff > > > > on this list. I haven't seen any yet. > > > > > > > > Part of my mandate is 'settlement' and Anti-American > > > > sentiment based on untruths is not conducive to a > > > > 'happy' life in Canada. > > > > > > > > So far I have been able to supply facts which cause > > > > these students to rethink their negative attitudes but > > > > I do not have the knowledge I should to answer the > > > > 'oil' issue some Arabic students keep bringing up. > > > > > > > > How could it be about oil? Aren't the prices fixed > > > > and what would bombing do for oil except increases our > > > > prices as just the talk of it has already > > > > significantly done so in Canada? > > > > > > > > Isn't is part of our responsibility to attempt to > > > > diffuse potentially dangerous hatreds or at least not > > > > add fuel to the fire? > > > > > > > > Marlene Smith > > > > ESL Teacher > > > > Ontario, Canada > > > > > > > > --- Charles Jannuzi <b_rieux@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > It is regrettable that any attempt to discuss > > > > > serious issues with political and social > > > > > implications are censored on this > > > > > list--censorship arising from the concerns of a > > > > > handful of conservative and religious crybabies. > > > > > It is hypocritical of the list owner and > > > > > moderator to criticize anyone for substantive but > > > > > challenging posts, when all such criticism does > > > > > is cater to the very clique that has constantly > > > > > initiated the personal attacks. In short, this > > > > > list is now a repressive wasteland, like much of > > > > > the political and social climate of the current > > > > > US. > > > > > > > > > > Charles Jannuzi > > > > > Fukui, Japan > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > > Do you Yahoo!? > > > > Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more > > > > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ > > >
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