I am in total agreement with you in regard to empowering the student.  In the 
state of Florida, transition services must be addressed on the student's IEP 
beginning at age 14, earlier if appropriate, and there is a requirement in 
State Board of Education Rules that says all students with disabilities must be 
taught self-determination skills.  I really don' t think that support staff 
like to keep the power to themselves.  What I do think is that the support staff 
is so involved in being sure that the paperwork is completed properly in order 
to avoid due process and/or audit findings, that they loose track of the 
purpose of an IEP and how important it is to have total involvement of the student 
in the process.
 
I think that the issue that Beverly was referring to, waiving requirements, 
has to deal with the Florida Comprehensive Assessment Test (FCAT) that is 
required of all students receiving a standard high school diploma.  This 
requirement can be waived for students with disabilities provided that they have taken 
the test twice, failed, and participated in remediation courses.  The reason 
this state statue was put in to place was specifically for those students whose 
Transition IEP indicated the need for accommodations that could not be 
provided on the FCAT
 
Patrick Mulvihill, Consultant
The Transition Center at the University of Florida
 
In a message dated 11/7/2007 4:48:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
robinschwarz1 at aol.com writes:

NO, we should not be thinking accommodations, but rather how to supply 
information to a learner on different ways to learn and what works best for him or 
herself.  One previous question was about helping students transitioning into 
the college/postsecondary arena switch from having accommodations prescribed to 
asking for them.  From work I did with students on IEPs,  it seems that if 
the process of IEPs were followed as closely as it should be, the learner would 
be an active part of the IEP process very early on, and the transition 
process, which involves the learner taking more control over the accommodation 
issues, would begin at age 14--or sooner, if staff is sincere about wanting students 
to learn to succeed--not just succeed in learning.   Thus by the time a 
student is ready for a post secondary setting, he or she would already be 
accustomed to requesting what works for him or her.   

Support staff often like to keep this power to themselves.  I remember one 
client I had in my tutoring program in Boston who was a high school student with 
severe decoding deficits though he achieved on an extremely high level.  The 
high school support services office kept insisting that this student had to 
come to their office to do his homework, when he was consistently on the honor 
roll and of course did not want to be seen with other students more blatantly 
in need of help than he. This was the only accommodation the support office 
could figure out and the student was told that if he did not accept it, he would 
lose his right to accommodations!   The only accommodation he needed was more 
time on tests, since he decoded very slowly and laboriously, but his request 
was ignored because the staff had decided what they thought he needed. 

Helping persons with learning needs to figure out what works best for THEM 
and how to ask for it and when is the best transition help there is.  Arlyn, do 
you agree?

Robin Lovrien Schwarz, M. Sp. Ed:LD
Independent Consultant in Adult ESOL/Education and Learning Difficulties







-----Original Message-----
From: Beverly Cranmer <bcranmer at broward.edu>
To: List, The Learning Disabilities Discussion <learningdisabilities at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 7 Nov 2007 11:36 am
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1472] Re: Fwd: Transition Questions


I agree!  School system's are not doing students any favors by waiving 
requirements!  Just because a student has a math disability does not mean they can 
not do math.  It means they need accommodations.  Then if the problem 
continues, readdress the issue.  At a conference I just attended, one of the speakers 
stated " If a first you don't succeed, try another way!"
Beverly
 
Beverly Cranmer
Coordinator of Disability Services
Broward Community College
Willis Holcombe Downtown Center
Bldg. 33 Room 114
954-201-7655
_bcranmer at broward.edu_ (mailto:bcranmer at broward.edu) 
 
Please Note: Due to Florida's very broad public records law, most written 
communications to or from College employees regarding College business are public 
records, available to the public and media upon request. Therefore, this 
email communication may be subject to public disclosure.


>>> "Katherine G" <_Kgotthardt at comcast.net_ (mailto:Kgotthardt at comcast.net) > 

11/7/2007 9:44 AM >>>

I have to disagree here.  No matter what the goals, students need to build
as many math skills as they can.  Unless this student is really incapable of
remembering how to add 10+2, I think encouraging him to be dependent on the
calculator is encouraging a life of dependency.  My personal belief is we
need to get LD students to work as hard as they can, up to their potential,
without frustrating and/or discouraging them.  I know that's difficult, and
it takes lots of assessment of different types.  But LD kids need to be
challenged just as much as kids who don't have learning challenges.  Letting
them slide through the system doesn't help anyone.

Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt





-----Original Message-----
From: _learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov_ 
(mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov) 
[_mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On_ 
(mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On)  Behalf Of Anne R
Connors
Sent: Monday, November 05, 2007 8:42 PM
To: _learningdisabilities at nifl.gov_ (mailto:learningdisabilities at nifl.gov) 
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1461] Re: Fwd: Transition Questions


I was wondering if this 16 year old had any goals?  What does he/she want
to do with his/her life?  If the student wishes to further his education
, than he needs some math skills.  However, if  the student has no goals
that include math training, he/she can easily get by with just calculator
skills.  The thinking skills to arrive at the correct  answers in math,
even if using the calculator, are most of the battle anyway, I think.
Memorization of the times table and addition  and subtraction can be
learned by rote..... if there is a need to.  Knowing  when  and how to
add subtract and multiply and which numbers to use,  takes the thinking.
I have students who can do the math easily, but when it comes to a
reading problem, they don't know what to do, with or without the
calculator.


Rae Connors

On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 18:46:21 +0000 _tcqmom at comcast.net_ 
(mailto:tcqmom at comcast.net)  writes:

> How can we help high school students adjust to life with no IEP?  I'm

> working with a 16-year-old who is 100% calculator dependent.  He

> cannot (will not?) learn math facts because he's always permitted to

> use a calculator. Between that and his "digital" calculator, he

> can't add, subtract, multiply or divide even the simplest of

> numbers.  I've tried every way I can think of, and he still stumbles

> on "What's 10 plus 2?", etc.  I really think that the calculator is

> to blame. He knows he's always allowed to use it and won't imagine a

> situation where he can't.  "Even my phone has a calculator," he

> says.

> Kathryn Quinn

> Home and Hospital teacher

> Frederick MD

>

>

>

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