Hi Robin,
I found your comments interesting about visual stress.  What are visual overlays, and where can one find them, how does one use them, etc.
Thanks,

Joyce Kahn
Teacher/Outreach Coordinator
Central Vermont Adult Education, Inc.
Barre, VT 05641
(802) 476-4588
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: robinschwarz1 at aol.com 
  To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov 
  Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 11:51 AM
  Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1548] Re: IQ and LD


  Kim -- it is definitely true that adult educators need to know a lot more about learning challenges in adults-- and one thing to know more about, which this discussion is helping with a lot, is the "true" nature of LD.   I think it is important to remember that the term 'LD" is a legal one, conferred only after the tortuous diagnostic process and used only when the diagnostics can meet the laws and definitions that have been cited in the discussion. Thus it is unlikely that 50-80% of adults in adult education have LEARNING DISABILITIES. 

  What they DO have is learning difficulties--the causes of which are extremely varied.  I have been an LD specialist and reading tutor for 40 years, and I can tell you that the vast majority of reading problems are NOT caused by dyslexia but by other problems, most commonly visual problems.  As I have often described on this list, visual problems can cause reading errors and low scores just as dyslexia does, but are frequently overlooked in diagnosis and evaluations.  

  Laura Weisel, who owns PowerPath, has data showing that 85-90% of over 5,000 adults screened in a variety of adult education/literacy setting had visual stress problems--the kind that are readily helped with colored overlays.   Not a few of these adults had already been diagnosed with dyslexia or LD , but of course no amount of phonics or remedial reading or other tutoring or help will address the real problem.  I have seen this first hand for years. When I work with any adult learner who has reported reading difficulties, the very first thing I do is screen for visual issues.  The visual stress problems ( which are sensitivity to certain light and especially to black print on white pages) can contribute to tracking and convergence difficulties, making reading a torture because the eyes will not stay on a line of print.    

  Visual problems, particularly visual stress, contribute notably to attention difficulties.  Brain images from a clinic in California show a highly overactive brain when it is irritated by visual stress, but a much calmer one when overlays are used.  Users of overlays will tell you they feel much less tension, have no headaches and feel much better when things do not blur, smudge, move etc on the page. 

  Apparently the NEA agrees.  The NEA adopted a resolution in the last few months recommending that every school child be screened for visual stress --it takes just a few minutes.  Laura, and I, and all of her trainees. strongly recommend that as part of the intake process, all adults be screened for it too. 

  Other vision problems, unrecognized hearing loss and a variety of other causes also contribute to adult learning challenges-- not the least of which is the self-fulfilling prophecy of failing.   

  While the discussion of LD is extremely helpful on many levels, it is also helpful to remember that we as educators must be alert to the wide range of problems adult learners bring to the adult education setting. The kind of practical, real-life suggestions about helping learners who have socialization issues, self-help challenges etc. are what are really going to improve life for learners--and we don't need labels or diagnosis to know that these needs are there. As you have said, we can see that some learners have significant  challenges.   What we need to do is explore a wide variety of causes for those challenges as we help the learner figure out what works best for him or her.  Only the learner inhabits his or her body and can tell us whether an intervention or accommodation helps.   So for example, the adult who is fidgety or acting out or talking out might be even more uncomfortable in front of the class.   Maybe that person is attempting t o hide or mask issues that cause embarrassment, or is reacting to the fluorescent lights (one of my daughters, who has severe ADD, will tell you she can hear the lights and sees them flicker) and really would do better off at the side or back of the class, with a koosh ball or other object to fidget with (that same daughter says she cannot listen if her hands are not busy).  

  A while back there was a wonderful description of a classroom in a school in the San Francisco area where learners are able to choose where in the room to sit (with different light sources) whether they want to wear a hat or not ( to block glare); use overlays, use a koosh ball, etc.  This is the kind of ideal setting for adult learners I believe there should be more of.   

  Robin Lovrien Schwarz, M. Sp. Ed:LD
  Independent Consultant in Adult ESOL/Education and Learning Difficulties. 

   






  -----Original Message-----
  From: Kim Bellerive <KBellerive at greaterhomewood.org>
  To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List <learningdisabilities at nifl.gov>
  Sent: Fri, 9 Nov 2007 11:03 am
  Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1509] Re: IQ and LD


"For example, most teachers should know that if a child (or adult!) is
acting out, distracted, or incapable of following directions, that child
or adult should sit in front of the class or near the teacher.
Instructions may have to be repeated and/or explained separately."

I learned some of these things in the class I took and others through
experience. Since there is no certification requirements for adult ed in
Maryland, adult educators need to be shown what to look out for and how
to help learners who exhibit certain behaviors that might lead to
learning disabilities. Without my elementary ed background and scant 3
credit hours and 4 years teaching experience in grades 1-4, I would not
have known what to look for or what to do when I saw the signs. Adult
educators don't have that kind of training unless they have a background
in it or professional development for it. Reportedly 50-80% of adult
learners have some form of learning disabilities so I'd say it's pretty
important that EVERYONE knows what to look for and how to work with
learners with LDs.


Kim Bellerive
Assistant Director 
Adult Literacy and ESOL Program
Greater Homewood Community Corporation
3501 N. Charles Street
Baltimore, MD 21218 
Phone 410-261-3518
Fax 410-261-3506

STRENGTHENING NEIGHBORHOODS IN NORTH CENTRAL BALTIMORE
www.greaterhomewood.org




-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katherine G
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 10:27 AM
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1508] Re: IQ and LD


 "I got approximately 3 credit hours of special education training which
is
required for regular education teachers."

Clearly, that is not enough!  Classroom teachers should be able to
identify
candidates for child study/services and be able to make accommodations
before it takes place. For example, most teachers should know that if a
child (or adult!) is acting out, distracted, or incapable of following
directions, that child or adult should sit in front of the class or near
the
teacher.  Instructions may have to be repeated and/or explained
separately.
I know this sounds basic, but I have had the experience of teachers NOT
knowing this.

In college, I had the fortune of tutoring in writing many LD adults, so
I
started recognizing some patterns.  For example, the severely dyslexic
students had more than just difficulty spelling.  They often could not
put
sentences together.  They misused words.

Certainly, though, these manifestations could also be seen in ESOL
students.
Obviously, it was easier to identify a native speaker with some kind of
learning challenge.  What I discovered, though, is I ended up providing
similar tutorial services to and using similar styles with both LD and
ESL
students.  At one point, I had become "the person" admin would send ESL
students to.  I really believe these references evolved because I had
worked
with so many LD students (not because I was some teaching genius LOL).

Unfortunately, when I later worked in higher education administration, I
would become frustrated with faculty who didn't understand when I told
them
they needed to provide "accommodations" and/or extra help to both LD and
ESL
students.  I assumed they had training and experience in these areas,
but
they did not.  My (ridiculous) middle management position didn't allow
me to
provide much guidance, and the school (a career school) was not in favor
of
spending extra dollars on student services or teacher training in this
area.
The results were of course, high failure and drop-out rates.  We see the
same thing in any educational setting.

Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt
Prince William County Public Schools
Adult Education
P.O. Box 389
Manassas, VA 20108
work 703-791-8387
fax 703-791-8889

-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Kim Bellerive
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:50 AM
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1507] Re: IQ and LD


"I think parents and educators sometimes know there is
something wrong with their children and/or students, but they can't tell
you
WHAT is wrong."

This is the crux of the problem for me. I am trained as an elementary
school teacher which means I got approximately 3 credit hours of special
education training which is required for regular education teachers in
CT where I was certified. I seriously doubt this qualifies me to
diagnose the adult learners I interact with every day as a reading
teacher. I know something is wrong but I don't know what it is. I know
something about providing instructional accommodations but I'm doing
that to the best of my ability with a limited knowledge base. The other
difficulty I've found, at least in Maryland, is that there is a shortage
of services for adults with learning disabilities as the main focus
appears to be on children. I'm curious to learn how others face this
challenge and overcome it.

Kim Bellerive
Assistant Director
Adult Literacy and ESOL Program
Greater Homewood Community Corporation
3501 N. Charles Street
Baltimore, MD 21218
Phone 410-261-3518
Fax 410-261-3506

STRENGTHENING NEIGHBORHOODS IN NORTH CENTRAL BALTIMORE
www.greaterhomewood.org



-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Katherine G
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:54 PM
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1502] Re: IQ and LD

Hi Arlyn--

Let me clarify, because I think we are talking about two different
things.
When my daughters got the psychological evaluations, I was told that
kids
with LD often had average or above average intelligence.  That's not in
the
VA description, however (which I just looked up out of curiosity).  So
there
may be some confusion on my part between the psych descriptions and the
academic descriptions.  I think this is probably common since many
parents
must get their children evaluated outside of school (via a psychiatrist)
before the school will test them for learning disabilities.  At least,
this
has been my experience in this state.

Let me also say I'm not an expert in this field. I'm a parent who also
works
in education, and I am hoping to learn more via these lists (which have
been
exceedingly helpful).  I think parents and educators sometimes know
there is
something wrong with their children and/or students, but they can't tell
you
WHAT is wrong.  That's where the diagnosing and early intervention
become so
important--so we are not allowing children to graduate without knowing
they
have a learning disability that might affect them in the future even if
it
didn't in the past.

Does any of that make sense?  : )

Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt





-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov]On Behalf Of Arlyn Roffman
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:15 PM
To: The Learning Disabilities Discussion List
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1496] IQ and LD


Hi Katherine-

IDEA 2004 describes LD as ... a disorder in one or more of the basic
psychological processes involved in understanding or in using language,
spoken or written, which may manifest itself in an imperfect ability to
listen, think, speak, read, write, spell or do mathematical
calculations.

The National Joint Committee on Learning Disabilities definition is ....
LD is a general term that refers to a heterogeneous group of disorders
manifested by significant difficulties in the acquisition and use of
listening, speaking, reading, writing, reasoning, or mathematical
abilities.
These disorders are intrinsic to the individual, presumed to be due to
central nervous system dysfunction, and may occur across the life span.
Problems in self-regulatory behaviors, social perception, and social
interaction may exist with learning disabilities but do not, by
themselves,
constitute a learning disability.Although learning disabilities may
occur
concomitantly with other disabilities (e.g., sensory impairment, mental
retardation, serious emotional disturbance), or with extrinsic
influences
(such as cultural differences, insufficient or inappropriate
instruction),
they are not the result of those conditions or influences.



What does the state of Virginia say?
Arlyn


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Learning Disabilities mailing list
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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to kgotthardt at comcast.net

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To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Email delivered to kbellerive at greaterhomewood.org
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