To Nadia or Kevin or both

Thanks for a very insightful reply --- and clearly linking the issues of LD
to the standard struggle of persons with disabilities and other persons who
have lived in oppressed and discriminated situations in society ... 

And we must remember the quote of Bobby Kennedy (who was actually quoting
someone else when he said ...) Some look at things as they are and ask why,
others dream of how things could be and ask why not? ... (I think it was
George Bernard Shaw but not sure) 

And that is what every group struggling for issues always need to remember
... They need to keep publicly asking why not? And then keep presenting a
vision of how do we get there ... We in the LD community are so stuck on
asking why, with only a few ask why not ... (I am a "why not" type of guy)

And, as we have seen over and over again, the struggle of every group
throughout history has included a phase where they had to develop a positive
model of themselves ... Separate from the models that the general society
has pinned on them ... And often that effort has had to go through several
processes to get to one that works  ... And it does not include denying of
themselves, but embracing themselves for what and who they are .... And
moving away from the "society model" with all its built in limitations, to a
self-empowerment model (Negro, to Black to African-American  or lady, to
female to women etc)  

So with us ... The persons with LD ... We live with all the stereotypes put
on us by society of the Short bus syndrome and the shame of special ed ...
To ... what ever

And the effort of "learning differences" has failed and put us in the wrong
direction (much like the "Negro model" ...  Now (and for a long time) the
real need is that we need to go through the same phases as other groups ...
Including and key -- is self awareness of what LD  -- not denial not "can't
identify because of this or that ... But recognition and acceptance models
... We need to start saying (to paraphrase James Brown) - "Say it loud, I'm
LD and I'm Proud" ... 

So not the school (society model) but the scientific model ... Not Special
ED amorphous "failed group dump" model ... But the minimum brain dysfunction
model ... Not the model of "can't do" ... But the model of "can do" (with
accommodations etc) ... the Disability empowerment models ... Not the
education deficit models - or discrepancy model) 

And like the phases of any movement we can't have the "oppressors" defining
what and who we are (Women only, Black only, Gay only groups, were needed to
create a safe place to create a position of power etc) ... We who are LD
need the space and time to develop our "self conscience" without the
leadership of teachers or parents or "professionals" ... And the ability to
sort out our own garbage without selves by ourselves ... 

When (like all groups, and all disability groups) the LD community is ready
to present and argue the needs for itself, and not coming from teachers,
parents, etc ... It is then and then only that the issues associated with LD
can really get scouted out and presented in a fashion that is balanced and
fair for the community and persons with LD will be less likely to be
stereotyped and isolated and the "terror" of the short bus syndrome and such
will be stopped for us ...

SO ... Nothing personal against anyone who is not LD ... Its just standard
historical process that I am presenting here .... As I have been presenting
in speeches for years  ... Say it loud, I'm LD and I'm proud ... That is
really the first step towards success for persons with LD ... Acceptance and
self pride not denial and avoidance ...

We are not like everyone --- we are persons with a particular disability ...
That disability has consequences ... But we need to work towards elimination
of the stereotyping of the persons and the consequences ... So Say it loud
... Etc.

Thanks for letting me vent yet again ... 


Glenn Young
530 Auburn Ave.
Buffalo, New York 14222
Ph. and Fax 716-882-2842
Cell 703-864-3755
e-mail gyoungxlt at adelphia.net

-----Original Message-----
From: learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:learningdisabilities-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Nadia and Kevin
Colby
Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2007 7:30 PM
To: learningdisabilities at nifl.gov
Subject: [LearningDisabilities 1158] Learning Disabilities and Inequities

Dear Rochelle:

I followed the extremely interesting and controversial discussion regarding
learning disabilities.  I borrowed books from the library but found myself
unable to contribute in any enriching way. Some of the participants have
such an in-depth knowledge of tests and research regarding disabilities, and
are so passionate about their positions, that I just stepped out and read
their postings. I think that eventually I will make sense of the debate
between Glen and Robin because, intuitively, I think that they are both
right.

If I am not mistaken Glen looks at disabilities from the point of view of
their causes and she definitely made her audience aware of the many issues
involved in
developing a disability.   Poverty being the main
cause, for example, in the case of asthma.

Robin refuses to accept screenings and tests mainly
because they categorize individuals.   I think that
she particularly refuses to apply tests to ESL populations because being
illiterate or not being able to speak English does not make a person
necessarily subject to the disability category.  And I think she is totally
right.

Glen says that denying ESL and ABE populations the services and the needed
category of disability (when testing prescribes it) has the potential to
deprive them of their civil rights.

To me the most disturbing fact about the debate is that whether you are
called "lazy, stupid, crazy", or "LD" or "mentally ill" may put you, to an
extent, in a similar situation.  Foucault's epistemological approach
analyzes the phenomena above heuristically, with the end results being the
same.  Societies have struggled at all times to normalize and categorize
individuals, particularly in the West. 

Following this thread of thought, I would think that kids don't want to be
called "stupid" but neither are they proud of being in special education.
People hide their learning disabilities; and do not go around stating that
they have been diagnosed with specific mental health categories. 

Yes, brain malfunction is a fact.  Yes, some individuals are born with
autism, schizophrenia, or
severe disturbances.   But, the LD category in a broad
sense is a magnifying glass of the undeniable fact that societies create
their own pathologies, which in turn are diagnosed and categorized. Along
with this process comes an attempt to normalize, alleviate, or simply do
away with such pathologies.

The fact that African American and Latino men are overrepresented in prisons
is a metaphor of the unaddressed issue of race and poverty becoming crime
and incarceration, or in the best scenario, a "learning disability".

Maybe that is the reason why countries that don't have the privilege of
building and maintaining prisons, eg:
Brazil and Mexico, present cases of literally surreal and brutal riots,
cells being "rented" and, special "suites" for white collar crime. 

I have been, sadly, thinking that the United States ought to look at South
America because the Brazilianization of this country has been discussed for
years.  To go back to learning disabilities, there is an attempt in public
education in my country of origin, Mexico, to screen the children and have
them work with a team where the parents, teachers, psychologists and social
workers partake in the recovery of the child.  Sounds great.  But, we must
be so far behind in helping the under served that the country is plagued
with small guerrillas (some of which I have done research about, met and
sympathize with, like the Zapatistas in the Southeast), big time drug
dealing and "express or lethal" kidnapping. 

This is why I respect both Robin's and Glen's position.  They both
sympathize passionately with the under served but their philosophies and
backgrounds make them see different aspects of the debate.

To me it has been incredibly enlightening and thought provoking.  I also
would recommend reading the following books: "Bodies in Revolt: Gender,
Disability and Workplace Ethic of Care" (Routledge, 2005) and "Crippled
Justice: The History of Modern Disability Policy in the Workplace" (Chicago:
University of Chicago Press, 2001) by Ruth O'Brien and by Michel Foucault I
recommend "Discipline and Punish", and "The Order of Things" (Les Mots et
les Choses).
 

Regards,

Nadia Quiroz-Colby

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