Thx, Joanie:

I hope that you weren't reading my rants against WIA-NRS.

Andres


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Joanie Rethlake <jrethlake at hcde-texas.org>
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 10:24 pm
Subject: [Assessment 1052] Re: GED, Creativity and Fast-tracking































Bravo for being a creative educator and
retaining your students!!



?



Joanie Rethlake, Texas LEARNS



?
















From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of andresmuro at aol.com

Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2007
10:10 AM

To: assessment at nifl.gov

Subject: [Assessment 1048] Re:
GED, Creativity and Fast-tracking






?






The thing is that students learn better if information
relates to their knowledge and experiences. For example, in my program,
students have difficulty writing. Once we get them to write about their own
experiences, and teach them to do so, they become better writers. They also
publish their stories. Also, our students face health barriers and want to
learn about health prevention, improvement, access. They also take nutrition
classes. Because they are interested in these topics, they learn fast and they
remain focused and motivated. Also we have good retention. 



Ultimately, these topics do not deter them to learn information to pass the
GED. The GED is basically having good reading, writing and math skills and test
taking skills. It doesn't really matter if you teaching them to read by using
the Glencoe GED book, or a health brochure, a bag of potato chips, legal
information, etc. I do this workshop in which I show teachers that I can teach
pretty much all the math skills for the GED using a bag of potato chips. I can
also teach reading, writing and graph skills with the same bag. Thing is, bags
of potato chips are fascinating to students.? They capture? their
imagination and keep them focused and working on task.? They are also
learning how to read nutrition labels and how to watch what they eat. 



So, in a sense, teaching the GED and teaching things that are not in the book
are not necessarily contradictory things. Also, in my program, in every
class,? we have a small percentage of students who have diabetes and don't
even know about it. We do a glucose test every semester. Those who have
diabetes are referred to the doctor. To us, even if these students don't pass
the GED, it is a triumph. We essentially saved limbs, if not lives. In fact,
most of these students do get the GED. We also have victims of domestic
violence that start to get counseling, support and protection. Many of these
people would never get the GED. 



Finally, as I said before, our students get published, which is a huge self
esteem builder. You can see the student's writings at
http://bordersenses.com/memorias.?; Click on the books below. You can click
on traducciones on the right to read the translations. Imagine a GED student
who gets published and shows that to her peers, teachers, relatives. How many
students ever dream of getting published or think that they have any knowledge
worth sharing?



Andres









?









?






-----Original
Message-----

From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com>

To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 7:25 pm

Subject: [Assessment 1047] Re: GED, Creativity and Fast-tracking










?I still say students should get their GED as soon as possible and that it is 





not our job to hold students back by teaching them not only to pass the test but 





things we personally think they should know. We are hired to help people pass 





the test; that is what the taxpayers want us to do and that is why students come 





to the adult school in the first place.? Also, I think the GED is a pretty good 





test. One-third of? high school graduates cannot pass it. I don't know what 





states you all come from, but where I am in California, if someone passes the 





GED, that is a sign their skills are fairly high, high enough not to spend time 





on much remediation in the community college. The army used to prefer diploma 





grads to GED grads, not because the latter were less educated but because 





diploma grads have more stick-to-itiveness. Perhaps this is true in college also 





and accounts for the high college dropout rate of GED grads. 























________________________________> From: djrosen at comcast.net> Date: Tue, 30 Oct 





2007 09:30:31 -0400> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Subject: [Assessment 1035] GED, 





Creativity and Fast-tracking>> Mary Lynn wrote:> I think we owe to to our 





students to get them to community college or training as fast as possible. That 





is their goal and it is unfair for us to decide that they need "creativity", a 





nebulous term at best. We must respect the goal of the student, and it is 





paternalistic or maternalistic to do otherwise.> Creativity need not be 





nebulous. For example, here's a good definition from the Wikipedia:> "Creativity 





(or creativeness) is a mental process involving the generation of new ideas or 





concepts, or new associations between existing ideas or concepts." 





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity> I am sure you can see the direct 





application of this kind of creativity to scoring high on the GED tests, for 





example in writing a good essay, and perhaps in other areas. Equally important 





-- for students who believe that GED preparation is the key to success in 





post-secondary education and some kinds of job skills training -- generating new 





ideas or concepts and making associations between existing ideas or concepts is 





essential for success.> Let me return to the context in which I raised the issue 





of creativity, Marc Tucker's claim that if the U.S. is to be competitive, if 





Americans are to have good jobs, they not only need strong basic skills and some 





college education, but they also need to be creative, that this is the cultural 





edge that leads to innovation and invention, that makes the American economy 





strong, and will enable American workers to thrive. Some adult education 





students, of course, don't care about that. They want the GED for other reasons, 





and that's fine. Let them fast track to the test. Those who want GED 





prepararation for college and good jobs, however, will need more: stronger 





academic skills to succeed in college, and -- if Tucker is right -- skills in 





the mental processes to generate new ideas or concepts, and new associations 





between existing concepts, and perhaps other kinds of creativity.> Mary Lynn, I 





would like to challenge the belief that we "owe [it] to our students to get them 





to community college or training as fast as possible." This has not produced 





good results for adult students whose goal is to succeed in college. Only a very 





small percentage of adult GED holders actually succeed in college, often because 





they lack the academic reading and writing skills, and numeracy (especially 





algebra) that they need to enroll in regular (not developmental) courses. 





Unfortunately way too many use up their college financial aide in college 





developmental courses and then have to drop out before achieving a certificate 





or degree. Many of these students will need to take the time to prepare for 





college in their GED preparation program, not fast track to the GED test.> David 





J. Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net> On Oct 29, 2007, at 3:27 PM, Mary Lynn Simons 





wrote:> I am definitely not against teaching critical thinking skills; critical 





thinking and the GED go hand in hand. I am against teachers wasting student time 





with too much talking, both by students and by themselves, and calling it 





"creativity". In order to be able to pass the tests, students must grapple with 





the five subject areas. People will never improve reading, writing and 





mathematics unless they read, write, and do math! Lively discussions, though 





interesting, can keep students from doing what they need to do to be able to 





pass. Adult education students have busy lives and have little time to get their 





GED. I think we owe to to our students to get them to community college or 





training as fast as possible. That is their goal and it is unfair for us to 





decide that they need "creativity", a nebulous term at best. We must respect the 





goal of the student, and it is paternalistic or maternalistic to do otherwise.>> 





From: andreawilder at comcast.net>> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:19:48 -0400>> To: 





assessment at nifl.gov>> Subject: [Assessment 1022] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 25, 





Issue 33>>>> Words are so tricky, I don't really know what either of you two 





(Mary>> Lynn) are talking about--if I were to observe your classes, what would>> 





I see???>> would there be a real difference?>> Thanks.>>>> Andrea>> On Oct 29, 





2007, at 9:13 AM, Carver, Mary-Lynn wrote:>>>>> Wow, I must say I disagree with 





Mary Lynn Simons. Many ABE/GEDstudents>>> come in just wanting to pass the test, 





but have no critical thinking>>> or transitional college skills. If we don't 





help them understand and>>> acquire some of those skills, they will not be able 





to succeed with>>> the transition to higher education. If not us, who? I think 





it is one>>> of the first duties of any teacher to give students what they need 





to>>> succeed in their class and beyond. I don't feel it is>>> 





paternal/maternalistic to help them set a course to success.>>>>>> Thanks,>>> 





Mary Lynn Carver>>> ABE/GED Instructor>>> College of Lake County>>> Building 4, 





Office 405>>> 19351 W. Washington Street>>> Grayslake, IL 60031>>> 





Phone:847/543-2677>>> mlcarver at clcillinois.edu>>> Fax: 847/543-7580>>>>>> 





"Blessed are they who laugh at themselves, for they shall be>>> constantly 





amused" -- Unknown>>>>>> We now accept the fact that learning is a lifelong 





process of keeping>>> abreast of change. And the most pressing task is to teach 





people how>>> to learn. --Peter F. Drucker>>>>>> ________________________________>>>>>> 





From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of>>> assessment-request at nifl.gov>>> 





Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 8:23 AM>>> To: assessment at nifl.gov>>> Subject: Assessment 





Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33>>>>>>>>>>>> Send Assessment mailing list submissions 





to>>> assessment at nifl.gov>>>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide 





Web, visit>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>> or, via email, 





send a message with subject or body 'help' to>>> assessment-request at nifl.gov>>>>>> 





You can reach the person managing the list at>>> assessment-owner at nifl.gov>>>>>> 





When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific>>> than "Re: 





Contents of Assessment digest...">>>>>>>>> Today's Topics:>>>>>> 1. [Assessment 





1011] Media Library of Teaching Skills>>> (David J. Rosen)>>> 2. [Assessment 





1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> (Mary Lynn Simons)>>> 3. 





[Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> (Andrea 





Wilder)>>> 4. [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching Skills>>> (David 





J. Rosen)>>> 5. [Assessment 1015] GED preparation and creativity (David J.>>> 





Rosen)>>> 6. [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> 





(Donna Chambers)>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>> 





Message: 1>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:17:10 -0400>>> From: David J. Rosen>>>> 





Subject: [Assessment 1011] Media Library of Teaching Skills>>> To: The 





Technology and Literacy Discussion List>,>>> The Adult Literacy Professional 





Development Discussion List>>>>, The Assessment>>> Discussion List>>>>, The 





Adult English Language Learners>>> Discussion>>> List>>>> Message-ID: >>> 





Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;>>> 





format=flowed>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>>>> The Media Library of Teaching Skills 





(MLoTS) project, a free Web->>> based library of short digital videos of adult 





education classrooms>>> and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created reading and 





numeracy>>> videos and over 30 other videos, including those from:>>>>>> ? 





NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit (ESOL and basic literacy>>> tutoring)>>> ? 





NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology),>>> ? OTAN (integrating 





technology)>>> and>>> ? CLESE (an informal assessment to capture what 





low-literate ESOL>>> learners can and cannot do with literacy)>>>>>> I hope you 





will take a look. If you know of other good classroom or>>> tutoring short 





videos in digital form, please let me know. I am>>> hoping that MLoTS will 





become a large, "one-stop" collection for>>> adult literacy education classroom 





videos.>>>>>> David J. Rosen>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





------------------------------>>>>>> Message: 2>>> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 





01:01:15 +0000>>> From: Mary Lynn Simons>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1012] Re: GED 





Discussion - what you need to know!>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>>>> 





Message-ID:>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252">>>>>>>>> 





Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them>>> 





accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically>>> decide 





what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to>>> be able to 





pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to>>> college or 





training as fast as possible.>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------> 





From:>>> Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct>>> 





2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion ->>> what you 





need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential>>> in GED programs, 





especially if> students are planning to go on to>>> college! Students who pass 





the GED with> minimal ability to freely>>> think creatively, explore abstract 





ideas, and> weigh options are>>> usually at a loss in the college classroom. 





Most colleges> require>>> program elements such as "writing across the 





curriculum." As we> know,>>> writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults 





need to develop.>>>>> Even basic college writing classes require understanding 





and using>>>> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more.>>> 





Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement>>> creative 





forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For>>> students to 





truly> understand history, they must be able to vi>>> sualize different time 





periods.> Symbolic thought translates into>>> statistics and math classes in 





which> graphs, numbers and equations>>> are used to communicate ideas. The list 





goes> on.>> Someone here or in>>> another posting made the remark that students 





in a GED> class who are>>> not reading in class are not practicing reading at 





all. If> the>>> instructor is writing on the board, if the students are writing, 





if>>> the> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of>>> 





more> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need>>> to take 





that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline>>> that we might 





not> get with GED students. But especially with students>>> who want to pursue> 





higher education after earning the GED, we need to>>> have the time to teach> 





them to think critically.>> Finally, I just>>> now ran across an essay from 





Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a>>> long time but did in my past lives. 





The essay demonstrates how>>>> creativity is used in the co>>> llege classroom 





as well as what GED students can> expect in college>>> (though perhaps not to 





this extent, depending on the> teacher and the>>> class). http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> 





I'm a firm>>> believer in extensive transitional services for GED students> 





planning>>> to attend college, and I think it's essential to have> 





communications>>> between public schools and college to make this happen if we> 





want GED>>> students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include>>>> 





creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine>>> Mercurio 





Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County>>> Public Schools> 





Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108>>>> work 703-791-8387> fax 





703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>>> 





[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf Of David J. Rosen>>>> Sent: 





Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion>>> List> 





Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need>>> to know!>>> 





Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by>>> creativity. Good 





question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a>>> means to an end -- that is, 





with creative teaching> approaches will>>> more students have more and higher 





academic skills,> better test>>> scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that 





is, do we> want>>> students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or> 





both? And>>> where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as Marc Tucker 





does,>>> that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, and I would>>> 





put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and>>> as an 





end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should>>> provide 





students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that>>> are strong enough 





to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking>>> skills (these may be 





inseparable> from strong academic skills), and>>> the skills of creative 





problem> solving.>> Since this is the>>> assessment list, let me ask what are we 





measuring>>>> now adult secondary education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic 





skills,>>>> at least through standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical>>>> 





thinking skills, and if so how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in>>>> adult 





literacy education is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc>>>> Tucker is right, 





we are not paying attention to one of the> greatest>>>> economic assets, one of 





the historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree>>>> with Tucker and believe that the 





nearly exclusive focus on high>>>>> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the 





focus on only>>>> traditional> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects 





important>>>> creative skills> like the ability to look at a problem freshly 





and>>>> from different> perspectives, the ability to try out and evaluate a>>>> 





range of> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image,>>>> a 





moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language,>>>> or> 





rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead>>>> to> 





disregard instructions or traditional paths of thin>>> king (what we now> often 





describe as "thinking outside the box").>>>>> Are these goals that every GED 





student has or should have. No. Should>>>> they be? Not necessarily. But for 





students who see the GED or high>>>> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as 





a stepping stone to stable>>>> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open 





the door to>>>> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we 





should be>>>> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical 





thinking>>>> and creativity.>> I invite your comments on this.>> David J. 





Rosen>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F>>> 





wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching>>> critical>> 





thinking skills which once our students know how to think>>> in a>> critical 





thinking way they will be successful in achieving>>> their>> education and other 





life goals. However, just like K-12>>> education,>> adult education is captured 





on the high stakes spinning>>> wheel of>> accountability which stifle>>> s 





creativity and teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>>>>> BHCC>> Adult 





Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>>>>> From: 





assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment->>>>> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf 





Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October>>> 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The 





Assessment Discussion List>> Subject:>>> [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - 





what you need to know!>>>>>>>>>>> I agree that creativity is not the enemy of 





success on standardized>>>>> test. We need look no further then those who have 





been successful>> on>>> any type of test. We tend to use terms like natuarally 





gifted,>> just>>> smart, etc. If you speak to these folks they are well>> 





rounded, enjoy>>> reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I 





don't know,>>> I just know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be 





the>>> reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more>>> 





disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure>>> to the 





arts, banking industry, faculty>>> ,>> medicine, legal issues as part of your 





everyday life tends to>>> offer>> more of an advantage when testing then someone 





whose only>>> exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. My students 





participate>>> in a>> quite a few creative projects and those that "get into it" 





tend>>> to>> do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of>>> 





time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally>>> frustrated>> 





when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they>>> would>> like." 





Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>>>>> activities that have 





to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>>>>> more creativity!>>>> Shirley 





Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net wrote:>>>> 





Colleagues,>>>> I am a>>> proponent of creativity in adult literacy education 





-->> indeed in all>>> education. As Marc Tucker, President of the National>> 





Center for>>> Education and the Economy, has said in a presention>> recently to 





the>>> National Commission on Adult Literacy, http://>>>>>; www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html 





, the U.S. education system -->>>>>>> and he includes adult education, cannot be 





competitive without>>>>> high>> academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many 





GED teachers>>>>> and administrators believe that their>> students will not pass 





the>>>>> GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to pass the>>>>> 





test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many>>>>> K-12 





teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe>>>>> creativity 





distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be>>>>> the one to raise 





this>> issue, but it's the key question on the>>>>> minds of many GED teachers>> 





and administrators, so I invite the>>>>> panelists to address it.>>>> Is 





creativity a distraction or is it>>>>> essential for success? Why?>>>>>> David 





J. Rosen>>>>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original message>>>>> 





---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>>>>>>> We've had 





several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>>>>>>> wanted to>>> give a 





qu>>> ick reminder where you can get the information on this>>> discussion.>>> 





For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>> suggested>>> resources 





go to:>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>>> 





07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ->>> there 





were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>>>>> 





http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please>>> post 





your questions and also your own experiences to share>>>>> now!>>>>>> 





Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List>>> Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





Marie Cora>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion 





List>>> Moderator>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





From:>>> "Marie Cora">> To:>> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what>>> 





you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi>>> 





everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day,>>> and so 





I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you>>> can get the information>> on 





this discussion. For the full>>> announcement, information on>> guests, and 





suggested resources go>>> to:>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>> 





07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ?>>> there 





were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at:>>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> 





assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your 





own experiences to share>>> now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> 





Assessment Discussion>>> List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>>>>> 





marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List>>> 





Moderator>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>>>>> 





Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or>>> change your 





subscription settings, please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> 





Email delivered to>>> djrosen at comcast.net>> ------>>> ------------------------->> 





National Institute for Literacy>>>>> Assessment mailing list>> 





Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or>>> change your subscription settings, 





please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email 





delivered to>>> msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> 





National>>> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>>>>> 





Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>> settings, 





please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email 





delivered to>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> 





National>>> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> 





Assessment at nifl.gov>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, 





please go to>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email 





delivered to>>> kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> 





National>>> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> 





Assessment at nifl.gov>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings>>> , 





please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email>>> delivered 





to macsimoin at hotmail.com>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________>>> 





Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?.>>> Stop by 





today.>>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?>>> 





ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline>>>>>> ------------------------------>>>>>> Message: 





3>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:24:28 -0400>>> From: Andrea Wilder>>>> Subject: 





[Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> To: The 





Assessment Discussion List>>>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; 





charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;>>> format=flowed>>>>>> Hi Mary Lynn-->>>>>> One 





of my mantras for students, no matter the age, has been: "Don't>>> waste their 





time." Is this what you are getting at?>>>>>> Andrea>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2007, at 





9:01 PM, Mary Lynn Simons wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> Community Colleges test students 





when they enter and then teach them>>>> accordingly. It is not our job to 





paternalistically/maternalistically>>>> decide what is best for our students 





beyond what they need to know to>>>> be able to pass the test. We must not hold 





them back. Let them get to>>>> college or training as fast as 





possible.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------> From:>>>> 





Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct>>>> 2007 





09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion ->>>> what you 





need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential>>>> in GED programs, 





especially if> students are planning to go on to>>>> college! Students who pass 





the GED with> minimal ability to freely>>>> think creatively, explore abstract 





ideas, and> weigh options are>>>> usually at a loss in the college classroom. 





Most colleges> require>>>> program elements such as "writing across the 





curriculum." As we> know,>>>> writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults 





need to develop.>>>>>> Even basic college writing classes require understanding 





and using>>>>> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more.>>>> 





Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement>>>> 





creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For>>>> 





students to truly> understand history, they must be able to visualize>>>> 





different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into statistics>>>> and 





math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations are used to>>>> communicate 





ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in another>>>> posting made the 





remark that students in a GED> class who are not>>>> reading in class are not 





practicing reading at all. If> the instructor>>>> is writing on the board, if 





the students are writing, if the> students>>>> are taking practice tests, they 





ARE reading. In terms of more>>>>> formalized, lengthier readings, students will 





most likely need to take>>>> that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of 





discipline that we>>>> might not> get with GED students. But especially with 





students who>>>> want to pursue> higher education after earning the GED, we need 





to>>>> have the time to teach> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just>>>> 





now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a>>>> long 





time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how>>>>> creativity is 





used in the college classroom as well as what GED>>>> students can> expect in 





college (though perhaps not to this extent,>>>> depending on the> teacher and 





the class).>>>> http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm 





believer in>>>> extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to 





attend>>>> college, and I think it's essential to have> communications 





between>>>> public schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED>>>> 





students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include>>>>> creativity 





used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine>>>> Mercurio 





Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County>>>> Public Schools> 





Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108>>>>> work 703-791-8387> fax 





703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>>>> 





[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf Of David J. Rosen>>>>> Sent: 





Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion>>>> List> 





Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to>>>> know!>>> 





Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by>>>> creativity. Good 





question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a>>>> means to an end -- that 





is, with creative teaching> approaches will>>>> more students have more and 





higher academic skills,> better test>>>> scores? Or is creativity itself an end 





-- that is, do we> want>>>> students to be both academically prepared and 





creative? Or> both? And>>>> where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as 





Marc Tucker does,>>>> that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, 





and I would>>>> put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a 





means and>>>> as an end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs 





should>>>> provide students with the> opportunity to have academic skills 





that>>>> are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking>>>> 





skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and>>>> the 





skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the>>>> assessment list, 





let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary>>>> education programs?>> 





? Perhaps academic skills, at least through>>>> standardized tests> ? Are we 





measuring critical thinking skills, and>>>> if so how?> ? I am not aware that 





anyone in adult literacy education>>>> is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc 





Tucker is right, we are not>>>> paying attention to one of the> greatest 





economic assets, one of the>>>> historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree with 





Tucker and believe that>>>> the nearly exclusive focus on high> stakes basic 





skills tests for>>>> K-12, and the focus on only traditional> basic skills for 





the GED>>>> tests disrespects important creative skills> like the ability to 





look>>>> at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives, the ability 





to>>>> try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability to represent>>>> 





an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other>>>> 





figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and>>>> follow, 





but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of>>>> thinking 





(what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the>>>> box").>> Are these 





goals that every GED student has or should have.>>>> No. Should> they be? Not 





necessarily. But for students who see the GED>>>> or high> school diploma as a 





way out of poverty, as a stepping stone>>>> to stable> employment and 





self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door>>>> to> successful post-secondary 





learning, these are the skills we should>>>> be> teaching and measuring: 





academic skills, including critical>>>> thinking> and creativity.>> I invite 





your comments on this.>> David J.>>>> Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 





2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge,>>>> Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to 





creativity do we mean>>>> teaching critical>> thinking skills which once our 





students know how>>>> to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be 





successful in>>>> achieving their>> education and other life goals. However, 





just like>>>> K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high 





stakes>>>> spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifles creativity and>>>> 





teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult>>>> Education & 





Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From:>>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 





[mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On>>>> Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: 





Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>>>>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>> 





Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re:>>>> GED Discussion - what you need to 





know!>>>>>>>> I agree that>>>> creativity is not the enemy of success on 





standardized>> test. We need>>>> look no further then those who have been 





successful>> on any type of>>>> test. We tend to use terms like natuarally 





gifted,>> just smart, etc.>>>> If you speak to these folks they are well>> 





rounded, enjoy reading,>>>> mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I 





don't know, I just>>>> know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be 





the reason for>>>> disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more 





disparity>>>> between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure to 





the>>>> arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal issues as part of>>>> 





your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing>>>> then 





someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard.>>>> My students 





participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those>>>> that "get into 





it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that>>>> feel it is a waste of 





time>> and they just want to "study for the GED">>>> are generally frustrated>> 





when "all of their hard work does not pay>>>> off like they would>> like." 





Creativity also leads to retention;>>>> especially those>> activities that have 





to be completed in increments.>>>> Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>> Shirley 





Ledet>>>> GED>>>> Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net 





wrote:>>>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult 





literacy>>>> education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President 





of>>>> the National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a>>>> 





presention>> recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy,>>>> 





http://>>; www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S.>>>> education>>>> system 





-->> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive>>>> without high>> 





academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED>>>> teachers and 





administrators believe that their>> students will not>>>> pass the GED unless 





they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to>>>> pass the test, that 





creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster.>>>> (Many K-12 teachers,>> 





administrators or policy makers also believe>>>> creativity distracts>> from 





passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be>>>> the one to raise this>> issue, but 





it's the key question on the minds>>>> of many GED teachers>> and 





administrators, so I invite the panelists>>>> to address it.>>>> Is creativity a 





distraction or is it essential for>>>> success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>> 





djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>> -------------- Original message ---------------------->> 





From: "Marie>>>> Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>> We've had several new subscribers 





over the>>>> past day, and so I>> wanted to>>> give a quick reminder where you 





can>>>> get the information on this>>> discussion. For the full 





announcement,>>>> information on guests, and>>> suggested resources go 





to:>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>>>> 





07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ->>>> there 





were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>>>>>> 





http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please>>>> post 





your questions and also your own experiences to share>>>>>> now!>>>>>> 





Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List>>>> Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





Marie Cora>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion 





List>>>> Moderator>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





From:>>>> "Marie Cora">> To:>> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - 





what>>>> you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi>>>> 





everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day,>>>> and 





so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the>>>> information>> 





on this discussion. For the full announcement,>>>> information on>> guests, and 





suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>> 





07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ?>>>> there 





were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at:>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> 





assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your 





own experiences to share>>>> now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> 





Assessment Discussion>>>> List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>>>>>> 





marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List>>>> 





Moderator>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>>>>>> 





Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or>>>> change 





your subscription settings, please go to>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> 





Email delivered to>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>> ------------------------------->> 





National>>>> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>>>>>> 





Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>>> settings, 





please go to>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email 





delivered to>>>> msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> 





National>>>> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>>>>>> 





Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>>> settings, 





please go to>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email 





delivered to>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> 





National>>>> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> 





Assessment at nifl.gov>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, 





please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email 





delivered to>>>> kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> 





National>>>> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> 





Assessment at nifl.gov>>>>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, 





please go to>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email 





delivered to>>>> macsimoin at hotmail.com>>>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________>>>> 





Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?.>>>> Stop by 





today.>>>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?>>>> 





ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline>>>> ------------------------------->>>> National 





Institute for Literacy>>>> Assessment mailing list>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov>>>> 





To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>>>> 





http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>> Email delivered to 





andreawilder at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------>>>>>> 





Message: 4>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:39:24 -0400>>> From: "David J. 





Rosen">>>> Subject: [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching Skills>>> 





To: The Assessment Discussion List>>>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; 





charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;>>> format=flowed>>>>>> ....and the Web address 





for MLoTS is:>>>>>> http://www.mlots.org>>>>>> David J. Rosen>>> 





djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:17 PM, David J. Rosen 





wrote:>>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>>>>>> The Media Library of Teaching Skills (MLoTS) 





project, a free Web->>>> based library of short digital videos of adult 





education classrooms>>>> and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created reading and 





numeracy>>>> videos and over 30 other videos, including those from:>>>>>>>> ? 





NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit (ESOL and basic literacy>>>> tutoring)>>>> 





? NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology),>>>> ? OTAN (integrating 





technology)>>>> and>>>> ? CLESE (an informal assessment to capture what 





low-literate ESOL>>>> learners can and cannot do with literacy)>>>>>>>> I hope 





you will take a look. If you know of other good classroom or>>>> tutoring short 





videos in digital form, please let me know. I am>>>> hoping that MLoTS will 





become a large, "one-stop" collection for>>>> adult literacy education classroom 





videos.>>>>>>>> David J. Rosen>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





------------------------------->>>> National Institute for Literacy>>>> 





Assessment mailing list>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov>>>> To unsubscribe or change 





your subscription settings, please go to>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>> 





Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





------------------------------>>>>>> Message: 5>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 





23:17:38 -0400>>> From: "David J. Rosen">>>> Subject: [Assessment 1015] GED 





preparation and creativity>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>>>> Message-ID: 






>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed>>>>>> 






Hello Andrea,>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2007, you wrote:>>>>>>> Has anybody yet in this 





conversation defined 1. critical reading>>>> and 2. creativity?>>>>>> Here's 





more on defining creativity. To begin with, it's quite>>> unlikely that we will 





agree on a definition. There are more than 60>>> of them in the psychological 





literature (Taylor, 1988), and as far>>> as I am aware there is no standardized 





measurement instrument for>>> creativity. Some believe it is inherited; some 





believe it can be>>> taught; some believe it can be nurtured or encouraged. I 





believe that>>> some kinds of creativity can be taught or at least nurtured and 





that>>> it involves a set of mental activities often closely aligned with the>>> 





kind of mental activities we call critical thinking. Most of us would>>> agree, 





I believe, that a key element is originality, but we might>>> differ in 





describing the paths to it. And it may look different in>>> different contexts, 





in the sciences, in the arts, in technology, and>>> in the creative problem 





solving of daily living.>>>>>> In the context in which I raised the issue of 





creativity, I was>>> thinking of the application of new ideas, what some would 





refer to as>>> innovation or ingenuity. It is this applied creativity that I 





believe>>> Marc Tucker had in mind as something that Americans have 





historically>>> valued and excelled at, that has been an element of American 





economic>>> success, and that may be undervalued or lost now in the education>>> 





systems' rush toward performance on high stakes standardized tests.>>>>>> Are 





adult literacy education students (including basic education,>>> secondary 





education and ESOL) capable of this kind of creativity? If>>> so, should we 





nurture it? I believe they are and that we should. In>>> many GED programs I 





have seen, it is not nourished, usually not even>>> acknowledged in program 





goals or objectives. And I have never seen>>> it measured. This indicates to me 





that, as a field, we do not value>>> and support student creativity. I agree 





with Marc Tucker that, if we>>> are interested in Americans' global 





competitiveness that we should>>> value creativity, and of course, there are 





other good reasons to>>> nourish creativity.>>>>>> What do you think about 





this?>>>>>>>>> * Taylor, C.W. (1988). "Various approaches to and definitions 





of>>> creativity", in ed. Sternberg, R.J.: The nature of creativity:>>> 





Contemporary psychological perspectives. Cambridge University Press.>>>>>> David 





J. Rosen>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------>>>>>> 





Message: 6>>> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 07:51:18 -0400>>> From: "Donna 





Chambers">>>> Subject: [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to 





know!>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List">>>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: 





text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";>>> reply-type=original>>>>>> 





Mary Lynn,>>>>>> Your argument to push learners forward is a common belief. I am 





not>>> suggesting to hold learners back, but if we are to prepare them for>>> 





just>>> "passing the test" we are overlooking the "ASE" responsibility of our>>> 





job.>>> Preparing the learner to possess the expected academic skills of a>>> 





high>>> school student and be ready to transition to college level academics>>> 





is in>>> the learners' best interest in respect to time and money. Community>>> 





College should not have to remediate adult basic skills, and yet they>>> do. 





If>>> the GED were to be more aligned with the tests required to enter>>> 





community>>> college, such as the Accuplacer, the transition would be smoother, 





but>>> it is>>> not. Preparation for the learners next steps, which includes 





basic>>> and>>> secondary fundamental skills, is the responsibility of Adult 





Literacy.>>>>>> Donna Chambers>>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----->>> From: 





"Mary Lynn Simons">>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List">>>> Sent: Saturday, 





October 27, 2007 9:01 PM>>> Subject: [Assessment 1012] Re: GED Discussion - what 





you need to know!>>>>>>>>>>>> Community Colleges test students when they enter 





and then teach them>>> accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically>>> 





decide>>> what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to be 





able>>> to>>> pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to college 





or>>> training as fast as possible.>>>>>>>>>>>> ----------------------------------------> 





From:>>> Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To:>>> assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 





2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject:>>> [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you 





need to know!>> David,>>> I>>> agree that creativity is essential in GED 





programs, especially if>>>> students>>> are planning to go on to college! 





Students who pass the GED with>>>> minimal>>> ability to freely think 





creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh>>> options are usually at a loss 





in the college classroom. Most colleges>>>> require program elements such as 





"writing across the curriculum." As>>> we>>>> know, writing requires abstract 





thought, the kind adults need to>>> develop.>>>>> Even basic college writing 





classes require understanding and using>>>> rhetorical patterns found in the 





descriptive essay and more.>>> Humanities>>>> courses demand students to 





understand and even implement creative>>> forms,>>>> figures of speech, 





figurative language, and more. For students to>>> truly>>>> understand history, 





they must be able to visualize different time>>> periods.>>>> Symbolic thought 





translates into statistics and math classes in which>>>> graphs, numbers and 





equations are used to communicate ideas. The list>>> goes>>>> on.>> Someone here 





or in another posting made the remark that students>>> in a>>> GED> class who 





are not reading in class are not practicing reading at>>> all.>>> If> the 





instructor is writing on the board, if the students are>>> writing, if>>> the> 





students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of>>> more>>>> 





formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take>>> 





that>>>> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we 





might>>> not>>>> get with GED students. But especially with students who want to 





pursue>>>> higher education after earning the GED, we need to have the time 





to>>> teach>>>> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just now ran across an 





essay>>> from>>> Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a long time but did in 





my past>>> lives.>>> The essay demonstrates how> creativity is used in the 





college>>> classroom as>>> well as what GED students can> expect in college 





(though perhaps not>>> to this>>> extent, depending on the> teacher and the 





class).>>> http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm believer 





in>>> extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to attend>>> 





college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between>>> public>>> 





schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED students to>>> 





succeed.>>> Part of these discussions should include> creativity used and 





expected>>> in>>> every academic setting.>>> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL 





Online>>> Instructor> Prince William County Public Schools> Adult Education>>>> 





P.O. Box>>> 389> Manassas, VA 20108> work 703-791-8387> fax>>> 





703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> From:>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 





[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On>>>> Behalf>>> Of David J. Rosen> Sent: 





Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The>>> Assessment Discussion List> 





Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED>>> Discussion ->>> what you need to know!>>> 





Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we>>> mean>>> by creativity. Good 





question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a>>> means>>> to an end -- that 





is, with creative teaching> approaches will more>>> students>>> have more and 





higher academic skills,> better test scores? Or is>>> creativity>>> itself an 





end -- that is, do we> want students to be both academically>>> prepared and 





creative? Or> both? And where do critical skills fit>>> in?>> I>>> would argue, 





as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic>>>> skills>>> and 





creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both> these>>> catregories, 





both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary>>>> education>>> (e.g. GED) 





programs should provide students with the> opportunity to>>> have>>> academic 





skills that are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong>>> critical 





thinking skills (these may be inseparable> from strong>>> academic>>> skills), 





and the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is>>> the>>> 





assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary>>> 





education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through>>> 





standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and>>> if so>>> 





how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is>>> 





measuring>>>> creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying>>> 





attention to>>> one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the historic 





strengths of>>> the>>> U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly 





exclusive focus>>> on>>> high> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus 





on only>>> traditional>>>> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important 





creative skills>>>> like>>> the ability to look at a problem freshly and from 





different>>>> perspectives,>>> the ability to try out and evaluate a range of> 





solutions, the ability>>> to>>> represent an idea with an image, a moving> 





image, a drawing; a>>> metaphor or>>> other figurative language, or> rhetoric; 





and the ability to understand>>> and>>> follow, but instead to> disregard 





instructions or traditional paths of>>> thinking (what we now> often describe as 





"thinking outside the>>> box").>> Are>>> these goals that every GED student has 





or should have. No. Should>>>> they be?>>> Not necessarily. But for students who 





see the GED or high> school>>> diploma as>>> a way out of poverty, as a stepping 





stone to stable> employment and>>> self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door 





to> successful>>> post-secondary>>> learning, these are the skills we should be> 





teaching and measuring:>>> academic skills, including critical thinking> and 





creativity.>> I>>> invite>>> your comments on this.>> David J. Rosen> 





djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On>>> Oct 26,>>> 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F 





wrote:>>> When we are referring to>>> creativity do we mean teaching critical>> 





thinking skills which once>>> our>>> students know how to think in a>> critical 





thinking way they will be>>> successful in achieving their>> education and other 





life goals.>>> However,>>> just like K-12 education,>> adult education is 





captured on the high>>> stakes>>> spinning wheel of>> accountability which 





stifles creativity and>>> teachers>>> teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> 





BHCC>> Adult Education &>>> Transitions>>> Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From: 





assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>>> [mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf 





Of shirley ledet>>>>> Sent:>>> Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The 





Assessment Discussion>>> List>>>>> Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion 





- what you need to>>> know!>>>>>>>> I agree that creativity is not the enemy of 





success on>>> standardized>> test. We need look no further then those who have 





been>>> successful>> on any type of test. We tend to use terms like 





natuarally>>> gifted,>> just smart, etc. If you speak to these folks they are 





well>>>>> rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms 





like>>>>> "I>>> don't know, I just know stuff." Researchers have found that>> 





this may>>> be>>> the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there 





is more>>> disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. 





Exposure>>> to>>> the arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal issues 





as part>>> of>>> your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when 





testing>>> then>>> someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study 





hard. My>>> students>>> participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and 





those that "get>>> into>>> it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that 





feel it is a waste>>> of>>> time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are 





generally>>> frustrated>>>>> when "all of their hard work does not pay off like 





they would>> like.">>> Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>> 





activities that>>> have>>> to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>> more 





creativity!>>>>>>> Shirley>>> Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> 





djrosen at comcast.net>>> wrote:>>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of 





creativity in adult literacy>>> education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc 





Tucker, President of>>> the>>> National>> Center for Education and the Economy, 





has said in a>>> presention>>>>> recently to the National Commission on Adult 





Literacy, http://>>>>>>>>; www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. 





education system -->>>>> and he>>> includes adult education, cannot be 





competitive without high>> academic>>> standards AND creativity.>>>> But many 





GED teachers and administrators>>> believe that their>> students will not pass 





the GED unless they focus>>> on>>> skills and>> knowledge needed to pass the 





test, that creativity is a>>>>> "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 





teachers,>> administrators>>> or>>> policy makers also believe creativity 





distracts>> from passing high>>> stakes>>> tests.) I hate to be the one to raise 





this>> issue, but it's the key>>> question on the minds of many GED teachers>> 





and administrators, so I>>> invite>>> the panelists to address it.>>>> Is 





creativity a distraction or is it>>> essential for success? Why?>>>>>> David J. 





Rosen>>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original>>> message 





---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi>>> everyone,>>>>>>>>> We've 





had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted>>> to>>>>>> 





give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this>>>>>> 





discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>>>>> 





suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>>> 





07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ->>> there>>> 





were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>>>>> 





http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please>>> post>>> 





your questions and also your own experiences to share>> now!>>>>>>>>> 





Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List>>> Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





Marie Cora>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion 





List Moderator>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





From:>>> "Marie>>> Cora">> To:>> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what 





you>>> need to>>> know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi 





everyone,>>>>>>>>>>> We?ve>>> had several new subscribers over the past day, and 





so I>> wanted to>>> give a>>> quick reminder where you can get the information>> 





on this discussion.>>> For>>> the full announcement, information on>> guests, 





and suggested>>> resources go>>> to:>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>> 





07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ? there 





were a couple ? you>>>>> can>>> catch up in the archives at: 





http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>>>>> assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> Please 





post your questions and also>>> your>>> own experiences to share now!>>>>>>>> 





Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>>>>> Assessment Discussion List 





Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> 





NIFL Assessment Discussion List>>> Moderator>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 





------------------------------->>>>> National Institute for Literacy>> 





Assessment mailing list>>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your 





subscription>>> settings,>>> please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> 





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to macsimoin at hotmail.com>>>>>> _________________________________________________________________>>> 





Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?.>>> Stop 





by>>> today.>>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?>>> 





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mailing list>>> Assessment at nifl.gov>>> To unsubscribe or change your 





subscription settings, please go to>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>> 





End of Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33>>> ******************************************>>>>>>>>> 





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subscription settings, please go to>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>> 





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