Tina: 

We get different entities to do health screenings. We also have a health literacy instructor who goes to all the classes for about a week and teaches health education in a GED format. We refer students to health clinics for further check-ups. We have been incorporating health literacy into GED instruction for quite a while. Please send me an email, or call me if you need additional ideas. My number is (915) 831-4161.

Andres


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Tina_Luffman at yc.edu
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Wed, 31 Oct 2007 11:04 am
Subject: [Assessment 1049] Re: GED, Creativity and Fast-tracking











Andres, 



Thanks so much for your posting. Our
program is similarly trying to build health literacy gradually this semester,
and I am going to borrow your idea on the potato chip bag as an idea generator
for our classes. Who do you get to come in to do the diabetes checks? The
local health department? I think this is a great idea.



Tina



Tina Luffman

Coordinator, Developmental Education

Verde Valley Campus

928-634-6544

tina_luffman at yc.edu












andresmuro at aol.com


Sent by: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov

10/31/2007 09:38 AM








Please respond to

The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>



















To



assessment at nifl.gov







cc












Subject



[Assessment 1048] Re: GED, Creativity
and Fast-tracking

































The thing is that students learn better if
information relates to their knowledge and experiences. For example, in
my program, students have difficulty writing. Once we get them to write
about their own experiences, and teach them to do so, they become better
writers. They also publish their stories. Also, our students face health
barriers and want to learn about health prevention, improvement, access.
They also take nutrition classes. Because they are interested in these
topics, they learn fast and they remain focused and motivated. Also we
have good retention. 



Ultimately, these topics do not deter them to learn information to pass
the GED. The GED is basically having good reading, writing and math skills
and test taking skills. It doesn't really matter if you teaching them to
read by using the Glencoe GED book, or a health brochure, a bag of potato
chips, legal information, etc. I do this workshop in which I show teachers
that I can teach pretty much all the math skills for the GED using a bag
of potato chips. I can also teach reading, writing and graph skills with
the same bag. Thing is, bags of potato chips are fascinating to students.
?They capture ?their imagination and keep them focused and working
on task. ?They are also learning how to read nutrition labels and
how to watch what they eat. 



So, in a sense, teaching the GED and teaching things that are not in the
book are not necessarily contradictory things. Also, in my program, in
every class, ?we have a small percentage of students who have diabetes
and don't even know about it. We do a glucose test every semester. Those
who have diabetes are referred to the doctor. To us, even if these students
don't pass the GED, it is a triumph. We essentially saved limbs, if not
lives. In fact, most of these students do get the GED. We also have victims
of domestic violence that start to get counseling, support and protection.
Many of these people would never get the GED. 



Finally, as I said before, our students get published, which is a huge
self esteem builder. You can see the student's writings at http://bordersenses.com/memorias.
?Click on the books below. You can click on traducciones on the right
to read the translations. Imagine a GED student who gets published and
shows that to her peers, teachers, relatives. How many students ever dream
of getting published or think that they have any knowledge worth sharing?



Andres





-----Original Message-----

From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com>

To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>

Sent: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 7:25 pm

Subject: [Assessment 1047] Re: GED, Creativity and Fast-tracking







 I still say students should get their GED as soon as possible and that
it is 



not our job to hold students back by teaching them not only to pass the
test but 



things we personally think they should know. We are hired to help people
pass 



the test; that is what the taxpayers want us to do and that is why students
come 



to the adult school in the first place. ?Also, I think the GED is
a pretty good 



test. One-third of ?high school graduates cannot pass it. I don't
know what 



states you all come from, but where I am in California, if someone passes
the 



GED, that is a sign their skills are fairly high, high enough not to spend
time 



on much remediation in the community college. The army used to prefer diploma




grads to GED grads, not because the latter were less educated but because




diploma grads have more stick-to-itiveness. Perhaps this is true in college
also 



and accounts for the high college dropout rate of GED grads. 















________________________________> From: djrosen at comcast.net>
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 



2007 09:30:31 -0400> To: assessment at nifl.gov>
Subject: [Assessment 1035] GED, 



Creativity and Fast-tracking>> Mary Lynn wrote:> I think we owe
to to our 



students to get them to community college or training as fast as possible.
That 



is their goal and it is unfair for us to decide that they need "creativity",
a 



nebulous term at best. We must respect the goal of the student, and it
is 



paternalistic or maternalistic to do otherwise.> Creativity need not
be 



nebulous. For example, here's a good definition from the Wikipedia:>
"Creativity 



(or creativeness) is a mental process involving the generation of new ideas
or 



concepts, or new associations between existing ideas or concepts."




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creativity>
I am sure you can see the direct 



application of this kind of creativity to scoring high on the GED tests,
for 



example in writing a good essay, and perhaps in other areas. Equally important




-- for students who believe that GED preparation is the key to success
in 



post-secondary education and some kinds of job skills training -- generating
new 



ideas or concepts and making associations between existing ideas or concepts
is 



essential for success.> Let me return to the context in which I raised
the issue 



of creativity, Marc Tucker's claim that if the U.S. is to be competitive,
if 



Americans are to have good jobs, they not only need strong basic skills
and some 



college education, but they also need to be creative, that this is the
cultural 



edge that leads to innovation and invention, that makes the American economy




strong, and will enable American workers to thrive. Some adult education




students, of course, don't care about that. They want the GED for other
reasons, 



and that's fine. Let them fast track to the test. Those who want GED 



prepararation for college and good jobs, however, will need more: stronger




academic skills to succeed in college, and -- if Tucker is right -- skills
in 



the mental processes to generate new ideas or concepts, and new associations




between existing concepts, and perhaps other kinds of creativity.> Mary
Lynn, I 



would like to challenge the belief that we "owe [it] to our students
to get them 



to community college or training as fast as possible." This has not
produced 



good results for adult students whose goal is to succeed in college. Only
a very 



small percentage of adult GED holders actually succeed in college, often
because 



they lack the academic reading and writing skills, and numeracy (especially




algebra) that they need to enroll in regular (not developmental) courses.




Unfortunately way too many use up their college financial aide in college




developmental courses and then have to drop out before achieving a certificate




or degree. Many of these students will need to take the time to prepare
for 



college in their GED preparation program, not fast track to the GED test.>
David 



J. Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>
On Oct 29, 2007, at 3:27 PM, Mary Lynn Simons 



wrote:> I am definitely not against teaching critical thinking skills;
critical 



thinking and the GED go hand in hand. I am against teachers wasting student
time 



with too much talking, both by students and by themselves, and calling
it 



"creativity". In order to be able to pass the tests, students
must grapple with 



the five subject areas. People will never improve reading, writing and




mathematics unless they read, write, and do math! Lively discussions, though




interesting, can keep students from doing what they need to do to be able
to 



pass. Adult education students have busy lives and have little time to
get their 



GED. I think we owe to to our students to get them to community college
or 



training as fast as possible. That is their goal and it is unfair for us
to 



decide that they need "creativity", a nebulous term at best.
We must respect the 



goal of the student, and it is paternalistic or maternalistic to do otherwise.>>




From: andreawilder at comcast.net>>
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2007 11:19:48 -0400>> To: 



assessment at nifl.gov>>
Subject: [Assessment 1022] Re: Assessment Digest, Vol 25, 



Issue 33>>>> Words are so tricky, I don't really know what
either of you two 



(Mary>> Lynn) are talking about--if I were to observe your classes,
what would>> 



I see???>> would there be a real difference?>> Thanks.>>>>
Andrea>> On Oct 29, 



2007, at 9:13 AM, Carver, Mary-Lynn wrote:>>>>> Wow, I must
say I disagree with 



Mary Lynn Simons. Many ABE/GEDstudents>>> come in just wanting
to pass the test, 



but have no critical thinking>>> or transitional college skills.
If we don't 



help them understand and>>> acquire some of those skills, they
will not be able 



to succeed with>>> the transition to higher education. If not
us, who? I think 



it is one>>> of the first duties of any teacher to give students
what they need 



to>>> succeed in their class and beyond. I don't feel it is>>>




paternal/maternalistic to help them set a course to success.>>>>>>
Thanks,>>> 



Mary Lynn Carver>>> ABE/GED Instructor>>> College of
Lake County>>> Building 4, 



Office 405>>> 19351 W. Washington Street>>> Grayslake,
IL 60031>>> 



Phone:847/543-2677>>> mlcarver at clcillinois.edu>>>
Fax: 847/543-7580>>>>>> 



"Blessed are they who laugh at themselves, for they shall be>>>
constantly 



amused" -- Unknown>>>>>> We now accept the fact
that learning is a lifelong 



process of keeping>>> abreast of change. And the most pressing
task is to teach 



people how>>> to learn. --Peter F. Drucker>>>>>>
________________________________>>>>>> 



From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
on behalf of>>> assessment-request at nifl.gov>>>




Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 8:23 AM>>> To: assessment at nifl.gov>>>
Subject: Assessment 



Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33>>>>>>>>>>>>
Send Assessment mailing list submissions 



to>>> assessment at nifl.gov>>>>>>
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide 



Web, visit>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>
or, via email, 



send a message with subject or body 'help' to>>> assessment-request at nifl.gov>>>>>>




You can reach the person managing the list at>>> assessment-owner at nifl.gov>>>>>>




When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific>>>
than "Re: 



Contents of Assessment digest...">>>>>>>>>
Today's Topics:>>>>>> 1. [Assessment 



1011] Media Library of Teaching Skills>>> (David J. Rosen)>>>
2. [Assessment 



1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> (Mary Lynn
Simons)>>> 3. 



[Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>>
(Andrea 



Wilder)>>> 4. [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching
Skills>>> (David 



J. Rosen)>>> 5. [Assessment 1015] GED preparation and creativity
(David J.>>> 



Rosen)>>> 6. [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you need
to know!>>> 



(Donna Chambers)>>>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------->>>>>>




Message: 1>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:17:10 -0400>>>
From: David J. Rosen>>>> 



Subject: [Assessment 1011] Media Library of Teaching Skills>>>
To: The 



Technology and Literacy Discussion List>,>>> The Adult Literacy
Professional 



Development Discussion List>>>>, The Assessment>>>
Discussion List>>>>, The 



Adult English Language Learners>>> Discussion>>> List>>>>
Message-ID: >>> 



Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;>>>




format=flowed>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>>>>
The Media Library of Teaching Skills 



(MLoTS) project, a free Web->>> based library of short digital
videos of adult 



education classrooms>>> and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created
reading and 



numeracy>>> videos and over 30 other videos, including those from:>>>>>>
? 



NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit (ESOL and basic literacy>>>
tutoring)>>> ? 



NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology),>>> ? OTAN (integrating




technology)>>> and>>> ? CLESE (an informal assessment
to capture what 



low-literate ESOL>>> learners can and cannot do with literacy)>>>>>>
I hope you 



will take a look. If you know of other good classroom or>>> tutoring
short 



videos in digital form, please let me know. I am>>> hoping that
MLoTS will 



become a large, "one-stop" collection for>>> adult literacy
education classroom 



videos.>>>>>> David J. Rosen>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




------------------------------>>>>>> Message: 2>>>
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 



01:01:15 +0000>>> From: Mary Lynn Simons>>>> Subject:
[Assessment 1012] Re: GED 



Discussion - what you need to know!>>> To: The Assessment Discussion
List>>>> 



Message-ID:>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252">>>>>>>>>




Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them>>>




accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically>>>
decide 



what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to>>>
be able to 



pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to>>>
college or 



training as fast as possible.>>>>>>>>>>>>
----------------------------------------> 



From:>>> Kgotthardt at comcast.net>
To: assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Sat, 27 Oct>>> 



2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion ->>>
what you 



need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential>>>
in GED programs, 



especially if> students are planning to go on to>>> college!
Students who pass 



the GED with> minimal ability to freely>>> think creatively,
explore abstract 



ideas, and> weigh options are>>> usually at a loss in the college
classroom. 



Most colleges> require>>> program elements such as "writing
across the 



curriculum." As we> know,>>> writing requires abstract
thought, the kind adults 



need to develop.>>>>> Even basic college writing classes
require understanding 



and using>>>> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive
essay and more.>>> 



Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement>>>
creative 



forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For>>>
students to 



truly> understand history, they must be able to vi>>> sualize
different time 



periods.> Symbolic thought translates into>>> statistics and
math classes in 



which> graphs, numbers and equations>>> are used to communicate
ideas. The list 



goes> on.>> Someone here or in>>> another posting made
the remark that students 



in a GED> class who are>>> not reading in class are not practicing
reading at 



all. If> the>>> instructor is writing on the board, if the
students are writing, 



if>>> the> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading.
In terms of>>> 



more> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need>>>
to take 



that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline>>>
that we might 



not> get with GED students. But especially with students>>>
who want to pursue> 



higher education after earning the GED, we need to>>> have the
time to teach> 



them to think critically.>> Finally, I just>>> now ran across
an essay from 



Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a>>> long time but did
in my past lives. 



The essay demonstrates how>>>> creativity is used in the co>>>
llege classroom 



as well as what GED students can> expect in college>>> (though
perhaps not to 



this extent, depending on the> teacher and the>>> class). http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>>




I'm a firm>>> believer in extensive transitional services for
GED students> 



planning>>> to attend college, and I think it's essential to have>




communications>>> between public schools and college to make this
happen if we> 



want GED>>> students to succeed. Part of these discussions should
include>>>> 



creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine>>>
Mercurio 



Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County>>>
Public Schools> 



Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108>>>>
work 703-791-8387> fax 



703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>>>




[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On>
Behalf Of David J. Rosen>>>> Sent: 



Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion>>>
List> 



Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need>>>
to know!>>> 



Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by>>> creativity.
Good 



question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a>>>
means to an end -- that is, 



with creative teaching> approaches will>>> more students have
more and higher 



academic skills,> better test>>> scores? Or is creativity itself
an end -- that 



is, do we> want>>> students to be both academically prepared
and creative? Or> 



both? And>>> where do critical skills fit in?>> I would
argue, as Marc Tucker 



does,>>> that we need both high academic> skills and creativity,
and I would>>> 



put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and>>>
as an 



end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should>>>
provide 



students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that>>>
are strong enough 



to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking>>> skills
(these may be 



inseparable> from strong academic skills), and>>> the skills
of creative 



problem> solving.>> Since this is the>>> assessment list,
let me ask what are we 



measuring>>>> now adult secondary education programs?>>
? Perhaps academic 



skills,>>>> at least through standardized tests> ? Are we
measuring critical>>>> 



thinking skills, and if so how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in>>>>
adult 



literacy education is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc>>>>
Tucker is right, 



we are not paying attention to one of the> greatest>>>>
economic assets, one of 



the historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree>>>> with Tucker
and believe that the 



nearly exclusive focus on high>>>>> stakes basic skills
tests for K-12, and the 



focus on only>>>> traditional> basic skills for the GED
tests disrespects 



important>>>> creative skills> like the ability to look
at a problem freshly 



and>>>> from different> perspectives, the ability to try
out and evaluate a>>>> 



range of> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image,>>>>
a 



moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language,>>>>
or> 



rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead>>>>
to> 



disregard instructions or traditional paths of thin>>> king (what
we now> often 



describe as "thinking outside the box").>>>>>
Are these goals that every GED 



student has or should have. No. Should>>>> they be? Not necessarily.
But for 



students who see the GED or high>>>> school diploma as a way
out of poverty, as 



a stepping stone to stable>>>> employment and self-sufficiency,
as a key to open 



the door to>>>> successful post-secondary learning, these are
the skills we 



should be>>>> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including
critical 



thinking>>>> and creativity.>> I invite your comments
on this.>> David J. 



Rosen>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>
On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F>>> 



wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching>>>
critical>> 



thinking skills which once our students know how to think>>> in
a>> critical 



thinking way they will be successful in achieving>>> their>>
education and other 



life goals. However, just like K-12>>> education,>> adult
education is captured 



on the high stakes spinning>>> wheel of>> accountability
which stifle>>> s 



creativity and teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni
Borge>>>>>>> BHCC>> Adult 



Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>>>>>
From: 



assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment->>>>>
bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf 



Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October>>> 25, 2007 4:30
PM>> To: The 



Assessment Discussion List>> Subject:>>> [Assessment 1001]
Re: GED Discussion - 



what you need to know!>>>>>>>>>>> I agree
that creativity is not the enemy of 



success on standardized>>>>> test. We need look no further
then those who have 



been successful>> on>>> any type of test. We tend to use
terms like natuarally 



gifted,>> just>>> smart, etc. If you speak to these folks
they are well>> 



rounded, enjoy>>> reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms
like>> "I 



don't know,>>> I just know stuff." Researchers have found
that>> this may be 



the>>> reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>>
there is more>>> 



disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure>>>
to the 



arts, banking industry, faculty>>> ,>> medicine, legal issues
as part of your 



everyday life tends to>>> offer>> more of an advantage when
testing then someone 



whose only>>> exposure>> is to go to school and study hard.
My students 



participate>>> in a>> quite a few creative projects and
those that "get into it" 



tend>>> to>> do better in all subjects. Those that feel
it is a waste of>>> 



time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally>>>
frustrated>> 



when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they>>>
would>> like." 



Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>>>>>
activities that have 



to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>>>>> more
creativity!>>>> Shirley 



Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>>>>> NHC-Carver>>>>
djrosen at comcast.net
wrote:>>>> 



Colleagues,>>>> I am a>>> proponent of creativity
in adult literacy education 



-->> indeed in all>>> education. As Marc Tucker, President
of the National>> 



Center for>>> Education and the Economy, has said in a presention>>
recently to 



the>>> National Commission on Adult Literacy, http://>>>>>;
www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html




, the U.S. education system -->>>>>>> and he includes
adult education, cannot be 



competitive without>>>>> high>> academic standards
AND creativity.>>>> But many 



GED teachers>>>>> and administrators believe that their>>
students will not pass 



the>>>>> GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge
needed to pass the>>>>> 



test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster.
(Many>>>>> K-12 



teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe>>>>>
creativity 



distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be>>>>>
the one to raise 



this>> issue, but it's the key question on the>>>>>
minds of many GED teachers>> 



and administrators, so I invite the>>>>> panelists to address
it.>>>> Is 



creativity a distraction or is it>>>>> essential for success?
Why?>>>>>> David 



J. Rosen>>>>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>
-------------- Original message>>>>> 



---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>>
Hi everyone,>>>>>>>>>>> We've had 



several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>>>>>>>
wanted to>>> give a 



qu>>> ick reminder where you can get the information on this>>>
discussion.>>> 



For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>> suggested>>>
resources 



go to:>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>>>




07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from
yesterday ->>> there 



were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>>>>>




http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>
Please>>> post 



your questions and also your own experiences to share>>>>>
now!>>>>>> 



Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion
List>>> Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




Marie Cora>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>
NIFL Assessment Discussion 



List>>> Moderator>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




From:>>> "Marie Cora">> To:>> Subject: [Assessment
942] GED Discussion - what>>> 



you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>>
Hi>>> 



everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers
over the past day,>>> and so 



I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you>>> can get
the information>> on 



this discussion. For the full>>> announcement, information on>>
guests, and 



suggested resources go>>> to:>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>




07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the
posts from yesterday ?>>> there 



were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at:>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>>




assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>>>>> Please
post your questions and also your 



own experiences to share>>> now!>>>>>>>>
Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> 



Assessment Discussion>>> List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Marie Cora>>>>>>> 



marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>>
NIFL Assessment Discussion List>>> 



Moderator>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>>>>>




Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>>
To unsubscribe or>>> change your 



subscription settings, please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>




Email delivered to>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>
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list>> 



Assessment at nifl.gov>>
To unsubscribe or>>> change your subscription settings, 



please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>
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delivered to>>> msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>>
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list>>>>> 



Assessment at nifl.gov>>
To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>> settings, 



please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>
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to macsimoin at hotmail.com>>>>>>
_________________________________________________________________>>>




Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?.>>>
Stop by 



today.>>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?>>>




ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline>>>>>> ------------------------------>>>>>>
Message: 



3>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:24:28 -0400>>> From: Andrea
Wilder>>>> Subject: 



[Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>>
To: The 



Assessment Discussion List>>>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type:
text/plain; 



charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;>>> format=flowed>>>>>>
Hi Mary Lynn-->>>>>> One 



of my mantras for students, no matter the age, has been: "Don't>>>
waste their 



time." Is this what you are getting
at?>>>>>> Andrea>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2007,
at 



9:01 PM, Mary Lynn Simons wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>
Community Colleges test students 



when they enter and then teach them>>>> accordingly. It is
not our job to 



paternalistically/maternalistically>>>> decide what is best
for our students 



beyond what they need to know to>>>> be able to pass the test.
We must not hold 



them back. Let them get to>>>> college or training as fast
as 



possible.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
----------------------------------------> From:>>>> 



Kgotthardt at comcast.net>
To: assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Sat, 27 Oct>>>> 2007 



09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion ->>>>
what you 



need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential>>>>
in GED programs, 



especially if> students are planning to go on to>>>> college!
Students who pass 



the GED with> minimal ability to freely>>>> think creatively,
explore abstract 



ideas, and> weigh options are>>>> usually at a loss in the
college classroom. 



Most colleges> require>>>> program elements such as "writing
across the 



curriculum." As we> know,>>>> writing requires abstract
thought, the kind adults 



need to develop.>>>>>> Even basic college writing classes
require understanding 



and using>>>>> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive
essay and more.>>>> 



Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement>>>>




creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For>>>>




students to truly> understand history, they must be able to visualize>>>>




different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into statistics>>>>
and 



math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations are used to>>>>
communicate 



ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in another>>>>
posting made the 



remark that students in a GED> class who are not>>>> reading
in class are not 



practicing reading at all. If> the instructor>>>> is writing
on the board, if 



the students are writing, if the> students>>>> are taking
practice tests, they 



ARE reading. In terms of more>>>>> formalized, lengthier
readings, students will 



most likely need to take>>>> that> home. Yes, this requires
a certain amount of 



discipline that we>>>> might not> get with GED students.
But especially with 



students who>>>> want to pursue> higher education after
earning the GED, we need 



to>>>> have the time to teach> them to think critically.>>
Finally, I just>>>> 



now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in
a>>>> long 



time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how>>>>>
creativity is 



used in the college classroom as well as what GED>>>> students
can> expect in 



college (though perhaps not to this extent,>>>> depending on
the> teacher and 



the class).>>>> http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>>
I'm a firm 



believer in>>>> extensive transitional services for GED students>
planning to 



attend>>>> college, and I think it's essential to have>
communications 



between>>>> public schools and college to make this happen
if we> want GED>>>> 



students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include>>>>>
creativity 



used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine>>>>
Mercurio 



Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County>>>>
Public Schools> 



Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108>>>>>
work 703-791-8387> fax 



703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message----->>>>>
From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>>>>




[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On>
Behalf Of David J. Rosen>>>>> Sent: 



Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion>>>>
List> 



Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to>>>>
know!>>> 



Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by>>>>
creativity. Good 



question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a>>>>
means to an end -- that 



is, with creative teaching> approaches will>>>> more students
have more and 



higher academic skills,> better test>>>> scores? Or is creativity
itself an end 



-- that is, do we> want>>>> students to be both academically
prepared and 



creative? Or> both? And>>>> where do critical skills fit
in?>> I would argue, as 



Marc Tucker does,>>>> that we need both high academic> skills
and creativity, 



and I would>>>> put critical thinking in both> these catregories,
both as a 



means and>>>> as an end. Our adult secondary> education
(e.g. GED) programs 



should>>>> provide students with the> opportunity to have
academic skills 



that>>>> are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong
critical thinking>>>> 



skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and>>>>
the 



skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the>>>>
assessment list, 



let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary>>>>
education programs?>> 



? Perhaps academic skills, at least through>>>> standardized
tests> ? Are we 



measuring critical thinking skills, and>>>> if so how?>
? I am not aware that 



anyone in adult literacy education>>>> is measuring> creative
skills.>> If Marc 



Tucker is right, we are not>>>> paying attention to one of
the> greatest 



economic assets, one of the>>>> historic strengths of the U.S.
I> agree with 



Tucker and believe that>>>> the nearly exclusive focus on high>
stakes basic 



skills tests for>>>> K-12, and the focus on only traditional>
basic skills for 



the GED>>>> tests disrespects important creative skills>
like the ability to 



look>>>> at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives,
the ability 



to>>>> try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability
to represent>>>> 



an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other>>>>




figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and>>>>
follow, 



but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of>>>>
thinking 



(what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the>>>>
box").>> Are these 



goals that every GED student has or should have.>>>> No. Should>
they be? Not 



necessarily. But for students who see the GED>>>> or high>
school diploma as a 



way out of poverty, as a stepping stone>>>> to stable> employment
and 



self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door>>>> to> successful
post-secondary 



learning, these are the skills we should>>>> be> teaching
and measuring: 



academic skills, including critical>>>> thinking> and creativity.>>
I invite 



your comments on this.>> David J.>>>> Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>
On Oct 26, 



2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge,>>>> Toni F wrote:>>> When
we are referring to 



creativity do we mean>>>> teaching critical>> thinking
skills which once our 



students know how>>>> to think in a>> critical thinking
way they will be 



successful in>>>> achieving their>> education and other
life goals. However, 



just like>>>> K-12 education,>> adult education is captured
on the high 



stakes>>>> spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifles
creativity and>>>> 



teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>>
BHCC>> Adult>>>> Education & 



Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>>
From:>>>> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov




[mailto:assessment->>
bounces at nifl.gov]
On>>>> Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: 



Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>>>>>> To: The Assessment
Discussion List>> 



Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re:>>>> GED Discussion - what you
need to 



know!>>>>>>>> I agree that>>>> creativity
is not the enemy of success on 



standardized>> test. We need>>>> look no further then
those who have been 



successful>> on any type of>>>> test. We tend to use
terms like natuarally 



gifted,>> just smart, etc.>>>> If you speak to these
folks they are well>> 



rounded, enjoy reading,>>>> mvies, theater, they tend to use
terms like>> "I 



don't know, I just>>>> know stuff." Researchers have found
that>> this may be 



the reason for>>>> disparity between ethnicity. I believe>>
there is more 



disparity>>>> between socio economic background then>>
ethnicity. Exposure to 



the>>>> arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine,
legal issues as part of>>>> 



your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing>>>>
then 



someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard.>>>>
My students 



participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those>>>>
that "get into 



it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that>>>>
feel it is a waste of 



time>> and they just want to "study for the GED">>>>
are generally frustrated>> 



when "all of their hard work does not pay>>>> off like
they would>> like." 



Creativity also leads to retention;>>>> especially those>>
activities that have 



to be completed in increments.>>>> Let's bring on>> more
creativity!>>>> Shirley 



Ledet>>>> GED>>>> Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>>
djrosen at comcast.net




wrote:>>>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am
a proponent of creativity in adult 



literacy>>>> education -->> indeed in all education.
As Marc Tucker, President 



of>>>> the National>> Center for Education and the Economy,
has said in a>>>> 



presention>> recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy,>>>>




http://>>; www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html
, the U.S.>>>> education>>>> system 



-->> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive>>>>
without high>> 



academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED>>>>
teachers and 



administrators believe that their>> students will not>>>>
pass the GED unless 



they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to>>>> pass
the test, that 



creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster.>>>>
(Many K-12 teachers,>> 



administrators or policy makers also believe>>>> creativity
distracts>> from 



passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be>>>> the one to raise
this>> issue, but 



it's the key question on the minds>>>> of many GED teachers>>
and 



administrators, so I invite the panelists>>>> to address it.>>>>
Is creativity a 



distraction or is it essential for>>>> success? Why?>>>>>>
David J. Rosen>> 



djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>
-------------- Original message ---------------------->> 



From: "Marie>>>> Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>>
We've had several new subscribers 



over the>>>> past day, and so I>> wanted to>>>
give a quick reminder where you 



can>>>> get the information on this>>> discussion.
For the full 



announcement,>>>> information on guests, and>>> suggested
resources go 



to:>>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>>>>




07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from
yesterday ->>>> there 



were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>>>>>>




http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>
Please>>>> post 



your questions and also your own experiences to share>>>>>>
now!>>>>>> 



Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion
List>>>> Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




Marie Cora>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>
NIFL Assessment Discussion 



List>>>> Moderator>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




From:>>>> "Marie Cora">> To:>> Subject:
[Assessment 942] GED Discussion - 



what>>>> you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14
+0000>>>> Hi>>>> 



everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers
over the past day,>>>> and 



so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the>>>>
information>> 



on this discussion. For the full announcement,>>>> information
on>> guests, and 



suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>>




07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the
posts from yesterday ?>>>> there 



were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at:>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>>




assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>>>>>>
Please post your questions and also your 



own experiences to share>>>> now!>>>>>>>>
Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> 



Assessment Discussion>>>> List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Marie Cora>>>>>>>> 



marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>>
NIFL Assessment Discussion List>>>> 



Moderator>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>>>>>>




Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>>
To unsubscribe or>>>> change 



your subscription settings, please go to>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>




Email delivered to>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>
------------------------------->> 



National>>>> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing
list>>>>>> 



Assessment at nifl.gov>>
To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>>> settings, 



please go to>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>
Email 



delivered to>>>> msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------->> 



National>>>> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing
list>>>>>> 



Assessment at nifl.gov>>
To unsubscribe or change your subscription>>>> settings, 



please go to>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>
Email 



delivered to>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>
-------------------------------> 



National>>>> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing
list> 



Assessment at nifl.gov>>>>>
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, 



please go to>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
Email 



delivered to>>>> kgotthardt at comcast.net>>
-------------------------------> 



National>>>> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing
list> 



Assessment at nifl.gov>>>>>
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, 



please go to>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>
Email 



delivered to>>>> macsimoin at hotmail.com>>>>>>>>
_________________________________________________________________>>>>




Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?.>>>>
Stop by 



today.>>>> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?>>>>




ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline>>>> ------------------------------->>>>
National 



Institute for Literacy>>>> Assessment mailing list>>>>
Assessment at nifl.gov>>>>




To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>>>>




http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>
Email delivered to 



andreawilder at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------>>>>>> 



Message: 4>>> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:39:24 -0400>>>
From: "David J. 



Rosen">>>> Subject: [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library
of Teaching Skills>>> 



To: The Assessment Discussion List>>>> Message-ID: >>>
Content-Type: text/plain; 



charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;>>> format=flowed>>>>>>
....and the Web address 



for MLoTS is:>>>>>> http://www.mlots.org>>>>>>
David J. Rosen>>> 



djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>
On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:17 PM, David J. Rosen 



wrote:>>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>>>>>>
The Media Library of Teaching Skills (MLoTS) 



project, a free Web->>>> based library of short digital videos
of adult 



education classrooms>>>> and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created
reading and 



numeracy>>>> videos and over 30 other videos, including those
from:>>>>>>>> ? 



NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit (ESOL and basic literacy>>>>
tutoring)>>>> 



? NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology),>>>> ?
OTAN (integrating 



technology)>>>> and>>>> ? CLESE (an informal assessment
to capture what 



low-literate ESOL>>>> learners can and cannot do with literacy)>>>>>>>>
I hope 



you will take a look. If you know of other good classroom or>>>>
tutoring short 



videos in digital form, please let me know. I am>>>> hoping
that MLoTS will 



become a large, "one-stop" collection for>>>> adult
literacy education classroom 



videos.>>>>>>>> David J. Rosen>>>>
djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




------------------------------->>>> National Institute for
Literacy>>>> 



Assessment mailing list>>>> Assessment at nifl.gov>>>>
To unsubscribe or change 



your subscription settings, please go to>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>




Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




------------------------------>>>>>> Message: 5>>>
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 



23:17:38 -0400>>> From: "David J. Rosen">>>>
Subject: [Assessment 1015] GED 



preparation and creativity>>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>>>>
Message-ID: 




>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed>>>>>>





Hello Andrea,>>>>>> On Oct 27, 2007, you wrote:>>>>>>>
Has anybody yet in this 



conversation defined 1. critical reading>>>> and 2. creativity?>>>>>>
Here's 



more on defining creativity. To begin with, it's quite>>> unlikely
that we will 



agree on a definition. There are more than 60>>> of them in the
psychological 



literature (Taylor, 1988), and as far>>> as I am aware there is
no standardized 



measurement instrument for>>> creativity. Some believe it is inherited;
some 



believe it can be>>> taught; some believe it can be nurtured or
encouraged. I 



believe that>>> some kinds of creativity can be taught or at least
nurtured and 



that>>> it involves a set of mental activities often closely aligned
with the>>> 



kind of mental activities we call critical thinking. Most of us would>>>
agree, 



I believe, that a key element is originality, but we might>>>
differ in 



describing the paths to it. And it may look different in>>> different
contexts, 



in the sciences, in the arts, in technology, and>>> in the creative
problem 



solving of daily living.>>>>>> In the context in which
I raised the issue of 



creativity, I was>>> thinking of the application of new ideas,
what some would 



refer to as>>> innovation or ingenuity. It is this applied creativity
that I 



believe>>> Marc Tucker had in mind as something that Americans
have 



historically>>> valued and excelled at, that has been an element
of American 



economic>>> success, and that may be undervalued or lost now in
the education>>> 



systems' rush toward performance on high stakes standardized tests.>>>>>>
Are 



adult literacy education students (including basic education,>>>
secondary 



education and ESOL) capable of this kind of creativity? If>>>
so, should we 



nurture it? I believe they are and that we should. In>>> many
GED programs I 



have seen, it is not nourished, usually not even>>> acknowledged
in program 



goals or objectives. And I have never seen>>> it measured. This
indicates to me 



that, as a field, we do not value>>> and support student creativity.
I agree 



with Marc Tucker that, if we>>> are interested in Americans' global




competitiveness that we should>>> value creativity, and of course,
there are 



other good reasons to>>> nourish creativity.>>>>>>
What do you think about 



this?>>>>>>>>> * Taylor, C.W. (1988). "Various
approaches to and definitions 



of>>> creativity", in ed. Sternberg, R.J.: The nature of
creativity:>>> 



Contemporary psychological perspectives. Cambridge University Press.>>>>>>
David 



J. Rosen>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------>>>>>> 



Message: 6>>> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 07:51:18 -0400>>>
From: "Donna 



Chambers">>>> Subject: [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion
- what you need to 



know!>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion List">>>>
Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: 



text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";>>>
reply-type=original>>>>>> 



Mary Lynn,>>>>>> Your argument to push learners forward
is a common belief. I am 



not>>> suggesting to hold learners back, but if we are to prepare
them for>>> 



just>>> "passing the test" we are overlooking the "ASE"
responsibility of our>>> 



job.>>> Preparing the learner to possess the expected academic
skills of a>>> 



high>>> school student and be ready to transition to college level
academics>>> 



is in>>> the learners' best interest in respect to time and money.
Community>>> 



College should not have to remediate adult basic skills, and yet they>>>
do. 



If>>> the GED were to be more aligned with the tests required
to enter>>> 



community>>> college, such as the Accuplacer, the transition would
be smoother, 



but>>> it is>>> not. Preparation for the learners next
steps, which includes 



basic>>> and>>> secondary fundamental skills, is the
responsibility of Adult 



Literacy.>>>>>> Donna Chambers>>>>>>>>>
----- Original Message ----->>> From: 



"Mary Lynn Simons">>>> To: "The Assessment Discussion
List">>>> Sent: Saturday, 



October 27, 2007 9:01 PM>>> Subject: [Assessment 1012] Re: GED
Discussion - what 



you need to know!>>>>>>>>>>>> Community
Colleges test students when they enter 



and then teach them>>> accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically>>>




decide>>> what is best for our students beyond what they need
to know to be 



able>>> to>>> pass the test. We must not hold them back.
Let them get to college 



or>>> training as fast as possible.>>>>>>>>>>>>
----------------------------------------> 



From:>>> Kgotthardt at comcast.net>
To:>>> assessment at nifl.gov>
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 



2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject:>>> [Assessment 1007] Re: GED
Discussion - what you 



need to know!>> David,>>> I>>> agree that creativity
is essential in GED 



programs, especially if>>>> students>>> are planning
to go on to college! 



Students who pass the GED with>>>> minimal>>> ability
to freely think 



creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh>>> options are
usually at a loss 



in the college classroom. Most colleges>>>> require program
elements such as 



"writing across the curriculum." As>>> we>>>>
know, writing requires abstract 



thought, the kind adults need to>>> develop.>>>>>
Even basic college writing 



classes require understanding and using>>>> rhetorical patterns
found in the 



descriptive essay and more.>>> Humanities>>>> courses
demand students to 



understand and even implement creative>>> forms,>>>>
figures of speech, 



figurative language, and more. For students to>>> truly>>>>
understand history, 



they must be able to visualize different time>>> periods.>>>>
Symbolic thought 



translates into statistics and math classes in which>>>> graphs,
numbers and 



equations are used to communicate ideas. The list>>> goes>>>>
on.>> Someone here 



or in another posting made the remark that students>>> in a>>>
GED> class who 



are not reading in class are not practicing reading at>>> all.>>>
If> the 



instructor is writing on the board, if the students are>>> writing,
if>>> the> 



students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of>>>
more>>>> 



formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take>>>




that>>>> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline
that we 



might>>> not>>>> get with GED students. But especially
with students who want to 



pursue>>>> higher education after earning the GED, we need
to have the time 



to>>> teach>>>> them to think critically.>>
Finally, I just now ran across an 



essay>>> from>>> Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied
in a long time but did in 



my past>>> lives.>>> The essay demonstrates how> creativity
is used in the 



college>>> classroom as>>> well as what GED students
can> expect in college 



(though perhaps not>>> to this>>> extent, depending on
the> teacher and the 



class).>>> http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>>
I'm a firm believer 



in>>> extensive transitional services for GED students> planning
to attend>>> 



college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between>>>
public>>> 



schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED students to>>>




succeed.>>> Part of these discussions should include> creativity
used and 



expected>>> in>>> every academic setting.>>>
Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL 



Online>>> Instructor> Prince William County Public Schools>
Adult Education>>>> 



P.O. Box>>> 389> Manassas, VA 20108> work 703-791-8387>
fax>>> 



703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> From:>>>
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov




[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On>>>>
Behalf>>> Of David J. Rosen> Sent: 



Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To:
The>>> Assessment Discussion List> 



Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED>>> Discussion ->>>
what you need to know!>>> 



Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we>>> mean>>>
by creativity. Good 



question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a>>>
means>>> to an end -- that 



is, with creative teaching> approaches will more>>> students>>>
have more and 



higher academic skills,> better test scores? Or is>>> creativity>>>
itself an 



end -- that is, do we> want students to be both academically>>>
prepared and 



creative? Or> both? And where do critical skills fit>>> in?>>
I>>> would argue, 



as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic>>>> skills>>>
and 



creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both> these>>>
catregories, 



both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary>>>> education>>>
(e.g. GED) 



programs should provide students with the> opportunity to>>>
have>>> academic 



skills that are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong>>>
critical 



thinking skills (these may be inseparable> from strong>>> academic>>>
skills), 



and the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is>>>
the>>> 



assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary>>>




education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through>>>




standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and>>>
if so>>> 



how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is>>>




measuring>>>> creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right,
we are not paying>>> 



attention to>>> one of the> greatest economic assets, one of
the historic 



strengths of>>> the>>> U.S. I> agree with Tucker and
believe that the nearly 



exclusive focus>>> on>>> high> stakes basic skills
tests for K-12, and the focus 



on only>>> traditional>>>> basic skills for the GED
tests disrespects important 



creative skills>>>> like>>> the ability to look at
a problem freshly and from 



different>>>> perspectives,>>> the ability to try
out and evaluate a range of> 



solutions, the ability>>> to>>> represent an idea with
an image, a moving> 



image, a drawing; a>>> metaphor or>>> other figurative
language, or> rhetoric; 



and the ability to understand>>> and>>> follow, but instead
to> disregard 



instructions or traditional paths of>>> thinking (what we now>
often describe as 



"thinking outside the>>> box").>> Are>>>
these goals that every GED student has 



or should have. No. Should>>>> they be?>>> Not necessarily.
But for students who 



see the GED or high> school>>> diploma as>>> a way
out of poverty, as a stepping 



stone to stable> employment and>>> self-sufficiency, as a key
to open the door 



to> successful>>> post-secondary>>> learning, these
are the skills we should be> 



teaching and measuring:>>> academic skills, including critical
thinking> and 



creativity.>> I>>> invite>>> your comments on this.>>
David J. Rosen> 



djrosen at comcast.net>>>>
On>>> Oct 26,>>> 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F 



wrote:>>> When we are referring to>>> creativity do we
mean teaching critical>> 



thinking skills which once>>> our>>> students know how
to think in a>> critical 



thinking way they will be>>> successful in achieving their>>
education and other 



life goals.>>> However,>>> just like K-12 education,>>
adult education is 



captured on the high>>> stakes>>> spinning wheel of>>
accountability which 



stifles creativity and>>> teachers>>> teach to the>>
test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> 



BHCC>> Adult Education &>>> Transitions>>>
Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From:




assessment-bounces at nifl.gov>>>
[mailto:assessment->>
bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf 



Of shirley ledet>>>>> Sent:>>> Thursday, October
25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The 



Assessment Discussion>>> List>>>>> Subject: [Assessment
1001] Re: GED Discussion 



- what you need to>>> know!>>>>>>>> I
agree that creativity is not the enemy of 



success on>>> standardized>> test. We need look no further
then those who have 



been>>> successful>> on any type of test. We tend to use
terms like 



natuarally>>> gifted,>> just smart, etc. If you speak to
these folks they are 



well>>>>> rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend
to use terms 



like>>>>> "I>>> don't know, I just know stuff."
Researchers have found that>> 



this may>>> be>>> the reason for disparity between ethnicity.
I believe>> there 



is more>>> disparity between socio economic background then>>
ethnicity. 



Exposure>>> to>>> the arts, banking industry, faculty,>>
medicine, legal issues 



as part>>> of>>> your everyday life tends to offer>>
more of an advantage when 



testing>>> then>>> someone whose only exposure>>
is to go to school and study 



hard. My>>> students>>> participate in a>> quite
a few creative projects and 



those that "get>>> into>>> it" tend to>>
do better in all subjects. Those that 



feel it is a waste>>> of>>> time>> and they just
want to "study for the GED" are 



generally>>> frustrated>>>>> when "all of
their hard work does not pay off like 



they would>> like.">>> Creativity also leads to retention;
especially those>> 



activities that>>> have>>> to be completed in increments.
Let's bring on>> more 



creativity!>>>>>>> Shirley>>> Ledet>>>>
GED Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> 



djrosen at comcast.net>>>
wrote:>>>>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent
of 



creativity in adult literacy>>> education -->> indeed in
all education. As Marc 



Tucker, President of>>> the>>> National>> Center
for Education and the Economy, 



has said in a>>> presention>>>>> recently to the
National Commission on Adult 



Literacy, http://>>>>>>>>; www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html
, the U.S. 



education system -->>>>> and he>>> includes adult
education, cannot be 



competitive without high>> academic>>> standards AND creativity.>>>>
But many 



GED teachers and administrators>>> believe that their>>
students will not pass 



the GED unless they focus>>> on>>> skills and>>
knowledge needed to pass the 



test, that creativity is a>>>>> "distraction"
and a time-waster. (Many K-12 



teachers,>> administrators>>> or>>> policy makers
also believe creativity 



distracts>> from passing high>>> stakes>>> tests.)
I hate to be the one to raise 



this>> issue, but it's the key>>> question on the minds
of many GED teachers>> 



and administrators, so I>>> invite>>> the panelists to
address it.>>>> Is 



creativity a distraction or is it>>> essential for success? Why?>>>>>>
David J. 



Rosen>>>>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>
-------------- Original>>> message 



---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>>
Hi>>> everyone,>>>>>>>>> We've 



had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted>>>
to>>>>>> 



give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this>>>>>>




discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>>>>>




suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>>>




07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from
yesterday ->>> there>>> 



were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>>>>>




http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>
Please>>> post>>> 



your questions and also your own experiences to share>> now!>>>>>>>>>




Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion
List>>> Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




Marie Cora>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>>>>
NIFL Assessment Discussion 



List Moderator>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




From:>>> "Marie>>> Cora">> To:>>
Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what 



you>>> need to>>> know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007
14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi 



everyone,>>>>>>>>>>> We?ve>>>
had several new subscribers over the past day, and 



so I>> wanted to>>> give a>>> quick reminder where
you can get the information>> 



on this discussion.>>> For>>> the full announcement,
information on>> guests, 



and suggested>>> resources go>>> to:>>>>>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>>




07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>>>>> If you
missed the posts from yesterday ? there 



were a couple ? you>>>>> can>>> catch up in the
archives at: 



http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>>>>>
assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> Please 



post your questions and also>>> your>>> own experiences
to share now!>>>>>>>> 



Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>>>>>
Assessment Discussion List 



Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Marie Cora>>>>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>>




NIFL Assessment Discussion List>>> Moderator>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




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