Hello Jackie and All,

I haven't been in town to read all the entries on critical thinking,
but what I have perused appears to focus on the development of critical
thinking through literacy practices. Some of us who offer professional
development related to numeracy find it a perfect venue for exploring
critical thinking. Graphs, charts, and data analysis  in particular,
offer great launches for discussions about 'whose interests are served,'
and ' how else might you interpret this data'  or 'how does the choice
of incremental intervals on the y axis affect your view of the data.'

In addition, the topics chosen for problems, which can be selected from
areas of social justice concern, can set the stage for critical thinking
in numeracy.

I'd be interested to hear how others out there in the field use
numeracy instruction and professional development to foster critical
thinking.

Tricia Donovan
 

SABES "Training Leaders in Adult Basic Education"
 
Tricia Donovan, Ed.D.
SABES CRC
World Education
44 Farnsworth St.
Boston, MA 02210
617-482-9485 x3785
Fax 617-482-0617



>>> <professionaldevelopment-request at nifl.gov> 7/14/2008 9:26 AM >>>

Send ProfessionalDevelopment mailing list submissions to
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Today's Topics:

   1. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2272] Re: Whatdo
      wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? (Bonnie
Odiorne)
   2. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2273] Re: Critical Thinking in
      Professional Development (Bonnie Odiorne)
   3. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2274] Re: Whatdo
      wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? (Steve
Kaufmann)
   4. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2275]  On dialogue and critical
      thinking (Taylor, Jackie)
   5. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2276] A topic not mentioned in the
      critical thinking discussion (Rose M Brandt)
   6. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2277] Re: Whatdo
      wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? (Janet
Isserlis)
   7. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2278] Re:	Whatdo
      wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? (Jane Greiner)
   8. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2279] Re: On dialogue and critical
      thinking (Ochieng kh)
   9. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2280] Re: On dialogue and critical
      thinking (Steve Kaufmann)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:11:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2272] Re: Whatdo
	wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking?
To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List
	<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <327004.60298.qm at web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Kearney, and all,
Rhetoric, though I was not necessarily "defending" this discipline, is
at the foundation of almost all composition courses, and thus important
for those seeking post-secondary education, I was concerned at the
moment of the post about the connection between language and activism,
between language and action. Rhetoric is a "metacompetency" that gets
students to think about language and how they think, metacognitiion,?and
thus is on the way to critical thinking. In addition to becoming more
aware of their own language, it also sensitizes students to language
strategies that can be effective, or manipulate, and so they could study
their own lives, the media and consumerism that surrounds them, and not
believe that just because something is in print (or on the Internet)
makes it so. If they see their peers becoming victimized by such
manipulation, like the advertisements of a certain phonics system on
Hispanic tv, they will take action.
Bonnie Odiorne, Post University



----- Original Message ----
From: Kearney Lykins <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com>
To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List
<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:11:19 PM
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2271] Re: Whatdo
wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking?


Steve,
?
In defense of the study of rhetoric, it is precisely because it?is the
one field of study that openly acknowledges and examines the
relationship between emotions and persuasion,?that it is especially
valuable in?helping one?to be a more critical (wiser)?thinker. Yes, this
knowledge can be used perniciously, but that is a question of ethics,
and indeed is a concern for every field of study. 
?
Anyone who has ever participated in forensic speech (debate club) can
surely attest to how?taking "the other side"?of an argument?improves
one's critical thinking abilities. 
?
Regards,
?
Kearney
?

?
----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List
<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 2:52:42 PM
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2266] Re: Whatdo
wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking?

Bonnie,

I agree with you. Rhetoric as practiced by the ancients is a good
discipline. It helps you to organize your thoughts in order to persuade
others. This forces you to think about logical connections between
ideas. It does not make you more open minded. Most of us arrive at our
points of view emotionally, rather than through some clear "critical
thinking" path. The skills of rhetoric are useful tools for persuading
others of our beliefs. I do not think that most English teachers, myself
included, can teach our learners to think, critically or otherwise, nor
is it our mandate.
Here is what I said recently in reply to a questioner at one of my
youtubes.

1) You can teach methods of organizing your thoughts in order to
express them convincingly. I don't believe ESL teachers can teach how to
think, how to be open to new ideas, how to question assumptions, without
imposing their own assumptions. We arrive at our views based more on
emotion than logic, and use logic to justify these views.
2)Language is part of your culture and affects your world view. Each
successive language you learn opens your mind to new perspectives. 
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Message: 2
Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:31:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2273] Re: Critical Thinking in
	Professional Development
To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List
	<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <919454.53944.qm at web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7"

In my PD role of training Writing Center tutors, I have to make sure
they learn to ask questions, and not assume they know what the student
wants to say. To ask a student to articulate meaning when s/he hasn't
stated it clearly is a step to clear writing, but also clear thinking. I
caution them about imposing their own interpretation--even
grammatical--on a student's work, and ask the student to find what might
have gone wrong and try to correct it. In other words, I try, as much as
possible, though not as often as I'd like in my own tutoring one-on-one
practice, especially erlectronically, when I'm crunched for time and
deadlines (theirs and mind) to ask the student to generate the ideas if
they're not stated correctly, clearly, or more strategically. Most
faculty when they see a badly written paper just assume the student
doesn't know how to write, and dismiss it. To tease the underlying
thoughts out through an entire writing process (from
 brainstorming on) or form a draft is the ideal Writing Center
relationship. The students think they're just learning to write
correctly, but they're really learning to pay attention to their
thinking. I also teach that in reading comprehension: ask the students
to pay attention to how they read--even if it is still on the level of
comprehension. Could they learn more effective strategies? How could
this help them understand and be more actively engaged in what they're
reading, and not just dismiss it as "boring." Again, they're learning
how to think, not "just" to read. In other PD roles as tutor trainer my
biggest battle was to caution tutors against unconscious bias, and we
had exercises for that, as well as active listening. Brookfield, in his
article on assessing critical thinking, has a situational format of
story-telling, detectives, and an umpire to detect unconscious bias in
any or all of the participants, contending that critical thinking
 cannot be assessed in a standardized but only a situational way.
Enough from me before I become more incoherent than usual.
Bonnie Odiorne, Post University



----- Original Message ----
From: "Taylor, Jackie" <jataylor at utk.edu>
To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List
<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 3:09:10 PM
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2265] Critical Thinking in
Professional Development


Dear Colleagues,
This has been a fascinating discussion and I am working on a draft
compilation of the wide range of ways we?ve said that we understand
critical thinking, strategies for critical thinking and student
involvement, along with links to threads of discussion sorted by theme.
?
In the meantime I?d like to call our attention to a point Phillip made
and a question Cynthia raised:
?
What are the implications are for professional development? Do we
promote critical exploration of issues in professional development and
if so, how? 
?
I welcome your thoughts.
?
Best, Jackie
?
Jackie Taylor, List Moderator, jataylor at utk.edu 
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:43:00 -0700
From: "Steve Kaufmann" <steve at thelinguist.com>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2274] Re: Whatdo
	wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking?
To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List"
	<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
	<f1a6e820807111443o7847fda9r827dd69b211fb64a at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Kearney,

I do not dispute that debating or the practice of rhetoric can improve
one's
ability to reason. I also believe that all rhetorical techniques,
include
hyperbole, allegory and even sarcasm have their place. Defending one's
position, countering these techniques, and using them, is a good
exercize in
reasoning, even though the assumptions are usually arrived at before
the
"critical thinking" begins.

Unfortunately, the recent trend in educational circles seems to favour
"dialoguing", whereby we pretend to agree with whatever is said, and
look
for points that we have in common, and should avoid trying to persuade
anyone of one's point of view. This leads to a sterile discussion. It
only
works if everyone actually does agree, or if contrary views can be
suppressed..

Here, on this forum, it has appeared to me that "critical thinking" has
been
discussed in the sense that English teachers are looking for ways to
help
their students to challenge basic their assumptions as part of their
English
learning, and at a very early stage in their English learning. I feel
that
this is unrealistic. Try persuading a religious person to challenge
the
basic assumptions of their religion and see how far you get.

Rhetoric, is a valuable and an advanced skill, and can only be taught
after
one has a sufficient range of vocabulary to use it effectively.

I am of the opinion that beginner ESL learners should be allowed to
listen
to the language and try to enjoy it, with little requirement to state
what
their assumptions are on anything.

Steve

On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Kearney Lykins
<kearney_lykins at yahoo.com>
wrote:


> Steve,

>

>

>

> In defense of the study of rhetoric, it is precisely because it is

the one

> field of study that openly acknowledges and examines the

relationship

> between emotions and persuasion, that it is especially valuable in

helping

> one to be a more critical (wiser) thinker. Yes, this knowledge can be

used

> perniciously, but that is a question of ethics, and indeed is a

concern for

> every field of study.

>

>

>

> Anyone who has ever participated in forensic speech (debate club)

can

> surely attest to how taking "the other side" of an argument improves

one's

> critical thinking abilities.

>

>

>

> Regards,

>

>

>

> Kearney

>

>

>

>

>  ----- Original Message ----

> From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>

> To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List <

> professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 2:52:42 PM

> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2266] Re: Whatdo

> wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking?

>

> Bonnie,

>

> I agree with you. Rhetoric as practiced by the ancients is a good

> discipline. It helps you to organize your thoughts in order to

persuade

> others. This forces you to think about logical connections between

ideas. It

> does not make you more open minded. Most of us arrive at our points

of view

> emotionally, rather than through some clear "critical thinking" path.

The

> skills of rhetoric are useful tools for persuading others of our

beliefs. I

> do not think that most English teachers, myself included, can teach

our

> learners to think, critically or otherwise, nor is it our mandate.

> Here is what I said recently in reply to a questioner at one of my

> youtubes.

>  1) You can teach methods of organizing your thoughts in order to

express

> them convincingly. I don't believe ESL teachers can teach how to

think, how

> to be open to new ideas, how to question assumptions, without

imposing their

> own assumptions. We arrive at our views based more on emotion than

logic,

> and use logic to justify these views.

> 2)Language is part of your culture and affects your world view. Each

> successive language you learn opens your mind to new perspectives.

>

> <http://ca.youtube.com/video_response_upload?v=to9asMOReyY>

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult Literacy Professional Development mailing list

> professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov 

>

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/professionaldevelopment 

>

> Professional Development section of the Adult Literacy Education

Wiki

>

>

http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Adult_Literacy_Professional_Development


>




-- 
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com 
1-604-922-8514
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:29:42 -0400
From: "Taylor, Jackie" <jataylor at utk.edu>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2275]  On dialogue and critical
	thinking
To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List"
	<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
	<0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC02563A9C at KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Hi Steve, (All)

 

You wrote:

 

"Unfortunately, the recent trend in educational circles seems to
favour
"dialoguing", whereby we pretend to agree with whatever is said, and
look for points that we have in common, and should avoid trying to
persuade anyone of one's point of view. This leads to a sterile
discussion. It only works if everyone actually does agree, or if
contrary views can be suppressed.."

 

I disagree with how you are characterizing dialogue. Do you mean to
equate dialogue with some type of cooperation or consensus, or group
think..? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink) 

 

I believe dialogue is about presenting one's point of view, but then
looking for meaning, suspending assumptions (i.e. suspend as in to
hold
out assumptions and examine them), being open to changing one's
position... Dialogue and the knowledge constructed as a result are
greater than the sum of its parts and what is constructed is only as
rich as the diverse perspectives brought to the table. It depends on
seeking authentic meaning and a 'safe space' so that individuals feel
comfortable expressing their views (thus eliciting more diverse
perspectives). It does include finding common ground, but I see it as
being more about constructing new knowledge, attitudes, and the group
dynamics needed for that construction. 

 

And what does this have to do with critical thinking and student
involvement?

 

One uses critical thinking in dialogue. What does "the other" mean by
what she said? How is what I'm saying reflected in the other's
position?
How is it not? How might I understand the other better? What are the
"right questions" I need to ask in order to do that? All too often I
think we are afraid to "ask back" for fear of appearing somehow "less
than" or as if one might "not know" what the other means.

 

It also levels the playing field and the instructor or facilitator is
not perceived as "the expert" with all the answers; both students and
instructors have expertise to contribute. It would be interesting, I
think, to explore strategies for facilitating dialogue vs. debate.

 

As always, I welcome others' thoughts.

 

Best, Jackie

 

Jackie Taylor

jataylor at utk.edu 

 

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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:33:36 -0500
From: Rose M Brandt <rmbrandt at juno.com>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2276] A topic not mentioned in the
	critical thinking discussion
To: professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov 
Message-ID: <20080713.163340.3800.3.rmbrandt at juno.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

I just finished reading through the critical thinking discussion. I'd
like to share a thought before it closes on Monday. Unless I read too
quickly and missed it, I don't think there was any discussion of
critical
thinking in math. I believe that one reason that our educational
system
does not produce people with better math skills is the lack of focus
on
critical thinking in math as opposed to simply mastering operations or
learning formulas.

Rose Brandt
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Message: 6
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:05:19 -0400
From: Janet Isserlis <Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2277] Re: Whatdo
	wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking?
To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List
	<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <C4A0C74F.2332B%Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Steve and all

I don't think you're saying that English learning should be like music
appreciation ? that one can enjoy either (language or music) with no
basis
of prior expectation, concepts or assumptions?  That the language or
the
music will just be heard and appreciated?

Surely, part of the language learning process involves
receiving/hearing/taking in.  But for learning to occur, active
processes of
meaning-making have to happen.

In order to learn, to make meaning, there needs to be some basis of
prior
understanding, of a world view, yes, of assumptions.  The critical
thinking
part (in the target language, in this case English) may, for some, be
merely
a matter of learning the words to translate thoughts from a first
language
into English).  For others, it's a process of asking questions,
weighing
options, learning more about possibilities and consequences.

Janet




From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com>
Reply-To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List
<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:43:00 -0700



> I am of the opinion that beginner ESL learners should be allowed to

listen to
the language and try to enjoy it, with little requirement to state what
their
assumptions are on anything.

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Message: 7
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:19:28 -0400
From: "Jane Greiner" <jgreiner at proliteracy.org>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2278] Re:	Whatdo
	wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking?
To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List"
	<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
	<DBF40CF21F685B45B1D163F82E43A221AB284B at miller.proliteracy.org>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Cynthia and all,
Thanks for the question about PD that supports teachers' critical
thinking skills. My concern is not that teachers do not think
critically, but that the time and institutional support available for
critical reflection on practice is not always available - for myriad
reasons. 

Study circle, action research, and peer mentoring all seem to be ways
to do this, but all require lots of back-up from the organizations.

I'm particularly interested in how technology and onine forums can be
used to support teachers' critical thinking about their practice.

Jane

Jane Greiner
Professional Development Coordinator
ProLiteracy

-----Original Message-----
From: Cynthia Peters [mailto:cynthia_peters at worlded.org] 
Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:18 AM
To: professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov 
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2258] Re:Whatdo
wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking?


Philip -- I think what you're raising is important. Can you share any
strategies you've used to help students feel comfortable expressing
what
they know about the world?

Also, do you have any thoughts on how to do PD in a way that develops
*teachers'* critical thinking skills. I do believe it's a skill for
all
of us to be honing all the time.

Cynthia



>>> "Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 07/10/08 5:09 PM

>>>

Good points, Andy.  I appreciate your response.  I think I should have
said that their critical thinking skills lead them to hide what they
know about the world - it is a strategy that has kept them safe in
situations that they felt may pose danger. 

What I think we might need to include in PD is the fact that adult
ELLs,
no matter their level, often have good critical thinking skills.  Some
teachers may at times perceive the low level adult ELL students as
persons who are underdeveloped in their critical thinking skills, and
not, as you said, the same as they are, people who do have critical
thinking skills even though they may apply them inconsistently, and
who
could perhaps benefit from thinking in new and varied ways.  


CONTACT INFORMATION
Philip Anderson
Adult ESOL Program
Florida Department of Education
Tel (850) 245-9450

 

Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of
service
you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your
feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is
committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and
quality
of services provided to you.Simply use the link below.  Thank you in
advance for completing the survey.
 

http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson@fldoe.org|17:04:04%20Thu%2010%20Jul%202008

 



 -----Original Message-----
From: professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov 
[mailto:professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andy
Nash
Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:16 PM
To: professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov 
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2253] Re: Whatdo
wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking?

Hmm, I see it more as a matter of being inconsistent in where and how
we
use those critical thinking skills. I consider myself a pretty
critical
thinker, but there are many times I'll hear someone else questioning
something that I bought hook, line, and sinker - I didn't think at all
critically about it. I believe that adult students are the same, which
is why it's useful to invite critical thinking in new and varied areas.

Andy Nash


>>> "Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 07/10/08 3:46 PM

>>>


What I am getting at here is that it may be important to recognize
that
adult ELLs brim with critical thinking skills, but they also have
developed a (survival?) technique for hiding these skills from those
they perceive to be in authority and have more "school knowledge" than
they have.  Our professional development system may need to be sure to
prepare teachers for working successfully with these students.  

 CONTACT INFORMATION
Philip Anderson
Adult ESOL Program
Florida Department of Education
Tel (850) 245-9450


----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Adult Literacy Professional Development mailing list
professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov 
 
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/professionaldevelopment 

Professional Development section of the Adult Literacy Education Wiki 
http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Adult_Literacy_Professional_Devel

opment
----------------------------------------------------
National Institute for Literacy
Adult Literacy Professional Development mailing list
professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov 
 
To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to
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Professional Development section of the Adult Literacy Education Wiki 
http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Adult_Literacy_Professional_Development





------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:36:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ochieng kh <ochykheyr at yahoo.com>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2279] Re: On dialogue and critical
	thinking
To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List
	<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <738192.56203.qm at web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

I share immensely in Jackie' views. In my?view, dialogue is about
enriching and braodening horizons. It reconciles perspectives through
shared understanding. It also generates clarity and objectivity in so
far as issues and arguments are concerned. Best wishes,
Ochieng M. Khairalla
?
?
- On Sun, 7/13/08, Taylor, Jackie <jataylor at utk.edu> wrote:

From: Taylor, Jackie <jataylor at utk.edu>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2275] On dialogue and critical
thinking
To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List"
<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 4:29 PM








Hi Steve, (All)
?
You wrote:
?
?Unfortunately, the recent trend in educational circles seems to favour
"dialoguing", whereby we pretend to agree with whatever is said, and
look for points that we have in common, and should avoid trying to
persuade anyone of one's point of view. This leads to a sterile
discussion. It only works if everyone actually does agree, or if
contrary views can be suppressed..?
?
I disagree with how you are characterizing dialogue. Do you mean to
equate dialogue with some type of cooperation or consensus, or group
think..? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink) 
?
I believe dialogue is about presenting one?s point of view, but then
looking for meaning, suspending assumptions (i.e. suspend as in to hold
out assumptions and examine them), being open to changing one?s
position? Dialogue and the knowledge constructed as a result are greater
than the sum of its parts and what is constructed is only as rich as the
diverse perspectives brought to the table. It depends on seeking
authentic meaning and a ?safe space? so that individuals feel
comfortable expressing their views (thus eliciting more diverse
perspectives). It does include finding common ground, but I see it as
being more about constructing new knowledge, attitudes, and the group
dynamics needed for that construction. 
?
And what does this have to do with critical thinking and student
involvement?
?
One uses critical thinking in dialogue. What does ?the other? mean by
what she said? How is what I?m saying reflected in the other?s position?
How is it not? How might I understand the other better? What are the
?right questions? I need to ask in order to do that? All too often I
think we are afraid to ?ask back? for fear of appearing somehow ?less
than? or as if one might ?not know? what the other means.
?
It also levels the playing field and the instructor or facilitator is
not perceived as ?the expert? with all the answers; both students and
instructors have expertise to contribute. It would be interesting, I
think, to explore strategies for facilitating dialogue vs. debate.
?
As always, I welcome others? thoughts.
?
Best, Jackie
?
Jackie Taylor
jataylor at utk.edu 
?----------------------------------------------------
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Message: 9
Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:47:08 -0700
From: "Steve Kaufmann" <steve at thelinguist.com>
Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2280] Re: On dialogue and critical
	thinking
To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List"
	<professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID:
	<f1a6e820807131947i191938fftac6134e80eddd870 at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"

Jacquie, Bonnie et al,

Everyone has a bias. It is not possible to not have a bias. When Bonnie
says


"they could study their own lives, the media and consumerism that
surrounds
them, and not believe that just because something is in print (or on
the
Internet) makes it so. If they see their peers becoming victimized by
such
manipulation, like the advertisements of a certain phonics system on
Hispanic tv, they will take action."

she is expressing her biases:that the students cannot judge things by
themselves, that consumerism (however defined) is bad (compared to
what
alternative), that the phonics system advertized on Hispanic TV is bad
or
their ads misleading.

I once attended a one day seminar on "What it means to be Canadian" put
on
by the Centre for Dialogue" of Simon Fraser University here in
Vancouver.

We were lectured to at the beginning by a student who warned the
audience,
half of whom were not students, not to try to convince people but to
"dialogue". We were encouraged to scribble down our random thoughts on
pieces of paper. At my table,  6 people, of varying origins (Greek,
Israeli,
German, Pakistani) myself and our student host talked about
multiculturalism. Four of us said that it was a bad idea because it
weakened
our sense of Canadian solidarity. The gentleman from Pakistan read a
poem in
favour of multiculturalism. When it came for our student host to
summarize
the discussion, she said that we all agreed on how wonderful Canada's
policy
of official multiculturalism was- that was her "consensus"!

When I had a chance to chat with the student who lectured us on
dialogue, he
immediately accused my of being a bigot because I told him that most
Canadians preferred to see immigrants assimilate, although it was, of
course, up to them.

It was obvious that these students only ever heard one side of most
arguments so I offered to go to the university to speak to their group.
They
agreed on condition that I would just sit around and dialogue and not
make a
presentation. I declined and they accepted my conditions.

University educated people, and especially university professors, are
not
more open-minded than humbler people. I hvae to go to dinner and will
continue later.

Steve

On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Taylor, Jackie <jataylor at utk.edu>
wrote:


>  Hi Steve, (All)

>

>

>

> You wrote:

>

>

>

> "Unfortunately, the recent trend in educational circles seems to

favour

> "dialoguing", whereby we pretend to agree with whatever is said, and

look

> for points that we have in common, and should avoid trying to

persuade

> anyone of one's point of view. This leads to a sterile discussion. It

only

> works if everyone actually does agree, or if contrary views can be

> suppressed.."

>

>

>

> I disagree with how you are characterizing dialogue. Do you mean to

equate

> dialogue with some type of cooperation or consensus, or group

think..? (

> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink)

>

>

>

> I believe dialogue is about presenting one's point of view, but then

> looking for meaning, suspending assumptions (i.e. suspend as in to

hold out

> assumptions and examine them), being open to changing one's

position?

> Dialogue and the knowledge constructed as a result are greater than

the sum

> of its parts and what is constructed is only as rich as the diverse

> perspectives brought to the table. It depends on seeking authentic

meaning

> and a 'safe space' so that individuals feel comfortable expressing

their

> views (thus eliciting more diverse perspectives). It does include

finding

> common ground, but I see it as being more about constructing new

knowledge,

> attitudes, and the group dynamics needed for that construction.

>

>

>

> And what does this have to do with critical thinking and student

> involvement?

>

>

>

> One uses critical thinking in dialogue. What does "the other" mean by

what

> she said? How is what I'm saying reflected in the other's position?

How is

> it not? How might I understand the other better? What are the "right

> questions" I need to ask in order to do that? All too often I think

we are

> afraid to "ask back" for fear of appearing somehow "less than" or as

if one

> might "not know" what the other means.

>

>

>

> It also levels the playing field and the instructor or facilitator is

not

> perceived as "the expert" with all the answers; both students and

> instructors have expertise to contribute. It would be interesting, I

think,

> to explore strategies for facilitating dialogue vs. debate.

>

>

>

> As always, I welcome others' thoughts.

>

>

>

> Best, Jackie

>

>

>

> Jackie Taylor

>

> jataylor at utk.edu 

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------------------

> National Institute for Literacy

> Adult Literacy Professional Development mailing list

> professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov 

>

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/professionaldevelopment 

>

> Professional Development section of the Adult Literacy Education

Wiki

>

>

http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Adult_Literacy_Professional_Development


>




-- 
Steve Kaufmann
www.lingq.com 
1-604-922-8514
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End of ProfessionalDevelopment Digest, Vol 34, Issue 21
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