Wow, I must say I disagree with Mary Lynn Simons. Many ABE/GEDstudents come in just wanting to pass the test, but have no critical thinking or transitional college skills. If we don't help them understand and acquire some of those skills, they will not be able to succeed with the transition to higher education. If not us, who? I think it is one of the first duties of any teacher to give students what they need to succeed in their class and beyond.  I don't feel it is paternal/maternalistic to help them set a course to success.
 
Thanks,
Mary Lynn Carver
ABE/GED Instructor
College of Lake County
Building 4, Office 405
19351 W. Washington Street
Grayslake, IL  60031
Phone:847/543-2677
mlcarver at clcillinois.edu
Fax: 847/543-7580
 
"Blessed are they who laugh at themselves, for they shall be constantly amused" -- Unknown
 
We now accept the fact that learning is a lifelong process of keeping abreast of change. And the most pressing task is to teach people how to learn. --Peter F. Drucker 

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov on behalf of assessment-request at nifl.gov
Sent: Sun 10/28/2007 8:23 AM
To: assessment at nifl.gov
Subject: Assessment Digest, Vol 25, Issue 33



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Today's Topics:

   1. [Assessment 1011]  Media Library of Teaching Skills
      (David J. Rosen)
   2. [Assessment 1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!
      (Mary Lynn Simons)
   3. [Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!
      (Andrea Wilder)
   4. [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching Skills
      (David J. Rosen)
   5. [Assessment 1015]  GED preparation and creativity (David J. Rosen)
   6. [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!
      (Donna Chambers)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 19:17:10 -0400
From: David J. Rosen <djrosen at comcast.net>
Subject: [Assessment 1011]  Media Library of Teaching Skills
To: The Technology and Literacy Discussion List <technology at nifl.gov>,
        The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List
        <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>,     The Assessment Discussion List
        <assessment at nifl.gov>,  The Adult English Language Learners Discussion
        List    <englishlanguage at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <1BB3689A-BB68-4D01-9B2E-5FCFC26EC3B9 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
        format=flowed

Colleagues,

The Media Library of Teaching Skills (MLoTS) project, a free Web-
based library of short digital videos of adult education classrooms 
and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created reading and numeracy 
videos and over 30 other videos, including those from:

? NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit  (ESOL and basic literacy 
tutoring)
? NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology),
? OTAN  (integrating technology)
   and
? CLESE (an informal assessment to capture what low-literate ESOL 
learners can and cannot do with literacy)

I hope you will take a look.  If you know of other good classroom or 
tutoring short videos in digital form, please let me know.  I am 
hoping that MLoTS will become a large, "one-stop" collection for 
adult literacy education classroom videos.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net





------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 01:01:15 +0000
From: Mary Lynn Simons <macsimoin at hotmail.com>
Subject: [Assessment 1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <BAY115-W323773268663F2FF780147BF900 at phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"


Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically decide what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to be able to pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to college or training as fast as possible.



----------------------------------------> From: Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential in GED programs, especially if> students are planning to go on to college! Students who pass the GED with> minimal ability to freely think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh options are usually at a loss in the college classroom. Most colleges> require program elements such as "writing across the curriculum." As we> know, writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.>> Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more. Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For students to truly> understand history, they must be able to vi
 sualize different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into statistics and math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations are used to communicate ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in another posting made the remark that students in a GED> class who are not reading in class are not practicing reading at all. If> the instructor is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if the> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of more> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we might not> get with GED students. But especially with students who want to pursue> higher education after earning the GED, we need to have the time to teach> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a long time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how> creativity is used in the co
 llege classroom as well as what GED students can> expect in college (though perhaps not to this extent, depending on the> teacher and the class). http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm believer in extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to attend college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between public schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include> creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County Public Schools> Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108> work 703-791-8387> fax 703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf Of David J. Rosen> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion List> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need
  to know!>>> Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by creativity. Good question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching> approaches will more students have more and higher academic skills,> better test scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we> want students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or> both? And where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should provide students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring
 > now adult secondary education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and if so how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying attention to one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus on high> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only traditional> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important creative skills> like the ability to look at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives, the ability to try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of thin
 king (what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the box").>> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should> they be? Not necessarily. But for students who see the GED or high> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should be> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical thinking> and creativity.>> I invite your comments on this.>> David J. Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching critical>> thinking skills which once our students know how to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be successful in achieving their>> education and other life goals. However, just like K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high stakes spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifle
 s creativity and teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>> Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>>>>>>> I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized>> test. We need look no further then those who have been successful>> on any type of test. We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,>> just smart, etc. If you speak to these folks they are well>> rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I don't know, I just know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure to the arts, banking industry, faculty
 ,>> medicine, legal issues as part of your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing then someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. My students participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those that "get into it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally frustrated>> when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they would>> like." Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>> activities that have to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>> Shirley Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net wrote:>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of the National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a presention>> recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, http:// <http:///> 
 >> www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education system -->> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive without high>> academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED teachers and administrators believe that their>> students will not pass the GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to pass the test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe creativity distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be the one to raise this>> issue, but it's the key question on the minds of many GED teachers>> and administrators, so I invite the panelists to address it.>>>> Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original message ---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>> We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to>>> give a qu
 ick reminder where you can get the information on this>>> discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>> suggested resources go to:>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>> 07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday - there were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share>> now!>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marie Cora" >> To: >> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you
 can get the information>> on this discussion. For the full announcement, information on>> guests, and suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ? there were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>> ------
 ------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings
 , please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to macsimoin at hotmail.com

_________________________________________________________________
Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. Stop by today.
http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:24:28 -0400
From: Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>
Subject: [Assessment 1013] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <9e32f2dbe2ba96b51be97f5819a91d2c at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
        format=flowed

Hi Mary Lynn--

One of my mantras for students, no matter  the age, has been:  "Don't 
waste their time."  Is this what you are getting at?

Andrea

On Oct 27, 2007, at 9:01 PM, Mary Lynn Simons wrote:


>

> Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them 

> accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically 

> decide what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to 

> be able to pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to 

> college or training as fast as possible.

>

>

>

> ----------------------------------------> From: 

> Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 

> 2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - 

> what you need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential 

> in GED programs, especially if> students are planning to go on to 

> college! Students who pass the GED with> minimal ability to freely 

> think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh options are 

> usually at a loss in the college classroom. Most colleges> require 

> program elements such as "writing across the curriculum." As we> know, 

> writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.>> 

> Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using> 

> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more. 

> Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement 

> creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For 

> students to truly> understand history, they must be able to visualize 

> different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into statistics 

> and math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations are used to 

> communicate ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in another 

> posting made the remark that students in a GED> class who are not 

> reading in class are not practicing reading at all. If> the instructor 

> is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if the> students 

> are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of more> 

> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take 

> that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we 

> might not> get with GED students. But especially with students who 

> want to pursue> higher education after earning the GED, we need to 

> have the time to teach> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just 

> now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a 

> long time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how> 

> creativity is used in the college classroom as well as what GED 

> students can> expect in college (though perhaps not to this extent, 

> depending on the> teacher and the class). 

> http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm believer in 

> extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to attend 

> college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between 

> public schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED 

> students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include> 

> creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine 

> Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County 

> Public Schools> Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108> 

> work 703-791-8387> fax 703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> 

> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov 

> [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf Of David J. Rosen> 

> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion 

> List> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to 

> know!>>> Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by 

> creativity. Good question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a 

> means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching> approaches will 

> more students have more and higher academic skills,> better test 

> scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we> want 

> students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or> both? And 

> where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, 

> that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, and I would 

> put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and 

> as an end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should 

> provide students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that 

> are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking 

> skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and 

> the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the 

> assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary 

> education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through 

> standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and 

> if so how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education 

> is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not 

> paying attention to one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the 

> historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that 

> the nearly exclusive focus on high> stakes basic skills tests for 

> K-12, and the focus on only traditional> basic skills for the GED 

> tests disrespects important creative skills> like the ability to look 

> at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives, the ability to 

> try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability to represent 

> an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other 

> figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and 

> follow, but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of 

> thinking (what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the 

> box").>> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. 

> No. Should> they be? Not necessarily. But for students who see the GED 

> or high> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone 

> to stable> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door 

> to> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should 

> be> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical 

> thinking> and creativity.>> I invite your comments on this.>> David J. 

> Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, 

> Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean 

> teaching critical>> thinking skills which once our students know how 

> to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be successful in 

> achieving their>> education and other life goals. However, just like 

> K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high stakes 

> spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifles creativity and 

> teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult 

> Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From: 

> assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On 

> Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> 

> To: The Assessment Discussion List>> Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: 

> GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>>>>>>> I agree that 

> creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized>> test. We need 

> look no further then those who have been successful>> on any type of 

> test. We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,>> just smart, etc. 

> If you speak to these folks they are well>> rounded, enjoy reading, 

> mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I don't know, I just 

> know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be the reason for 

> disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more disparity 

> between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure to the 

> arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal issues as part of 

> your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing 

> then someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. 

> My students participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those 

> that "get into it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that 

> feel it is a waste of time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" 

> are generally frustrated>> when "all of their hard work does not pay 

> off like they would>> like." Creativity also leads to retention; 

> especially those>> activities that have to be completed in increments. 

> Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>> Shirley Ledet>>>> GED 

> Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net wrote:>>>> 

> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy 

> education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of 

> the National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a 

> presention>> recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, 

> http:// <http:///> >> www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education 

> system -->> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive 

> without high>> academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED 

> teachers and administrators believe that their>> students will not 

> pass the GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to 

> pass the test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster. 

> (Many K-12 teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe 

> creativity distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be 

> the one to raise this>> issue, but it's the key question on the minds 

> of many GED teachers>> and administrators, so I invite the panelists 

> to address it.>>>> Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for 

> success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> 

> -------------- Original message ---------------------->> From: "Marie 

> Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>> We've had several new subscribers over the 

> past day, and so I>> wanted to>>> give a quick reminder where you can 

> get the information on this>>> discussion. For the full announcement, 

> information on guests, and>>> suggested resources go to:>>>>>> 

> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>> 

> 07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday - 

> there were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>> 

> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please 

> post your questions and also your own experiences to share>> 

> now!>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List 

> Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> 

> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List 

> Moderator>>> 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: 

> "Marie Cora" >> To: >> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what 

> you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi 

> everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve had several new subscribers over the past day, 

> and so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the 

> information>> on this discussion. For the full announcement, 

> information on>> guests, and suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>> 

> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/

> 07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday ? 

> there were a couple ? you>> can catch up in the archives at: 

> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> 

> Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share 

> now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> Assessment Discussion 

> List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> 

> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List 

> Moderator>>>> 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>> 

> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> 

> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or 

> change your subscription settings, please go to>> 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to 

> djrosen at comcast.net>> ------------------------------->> National 

> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> 

> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription 

> settings, please go to>> 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to 

> msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National 

> Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> 

> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription 

> settings, please go to>> 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to 

> djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> National 

> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to> 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to 

> kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> National 

> Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> 

> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to 

> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to 

> macsimoin at hotmail.com

>

> _________________________________________________________________

> Help yourself to FREE treats served up daily at the Messenger Caf?. 

> Stop by today.

> http://www.cafemessenger.com/info/info_sweetstuff2.html?

> ocid=TXT_TAGLM_OctWLtagline

> -------------------------------

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>




------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 22:39:24 -0400
From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net>
Subject: [Assessment 1014] Re: Media Library of Teaching Skills
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <0570AB67-85EE-4F24-AF0B-2E657CB60778 at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; delsp=yes;
        format=flowed

....and the Web address for MLoTS is:

http://www.mlots.org <http://www.mlots.org/> 

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net


On Oct 27, 2007, at 7:17 PM, David J. Rosen wrote:


> Colleagues,

>

> The Media Library of Teaching Skills (MLoTS) project, a free Web-

> based library of short digital videos of adult education classrooms

> and tutorials, now has three MLoTS-created reading and numeracy

> videos and over 30 other videos, including those from:

>

> ? NCAL/ILI Professional Development Kit  (ESOL and basic literacy

> tutoring)

> ? NCAL/ILI Captured Wisdom (integrating technology),

> ? OTAN  (integrating technology)

>    and

> ? CLESE (an informal assessment to capture what low-literate ESOL

> learners can and cannot do with literacy)

>

> I hope you will take a look.  If you know of other good classroom or

> tutoring short videos in digital form, please let me know.  I am

> hoping that MLoTS will become a large, "one-stop" collection for

> adult literacy education classroom videos.

>

> David J. Rosen

> djrosen at comcast.net

>

>

>

> -------------------------------

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> Assessment mailing list

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Message: 5
Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 23:17:38 -0400
From: "David J. Rosen" <djrosen at comcast.net>
Subject: [Assessment 1015]  GED preparation and creativity
To: The Assessment Discussion List <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <65D538BA-4A9D-42EE-A726-89161F3F5D5C at comcast.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed

Hello Andrea,

On Oct 27, 2007, you wrote:


> Has anybody yet in this conversation defined 1. critical reading 

> and 2. creativity?


Here's more on defining creativity.  To begin  with, it's quite 
unlikely that we will agree on a definition.  There are more than 60 
of them in the psychological literature (Taylor, 1988),  and as far 
as I am aware there is no standardized measurement instrument for 
creativity. Some believe it is inherited; some believe it can be 
taught; some believe it can be nurtured or encouraged. I believe that 
some kinds of creativity can be taught or at least nurtured and that 
it involves a set of mental activities often closely aligned with the 
kind of mental activities we call critical thinking. Most of us would 
agree, I believe, that a key element is originality, but we might 
differ in describing the paths to it. And it may look different in 
different contexts, in the sciences, in the arts, in technology, and 
in the creative problem solving of daily living.

In the context in which I raised the issue of creativity, I was 
thinking of the application of new ideas, what some would refer to as 
innovation or ingenuity. It is this applied creativity that I believe 
Marc Tucker had in mind as something that Americans have historically 
valued and excelled at, that has been an element of American economic 
success, and that may be undervalued or lost now in the education 
systems' rush toward performance on high stakes standardized tests.

Are adult literacy education students  (including basic education, 
secondary education and ESOL) capable of  this kind of creativity? If 
so, should we nurture it? I believe they are and that we should.  In 
many GED programs I have seen, it is not nourished, usually not even 
acknowledged in program goals or objectives.  And I have never seen 
it measured. This indicates to me that, as a field, we do not value 
and support student creativity. I agree with Marc Tucker that, if we 
are interested in Americans' global competitiveness that we should 
value creativity, and of course, there are other good reasons to 
nourish creativity.

What do you think about this?


* Taylor, C.W. (1988). "Various approaches to and definitions of 
creativity", in ed. Sternberg, R.J.:  The nature of creativity: 
Contemporary psychological perspectives. Cambridge University Press.

David J. Rosen
djrosen at comcast.net




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2007 07:51:18 -0400
From: "Donna Chambers" <donnaedp at cox.net>
Subject: [Assessment 1016] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Message-ID: <001f01c81958$da000530$8e5fdd48 at DH89L251>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252";
        reply-type=original

Mary Lynn,

Your argument to push learners forward is a common belief.  I am not
suggesting to hold learners back, but if we are to prepare them for just
"passing the test"  we are overlooking the "ASE" responsibility of our job.
Preparing the learner to possess the expected academic skills of  a high
school  student and be ready to transition to college level academics is in
the learners' best interest in respect to time and money.   Community
College should not have to remediate adult basic skills, and yet they do. If
the GED were to be more aligned with the tests required to enter community
college, such as the Accuplacer, the transition would be smoother, but it is
not.   Preparation for the learners next steps, which includes basic and
secondary fundamental skills, is the responsibility of  Adult Literacy.

Donna Chambers


----- Original Message -----
From: "Mary Lynn Simons" <macsimoin at hotmail.com>
To: "The Assessment Discussion List" <assessment at nifl.gov>
Sent: Saturday, October 27, 2007 9:01 PM
Subject: [Assessment 1012] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!



Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them
accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically decide
what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to be able to
pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to college or
training as fast as possible.



----------------------------------------> From: Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To:
assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject:
[Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>> David, I
agree that creativity is essential in GED programs, especially if> students
are planning to go on to college! Students who pass the GED with> minimal
ability to freely think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh
options are usually at a loss in the college classroom. Most colleges>
require program elements such as "writing across the curriculum." As we>
know, writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.>>
Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using>
rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more. Humanities>
courses demand students to understand and even implement creative forms,>
figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For students to truly>
understand history, they must be able to visualize different time periods.>
Symbolic thought translates into statistics and math classes in which>
graphs, numbers and equations are used to communicate ideas. The list goes>
on.>> Someone here or in another posting made the remark that students in a
GED> class who are not reading in class are not practicing reading at all.
If> the instructor is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if
the> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of more>
formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take that>
home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we might not>
get with GED students. But especially with students who want to pursue>
higher education after earning the GED, we need to have the time to teach>
them to think critically.>> Finally, I just now ran across an essay from
Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a long time but did in my past lives.
The essay demonstrates how> creativity is used in the college classroom as
well as what GED students can> expect in college (though perhaps not to this
extent, depending on the> teacher and the class).
http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm believer in
extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to attend
college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between public
schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED students to succeed.
Part of these discussions should include> creativity used and expected in
every academic setting.>>> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online
Instructor> Prince William County Public Schools> Adult Education> P.O. Box
389> Manassas, VA 20108> work 703-791-8387> fax
703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> From:
assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf
Of David J. Rosen> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The
Assessment Discussion List> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion -
what you need to know!>>> Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean
by creativity. Good question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a means
to an end -- that is, with creative teaching> approaches will more students
have more and higher academic skills,> better test scores? Or is creativity
itself an end -- that is, do we> want students to be both academically
prepared and creative? Or> both? And where do critical skills fit in?>> I
would argue, as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic> skills
and creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both> these
catregories, both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary> education
(e.g. GED) programs should provide students with the> opportunity to have
academic skills that are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong
critical thinking skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic
skills), and the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the
assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary
education programs?>> ? Perhaps academic skills, at least through
standardized tests> ? Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and if so
how?> ? I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is measuring>
creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying attention to
one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the historic strengths of the
U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus on
high> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only traditional>
basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important creative skills> like
the ability to look at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives,
the ability to try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability to
represent an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or
other figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and
follow, but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of
thinking (what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the box").>> Are
these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should> they be?
Not necessarily. But for students who see the GED or high> school diploma as
a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable> employment and
self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to> successful post-secondary
learning, these are the skills we should be> teaching and measuring:
academic skills, including critical thinking> and creativity.>> I invite
your comments on this.>> David J. Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26,
2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to
creativity do we mean teaching critical>> thinking skills which once our
students know how to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be
successful in achieving their>> education and other life goals. However,
just like K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high stakes
spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifles creativity and teachers
teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult Education & Transitions
Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent:
Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>>
Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to
know!>>>>>>>> I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on
standardized>> test. We need look no further then those who have been
successful>> on any type of test. We tend to use terms like natuarally
gifted,>> just smart, etc. If you speak to these folks they are well>>
rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I
don't know, I just know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be
the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more
disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure to
the arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal issues as part of
your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing then
someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. My students
participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those that "get into
it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of
time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally frustrated>>
when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they would>> like."
Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>> activities that have
to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>> Shirley
Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net wrote:>>>>
Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy
education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of the
National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a presention>>
recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, http:// <http:///> >>
www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education system -->> and he
includes adult education, cannot be competitive without high>> academic
standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED teachers and administrators
believe that their>> students will not pass the GED unless they focus on
skills and>> knowledge needed to pass the test, that creativity is a>>
"distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 teachers,>> administrators or
policy makers also believe creativity distracts>> from passing high stakes
tests.) I hate to be the one to raise this>> issue, but it's the key
question on the minds of many GED teachers>> and administrators, so I invite
the panelists to address it.>>>> Is creativity a distraction or is it
essential for success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>>
djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original
message ---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>>
We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to>>>
give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this>>>
discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>>
suggested resources go to:>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>>
07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday - there
were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please post
your questions and also your own experiences to share>> now!>>>>>>
Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List
Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>
NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marie
Cora" >> To: >> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what you need to
know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi everyone,>>>>>>>> We?ve
had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to give a
quick reminder where you can get the information>> on this discussion. For
the full announcement, information on>> guests, and suggested resources go
to:>>>>>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>>
If you missed the posts from yesterday ? there were a couple ? you>> can
catch up in the archives at: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>>
assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your
own experiences to share now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>>
Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>>
marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List
Moderator>>>>
http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->>
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