Community Colleges test students when they enter and then teach them accordingly. It is not our job to paternalistically/maternalistically decide what is best for our students beyond what they need to know to be able to pass the test. We must not hold them back. Let them get to college or training as fast as possible.



----------------------------------------> From: Kgotthardt at comcast.net> To: assessment at nifl.gov> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2007 09:35:10 -0400> Subject: [Assessment 1007] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>> David, I agree that creativity is essential in GED programs, especially if> students are planning to go on to college! Students who pass the GED with> minimal ability to freely think creatively, explore abstract ideas, and> weigh options are usually at a loss in the college classroom. Most colleges> require program elements such as "writing across the curriculum." As we> know, writing requires abstract thought, the kind adults need to develop.>> Even basic college writing classes require understanding and using> rhetorical patterns found in the descriptive essay and more. Humanities> courses demand students to understand and even implement creative forms,> figures of speech, figurative language, and more. For students to truly> understand history, they must be able to visualize different time periods.> Symbolic thought translates into statistics and math classes in which> graphs, numbers and equations are used to communicate ideas. The list goes> on.>> Someone here or in another posting made the remark that students in a GED> class who are not reading in class are not practicing reading at all. If> the instructor is writing on the board, if the students are writing, if the> students are taking practice tests, they ARE reading. In terms of more> formalized, lengthier readings, students will most likely need to take that> home. Yes, this requires a certain amount of discipline that we might not> get with GED students. But especially with students who want to pursue> higher education after earning the GED, we need to have the time to teach> them to think critically.>> Finally, I just now ran across an essay from Peter Elbow whom I haven't> studied in a long time but did in my past lives. The essay demonstrates how> creativity is used in the college classroom as well as what GED students can> expect in college (though perhaps not to this extent, depending on the> teacher and the class). http://www.ntlf.com/html/lib/bib/writing.htm>> I'm a firm believer in extensive transitional services for GED students> planning to attend college, and I think it's essential to have> communications between public schools and college to make this happen if we> want GED students to succeed. Part of these discussions should include> creativity used and expected in every academic setting.>>> Katherine Mercurio Gotthardt, ESOL Online Instructor> Prince William County Public Schools> Adult Education> P.O. Box 389> Manassas, VA 20108> work 703-791-8387> fax 703-791-8889>>>>>> -----Original Message-----> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]On> Behalf Of David J. Rosen> Sent: Friday, October 26, 2007 10:54 PM> To: The Assessment Discussion List> Subject: [Assessment 1005] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>> Assessment colleagues,>> Toni asked what we mean by creativity. Good question. I'll give it a> shot.>> Is creativity a means to an end -- that is, with creative teaching> approaches will more students have more and higher academic skills,> better test scores? Or is creativity itself an end -- that is, do we> want students to be both academically prepared and creative? Or> both? And where do critical skills fit in?>> I would argue, as Marc Tucker does, that we need both high academic> skills and creativity, and I would put critical thinking in both> these catregories, both as a means and as an end. Our adult secondary> education (e.g. GED) programs should provide students with the> opportunity to have academic skills that are strong enough to succeed> in college, strong critical thinking skills (these may be inseparable> from strong academic skills), and the skills of creative problem> solving.>> Since this is the assessment list, let me ask what are we measuring> now adult secondary education programs?>> • Perhaps academic skills, at least through standardized tests> • Are we measuring critical thinking skills, and if so how?> • I am not aware that anyone in adult literacy education is measuring> creative skills.>> If Marc Tucker is right, we are not paying attention to one of the> greatest economic assets, one of the historic strengths of the U.S. I> agree with Tucker and believe that the nearly exclusive focus on high> stakes basic skills tests for K-12, and the focus on only traditional> basic skills for the GED tests disrespects important creative skills> like the ability to look at a problem freshly and from different> perspectives, the ability to try out and evaluate a range of> solutions, the ability to represent an idea with an image, a moving> image, a drawing; a metaphor or other figurative language, or> rhetoric; and the ability to understand and follow, but instead to> disregard instructions or traditional paths of thinking (what we now> often describe as "thinking outside the box").>> Are these goals that every GED student has or should have. No. Should> they be? Not necessarily. But for students who see the GED or high> school diploma as a way out of poverty, as a stepping stone to stable> employment and self-sufficiency, as a key to open the door to> successful post-secondary learning, these are the skills we should be> teaching and measuring: academic skills, including critical thinking> and creativity.>> I invite your comments on this.>> David J. Rosen> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> On Oct 26, 2007, at 3:39 PM, Borge, Toni F wrote:>>> When we are referring to creativity do we mean teaching critical>> thinking skills which once our students know how to think in a>> critical thinking way they will be successful in achieving their>> education and other life goals. However, just like K-12 education,>> adult education is captured on the high stakes spinning wheel of>> accountability which stifles creativity and teachers teach to the>> test.>>>> Toni Borge>>>> BHCC>> Adult Education & Transitions Program>>>> Boston, MA>>>>>>>> From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment->> bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of shirley ledet>> Sent: Thursday, October 25, 2007 4:30 PM>> To: The Assessment Discussion List>> Subject: [Assessment 1001] Re: GED Discussion - what you need to know!>>>>>>>> I agree that creativity is not the enemy of success on standardized>> test. We need look no further then those who have been successful>> on any type of test. We tend to use terms like natuarally gifted,>> just smart, etc. If you speak to these folks they are well>> rounded, enjoy reading, mvies, theater, they tend to use terms like>> "I don't know, I just know stuff." Researchers have found that>> this may be the reason for disparity between ethnicity. I believe>> there is more disparity between socio economic background then>> ethnicity. Exposure to the arts, banking industry, faculty,>> medicine, legal issues as part of your everyday life tends to offer>> more of an advantage when testing then someone whose only exposure>> is to go to school and study hard. My students participate in a>> quite a few creative projects and those that "get into it" tend to>> do better in all subjects. Those that feel it is a waste of time>> and they just want to "study for the GED" are generally frustrated>> when "all of their hard work does not pay off like they would>> like." Creativity also leads to retention; especially those>> activities that have to be completed in increments. Let's bring on>> more creativity!>>>> Shirley Ledet>>>> GED Instructor>>>> NHC-Carver>>>> djrosen at comcast.net wrote:>>>> Colleagues,>>>> I am a proponent of creativity in adult literacy education -->> indeed in all education. As Marc Tucker, President of the National>> Center for Education and the Economy, has said in a presention>> recently to the National Commission on Adult Literacy, http://>> www.caalusa.org/video/choices.html , the U.S. education system -->> and he includes adult education, cannot be competitive without high>> academic standards AND creativity.>>>> But many GED teachers and administrators believe that their>> students will not pass the GED unless they focus on skills and>> knowledge needed to pass the test, that creativity is a>> "distraction" and a time-waster. (Many K-12 teachers,>> administrators or policy makers also believe creativity distracts>> from passing high stakes tests.) I hate to be the one to raise this>> issue, but it's the key question on the minds of many GED teachers>> and administrators, so I invite the panelists to address it.>>>> Is creativity a distraction or is it essential for success? Why?>>>>>> David J. Rosen>> djrosen at comcast.net>>>> -------------- Original message ---------------------->> From: "Marie Cora">>> Hi everyone,>>>>>> We've had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to>>> give a quick reminder where you can get the information on this>>> discussion. For the full announcement, information on guests, and>>> suggested resources go to:>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/>> 07creativityGED.html>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday - there were a couple ->> you can>>> catch up in the archives at:>>> http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share>> now!>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>>>> From: "Marie Cora" >> To: >> Subject: [Assessment 942] GED Discussion - what you need to know!>> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2007 14:43:14 +0000>>>> Hi everyone,>>>>>>>> We’ve had several new subscribers over the past day, and so I>> wanted to give a quick reminder where you can get the information>> on this discussion. For the full announcement, information on>> guests, and suggested resources go to:>>>>>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/lincs/discussions/assessment/07creativityGED.html>>>>>>>> If you missed the posts from yesterday – there were a couple – you>> can catch up in the archives at: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/>> assessment/2007/date.html>>>>>>>> Please post your questions and also your own experiences to share now!>>>>>>>> Thanks!!>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Marie Cora>>>> marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com>>>> NIFL Assessment Discussion List Moderator>>>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>>>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to msledet at yahoo.com>>>>>>>>>> ------------------------------->> National Institute for Literacy>> Assessment mailing list>> Assessment at nifl.gov>> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to>> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment>> Email delivered to djrosen at comcast.net>>>>>> -------------------------------> National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to> http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to kgotthardt at comcast.net>> -------------------------------> National Institute for Literacy> Assessment mailing list> Assessment at nifl.gov> To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/assessment> Email delivered to macsimoin at hotmail.com

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