Andrea

Think-attack skills include:  please add folks

1)      plan do review

2)      Does this make sense?

3)      What am I looking for here?

4)      Will what I already know work in this new situation, or 

5)      How do I need to change what I know so it works in this new
situation?

6)      What is the situation?

7)      Gosh this looks like that, humm therefore I might know something
about it

8)      Derivation:  oh that word came to us from there, ahhhhhh

9)      Meanings: oh here's a missed meaning for that word that I didn't
know

10)  Meanings: this meaning is not what I thought, I need to update my
meaning file

11)   

Va

________________________________

From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov]
On Behalf Of Andrea Wilder
Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 11:36 AM
To: The Assessment Discussion List
Subject: [Assessment 980] Re: FW: [AAACE-NLA] level movement

 

Hi Virginia, 

 

Would you please define "think-attack skills?" 

 

Thanks. 

 

Andrea 

 

On Oct 18, 2007, at 1:12 PM, Virginia Tardaewether wrote: 

	 

	Andres, etal. 

	What I've noticed in 37 years of teaching adults is if students
are improving their think-attack skills, their scores improve, no matter
what the assessment tool. It is not necessary to teach to the test.
Plus, any good assessment is going to be about life and work and will
fit what people/students have as goals. 

	  

	The largest challenge really is getting at that fine-tuned goal,
getting students to see their potential and apply their abilities in new
ways toward reaching it. 

	Va 

	  

	 

	From: assessment-bounces at nifl.gov
[mailto:assessment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of andresmuro at aol.com 

	Sent: Thursday, October 18, 2007 9:46 AM 

	To: assessment at nifl.gov 

	Subject: [Assessment 976] Re: FW: [AAACE-NLA] level movement 

	  

	Melinda: 

	 

	I don't disagree with anything that you are saying. However, in
my opinion, the problem with NRS-WIA is the same problem as with NCLB.
Skillful teachers  in the right settings with the proper tools can
facilitate knowledge in broad areas, and yet help many students show
progress in standardized tests. However, most teachers feel like they
are under pressure to demonstrate level gains in the given measuring
tool. Comments from Tom Stitch in the NLA forum articulated exactly
this. Essentially teachers felt pressure to show gains in standardized
instruments and spent most of their time preparing students to
demonstrate gains in these instruments. Most felt that they had little
time for other activities and that they were unable to teach things that
they felt were important. Comments, to me personally, from teachers
throughout the US over the years suggests the same. In fact, when
teachers are asked to document evidence of additional activities and
progress in other ar eas aside from the mandated assessment, they become
highly resentful. They feel that they are under pressure to prepare the
students to show gains in the TABE, BEST plus, CASAS, and whatever else,
and in addition, their administrators want them to demonstrate that
their students are becoming more knowledgeable of civics, health,
politics, history, the environment and whatever else. Teachers feel that
the paperwork becomes insurmountable and that their role is to keep with
an endless bureaucracy rather than concentrate on just teaching. 

	 

	In addition, as I argued in the NLA forum, there is no evidence
that standardized tests demonstrate anything other than knowledge on how
to take them. I don't think that there is a single scientific article
that states that not getting a certain score in the BEST plus, TABE,
CASAS or whatever, means that you do not posses the skills that the
instrument attempts to measure. You make that argument yourself. You
claim that having an GED is no indication of academic skills in math,
reading, etc. The only difference is that the GED does represent access
to employment, college and a significant entitlement for many. However,
moving from beginning literacy ESL to beginning ESL is absolutely,
unquestionably, indisputably, unarguably, overwhelmingly, incredibly
meaningless. In fact, what happens in many programs is that a student
will start in beginning literacy ESL, spend a whole semester or year in
the same level and at the end of the year the student will demonstrate
that he/she mo ved to beginning ESL. The student will stop attending for
whatever reason and return to the same or a different program some time
later. The student will be assessed again and will likely place in
beginning literacy ESL again, and do the whole thing again. Now, this is
not an exception. This is the rule w/ many programs. 

	 

	Andres 

	  

	  

	 

	-----Original Message----- 

	From: Melinda Hefner <mhefner at cccti.edu> 

	To: Assessment at nifl.gov 

	Sent: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 9:22 am 

	Subject: [Assessment 975] Re: FW: [AAACE-NLA] level movement 

	I hope that this post will not be perceived as being
disrespectful because it's certainly not intended to be; however, there
are some slight but noteworthy inaccuracies in the NRS outcome measure
descriptions and requirement that were in the original post.  While
there are certain NRS requirements that all states must meet, there are
also optional requirements or outcome measures that states may choose to
include for determination of performance among its local programs.  NRS
guidelines, when adhered to, are quite supportive of student and
instructor led educational plans where instructional goals are dynamic,
meet student needs, and drive instruction.  To say that nothing else
matters other than level completion is not entirely accurate although
I'm certain that there may be some administrators around the country who
make it appear that way.  Fortunately, in North Carolina our state
leadership, while taking NRS guidelines very seriously, use them to
support instruction not impede it. 

	  

	Additionally, while I obviously support GED completion as a
goal, unfortunately GED completion alone does not assure that a student
functions at an adult secondary high level in math, reading, and/or
language which has been problematic in a number of ways particularly for
students transitioning into post-secondary training.  Although there are
similar transitioning issues among underprepared students who graduate
from high school in the traditional fashion, adult literacy providers
should make successful transition into post-secondary training a high
priority for students as applicable.  One of the many ways to do this is
to assure and validate via pre-testing and post-testing that students
do, indeed, function at the adult secondary high level and have not
merely gained sufficient information and skills to have passed a GED
test(s). 

	  

	Melinda 

	 

	>>> On 10/17/2007 at 8:26 pm, in message
<059c01c8111d$85f2ba20$0402a8c0 at LITNOW>, "Marie Cora"
<marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote: 

	This email is cross-posted for your interest. 

	  

	Marie Cora 

	Assessment Discussion List Moderator 

	  

	********** 

	  

	-----Original Message----- 

	From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org
[mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of
andresmuro at aol.com 

	Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 3:23 PM 

	To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org 

	Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] level movement 

	  

	Daphnee: 

	 

	I think that the USDE and WIA-NRS look at a minimum of 66% that
will complete a level. Supposedly a program has to base test 90% of
students who enroll in program within the first week of instruction. Of
those that have a base test they expect that 66% show progress. In other
words, 66% should be able to go from one of the levels to the next one.
WIA-NRS has a bunch of levels. for example, the have beginning literacy
ESL, beginning ESL, Intermediate ESL, Advanced ESL. They also have
beginning literacy, intermediate literacy, advanced, and GED. May be I
have the names of the level wrong, but it is something like that. So, if
a student starts at beginning literacy ESL, s/he has several levels to
move through to get to GED. While there are few students getting to the
GED level, WIA-NRS allows ABE programs to show higher success rates than
before. However, the number of GED completers over the total number of
students in ABE has gone down. ABE programs are only evaluated on the %
of students that show progress in the TABE, BEST, etc. So, if students
use language to access health care, enroll in college, help their kids
with homework, build computers, publish stories, etc all that is
irrelevant. The only thing that matters is if students  show progress in
the BEST or TABE. In fact, if a students is enrolled in a beginning ESL
class and the student decides to go  take the GED on her own, that would
not be considered progress based on WIA-NRS unless the student declares
beforehand that GED is a goal. So, teachers are under pressure to have
the students show progress in these tests and nothing else matters. 

	 

	I run a GED program with high completion rates. it is not a
WIA-NRS ABE program. So, we don't have to pretest,  and assess the
students every five weeks. We are under no pressure to show intermediate
outcomes outside from GED completion. In addition to GED instruction we
discuss health literacy, nutrition, legal issues, etc. We have very high
GED completion numbers. Our students also publish stories. We had an
ABE- grant. We could only measure success rates from one level to the
next. It was an insane bureaucracy. We don't have the ABE program
anymore. 

	 

	Andres 

	  

	  

	-----Original Message----- 

	From: Daphne Greenberg <ALCDGG at langate.gsu.edu> 

	To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org 

	Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 8:49 am 

	Subject: [AAACE-NLA] level movement 

	Forgive my cross posting to a few electronic lists, but I
received the following 

	 

	question, and I am hoping that someone has good advice that I
can share with the 

	 

	person who asked me. 

	 

	 

	 

	If you were to review a program's "graduation" or "completion"
rates from one 

	 

	level to the next (for example from ESL to ABE or ASE/GED or ABE
to ASE/GED) 

	 

	what would you consider a  "good" rate? 

	 

	 

	 

	Thanks, 

	 

	Daphne Greenberg 

	 

	Georgia State University 

	 

	 

	 

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