Melinda:

I don't disagree with anything that you are saying. However, in my opinion, the problem with NRS-WIA is the same problem as with NCLB.? Skillful teachers? in the right settings with the proper tools can facilitate knowledge in broad areas, and yet help many students show progress in standardized tests. However, most teachers feel like they are under pressure to demonstrate level gains in the given measuring tool. Comments from Tom Stitch in the NLA forum articulated exactly this. Essentially teachers felt pressure to show gains in standardized instruments and spent most of their time preparing students to demonstrate gains in these instruments. Most felt that they had little time for other activities and that they were unable to teach things that they felt were important. Comments, to me personally, from teachers throughout the US over the years suggests the same. In fact, when teachers are asked to document evidence of additional activities and progress in other areas aside from the mandated assessment, they become highly resentful. They feel that they are under pressure to prepare the students to show gains in the TABE, BEST plus, CASAS, and whatever else, and in addition, their administrators want them to demonstrate that their students are becoming more knowledgeable of civics, health, politics, history, the environment and whatever else. Teachers feel that the paperwork becomes insurmountable and that their role is to keep with an endless bureaucracy rather than concentrate on just teaching. 

In addition, as I argued in the NLA forum, there is no evidence that standardized tests demonstrate anything other than knowledge on how to take them. I don't think that there is a single scientific article that states that not getting a certain score in the BEST plus, TABE, CASAS or whatever, means that you do not posses the skills that the instrument attempts to measure. You make that argument yourself. You claim that having an GED is no indication of academic skills in math, reading, etc. The only difference is that the GED does represent access to employment, college and a significant entitlement for many. However, moving from beginning literacy ESL to beginning ESL is absolutely, unquestionably, indisputably, unarguably, overwhelmingly, incredibly meaningless. In fact, what happens in many programs is that a student will start in beginning literacy ESL, spend a whole semester or year in the same level and at the end of the year the student will demonstrate that he/she moved to beginning ESL. The student will stop attending for whatever reason and return to the same or a different program some time later. The student will be assessed again and will likely place in beginning literacy ESL again, and do the whole thing again. Now, this is not an exception. This is the rule w/ many programs. 

Andres


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Melinda Hefner <mhefner at cccti.edu>
To: Assessment at nifl.gov
Sent: Thu, 18 Oct 2007 9:22 am
Subject: [Assessment 975] Re: FW: [AAACE-NLA] level movement

















I hope that this post will not be perceived as being disrespectful because it's certainly not intended to be; however, there are some slight but noteworthy inaccuracies in the NRS outcome measure descriptions and requirement that were in the original post.? While there are certain NRS requirements that all states must meet, there are also optional?requirements or outcome measures that states may choose to include for determination of performance among its local programs.? NRS guidelines, when adhered to, are quite supportive of student and instructor led educational plans where instructional goals are dynamic, meet student needs, and drive instruction.? To say that nothing else matters other than level completion is not entirely accurate although I'm certain that there may be some administrators around the country who make it appear that way.? Fortunately, in North Carolina our state leadership, while taking NRS guidelines very seriously, use them to support instruction not impede it.


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Additionally, while I obviously support GED completion as a goal, unfortunately GED completion alone does not assure that a student functions at an adult secondary high level in math, reading, and/or language which has been problematic in a number of ways particularly for students transitioning into post-secondary training.? Although there are similar transitioning issues among underprepared students who graduate from high school in the traditional fashion, adult literacy providers should make successful transition into post-secondary training a high priority for students as applicable.? One of the many ways to do this is to assure and validate via pre-testing and post-testing that students do, indeed, function at the adult secondary high level and have not merely gained sufficient information and skills to have passed a GED test(s).


?


Melinda




>>> On 10/17/2007 at 8:26 pm, in message <059c01c8111d$85f2ba20$0402a8c0 at LITNOW>, "Marie Cora" <marie.cora at hotspurpartners.com> wrote:








This email is cross-posted for your interest.


?


Marie Cora


Assessment Discussion List Moderator


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**********


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-----Original Message-----
From: aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org [mailto:aaace-nla-bounces at lists.literacytent.org] On Behalf Of andresmuro at aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 3:23 PM
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Subject: Re: [AAACE-NLA] level movement


?




Daphnee:

I think that the USDE and WIA-NRS look at a minimum of 66% that will complete a level. Supposedly a program has to base test 90% of students who enroll in program within the first week of instruction. Of those that have a base test they expect that 66% show progress. In other words, 66% should be able to go from one of the levels to the next one. WIA-NRS has a bunch of levels. for example, the have beginning literacy ESL, beginning ESL, Intermediate ESL, Advanced ESL. They also have beginning literacy, intermediate literacy, advanced, and GED. May be I have the names of the level wrong, but it is something like that. So, if a student starts at beginning literacy ESL, s/he has several levels to move through to get to GED. While there are few students getting to the GED level, WIA-NRS allows ABE programs to show higher success rates than before. However, the number of GED completers over the total number of students in ABE has gone down. ABE programs are only evaluated on the % of students that show progress in the TABE, BEST, etc. So, if students use language to access health care, enroll in college, help their kids with homework, build computers, publish stories, etc all that is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is if students? show progress in the BEST or TABE. In fact, if a students is enrolled in a beginning ESL class and the student decides to go? take the GED on her own, that would not be considered progress based on WIA-NRS unless the student declares beforehand that GED is a goal. So, teachers are under pressure to have the students show progress in these tests and nothing else matters.

I run a GED program with high completion rates. it is not a WIA-NRS ABE program. So, we don't have to pretest,? and assess the students every five weeks. We are under no pressure to show intermediate outcomes outside from GED completion. In addition to GED instruction we discuss health literacy, nutrition, legal issues, etc. We have very high GED completion numbers. Our students also publish stories. We had an ABE- grant. We could only measure success rates from one level to the next. It was an insane bureaucracy. We don't have the ABE program anymore. 

Andres





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-----Original Message-----
From: Daphne Greenberg <ALCDGG at langate.gsu.edu>
To: aaace-nla at lists.literacytent.org
Sent: Wed, 17 Oct 2007 8:49 am
Subject: [AAACE-NLA] level movement



Forgive my cross posting to a few electronic lists, but I received the following 





question, and I am hoping that someone has good advice that I can share with the 





person who asked me.











If you were to review a program's "graduation" or "completion" rates from one 





level to the next (for example from ESL to ABE or ASE/GED or ABE to ASE/GED) 





what would you consider a? "good" rate?











Thanks,





Daphne Greenberg





Georgia State University











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