Bonnie--

This is really interesting, a jump from the literal to the abstract  
in a classroom student.  I didn't expect this at all!  Which is the  
reason I asked for examples of the thinking you are talking about.

Does anyone else have more examples of critical thinking, either in  
the Catherine / Bonnie vein or some other equally promising vein?

Thanks!

Andrea:)

On Jul 16, 2008, at 9:18 PM, Bonnie Odiorne wrote:


> Andrea,

>

> I was tutoring an English 102 student, composition and literature.  

> She is someone who must be learning disabled in some way because  

> her spelling is erratic (she has L1 interference but speaks perfect  

> English, has lived here in the US for many years.) Her reading  

> comprehension was always on the literal level, and she was trying  

> to understand the concept of metaphor in Hemingway's "The Hills are  

> like Elephants." I made her slow down, read attentively, and notice  

> the comparisons and how they changed throughout the story. All of a  

> sudden she said, "You mean....?" and then she took the opposite  

> tack, and started comparing everything to everything and completely  

> going wild, to the point of misinterpretation. But she got it.  

> Somehow she knew she'd gotten to some kind of different level, and  

> it was like falling in love, a kind of infatuation with language  

> that was a joy to see.

>

> Is this more what you were looking for?

>

> Or, in an ESOL workforce program at a factory, I was teaching a  

> group of men "going to". Of course, I was in my perfect  

> pronunciation mode. Then I inadvertently said "What are you gonna  

> do after work?" Of course, that's what they would have heard among  

> their fellow workers, so they were able to make the connection, and  

> the light went off.

>

> Best of luck with your qyeries. It was fun remembering these times.

>

> Bonnie Odiorne, (now at) Post University, Waterbury CT

>

>

>

> ----- Original Message ----

> From: Andrea Wilder <andreawilder at comcast.net>

> To: Catherine B. King <cb.king at verizon.net>; The Adult Literacy  

> Professional Development Discussion List  

> <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>

> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 4:52:46 PM

> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2326] Re: Critical Thinking  

> andLearnerLeadership

>

> Hi Catherine,

>

> Thank you very much for your full example and explanation.

>

> What I had in mind was some examples from your classroom or any

> teacher's classroom--empirical descriptions which would give me a

> clearer idea of what is being discussed.

>

> If anyone has that, I would appreciate it.

>

> However, what I have gotten in your extended discussion is a

> fascinating reflection on learning.

>

> Thanks!

>

> Andrea

>

>

> On Jul 16, 2008, at 10:43 AM, Catherine B. King wrote:

>

> > Hi Andrea:

> >

> > The study of cognitional theory and surrounding philosophical

> > meaning comes

> > from the work of Bernard Lonergan's Insight:  A Study of Human

> > Understanding

> > (1958 & 2000) and a massive collection of other related works.

> >

> > However, do you mean by "useful examples," more ideas of questions

> > to pose?

> > As far as examples of insights is concerned, I use my own examples

> > where I

> > have had "aha" moments--but a common example is when we finally

> > "get" a joke

> > we didn't understand before but that everyone else understands.

> > And all

> > adult students have minds and, thus, have had various kinds of

> > insights

> > about concrete events in their lives over the years.  The "insight"

> > is a

> > general/universal term for what everyone has in the particular  

> case as

> > experience.

> >

> > But in this arena of learning, the point to stress in reading--for

> > instance,

> > stories, novels, poetry, etc.,--is not to objectify-to-analyze what

> > the

> > meaning of the writing is (a valuable thing to do in its own

> > right), but

> > rather to self-reflect--to consider what the poem or story brings

> > to mind in

> > my own life--how does it relate or inform my own experience, what

> > did I

> > learn from it?--and we can note how such stories, etc., can inform

> > our own

> > depth of thinking and our critical judgments (critical thinking)?

> > This is

> > besides just the joy of reading.

> >

> > As an aside, I am myself a "late" adult learner.  All through K-12

> > I thought

> > school was a horrible thing--socially and educationally (a later

> > insight).

> > I never experienced it as being for me.  What caught me onto my own

> > education was my realization of how good I felt when I really

> > understood

> > something well (had insights).

> >

> > It's a great feeling to really grasp something--and that

> > experience--now

> > reflectively understood itself as something valuable FOR ME--was

> > what gave

> > me the impetus to want more--learning and reading and studying

> > became a real

> > discovery process for me instead of something boring and horrible to

> > memorize and spit back--I learned to love learning, as it were--I

> > felt my

> > mind breathing--quite literally; whereas my own K-12 background was

> > a horror

> > story of not only neglect of learning potential, but actual

> > quashing of that

> > potential by teachers and others who either didn't know what they  

> were

> > doing, or teachers who had 36 kids in a classroom for 55 minutes at

> > a time.

> > Shuffled from room to room with no connection between rooms or my  

> past

> > experience. Enough.

> >

> > If I missed what you meant by "example," let me know?

> >

> >

> > Catherine

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > ----- Original Message -----

> > From: "Andrea Wilder" <andreawilder at comcast.net>

> > To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List"

> > <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>

> > Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 7:16 AM

> > Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2316] Re: Critical Thinking

> > andLearnerLeadership

> >

> >

> > Catherine--

> >

> > Do you have any useful examples of this?  it's a lovely idea.

> >

> > Andrea:)

> >

> > On Jul 16, 2008, at 9:27 AM, Gabb, Sally S. wrote:

> >

> >> I agree absolutely, Catherine - we use such exercises on a regular

> >> basis in college developmental reading, to enable students to

> >> reflect on their own knowledge and thinking process. Thanks for a

> >> clear explanation of this kind of exercise.  Sal

> >>

> >> -----Original Message-----

> >> From: professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov

> >> [mailto:professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of

> >> Catherine B. King

> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 8:37 AM

> >> To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List

> >> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2314] Re: Critical Thinking and

> >> LearnerLeadership

> >>

> >> Hello Sally:

> >>

> >> One way to distinguish merely memorizing for a test, and the more

> >> remote

> >> development that will help open horizons and create the basis for

> >> more and

> >> better understanding (and critical thinking)--is to focus a session

> >> on the

> >> activity of understanding itself.  One way to "focus on  

> understanding

> >> itself" is to have them do some self-reflective exercises, for

> >> instance,

> >> where they locate and write about (or talk about) having had an

> >> INSIGHT (an

> >> Aha! moment) in a real-life situation (we've all had them), or

> >> where they

> >> discovered they had been on the wrong track, and righted their

> >> view, or just

> >> didn't see the whole story or problem, and then REALIZED it, and  

> that

> >> realization sent them off in a different direction.

> >>

> >> What was the experience like?  What were the circumstances? What

> >> made them

> >> have the insight?  What changed because of it?  How does it feel to

> >> have

> >> such an insight?

> >>

> >> Part of the "self-esteem" problem (across the board in education)

> >> is that

> >> such moments of clarity and sometimes-critical judgment AS

> >> EXPERIENCED are

> >> taken for granted, not reflected on, and not valued by the learner

> >> themselves.  This judgment is fostered by our sometimes-obsessive

> >> assessments environment and by us, the educators, who continue to

> >> give the

> >> implicit message through our focus on testing, that such learning

> >> is really

> >> not that important--wink/wink, nod/nod.  And yet, these moments

> >> are the

> >> substantial internal movements, without which, all education is

> >> "rote" and

> >> meaningless.

> >>

> >> In my view, it's not that testing and assessments are bad; it's

> >> rather that

> >> an over-focus on assessments has erased its own substantial

> >> center.  If we

> >> cannot directly test for it, then it must not be important?

> >>

> >> Catherine King

> >> Adjunct Instructor

> >> Department of Education

> >> National University

> >> San Diego, CA

> >>

> >>

> >> ----- Original Message -----

> >> From: "Gabb, Sally S." <Sally.Gabb at bristolcc.edu>

> >> To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List"

> >> <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov>

> >> Sent: Wednesday, July 16, 2008 5:04 AM

> >> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2313] Re: Critical Thinking and

> >> LearnerLeadership

> >>

> >>

> >> Great answer as always Wendy!  Since being able to think

> >> 'critically' is

> >> indeed 'on the test', you have hit the nail on the head (great

> >> metaphor or

> >> cliché??) Thank - and an important part of 'transition to college'

> >> learning

> >> as well.  Sally Gabb, Developmental Reading, Bristol Community

> >> College, Fall

> >> River MA

> >>

> >> -----Original Message-----

> >> From: professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov

> >> [mailto:professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of  

> Wendy

> >> Quinones

> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 5:36 PM

> >> To: professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov

> >> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2312] Critical Thinking and  

> Learner

> >> Leadership

> >>

> >> David and all,

> >> Anyone who's ever taught a GED class will tell you that English

> >> language

> >> learners aren't the only ones with opinions about how their classes

> >> should

> >> be taught -- "Is this going to be on the test?" is the mantra of

> >> the GED

> >> student.  Their assumption is that the GED  consists of discrete

> >> items that

> >> can be taught, and on that basis they want to learn "stuff" rather

> >> than the

> >> habits of thought that will benefit them both on the test and in

> >> future

> >> life.  How do we challenge that assumption when it is precisely  

> that

> >> challenge that a great many GED students want to avoid?  In my

> >> experience,

> >> telling students that the GED is not about content is a lost cause;

> >> at least

> >> at first, they simply don't believe it.  I'm afraid I have taken to

> >> abusing

> >> my position as an authority figure, and I simply answer "Yes" to  

> that

> >> question whenever it's asked, no matter what crazy (to them) thing

> >> I'm

> >> asking them to do.  My reasoning is simple:  most haven't had the

> >> experience

> >> of being in a situation where they are valued as thinkers, so they

> >> don't

> >> know what that kind of classroom environment looks like.  Without

> >> that

> >> experience, how can they make informed judgments about how they

> >> best learn?

> >> If telling them that everything in the class will be on the test

> >> will open

> >> them to new methods that do value their thinking, I will certainly

> >> do it.

> >> Eventually we do get to practice on GED test items, but by then

> >> they have

> >> learned that getting the "right" answer (and what is more

> >> discouraging to

> >> critical thinking than that!?!?!) is more a matter of critical

> >> thinking and

> >> clear reasoning than of memorizing "stuff."

> >>

> >> Wendy Quinones

> >>

> >> ----------------------------------------------------

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> >> Adult_Literacy_Professional_Development

> >>

> >>

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