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[ProfessionalDevelopment 2321] Re: critical thinking and numeracyTaylor, Jackie jataylor at utk.eduWed Jul 16 14:01:31 EDT 2008
Hi Tricia, All, Tricia, thanks for sharing this. In tandem with the other threads under discussion, I'm wondering if you might give us some examples of ways in which topics of a social justice concern can intersect with numeracy. And if you have specific resources or lesson activity examples to share, that would be great, too. I'm also wondering about science and history. In what ways might numeracy interact with these areas to promote critical thinking -- and how might that be approached in ways that build on students' real interests and concerns? I'm thinking specifically of ABE learners though I welcome suggestions for ESL too. Does anyone have thoughts on that? Thanks, Jackie Jackie Taylor jataylor at utk.edu -----Original Message----- From: professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Patricia Donovan Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2008 7:31 AM To: professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2307] Re: critical thinking and numeracy Hello Jackie and All, I haven't been in town to read all the entries on critical thinking, but what I have perused appears to focus on the development of critical thinking through literacy practices. Some of us who offer professional development related to numeracy find it a perfect venue for exploring critical thinking. Graphs, charts, and data analysis in particular, offer great launches for discussions about 'whose interests are served,' and ' how else might you interpret this data' or 'how does the choice of incremental intervals on the y axis affect your view of the data.' In addition, the topics chosen for problems, which can be selected from areas of social justice concern, can set the stage for critical thinking in numeracy. I'd be interested to hear how others out there in the field use numeracy instruction and professional development to foster critical thinking. Tricia Donovan SABES "Training Leaders in Adult Basic Education" Tricia Donovan, Ed.D. SABES CRC World Education 44 Farnsworth St. Boston, MA 02210 617-482-9485 x3785 Fax 617-482-0617 >>> <professionaldevelopment-request at nifl.gov> 7/14/2008 9:26 AM >>> Send ProfessionalDevelopment mailing list submissions to professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/professionaldevelopment or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to professionaldevelopment-request at nifl.gov You can reach the person managing the list at professionaldevelopment-owner at nifl.gov When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of ProfessionalDevelopment digest..." Today's Topics: 1. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2272] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? (Bonnie Odiorne) 2. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2273] Re: Critical Thinking in Professional Development (Bonnie Odiorne) 3. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2274] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? (Steve Kaufmann) 4. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2275] On dialogue and critical thinking (Taylor, Jackie) 5. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2276] A topic not mentioned in the critical thinking discussion (Rose M Brandt) 6. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2277] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? (Janet Isserlis) 7. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2278] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? (Jane Greiner) 8. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2279] Re: On dialogue and critical thinking (Ochieng kh) 9. [ProfessionalDevelopment 2280] Re: On dialogue and critical thinking (Steve Kaufmann) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:11:05 -0700 (PDT) From: Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2272] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <327004.60298.qm at web83305.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Kearney, and all, Rhetoric, though I was not necessarily "defending" this discipline, is at the foundation of almost all composition courses, and thus important for those seeking post-secondary education, I was concerned at the moment of the post about the connection between language and activism, between language and action. Rhetoric is a "metacompetency" that gets students to think about language and how they think, metacognitiion,?and thus is on the way to critical thinking. In addition to becoming more aware of their own language, it also sensitizes students to language strategies that can be effective, or manipulate, and so they could study their own lives, the media and consumerism that surrounds them, and not believe that just because something is in print (or on the Internet) makes it so. If they see their peers becoming victimized by such manipulation, like the advertisements of a certain phonics system on Hispanic tv, they will take action. Bonnie Odiorne, Post University ----- Original Message ---- From: Kearney Lykins <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com> To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 5:11:19 PM Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2271] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? Steve, ? In defense of the study of rhetoric, it is precisely because it?is the one field of study that openly acknowledges and examines the relationship between emotions and persuasion,?that it is especially valuable in?helping one?to be a more critical (wiser)?thinker. Yes, this knowledge can be used perniciously, but that is a question of ethics, and indeed is a concern for every field of study. ? Anyone who has ever participated in forensic speech (debate club) can surely attest to how?taking "the other side"?of an argument?improves one's critical thinking abilities. ? Regards, ? Kearney ? ? ----- Original Message ---- From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 2:52:42 PM Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2266] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? Bonnie, I agree with you. Rhetoric as practiced by the ancients is a good discipline. It helps you to organize your thoughts in order to persuade others. This forces you to think about logical connections between ideas. It does not make you more open minded. Most of us arrive at our points of view emotionally, rather than through some clear "critical thinking" path. The skills of rhetoric are useful tools for persuading others of our beliefs. I do not think that most English teachers, myself included, can teach our learners to think, critically or otherwise, nor is it our mandate. Here is what I said recently in reply to a questioner at one of my youtubes. 1) You can teach methods of organizing your thoughts in order to express them convincingly. I don't believe ESL teachers can teach how to think, how to be open to new ideas, how to question assumptions, without imposing their own assumptions. We arrive at our views based more on emotion than logic, and use logic to justify these views. 2)Language is part of your culture and affects your world view. Each successive language you learn opens your mind to new perspectives. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/professionaldevelopment/attachments/200807 12/e39caf8f/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Sat, 12 Jul 2008 18:31:45 -0700 (PDT) From: Bonnie Odiorne <bonniesophia at sbcglobal.net> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2273] Re: Critical Thinking in Professional Development To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <919454.53944.qm at web83307.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7" In my PD role of training Writing Center tutors, I have to make sure they learn to ask questions, and not assume they know what the student wants to say. To ask a student to articulate meaning when s/he hasn't stated it clearly is a step to clear writing, but also clear thinking. I caution them about imposing their own interpretation--even grammatical--on a student's work, and ask the student to find what might have gone wrong and try to correct it. In other words, I try, as much as possible, though not as often as I'd like in my own tutoring one-on-one practice, especially erlectronically, when I'm crunched for time and deadlines (theirs and mind) to ask the student to generate the ideas if they're not stated correctly, clearly, or more strategically. Most faculty when they see a badly written paper just assume the student doesn't know how to write, and dismiss it. To tease the underlying thoughts out through an entire writing process (from brainstorming on) or form a draft is the ideal Writing Center relationship. The students think they're just learning to write correctly, but they're really learning to pay attention to their thinking. I also teach that in reading comprehension: ask the students to pay attention to how they read--even if it is still on the level of comprehension. Could they learn more effective strategies? How could this help them understand and be more actively engaged in what they're reading, and not just dismiss it as "boring." Again, they're learning how to think, not "just" to read. In other PD roles as tutor trainer my biggest battle was to caution tutors against unconscious bias, and we had exercises for that, as well as active listening. Brookfield, in his article on assessing critical thinking, has a situational format of story-telling, detectives, and an umpire to detect unconscious bias in any or all of the participants, contending that critical thinking cannot be assessed in a standardized but only a situational way. Enough from me before I become more incoherent than usual. Bonnie Odiorne, Post University ----- Original Message ---- From: "Taylor, Jackie" <jataylor at utk.edu> To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 3:09:10 PM Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2265] Critical Thinking in Professional Development Dear Colleagues, This has been a fascinating discussion and I am working on a draft compilation of the wide range of ways we?ve said that we understand critical thinking, strategies for critical thinking and student involvement, along with links to threads of discussion sorted by theme. ? In the meantime I?d like to call our attention to a point Phillip made and a question Cynthia raised: ? What are the implications are for professional development? Do we promote critical exploration of issues in professional development and if so, how? ? I welcome your thoughts. ? Best, Jackie ? Jackie Taylor, List Moderator, jataylor at utk.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/professionaldevelopment/attachments/200807 12/6cc47415/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:43:00 -0700 From: "Steve Kaufmann" <steve at thelinguist.com> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2274] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List" <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <f1a6e820807111443o7847fda9r827dd69b211fb64a at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Kearney, I do not dispute that debating or the practice of rhetoric can improve one's ability to reason. I also believe that all rhetorical techniques, include hyperbole, allegory and even sarcasm have their place. Defending one's position, countering these techniques, and using them, is a good exercize in reasoning, even though the assumptions are usually arrived at before the "critical thinking" begins. Unfortunately, the recent trend in educational circles seems to favour "dialoguing", whereby we pretend to agree with whatever is said, and look for points that we have in common, and should avoid trying to persuade anyone of one's point of view. This leads to a sterile discussion. It only works if everyone actually does agree, or if contrary views can be suppressed.. Here, on this forum, it has appeared to me that "critical thinking" has been discussed in the sense that English teachers are looking for ways to help their students to challenge basic their assumptions as part of their English learning, and at a very early stage in their English learning. I feel that this is unrealistic. Try persuading a religious person to challenge the basic assumptions of their religion and see how far you get. Rhetoric, is a valuable and an advanced skill, and can only be taught after one has a sufficient range of vocabulary to use it effectively. I am of the opinion that beginner ESL learners should be allowed to listen to the language and try to enjoy it, with little requirement to state what their assumptions are on anything. Steve On Fri, Jul 11, 2008 at 2:11 PM, Kearney Lykins <kearney_lykins at yahoo.com> wrote: > Steve, > > > > In defense of the study of rhetoric, it is precisely because it is the one > field of study that openly acknowledges and examines the relationship > between emotions and persuasion, that it is especially valuable in helping > one to be a more critical (wiser) thinker. Yes, this knowledge can be used > perniciously, but that is a question of ethics, and indeed is a concern for > every field of study. > > > > Anyone who has ever participated in forensic speech (debate club) can > surely attest to how taking "the other side" of an argument improves one's > critical thinking abilities. > > > > Regards, > > > > Kearney > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> > To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List < > professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> > Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 2:52:42 PM > Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2266] Re: Whatdo > wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? > > Bonnie, > > I agree with you. Rhetoric as practiced by the ancients is a good > discipline. It helps you to organize your thoughts in order to persuade > others. This forces you to think about logical connections between ideas. It > does not make you more open minded. Most of us arrive at our points of view > emotionally, rather than through some clear "critical thinking" path. The > skills of rhetoric are useful tools for persuading others of our beliefs. I > do not think that most English teachers, myself included, can teach our > learners to think, critically or otherwise, nor is it our mandate. > Here is what I said recently in reply to a questioner at one of my > youtubes. > 1) You can teach methods of organizing your thoughts in order to express > them convincingly. I don't believe ESL teachers can teach how to think, how > to be open to new ideas, how to question assumptions, without imposing their > own assumptions. We arrive at our views based more on emotion than logic, > and use logic to justify these views. > 2)Language is part of your culture and affects your world view. Each > successive language you learn opens your mind to new perspectives. > > <http://ca.youtube.com/video_response_upload?v=to9asMOReyY> > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Adult Literacy Professional Development mailing list > professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/professionaldevelopment > > Professional Development section of the Adult Literacy Education Wiki > > http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Adult_Literacy_Professional_Devel opment > -- Steve Kaufmann www.lingq.com 1-604-922-8514 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/professionaldevelopment/attachments/200807 11/0ffaab99/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:29:42 -0400 From: "Taylor, Jackie" <jataylor at utk.edu> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2275] On dialogue and critical thinking To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List" <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <0913EC48F2B05C4FBE4878BAFCABBFEC02563A9C at KFSVS2.utk.tennessee.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Hi Steve, (All) You wrote: "Unfortunately, the recent trend in educational circles seems to favour "dialoguing", whereby we pretend to agree with whatever is said, and look for points that we have in common, and should avoid trying to persuade anyone of one's point of view. This leads to a sterile discussion. It only works if everyone actually does agree, or if contrary views can be suppressed.." I disagree with how you are characterizing dialogue. Do you mean to equate dialogue with some type of cooperation or consensus, or group think..? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink) I believe dialogue is about presenting one's point of view, but then looking for meaning, suspending assumptions (i.e. suspend as in to hold out assumptions and examine them), being open to changing one's position... Dialogue and the knowledge constructed as a result are greater than the sum of its parts and what is constructed is only as rich as the diverse perspectives brought to the table. It depends on seeking authentic meaning and a 'safe space' so that individuals feel comfortable expressing their views (thus eliciting more diverse perspectives). It does include finding common ground, but I see it as being more about constructing new knowledge, attitudes, and the group dynamics needed for that construction. And what does this have to do with critical thinking and student involvement? One uses critical thinking in dialogue. What does "the other" mean by what she said? How is what I'm saying reflected in the other's position? How is it not? How might I understand the other better? What are the "right questions" I need to ask in order to do that? All too often I think we are afraid to "ask back" for fear of appearing somehow "less than" or as if one might "not know" what the other means. It also levels the playing field and the instructor or facilitator is not perceived as "the expert" with all the answers; both students and instructors have expertise to contribute. It would be interesting, I think, to explore strategies for facilitating dialogue vs. debate. As always, I welcome others' thoughts. Best, Jackie Jackie Taylor jataylor at utk.edu -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/professionaldevelopment/attachments/200807 13/52aed9a1/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 16:33:36 -0500 From: Rose M Brandt <rmbrandt at juno.com> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2276] A topic not mentioned in the critical thinking discussion To: professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov Message-ID: <20080713.163340.3800.3.rmbrandt at juno.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" I just finished reading through the critical thinking discussion. I'd like to share a thought before it closes on Monday. Unless I read too quickly and missed it, I don't think there was any discussion of critical thinking in math. I believe that one reason that our educational system does not produce people with better math skills is the lack of focus on critical thinking in math as opposed to simply mastering operations or learning formulas. Rose Brandt -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/professionaldevelopment/attachments/200807 13/540bf922/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:05:19 -0400 From: Janet Isserlis <Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2277] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <C4A0C74F.2332B%Janet_Isserlis at brown.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Steve and all I don't think you're saying that English learning should be like music appreciation ? that one can enjoy either (language or music) with no basis of prior expectation, concepts or assumptions? That the language or the music will just be heard and appreciated? Surely, part of the language learning process involves receiving/hearing/taking in. But for learning to occur, active processes of meaning-making have to happen. In order to learn, to make meaning, there needs to be some basis of prior understanding, of a world view, yes, of assumptions. The critical thinking part (in the target language, in this case English) may, for some, be merely a matter of learning the words to translate thoughts from a first language into English). For others, it's a process of asking questions, weighing options, learning more about possibilities and consequences. Janet From: Steve Kaufmann <steve at thelinguist.com> Reply-To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Date: Fri, 11 Jul 2008 14:43:00 -0700 > I am of the opinion that beginner ESL learners should be allowed to listen to the language and try to enjoy it, with little requirement to state what their assumptions are on anything. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/professionaldevelopment/attachments/200807 14/6f0f24ad/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 09:19:28 -0400 From: "Jane Greiner" <jgreiner at proliteracy.org> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2278] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List" <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <DBF40CF21F685B45B1D163F82E43A221AB284B at miller.proliteracy.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Hi Cynthia and all, Thanks for the question about PD that supports teachers' critical thinking skills. My concern is not that teachers do not think critically, but that the time and institutional support available for critical reflection on practice is not always available - for myriad reasons. Study circle, action research, and peer mentoring all seem to be ways to do this, but all require lots of back-up from the organizations. I'm particularly interested in how technology and onine forums can be used to support teachers' critical thinking about their practice. Jane Jane Greiner Professional Development Coordinator ProLiteracy -----Original Message----- From: Cynthia Peters [mailto:cynthia_peters at worlded.org] Sent: Friday, July 11, 2008 10:18 AM To: professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2258] Re:Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? Philip -- I think what you're raising is important. Can you share any strategies you've used to help students feel comfortable expressing what they know about the world? Also, do you have any thoughts on how to do PD in a way that develops *teachers'* critical thinking skills. I do believe it's a skill for all of us to be honing all the time. Cynthia >>> "Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 07/10/08 5:09 PM >>> Good points, Andy. I appreciate your response. I think I should have said that their critical thinking skills lead them to hide what they know about the world - it is a strategy that has kept them safe in situations that they felt may pose danger. What I think we might need to include in PD is the fact that adult ELLs, no matter their level, often have good critical thinking skills. Some teachers may at times perceive the low level adult ELL students as persons who are underdeveloped in their critical thinking skills, and not, as you said, the same as they are, people who do have critical thinking skills even though they may apply them inconsistently, and who could perhaps benefit from thinking in new and varied ways. CONTACT INFORMATION Philip Anderson Adult ESOL Program Florida Department of Education Tel (850) 245-9450 Please take a few minutes to provide feedback on the quality of service you received from our staff. The Department of Education values your feedback as a customer. Commissioner of Education Dr. Eric J. Smith is committed to continuously assessing and improving the level and quality of services provided to you.Simply use the link below. Thank you in advance for completing the survey. http://data.fldoe.org/cs/default.cfm?staff=Philip.Anderson@fldoe.org|17: 04:04%20Thu%2010%20Jul%202008 -----Original Message----- From: professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov [mailto:professionaldevelopment-bounces at nifl.gov] On Behalf Of Andy Nash Sent: Thursday, July 10, 2008 4:16 PM To: professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2253] Re: Whatdo wemeanbystudentinvolvement and critical thinking? Hmm, I see it more as a matter of being inconsistent in where and how we use those critical thinking skills. I consider myself a pretty critical thinker, but there are many times I'll hear someone else questioning something that I bought hook, line, and sinker - I didn't think at all critically about it. I believe that adult students are the same, which is why it's useful to invite critical thinking in new and varied areas. Andy Nash >>> "Anderson, Philip" <Philip.Anderson at fldoe.org> 07/10/08 3:46 PM >>> What I am getting at here is that it may be important to recognize that adult ELLs brim with critical thinking skills, but they also have developed a (survival?) technique for hiding these skills from those they perceive to be in authority and have more "school knowledge" than they have. Our professional development system may need to be sure to prepare teachers for working successfully with these students. CONTACT INFORMATION Philip Anderson Adult ESOL Program Florida Department of Education Tel (850) 245-9450 ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult Literacy Professional Development mailing list professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/professionaldevelopment Professional Development section of the Adult Literacy Education Wiki http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Adult_Literacy_Professional_Devel opment ---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult Literacy Professional Development mailing list professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/professionaldevelopment Professional Development section of the Adult Literacy Education Wiki http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Adult_Literacy_Professional_Devel opment ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2008 00:36:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Ochieng kh <ochykheyr at yahoo.com> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2279] Re: On dialogue and critical thinking To: The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <738192.56203.qm at web39105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" I share immensely in Jackie' views. In my?view, dialogue is about enriching and braodening horizons. It reconciles perspectives through shared understanding. It also generates clarity and objectivity in so far as issues and arguments are concerned. Best wishes, Ochieng M. Khairalla ? ? - On Sun, 7/13/08, Taylor, Jackie <jataylor at utk.edu> wrote: From: Taylor, Jackie <jataylor at utk.edu> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2275] On dialogue and critical thinking To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List" <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 4:29 PM Hi Steve, (All) ? You wrote: ? ?Unfortunately, the recent trend in educational circles seems to favour "dialoguing", whereby we pretend to agree with whatever is said, and look for points that we have in common, and should avoid trying to persuade anyone of one's point of view. This leads to a sterile discussion. It only works if everyone actually does agree, or if contrary views can be suppressed..? ? I disagree with how you are characterizing dialogue. Do you mean to equate dialogue with some type of cooperation or consensus, or group think..? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink) ? I believe dialogue is about presenting one?s point of view, but then looking for meaning, suspending assumptions (i.e. suspend as in to hold out assumptions and examine them), being open to changing one?s position? Dialogue and the knowledge constructed as a result are greater than the sum of its parts and what is constructed is only as rich as the diverse perspectives brought to the table. It depends on seeking authentic meaning and a ?safe space? so that individuals feel comfortable expressing their views (thus eliciting more diverse perspectives). It does include finding common ground, but I see it as being more about constructing new knowledge, attitudes, and the group dynamics needed for that construction. ? And what does this have to do with critical thinking and student involvement? ? One uses critical thinking in dialogue. What does ?the other? mean by what she said? How is what I?m saying reflected in the other?s position? How is it not? How might I understand the other better? What are the ?right questions? I need to ask in order to do that? All too often I think we are afraid to ?ask back? for fear of appearing somehow ?less than? or as if one might ?not know? what the other means. ? It also levels the playing field and the instructor or facilitator is not perceived as ?the expert? with all the answers; both students and instructors have expertise to contribute. It would be interesting, I think, to explore strategies for facilitating dialogue vs. debate. ? As always, I welcome others? thoughts. ? Best, Jackie ? Jackie Taylor jataylor at utk.edu ?---------------------------------------------------- National Institute for Literacy Adult Literacy Professional Development mailing list professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/professionaldevelopment Professional Development section of the Adult Literacy Education Wiki http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Adult_Literacy_Professional_Devel opment -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://www.nifl.gov/pipermail/professionaldevelopment/attachments/200807 14/073e13ac/attachment-0001.html ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Sun, 13 Jul 2008 19:47:08 -0700 From: "Steve Kaufmann" <steve at thelinguist.com> Subject: [ProfessionalDevelopment 2280] Re: On dialogue and critical thinking To: "The Adult Literacy Professional Development Discussion List" <professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov> Message-ID: <f1a6e820807131947i191938fftac6134e80eddd870 at mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Jacquie, Bonnie et al, Everyone has a bias. It is not possible to not have a bias. When Bonnie says "they could study their own lives, the media and consumerism that surrounds them, and not believe that just because something is in print (or on the Internet) makes it so. If they see their peers becoming victimized by such manipulation, like the advertisements of a certain phonics system on Hispanic tv, they will take action." she is expressing her biases:that the students cannot judge things by themselves, that consumerism (however defined) is bad (compared to what alternative), that the phonics system advertized on Hispanic TV is bad or their ads misleading. I once attended a one day seminar on "What it means to be Canadian" put on by the Centre for Dialogue" of Simon Fraser University here in Vancouver. We were lectured to at the beginning by a student who warned the audience, half of whom were not students, not to try to convince people but to "dialogue". We were encouraged to scribble down our random thoughts on pieces of paper. At my table, 6 people, of varying origins (Greek, Israeli, German, Pakistani) myself and our student host talked about multiculturalism. Four of us said that it was a bad idea because it weakened our sense of Canadian solidarity. The gentleman from Pakistan read a poem in favour of multiculturalism. When it came for our student host to summarize the discussion, she said that we all agreed on how wonderful Canada's policy of official multiculturalism was- that was her "consensus"! When I had a chance to chat with the student who lectured us on dialogue, he immediately accused my of being a bigot because I told him that most Canadians preferred to see immigrants assimilate, although it was, of course, up to them. It was obvious that these students only ever heard one side of most arguments so I offered to go to the university to speak to their group. They agreed on condition that I would just sit around and dialogue and not make a presentation. I declined and they accepted my conditions. University educated people, and especially university professors, are not more open-minded than humbler people. I hvae to go to dinner and will continue later. Steve On Sun, Jul 13, 2008 at 4:29 PM, Taylor, Jackie <jataylor at utk.edu> wrote: > Hi Steve, (All) > > > > You wrote: > > > > "Unfortunately, the recent trend in educational circles seems to favour > "dialoguing", whereby we pretend to agree with whatever is said, and look > for points that we have in common, and should avoid trying to persuade > anyone of one's point of view. This leads to a sterile discussion. It only > works if everyone actually does agree, or if contrary views can be > suppressed.." > > > > I disagree with how you are characterizing dialogue. Do you mean to equate > dialogue with some type of cooperation or consensus, or group think..? ( > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupthink) > > > > I believe dialogue is about presenting one's point of view, but then > looking for meaning, suspending assumptions (i.e. suspend as in to hold out > assumptions and examine them), being open to changing one's position? > Dialogue and the knowledge constructed as a result are greater than the sum > of its parts and what is constructed is only as rich as the diverse > perspectives brought to the table. It depends on seeking authentic meaning > and a 'safe space' so that individuals feel comfortable expressing their > views (thus eliciting more diverse perspectives). It does include finding > common ground, but I see it as being more about constructing new knowledge, > attitudes, and the group dynamics needed for that construction. > > > > And what does this have to do with critical thinking and student > involvement? > > > > One uses critical thinking in dialogue. What does "the other" mean by what > she said? How is what I'm saying reflected in the other's position? How is > it not? How might I understand the other better? What are the "right > questions" I need to ask in order to do that? All too often I think we are > afraid to "ask back" for fear of appearing somehow "less than" or as if one > might "not know" what the other means. > > > > It also levels the playing field and the instructor or facilitator is not > perceived as "the expert" with all the answers; both students and > instructors have expertise to contribute. It would be interesting, I think, > to explore strategies for facilitating dialogue vs. debate. > > > > As always, I welcome others' thoughts. > > > > Best, Jackie > > > > Jackie Taylor > > jataylor at utk.edu > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- > National Institute for Literacy > Adult Literacy Professional Development mailing list > professionaldevelopment at nifl.gov > > To unsubscribe or change your subscription settings, please go to > http://www.nifl.gov/mailman/listinfo/professionaldevelopment > > Professional Development section of the Adult Literacy Education Wiki > > http://wiki.literacytent.org/index.php/Adult_Literacy_Professional_Devel opment > -- Steve Kaufmann www.lingq.com 1-604-922-8514 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... 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