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21 July 2008
Afghan Judge Hashimi Discusses Legal Reform in Afghanistan
Ask America webchat transcript, July 21
Judge Abdul Saboor Hashimi, an Afghan chief judge of the Sangcharak district of Saripul province, participated in a July 21 Ask America webchat on Afghanistan’s justice system and where it is headed in the future.
Following is the transcript:
(begin transcript)
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Bureau of International Information Programs
Ask America Webchat Transcript
Legal Reform for Afghanistan
Guest: Judge Abdul Saboor Hashimi
Date: July 21, 2008
Time: 7:30 a.m. EDT (1130 GMT 1600 Kabul)
Moderator: Welcome to our webchat! We will begin on Monday, July 21 at 11:30 GMT (16:00 Kabul).
Judge Hashimi: I have a Bachelor of Law and Jurisprudence from the Sharia Law Faculty of Balkh University (1997). I have been a judge for nearly 7 years in the Balkh province of Afghanistan. I worked as Chief Judge of the Sangchurak district of Saripul province. I am currently the Visiting Foreign Judicial Fellow at the Federal Judicial Center (Washington, DC USA).
Question [Chat Participant]: Dear Sir, what is your goal in visiting the U.S.? What do you wish to bring to your homeland?
Answer [Judge Hashimi]: To study the United States legal system, in particular the federal judicial system. I hope to bring to Afghanistan a broader legal knowledge and apply to the trial process in Afghanistan to maintain fair trials within the judicial system.
Q [Amel]: Coming from Saudi Arabia and growing up in the US, I find it difficult for my country to apply democracy where we are required to vote for a president. The country consists of many tribes, different sects and political views that I find it nearly impossible to have democracy. In my view, monarchy keeps the country stable and free of conflict.
Q [WW2]: Is there any serious movement to separate Sharia from the Afghan judicial system?
A [Judge Hashimi]: No. Sharia is not against human rights, so the current system and binding law is suitable for Afghanistan and its people. In the current framework, we can maintain our judicial system.
Q [Abraham_Lincoln]: I understand that establishing an independent and strong judicial system takes time. So, in order to facilitate the process, it might be useful if a team of legal experts from western countries would stay in Afghanistan for a while and provide advices to Afghan legal experts there. Do you think such an arrangement would be helpful? Or, do you think that such an arrangement would be rather harmful and that a task of establishing the judicial system should be carried out only by Afghan legal experts? What kind of support can foreign countries possibly do for Afghan judicial system? I would appreciate your advice. Thank you.
A [Judge Hashimi]: Western countries can be most helpful in providing assistance with the physical aspects of the judicial system – providing equipment, educational resources, etc. Countries wanting to assist the Afghanistan judicial system should be familiar with the Afghanistan Supreme Court 5-year strategic plan.
Q [Omar2]: Do you think that Mr. Karzai was fully supporting the judicial reform program in AFG and that he was working hard on it? I think, no, he wasn't.
A [Judge Hashimi]: I think President Karzai is doing his job, but many problems remain in all areas of Afghanistan.
Q [Chat Participant]: Dear Sir, What is your impression of the U.S. Legal system? Can it be used in your homeland?
A [Judge Hashimi]: U.S. legal system is good for the American people. However, the U.S. legal system is different from the Afghan legal system. The way the U.S. applies rule of law principles to its legal structure is the best lesson to apply to the Afghan legal system.
Q [Obaidullah]: Salam, I just want to know what is your idea regarding legal system of Afghanistan, and how do you compare it with US legal system. Thanks.
A [Judge Hashimi]: The Afghanistan legal system is inquisitional, whereas the U.S. legal system is adversarial. They are very different systems.
Q [WW2]: The Afghan constitution (with the assistance of the US) allows for Sharia (Islamic law) to have significant influence over the Afghan judicial process. Can there truly be "equality under the law" for men and women, Muslims and non-Muslims...in effect genuine secular justice...when religious-based law plays any role in a judicial system, particularly when that religion does not treat gender equally and Muslims and non-Muslims equally?
A [Judge Hashimi]: All of these issues are covered by the Afghanistan Constitution and other related laws. I think this is a suitable system – equitable for all.
Moderator: Read through Afghanistan's Constitution at http://president.gov.af/english/constitution.mspx.
Q [Amel]: Will the judiciary system be based on Islamic Shariah law? Do you support a secular system?
A [Judge Hashimi]: The current judicial system is the best for the society of Afghanistan, because Afghanistan is a Muslim country.
Q [Afghan RoL 1]: How can we best ensure that judges assigned to certain provinces and districts are hearing cases in those areas?
A [Judge Hashimi]: Judges must send their statistical reports regarding the cases they hear to the Supreme Court, so it is known the number of cases judges receive and how they decide them.
Moderator: Read about the Supreme Court in Afghanistan at http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2007/November/20071128174012esnamfuak0.8012964.html.
Q [Amel]: Do you believe that democracy will serve the country best, and is it applicable to a country that consists of tribes?
A [Judge Hashimi]: The best democracy is Islamic democracy, and it works with all Afghans.
Q [feroogh]: Hi, this is Farhatullah Feroogh from Kabul University of Afghanistan, currently I am doing English Languages and Literature, this is the question, I would like to ask upon the issue of the Political Situation of the United States of America, how do you evaluate the political situation of the USA compare to the past?
Q [pawandsx]: Salam, this might be a question in others mind also, the question is: When a criminal is arrested by police, they report it to people by TV, radio etc, but why do people never get the news that the criminals were punished or released? If they do so people may trust them more. Thank you for giving us the chance to ask question.
A [Judge Hashimi]: Information regarding punishment or release of an accused criminal is made publicly available by the courts.
Q [Morid]: How do you want to bring reform in prosecution and court, just to bring judges and prosecutors in training class? I am working with one of these NGOs that work in this field as I know it will not work because it will not change their mind to do not involve in corruption.
A [Judge Hashimi]: I am optimistic about the future of the Afghanistan judicial system. I think it is better now than 5 years ago, and we are doing our best to expand rule of law within Afghanistan.
Q [Afghan RoL 1]: What would a successful Afghanistan justice sector system look like to you, and how can we best tell if we are headed in that direction?
A [Judge Hashimi]: The Afghanistan Supreme Court 5 year Strategic Plan has provisions that I think will greatly improve the Afghanistan judicial system. The plan mandates enough judges for all judicial positions. It also calls for the creation of a judicial education and training institute. In addition, the plan seeks to simplify the case management system through more efficient case filing.
Q [WW2]: Why did the United States, in its more than consultative/advisory role in setting up the reconstruction judicial system, allow the Sharia provision of Afghan constitution?
A [Judge Hashimi]: United States is assisting Afghanistan to maintain its rule of law system. They are a friend to Afghanistan, and are working to support Afghanistan's legal system. In my opinion, they have not served as a decision maker for the Afghanistan legal system.
Moderator: Please be patient. Judge Hashimi is reviewing your questions.
Q [Siavash]: Salaam, this is Siavash from Kabul University, Political Science Faculty, my question is this, what are the main legal rule to be applied for a criminal?
A [Judge Hashimi]: There are different rules depending on the subject of the case. In general, the criminal code of procedure governs criminal cases.
Q [Omar2]: Thank you moderator for the useful sites you wrote, I appreciate it.
Q [Kabul]: Hello, this is Rahimi from Afghanistan. Please tell me about judiciary system in Afghanistan.
A [Judge Hashimi]: The judicial system in Afghanistan is inquisitional. In Afghanistan, there are District courts, appeals courts, and a Supreme Court.
Moderator: Thank you for your participation, we're getting many questions today. The Judge will answer as many as he can.
Q [Mir]: Most of Afghan people complain about justice, and, judges ask for bribe/money to solve a case. What do you say? When will this stop?
A [Judge Hashimi]: In my experience, the losing party in a case often complains. However, I do not deny that there are issues of corruption in the courts. Judges are often underpaid, and although this is not an excuse for corrupt behavior, it is a factor. That said, I am optimistic that things are getting better regarding combating corruption within the courts. We must recognize that there is a not an overnight solution; broad change takes time.
Q [Omar2]: The U.S is not only supporting us in legal system, its area (schools, clinics, higher education, agriculture etc) of support is much broader than that the best examples are our army and the police force, while more than 37,000 U.S citizens are fighting terrorism and Taliban, it is not easy for the parents of those soldiers to accept that their children be in such a dangerous place, we definitely appreciate all ISAF and coalition forces.
Q [Rahi]: Judge Hashimi, do you think that the courts provide a fair justice to the Afghan citizens? Is there public confidence in courts?
A [Judge Hashimi]: Yes, the justice system is fair. However, I do think there are issues regarding the procedure of the justice system. For example, in several cases, the old system of bringing a lawsuit and its answer are still used. This system is very complicated. The Afghanistan Supreme Court 5 year plan has provisions to improve this system. Regarding public confidence, I think Afghans trust the courts. They respect that the courts have the final say regarding legal disputes,
Q [Siavash]: Hashimi sahib, what do you think of the rule of law and governance here in our country, Afghanistan?
A [Judge Hashimi]: It is getting better day by day.
Q [Reza2]: Hi Mr. Hashimi, I am Reza Huseini and live in Mazar. I am so happy that I can write to you. As I am coordinating the Lincoln Center Mazar-e-Sharif, I want to know who you could join in this program and what’s your comment for the LCM students (We have class of Law here at center)?
A [Judge Hashimi]: Hi Mr. Reza, it is good to hear from you. I used to visit your Center. I will be back in Afghanistan in 2 months, and look forward to discussing this more when I return.
Q [Reza2]: Dear Mr. Hashimi, we were surprised when we heard about Mr. Ab. Jabbar Sabet. He was fired by President Karzai, what do you think about Sabet's activities? Was he able to change the system of judge in Afghanistan or bring it to better situation?
A [Judge Hashimi]: No, I feel his mental health affected his performance. Afghanistan needs a particular time and facility to bring changes to the legal system. Mr. Sabet's solution did not address the long-term issues within the judiciary.
Moderator: Anyone in today's webchat is welcome to join our other webchats at http://www.america.gov/multimedia/askamerica.html.
Q [Aria]: Is there any kind of opportunities that Afghan judges could go out of the country for higher education and more course, to enable them and justify well enough!
A [Judge Hashimi]: I think there are many opportunities for all Afghans, not just judges to study abroad. During my time in the U.S., I have learned of many opportunities. I look forward to sharing more about these opportunities when I return to Afghanistan.
Q [Omar2]: Reza Jan is a lucky man! I am sure Judge Hashimi will come back to AFG with a lot of resources and lessons learned from the U.S, I wish I were a Judge too! Anyway I will also join you guys in the reconstruction process of our AFG after some 3 years, it is not that far. Please learn from Judge Hashimi as much as you can.
Moderator: Please let us know what other webchat topics you would be interested in. We apologize if your question was not addressed at this time, we received many questions and we hope that you can understand and will join us for future chats.
Q [Omar2]: Thank you very much.
Judge Hashimi: Thank you for taking the time to discuss the Afghanistan judicial system. I have enjoyed this discussion, and look forward to further discussions after I return to Afghanistan. I wish for peace and stability in Afghanistan.
Moderator: We wish to thank Judge Hashimi for joining us today. The webchat is now closed. A full transcript of today's webchat will be published (usually within one business day) to our Ask America homepage.
(Speakers are chosen for their expertise and do not necessarily reflect the views or policies of the U.S. Department of State.)
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