• Mike White and Mark Schwartz

Observing phenologic changes offers GLOBE students of all ages an opportunity to contribute to our understanding of the global environment. Without a clear picture of what's happening on the ground, growing season estimates based solely on satellite data are subject to widely varying interpretations and their value for large-scale climate and ecological modeling is limited.

On March 21, scientists Mark Schwartz and Mike White hosted a Web chat on the GLOBE Budburst and Lilac Special Measurements and the results of the first year's budburst observations, which were recently published in an American Geophysical Union publication.

Be sure to read the Chief Scientist's Message on this topic before the chat.

[ Ann/GLOBE - 0 - 07:59:36 ]
Good morning and welcome to this Web chat on GLOBE's special budburst and lilac measurements. We welcome as our experts today Mark Schwartz and Mike White - scientists who are using GLOBE data to help conduct their research on growing seasons.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 1 - 08:01:59 ]
Hello!

[ Ann/GLOBE - 2 - 08:02:48 ]
Hi Mark, thanks for joining us. Can you tell us a bit about the nature of your research?

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 3 - 08:03:02 ]
First of all I want to thank the GLOBE schools and students who collected budburst data in 1999. The data were extremely helpful in our reseach. In 2000, we will have access to the Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS), a much better instrument the Advanced Very High Resolution Radiometer (AVHRR) we used in 1999. We will also have global coverage, so we will be able to use all the data collected by non-US schools. I encourage all the schools that took budburst last year to do so again and hope that many more will sign up for the protocol.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 4 - 08:04:19 ]
Mark, can you tell us about your lilac program?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 5 - 08:05:49 ]
I have been working to coordinate data taken from satellite measurements of the start of season (onset of greenness) with conventional phenological data taken from individual plants on the ground. In particular I have been working with genetically identical cloned plants planted originally as part of an eastern USA network staring in the early 1960s.

[ KayeHardison/WolfsonHigh/US - 6 - 08:07:18 ]
Hello, I am a first time GLOBE chat participant visiting NC from FL. Right before the last freeze in Charlotte there were many buds and blooms appearing on the pear trees. Do they rebud after the freeze, do new buds develop or is it a one time chance and it doesn't bud again after the freeze?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 7 - 08:07:23 ]
The lilacs give us a way of relating plant growth to climate and other environmental factors at a number of sites, keeping the plant response as close to the same as possible

[ AndreaGrix/KettunenCenter/US - 8 - 08:08:17 ]
Hello- My name is Andrea Grix. I am the Program Coordinator at GLOBE site: Kettunen Center. We are very interested in this special measurement protocol.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 9 - 08:09:00 ]
RE: [KayeHardison/WolfsonHigh/US] Hello, I am a first time GLOBE chat participant visiting NC from FL. Right before the last freeze in Charlotte there were many buds and blooms appearing on the pear trees. Do they rebud after the freeze, do new buds develop or is it a one time chance and it doesn't bud again after the freeze?
Most plants are very sensitive to the flowering stage. If a freeze happens then, the plants don't re-bloom. They are more hardy during leafing

[ Ann/GLOBE - 10 - 08:09:58 ]
Excellent question Kaye! This morning as I walked to work in the rain I was thinking about that little tune, "April showers bring May flowers." However, it seems like these days most flowers start blooming in March! But then a cold snap freezes them. I'd like to ask our experts if there is a trend of buds bursting earlier in the year.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 11 - 08:10:24 ]
RE: [KayeHardison/WolfsonHigh/US] Hello, I am a first time GLOBE chat participant visiting NC from FL. Right before the last freeze in Charlotte there were many buds and blooms appearing on the pear trees. Do they rebud after the freeze, do new buds develop or is it a one time chance and it doesn't bud again after the freeze?
Fruit trees can usually produce a new flush of leaves from secondary buds after a hard frost.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 12 - 08:10:41 ]
RE: [AndreaGrix/KettunenCenter/US] Hello- My name is Andrea Grix. I am the Program Coordinator at GLOBE site: Kettunen Center. We are very interested in this special measurement protocol.
Where specifically are you located?

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 13 - 08:11:28 ]
RE: [MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee] Most plants are very sensitive to the flowering stage. If a freeze happens then, the plants don't re-bloom. They are more hardy during leafing
Just to clarify - Mark is right ... they don't rebloom but can still produce leaves.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 14 - 08:12:37 ]
RE: [Ann/GLOBE] Excellent question Kaye! This morning as I walked to work in the rain I was thinking about that little tune, "April showers bring May flowers." However, it seems like these days most flowers start blooming in March! But then a cold snap freezes them. I'd like to ask our experts if there is a trend of buds bursting earlier in the year.
In many parts of the world, especially in northern latitudes, there appears to be a trend toward earlier dates of spring growth. In the 1990s, most of this trend is occurring in Europe.

[ MCraft/NorthvilleCSD/US - 15 - 08:13:13 ]
We are one of the schools that received the lilacs last year. After preparing them for the winter and flagging them so they would be seen, the snow removal crew still found a way to bury them in snow. I looked at them yesterday and they are still partially covered with snow and some of the roots look to be out of the ground. Our ground is still frozen at a depth below 5cm. Can these lilacs be saved? Can I transplant them as soon as the frost goes out?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 17 - 08:13:57 ]
RE: [Ann/GLOBE] Excellent question Kaye! This morning as I walked to work in the rain I was thinking about that little tune, "April showers bring May flowers." However, it seems like these days most flowers start blooming in March! But then a cold snap freezes them. I'd like to ask our experts if there is a trend of buds bursting earlier in the year.
Data from my studies in North America and a related study in Europe have shown that springs are getting earlier since about 1959. A note of caution though, as there is still a very large amount of year-to-year variability (in other words all years are not earlier). However, the last three years (1998-1999-2000) have appeared to have earlier springs in Wisconsin, about two weeks earlier than the 30 year average.

[ KayeHardison/WolfsonHigh/US - 18 - 08:14:32 ]
excuse our typo - we are enjoying the chat

[ Rebecca/GLOBE - 19 - 08:15:08 ]
Hi Mark and Mike. Like Ann, I was wondering whether there is a trend for buds bursting earlier in the year. This year in particular around Washington DC, the buds appeared very early, or at least that is what it seemed to me.

[ Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 20 - 08:16:23 ]
Hi. My name is Thanasis Apostolidis, student from Greece. I would like to ask what is the reason that the plants come into buds. The plants are being affected from the change of the season? Of the temperature or because of the luminocity?

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 21 - 08:16:23 ]
The point Mark raises is very important - the year to year variability in phenology is huge. The same plants can have budburst dates one month different from year to year. This is why we need long-term, consistently measured datasets to identify real trends. This is also why we are so excited about working with GLOBE.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 22 - 08:17:33 ]
RE: [MCraft/NorthvilleCSD/US] We are one of the schools that received the lilacs last year. After preparing them for the winter and flagging them so they would be seen, the snow removal crew still found a way to bury them in snow. I looked at them yesterday and they are still partially covered with snow and some of the roots look to be out of the ground. Our ground is still frozen at a depth below 5cm. Can these lilacs be saved? Can I transplant them as soon as the frost goes out?
The burying in snow doesn't necessarily mean they won't survive, unless they were crushed. The roots out of the ground are a much bigger problem. I'd try to cover these as quickly as possible. Don't move the plants unless you have to. This will affect their leafing response. If you do need to move them try to do it before the leaf and get all of the roots.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 23 - 08:17:35 ]
RE: [Rebecca/GLOBE] Hi Mark and Mike. Like Ann, I was wondering whether there is a trend for buds bursting earlier in the year. This year in particular around Washington DC, the buds appeared very early, or at least that is what it seemed to me.
Rebecca - from what I know about the D.C. winter/spring, it was pretty mild. This will usually cause buds to burst earlier.

[ AndreaGrix/KettunenCenter/US - 24 - 08:17:38 ]
Kettunen Center is located 12 miles south of Cadillac, Michigan- NW area of Michigan's lower peninsula. And we do have a question for the chat: We assumed the buds opened in response to the change of amounts of daylight (photo period).

[ celine/kokemakiya/FI - 25 - 08:18:00 ]
Hello!

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 26 - 08:19:00 ]
RE: [Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR] Hi. My name is Thanasis Apostolidis, student from Greece. I would like to ask what is the reason that the plants come into buds. The plants are being affected from the change of the season? Of the temperature or because of the luminocity?
These plants were are using respond primarily to warmer temperatures

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 27 - 08:19:38 ]
RE: [Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR] Hi. My name is Thanasis Apostolidis, student from Greece. I would like to ask what is the reason that the plants come into buds. The plants are being affected from the change of the season? Of the temperature or because of the luminocity?
I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but plants burst their buds because it is no longer necessary to protect themselves against frost injury (at least in northern latitudes). This is usually controlled by a change in the seasons, primarilly temperature warming. Some plants are very sensitive to the length of the day too.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 28 - 08:20:42 ]
RE: [AndreaGrix/KettunenCenter/US] Kettunen Center is located 12 miles south of Cadillac, Michigan- NW area of Michigan's lower peninsula. And we do have a question for the chat: We assumed the buds opened in response to the change of amounts of daylight (photo period).
Andrea-the longer photoperiod is only part of the story. If this were the only factor, budburst would occur on the same day every year. The huge year-to-year variation is mostly due to variatio in temperature

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 29 - 08:21:05 ]
RE: [AndreaGrix/KettunenCenter/US] Kettunen Center is located 12 miles south of Cadillac, Michigan- NW area of Michigan's lower peninsula. And we do have a question for the chat: We assumed the buds opened in response to the change of amounts of daylight (photo period).
The lilacs respond primarily to temperature, rather than photoperiod chances. This accounts for the rayther large year to year variability potential, and the interest to climatologists!

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 30 - 08:21:24 ]
RE: [celine/kokemakiya/FI] Hello!
Hello Celine - are plants in your area beginning their spring growth?

[ John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 31 - 08:21:27 ]
Hello from Athens Greece!! Hello Thanasis! Here in Athens the weather is not good. The temperature is about 7 -14 degrees and we have rain.

[ Ann/GLOBE - 33 - 08:23:35 ]
Which GLOBE protocols are important to take in conjunction with the budburst observations?

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 34 - 08:25:00 ]
RE: [Ann/GLOBE] Which GLOBE protocols are important to take in conjunction with the budburst observations?
It's very important to take the atmospheric measurements, especially temperature. This will allow the schools to do the supplementary learning activities.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 35 - 08:25:48 ]
RE: [Ann/GLOBE] Which GLOBE protocols are important to take in conjunction with the budburst observations?
Having corresponding daily temperature measurements are the most important for my work. This way I can use the data to refine my models, as well as check their accuracy and track spring changes.

[ celine/kokemakiya/FI - 36 - 08:25:55 ]
Hi my name is Aino and i live in Finland.I have some questions about clouds.What cloudtype is largest in sky?

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 37 - 08:26:03 ]
Here's a question for students - why do you think that different species growing in the same area burst their buds at different times?

[ John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 38 - 08:26:44 ]
Is the almond-tree the first one that burst its buds earlier every year? In Greece this happens in the second week of January

[ Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 39 - 08:26:55 ]
Hi John. One more question. What methods do you use for your research in phenology?

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 40 - 08:27:16 ]
RE: [celine/kokemakiya/FI] Hi my name is Aino and i live in Finland.I have some questions about clouds.What cloudtype is largest in sky?
Hmm ... I'm no atmospheric scientist, but I'd guess that cumulomimbus clouds are the biggest.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 41 - 08:28:17 ]
RE: [celine/kokemakiya/FI] Hi my name is Aino and i live in Finland.I have some questions about clouds.What cloudtype is largest in sky?
If you mean which occurs most often? That depends a lot on where you live and the time of year. In many mid-latitude climates low "stratus" clouds are the most common in winter, while fluffy "cumulus" clouds are the most common in summer.

[ ninni/kokemakiya/FI - 42 - 08:28:21 ]
I live Finland too.Is that always "nimbuscloud" who rains?...Can cumulusclouds rain ?!

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 43 - 08:28:59 ]
RE: [Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR] Hi John. One more question. What methods do you use for your research in phenology?
Thanasis - I mostly use satellites, computer models, and networks of ground observations (like GLOBE!) And oops, that's cumulonimbus

[ celine/kokemakiya/FI - 44 - 08:29:38 ]
MarkSchwartz -> Yes!I mean that!Thank you.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 45 - 08:29:44 ]
RE: [MichaelWhite/UMT] Hmm ... I'm no atmospheric scientist, but I'd guess that cumulomimbus clouds are the biggest.
Mike is right if you mean "tallest". They extend up to the tropopause, 6-7 miles.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 46 - 08:31:19 ]
RE: [ninni/kokemakiya/FI] I live Finland too.Is that always "nimbuscloud" who rains?...Can cumulusclouds rain ?!
Rain is mostly produced by cululonimbus and nimbostratus clouds

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 47 - 08:31:45 ]
RE: [ninni/kokemakiya/FI] I live Finland too.Is that always "nimbuscloud" who rains?...Can cumulusclouds rain ?!
A number of clouds can produce rain. Stratus and other low clouds produce light rain. Cumulonimbus are the clouds of thunderstorms and produce heavy downpours (at least potentially).

[ ninni/kokemakiya/FI - 48 - 08:32:57 ]
Is thunderclouds always "nimbo-clouds"?

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 49 - 08:33:23 ]
Most rain is formed by melted snow or ice parcicles falling from the clouds. Raindrops from cold clouds tend to be larger than raindrops from warm clouds.

[ Rebecca/GLOBE - 50 - 08:33:32 ]
RE: [celine/kokemakiya/FI] Hi my name is Aino and i live in Finland.I have some questions about clouds.What cloudtype is largest in sky?
Hi Aino. The largest clouds may depend on what you mean by large. Stratus clouds can cover a large area horizontally. Cumulus clouds can extend great distances vertically.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 51 - 08:33:40 ]
RE: [Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR] Hi John. One more question. What methods do you use for your research in phenology?
I am doing mostly statistical comparisons of different types of data.

[ KayeHardison/WolfsonHigh/US - 52 - 08:34:21 ]
It sounds like the scientists are suggesting that air temperature has the greatest impact on when buds burst. But what about rainfall amounts...or soil temperature? Do these affect when buds burst?

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 54 - 08:36:35 ]
Cloud cover, especially at night, is generally increasing in the U.S. This also appears to be increasing the night minimum temperatures in the U.S. more than the daytime maximums. It's not clear exactly how this kind of asymmetric warming will affect budburst, and it's a topic I'd like to examine in my work. So keep the budburst data coming! ps Mark do you have any thoughts on this?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 55 - 08:38:19 ]
RE: [KayeHardison/WolfsonHigh/US] It sounds like the scientists are suggesting that air temperature has the greatest impact on when buds burst. But what about rainfall amounts...or soil temperature? Do these affect when buds burst?
Rainfall will not have an impact on trees and shrubs, unless there is a drought. If rainfall has been adequate the effect on spring leafing is minimal. Soil temperatures are a reflection of longer-term air temperature changes and can have an impact. More with some species than others.

[ John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 56 - 08:38:28 ]
What is the effect of the reduce of the ozon layer on the plants buds burst? What is the effect of ozon on the plants buds burst?

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 57 - 08:38:55 ]
RE: [KayeHardison/WolfsonHigh/US] It sounds like the scientists are suggesting that air temperature has the greatest impact on when buds burst. But what about rainfall amounts...or soil temperature? Do these affect when buds burst?
Kaye - for some plants, soil temperature is very important. For growth to occur, many hormones produced by fine roots have to be produced. This generally requires thawed soils. In areas like the subtropics, soil water plays a very important role ... when the rains begin, so does the plant growth. Of course, there are bizarre exceptions like some trees in Australia with very deep roots that grow at maximum rates during extreme drought.

[ LindaSutton/ColumbusMiddleSchool/US - 58 - 08:40:57 ]
Is to possible to participate in this part of GLOBE from Los Angeles?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 59 - 08:41:05 ]
RE: [MichaelWhite/UMT] Cloud cover, especially at night, is generally increasing in the U.S. This also appears to be increasing the night minimum temperatures in the U.S. more than the daytime maximums. It's not clear exactly how this kind of asymmetric warming will affect budburst, and it's a topic I'd like to examine in my work. So keep the budburst data coming! ps Mark do you have any thoughts on this?
Mike...It may not affect the specific timing, but will likely affect the adequacy of chilling for the plants in winter, and their "readiness" to respond to spring warmth. Again with the high year to year variability this will be difficult to tease out at this point.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 60 - 08:42:55 ]
RE: [LindaSutton/ColumbusMiddleSchool/US] Is to possible to participate in this part of GLOBE from Los Angeles?
The lilacs are not suitable to grow in LA or California, because it does not get cold enough in winter. The budburst protocol could be recorded there (Mike, I think?)

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 61 - 08:43:03 ]
RE: [John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR] What is the effect of the reduce of the ozon layer on the plants buds burst? What is the effect of ozon on the plants buds burst?
Ozone is an absorber of ultraviolet radiation (UV). As the ozone hole develops there will be more UV radiation. Although I don't know for sure, I suspect that the effect of this would be to damage the leaves once they are out rather than to affect dates of budburst. At the surface (as opposed to in the upper atmosphere where the hole is appearing), ozone is a critical precursor to photochemically-produced smog which can cause pretty severe leaf damage.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 62 - 08:43:40 ]
RE: [John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR] What is the effect of the reduce of the ozon layer on the plants buds burst? What is the effect of ozon on the plants buds burst?
No specific effect that I am aware of

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 63 - 08:44:38 ]
RE: [MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee] The lilacs are not suitable to grow in LA or California, because it does not get cold enough in winter. The budburst protocol could be recorded there (Mike, I think?)
The budburst protocol could certainly be done in LA. If you're not already a GLOBE school, just go to the GLOBE website and sign up there.

[ John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 64 - 08:44:44 ]
Thank you Michael!

[ MarinaiZlatko/GimnazijaMatijaMesi/HR - 65 - 08:44:52 ]
Hello, we are GLOBE teachers from high school in Slavonski Brod, on the left side of river Sava. We want to ask you some questions about budburst and lillac. Last year we were looking after budburst on three locations - 500 m, 10 km and 20 km from our school and atmospheric site. So we have those data, but we did not send them, because we did not have GPS positions. Now we have GPS positions and we are continuing our measurements on those locations. Can we send you data from last year?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 66 - 08:45:01 ]
RE: [MichaelWhite/UMT] Ozone is an absorber of ultraviolet radiation (UV). As the ozone hole develops there will be more UV radiation. Although I don't know for sure, I suspect that the effect of this would be to damage the leaves once they are out rather than to affect dates of budburst. At the surface (as opposed to in the upper atmosphere where the hole is appearing), ozone is a critical precursor to photochemically-produced smog which can cause pretty severe leaf damage.
I agree with Mike, but this is outside my area of expertise

[ MarinaiZlatko/GimnazijaMatijaMesi/HR - 67 - 08:47:13 ]
Another question is about lilac investigation. Is it too late to plant them tomorrow because we have just recieve three plants?

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 68 - 08:47:20 ]
RE: [MarinaiZlatko/GimnazijaMatijaMesi/HR] Hello, we are GLOBE teachers from high school in Slavonski Brod, on the left side of river Sava. We want to ask you some questions about budburst and lillac. Last year we were looking after budburst on three locations - 500 m, 10 km and 20 km from our school and atmospheric site. So we have those data, but we did not send them, because we did not have GPS positions. Now we have GPS positions and we are continuing our measurements on those locations. Can we send you data from last year?
Yes, Marinai, we would love to have your data! How far apart are your sites? I'm not sure exactly how to enter data from last year ... perhaps our moderator can answer this one?

[ Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 69 - 08:47:44 ]
Excuse me but I was diconnected. Can you explain to me what do you mean when you say "comparisons of different types of data"?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 70 - 08:49:19 ]
RE: [MarinaiZlatko/GimnazijaMatijaMesi/HR] Another question is about lilac investigation. Is it too late to plant them tomorrow because we have just recieve three plants?
It will be too late to take observations this year, but next year the plants will be ready! Please proceed. What country are you in (I can't tell from your login)?

[ MarinaiZlatko/GimnazijaMatijaMesi/HR - 71 - 08:50:13 ]
And just another question - we have already watched lilac on two different locations, which we did not plant. And they have already shown us their first leaves. Are those data correct? Should we send them to the GLOBE?

[ John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 72 - 08:50:29 ]
Kali Nixta Thanasi.See you tomorrow.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 73 - 08:51:01 ]
I have a question about the almond trees in Greece - do you know the pollinator?

[ MarinaiZlatko/GimnazijaMatijaMesi/HR - 74 - 08:51:36 ]
We are from Croatia. Thank you for your answers. We shall continue our efforts about those plants.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 75 - 08:51:39 ]
RE: [Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR] Excuse me but I was diconnected. Can you explain to me what do you mean when you say "comparisons of different types of data"?
We have phenological dates from different types of plants, satellite-derived measurements of plant changes, and many different types of environmental data (temperatures, levels of gases like Carbon dioxide, solar energy, etc.)

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 76 - 08:52:18 ]
Mark - how much variation can you see between the clonal lilacs and local varieties?

[ Rebecca/GLOBE - 77 - 08:52:26 ]
RE: [MarinaiZlatko/GimnazijaMatijaMesi/HR] Hello, we are GLOBE teachers from high school in Slavonski Brod, on the left side of river Sava. We want to ask you some questions about budburst and lillac. Last year we were looking after budburst on three locations - 500 m, 10 km and 20 km from our school and atmospheric site. So we have those data, but we did not send them, because we did not have GPS positions. Now we have GPS positions and we are continuing our measurements on those locations. Can we send you data from last year?
Hello, I believe you can enter data from last year. I'll look into the matter to make sure. Please try to enter the data on the Web site and if you have any trouble you can contact me, Becky, at rboger@globe.gov.

[ Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 78 - 08:52:59 ]
I am afraid i don't know what pollinator means. What about?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 79 - 08:53:12 ]
RE: [MarinaiZlatko/GimnazijaMatijaMesi/HR] And just another question - we have already watched lilac on two different locations, which we did not plant. And they have already shown us their first leaves. Are those data correct? Should we send them to the GLOBE?
Try to have a horticultural expert determine if the are the species "Syringa vulgaris". If so, they can be used as the "common lilac" in the lilac protocol.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 80 - 08:53:17 ]
RE: [Rebecca/GLOBE] Hello, I believe you can enter data from last year. I'll look into the matter to make sure. Please try to enter the data on the Web site and if you have any trouble you can contact me, Becky, at rboger@globe.gov.
Thanks Becky

[ MarinaiZlatko/GimnazijaMatijaMesi/HR - 81 - 08:54:07 ]
We have to go to our classrooms. We are giving our regards to you and looking forward for your answers and, of course, for our future cooperation.

[ John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 82 - 08:54:32 ]
No exactly.I believe an insect is.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 83 - 08:55:02 ]
RE: [Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR] I am afraid i don't know what pollinator means. What about?
Pollinator is the animal that transfers pollen grains from the male to female reproductive organs (probably an insect or bird). This causes fertilization. I'm wondering if the very early flowering of the almond is tied to a specific animal phenology.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 84 - 08:56:12 ]
RE: [MichaelWhite/UMT] Mark - how much variation can you see between the clonal lilacs and local varieties?
Between Syringa vulgaris and my cloned syringa chinensis, only a few days (vulgaris is earlier). Other lilacs have quite different dates. I have some data on a different type in China, which correlates well, but is about a week earlier, apparently.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 85 - 08:58:03 ]
Mark, what were the other findings from your work in China?

[ Thanasis/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 86 - 08:58:38 ]
I have to go now. Goodnight to all of you. Kali Nixta John.

[ John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 87 - 08:59:29 ]
Deas the different season's light levels exercise an influence over the plants bud burst?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 88 - 08:59:43 ]
Results are still preliminary. The first leaf and first bloom model seems to work well there. First leaf and first bloom do not appear to have changed much over the last 40 years, but last frost date is gettin much earlier.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 89 - 08:59:58 ]
What does Kali Nixta mean?

[ LindaSutton/ColumbusMiddleSchool/US - 90 - 09:00:03 ]
Is it possible to do this project in Los Angeles, California?

[ John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 91 - 09:01:14 ]
To Michael: Kali Nixta means Good night in Greek.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 92 - 09:01:43 ]
RE: [LindaSutton/ColumbusMiddleSchool/US] Is it possible to do this project in Los Angeles, California?
Mike--What about budburst? This area will not work for the lilacs (winter too warm).

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 93 - 09:01:56 ]
RE: [John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR] Deas the different season's light levels exercise an influence over the plants bud burst?
The daylength usually doesn't matter too much, but the amount of radiation (affected by cloud cover, humidity, rain, aerosols, etc.) does seem to have some role. The more radiation there is, the earlier budburst seems to occur. But the role of temperature is much stronger. I think that radiation affects the rate of leaf expansion after budburst.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 94 - 09:03:02 ]
RE: [MichaelWhite/UMT] The daylength usually doesn't matter too much, but the amount of radiation (affected by cloud cover, humidity, rain, aerosols, etc.) does seem to have some role. The more radiation there is, the earlier budburst seems to occur. But the role of temperature is much stronger. I think that radiation affects the rate of leaf expansion after budburst.
Yes, the plants respond more to light after their "light gathering devices" (leaves) are open!

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 95 - 09:03:07 ]
RE: [MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee] Results are still preliminary. The first leaf and first bloom model seems to work well there. First leaf and first bloom do not appear to have changed much over the last 40 years, but last frost date is gettin much earlier.
Mark - in Napa, California, we found that the average date of last spring frost had advanced by about three weeks from 1950-1997! Wow.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 96 - 09:04:57 ]
RE: [MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee] Mike--What about budburst? This area will not work for the lilacs (winter too warm).
I think budburst protocol is possible. I'm not familiar enough with the socal vegetation to suggest a specific species, but I think that with a little bit of leafing through a local field guide, you could find one pretty easily.

[ John/3rdlyceumofEgaleo/Athens/GR - 97 - 09:06:19 ]
I have to go now.Thank you for your answers.I hope that we will see you in next web chats! Bye-Bye from Greece!!!

[ AndreaGrix/KettunenCenter/US - 98 - 09:06:52 ]
Mark- but if the first leaf and first bloom has not changed over 40years but the frost date is getting much earlier then is the soil temperature and moisture level, especially in Michigan, the factor that causes the budburst.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 99 - 09:07:06 ]
Mark - where in China were you working? How much of an oceanic influence on the climate was there?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 100 - 09:08:41 ]
RE: [MichaelWhite/UMT] Mark - in Napa, California, we found that the average date of last spring frost had advanced by about three weeks from 1950-1997! Wow.
I found some changes in last frost in North America also, with a general trend to earlier dates over the entire century. However, there was a lot of spatial variability, and "ups and downs" in that trend.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 101 - 09:12:41 ]
RE: [AndreaGrix/KettunenCenter/US] Mark- but if the first leaf and first bloom has not changed over 40years but the frost date is getting much earlier then is the soil temperature and moisture level, especially in Michigan, the factor that causes the budburst.
The air temperature still controls budburst, primarily. The leaves appear on lilacs and other shrubs in Michigan almost always well before the last frost. The timing and severity of that frost determines if the flowers are damaged.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 102 - 09:13:22 ]
RE: [AndreaGrix/KettunenCenter/US] Mark- but if the first leaf and first bloom has not changed over 40years but the frost date is getting much earlier then is the soil temperature and moisture level, especially in Michigan, the factor that causes the budburst.
The climate trends in Michigan could be very different from those in China. In Michigan, it's very unlikely that soil moisture affects budburst. At this time of the year, your soils are probably near saturation. But the soil temperatures could certainly be important.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 103 - 09:14:00 ]
RE: [MichaelWhite/UMT] Mark - where in China were you working? How much of an oceanic influence on the climate was there?
I have about 150 climate stations spread all over the country. The lilac data came from about 20 stations also widely distributed.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 104 - 09:14:50 ]
RE: [MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee] I have about 150 climate stations spread all over the country. The lilac data came from about 20 stations also widely distributed.
We have also just successfully this spring sent the lilac clones to china, so I'll have cloned data there to compare to in coming years.

[ Ann/GLOBE - 106 - 09:15:48 ]
How many years worth of data do you have for budburst? Is this all satellite data, or do you have a record of ground observations from other volunteer programs?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 107 - 09:17:05 ]
RE: [Ann/GLOBE] How many years worth of data do you have budburst? Is this pretty much all satellite data or does it include ground observations from other volunteer programs.
The lilac networks in the USA have data since the late 1950s, although the western survey ended in 1993 and the eastern network has only about 50 stations at present. The number of observers peaked in the mid-1970s.

[ AndreaGrix/KettunenCenter/US - 108 - 09:17:19 ]
Good-bye, this chat was very informative.

[ Ann/GLOBE - 109 - 09:18:28 ]
Mark, it's interesting that the number of observers peaked in the mid-1970s. I wonder if that was related at all to the great national interest in the environment of that period.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 110 - 09:18:30 ]
RE: [Ann/GLOBE] How many years worth of data do you have budburst? Is this pretty much all satellite data or does it include ground observations from other volunteer programs.
There are many different networks of phenological observations. Europe has a series of "phenological gardens". Many ex-Soviet Bloc countries have vast and long records for plant and animal phenology. The problem is that most of the dataset were independently created and are thus not really inter-comparable. This is why we need a world-wide consistent measurement scheme ... ie the GLOBE project.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 111 - 09:19:13 ]
RE: [Ann/GLOBE] How many years worth of data do you have for budburst? Is this all satellite data, or do you have a record of ground observations from other volunteer programs?
I use my models to simulate first leaf and first bloom from daily max-min temperature data. This extends the ability to make comparisons now and in the past. We are extremely hindered at present by a lack of ground phenology data. This is why the GLOBE protocols are so important.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 112 - 09:21:25 ]
RE: [Ann/GLOBE] Mark, it's interesting that the number of observers peaked in the mid-1970s. I wonder if that was related at all to the great national interest in the environment of that period.
Possibly, and it think it was also due to some early projects that tried (mostly unsucessfully) to use the new LANDSAT satellites to compare to surface observations. Those satellites did not repeat at the same location often enough to be useful (every 9-18 days assuming no cloud problems--which there usually are in spring).

[ Rebecca/GLOBE - 113 - 09:22:00 ]
Could you explain how lilac and budburst data complement each other? Why do one, the other or both?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 114 - 09:23:28 ]
RE: [MichaelWhite/UMT] There are many different networks of phenological observations. Europe has a series of "phenological gardens". Many ex-Soviet Bloc countries have vast and long records for plant and animal phenology. The problem is that most of the dataset were independently created and are thus not really inter-comparable. This is why we need a world-wide consistent measurement scheme ... ie the GLOBE project.
We are also working within various scientific societies around the world to promote the idea of "Global Phenological Monitoring" a set of coordinated protocols for use thoughout mid-latitude locations.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 115 - 09:24:16 ]
RE: [MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee] Possibly, and it think it was also due to some early projects that tried (mostly unsucessfully) to use the new LANDSAT satellites to compare to surface observations. Those satellites did not repeat at the same location often enough to be useful (every 9-18 days assuming no cloud problems--which there usually are in spring).
Mark raises a good point about satellite time coverage - the more the better for phenology work. Which raises another topic - the new GOES sensors will have a NIR channel at 4km resolution I believe. We could have half-hour coverage or so, or more than 20 chances of getting a could-free observation every day.

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 116 - 09:26:30 ]
RE: [Rebecca/GLOBE] Could you explain how lilac and budburst data complement each other? Why do one, the other or both?
The lilac and budburst protocols are very complementary. The lilac data will show how a genetically identical plant responds to large-scale climatic events and trends. The budburst data, representing the dominant landcover, is useful as a validation tool for satellite estimates of the growing season.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 117 - 09:27:31 ]
RE: [Rebecca/GLOBE] Could you explain how lilac and budburst data complement each other? Why do one, the other or both?
The budburst "native species" tell us specifically what is going on in a particular location. However, local plants are controlled by genetics so that even the same species can have quite different phenological responses in different places (i.e. a maple in Michigan will respond diferrently than a maple of the same species in Missouri). The cloned lilacs can give us a control for that, and they can give us a handle on the climatic influence on plant development. Mike and I have discussed this quite a bit as you will imagine. Both are important.

[ Ann/GLOBE - 118 - 09:29:35 ]
Why did you pick lilacs as opposed to another type of plant?

[ Tomislav/OS/VNazor/Virovitica/Croatia//HR - 119 - 09:30:35 ]
Hello to all from NE part of Croatia, Europe. My question about budburst is about affecting of orientation of site, because on southern side there is more light and less cold northern winds.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 120 - 09:32:23 ]
RE: [Ann/GLOBE] Why did you pick lilacs as opposed to another type of plant?
I suppose I could say "because it was there", but I suspect that it was easier to persuade a person to plant a lilac than a stinkweed or a thistle. Really, these plants were selected for a variety of reasons, as they were easy to observe, hardy, had distinct pheno events, and had a wide range. They are also beautiful, which doesn't hurt in recruiting volunteer observers!

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 121 - 09:34:29 ]
Microsite climate variation can have huge effects on budburst. In your scenario, I would guess that the southern site might have budburst one-two weeks earlier than the northern site. This is why in the protocol we suggest that you pick a budburst site with the same exposure as your atmospheric measurement site. Otherwise the two records might not make much sense when analyzed by myself or Mark.

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 122 - 09:34:51 ]
RE: [Tomislav/OS/VNazor/Virovitica/Croatia//HR] Hello to all from NE part of Croatia, Europe. My question about budburst is about affecting of orientation of site, because on southern side there is more light and less cold northern winds.
There would be an effect. South sides are warmer and somewhat earlier in the N. Hemisphere.

[ Ann/GLOBE - 123 - 09:36:36 ]
Our time is running out so I want to thank Mike and Mark for this very interesting chat. I certainly learned a lot. Could you please post information on how people can reach you if they have additional questions?

[ MarkSchwartz/UWMilwaukee - 124 - 09:37:33 ]
I can be reached at mds@uwm.edu I'd be happy to answer any further questions about the lilacs, or phenology!

[ MichaelWhite/UMT - 125 - 09:37:38 ]
RE: [Ann/GLOBE] Our time is running out so I want to thank Mike and Mark for this very interesting chat. I certainly learned a lot. Could you please post information on how people can reach you if they have additional questions?
I can be reached by email: mike@ntsg.umt.edu