Kid-friendly gardens are part of Alice Waters’s plan to create “edible schoolyards” for children. (Matt Dunn for The New York Times)Next month, some of the biggest stars of the culinary world will gather for the New York City Wine & Food Festival. Among the many great events is a star-studded panel called “Beyond Chicken Nuggets: How to Raise a Healthy Eater.”
Tickets are still available to see famed chef Alice Waters, Food Network star Rachael Ray and children’s food author Jessica Seinfeld, who will join me on Sunday, October 12 to talk about how parents can improve the quality of food their children eat. Pediatrician Harvey Karp, author of the best-selling “Happiest Baby on the Block” and Penn State food researcher Leann Birch also will lend their expertise to the panel.
Among the topics to be discussed will be Ms. Waters’s efforts to create an “edible schoolyard,” in which schools create and sustain an organic garden that is integrated into the school’s curriculum and lunch program. This week, I spoke with Ms. Waters about her interest in the eating habits of American children.
Alice Waters in the garden. (Jamie Rose for The New York Times)
What’s wrong with the way children are eating today?
The fact that most kids aren’t eating at home with their families any more really means they are eating elsewhere. They are eating out there in fast food nation. I feel like what is happening is they’re not understanding anything about the choices they’re making about food.
They’re also learning a very troubling set of values at the same time they’re getting their hamburger or eating in the car. They’re learning that food should be fast, cheap and easy; it should be available 24 hours a day; and that resources are infinite. It’s a vary narrow view that we have of the most important activity of our lives.
Why do you think involving children in growing food and preparing it can make such a big difference for kids?
My solution is not to try to feed children in the same way that fast food nation does — which is to figure out a gimmick to get them to eat something. It’s to bring them into a whole relationship with food that’s connected to nature and our culture.
No other country thinks about food as just fueling up. It’s always connected to the seasons, to nature, to what’s growing, to celebrations with family and friends. It’s a kind of moment in the day when you collect your thoughts and stop to sit down and to eat. Food is considered precious and vital, and farmers are treasured. We’ve allowed ourselves to be completely indoctrinated into another way of thinking about food in this country.
So how do you change the “food as fuel” culture of the United States?
We need a program in the public school system, an everyday experience for kids that is nourishing, that brings them to the ideas of stewardship of the land, like the hands-on experience that the kids have at the school in Berkeley in the garden. They come there with their math class maybe and measure and weigh vegetables. They begin to learn about the compost heap, and about biodiversity, what’s ripe and what’s not ripe. It’s opening up these pathways through the mind.
Right now we are sanitizing food, packaging it, not wanting any smells that are strange or off. It’s causing kids to kind of close down. It’s not just that they are eating the hamburger and hot dog and shake. It’s just closing down their minds.
What effect does gardening at school have on children?
In Berkeley, we built the garden and a kitchen classroom. We’ve been working on it for 12 years. We’ve learned a lot from it. If kids grow it and cook it, they eat it. And we’re talking about kale and chard; we’re not talking about sweets. We’re talking about the connection these kids make with what they’re doing, and how they’re building their self-esteem and how enjoyable it is to come back to nature.
What can parents do to change the relationship children have with food at school?
It takes teachers to breath life into it. It takes a revolution in the cafeteria to make it happen. What parents can do is go into the schools and see what’s going on in cafeterias. They can write to superintendents and encourage teachers in schools to engage the children in these hands-on ways.
Create a garden, bring children to farms for field trips. I think it’s important that parents and teachers get together to do one or two things they can accomplish well — a teaching garden, connecting with farms nearby, weave food into the curriculum. Buy foods from nearby farms and have that food served in the cafeteria.
Why do you think the edible schoolyard has been such a success in Berkeley?
Children are hungry for food, but they are also hungry for care. This food comes with care. That’s the magic of it.
Ms. Waters and the rest of the “Beyond Chicken Nuggets” panel will be speaking from noon to 1:30 p.m. on Sunday, Oct. 12 at the HIRO Ballroom, 88 Ninth Avenue (Between 16thand 17th Streets), New York City. Tickets are $35, and proceeds will benefit hunger relief programs in New York. To purchase tickets, click here, or call 866.969.2933.
Healthy living doesn't happen at the doctor's office. The road to better health is paved with the small decisions we make every day. It's about the choices we make when we buy groceries, drive our cars and hang out with our kids. Join columnist Tara Parker-Pope as she sifts through medical research and expert opinions for practical advice to help readers take control of their health and live well every day. You can reach Ms. Parker-Pope at 
The easiest and most pleasurable way to eat well is to cook. Recipes for Health offers recipes with an eye towards empowering you to cook healthy meals every day. 
From 1 to 25 of 83 Comments
Alice Waters is my hero. I love her positive and delicious approach to reversing the trends of fast food and food produced far away.
Of course, gardens don’t always inspire kids to eat what comes out of a garden. I just spent the weekend with my nephew, a picky eater who fears pretty much all vegetables, but loves working in his family’s vegetable garden. It is probably instilling in him a respect for food, and someday he’ll probably come around.
Debs
— Deborah GardnerSeattle Local Food
Alice Waters’ philosophy is the antidote to gluttony: sharing, stewardship, community, gratitude, mindfulness.
God/dess bless her.
— ToniHow are schools supposed to create this relationship between kids and food when parents, society and government are pushing the fast food culture? How does this fit into an education system wedded to improving test scores? And perhaps most importantly, can Ms. Waters fund school food and gardening programs in all 100,000 of our schools just as her Foundation did in Berkeley? If not - where do the funds come from for training staff and teachers, developing gardens, buying the needed foodservice equipment to prepare foods from scratch, etc? Will the panel of ‘experts’ on Oct. 12th address the critical funding issues?
— Carl JonesFROM TPP — Of course these are big issues. But the reality is that every school spends money on cafeteria food. The goal is to redirect these budgets to better quality food. The panel during the food festival is aimed at giving practical advice to parents, not solving the larger policy concerns you raise. I also believe you can involve local farmers and food suppliers in the process with little or no added cost. Teachers love this program and are always looking for creative ways to teach, so I don’t think you’d have a hard time getting teachers on board. I’d love to hear from teachers out there how you feel.
What does Alice Waters feed her kids? Probably what Rachel Ray feeds hers.
FROM TPP — Why so snarky? Are you saying people who don’t have kids can’t care about them? We all have a stake in childhood health, whether we have children or not. And several readers below have lots more good information about Alice Waters and her food priorities for her own daughter.
— AWhat does Alice waters feed her kids? Well, she went to Yale to transform her daughter’s Berkeley College dining hall in to an experiment offering local, seasonal & organic foods 3 meals a day. That’s what she feeds her kids! The raw cauliflower salad bar got a bit tedious by mid March, but in general, it was excellent and got great response from everyone.
— annaInteresting that her advice to parents was to encourage (external to the family) professionals to address the food-as-fuel problem. Why not encourage parents to have gardens at home and involve the kids? Has education become too industrialized to trust to parents anymore?
We have kept a small garden since the kids were quite young. They’re quite aware of seasonality and value. They would not touch a zuccini (if only because the name sounded ‘icky’), but did because they’d seen it grow from a spout to a flower to a fruit. It earned at least a little respect. They still don’t “like” zuccini, but will eat it w/o complaints.
— MIchealEasier said than done. Most kids need some ral creative inspiration to grow an interest in healthy eating.
Gardening is a great activity, but not all children have the luxury of a full sized garden. And very young children cannot really get involved in heavy duty gardening.
Reading fun and creative children’s books aimed at getting kids interested in fruits and veggies is a great way to start them off.
Forget the focus on muppets, super heroes and crazy cartoon characters shaped like sponges. Try healthy themed character brands. The Lunchbox Bunch, Sesame Street and even a few Disney brands are focusing more on health entertainment for young kids.
Kathy, creator of The Lunchbox Bunch brand
— KathyPatalskyhttp://www.lunchboxbunch.com
Not snarky - I’m not questioning whether either of these folks care about kids’ health. However, I find it arrogant on some level for someone to critique lifestyles that they may know little about (especially in this column for the second time). It reminds me of the American College of Pediatricians saying that kids shouldn’t watch TV at all and people requesting the Pediatricians to come over and keep an eye on their kids while they get something else done. Hey- you don’t see me telling Ms. Waters how to run a restaurant.
— ACarl, There are lots of resources to start school gardens, Alice Water Foundation can inspire without having to fund everyone. I have helped set up several school gardens in the Seattle area over the last 20 years, and all are still running through a combination of parent support, community volunteers, small amounts of staff time from the schools, grants from community organizations and foundations, and donations from stores. A non-profit in Seattle helps train teachers and provide curriculum to start and run garden programs. The State of Washington has recently started a program and allocated funds to start school gardens and help local farmers sell food to school cafeterias.
— BeddiggerGood school programs can change kids thinking even if their parents are unenlightened. Maybe your kids have a chance to be more positive then you are.
Beddigger
Why is Jerry Seinfeld’s wife–whom many think stole the idea for her book–appearing? This is so wrong. At least you could have asked both book authors, but instead, you went with the socialite.
— Rachel CohenWhen I was 10 years old, my mother bought me Alice Waters’ recipe book, “Fanny at Chez Panisse.” The story detailed her daughter Fanny’s life at the restaurant and the book included an assortment of kid-friendly recipes. What was good about this book was it didn’t dumb down cooking to a Kraft-level art of throwing various mixes of processed food together, but taught kids how to cook the basics from natural ingredients. I loved when my mother set me free to make biscuits for strawberry shortcake. This approach to including kids in the kitchen most certainly worked with me, when I went to college I was far better equipped than my friends with their boxes of Mac’n Cheez. I like that here she is taking it a step further and bringing them into the garden.
— Jessica B DI live in Brooklyn and have a 3 year old son so am just starting to consider what I am going to do about schools. If there was a school in NYC that was committed to an edible schoolyard program that would be my number one choice. With all the emphasis on test scores and teaching methods, I agree with Alice Waters that eating is one of the most important parts of our lives and the school system is completely ignoring this. My husband grew up in France where, of course, kids get over an hour off at noon to go eat lunch with their parents, who also get a long midday break. But for various reasons he couldn’t make the long trek home for lunch so he ate in the school cafeteria, which was featured on the national French news one evening as the best in the nation. Can anyone imagine that happening here? A news broadcast celebrating the quality of public school lunches? (Okay this is also the country where I once watched a newscast about the uproar in Parisian soup kitchens that had run out of camembert… but still, why not aim high?)
I’ve spent the past 4 years being so careful about what I ate during pregnancy and what my son eats while he’s growing and it causes me great distress to have no choice but to throw him into the horrible school cafeteria world. I’m planning to pack him a homemade lunch every day, and am dreading the day when he tells me he wants to eat the cafeteria food that all his friends are eating. Alice, please help us make an edible schoolyard in New York!
— ChristyTo “A” post #8:
Honestly, you don’t *have* to listen to anything Ms. Waters says about how you should feed your kids, but I, for one, am very glad that she’s trying to think of AND implement new ideas on how good quality food can come to be appreciated by kids.
The Berkeley College dining hall was the envy of most of us in the other colleges and they had to put quotas on how many non-Berkeley students could come there to eat. However, after the first year of the experiment, they started to expand it to other colleges, so we were able to have at least one sustainable option at least once a week….they may have made even more progress since I graduated from Yale.
Finally, again, you don’t have to listen to or appreciate whatever your doctor says either. But don’t you think it’s the doctor’s job to give you the best advice as to what has been shown by studies to have the most positive health outcomes for you or your children? Would you rather your doctor said, “Well, I know you’re not going to listen to me anyway, so let them watch all the TV they want and, while you’re at it, isn’t it easier to put your kids on an all-ice cream diet than try to gradually have them appreciate vegetables?”
— SLI would think the answer to what Alice Waters “feeds her kids” is found in her cookbooks, Fanny at Chez Panisse (semi-fictional storybook cookbook starring her daughter Fanny) and her new one, The Art of Simple Food (which includes tips about packing lunches and weeknight meals).
Answer? Polenta, pasta with cherry tomatoes, carrot salad, fruit desserts, homemade pizza, fish, risotto, lettuce salad.
These are simple recipes with fresh ingredients, and most of them are fast to prepare.
— MeelsFifty-five years ago at my Primary School in Northern England we grew beans and peas and carrots and strawberries and raspberries in the schoolyard. Nasturtiums too. It was, I suppose, an off-shoot of the “Victory Gardens” of the war.
That could and should have continued indefinitely but I guess it didn’t, and there is no good reason why it shouldn’t be done everywhere. It’s fun, it’s very educational to see how things grow, and it provides good food.
— MarkAlthough I think it’s a great idea to involve and invest kids in the cycle of farm to table, the school year in most parts of the country, is (by design) the inverse of the agricultural year.
— CariceIt’s much tougher to garden in December in Minneapolis than it is in Berkeley.
Do we really believe food is fuel? I disagree. If people viewed food as fuel to continue living they wouldn’t continue to eat fast food. We don’t throw dirt into cars and expect them to perform; why would a people viewing food as fuel so willingly eat fast food to power up? The problem isn’t food as fuel (which it is), it’s the have to have everything immediately attitude that many Americans possess.
I wholly support the edible school yard projects and have assisted in planting at an elementary school near my university. At the very least it will show children that food doesn’t just arrive in a neat paper wrapper next to a toy.
— M.B.Carise - Thank you for being the only one to point that out! I I have seen no responses on how to overcome that basic problem.
To the Brooklyn mom - Would you be willing to work the school garden over the summer with your children so there would be at least some spinach and winter squash for the kids to see?
Then of course, there’s the cost. It’s tough to convince people who are struggling to pay school taxes to raise them.
— franI don’t want to be rude, but Rachael Ray has no business being on a panel with Alice Waters. Ray’s cooking shows have ALWAYS been about cutting corners, buying pre-chopped vegetables, frozen vegetables, and pre-packaged food to speed up various processes. She is a proponent of exactly the type of food culture that Waters is saying we need to change.
Are Ray’s recipes a step up from fast food? Of course they are, but they’re stuck in the same fast/cheap/easy/gimmicky mindset that Waters is talking about.
FROM TPP — The goal of this panel is to give parents a wide range of information and options. Come to the panel discussion and ask Alice how she feels about being on a panel with Rachael. After all, Alice Waters herself agreed to do it. The goal here is to look at a variety of different approaches for raising the quality of the food children eat. Rachael is an impressive advocate for involving kids in food preparation and that is consistent with what Alice is also trying to encourage.
— JamesIt’s so easy to start, with seeds in a pot. I fyou have a window sill, a porch, (mine are on the lanai) there’s nothing like getting your salad and vegetables from your own garden. And they taste so good!
— julie“No other country thinks about food as just fueling up. It’s always connected to the seasons, to nature, to what’s growing, to celebrations with family and friends.”
I’m doing research on dietary practice in Guatemala, where I hear nutritionists compare their patients’ bodies to cars every day. They say things like, “Think of your body like a car. If you pack it too full, it will have to work harder and it will become run down quicker.” I agree with Alice Waters’ work in principle, but she is incorrect in her idea that US citizens are unique in drawing comparisons between food and fuel. (Just think about what the use of the dietary staple corn for fuel throughout Latin America has done for this connection!). Of course I would argue that despite these widespread comparisons between food and fuel in the international nutrition world, dietary practice is never reduced (for anyone — urban or rural alike) to just fueling up; food, no matter how mechanized/industrialized is always still connected to seasons/nature/culture/family/friends.
— EmilyWell said # 10!! You have to go where the $$ and fame is I guess, not original ideas…. sigh
— annaThis is appearing on the same day my daughter asked me to pick her up from school for lunch because she can’t stand the smell of the industrial tacos being served in the cafeteria, so it’s fitting.
I admire Alice Waters. I used to wonder, why does everyone make such a big deal about her? But having read her writing over time, and recently, having seen her in a video, I realize that she’s incredibly artful in the way that she presents her ideas. She’s very thoughtful and measured and doesn’t use hyperbole (save me from chefs with catch phrases, thank you). It’s somewhat mesmerizing. And it all starts to make wonderful sense…
I think the idea of starting school gardens is wonderful. They don’t have to be year-round. A seasonal garden could be started in spring in Minneapolis with the harvest occuring in the fall. I am just now getting ripe tomatoes and raspberries and school has been in session for over a month.
— FrancoisI live in Lincoln, Nebraska, and recently my husband and I were looking to move elsewhere in town. But then I found out that we are in the district with the only edible schoolyard in the whole city and I stopped my house searching. My older son is 4, and I’m with Christy. I was dreading sending my well-eating son to school. I am getting involved with the program NOW so that I can be fully on board when he starts school.
We have our own small garden that our little sons help us with in every way and they are such great eaters! We go to the farmers’ markets on the weekends in the summer with them. They are getting connected with their food and where it comes from, and I think we are helping them form life-long habits.
I let them eat what other kids eat and they like it pretty well. It’s so salty or so sweet, that it’s irresistible at first. But they don’t beg for more. They love flavorful food that we make at home best of all. We had shrimp sauteed with yellow squash, garlic and lemon last night, with some fun-shaped pasta and Parmesan. They loved it.
— SueI think that parents who wish to see their kids grow up healthy and fit need to lead by example.
If we eat for convenience instead of for health, nutrition and pleasure, they will also.
Monkey See, Monkey Do
— DR