Nuggets top Suns in overtime

Billups comes up huge as Denver outlasts Phoenix

By Chris Tomasson, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published January 15, 2009 at 11:52 p.m.

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Photo by Dennis Schroeder / The Rocky

Nuggets forward Kenyon Martin puts up a shot over Phoenix forward Louis Amundson, a Monarch High School graduate, during the first quarter Thursday night at the Pepsi Center.

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Comments

January 16, 2009

1:39 a.m.

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jscarp writes:

I just do not know what to say about GK, he just has zero timing on game changing substitutions. It is maddening.
Birdman is playing great defense and Karl takes him out and the Suns clime right back in to it. JR is struggling in the beginning of the second half and there is LK sitting on the bench after playing a great first half taking the ball to the basket like a mad man and he sits. And again RB sits on the bench when we sure could have used his defense at any time during the game.
And last but not least Is GK just a wimpy coach that makes little suggestions to his players and hope they listen or will he ever grow a pair and demand they take the ball to the basket instead of dead end jump shooting which always turn into 4 or 6 point swings....I think he will never grow anything.
Get rid of Karl........I love the Nuggets players
Go Nuggets beat O-Town.
January 16, 2009

2:22 a.m.

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avsfan71085 writes:

Weird game, good win. But lucky with the no call at the end of regulation, either way, that was awesome and intense to watch.
January 16, 2009

3:41 a.m.

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lsider writes:

great and important win! maybe we'll have a petro sighting on saturday, i look forward to seeing how nene matches up with howard. i want to know what we finally ended up getting for trading jameer nelson, if anybody knows, please do tell. great play by k-mart tonight, that was an example of what he should be giving us for all that money he's making. i like the way we're playing as a team, nobody is griping about minutes and the pieces are fitting real well together. gk has done better this year so i'm hopeful. who'd have thought melo would miss 9 of the first 40 games and we'd be leading the division with 27 wins? it helps boozer has been out but still i'm pleasantly surprised. go nuggs 4ever.
January 16, 2009

5:46 a.m.

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ONEman writes:

"Both teams were somewhat tired," Karl said of the game's late stages. "There was a lot of heart and competition."

Not from you George. I say it again can Chauncey coach and play? That's what he's doing anyway. The technical came at a good time and fired up the team. That's the coaches job, not sukin on candy(try sugar free fatboy), shaking your head and giving the refs dirty looks, say something you panzi. As jscarp said Karl has no balls and merely suggests things to the team. This is becoming Chauncey's team more every game. He commands the respect of his teammates and let's his play speak for its self. That trade cannot be valued by money. Chauncey is a true competitor and a smart ball player.

Some idiot keeps asking me, " who could replace Karl." What a stupid question(especially with the huse list of canidates not to mention one already on staff, A.D., were already playing without Karl now, what difference would it make if we can his sorry azz? I honestly feel with a coach using his the size and hustle that's being wasted on the bench and properly managing a game. We could give the Lakers and Spurs a run for the money. But with Dumb George at the helm, we won't go past round 1 again. He get;s no respect not from players, refs, fans, opposing caoches not even Rocky.

Fire Karl, I'll buy season tickets or at least attend 70% of the games from here on out.
January 16, 2009

5:56 a.m.

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ONEman writes:

The K mart 3 pointer in ot was lucky as hell and not a very smart shot. We only beat them because they didn't shoot well in the 4th and ot. If Barbosa would have been on his game, we would've given the game away. Why are we makin it rain prayers so much? With a lead and time on the clock we're launchin B52 bombers from half court. K Mart that kind of poor shot selection lost us playoff games last year, only it was Camby taking em'. Now he's gone and your gonna assume the shooters roll with Melo out? No thanks, do what you do well take the ball to the hole and jam it home. High pick and roll is what we should be running more often than not.
January 16, 2009

6:10 a.m.

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ONEman writes:

The only person I dislike more than Karl is David Stern. Man the officials are terrible this year, terrible calls against us and for us, I don't like winning cheaply. The game should have ended on Grenat Hill free throws, while Cuban is a terd he was right to be upset about that call. It's nice to see the calls going our way for a change. But those cheap wins will come back to bite us in the playoffs. Are these clowns still fixing games or what? C'mon commissioner you need to address this problem pronto.
January 16, 2009

7:17 a.m.

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lynnie62 writes:

I'm a BIG Nuggets fan and don't care for Karl too much but would you guys please leave the insults and fat comments out? It really discredits a lot of good arguments for getting rid of Karl.
January 16, 2009

7:25 a.m.

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kmeissner writes:

I wish I would have seen the game last night. Sounds like a good win.

Is Balkman EVER going to play again? Defense wins championships! Put him in the game already!

GO NUGS! Beat Orlando tomorrow and show the rest of the league what you can do!
January 16, 2009

8:04 a.m.

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FRODO writes:

Wow, 27-13 and your still bashing GK. Lets see, Cleveland, Boston, Orlando and the Lakers are the only teams with better records. You really think the Nugs have better talent than those 4 teams and should have a better record? Cop a clue, best record after 40 games in Nuggets history you MORON's.
January 16, 2009

8:16 a.m.

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broncophanman writes:

talk about a savior! chauncey has single-handedly made the nuggets a legitimate contender.
January 16, 2009

8:31 a.m.

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ramAZ writes:

Save all the whining about the coach for a time when the team is NOT in first place.

Do you guys remember the 1990's? Do you remember winning 11 games in an entire season?

You change a coach mid-stream in a season and your team chemistry and philosophy changes dramatically.

Do you REALLY want to change the chemistry of a first place team?

Thank God Kronke has basketball people around him to help make decisions and does not cater to foolish whining on internet message boards.

Go Nugz.

I'll take George Karl and his FIRST PLACE Nuggets anyday.
January 16, 2009

8:37 a.m.

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ONEman writes:

C'mon Frodo anyone who knows anything about basketball and actually watches the games can see that Karl isn't a good coach.
If anyone deserves credit for our record it's...

broncophanman writes:

talk about a savior! >>>>>chauncey<<<<< has single-handedly made the nuggets a legitimate contender.

He has this team clicking and playing hard
on the floor and I see him more active on the bench then Karl.

If you don't think Chauncey has made this team 100% better then you don't know squat about the game anyway. If you do see it, good. But don't you dare try to give Karl credit for our record. If anything imagine what our record would be without him. As my man Jersey says. " we don't win because of Karl, we win inspite of him." You get a clue before you go calling people morons. The playoffs are a whole new season dummy.
January 16, 2009

8:41 a.m.

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kmeissner writes:

FRODO do you watch the games? The REAL fans can tell who is winning these games, and it's NOT GK. He BARELY coaches at all. No one is saying the Nugs would have a better record without GK. They are saying they'd be BETTER OFF WITHOUT HIM! CB is leading the team and it's showing.
January 16, 2009

8:48 a.m.

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ONEman writes:

Chemistry? we're are just barely developing a chemistry, remember at least 4 if not more of these wins have been sooooo lucky.
The last 2 cheap. And once again that chemistry is coming from CB. Man Karl should be paying him. Not only is Billups saving Georges job, but he's making him look good while George is snoozin on the side.
January 16, 2009

9:14 a.m.

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spokenwar writes:

Anytime you need a bad call by the referee to win you are in bad trouble. Denver's luck WILL run out. This crap will NOT wash at the end of the season, or in the playoffs.

Kudos to Linus for his play last night. It was refreshing to see a player in trouble with his shot listen to his coach and go to the basket.
January 16, 2009

9:19 a.m.

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gylizard1 writes:

One can only hope that the Knicks start playing awful so that they get panicky and get rid of D'Antoni..he would be a far better coach for Denver than Karl ever has or will be..hard to belive we were stupid enough to get rid of him int he first place. I wonder if Bobby Knight would ever consider coaching the pros? He is a first class jerk...but a great coach. I am more and more impressed with Dahnty Jones all the time..he takes it to the basket so hard...plays great defense..and if he ever gets his shot down..watch out for this young man! I also questioned why Anderson gets pulled in favor of K Mart when he was playing so great defensively..he blocks so many shots..and can make a free throw these days..K Mart has the worst free throw I have seen in ages. Please..Renaldo Balkman needs some playing time..he still is the only one who cuts hard to the basket like Najera used to and is a true defensive gem. K Mart was plum lucky to have made that 3 at the end of the game. Kleiza actually listened..and started taking the ball to the basket again instead of settling or the 3 ever time..there is hope! Chauncey Billups..you are GOD! Thank you Thank you Thank You!
January 16, 2009

9:25 a.m.

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forrest_viv writes:

The GK haters here are idiots, PERIOD.

ONEboy having a conversation w/ himself and has no clue, kmeissner just has no clue. Get over yourselves, go into coaching, and apply for the job. Geniuses like yourselves would win every game.
January 16, 2009

9:27 a.m.

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Cwillyrun1 writes:

Karl did alright last night.... and considering the Nuggets record, he's doing a good job coaching the team. Maybe some of you would rather have Paul Westhead or Bernie Bucketofstuff?

jscarp, I like "Birdman" but who's Karl going to sit, Nene or Martin? Those two had huge games. Nene is really stepping it up this year and K-Mart looks like the guy we thought we were getting when he signed here.

avsfan, Jones could've gotten a call against him........ on the other hand, the refs shouldn't have called Billups on Hill's three point play a few minutes earlier. I wish TNT had better coverage because the one replay from under the basket showed Billups barely touched the ball but didn't touch Hill. But, it's the way games go, some calls are missed, and some calls are ones the refs shouldn't make in the first place.

oneman, that 3 by Martin was with the 24 second clock running out. What a bunch of whiners here considering the Nuggets record and how well they're doing without Melo right now. None of us know anything about what Karl tells the team or how he coaches them....... so quit being crybabies and be happy the Nuggets are among the NBA's best teams!
January 16, 2009

9:33 a.m.

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Cwillyrun1 writes:

oneman, it's you that needs to get a clue. I know basketball....... been watching the Nuggets since the days of David Thompson, Bobby Jones and Dan Issel. You do know who they are, right?

Karl is doing a good job coaching. He made the right substitutions late in the game, rotating Jones, Carter and JR in and out in certain situations. And, he gets paid to coach....... some of the whiners here probably couldn't coach 7 year old girls on the court and they definitely wouldn't get paid to coach anyone.
January 16, 2009

9:35 a.m.

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kmeissner writes:

We're not saying we'd win every game Forrest Gump. We're saying GK isn't a real coach. Watch a few games before you come on talking about stuff you have no idea about. You are probably Kobe Karl, aren't you?
January 16, 2009

9:47 a.m.

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lynnie62 writes:

LOL I was just commenting last night about the dark years of the Nuggets when they only had 12 wins in a season. I remember Paul Westhead and Bernie Bucketofstaff. Bernie did more for the distruction of the Nugs than any 1 person in history! I'm in Nuggets heaven! They haven't been this good EVER and it reminds me of the old days starting with the David Thompson ara. Hell I loved the Nugs when they played with a red white and blue basketball. I've suffered thru the worst years. I'm just a happy camper we are a good team again.
January 16, 2009

10:18 a.m.

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kmeissner writes:

lynnie62 yeah those years it was painful to be a fan. It was awesome that they beat the Bulls that year though. I'll never forget that game. It's nice to have a contender again. Hopefully they can make it out of the first round this year though!

GO NUGS!
January 16, 2009

10:58 a.m.

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lynnie62 writes:

I was at that game! We got really good tickets for dirt cheap that year but it stunk to be a fan. I would watch the 1st quarter of games then just be sick and change the stations. I love the fact that all the games are on TV now. I used to listen to them on KOA before the Rockies came to town. Now I can't get them on the radio. We dont get 1510 up North. I miss them being on 950.
January 16, 2009

11:02 a.m.

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lynnie62 writes:

Oh, by the way, Larry Brown was my fav Nugs coach EVER! Back then I thought he was so HOT. Sorry guys for the girl moment. I did love Doug too. He was so... colorful. He would never make it now. They don't talk to the players in the same way Doug did. I loved it one day when they were honoring Dan Issel for something and asked Doug about him. His comments had something to do with "I don't know why they would honor him, he was nothing but a big stiff". LOL oh the days...

And on Chauncy. I can't remember a point gaurd like him since FAT!
January 16, 2009

11:04 a.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

Oneman

Thanks for the response on the other thread. I also replied to that one.

For the others I asked Jersey and OneMan(as he referred to as the idiot asking questions above) who they would choose to replace Karl and be able to continue on. Jersey mentioned Theus and AD and after banter back and forth OneMan mentioned AD, Avery and a few others. I truly think that Avery could come in here without too much transition and continue on. The others not so much. Not that they are not good coaches, just not at this juncture...... I agree with the critics and reasonings behind the Karl bashing. I just cant get my hands on how any GM or owner risk a downturn in a great record so far by having a coaching change in the Middle or End of January based on a (27-13) record and 5th best in the NBA. I wonder how many GMs and owners would make this proposed move? Try using a business case comprised of the above comments and the ones yesterday to make your sales pitch?
January 16, 2009

11:18 a.m.

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Cwillyrun1 writes:

lynnie, those were the lean years, weren't they? I was at that Denver-Chicago game also, when the Bulls had their record setting number of wins, and Denver was up by something like 32 and Jordan led them back. But Mahmoud Abdul-Rauf had a huge game and helped Denver win. They were actually decent that year...... in McDyess' rookie season and with Mutombo. I can still see McDyess grabbing the ball with one hand a few feet off the front of the rim and with his arm straight out and his head above the rim, slam it home over Rodman. The look on Rodman's face was priceless.

You aren't kidding about Bernie either...... he ruined the team for years and I couldn't believe he ever got another head coaching job after that. He kept Dale Ellis and not Mutombo? The worst thing that ever happened to the Nugs was him.

LOL........ no problem on the "girl moment" :)
January 16, 2009

11:34 a.m.

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lynnie62 writes:

How bout the drafting Mark Mason and passing on Stacy Augman? SHEESH! I did love the Mutombo/McDyess/Ellis combo. Too bad injuries broke that up and not keeping DM.

Some of my favs of all time were Fat, English, Nat, Dunn. I laugh every time I see Bill Hanzlick on TV. He's a dork and he played like one.
January 16, 2009

12:25 p.m.

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Cwillyrun1 writes:

I know, I didn't get some of the draft decisions made back then. I thought for awhile there the Nugs were becoming the new version of the Cadavers from the early 80's. LaPhonso Ellis was a "bad" dude, and he had so much potential until his knees ruined it. He was a player easy to cheer for..... nice guy!

You are so right about Hanzlik. Those rainbow uniforms and him getting up in Ralph Sampson's chest when they played Houston...... it was hilarious but he did a good job at it.
January 16, 2009

12:45 p.m.

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calvinbrodus writes:

the karl defenders on here are killing me. i'm getting the impression that because we are winning, you assume he is a good coach. i haven't heard any other reasons why he is a good coach. well, if we still had ivy, we would be .500 at best, if not a losing team. karl should send chauncey a muffin basket and a portion of his salary everyday. chauncey has turned this team around completely. our success is truly in spite of karl. did you know in college that karl’s nickname was “kamikaze karl” because he played so crazy and energetically. what happened to that dude? sometimes i can't even tell if karl is conscious when he’s sitting lifeless on the sidelines during the games. i don’t know if we should change coaches now in the middle of the season. however, it would be flat out foolish to keep karl after this season and not make a move for avery. the little general could turn this team into a beast. the chemistry between he and chauncey could be magical. both are point guards and no nonsense leaders. i’m keeping hope alive that karl isn’t anywhere our near bench next year. and i believe his contract expires after this season, so it could be a reality.
January 16, 2009

12:47 p.m.

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stewie_08 writes:

I'm kind of neutral on George, but if you read the thread here, you'd think the public perception was to get rid of him. In truth, it's the same three or four commentors (some of them will call themselves 'bloggers' but they don't realize they are not paid by the site and are merely leaving comments) who are bashing him. Perhaps they were snubbed for an autograph at some point.

And anyone who knows hoops knows most the coaching is done in the gym. I'd bet dimes to dollars none of those three or four people have ever been to a practice or have any clue what George teaches the team.
January 16, 2009

1:32 p.m.

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jbowen43 writes:

Was anybody but me totally disgusted with the ESPN commentators? You would think that there was only one call in the game that the officials got wrong and that was the determining factor. Amare travels nearly every time he puts the ball on the floor but no one noticed. Nuggets were being mugged on layups but no one notices. Hill gets tripped and you would think we had a repeat of 9/11.
January 16, 2009

2:03 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

jbowen

I had the sound turned down and trying to multitask.......... heard that they were not good here at work today. Glad I was forced to turn down the sound it sounds like :-)
January 16, 2009

2:21 p.m.

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lynnie62 writes:

I haven't watched the whole game yet, I have it on the DVR for tonight. I'm old, get to work early and can only stay up that late on the nights I have roller derby practice.

Some people complain about Scott but I like the homers calling the games. Besides that, Scott makes me laugh.
January 16, 2009

2:34 p.m.

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kmeissner writes:

lynnie I agree. Scott makes me laugh as well. Dan is kind of a lame announcer though. Lexus drive of the game candidate!!!

thought Larry Brown was hot, huh? That just made my day. Hilarious! :)

I forgot to DVR the game last night! Talk about a homer moment.
January 16, 2009

2:50 p.m.

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lynnie62 writes:

Well both of them are better then Hanz. I love Hanz but man he's a dork. He used to get so excited I thought he prolly had to change at 1/2 time.

Yeah back in the day, Larry Brown was HOT. Of course that was the ABA and the coaches didn't have to wear stuffy suits. He dressed all hip and cool. I was a teenager and had a mad crush on him. That was back before Rocky when we had that little guy pulling a wagon as the mascot. I think Rocky is a lot better. There were times in the 90's that he was the best athlete on the floor.
January 16, 2009

2:58 p.m.

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Jonnbear writes:

The record is great, however, it doesn't make George Karl a great head coach. He makes questionable moves at questionable times. I'll definitely hold off on crowning Karl until we get out of the first round. He has a history of having good squads play below their potential (Seattle in 1994 and than again in Milwaukee early 2000s) We are getting lucky victories (the last two calls at the end of the game could have gone either way and luckily they went ours). Outside of AC, the players don't listen to him and that's why he plays AC so much. And last night when Carter was on the floor, the Nuggets were outscored by 13. Karl's losing grasp of this team, even Chauncey and him aren't seeing eye-to-eye.
January 16, 2009

2:59 p.m.

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kmeissner writes:

Ok I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on Larry Brown then I guess. ha

Agreed that Hanz is a spaz. Man he gets excited about the Nugs though!

Also I think Rocky is the best mascot in professional sports, period. I was at the Detroit game last week and was upset that he was on the roof waiting for All-Star votes. Luckily he came in (in a dramatic fashion) and pumped up the crowd. Tough loss at the end though!

Have fun watching your taped Nugs game from last night. Maybe they'll show a repeat on Altitude so I can catch it. From what I've read, it's an instant classic.
January 16, 2009

3:32 p.m.

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Cwillyrun1 writes:

The conclusion I have, from the few that are bagging on Karl, is that because he doesn't yell a lot, either at his players or the refs, he's not a good coach. Thanks for clarifying that.

I read something about AI and Billups. AI competed for shots with Melo, Billups complements Melo. Billups brings a winning attitude as a teammate, AI just brought attitude. Billups is a true (and effective) point guard, AI is a shooting guard in a point guard's body. Billups can play great defense, AI used to years ago in Philly but not anymore. I remember when the Nuggets acquired AI....... Karl was unhappy Miller got traded because he was a true point guard that could run the offense Karl employs. AI couldn't, but we can undoubtedly see Billups is able to. I can't believe I even have to point this out.

I also read comments about Avery. If he was so good as a coach, why isn't he a coach any longer? D'Antoni was mentioned too. When did the Suns do anything but lose in the playoffs, like Denver, but with more talent on the court in years past?
January 16, 2009

3:36 p.m.

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stewie_08 writes:

Cwillyrun1, refreshing to hear someone with proper perspective. Good post.
January 16, 2009

3:49 p.m.

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jersey writes:

First and foremost we got the win and was damn lucky to get it. JR definitely stuck his leg out causing Grant to trip attempting the game winning shot in regulation. Make no bones about it a call would have been justified and I would not have had a beef if it was. Now for all the "Clueless" supporters I say this. Having been in plenty of huddles myself, not implying at the pro level which is irrealevant, during the time out leading to the opposition inbounding the ball with the score tied, you make absolutely clear to your players what to do given the situation, especially with 17 seconds left and the ball in their court. If they make the shot or miss the shot call an immediate time out to not only save the precious few seconds, in this case 2 which is a lifetime in the NBA to get off a decent shot, but more importantly to have the ball advanced to your end of the court to increase your odds of that shot having a chance. That is a given! JR gets the strip (sic) from Grant and forced up a 65 footer in desperation instead of calling the previously mentioned time out. Hell, that shot had about as much a chance of going in as a blizzard crippling Honolulu! I would be more inclined not to blame "Clueless" if this happened in a HS game or the like. My question has to be were the players ever told, especially being pros and not proned to being rattled, like HS kids sometimes are? JR gets the ball and immediately acts as if the time out seed had never been planted. Now did he or did he not for all who saw the game? It's your "Watch" GK and your players actions are an extention of your teachings be it fair or unfair. It's the nature of the beast! It was encouraging to not see an opening collapse starting the 3rd quarter like the previous 3 games even though it ended in a tie. Just as encouraging was the return to form of JR and Kleiza who both did a tremendous job. Kmart's funky looking 3 pointer was much needed but as usual I cringe whenever he launches one. In the boxscore it was a Picaso! Birdman and Chauncey? What can you say. No chance last night without either one of them. We got away with grand theft larceny at the end of regulation last night which I always say will all equal out during the marathon length of the season. It was just our turn!
January 16, 2009

3:52 p.m.

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jersey writes:

RE: My 3:49 post? WHEW!!!!
January 16, 2009

3:59 p.m.

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COLibertarian writes:

Cwilly

I think Avery is a good coach and will be a good coach. He will not be out of coaching for long. Where I like him is his intensity and push for defense. Wouldnt you take a break CWilly if you had just spent the past few years dealing with Cuban?????

I actually see him a fit for a team like Detroit more than Denver.

D'Antoni? No way. Not a bad coach, but defense wins titles..... and he is not a defensive coach....

Again what GM and or owner would fire the coach of the 5th best team in the NBA in the middle of the season?
January 16, 2009

4:30 p.m.

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Cwillyrun1 writes:

True, COLibertarian. Avery is a good coach, I don't doubt that and I'd take a break too after Cuban and all that. I don't agree with the post by calvin that Avery would be better than Karl for the Nuggets.

Thanks Stewie. I appreciate your comments.
January 16, 2009

4:50 p.m.

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lynnie62 writes:

I was at the detroit game too. Great game, bad ending. They should have won that game but I saw it slipping away...
January 16, 2009

5:04 p.m.

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stewie_08 writes:

Jersey, good in depth analysis, but it was Dahntay Jones who got the ball and heaved up the 65-footer. Not JR.
January 16, 2009

5:14 p.m.

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jersey writes:

Stewie: Thanks and you're absolutely correct in it not being JR. My bad. Same course different horse!

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Home › Sports › Denver Nuggets

Nuggets top Suns in overtime

Billups comes up huge as Denver outlasts Phoenix

By Chris Tomasson, Rocky Mountain News (Contact)

Published January 15, 2009 at 11:52 p.m.

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