Reader comments: Some BYU fans at crossroads after 3-loss season
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Utah typically reserves their smack for true greatness which was achieved this season.
I incidentally am a fan of neither school as I live in St George and cheer for the Rebels, just an fyi.
It was hilarious and ironic all at the same time, Cougar fans got a season full of munching on humble pie, it was nice to not hear from them and I am not even in the rivalry.
Utes have proved their dominance and particularly in basketball and football have shown the ability to win "big" games which BYU is very adept at not doing, bottom line.
BYU/Notre Dame are the 1980's style Cadillac. Utah/Florida are the fast, new Ferrari.
The Utah/Florida coaches turned down the BYU/Notre Dame/BYU jobs (directly refuting your statement that "there isn't a coach in the MWC who would take Utah's recruiting situation over BYU's.")
BYU/Notre Dame have large fan bases, but they are based largely on religious affiliation.
This is not to say BYU/Notre Dame do not have proud traditions. They do. And they may both rise again to perform well against ranked teams. But it is hard to deny that Utah/Florida have out-raced BYU/Notre Dame on the national stage during this century.
Besides that run, byu is average at best.
As Harmon wrote on Nov 23, byu is 1-21 against ranked teams over the past few years.
The is just horrible.
Combine that with the bowl record and byu's fans perception of national dominance begins and ends at the Utah County line.
The fact is Utah and Boise State have all the buzz amongst non-bcs programs. College football experts have claimed that Utah is the most talented non-bcs program in the country.
Anyone who thinks Utah is taking a back seat to byu should have their heads examined. Preferably by an expert outside of Utah County.
BYU will lick their wounds. 10-3 is good, but everyone involved in the program or with knowledge of the program knows BYU underperformed in the 3 losses. That doesn't mean they would have beaten TCU (probably not) or Utah (should have been close at the end) but they certainly could and should have beat Arizona. BYU appeared sour following the Wyoming game and its probably an achievement they won some of those other games.
BYU is still top dog, but Utah every now and again will have a good run (as they've demonstrated). Bronco should learn from what Kyle's done this year (as Kyle has watched Bronco).
One thing is for sure, we're in a golden age for BYU-UTAH football.
If Utah is at the top of the heap, the other teams in the league will consider them the standard, and as far as I currently know, most teams in the MWC desire to knock of BYU, and get up for that game more than any other.
TCU focused for one year on that game, and they proved themselves. Utah played great, but luckily for four missed field goals (TCU and Alabama) and some terrible late game coaching (Oregon State and New Mexico), their season was pretty close to mediocre. I commend them on their season, but they clearly are not at the top, at least in terms of longevity.
They are still our little brother.
P.S. I am intelligent.
Dick Harmon, do you even know what "apologist" means? Here's a clue--it does NOT mean "jerk."
REAL True-Blue Cougars cheered FOR Utah vs. Alabama and are happy to see the Utes win, whenever they're NOT playing BYU. Hey, who needs yet another 3-8 cupcake to walk over every November? What good was it ever to beat the Utes during their pathetic years? It was just more of the same "weak-conference" nonsense.
If you're BYU, you WANT the Utes to be good. When you lose to them, it's no tragedy--at least after a week or so of mourning. :) And when you beat them, IT MEANS SOMETHING. If you're Utah, you want BYU to be quality, for the exact same reason.
Memo to Dick Harmon: THAT'S WHAT A "BYU APOLOGIST" REALLY SAYS. May I recommend the Webster's Dictionary at Barnes and Noble, currently listed at $6.50?
Will you see the team or very many "BYU fans" actually doing that? Don't bet your life on it.
Everyone was so excited because this was going to be the year when you guys finally win three bowls in a row for the first time in school history!
Can you say 8 in a row?
How about that great record over the past few years?
Don't forget the more important record of 1-21 versus ranked teams. Compare that to Utah's record against ranked teams for this year alone: 4-0.
Face the music BYU fans: Your glory ended before your current team was even born!
One more point: The defensive line is still open. Send Max to the parade so he can throw a few to Kreuger before he leaves.
KWitt finished this year with Urban's final recruiting class... he took over a 12-0 team and after losing 27-0 to UNLV last year he came back and had a year as good as BYU's 1984 team.
A lot of talk lately has been about Kwitt vs. Bronco. To me 2009 is the year Bronco can catch up. Bronco took over a team that was 4-8 and had 3 straight losing seasons and had about 10 players get expelled. Kwitt took over a team that was 12-0. This is the year we will see Bronco have his full recruiting time and Kwitt will have all the Urban players gone and be on his own.
Right now Kwitt is in the lead, we will see what happens the next few years. Kwitt is loading up on JC players so lets see how it plays out in 2009.
That is laughable. Collie is the only skill player who would see the field at Utah.
Byu's defensive backfield were laughable.
pretty sure that works there.
pretty sure byu fans are whiney babies.
pretty sure they sucked this year too.
The success that Utah is having this decade will continue to pay rich dividends for years to come in the form of both cash resources and in recruiting.
I personally believe Utah only deserves to be ranked 4th or 5th this year. But they are light years ahead of the Y. Utah will continue to break the top ten and the Y will continue to be on the outside looking in.
Utah escaped with victories at home in multiple games, aided by numerous mistakes from the opposition and clutch play from a senior quarterback.
Will luck continue to be on the Utes side next season when all of the important games are on the road?
Will they be able to play above their heads when they aren't riding the wave of being undefeated?
How will they respond after a loss when everybody will be gunning for them?
There will be no leadership from a senior quarterback next season. Kruger was probably the best DE for the Utes since Luther Elliss. The Utes have never had a corner with the size and skill of Sean Smith.
I also know lots of BYU fans. Most have been excited about Utah's success this year, especially against Alabama. The others are tolerant. Most read in the "Church News" stories of LDS Utah players doing good things in New Orleans. Most liked that.
Who are all these other people? Where are they? The only place they show up is on these comment boards--read by, what, .0001% of fans?
What's up with people like Mr. Garrick who can't even respond to other BYU folks without taking swipes at Utah athletics? Any objective person knows some of Garrick's comments are un-true, but Mr. Harmon presents them as "gospel."
Speaking of the gospel, while I know it won't happen, I'm not sure Mr. Spence doesn't have a good idea. BYU loves its image, almost more than anything. What a boost to that image if it started treating its arch-rival like Jesus might, if He cared at all about football.
1. BYU simply has fallen on their face in "big" games. Regardless of historical conference superiority, they simply cannot win the big games and Utah often has - particularly lately. BYU simply does not beat the really good teams. Sure you can point to a few "Miami" type wins but in general their top-25, on the road bcs, and bowl record is actually pathetic.
2. BYU DOES NOT have a good recruiting situation. Their recruiting base is probably 90-95% LDS and they have lost the TOP LDS recruits for several years now. They actually have an extremely limited and difficult recruiting situation. It is the sole reason they are lacking in speed and athleticism. I actually think BYU's success is due to overachieving considering the recruiting restrictions they have. Anyone who thinks an LDS all-star team should compete nationally is drowning in the kool-aid.
3. Both BYU and Utah have nationally respected graduate programs. But BYU's undergraduate program is considered mediocre largely because a high percentage of students either do not get their degree (marriage factory problem) or take an unusually long time (mission reality).
The way the system is set up now a BCS win is worth about 5-10 MWC championships.
You get zero national cred if you win a MWC championship. Although the MWC is getting much better, but that doesn't matter, remember it's all about perception in college football. And MWC is perceived as weak regarless of the truth.
Question One. How much national media discussion went on about BYUs seasons the last two years?
Question Two. How much did the national media discuss Utah at the end of this year?
Answer to question one is little to none. Answer to question two is as much as any other team including Florida.
I do have one thing to say to my fellow Cougs who cheered for Utah in the Sugar Bowl: you will rue the day Utah won since they recruit from our same base and got huge exposure in that win. Sure, the LDS church is 4 times bigger than it was in 1984, but is our team getting 4 times the quality in recruiting?? I think NOT!!
Please, it's just a game. Congratulations Utah! Good job beating Alabama. BYU "only" went 10-3 this year. Life goes on.
BYU should be setting its sights on being better consistently against non-MWC (i.e., BCS) teams. Same with Utah (obviously Utah succeeded this year in doing this). That's the yardstick all non-BCS schools should measure against.
The constant comparison to UofU is a trap set by the little brother mentality of the Utah fans. They've been comparing UofU to BYU for decades so now they expect us to measure our team against theirs. Don't do it. It's like comparing apples to oranges.
The whole BYU-UofU rivalry took a big turn for the worse with Urban Meyer's antics, and I hope it can regain some of its fun and lose the bitter elements.
That is horrible. It is almost as bad as BYU's basketball record of not winning a Tournament Game in almost 20 years.
In fact the whole MWC along with Boise et al are grateful to Utah for busting the BCS once again and paving the way to an ultimate NCAA D-1 playoff in a few years. Using the old formula-what is good for you is also good for us.
Thank you BJ and Smith and Krueger! An amazing year and a great run. Which will set the stage for many Ute-Cougar showdowns for years to come.
Always looked forward to the day when both BYU and Utah were perennially in the Top Ten and brought fame and glory to the entire state along with the MWC. And this is by far the closest we have ever come to that dream.
And don't let anyone fool you-there are scores of teams across America that would kill for a 10-3 season.
Great season Utes and Cougs!
First, over the past 40 years BYU has won plenty of big time games...as big as Utah this decade. Since I'm short space I'll just use the Miami win in 1990 as an example...Miami was ranked #1 and the defending national champs when they lost in Provo. Yes, that was a long time ago, but easily within the last 40 years.
Next, BYU and Utah do not have the same recruiting base. Yes, they both recruit in Utah, California and other places in the west. But, BYU has a national fan base that Utah does not. BYU also has the draw, and drawback, of being affiliated with the LDS Church. Utah doesn't.
That difference alone makes a big difference in recruiting. Although the schools go head-to-head on some players, the recruiting overlap isn't big.
The real recruiting question for BYU is whether the schools is getting enough LDS players who are good enough to play at BCS schools. There are some of this year's team who fit into that category (mostly on offense), but BYU does not have enough BCS caliber players on defense right now.
No one outside of the MWC footprint cares about the schools in the MWC. Period.
I've lived on the east coast for 15 years and BYU has a MUCH MUCH MUCH better reputation out here both in athletics and academics. It's not even close. You can scream and yell all you want or make up facts and say negative things about BYU, but the reality is what it is. When I tell people I went to BYU those who have heard of it (which many people haven't) say, "that's a good school." UofU grads don't get that response. I've seen it over and over again.
No one out here really cares about the Sugar Bowl this year. They may know about it, but they don't care. Just ask yourself this...who finished #2 in 2001 or 2006? Do you care?
Overall BYU has a better tradition than Utah in football and everything else. It is what it is.
BYU continues to improve the quality of recruits, the coaching staff is top notch( Anae definitely could improve on his play calling though), and we have a ton of talent coming back. If Max Hall can improve on looking off defenders and if we get some legitimate speed in the defensive backfield, we will be a national contender.
I am a die hard BYU fan and am optimistic about the future. The Utes were the better team this year, but I am sure they will continue to blow a game or two each season to conference foes like UNLV and New Mexico as they have in the past. Greatness is just around the corner for the Cougs.
1-21 against ranked teams
9-16-1 in bowl games since Edwards took over.
The numbers simply are not good when BYU steps up to play top competition.
The basetball 20-year drought in the tourney reflects much of the same problem.
Utah's recent success against top teams in both football and basketball probably make BYU's failures against top teams even more glaring.
1. BYU has a better undergraduate school than the U (though both are good) ranked 113 vs 127 out of 1400 by US News and World Report.
2. BYU has (on average) better students than the University of Utah. average H.S. GPA (3.8 vs 3.5)
Finally having attended BYU as well as a state school I can say that the student body, and campus, and learning environment, were head and shoulders above the competition. The facilities and faculty were on par with other schools. One of the biggest differences though was BYU's Bureaucratic efficiency was unparalleled. Financial aid, registration, everything was 100 times more organized and efficient.
BYU fans have lived on them for several decades and now after two great seasons out of the last twenty years we will have to endure the pomposity of Utah fans.
Facts (Sears Cup) show that BYU does have by far the superior overall mens and womens athletic programs. Light years ahead of those on the Hill (eg Volleyball/Track/Golf/Cross Country/etc.)
But neither school will really be a force on the national scene until they are invited to join the PAC-10....in about a hundred years or more than likely never.
I only point this out because it illustrates the fact that most BYU "claims" to superiority in almost any area are really assumptions unsupported by facts. BYU has more national cred? Not by any relevant measure. BYU has a better recruiting base? Not when you consider the players' subsequent performance. BYU is the top dawg? Certainly the "most hated," but anything more is a stretch.
If it helps ease the pain to keep drinking the 1984 Kool-Aid, then go for it. But don't expect anyone to take you seriously past the Utah County line. Focus on reality and get better; beat good teams! Stop living on 30 year old fumes and dreaming about mythical Quests. It's been 25 years since you were nationally relevant. You are like that guy that can't stop talking about how cool he was in high school.
The statistics speak for themselves. Let's leave this alone until fall of 2009.
If I was BYU, I would be more worried about Utah St. passing them by.
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