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| God cannot be both Omnipotent and Omnicient at the same time |
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Posted On: Jul 8 2008 11:53AM
Omnipotence and omniscience are mutually incompatible. If god is omniscient, he must already know how he is going to intervene to change the course of history using his omnipotence. But this means he can't change his mine about his intervention, which means he is not omnipotent. Welcome to the paradox.
-Example from Dawkins |
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Posted On: Jul 8 2008 1:10PM
Who said he is planning to change the course of History? Are we not involved at all as a people?
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Posted On: Jul 8 2008 5:21PM
Why do people pray if god isn't going to change anything because he knows how everything should be and planned it that way? Poor planning too, if you ask me.
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Posted On: Jul 8 2008 5:40PM
You are putting God in a box and limiting Him the way we are limited. How are the two mutually exclusive when relating to God? He is not restricted by time. A child is born today...if God would like to see how this childs life turns out, He can see each and every detail. I believe the Holy Bible is God inspired...His word...unerring. For all Biblical prophecies to come to fruition, would God not need to be privy of events that occur beyond the prophet's life? Now are you going to next question freewill?
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Posted On: Jul 8 2008 6:03PM
If you're dealing in absolutes that contradict each other, then yes, I'm questioning it. Now we'll talk about free will. If god is omniscient and knows what your choices under free will are going to be and how it will end, how is that benevolent? You're created with a destiny which ends with you being damned for eternity? Why would a benevolent god create a creature and predestine that creature to eternal punishment, fully aware that this will be the case from before the beginning?
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Posted On: Jul 8 2008 6:40PM
I know you are talking to blmmcar..
But ~~ I will say one thing....
or two..
WE ALWAYS HAVE A FREE WILL, we are not robots....AND TWO. You have till the moment you take your last breath to be saved.
The Bible even says, God wants us all to be saved. That sounds pretty positive and hopeful to me...
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Posted On: Jul 8 2008 6:46PM
So god wants us all to be saved but he created some people knowing they would be damned for eternity...it would seem that god wants that too, or he wouldn't create people knowing that they will choose to be damned.
Another thing, how does anything we do on earth demand an eternal punishment? I can think of few things bad enough to demand a life sentence, let alone an eternal one. How, if god is a fair god, does that punishment fit any crime? If you read Dante, there are people being punished eternally for things like greed or lust. Isn't that overkill? Besides the fact that god created people with inclinations that would lead them to such a thing. That seems cruel and unforgiving.
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Posted On: Jul 8 2008 7:57PM
You just don't get it...or you are trying to play devils advocate...pardon the pun! God created us in his own image...not to die, but to live forever. He created an unimaginable garden for man and woman to dwell. Both were deceived and sinned...God told them not to eat from the tree of knowledge...they disobeyed. They chose their own path, rather than the one God had created for them. Because of that, they were separated from God. God cannot exist with sin...prior to Jesus sacrificing himself for all of us...He completely atoned for all of us, another blood sacrifice had to be made for sin. God killed to clothe the fallen ones...Adam and Eve...this was the first death. The wages of sin is death...Christ paid the price for all of us...those who reject Jesus are separated from God for eternity...because they are unforgiven. Just my take...
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Posted On: Jul 8 2008 9:05PM
So are you saying that the command in the garden was a test, or that choices we make are tests from god? That doesn't fit with omniscience either, on two levels. Either god knows what we're going to do before we do it, and has created us to damn us, so why test us at all? ...Or he doesn't know what we're going to do and is therefore not omniscient, hence the need to test.
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Posted On: Jul 9 2008 8:31AM
Did ndfinfan or the bible use the word test?
God talked with and walked with Adam and Eve each day in the cool of the garden. That had to have been very wonderful. They chose to give it up....
test? I don't know, maybe it was just a rule... :)
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Posted On: Jul 9 2008 8:36AM
If god knows what the outcome is going to be when he tests us, then it's a setup. It would mean that he knows you're going to hell and that he planned it that way. If he doesn't know, then he can't be omniscient.
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Posted On: Jul 9 2008 8:37AM
Okay then, what would you call the command to Abraham to kill his only son in sacrifice?
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Posted On: Jul 9 2008 8:43AM
NIV Genesis 22 1 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, "Abraham!" "Here I am," he replied.
2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, Isaac, whom you love, and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on one of the mountains I will tell you about."
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Posted On: Jul 9 2008 10:14AM
That was a definite test, but was adam and eve a test? I probably would have failed the test abraham had to take....
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Posted On: Jul 9 2008 12:08PM
You're missing the point.
Tell me how it is possible for god to know everything and control everything and also give free will? If he asks a question he is automatically not omniscient because he already knows the answer to that queston and there are many instances in the Bible where he asks people questions to answers he does not know.
If he puts you through a test he already knows the outcome because he has a divine and plan and knows every instance of your life already, so you praying for a different outcome is almost an insult to gods divine plan, Since I am an atheist god knew I would be an atheist when he put me on earth because he is all knowing and all powerful, so by creating me and putting me here as an atheist he has already damned me to hell. There is no free will with a god that has a divine plan and is all powerful and all knowing, doesn't work, it's a paradox.
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