As the standoff in Gaza continues, Israel’s enemies and neighbors in the Mideast are protecting and promoting their own interests. In an earlier discussion in Room for Debate, we sought Israeli and Palestinian perspectives. In this discussion, we’ve asked a group of experts to analyze the motives and actions of the regional players, including Turkey, Iran and Jordan, so far in the conflict.
- Grenville Byford, specialist on Turkey
- Karim Sadjadpour, Carnegie Endowment
- Daoud Kuttab, Palestinian journalist
Behind Turkey’s Rhetoric
Grenville Byford, a writer based in Paris, specializes in Turkish politics and security issues.
To evaluate Turkish Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan’s harsh criticism of Israel’s incursion into Gaza, you need four facts:
The Israel-Gaza Conflict
Other experts in previous discussion on the war in Gaza.
1. The Turkish people are Muslims, and they hate to see other Muslims bleed. Their empathy is powerful and instinctive.
2. Turkish political rhetoric is harsher than its mainstream American equivalent, and Erdogan, remember, is addressing a domestic audience.
3. Erdogan has an emotional streak and feels the suffering of others. It is one reason why he is a great politician. Yesterday, he visited a small group of Palestinians flown to Ankara for treatment and, the papers say, had tears in his eyes. This was not mere political posturing, nor is he alone. Turkish President Abdullah Gul is from the same mold.
4. Turkey has been working hard and with some success to bring Israel and Syria together. Five days before the operation started, Prime Minister Ehud Olmert of Israel visited Ankara and acted as if nothing was wrong. He must have known he was about to give orders that would blow the Turks’ initiative sky high. The Turks feel they were lied to. They would not have expected Olmert to come clean. Indeed it would have embarrassed them if he had. But Olmert could have found a diplomatic excuse to postpone the visit.
Turkey’s Prime Minister Tayyip Erdogan spoke with a wounded Palestinian man. (Photo: KLC/Agence France-Presse — Getty Images)Observe this, though: Erdogan has been careful not to actually do anything to damage the Turkey-Israel relationship. When his political opponents attempted to outflank him on the issue he said “we are not running a grocery store here” and declined to consider economic or diplomatic sanctions. Foreign Minister Ali Babacan confirmed this position yesterday.
The relatively moderate response of Olmert et al. (as distinct from their surrogates) to Turkey’s criticism suggests they understand. Meanwhile, Erdogan’s principal foreign policy adviser, Ahmet Davutoglu, visits Cairo and Damascus. There, in addition to President Bashar al-Assad of Syria, he talks with Khaled Meshal of Hamas — a conversation only possible because of the Turkish government’s much criticized invitation to Hamas after the Palestinian group’s 2006 election victory. What the Turks said then was, “Do you think it wise that Hamas talk only to the Iranians?” This is a channel Israel may yet find useful.
Looking to the future, everything depends on how much longer the fighting in Gaza continues. As the death toll rises, domestic pressure on Erdogan will increase. Eventually, he will have to act. He will damage the Turkish-Israeli relationship with great reluctance, but Turkey has elections in March. He will not commit electoral seppuku.
Khamenei Is No Realist
Karim Sadjadpour, an associate at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
The Iranian government’s feelings toward Israel are straightforward: in times of peace it is utter contempt. In times of war it is visceral hatred.
But why?
After all Iran is not Arab, has no direct land disputes with Israel, no Palestinian refugee problem, and has the largest Jewish community in the Middle East outside of Israel.
“I used to believe that Iran would be capable of altering its approach toward Israel in the context of a broader U.S.-Iran accommodation.”
The images of dead Palestinian women and children are heart-wrenching. But why should Iran take a more strident approach to the Palestinian cause than, say, Lebanon, Egypt or even Syria — Arab nations that have lost hundreds of their sons in wars fought against Israel?
Broadly speaking, there are two schools of thought. One says that Iran and Israel are natural rivals for primacy in the Middle East, and hence the hostility between them is really a strategic joust cloaked in ideological garb. “One country cannot have two kings,” is how one of Iran’s top political thinkers once put it to me.
As Iranian political analyst Saeed Leylaz told Michael Slackman of The New York Times: “Hamas is a very practical and useful tool for Iran, not an ideological one at all. It is a very good tool for Iran, especially in its dealings with the U.S. What is happening right now in Gaza has made it easier for Iran to promote anti-U.S. feelings among Muslims.”
The other school of thought argues that opposition to Israel is a deeply held ideological tenet of Iran’s 1979 revolution. Tehran is not simply “playing” the Palestinian card as a means to garner popular support in the region; the Palestinian cause is a glorious end in itself. The rhetoric of the Iranian regime is taken at face value: nothing less than the dissolution — note I am talking about a political dissolution, not a physical annihilation — of the Jewish state would satisfy Tehran’s hardline leadership.
When I was based in Tehran with the International Crisis Group and frequently interviewing Iranian officials, I used to believe that Iran would be capable of altering its approach toward Israel in the context of a broader U.S.-Iran accommodation.
Iran’s Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei. (Photo: Morteza Farajabadi/Associated Press)I no longer am so optimistic, at least in the near term. Let’s put aside the radical rantings of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and focus on the most powerful man in Tehran, Supreme Leader Ayatollah Khamenei, whose writings and speeches are the most accurate reflection of Iranian domestic and foreign policy aims and practices.
In a study I did of Khamenei-based on three decades’ worth of his speeches (the antithesis of “Chicken Soup for the Soul”) I found him to be highly cynical and conspiratorial, but at the same time incredibly consistent and earnest. In thousands of pages of material, there were few, if any, contradictions.
Remarkably, the issue that has featured most prominently in his political discourse since the 1979 revolution has been his opposition to Israel’s existence. Whether his audience is Iranian students or foreign dignitaries, or the topic of his speech is foreign policy, education or agriculture, he rarely misses an opportunity to invoke the professed virtues of the 1979 revolution — justice, independence, self-sufficiency and Islam — and express his deep disdain for “the Zionist entity.”
For many close observers of U.S.-Iranian relations, the Islamic Republic’s uncompromising stance on Israel represents the greatest impediment to U.S.-Iranian relations. Would Khamenei be willing to abandon Tehran’s support for groups like Hamas and Hezbollah in exchange for a diplomatic accommodation with the United States, whereby Washington recognized Iran’s “pre-eminence” in the region?
If we take his rhetoric at face value, the prospects aren’t bright:
“The ridiculous accusations such as human rights violations or seeking weapons of mass destruction are only empty claims aimed at exerting pressure on the Islamic Republic, and if Iran stops its support of the Lebanese and Palestinian people, the United States will also change its hostile attitude toward the Islamic Republic….But we consider supporting the Palestinian and Lebanese people one of our major Islamic duties.”
Nonetheless, to paraphrase Donald Rumsfeld, we have to deal with the Iranian leaders we’ve got, not the ones we wish we had. A continued U.S.-Israel-Iran proxy war for hegemony in the Middle East will continue to produce the same horrendous results witnessed in Lebanon in 2006 and Gaza today: no clear winners, unnecessary and excessive civilian casualties, and more fertile ground for radicals more interested in continuing the fight rather than ending it.
Jordan Tiptoes Through the Minefield
Daoud Kuttab, a Palestinian journalist and former professor of journalism at Princeton University.
These days Jordanian public and private discourse is in harmony at the near unanimous opposition to the Israeli assault on Gaza. Indeed, the king, the queen and the government, as well as opposition parties, seem to be singing the same tune.
Queen Rania donated blood to injured Palestinians. (Photo: Naser Ayoub/European Pressphoto Agency)Every day, protesters are calling for expelling the Israeli ambassador and abrogating the peace treaty Jordan signed with Israel in 1994. Early on, King Abdullah and Queen Rania were filmed giving blood for victims in Gaza. And approval ratings for Nader Dahabi, Jordan’s prime minister, rose to 80 percent after his recent remarks to Parliament about revisiting regional treaties, including the one with Israel.
But the public reaction has been the strongest. Daily demonstrations are taking place in the capital and throughout the country. Artists, professionals and even Christian religious leaders and lay people have been on the forefront of protests, including one in the upscale Rabiyya neighborhood not far away from the Israeli Embassy. A month ago, Jordanian officials routinely denied requests for permission to carry out even low-key protests, but not anymore. Indeed, they’ve been extremely tolerant of them.
Some protests have gotten out of hand. Last Friday, demonstrators near the Israeli embassy scuffled with police officers charged with protecting embassies and public buildings. The officers say stones were thrown at them, and demonstrators claim the police threw a tear gas canister inside a mosque where they had fled. Thirty citizens have filed complaints with the local human rights commission. The king personally called on some of the injured, as did the prime minister, who also promised an investigation. A police spokesman apologized, a rare event for any Arab country.
“The political sensitivity for Jordan can’t be underestimated.”
The political sensitivity for Jordan can’t be underestimated. Jordan has survived wars and troubles throughout the region by taking a moderate stance. A mix of tough internal security, a clever intelligence service and a government that tries to co-opt rather than imprison its opposition has allowed the country not only to survive but to even benefit from troubles in nearby countries: There has been an influx of people and money from Iraq and Lebanon. But even Jordan’s moderation has not protected it from the anger of a public glued to satellite TV, watching horrific images of suffering children and civilians in Gaza.
So far, King Abdullah seems to have succeeded in absorbing this anger by publicly opposing the Israeli actions without burning bridges with Israel. To his credit the Jordanian monarch has for the past two years been the most vocal opponent of the continuation of the status quo in the occupied territories and has been pushing the international community to press Israel to lift the blockade on Gaza and conclude a peace deal with the Palestinian Authority. The king has also approved low-level talks with Hamas, a move that now seems very clever.
At a time when the Egyptian embassies are the targets of protests in most Arab countries, the general consensus is that Jordan has played it just right: reacting in a proper way, approving protests and declaring that the treaty with Israel might be reviewed without actually taking any concrete steps against Israel.
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Karim Sadjadpour ignores another possible explanation for Iran’s more hostile approach towards Israel: the country is considerably more democratic than the US-backed dictatorships in Jordan, Egypt or Saudi Arabia.; in addition, the government’s stability does not rely on US support.
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— christian h.very sad. Where is u.n and other councils. What r they doing for palestine people.
— Ahmed rashydOne thing is clear - the sympathy factor for Palestinian, partcularly Gaza - is on the rise everywhere. Empathy and sympathy for Israel is going to hit an all time low, all over the world, just like Bush’s ratings.
Even children are initaiting collection drives for food, clothese, medicines, essentials - to be sent to Gaza victims and communities. The Arab world watches in horror. Hearts bleed. And at the same time, hearts harden for Israelis. They cannot win our hearts any more. They will have to go it alone.
— g.kayFinally, we get some legitimate analysis of Iranian, Arab, and Turkish perspectives from people who know those countries. Usually, in the NYTimes and other media outlets we are at the mercy of so-called “experts” of the Middle East whose only interests are to advance neo-con/ Zionist agendas.
— MehmetAt the time of the British mandate for Palestine, two thirds wetre Palestinian Arabs and one third Jewish. If you go by democratic principles, the majority vote or desires should count, which was One state, do not divide. But instead, you have outside powers and an outside body (U.N) going against the wishes of the majority indigenous people and dividing the land.
— Semo RantamakiSo, now that the foundation of the state was made on shaky moral grounds, Israel tries to obfuscate each flare up by focusing on the symptoms, not the cause. Focus on homemade and Chinese rocket fire, not Israel’s total blockade of Gaza and periodic violent incursions. Focus on the smuggling of crude arms, not Israel’s blockbuster supplies of F-16s, Apache helicopters and much more.
It is the religion of the Palestinians that is the problem, not the occupation, not the blockade, not the bombings, not the land grabs, not the suffering of the Nomad arabs in Negev who cannot even get water lines and so on…
How about a one state solution ? Oh no ! Israel must be a Jewish state, even if it has to be done artificially. Israel is willing to bring in millions of Jews thousand of miles away from around the world, but not Muslim palestinians a few miles away from the West Bank. Does not that sound racist to you ? Israel just wants the land there, but not the people in it if they are not Jewish (especially if they are Muslims). After cleansing the Arab villages of Palestinians and making refugees of them, Israel have kept some token Arabs as Israeli Arabs, as longs as they are a minority.
My question is why not a one state solution ? If you forcibly remove part of a population (making them refugees) and bring in only Jewish people from around the world, ignoring people a few miles away in the West Bank (which Israel controls) to make a Jewish state artificially, is that legitimate ?
I have reluctantly come to the conclusion that since the world as ceded authority to Israel and the U.S. on the Israeli-Palestinian issues, trhat now ‘terrorism’ (non-state action) is in order. Hence I must side with Bin Laden. I don’t know how effective it will be, but these atrocities can not go unanswered.
And this coming from an American Jew! Imagine how the Arabs and the Muslims of the world must feel!
— irwinWhy can’t it be uNITED sTATES OF Israel and Palestine - one nation, two states and territories within. May peace come to all.
— g.kayThe IDF has no mercy for the children in Gaza nursery schools by Gideon levy Haaretz correspondent
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1055574.html
The fighting in Gaza is “war deluxe.” Compared with previous wars, it is child’s play - pilots bombing unimpeded as if on practice runs, tank and artillery soldiers shelling houses and civilians from their armored vehicles, combat engineering troops destroying entire streets in their ominous protected vehicles without facing serious opposition. A large, broad army is fighting against a helpless population and a weak, ragged organization that has fled the conflict zones and is barely putting up a fight. All this must be said openly, before we begin exulting in our heroism and victory.
This war is also child’s play because of its victims. About a third of those killed in Gaza have been children - 311, according to the Palestinian Health Ministry, 270 according to the B’Tselem human rights group - out of the 1,000 total killed as of Wednesday. Around 1,550 of the 4,500 wounded have also been children according to figures from the UN, which says the number of children killed has tripled since the ground operation began.
This is too large a proportion by any humanitarian or ethical standard.
It is enough to look at the pictures coming from Shifa Hospital to see how many burned, bleeding and dying children now lie there. History has seen innumerable brutal wars take countless lives.
But the horrifying proportion of this war, a third of the dead being children, has not been seen in recent memory.
God does not show mercy on the children at Gaza’s nursery schools, and neither does the Israel Defense Forces. That’s how it goes when war is waged in such a densely populated area with a population so blessed with children. About half of Gaza’s residents are under 15.
No pilot or soldier went to war to kill children. Not one among them intended to kill children, but it also seems neither did they intend not to kill them. They went to war after the IDF had already killed 952 Palestinian children and adolescents since May 2000.
The public’s shocking indifference to these figures is incomprehensible. A thousand propagandists and apologists cannot excuse this criminal killing. One can blame Hamas for the death of children, but no reasonable person in the world will buy these ludicrous, flawed propagandistic goods in light of the pictures and statistics coming from Gaza.
One can say Hamas hides among the civilian population, as if the Defense Ministry in Tel Aviv is not located in the heart of a civilian population, as if there are places in Gaza that are not in the heart of a civilian population. One can also claim that Hamas uses children as human shields, as if in the past our own organizations fighting to establish a country did not recruit children.
A significant majority of the children killed in Gaza did not die because they were used as human shields or because they worked for Hamas. They were killed because the IDF bombed, shelled or fired at them, their families or their apartment buildings. That is why the blood of Gaza’s children is on our hands, not on Hamas’ hands, and we will never be able to escape that responsibility.
The children of Gaza who survive this war will remember it. It is enough to watch Nazareth-born Juliano Mer Khamis’ wonderful movie “Arna’s Children” to understand what thrives amid the blood and ruin we are leaving behind. The film shows the children of Jenin - who have seen less horror than those of Gaza - growing up to be fighters and suicide bombers.
A child who has seen his house destroyed, his brother killed and his father humiliated will not forgive.
The last time I was allowed to visit Gaza, in November 2006, I went to the Indira Gandhi nursery school in Beit Lahia. The schoolchildren drew what they had seen the previous day: an IDF missile striking their school bus, killing their teacher, Najwa Halif, in front of their eyes. They were in shock. It is possible some of them have now been killed or wounded themselves.
— tohu bohuI have to agree with G. Kay.
Most Canadians don’t know the difference between Israel and Ossama Bin Laden.
We do know that anybody that uses F-16 fighter jets to drop bombs and burning phosphorous on little children is not a very nice neighbour.
— PatrickOften one thinks of brotherhood as a positive value. However, it seems that that bond which many Muslims (apparently) feel for one another gets in the way of intelligent discourse. According to the articles above it looks as though the people of these neighboring countries are simply giving their support to their fellow Muslims based only on the fact that they are Muslim. Should they not be assessing the validity of their support for Gaza in the first place? Why are the images of Palestinians bleeding more lurid than those of Israelis bleeding? Should Israel not defend its own citizens? — that seems to be what the neighboring countries are calling for.
— Alexander RicheyVery interesting reporting indeed by these three experts on the Middle East. I do hope that some kind of real measures instead of only words are taken against the Israeli State by Turkey and Jordan.
— Dina BernThe behavior of the Israeli army doesn’t cease to amaze me. As soon as I think I’ve heard the worst, something else comes to show me I’m wrong.
Burning of the hospitals and the UN headquarters in Gaza are war crimes. Israel does not and has never respected any decision by the UN and has total contempt for the organization’s property, work and obligation to help those in need. Israel seems to have forgotten that it owes its statehood status precisely to the UN. If in 1948 a single state would have acted as Israel does today, it wouldn’t enjoy its statehood today. It’s high time its leaders realize that their behavior is not different from the behavior of the so called “terrorists” they claim to fight against. There is nothing lower than hurting those who cannot defend themselves.
It is inconceivable that people still believe that Israel could possibly be an apartheid state or that they do not show mercy to children as they pursue the terrorists that lob rocket or missile after rocket and missile.
It is a ludicrous thought that a population of 8 million be under constant bombardment and not take action to stop it. Those that believe that the US is wrong in backing this action to stop the attacks, must not understand what 9/11 was all about.
How did you feel when the World Trade Center was attacked not once, but twice! Israel has been undergoing a similar thing with over 6,000 Chinese, Persian, and homemade rockets and missiles hitting them. Besides that, there are over 50,000 missiles and rockets aimed at Israel from Southern Lebanon supplied by those same countries as well as Russia. Tell me that you would stand by and allow Russia or China to deploy weapons aimed at us without reacting?
Wake-up, people! You must understand that self-defense is what we’re all involved with here in the US and in Israel. Anything more would be unsupported by our citizens here in the US and by those in Israel. You can see that if they do not like what their government does, they bring in a new one.
Do not allow the propaganda of these people to fool you. Israel would gladly give-up all claim to most of the land they captured in the 1967 war except for those that are security -based for total peace. But, they will not hang themselves.
As for Jews having a homeland, we have been kicked-out of most countries over the centuries with lots of either Inquisitions, pogroms, assassinations, mass killings, all on innocent people. We rightly deserved our land back. It was never the Palestinian Arabs. It has always been Jewish for over 3,000 years. Learn your history. Read the facts.
— Mike Ramerthe palestinian issue is the gravest injustice of the 20th century and it’s continuing into the 21st.
in 1947, a land was called palestine, its people palestinian. post 1947, the land is called israel and the palestinians scattered to places called the west bank and the gaza strip. what are the palestinians supposed to do? their existence cannot be wiped away by the stroke of a pen.
then they elect their representative government. we declare the elected government to be terrorist and therefore unlawful. who are we to make that determination?
i understand that israel, at this point, must also exist and a means found for co-existence. but the world cannot stand behind israel without finding a permanent and just remedy for the palestinian people.
— al mcleanI agree with Semo Rantamaki & Christain H.
The problem is that these so called ‘experts’ are providing an analysis in order to manufacture a consensus which is then recited over and over, as if somehow they can change the realities on the ground through the constant repetition of their own analysis on their own media outlets.
The reality is that there is no reason why the Zionist State of Israel should exist where it is, as if we are to take the Zionist point of view then the entire Caucasian population of North America, Australasia & Africa and the Hispanic population of South America should be rounded up & housed on a tiny strip of land and live in the same conditions as the Palestinians have been subjected to, or sent back to live in Europe. Otherwise give those lands back to their rightful owners, who have been ruthlessly & systematically annihilated, from the indigenous peoples of the Americas, to Aborigines and native tribes of Africa.
Israel, USA & Western European policies are the number one threat to peace & security known to mankind and rather than looking to point fingers at peace loving nations who are protecting their right to exist in their homeland, the Western mindset would rather create an illegitimate terrorist state and back ruthless dictators and monarchs to carry out their tyrannical policies on the people of the Middle East.
All these analyst are creating the murky water, come on boys, tell the truth and admit all of today’s conflicts are due to adventurous Imperialistic policies, so the question should be whether countries such as Iran will except the Zionist State of Israel but whether mankind can still exist under such policies as pursued by the Western powers?
— cuba montanaThe fact of the matter is that the Arabs created this mess. Arabs, whose own countries are ALL modern creations from the left over scraps of the Ottoman Empire, can’t stand the fact that Jews are not the dhimmis that the Quran wants them to be, but a free people with self-determination on their own land. Jordan is the Arab country created from the British Mandate of Palestine. Jordan, the darling of the Western media, actually has apartheid enshrined in its constituion because no Jews are allowed to live there and that constitution was created 25 years before israel was even reborn. Israel on the other hand has one million Palestinians living amongst them with israeli passports. Jordan, Syria and lebanon EACH has killed more Palestinians to use as propaganda tools than israel has defending itself from genocidal onslaught. But hateful, genocidal, and imperialist (or is it caliphatist) Arabs and their Russian paymasters and European appeasers, have anti-Semitism deep in their veins. Israel accepted every partition it was offered and the Arabs rejected each and every one. Would Jews gain more credibility if we strapped oursleves with bombs and set oursleves off in the middle of marketpalces? Or if we cut Muslim’s heads off with blunt blades for the world to see? or if we indisriminatley targeted Muslim worhsippers or tourists or instituations anywhere in the world? It seems that is the language appeasers take seriously. But, the fundamental flaw with Jews is that they love life. They love their enemies children more than their enemies do. Why else do you think Arabs cheapen their own blood by insisting on trading one single Jew held hostage for a 1000 murdering, indoctrinated time-bombs? The only message I want to convey is that Jews are civilization builders. But we have been pushed and exterminated long enough by the Babylonians, the Assyrians, the greeks, the Romans, the Persians, the Christians, the Arabs, the Ottomans, the Russians, the Nazis and the list goes on. But you corner a Lion long enough and your citiies will disappear in mushroom clouds.
— There is no moral equivalenceOne thing that the apologists for the terrorists plying their hatred towards Israel forget is that the Palestinians had two chances in the last 60 years to have a homeland of their own. They don’t have to look far to learn the cause of their suffering. Don’t blame Israel. The Palestinians should simply look in the mirror and at most of the leadership in the Arab world that has basically used them as pawns in order to hide their own incompetence.
— Ling PoIran, the ultimate warped hypocrite, the puppet master behind the deaths of over 1000 Palestinians in Gaza, uses this tragedy to score points in its quest to destabilize the middle east. There seems to be a kind of competition between Iran and Al Queda to be the terror champs of the world, you might say the terrorist equivalent to the Olympics or World Games.
Hamas and the Palestinians in Gaza are now playing the price for using senseless violence in a misguided attempt to achieve their delusional dream of destroying Israel. Iran, the 21st century’s version of Nazi Germany and the grandmaster of worldwide terror and insurgencies now wants to acquire nuclear weapons while constantly stating its goal of wiping Israel off the face of the earth and calling the US the Great Satan, and chanting “Death to America.” If Iran doesn’t get back in touch with reality soon, it may end up looking a lot worse than Gaza does today. The US, NATO, Israel and the Gulf Arabs/Egypt are not too happy with the trajectory Iran has been on in recent years.
— rayleequootedWe in the U.S. must accept that Israel is not destined to remain an independent state unless the people who live in the region are willing to accept it’s existence. There are many who sympathize with the rightness of a jewish state in the land that the Bible describes a having been given to the ancient Hebrews as their place on Earth and from which they have been continually driven out only to return later. But they are mistaken if they think that Israel is destined to remain in existence if the current state of affairs continues to exist.
Israel’s foreign policy since it’s founding has been focused upon fighting a long war with belligerent and hostile neighboring and domestic populations to remain in existence. Each victory in fending off attacks again themselves has reenforced the Israelis’ faith that they are going to have their way despite the opposition of all those who live around them. They simply do not see that it’s one thing to fend off or spoil an attack, it’s other thing to win the acceptance of neighbors who have been attacking, let alone force those neighbors into complying with one’s wishes — so that they can live in peace.
It is becoming obvious that the Palestinians and Arabs within Israel and the occupied territories will not be forced by Israel’s violence into accepting and living in peace with Israel. It’s also obvious that the populations in the neighboring countries are not developing any sympathy with Israel as they witness these conflicts.
Jordan, Turkey, and Iran may not be about to attack Israel, and Jordan and Turkey may be willing to maintain relations with Israel but they are not close to being allies nor even cordial neighbors with Israel.
Israel is sixty years old but with or without U.S. help it may not last another six decades unless it achieves peaceful and friendly relations with it’s neighbors.
— HighlanderWhat the world is “royally ignoring” is that the Hamass’s mission statement calling the distruction of the State of Israel.
For that purpose they are training first graders with live weapons and sends them to be in the front lines.
Golda Meir once said: We can forgive the Arabs for killing our children. We will only have peace with the Arabs only when they love their children more that they hate us.”
A suvereign state should have used the Billion of Dollars received by the Hamas government to build infra structure aimimg towards building schools, hospitals roads…what did they do with these Billions? buy more weapons and build tunnels to house them.
why is the “world” watches these events unfold and say NOTHING at all?
Dalia
— Dalia N.I am appalled that no Israeli viewpoint be allowed to express itself here…
— Elisabeth DesréAppalled, as well, by the strong anti-Jewish bias of previous posts (see above).
Who mentions here the death of Israeli civilians, among which Jewish Israeli children, of course? How could Hamas’s inhuman bombing of civilian sites NOT be followed by any response?
Which state will let itself be bombarbed for years, and NOT ‘retaliate’?
I’m astonished at the sheer lack of imagination -at the sheer foolishness- of the various people who’ve posting comments here.
This entire conflict leads to nowhere. Israel asserts that this is a moral conflict, and denies legitimacy of the universal (save the U.S.) chorus of condemnation. Of course it leads to even more isolation for Israel.
When Israel becomes a nation comprised of its people, that is the day we have to look forward to. It could transition from a functional democracy to one with democratic ideals, and it may even adopt a constitution then.
In the meantime, how about deducting the cost of rebuilding impoverished Gaza from the annual $3G handout to Israel?
Anything can be seen as rewarding bad behavior.
— Andy RasmussenIn answer to Alexander Richey’s question: Why are the images of Palestinians bleeding more lurid than those of Israelis bleeding?
The Israelis are using F16s, Apache helicopters, missiles and white phosphorous against an essentially defenceless population. In comparison, Palestinian rockets are crude fireworks made in metalwork shops that, from memory, have hurt eight people in three years.
— SenIt’s one thing to take note of the Iranian government’s insistence on the destruction of Israel. But why isn’t this a two-way street? Why is no analysis made of the US insistence of: #1, Israel’s existence, and #2, Iran as part of the US’s “backyard.”
The US government, in every term of every president since WW2, has insisted on these two points. The installation of the Shah after the CIA-orchestrated coup in the 1950s as well as the constant arming of Israel speak to more the reality of the situation than all the smoke & mirrors utilized by various analysts.
The brushing aside, nay, the upholding, of every Israeli transgression since its inception says what? That the US supports democracy in the Middle East? Or that Israel is the US’s attack dog, a dog that sometimes is a bit more vicious than the master would like, but then, after all, it’s a dog, right? Who can control a dog? That’s the logic of the defense of Israeli outrages.
There were Palestinians in Palestine every day that there have been Hebrews in Judea. Why wasn’t it until after WW2 that the Hebrews got the right to deny Palestinians their rightful place? Because it served the interests of the hand holding the leash of the attack dog.
Golda Meir once offered to colonize Argentina for Britain or the US (she wasn’t proud). She ended up with the holy land - easier to justify. And more useful to the master.
— TomThe amateur commentators in this thread want Israel to accept Hamas, i.e., accept rockets aimed at their civilians. Think about whether you would accept that for yourself. If the answer is no, then you must also understand that Hamas must be destroyed. If the answer is yes, “bomb me”–then you’re likely a brazen liar.
— BrianIt is time for the Arab world and Iran too to accept Israel and resolve the conflict. But you scream and protest. Admit, then, that you take responsibility for the violence because you too want to destroy Israel. In an conflict of either you destroy Israel or Israel destroys you, why should Israel commit suicide. Rather, you should commit suicide. Now you understand what Hamas is doing. Clear?
Always, always, the baseline facts of this situation get buried by tit-for-tat topical arguments. Israel invaded and occupied land mandated by the U.N. for Palestine in 1967; they’re still there and there still isn’t a Palestinian country. Offer Palestinians a truly independent country based on the 1967 borders and I’m willing to bet that support for Hamas vanishes overnight.
I’m also willing to bet that Israel will never willingly give up it’s dream of a greater Israel, stretching from the sea to the Jordan river,no matter that doing so would finally bring peace to the region.
— Kenneth Young