cc stigma for applicants to tt jobs?

[dalekk]

With the economy going to hell and no signs of recovery, I’m assuming that the job market is likely to get worse next year and will probably take several years to get better as there will be a backlog of PhDs looking for jobs in the next few years. With no money saved and no family, my only thing to fall back on is a credit card.  With survival as my most important concern, I’m considering applying to a handful of community college positions this year to have some kind of steady income the next 2-3 years should it take me that long to find a tt job.  I’m wondering what those of you who have been on search committees think of applicants who are currently at community colleges.  In discussing this with friends, there seems to be some disagreement as to whether or not search committees look down on applicants who are currently at a cc.  Is there any stigma?  Thoughts?

My goal is a tt job at a 4-year institution, and I definitely have a research agenda.  So I don’t want to hurt my chances at that.  Fwiw, I’m in history and have a Ph.D. from one of the top programs.  I’m currently a VAP.  I guess I’m wondering if its best just to keep doing the VAP thing or maybe go the cc route while looking for a tt job.  I’m still hoping for something this year, but I have not yet landed any AHA or phone interviews.  I realize it’s still early.

I searched but found nothing.  Feel free to send me to a thread if there is one.

Thanks.   

[dr_dre]

Do you mean looking for a TT position at a CC as a stepping stone position? Or adjuncting?

[zuzu_]

I know this isn't what you were asking, but as an SC member at a CC, I can tell you that it would be unwise to assume that the CC market is necessarily less competitive than the "regular" college market.

For example, I worked in a CC English department several years ago that received 200+ applications for each TT position. This was near a mid-sized city; not the most geographically desirable nor the least geographically desirable.

If you do decide to apply widely at CCs, I strongly suggest you check out this series of CHE columns called The Two-Year Track. One of the issues that comes up over and over again is not appearing like you plan to use the institution as a stepping stone (even if you are).

http://chronicle.com/jobs/news/archives/columns/the_twoyear_track/

You should also be aware that there has been some debate on this forum as to how a PhD affects your chances of landing a CC position. Many say that it makes you more competitive, but some would say it can possibly make you less competitive at some CCs, particularly where the majority of faculty does not hold a PhD. I can tell you that at my CC, it doesn't make a whit of difference whether or not you have an MA or a PhD. All we would be concerned with are your teaching skills. And we would be suspcious of your motives for applying.

Good luck with your search.

[dalekk]

Do you mean looking for a TT position at a CC as a stepping stone position? Or adjuncting?

Yes, I meant a tt at a cc while looking for a permanent tt position at a 4-year institution.  My concern is how search committees at 4-year institutions look at PhDs applying from a permanent cc position.  Is this seen as less or more desirable?  Neutral?

[dalekk]

Thanks for the link, zuzu.  Yes, I realize it cuts both ways. 

[svenc]

As someone who has been on several SCs at large R1s, I have to admit that for our positions, there would be a stigma against applicants applying from community colleges.  But it certainly would be less than the stigma against someone who spent 3 years bagging groceries or hawking vacuum cleaners door-to-door!

In other words, the real question in a tough job market is what other alternatives would be preferable?  If you enjoy teaching and find that you have offers at community colleges but not at four year schools (and heed well the warnings above from those who are familiar with the hiring process at CCs), go for it!

[untenured]

If given the choice, I would stay keep VAPping for as long as possible for two reasons:

First, the community-college-as-stopgap route will be difficult because cc's are skilled at weeding out the applicants truly interested in the cc's mission versus applicants who want to use the cc as a stopgap for a more research oriented tenure-track job.  You'll have to totally retool yourself as a teaching-focused, not terribly research-interested candidate who really wants to work with disadvantaged and minority groups who admirably struggle with limited time and resources for an education.  Can you sell your top-flight, research-focused Ph.D. background in that way?  Cc's simply don't want applicants like you (or me) who can't fully and completely dedicate themselves to their mission.  This does not even consider the fact that your research agenda will come to a screeching halt as you try to navigate a 4/4 teaching load with time-demanding students in an institution that won't care one whit if you publish or not.

Second, cc experience will place an indelible taint on your research-oriented CV.  Irrationally, research-oriented search committees may see your cc experience as sign of weakness.  "You weren't good enough for any real university, so you got stuck teaching at an overgrown high school did you?"  The experience will implicate you as someone who just couldn't cut it in the job market.  You'd be damaged goods, or at least questionable goods, as it were.  Furthermore, you'll have to convince search committees that yes you took a cc job but you didn't really *want* a cc job and was just marking time to work at a research university.  This is just bad news all around, and should be done only in desperation.

I once asked the senior colleague who hired me at my current position (a flagship state R1) whether I would have been considered had I taken an earlier job in perfectly sound state college system (which I had seriously considered at one point).  My colleague, after a long pause and a stare implying I had just asked if the moon was made of cheese, answered unequivocally: "No."

So, unless there are no other options, keep VAPping.

Untenured

[dr_dre]

This does not even consider the fact that your research agenda will come to a screeching halt as you try to navigate a 4/4 teaching load with time-demanding students in an institution that won't care one whit if you publish or not.

My CC friends teach 5-5-2.

[zuzu_]

This does not even consider the fact that your research agenda will come to a screeching halt as you try to navigate a 4/4 teaching load with time-demanding students in an institution that won't care one whit if you publish or not.

My CC friends teach 5-5-2.

I'll raise you. I teach 6-6-3.
(I don't mind. Small class sizes, no more than three preps per semester, and mucho overload pay.)

[canadia]

Thread-jack (kinda)...

What about part-timing at well-paying cc's while doing doctoral work? My school's t.a. "stipend" was... well... insufficient..., so I would teach at local cc's. But I never took a TT job anywhere b/c I so believe in community colleges that I wouldn't want to use/abuse a TT line for my own gain.

[offthemarket]

In every department I've been in (SLAC, comprehensive, R1), in my field, it would be a mark of shame and it no way would a person from a cc make it to a 4-year institution.  It would simply say that this candidate has different priorities.

[untenured]

Thread-jack (kinda)...

What about part-timing at well-paying cc's while doing doctoral work? My school's t.a. "stipend" was... well... insufficient..., so I would teach at local cc's. But I never took a TT job anywhere b/c I so believe in community colleges that I wouldn't want to use/abuse a TT line for my own gain.

I wouldn't see a problem.  You have a valid reason that is almost self-evident from your CV.  Any doubt as to your commitment could be extinguished in your cover letter explaining the motivation -- you needed the money while working for your Ph.D..

Untenured

[canadia]

I wouldn't see a problem.  You have a valid reason that is almost self-evident from your CV.  Any doubt as to your commitment could be extinguished in your cover letter explaining the motivation -- you needed the money while working for your Ph.D..

Untenured

Whew.

In my cover letter "pedagogy paragraph" I usually cite teaching at cc's as molding research ideas. Let's face it: cc's are where we find all types of ethnic groups and the entire spectrum of social classes, which in the humanities almost always can be connected to the hottest, sexiest research topics nowadays: race, gender, class, transnational, etc.

The sub-altern speaks at community colleges. ;)

I wouldn't mind more imput so as to nuance the pros and cons of cc work...

[dr_dre]

In my cover letter "pedagogy paragraph" I usually cite teaching at cc's as molding research ideas.
/quote]

Doesn't that make it a "research paragraph"?

[samspade]

You people have confirmed all my worst fears. With this horrible history market, I decided to I had no choice but to apply for CC jobs, even though it is not my preferred career choice. But in this economy, what else can you do?