<DOC>
[109th Congress House Hearings]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access]
[DOCID: f:20420.wais]



    CHINA'S NEW REGULATIONS ON RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS: A PARADIGM SHIFT?

=======================================================================

                               ROUNDTABLE

                               before the

              CONGRESSIONAL-EXECUTIVE COMMISSION ON CHINA

                       ONE HUNDRED NINTH CONGRESS

                             FIRST SESSION

                               __________

                             MARCH 14, 2005

                               __________

 Printed for the use of the Congressional-Executive Commission on China


         Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.cecc.gov


                                 ______

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              CONGRESSIONAL-EXECUTIVE COMMISSION ON CHINA

                    LEGISLATIVE BRANCH COMMISSIONERS

Senate                               House

CHUCK HAGEL, Nebraska, Chairman       MEMBERS TO BE APPOINTED
SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas
GORDON SMITH, Oregon
JIM DeMINT, South Carolina
MEL MARTINEZ, Florida
MAX BAUCUS, Montana
CARL LEVIN, Michigan
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California
BYRON DORGAN, North Dakota

                                    

                     EXECUTIVE BRANCH COMMISSIONERS

                  STEPHEN J. LAW, Department of Labor
                 PAULA DOBRIANSKY, Department of State
                 GRANT ALDONAS, Department of Commerce

                David Dorman, Staff Director (Chairman)

               John Foarde, Staff Director (Co-Chairman)

                                  (ii)




                            C O N T E N T S

                              ----------                              
                                                                   Page

                               STATEMENTS

Spiegel, Mickey, senior researcher, Human Rights Watch, New York, 
  NY.............................................................     2
Bays, Daniel H., professor of history, head of the Asian studies 
  program, Calvin College, Grand Rapids, MI......................     6
Hamrin, Carol Lee, consultant and research professor, George 
  Mason University, Fairfax, VA..................................     9

                                APPENDIX
                          Prepared Statements

Spiegel, Mickey..................................................    26
Bays, Daniel H...................................................    28
Hamrin, Carol Lee................................................    29

                         Additional Submission

Statement submitted by Human Rights in China entitled, ``China's 
  New Regulations on Religious Affairs: A Paradigm Shift? '' 
  dated March 14, 2005...........................................    33

 
    CHINA'S NEW REGULATIONS ON RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS: A PARADIGM SHIFT?

                              ----------                              


                         MONDAY, MARCH 14, 2005

                            Congressional-Executive
                                       Commission on China,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The roundtable was convened, pursuant to notice, at 2 p.m., 
in room 2255, Rayburn House Office Building, John Foarde (staff 
director) presiding.
    Also present: Susan Weld, general counsel; Carl Minzner, 
senior counsel; Keith Hand, senior counsel; Steve Marshall, 
senior advisor; Kate Kaup, special advisor; Mark Milosch, 
special advisor; Rana Siu, U.S. Department of State; and Laura 
Mitchell, research associate.
    Mr. Foarde. Good afternoon, everyone. Welcome to this 
issues roundtable of the Congressional-Executive Commission on 
China.
    Since we gathered on Thursday last for our issues 
roundtable on public intellectuals in China, the Majority 
Leader of the Senate has chosen our Chairman for the 109th 
Congress and the Senate members of the Commission. The chairman 
is Senator Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, who was our co-chairman in 
the last Congress. So we are delighted to welcome our three 
panelists on behalf of Senator Hagel and the members of the 
CECC so far appointed, and to welcome all in the audience today 
to this issues roundtable, in which we are going to examine 
China's new regulation on religious affairs.
    This new regulation is important to the Commission because 
I think it is fair to say that every Member who has been 
appointed so far to the CECC has had among his or her 
priorities for membership on this Commission the monitoring of 
religious freedom in China and advocacy on these issues. So 
over three and a half years, we have done quite a number of not 
only full hearings of the Commission, but also roundtables on 
various aspects of China's legal and political regime to 
control religious belief and practice.
    This new regulation on religion, which became effective on 
March 1, has been hailed by Chinese officials and Chinese 
experts as something of a paradigm shift in the way that the 
government treats religion. One official was quoted in 
materials that we have seen in the Chinese language that the 
``new regulation sets clear limits on official exercise of 
power over religion, safeguards religious freedom, and moves 
from direct administrative control to a system of permitting 
self-government by religious groups.''
    But religious believers and practitioners and human rights 
organizations dispute these claims, arguing that the more 
detailed new regulation will in fact further limit the ability 
of religious believers to worship freely in China. Some critics 
charge that the government's goal really was a more efficient 
``rule by law'' rather than a protection of the right to 
religious belief and practice of the ``rule of law'' approach. 
They have also suggested that the details of the new regulation 
are less significant than some of the very unhelpful 
simultaneous acts of the government, such as the arrest of 
dozens of house church leaders right after the new rules were 
announced, and a generally harsher Communist Party policy, 
particularly in ethnic regions.
    To help us examine this new regulation and what it might 
mean, we have three distinguished panelists--two of them have 
been our guests in the past--to share their expertise with us, 
and one of them is new to testifying here at one of our staff 
panels. We are delighted to have all three of you, both the old 
friends and the new friend.
    I will introduce each, briefly, before they speak. Just as 
we have done over the last three and a half years at these 
issues roundtables, each panelist will have 10 minutes to make 
an opening presentation. I will let you know when you have 
about two minutes left. That is your signal to wrap things up. 
Inevitably, you will not get to all the points that you wish to 
make, but we hope that there will be time during the subsequent 
question and answer session for you to catch up any points that 
you did not get to discuss.
    Our first panelist this afternoon is Mickey Spiegel, a 
senior researcher at Human Rights Watch in New York, and an old 
friend and frequent contact of ours. Mickey has been working on 
China for Human Rights Watch since 1990. Trained as an 
anthropologist, she holds a Masters of Philosophy degree in 
anthropology from Columbia University. Among her recent 
writings are a chapter entitled, ``Control and Containment in 
the Reform Era'' in God and Caesar in China: Policy 
Implications of Church-State Tensions, 2004, edited by Jason 
Kindopp and Carol Hamrin. Mickey co-edited the March-April 2000 
Documents on Religion in China, 1980-1997: Central Government 
Policy (1), which is part of the Chinese Law & Government 
Series. Mickey has researched and written an enormous number of 
reports for Human Rights Watch on topics relating to religion 
in China, including, most recently, ``Trials of a Tibetan Monk: 
The Case of Tenzin Deleg'' as well as ``Dangerous Meditation,'' 
a report on repression of the Falun Gong. Her nine reports on 
religious regulation include the major work, ``China: State 
Control of Religion,'' published by Human Rights Watch in 1997.
    Mickey Spiegel, welcome. Over to you for 10 minutes.

 STATEMENT OF MICKEY SPIEGEL, SENIOR RESEARCHER, HUMAN RIGHTS 
                      WATCH, NEW YORK, NY

    Ms. Spiegel. As a senior researcher for Human Rights Watch, 
a private, independent human rights monitoring organization, I 
appreciate the opportunity to appear today before the 
Congressional-Executive Commission on China to present our 
perspective on the evolution of religious policy in China 
following the end of the Cultural Revolution from 1966-1997.
    From the time the Chinese Government rescinded the Mao-
imposed ban on all religious belief, it has steadily reinforced 
the structure of laws and regulations directing religious 
practice. The regulations that went into effect on March 1, 
2005 do not appear to be a break with tradition, but an attempt 
to tighten the state's control, codify Party policies, and 
strengthen the bureaucracy established to enforce them. The aim 
is twofold: stricter control and less arbitrariness.
    In 1982, the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist 
Party promulgated Document 19, ``The Basic Viewpoint and Policy 
on the Religious Question during Our Country's Socialist 
Period.'' Its principles continue to underlie religious policy 
in the People's Republic of China even today as we meet to 
consider the implications of the new State Council Decree, 
``Regulations on Religious Affairs,'' effective since March 1, 
2005.
    Document 19's original formulation was sparse: ``respect 
for and promotion of the freedom of religious belief,'' but it 
signaled a sea change. Promotion of freedom to choose to 
believe signaled an end to policies of repression which 
alienated believers and interfered with the state's ability to 
turn its full attention to, and to direct the attention of 
believers to, the mutual goal of rapid modernization. Respect 
for a variety of beliefs spoke to the state's determination to 
curb cadres who had been able, with impunity, to intimidate, 
harass, arrest, and torture believers.
    However, with the promulgation of the 1982 Chinese 
Constitution which followed hard on the heels of Document 19, 
the potential for limiting the full flowering of religious 
belief and practice became immediately obvious. Document 19 
limited freedom to believe to five major religions: Buddhism, 
Daoism, Islam, Catholicism, and post-denominational 
Protestantism. Article 36 of the Constitution limited state 
protection only to ``normal'' religious activities.
    The ambiguity of the term ``normal'' permitted a plethora 
of limits on religious freedom. What developing regulations 
implicitly allowed was considered normal; any other activity 
could be deemed abnormal, even by a local bureaucrat. As a 
Chinese official said some months ago, what was illegal was 
abnormal; what was abnormal was illegal. It did not get us very 
far. But such a formulation continued to make possible 
arbitrary rule by local fiat, something the central government 
was determined to disallow, even as it strengthened control 
over religious practice. At the same time, prohibition on the 
use of religion to disrupt public order signaled a concern, one 
that continues to this day, that hostile forces would use 
religion as a cover for fomenting subversion.
    Guidelines, such as those making ``patriotic'' 
organizations responsible for monitoring compliance with state 
policy, establishing a ``three-fix'' policy that limited 
evangelical practices and the use of lay religious leaders, and 
instituting a ``three-self'' policy that barred organizational 
ties to world religious bodies, gave way to emphasis on a 
``rule of law.'' That new emphasis culminated in 1991 in a 
policy directive that carried Document 19 a step further and is 
still the centerpiece of religious control. Document 6, 
``Circular on Some Problems Concerning the Further Improvement 
of Work on Religion'' mandated that every congregation, temple, 

monastery, mosque, and church had to register with the 
authorities. An unregistered group was, by definition, illegal, 
and its members subject to arrest. A group deemed ``legal'' 
opened itself to control of its personnel, religious materials, 
activities, membership, and finances.
    Jiang Zemin extended the impetus toward regulation of 
religious activity through law when, in 1993, he stated that 
religion must adapt itself to a socialist society. The 
imperative has been interpreted to mean that everything from 
the organization of rights and rituals, to underlying theology, 
to day-to-day management of personnel, materials, and 
activities, must meet the changing needs of society, as 
interpreted by its rulers.
    By 1994, regulations codified by the State Council 
specified the steps required to properly register and the right 
of rejection reserved to those bodies charged with monitoring 
compliance. Local regulations made still more explicit what 
legally registered organizations could or could not do. There 
was, however, still room for small groups operating discreetly 
in the shadows to continue to meet and worship. That small 
space, though still in existence in 1994, narrowed again in 
1999 when the Chinese Government, in response to the emergence 
of Falun Gong, further reserved for itself the right to 
determine, in the religions it recognized, what constituted 
orthodox belief and what was heterodox, and thus, illegal, and 
to further determine what belief structures could be classified 
as cults and thus, ipso facto, illegal.
    The regulations that went into effect on March 1, 2005, 
further codify the rules restraining religious practice in 
China and the bureaucratic mechanism used to reinforce those 
rules. That bureaucracy consists, in part, of the national-
level State Administration of Religious Affairs; a hierarchy of 
religious affairs bureaus in all administrative units such as 
provinces, townships, and counties; the Ministry of Public 
Security; and local police units.
    Several immediate problems assert themselves. The usual 
twin problems of undefined terminology and vaguely worded 
regulatory articles make it difficult to understand precisely 
what compliance requires and leave considerable leeway for 
national and local interpretation. For example, the problem 
remains of what is ``normal'' and what is not; nowhere is there 
an explanation of ``the lawful rights and interests of 
religious bodies, sites for religious activities and religious 
citizens;'' and the requirement that those same actors 
``safeguard unification of the country, unity of all 
nationalities, and stability of society'' (Article 3) leaves 
the state free to re-interpret the provision as the need arises 
and leaves religious practitioners no redress should they be 
charged with a violation. In addition, other than the specific 
requirement in Article 48 of the new regulations that the 
``Regulations on Administration of Sites for Religious 
Activities'' be repealed, laws and regulations remain in place 
that do not specifically target religious activities, but 
nevertheless have serious implications for religious 
expression. The 2005 regulations make no comments on these pre-
existing laws and regulations, nor do they suggest how their 
implementation will affect provincial 
regulations. The usual practice had been for provinces and 
other administrative areas to follow national templates in 
crafting regulations specific to their jurisdiction.
    The most problematic addition to prior regulatory regimes, 
and one that I believe clearly signals an increase in state 
control, is the requirement that a religious body--nowhere 
defined--``shall be registered in accordance with the 
provisions of the Regulations on Registration Administration of 
Associations.'' The change signals the need for the religious 
body to satisfy two bureaucracies, the Civil Affairs Ministry 
and the State Administration of Religious Affairs. The 
requirement not only adds to bureaucratic oversight, but in 
theory it requires inter alia a religious organization to have 
a government agency ``as a professional leading unit,'' 50 
members, full-time personnel, and if local, have ``activity 
funds totaling in excess of 30,000 yuan.'' Most important, the 
regulations state in Article 13(2), that an application may be 
rejected because one with a ``similar operational scope exists 
in the same administrative area.'' In other words, the state is 
given the power to decide how many mosques are enough.
    Several other provisions speak directly to an increase in 
state control: the requirement that the religious affairs 
department of the State Council approve educational institutes, 
which may reject an application on the grounds that sufficient 
institutes exist in a given locale; involvement of a national 
religious body in the selection of students who may go abroad 
for religious study; the obligatory involvement of three 
administrative levels before an application to prepare to 
establish a site for religious activities can be approved and 
the additional requirement that no application for registration 
can be made until construction is complete; apparent 
elimination of any gray area through which small local groups 
without a structure could use someone's home or shop as a 
meeting place where like-minded believers could quietly 
congregate; acceptance of ``guidance, supervision and 
inspection'' by ``relevant departments of the local people's 
government''; and restrictions on large-scale religious 
activities.
    An added worry grows out of the requirement in Article 27 
that religious personnel be ``determined qualified as such by a 
religious body.'' The stipulation brings to mind the ongoing 
``patriotic'' campaigns in Tibet and Xinjiang, during which 
clergy are compelled to examine themselves and their colleagues 
for inappropriate behavior or thought.
    One omission may--but only may--signal a positive policy 
change. Nowhere in the regulations is there reference to what 
belief systems qualify as religions. The omission may signal 
that additional belief systems will be added to the short list 
as apparently has been the case for some aspects of popular 
religion. Conversely, it may signal only that the government 
will continue to be the sole arbiter of what is a religion and 
what is not.
    I am reluctant to consider regularizing religious belief, 
practice, or organization as a positive development. The 
premise seems to be that communities of believers have the 
potential to challenge Beijing's rule throughout China, though 
more so in Tibet and Xinjiang, where religion serves as an 
identity marker and supports independence sentiment.
    I believe the hope is that the new regulations will lay the 
groundwork for religious organizations to perform necessary 
social welfare functions that the state itself cannot support--
hospitals, clinics, old-age homes, senior centers. But I 
suspect that China's leadership has crafted the regulations in 
a way intended to further isolate religious belief and practice 
from life's day-to-day minutiae. That emphatically is not 
freedom of religious belief, even as defined in the dry 
language of international human rights doctrines.
    No, the March 1, 2005 regulations are, at best, a cosmetic 
cover-up.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Spiegel appears in the 
appendix.]
    Mr. Foarde. You were remarkably disciplined, and I 
appreciate it very much. We will have a chance to reach some of 
the material that you did not cover during the Q&A.
    Next, I would like to go on and recognize this afternoon a 
new friend, Professor Daniel Bays, Professor of History and the 
head of the Asian Studies Program at Calvin College. Professor 
Bays is the former chair of the History Department at the 
University of Kansas at Lawrence. He has directed major 
research projects, funded by the Henry Luce Foundation and the 
Pew Charitable Trusts, on the history of Christianity in China 
and American missionary movements. He is the editor of 
``Christianity in China: From the Eighteenth Century to the 
Present,'' a 1996 volume published by Stanford University 
Press; with Grant Wacker, he also was the editor of the book, 
``The Foreign Missionary Enterprise at Home: Explorations in 
North American Cultural History,'' a 2003 volume published by 
the University of Alabama Press; and is also the author of 
``Chinese Protestant Christianity Today,'' an article in The 
China Quarterly, No. 174, 2003.
    Professor Bays, thanks very much for being with us.

STATEMENT OF DANIEL H. BAYS, PROFESSOR OF HISTORY, HEAD OF THE 
    ASIAN STUDIES PROGRAM, CALVIN COLLEGE, GRAND RAPIDS, MI

    Mr. Bays. Thank you very much. I am honored to be here to 
participate.
    As I look at them and read them over, these regulations do 
not constitute a ``paradigm shift,'' especially when, at the 
same time, as you point out in your introduction, there are 
major cases of persecution continuing.
    In late February in Harbin, Heilongjiang province, there 
was a raid by several different types of security personnel, 
and Chinese officials ultimately kicked several foreigners out 
of the country and temporarily detained 150 or so Chinese 
pastors and church workers.
    Carol Hamrin mentions near the end of her paper some things 
that have been going on since last fall as well, or last 
summer: a purge from the Party of people who are discovered to 
be religious believers; a tightening of campus Christian 
activities at colleges and universities; and a freeze on the 
creation of what up until recently was the rapidly expanding 
number of university-level study centers that looked at 
Christianity or other religions. That is going on at the same 
time that these new regulations are going into effect.
    Like Mickey Spiegel, I believe that the purpose is not to 
enhance believers' rights or their security to practice their 
religion. There might be a side effect, some side effect which 
is not all bad, for believers to know what the state is going 
to do if it regularizes its supervisory behavior. But I think 
that the regularization of control is to enhance state and 
Party control. So, the purpose is to reduce arbitrariness, but 
for the purpose of better total control.
    Like Mickey, I noted, as in the past with such laws, great 
problems of vagueness of terms, no definition of them. For 
example what is ``normal religious behavior,'' or ``religious 
extremism? '' Still, I found some interesting features, 
interesting to me as an historian. For example, Article 38 
talks about how state functionaries can be disciplined for 
abuse of power, but it does not indicate whether that could 
include Party members. Does ``state functionaries'' include 
Party members? We are not told.
    Article 33 makes it clear that believers are entitled to 
fair compensation for confiscated property when their old 
church has to be demolished. In the past, there have been some 
cases of real exploitation and unfairness of the compensation. 
This Article 33 makes it clear that that should not be done.
    There is a reference in the regulations that relates to 
religious groups carrying out social service activities. And 
foreign donations can be used for social service as well. That 
may indicate that the state is not doing very well in these 
responsibilities, which we know is the case. The state is not 
doing well in social service activities for its own population.
    I notice that there runs through the document a consistent 
thread of concern about religious groups coming under the sway 
of foreign forces. That could be, of course, Muslims, Tibetans, 
Catholics, and even Protestants. It applies to anybody.
    Overall, my conclusion, in general, is that this is not a 
``paradigm shift.'' This is sort of a clean-up by bureaucrats. 
I always think of a comment from someone that Chan Kim-Kwong 
and Allan Hunter interviewed. I think it was Chan who 
interviewed a fairly high-ranking bureaucrat before their book 
came out in 1993 on Protestantism in contemporary China. He 
said, ``These people who are always at us for more rights--
reporters, political organizers, and religious believers--they 
have all kinds of claims, but we just see them as an 
administrative problem.''
    As a historian, this document reminds me a lot of the 
behavior and assumptions of pre-Communist Chinese political 
regimes, e.g., the compulsion on registration of venues and 
licensing of clerics, a deep fear of heterodoxy which then, as 
now, is xiejiao. It was translated as ``heterodoxy'' in the old 
days; now it is ``evil cult.'' Absolute paranoia about 
religious forces becoming politically subversive, as in Falun 
Gong.
    Actually, there are some Protestant-related groups, sort of 
offshoots of Protestantism, who are pretty off-the-wall and are 
potential candidates for anti-state rebellious behavior. That 
is one of the weaknesses of the Protestant scene, I think, in 
China today.
    I have a few other related observations, some along the 
lines of religious believers dealing with state control. 
Thinking of laws that affect religion and religious believers, 
at some point one would think that people will start to realize 
that the laws should, and can, protect citizens as well as 
being instruments of the state. There were a few cases in the 
last years starting to show this.
    John Pomfret, who was for a few years the correspondent for 
the Washington Post in Beijing, had an interesting article a 
couple of years ago on how some of the local lawyers who are 
believers--I think it was in Fuzhou--sued the state for not 
letting their churches have Sunday schools for kids, and making 
the legal argument that the regulations against that were not 
laws, but simply guidelines. In Ian Buruma's book, ``Bad 
Elements,'' there are a couple of cases of very brave Chinese 
lawyers trying to push the envelope on protecting citizens, 
including some religious believers.
    Other aspects which come to mind from recent reading are 
all the Web sites being shut down by the state, and the state 
itself says some of those are religious. We are not sure how 
many of them, but there must be quite a few if some are being 
shut down.
    Protestant groups in particular, about which I know the 
most, continue to refuse to register with authorities and 
continue to create their own non-state-sanctioned training 
schools and programs for their leaders, and print material that 
they are not supposed to, and often have extensive, 
unauthorized contacts with Christian groups outside of China.
    A few comments just to conclude this part of it, just 
laying out some ideas. Laws aside, overall, where are we headed 
in terms of religious groups, especially, say, Protestants, in 
terms of the future? I have a hunch that the growth of an urban 
and better-educated, better-off class of religious believers, 
urban Protestants, may result in more security for the church. 
It is harder to beat up on better-off urban residents than it 
is on rural people. Will that result in elements of a Chinese 
civil society, with believers showing a sense of civic duty and 
responsibility and a desire to participate in local 
decisionmaking? That is possible, I think. I think that 
intellectuals can play a role in this, too.
    It is possible that, in the future, there will be these 
people who are referred to as ``culture Christians,'' some of 
them religious believers, others simply appreciative of what 
they think Christianity might do by way of public social values 
to address the problems of corruption and ineffectiveness of 
government, and that sort of thing. They might play a role in 
establishing an urban Christianity.
    Looking far ahead and making a wild guess about the future, 
there may be in effect now a long-term pattern of the state's 
gradually and selectively declining control over society, 
because it just cannot control everything, and some elements of 
society gradually growing more assertive and claiming their 
rights if they can conceive of law as giving them rights, as 
well as the law giving the state a tool. It might be easier for 
religious believers to do that, to be more assertive and to try 
to claim their rights with this new religion law or that may be 
wishful thinking, because it is possible that the 
interpretation and implementation of this law, or these 
regulations, rather, might keep us right where we are in terms 
of practical freedom of religious belief.
    So, with that I will conclude and wait for our discussion 
later.
    [The prepared statement of Mr. Bays appears in the 
appendix.]
    Mr. Foarde. Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Bays.
    Our third panelist today is also an old friend, Dr. Carol 
Lee Hamrin, currently a consultant and Research Professor at 
George Mason University here in the area. Carol's long career 
in public service includes 25 years in the U.S. State 
Department, where I had the privilege of being her colleague 
and benefited very much from her work as Senior China Research 
Specialist. Dr. Hamrin currently is a Chinese affairs 
consultant and, as I said, a Research Professor at George Mason 
University in Fairfax, VA. She is also a senior associate with 
the Global China Center in Charlottesville, VA, and advises 
other nonprofit organizations supporting social services in 
China. Her current research interests include research and 
training projects for the development of the nonprofit sector 
in China, and cultural change, human rights, and religious 
policy. Recent publications include ``Advancing Freedom of 
Religion and Belief in a Global China: A New Framework,'' which 
is a report that she put together for the China Task Force of 
the Council on Faith & International Affairs in 2004. We are 
looking forward to reading ``God and Caesar in China: Policy 
Implications of Church-State Tensions,'' which she co-edited 
with Jason Kindopp from Brookings.
    Carol, over to you.

         STATEMENT OF CAROL LEE HAMRIN, CONSULTANT AND 
    RESEARCH PROFESSOR, GEORGE MASON UNIVERSITY, FAIRFAX, VA

    Ms. Hamrin. Thank you, John. I am always happy if I can be 
of help to the Commission. I think your work is very important. 
I think you have done a remarkable job of giving Washington a 
deeper, more complex understanding of the change going on in 
China, so keep it up.
    I view trends in religious affairs as part of a broader 
trajectory in state-society relations that might be called 
``outgrowing socialism.'' Following a pattern set by the 
economic reforms, the state still protects and gives special 
support to select social institutions that are granted a 
monopoly for certain functions--what we might call state-
organized institutions [SOIs], to reflect similarities to the 
state-owned enterprises [SOEs]--while also allowing small-
scale, private, civic institutions to spring up in order to 
meet demand. These smaller and weaker organizations, 
nonetheless, just like private businesses in China, have 
greater vitality and flexibility, and gradually put competitive 
pressure on the state agencies. I think that kind of 
competition is good.
    Thus, the unregistered religious organizations, through 
steady, positive resistance, have greatly outpaced, in growth 
and popularity, those belonging to the five official 
monopolies, the so-called ``patriotic'' religious associations; 
this, despite the state's unwillingness to grant them 
legitimacy and its periodic efforts to force them to register 
through the monopoly associations. Similarly, more than half of 
the three million nonprofit organizations of other types in 
China do not register or find loopholes for registering in some 
other way to gain maximum autonomy.
    The lack of legitimacy for the old state-run social system 
and this widespread passive resistance to it is evidence to me 
of a more equal relationship developing between the state and 
society in general as the state is forced to down-size and a 
pluralistic society 
develops.
    So the state can no longer easily suppress or control 
social organizations, and even finds them quite useful to 
lighten its burden at various levels in providing social 
services; thus, they have to begin to address their concerns in 
order to get compliance with the regulations.
    I am just setting that forth as a comparative context for 
analyzing these new state regulations on religious affairs. I 
should 
emphasize, all of us feel like we are just taking a first cut 
at understanding these and their implications. This is not the 
final word, by any means.
    Compared with previous regulations that focused on the 
registration and operation of religious sites, these new 
regulations are an improvement in the sense that they are both 
comprehensive and transparent. One reason I think this is 
important, is that the central government can no longer say, 
``Well, those abuses are due to those local officials who do 
not know what they are doing.'' I mean, these are now State 
Council level, not just Religious Affairs Bureau level, 
regulations, so the central government is accountable for 
enforcing them.
    The new rules are detailed, with 48 articles, and 
systematic in addressing religious affairs. I would say that 
they do go a ways toward defining what is ``normal'' by listing 
all the things that are legal and approved. They do not define 
clearly the demarcation point, of course, between ``normal'' 
and ``abnormal,'' other than registered or not registered.
    I think there is a discernible trend in the regulations for 
the state to step back from micro-management of religious 
affairs to a more general oversight position, giving somewhat 
greater autonomy and authority to authorized religious 
associations. This is true of other regulations for other 
social organizations. But I would say that this ``paradigm 
shift,'' if we want to call it that, took place in the 1990s, 
not with these regulations. There was a round of regulations in 
the early and late 1990s, and now there is another round of 
regulations for social organizations, including religious 
organizations, that is sort of an update. They are more 
detailed, more 
systematic, and they are an update, basically, on the rules. 
These regulations now have the highest level, State Council, 
legitimation for certain kinds of practices that have actually 
been won through the perseverance of religious adherents who 
started doing things, and that became a de facto part of the 
rules. Now they are endorsed at the highest level. For example, 
inter-provincial meetings. I mean, I did not even know there 
were such things allowed, but they have taken place, so now 
they are just slipped in here as things that are now listed as 
normal. So, there are a few things like that that are 
improvements.
    However, most of these practices could already have been 
found scattered in pre-existing provincial regulations or the 
implementing guidelines, as Mickey and Dan have pointed out. 
So, in a sense, these regulations are more of a snapshot of de 
facto practices in this area than any step toward more 
democratic practices that would meet international standards. 
They fall far short of the type of legislation required to 
protect constitutional rights, or even improve constitutional 
rights, that would be expected of China after signing the U.N. 
Covenant for Civil and Political Rights. I think everybody can 
be disappointed they did not go much further toward where they 
need to be.
    Note, the full meaning and import of these regulations will 
not be clear until the implementing guidelines are available. 
Usually that takes months, but since there is a lot of training 
already under way of religious affairs officials, perhaps they 
already do have those guidelines, and we just have not read 
them. Mickey has heard about the handbook that was prepared for 
religious affairs officials, so maybe when we see a copy of 
that we will know more.
    However, I do think that legal status still will only be 
granted to religious groups, not local bodies of believers, 
through membership in official religious associations. These 
regulations all talk about religious organizations, and by that 
they mean social organizations, membership organizations, not 
the local, independent congregations. So, I think that is 
something we need to really watch closely.
    The most important unknown, perhaps, is whether the state 
will allow new religious associations to develop and be 
registered and operate or whether they are going to stick with 
their current five, or maybe add a couple more. That will be 
important to watch for.
    The cautious nature of these regulations is similar to 
others recently implemented, and regulations being reviewed for 
updates in the social sector. There are a lot more regulations 
that now apply, tax and auditing rules, the donation law, and 
so forth, so it is a much more complex situation.
    But I would say we then have the good news. There is an 
intent to treat religious organizations equally with other 
social organizations as a normal part of Chinese society and 
culture instead of a special kind of ideological, political 
threat that needs to be eliminated. So, we are on the right 
track that way.
    The bad news is that all social organizations are still 
highly restricted under the dual management system, which this 
regulation echoes. I will not go into all of those onerous 
requirements for registration, the quotas that Mickey has 
mentioned, and so forth. But I would say that, even though 
there is suspicion of foreign involvement with all social 
organizations, there still is even more such suspicion for 
religious organizations. So, there is still no level playing 
field there. Religious affairs are required to be independent 
and self-governing, prohibiting any foreign domination, 
``domination'' being undefined; and it seems to me that these 
kinds of barricades are anachronistic at a time when foreign-
invested and foreign-run companies are generating more than 
half the value of all Chinese exports.
    But in any case, I would say, too, that we need to see 
whether the current patriotic organizations revise their 
constitutions and rules to comply with the somewhat more 
moderate language in these regulations, because there are a lot 
of internal requirements for members of these associations that 
are even less close to international norms.
    So I would say the most welcome part of these regulations--
which is their intent, apparently--is to reduce arbitrariness 
and abuses by local implementing officials. If this nationwide 
training includes the police as well as religious officials and 
legal officials, I think that something good can come of that. 
Hopefully the content is positive and provides more constraints 
on their arbitrariness.
    The most important bottom-line concluding thought that I 
would offer is that I think these regulations, along with those 
for other social organizations, show that the state is under 
both internal and external pressure to regularize or normalize 
its relations with religious believers. Now, of course, they 
would prefer to achieve that via a relationship of control and 
top-down edict, but they know it is not going to happen. They 
had to take into account wide consultations, at least of the 
official religious groups. There are no longer just purely 
bureaucratic interest groups drafting and giving ideas and 
doing research in this area. There are academic groups and the 
grassroots religious organizations and international players 
who make their views known as we are today, and all of that is 
starting to get into the hopper, putting pressure on the 
government to keep moving in the direction of recognizing the 
rights of believers.
    So I think maybe this is the beginning rather than the end. 
There is hard bargaining ahead, perhaps eventually leading to 
more equal negotiating to protect the rights of the people at 
the grassroots.
    [The prepared statement of Ms. Hamrin appears in the 
appendix.]
    Mr. Foarde. Carol, thank you very much. Thanks to all three 
of our panelists for presentations rich in themes and material 
for us to take up in the next few minutes in our question and 
answer session.
    Before we begin that, I would just say to those of you in 
our audience this afternoon who have not signed up for our 
information list on our Web site, to please visit our Web site 
at www.cecc.gov  and sign yourself up for the periodic e-mail 
announcements about our hearings and roundtables, press 
releases, and other materials related to the Commission's 
mandate.
    I would like to go on now to the question and answer 
session. We have been conducting these roundtables over the 
last three and a half years pretty much in the same way. Each 
member of our staff panel will get about five minutes to ask a 
question and hear the answer. Normally, we ask our staff panel 
to address the question either to a specific panelist, or to 
the group in general. Then if any of the other panelists have a 
comment to make on it, we are glad to hear their views. We will 
keep going until we run out of steam, or until 3:30, whichever 
comes first.
    So let me exercise the prerogative of the chair and begin 
the questioning by addressing a question really to all three of 
you.
    It strikes me from what you have said, that given the huge 
growth that we have seen in religious belief and practice, both 
in registered churches and in unregistered groups of both 
Protestants, Catholics, and others over the last, say, 10 
years, 15 years, or longer, why would the government and the 
Party bother with a new religious regulation, given that the 
dynamism, it seems to me, is very much in the unregistered 
groups? Why try to control them at all? What is the motive for 
doing that?
    Ms. Hamrin. I have been thinking about this recently and 
was struck by a clause in something I read, the term ``the zone 
of indifference.'' I think maybe in the 1980s the state was 
retreating from its total involvement in every aspect of the 
economy and society because it cannot possibly run everything, 
manage everything, administer everything. With the 
decentralization to lower levels of government, a lot of 
responsibilities and authority were just hived off and sent 
down, and so the central government did not have to worry about 
it.
    The problem is, however, that local governments have 
started to pursue their own interests, not complying with 
national interests. I think that we are seeing, since the 
1990s, a recentralization of central authority in many sectors, 
including the economy. But the government is trying to use new 
mechanisms, such as fiscal and monetary policy rather than the 
state planning agency in the economy, and for social 
organizations, an effort to use these regulations rather than 
just policies sent down to cadres to apply as they wish. So 
with the concern about corruption in the last few years and the 
new, younger leadership clearly making an effort to get a 
handle on it, or at least to slow down the growth of it, we 
have got anti-corruption efforts of a number of different 
types.
    I would say that perhaps these regulations, and the others 
for foundations and social organizations, are part of that 
effort--to try to get better implementation of policy at lower 
levels to reduce the levels of corruption and abuse that are 
arousing widespread social outbursts. I mean, there has been 
massive social unrest in certain cities over small incidents, 
really, but it shows the pent-up anger in the populace.
    Mr. Foarde. Useful. Thank you. Somebody else? Mickey.
    Ms. Spiegel. I think another piece of it has to do partly 
with what Carol said, but partly with the need of the central 
government to insist that there is a rule of law in China.
    In almost every realm, in terms of publications, in terms 
of religion, in terms of social organization, there is a need 
to craft something that will appear to be a rule of law that 
will partly will solve some of the central leadership's 
internal problems, but will also be crafted in a way that 
international organizations will buy. I think that is a big 
piece of what is happening here.
    I also think that in other fields there is tension between 
people within the ranks, not necessarily of the central 
leadership, but within the ranks of people involved in crafting 
policy and in creating policy in China. The tension has been 
between those who are trying to push the envelope and those who 
are basically hard-liners. I think one of the things that the 
government is trying to do here, is to integrate these two, or 
to monitor the tension. The leadership needs to pay attention 
to both wings or both extremes. I think, that accounts in part 
for why the regulations are, in many respects, as vague as they 
are. How do you satisfy both constituencies? So, I think that 
is another piece of what is happening here. But there is, 
clearly--and I agree with Carol--a felt need on the part of the 
central government to solidify its hold over the whole issue.
    If you look at some of the local regulations--and I admit, 
I have looked at them over the years but I have not gone back 
and looked at them in the last couple of weeks--there is a 
major difference. There is a template, and that template is 
adhered to in many respects. But there is a major difference in 
the regulations promulgated for certain areas.
    The obvious ones, of course, are Tibet and Xinjiang, where 
the regulations are much stricter and where there has been a 
concerted effort to re-educate cadres, re-educate believers, 
and re-educate religious leaders.
    So, I think, but I cannot be certain, that some of what has 
been tried out in those areas is going to find its way, maybe, 
into these new regulations when they are eventually put into 
practice. Maybe the terms will be a little bit softer, but I 
think the practices will be there.
    Mr. Foarde. Good. Thank you. Let me now recognize Susan 
Roosevelt Weld, the general counsel of the Commission staff, to 
pick up the questioning. Susan.
    Ms. Weld. Thanks a lot, John.
    When I think about the actual impact of the new religious 
legislation that is coming out of China, I wonder whether the 
legislation might say one thing while Party policy might say 
something entirely different.
    Do these regulations add significant predictability to 
believers' lives so they will now know what will happen if they 
worship in certain places and in certain ways? Do they add 
significant predictability as to how the religious affairs 
officials and local police will treat them? This is an 
important part of what ``rule of law'' means, in one sense?
    Mr. Bays. I think it might. I think it is Article 38 that 
says state functionaries can be punished or disciplined if they 
abuse or mistreat religious believers. If that actually 
happened a few times, it might help some local religious 
believers' confidence. Of course, they might then step out and 
do something that they think they have the right to do and get 
clobbered in their local area. But if that provision, that 
Article 38 were to be extensively implemented and publicized by 
the higher levels of government and a few cadres actually 
punished for beating up on believers or arresting them, fining 
them, extorting money from them, that might make believers' 
lives a little more predictable and a little more pleasant.
    Ms. Hamrin. That is a really good question. It just made me 
think that we should remember, from a Chinese perspective, 
these are rules for a certain sector. These are rules for 
religious believers and religious officials. They are not rules 
for everybody. This is not a law to protect religious belief 
for everybody in China. Therefore, you will have other things 
going on in other sectors of society that contradict the 
moderate tone, at least, of these rules. So for example, if you 
have a Propaganda Department campaign to foster atheism and 
materialism in the media and the school system, well, that is 
for everybody else, but it is discriminatory against religious 
belief. It privileges atheism over religious belief. If you 
have an Organization Department campaign to winnow out 
religious believers from Communist Party membership roles, 
these rules are not for them. If you have the Education 
Department instructions to put a freeze on the development of 
the religious study centers and the more careful attention and 
reporting on materials that you are translating, publishing, or 
people that you are interacting with, well, most of these 
people are Party members. So, again, these are religious 
researchers, they are not religious believers, so these rules 
are not for them. I think we have to keep that 
compartmentalization in mind in Chinese culture.
    Mr. Foarde. Let me now pass the questioning on to our 
colleague, Kate Kaup, who joins us this year as a special 
advisor during her sabbatical year from her associate 
professorship at Furman University in Greenville, SC.
    Ms. Kaup. Thanks, John. Thank you very much to all the 
panelists for being here.
    As you all have noted, these regulations, in many ways, are 
not brand new and represent a systemization of existing 
regulations, or as Carol called them, a ``snapshot of existing 
regulations.'' Since these newest regulations have not really 
been tested yet over the last two weeks, I was wondering if you 
could very briefly--I know it is a big question--talk about how 
well religious freedoms that have already been provided for in 
earlier regulations have been observed by the authorities. 
Particularly, maybe you could mention how well freedom of 
religious belief has been protected in Xinjiang and Tibet. I 
said it was a big question.
    Ms. Spiegel. It is difficult in Xinjiang and Tibet. There 
has definitely been a hardening of attitudes in both areas. In 
many ways, I think the Chinese Government, the Communist Party, 
have succeeded in winning some of those battles. The problem 
is, of course, that you have religious belief and religious 
identity intertwined with movements toward more autonomy or 
independence.
    Now in Xinjiang government officials use the term 
``religious extremism,'' which is simply a way of saying, ``if 
you are a devout Muslim you are probably a terrorist,'' so we 
had better be careful. Really, it has gone that far. The 
Chinese Government just made another statement about the 
issues.
    What has happened in both areas--and, again, slightly 
differently in each because you have a monastic situation in 
one and mosques in the other--is total secular control of 
religion: the organization, the finances, the personnel, the 
materials, educational systems, can children receive religious 
instruction. There are very specific regulations. It is not 
simply left to reading between the lines.
    In Tibet and in Xinjiang, there are very specific 
regulations about what might happen to a child who somehow 
advertises that he or she is a religious believer. As I have 
said already, I think a part of what has been tried in Tibet 
and Xinjiang may find its way into other provinces. While you 
do not have the same situation, this push for autonomy or 
independence, maybe there was a testing out of ways to control 
religion. I see some of that reflected in the new regulations, 
certainly in training of personnel.
    For example, in Xinjiang, there was a two-year campaign, 
imams--I cannot remember the numbers off-hand--were subject to 
very intense patriotic education campaigns. They were 
reminiscent of the old criticism, self-criticism method where 
you had to think about your own thoughts and your own 
activities and criticize what somebody else did. You had to 
write a critique of yourself and a critique of the process. It 
was a very intense process. I would not be surprised to see 
more of that happening in other areas.
    The way I read the new regulations, that is implied. It is 
certainly not set out, but it is implied. That is, I think, one 
of the problems with these regulations. A lot is implied and we 
do not know how it is going to play out.
    We are still seeing, from recent testimony of people from 
Tibetan areas, not simply in the TAR, the same kinds of intense 
pressure on believers. People are leaving because, as they say, 
what is left is not religion. Monks say, ``we are told what to 
believe, we are told what to say, we are told how to say it, 
and if we do not do it in that way, we are out--expelled from 
the monastery--and we cannot go anyplace else to practice our 
religion the way we want.''
    Mr. Foarde. Would either of the other panelists like to 
address that? Yes. Please, Carol, go ahead.
    Ms. Hamrin. I would say, among the Han Chinese, that the 
further down in the system you go, the further away from the 
emperor you are, the more there has been a remarkable amount of 
freedom for the registered groups. They have been growing by 
leaps and bounds. They have been building new churches and 
having larger scale meetings, and having foreigners coming in, 
preaching and teaching, sending people overseas for study, and 
more and more materials being published, not just scriptures, 
but other materials. They have also been opening bookstores. 
Someone recently sent me the catalogue of a couple of Christian 
bookstores in small-sized cities, which of course are still 
large to us, like Hangzhou or elsewhere, where these were 
bookstores not connected to a church, but just had a lot of 
material available.
    So, I think that regulations at the top and personnel 
appointed at the top by the government is one thing, and we 
should always look at the bottom up perspective as well. I do 
think that the recentralization, though, this effort to try to 
get a handle on what had been a larger and larger zone of 
indifference, has rolled back earlier progress in certain 
areas.
    Personnel is one of the big problem areas, and theology and 
doctrine, is another. I think in the past, the government was 
paying the most attention to organizational structure, 
registration of worship sites. But more and more, the 
government has been promoting certain kinds of theological 
changes and campaigns, even in the Protestant circle, that are 
clearly intended to try to get rid of ``supernatural'' 
elements, ``superstitious'' beliefs, and focus on ethics and 
social service, to do something useful to society and forget 
the rest of it. I do think that is not a good trend.
    Ms. Spiegel. I think one other thing that has been 
mentioned in passing, but that is very important, is concern 
about large meetings and meetings that go across discrete 
administrative boundaries.
    That, interestingly enough, was a piece of what Tenzin 
Deleg was charged with--not necessarily charged with, because 
we do not know what the charges were; nobody has ever seen the 
indictment or the verdict--but that was something that he had 
done that he had been warned about.
    We are seeing that in other places, too, this need to get 
permission to come together, to have a religious rally. That is 
something that I never saw before--in any of the regulations, 
that you had to get permission to go beyond a discrete small 
administrative area. Maybe you did, Carol.
    I think that is an area to watch because I think it speaks 
to the fear of religion. It speaks to the fear that I think the 
Chinese Government and the Communist Party have, that another 
organization somehow is going to co-opt--and I think that would 
be their words--the hearts and minds of the Chinese population. 
I personally do not see it that way. I think you can be a vey 
good Chinese citizen and still be a fervent religious believer.
    Mr. Foarde. Certainly we have heard that from some of the 
Chinese pastors that have come to visit us over the last year 
or longer, so I agree.
    Let me go on and continue our questioning this afternoon 
with our colleague from the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, 
and Labor, at the U.S. Department of State, Rana Siu. Rana, 
please.
    Ms. Siu. Thanks, John. Thanks to the panelists for your 
presentations.
    Compared to the last question, my question is much more 
specific. I would like you to talk about there being a shift 
from focusing on sites to groups? Do the new regulations give 
legal protections to activities of officially recognized 
religious groups to hold religious services in places other 
than at an officially-recognized church? When I mention this, I 
am wondering, could an official church sponsor ``house church'' 
services?
    Ms. Spiegel. That is a very good question. I personally do 
not have any answer. I think that is one of the most confusing 
aspects of these regulations, what is a group or an 
organization.
    At one point, reading it--we were discussing this before 
the roundtable, and I do not think anybody agrees with me--it 
seems that an organization has to have a physical structure, 
that it actually has to have a building, has to have a church, 
or a mosque, or a temple, a structure.
    It was not clear how venues or sites relate to 
organizations. It was not clear if they have to have a 
structure. It was not clear if there is room for the house 
church. If somebody knows the answer to that or has other 
thoughts on it, I would be very interested to hear them because 
I think that is the most confusing part of the regulations.
    Mr. Foarde. Let us give Dan Bays a try.
    Mr. Bays. My conclusion is that what freedoms are 
guaranteed are still for the venue. A floating house church 
would not be acceptable as coming under this regulation. If the 
house church were to formally affiliate with a registered 
church, then of course it would become a meeting point of that 
registered church and that would probably be all right. I think 
it would have to self-register and become a meeting point of a 
registered church, I think. But we were talking about this at 
lunch as well, and it is difficult to figure out.
    Ms. Hamrin. In looking through these regulations and 
comparing the social organization regulations with these 
religious organization regulations, I became more aware that 
when they talk about religious organizations, they mean 
membership associations.
    So only the associations, not the local individual group or 
congregation, can be a legal personage and can do any of these 
things. The sites that are registered as part of an association 
can do certain things, but there is no independent way to 
become a legal personage to do these things on your own. That 
is my understanding, that we can all test out.
    I do think that the shift of focus to talk about these 
religious organizations does suggest that, once they are 
registered, once they are legal, that they could then apply for 
special kinds of meetings, large-scale meetings that cannot fit 
into a specific churchground. This would be possible if you are 
registered, you are legal, and you go to the police and you can 
apply.
    But this is the biggest challenge that the urban house 
church people face. They cannot just go meet in a field. They 
really have trouble finding places to meet, certainly in large 
numbers. I think there may be a shrinking zone of indifference 
here. I was told by friends about a couple thousand people who 
had rented a hall in an auditorium, for a Christmas Eve 
service. That has been going on for a number of years.
    This time, though, the security people cutoff all the 
electricity and there was no heat and no light, and they were 
sitting there in the dark and people were nervous that it was 
going to have a bad ending if there was disruption of social 
order, and so forth.
    But actually, they stayed and continued with flashlights, 
and left peacefully and kind of made a statement, saying in 
effect ``We will not be intimidated.'' But I do think that is a 
critical concern.
    Mr. Foarde. Thank you.
    Let me recognize Steve Marshall, who is our colleague who 
handles Tibet issues and works on political prisoner issues for 
us. Steve.
    Mr. Marshall. I would like to thank each of you for 
insightful observations on a very complex subject. I would like 
to return to the Tibetan Buddhism question. I will direct this, 
first, to Mickey, but I would appreciate anything that I can 
hear from the other panelists.
    Tibetan Buddhism is based very much on the monastic 
community, and that community is essentially about association, 
assembly, and education. The lay community looks to the 
monastic community for guidance, and the contact between them 
is, again, all about association, assembly, and education.
    These new regulations appear to be more finely drawn with 
respect to association, assembly, and education. Mickey, what 
impact do you think that might have on the already delicate 
situation between the lay and monastic community with respect 
to Tibetan Buddhism? Thanks.
    Ms. Spiegel. First of all, I think, Steve, you probably 
have a better answer to that question than I have, but I will 
try to answer it. It is hard for me to envision the regulations 
pertaining to religion in Tibet, to Buddhism in Tibet, to the 
organization of a monastery or a nunnery becoming any worse 
than they are now. But I have said the same about other issues, 
and time and time again I have had to say, ``Well, why didn't I 
think about that? '' It probably can get worse.
    From what we are hearing, the monastic community, whether 
it is 200 people in a monastery or 20 people in a monastery, 
the 
attempt really is to cordon it off. The monastery is here and 
lay people are elsewhere.
    There is certainly no interaction between children and the 
monastic community. If anything, there is probably a tightening 
of 
restrictions on visiting a monastery. Monasteries, more and 
more, as you know, have become tourist sites. For many people, 
there is no recognition of it as a sacred place.
    One of the changes that has happened in the monastic 
community is that education even for those who are members of a 
monastery has become watered down. This is one of the 
complaints you hear over and over again, that, yes, I am a monk 
and I am associated with this particular monastery, but there 
is nobody to teach me. There has been such a crack-down on the 
teachers, therefore, there is a real need to try to go 
someplace else to get a religious education. So if you have 
that kind of situation, how does the religion spread to the lay 
community? Then, there are very specific rules for the lay 
community.
    It is a unclear whether it is simple cadres who obviously 
cannot have pictures of the Dalai Lama and cannot have a place 
of worship in their houses. How far that restriction extends to 
the lay population, is unclear. The rules appear fuzzy and 
nobody is exactly clear what they are.
    I would refer back to the Tenzin Deleg case. From the 
research that we did, one of the major problems at the 
authorities faced in relation to him, was the extent of his 
influence in the community. I believe, that kind of influence 
is something the Chinese Government and Communist Party does 
not want. They want lay control. More than lay control, lay 
rather than monastic influence within a community. That came up 
fairly recently in an odd way.
    I believe it was in Golog Prefecture in Qinghai that a monk 
was killed. There was a lot of confusion about who, what, when, 
and where, but nevertheless, somebody was killed and there was 
unrest within the community. Despite the government's attempt 
to resolve the situation, officials finally called in a lama to 
calm things down.
    In other words, they were admitting that there was monastic 
influence within the community. But my guess is they are going 
to continue to try to narrow the areas of monastic influence.
    Mr. Foarde. Let me now pass the questioning on to our 
colleague, Mark Milosch, a senior advisor who has been working 
these last couple of years on Catholic issues and Protestant 
issues. Mark.
    Mr. Milosch. Thank you very much.
    This question is for anyone who might be able to help 
answer it. I am interested in Article 8 of the new regulations, 
the article on schools. Could you give us an idea how far 
Article 8 represents a change from previous regulations and 
practice and what you think the authorities may have in mind, 
and what might be the effect of this article. Will there be a 
sudden movement by the faiths to create schools? What do the 
authorities expect? What do you expect? How do you think the 
authorities might react to various likely developments? I 
should say, I am talking about religious schools here.
    Ms. Spiegel. As I understand it, there has always been a 
two-tier system. You have those seminaries that are recognized 
by the Religious Affairs Bureau, and then you have underground 
seminaries. I think the new regulations simply make explicit 
that officials are going to see to it that does not happen any 
more.
    It also is very clear that you cannot have a school on 
every corner any more than you can have a mosque on every 
corner. Officials are very definitely going to limit the 
number.
    Obviously, they have tried to control the curriculum, 
control which students are admitted, that they are patriotic 
students, and so on.
    I believe this is a codification of what they have been 
trying to do for years, and just further tightens control. I do 
not see any particular difference, but maybe someone else does.
    Ms. Hamrin. This tends to look like recentralization for 
authorization at the national level for any religious 
institute, whereas, my understanding is, up until now, 
provincial-level religious associations were able to set up, 
not necessarily seminaries, which do seem to have sort of a 
quota, one for the northeast, one for the southwest, but rather 
Bible schools. By this I mean a school that would be less than 
a full seminary, but something that could be more local, 
smaller scale, maybe two years instead of four years. Or 
perhaps some just lay training institutes of all sorts, some 
for six months, some for six weeks. I mean, there has been a 
lot more going on. So this could be an effort to recentralize 
approval over all such activities. We do not know what is a 
religious institute, all of the above or just the few that are 
regional or national in scope. We do not know.
    Mr. Foarde. Professor Bays.
    Mr. Bays. I think the highlighting of the role of the State 
Council here--it is mentioned specifically twice in that one 
paragraph--may well indicate a recentralization, an intent to 
have closer monitoring and permission from Beijing.
    Mr. Milosch. It sounds like none of you see any doors 
opening here.
    Mr. Bays. If anything, maybe the opposite, because of the 
role of the State Council, both in the initial stage and having 
the final say-so. Although the regulation does ask the lower 
level administrative unit to indicate whether it intends to 
accept the application or not before officials send it up to 
the State Council.
    Mr. Foarde. Good. Thank you.
    Let us hand the questioning now to our colleague, Carl 
Minzner, another senior counsel on the Commission staff. Carl.
    Mr. Minzner. Thank you very much, John.
    This question is directed to Professor Hamrin, but I will 
invite the other participants to answer the question as well.
    I was interested in the comparison that you made in the 
beginning of your statement about the resemblance of Chinese 
religious policy to economic policy, particularly with the idea 
that there were state-sponsored institutions that the 
government had been long involved in supporting, and they were 
gradually opening up the realm for some more civic associations 
to challenge the power of the long-established state religious 
organizations. One aspect of this economic context is that, 
while the Chinese Government may open up an area for more 
private associations, it frequently pursues a strategy of co-
option with respect to those associations that demonstrate 
particular strength or popular appeal. In the economic context, 
you could cite the example of the ``Three Represents'' strategy 
in bringing private entrepreneurs into the Party.
    So my question is: in the religious context, is there any 
evidence of this co-option strategy as well? Is the government 
making an effort to bring in those particular Protestant or 
Catholic leaders who are part of these newly-emerging, non-
state organizations that might be in opposition to the state-
sponsored church or the state-sponsored Catholic groups? Is the 
government making active efforts to bring those people into the 
patriotic church associations?
    Ms. Hamrin. I would just say that I think the government's 
intention in the civic sector is not necessarily to promote the 
competition. I think they did see that was valuable in the 
economic sector.
    But co-option is intrinsic to the whole ``united front'' 
strategy, and so all along I do think the government and 
Party's intention has been to resurrect these monopoly 
religious associations and allow them to develop and set up 
local churches, even in some areas that never had churches 
before. At the beginning, the associations did not intend to do 
that, but the government wants to allow them gradually to do 
enough that they can attract people into the fold, and then 
that would take care of the problem: everybody would register, 
everybody would be part of this one group, and then you can 
just put the squeeze on the people at the top of the group to 
be responsible for the behavior of all others.
    But it just has not worked out that way. So I view these 
regulations as yet one more effort to make the system function, 
and again we will have to wait and see whether it is going to 
work any better than previous efforts.
    These efforts at co-option always have a carrot and a 
stick, so we are seeing both here. I mean, we are seeing the 
stick--they are going after unregistered groups rather than 
ignoring and winking at their activities--in an effort to put 
the pressure on them to either come above ground or just 
disappear.
    So, I am sorry--did I answer the question? I wanted to say 
at some point, and maybe I could just say it here, I was 
talking to someone from the Religious Affairs sector and 
learned, to my surprise, that considering religious 
organizations as social organizations and registering them with 
Civil Affairs is not new. Now, I did not know that any 
religious associations were registered with Civil Affairs, but 
they are. I asked, ``Why does nobody know about this? '' He 
said, ``Well, it is just all very automatic.''
    If you were already one of these mass organizations, once 
the regulations were put out in 1994, which were government 
regulations, not Party policies, then these Party mass 
organizations were just automatically registered, and all the 
members, all the churches that were part of these associations, 
were just considered registered. So it was ``we are going to 
shift this whole system from party control to government 
control through regulations, and so register everybody.'' That 
was news to me, and maybe needs to be tested out and further 
investigated.
    That is the standard system. All social organizations have 
to register with Civil Affairs and be supervised by, or 
administered by, the functional agency in the government that 
controls that sector.
    Mr. Foarde. So, for example, the Health Ministry or 
something like that.
    Ms. Hamrin. There was huge debate about this in recent 
years. Reformers in the State Council Legislative Office and 
the Ministry of Civil Affairs, plus the organizations 
themselves, were saying that this is just really onerous. In 
fact, one of the reasons so many social organizations do not 
register, or register instead as businesses, is because they 
cannot find a government agency that will sponsor them, 
probably because the government agency cannot make money off of 
them and they are just a pain.
    So in the debates going into the drafting of the foundation 
regulations, they debated, ``Should we just do away with this? 
'' One earlier draft did, but then when you came down to the 
bargaining at the end, to a consensus that everybody can 
accept, you put that off for the next round, knowing there will 
be a next round. This is continually in negotiation, like any 
good Chinese contract.
    Ms. Spiegel. There was a meeting in December 2003, to 
discuss NGOs. There were Chinese participants; the EU was the 
other partner. The Chinese participants said at that time that 
the need to have government sponsorship of an organization was 
on its way out.
    For awhile, it looked like that was going to happen, but it 
seems not to be happening now. However, I still see a 
difference between the fact that there is some kind of 
oversight by a sponsoring organization and the fact that you 
have at the whole bureaucracy set-up to oversee religious 
organizations. I may be dead wrong.
     Mr. Foarde. Dan, do you have a comment?
    Ms. Hamrin. One important difference is that Religious 
Affairs Bureaus have a vested interest in keeping this system, 
because they do not do anything else.
    Ms. Spiegel. Agreed.
    Ms. Hamrin. Whereas, most other government agencies do have 
other business.
    Mr. Foarde. Or at least have another function. Right. A 
comment, Dan?
    Mr. Bays. I just wanted to point out that in 2002, 
something happened which has implications for the future and 
relates to what Carl was mentioning. Frank Ching, who was 
writing then for the Far Eastern Economic Review, had a column 
in the first half of 2002 where he stated very confidently 
that, at the upcoming 16th Party Congress later that year, not 
only businessmen, but also religious believers, would be 
allowed to join the Party.
    Nothing came of that, but I think that this perhaps 
indicates very well how trial balloons can get shot down maybe 
by conservative people in the Party. It also indicates that a 
substantial part of the Party at that time was willing to 
contemplate having religious believers as Party members instead 
of going through and purging all the Party members who were 
discovered to have 
theistic beliefs. So that indicates some flexibility for the 
future, perhaps. What it would mean for a believer to become a 
Party member, it is a little anomalous, but who knows?
    Mr. Foarde. Interesting. Thank you.
    Let me recognize Laura Mitchell, our research associate on 
the Commission staff, who is also a member of our Religion 
Working Group. Laura.
    Ms. Mitchell. Thank you. Thank you all for being here.
    I would like to know more about how the new regulations 
will affect membership of religious groups. I read that the 
regulations stipulate that legal action can be taken against 
anyone who attempts to compel others to believe in certain 
religions. How will this affect the ability of religious groups 
to meet with potential new members or discuss their religion 
and encourage new membership?
    Ms. Spiegel. When I read that clause, I think in terms of 
religious officials not being allowed to force people to 
disbelieve or 
believe in atheism. I would have to go back and look again to 
understand the implication for ordinary recruitment. I never 
thought of the clause from that perspective. There may well be 
some intent to find an additional way to counter proselytizing. 
I did not see that, but I will have to look again.
    Mr. Foarde. Dan.
    Mr. Bays. Eastern Lightning, of course, would fall under 
this provision. It is already a xiejiao, already an evil cult.
    Mr. Foarde. Both organizations and individuals, according 
to the thing. How interesting. Laura, do you have another 
question? You have a couple of minutes left.
    Ms. Mitchell. How do you think the regulations might impact 
local traditional religious practices? Do you think that local 
officials will now be more likely to stop traditional folk 
religious practices?
    Ms. Spiegel. Carol and I were at a meeting--Carol was one 
of the speakers--and one of the other people who spoke talked 
particularly about that issue. What it seems to be is that 
local traditional religion is going to be incorporated into the 
system. Originally there were only five recognized religions. I 
would guess that, unless there is real pressure on them, local 
officials would tend to let it remain as it was. I think 
traditional religion is so much a part of the culture in 
certain provinces. From what I understand, in some areas many 
local officials, if not the leaders, play a big part in 
traditional religion I do not imagine there is going to be a 
lot of change, but I do not know enough about it to do anything 
more than make a guess at this point.
    Mr. Foarde. Go ahead, Carol.
    Ms. Hamrin. You saved all the good questions for me.
    Mr. Foarde. That is right. That is right. We want to keep 
you awake. [Laughter.]
    Ms. Hamrin. I just think this is an issue to watch very 
closely, and it is related to what Dan Bays was talking about 
earlier about Party membership. At the local level in areas 
where folk religion--or folk faith, which is less organized but 
more cultural--is really prominent, and it is not just the 
southeast, but around Beijing, and it is growing all over, you 
have got Party members and Party officials who are involved in 
these local practices, if not some organized religion.
    So, just like earlier, when you have so many Party members 
leaving the Party and government and going into business, but 
still they were Party members, what do you do with them? It is 
not a matter of recruiting businessmen. It is, what do you do 
with these businessmen who are already in the Party?
    It is the same thing here. What about all these Party 
people who have joined, or are practicing, religion, or whose 
families are? Do you just say, ``all right, that is fine? '' Do 
you try to purge them, to somehow roll that back? That is what 
they have decided to do, for now, at least. Maybe the next 
round will be a different decision.
    Ms. Spiegel. They did roll it back in Tibet and Xinjiang. 
Whether that reflects the difference in the way religion in 
those two provinces is viewed and the way other religions are 
viewed, is hard to know. Whether they will be a model is hard 
to know.
    Mr. Foarde. Thank you. Let us give the last set of 
questions for this afternoon to Keith Hand, our senior counsel. 
Keith.
    Mr. Hand. Those of us who are lawyers like to say there is 
no right without a remedy. Professor Bays, you mentioned that 
one of the goals of the new regulation is to control 
arbitrariness, and also to discipline officials if they do not 
follow the rules. Do the rules give the religious believers 
themselves any legal cause of action through which to enforce 
them?
    The second question is should we make anything of the fact 
that this was passed as a State Council regulation as opposed 
to a national law?
    Mr. Bays. For the first, there is nothing in the 
regulations that indicates who can bring suit. It sort of 
implies that the official's supervisor would know about this 
and take action, which is probably not very realistic. But the 
legal profession in China is expanding and there are lawyers 
doing all kinds of daring things. I can imagine an 
adventuresome local religious leader being a lawyer and 
bringing suit against a cadre. Of course, he might get beat up 
for it by thugs. Anyway, that is probably the area of remedy.
    The other question. It probably is significant that it is a 
State Council regulation, because maybe that is easier to 
change in the future. This is, perhaps, somewhat experimental.
    Ms. Hamrin. I was a little surprised when I read that, 
explicitly, religious believers are told that they can take 
these laws on administrative wrongful action and use those if 
they feel local officials have abused their authority, because 
I thought, they are citizens of the PRC, of course they can do 
that for any kind of administrative wrongful action. But in the 
Chinese culture, unless it is spelled out, it will not happen. 
It is not like here in the United States, where we 
assume,''Well, of course they can, even if they did not say 
so.''
    I think it is important that they spelled out that people 
can take officials to court if there is a problem, or they can 
get a second opinion, so to speak, if they disagree with the 
administrative opinion. It is important both because they are 
more likely to do so in fact, and because officials then know 
that and may think twice when they make decisions.
    Mr. Foarde. I appreciate that answer, and all the profound 
answers we have gotten to the questions this afternoon, as well 
the statements from our panelists.
    For the first time in several weeks of doing these 
roundtables this year, we actually have sunshine streaming in 
the windows from outside, and I see now that the shadows are 
growing long. So, on behalf of Chairman Chuck Hagel and the 
Members of the Congressional-Executive Commission on China, let 
me thank our three panelists, Carol Hamrin, Mickey Spiegel, Dan 
Bays, and all of you who came this afternoon to hear them share 
their expertise with us.
    Please watch our Web site and your e-mail for announcements 
about the series of roundtables and hearings that we will have 
throughout the spring. Announcements will be coming up soon.
    Thank you all, and we will adjourn this roundtable. Thank 
you.



                            A P P E N D I X

=======================================================================


                          Prepared Statements

                              ----------                              


                  Prepared Statement fo Mickey Spiegel

                             March 14, 2005
    As a senior researcher for Human Rights Watch, a private, 
independent human rights monitoring organization, I appreciate the 
opportunity to appear today before the Congressional Executive 
Commission on China to present my/our perspective on the evolution of 
religious policy in China following the end of the Cultural Revolution 
(1966-1997).
    From the time the Chinese government rescinded the Maoist imposed 
ban on all religious belief, it has steadily reinforced the structure 
of laws and regulations directing religious practice. The regulations 
that went into effect on March 1, 2005 do not appear to be a break with 
tradition, but an attempt to tighten the state's control, codify Party 
policies, and strengthen the bureaucracy established to enforce them. 
The aim is two-fold: stricter control, less arbitrariness.
    In 1982, the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party 
promulgated Document 19, ``The Basic Viewpoint and Policy on the 
Religious Question during Our County's Socialist Period.'' Its 
principles continue to underlie religious policy in the People's 
Republic of China even as we meet to consider the implications of the 
new State Council Decree, ``Regulations on Religious Affairs,'' in 
effect since March 1, 2005.
    Document 19's original formulation was sparse: ``respect for and 
promotion of the freedom of religious belief,'' \1\ but it signaled a 
sea change. Promotion of freedom to choose to believe signaled an end 
to policies of repression which alienated believers and interfered with 
the State's ability to turn its full attention to and to direct the 
attention of believers to a mutual goal of rapid modernization. Respect 
for a variety of beliefs spoke to the State's determination to curb 
cadres who had been able with impunity to intimidate, harass, arrest, 
and torture believers.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ Chinese Law and Government, vol. 33 (March-April 2000) p. 22.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    However, with the promulgation of the 1982 Chinese constitution 
which followed hard on the heels of Document 19,\2\ the potential for 
limiting the full flowering of religious belief and practice became 
immediately obvious. Document 19 limited freedom to believe to five 
major religions, Buddhism, Daoism, Islam, Catholicism and post-
denominational Protestantism; article 36 of the constitution limited 
state protection only to ``normal'' religious activities.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Constitution of the People's Republic of China, adopted at the 
Fifth Session of the Fifth National People's Congress and promulgated 
for implementation by the proclamation of the National People's 
Congress on December 4, 1982.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The ambiguity of the term ``normal'' permitted a plethora of limits 
on religious expression. What developing regulations explicitly allowed 
was considered normal; any other activity could be deemed abnormal even 
by a local bureaucrat. As a Chinese official said some months ago, what 
was illegal was abnormal; what was abnormal was illegal. But such a 
formulation continued to make possible arbitrary rule by local fiat, 
something the central leadership was determined to disallow even as it 
strengthened control over religious practice. At the same time, 
prohibition on the use of religion to disrupt public order signaled a 
concern, one that continues to this day, that ``hostile forces'' would 
use religion as a cover for fomenting subversion.
    Guidelines, such as those making ``patriotic'' organizations 
responsible for monitoring compliance with state policy, establishing a 
``three-fix'' policy that limited evangelism and the use of lay 
religious leaders, and instituting a ``three-self'' policy that barred 
organizational ties to world religious bodies, gave way to emphasis on 
a ``rule of law.'' That new emphasis culminated in 1991 in a policy 
directive that carried Document 19 a step further and is still the 
centerpiece of religious control. Document 6, ``Circular on Some 
Problems Concerning the Further Improvement of Work on Religion,'' \3\ 
mandated that every congregation, temple, monastery, mosque, and church 
had to register with the authorities. An unregistered group was by 
definition illegal and its members subject to arrest; a group deemed 
legal opened itself to control of its personnel, religious materials, 
activities, membership, and finances.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \3\ Chinese Law and Government, vol. 33 (March-April 2000) pp. 56-
63.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Jiang Zemin extended the impetus toward regulation of religious 
activity through law when, in 1993, he stated that religion must adapt 
itself to a socialist society. The imperative has been interpreted to 
mean that everything from organization of rites and rituals to 
underlying theology to the day to day management of personnel, 
materials, and activities must meet the changing needs of society as 
interpreted by its rulers.
    By 1994, regulations codified by the State Council specified the 
steps required to properly register and the right of rejection reserved 
to those bodies charged with monitoring compliance. Local regulations 
made still more explicit what legally registered organizations could or 
could not do. There was, however, still room for small groups, 
operating discreetly in the shadows, to continue to meet and worship.
    That small space, though still in existence in 1994, narrowed again 
in 1999, when the Chinese government, in response to the emergence of 
Falun Gong, further 
reserved for itself the right to determine what in the religions it 
recognized constituted orthodox belief and what was heterodox and thus 
illegal, and to further determine what belief structures could be 
classified as cults and thus ipso facto illegal.
    The regulations that went into effect on March 1, 2005 further 
codify the rules restraining religious practice in China and the 
bureaucratic mechanism used to 
enforce those rules. That bureaucracy consists in part of the national 
State Administration of Religious Affairs; a hierarchy of religious 
affairs bureaus in all administrative units such as provinces, 
townships, and counties; the Ministry of Public 
Security; and local police units.
    Several immediate problems assert themselves. The usual twin 
problems of undefined terminology and vaguely worded regulatory 
articles make it difficult to understand precisely what compliance 
requires and leave considerable leeway for national and local 
interpretation. For example, the problem of what is ``normal'' and what 
is not remains; nowhere is there an explanation of ``the lawful rights 
and interests of religious bodies, sites for religious activities and 
religious citizens;'' and the requirement that those same actors 
``safeguard unification of the country, unity of all nationalities and 
stability of society'' (article 3) leaves the state free to re-
interpret the provision as the need arises and leaves religious 
practitioners no redress should they be charged with a violation.
    In addition, other than the specific requirement in Article 48 of 
the new regulations that the ``Regulations on Administration of Sites 
for Religious Activities,'' be repealed, laws and regulations remain in 
place that do not specifically target religious activities, but 
nevertheless have serious implications for religious expression. The 
2005 regulations make no comment on these pre-existing laws and 
regulations, nor do they suggest how their implementation will affect 
provincial regulations. The usual practice has been for provinces and 
other administrative areas to follow national templates in crafting 
regulations specific to their jurisdiction.
    The most problematic addition to prior regulatory regimes, and one 
that I believe clearly signals an increase in State control, is the 
requirement that a religious body (nowhere defined) ``shall be 
registered in accordance with the provisions of the Regulations on 
Registration Administration of Associations.'' The change signals the 
need for a religious body to satisfy two bureaucracies, the Civil 
Affairs Ministry and the State Administration of Religious Affairs. The 
requirement not only adds to bureaucratic oversight but in theory it 
requires, inter alia, a religious organization to have a government 
agency ``as a professional leading unit,'' 50 members, full time 
personnel, and if local, have ``activity funds totaling in excess of 
30,000 yuan.'' Most importantly, the regulations state, in article 
13(2), that an application may be rejected because one with a ``similar 
operational scope exists in the same administrative area.'' In other 
words, the state is given the power to decide how many mosques are 
enough.
    Several other provisions speak directly to an increase in state 
control:

  <bullet> the requirement that the religious affairs department of the 
    State Council approve educational institutes, which may reject an 
    application on the grounds that sufficient institutes exist in a 
    given locale;
  <bullet> involvement of a national religious body in the selection of 
    students who may go abroad for religious study;
  <bullet> the obligatory involvement of three administrative levels 
    before an application to prepare to establish a site for religious 
    activities can be approved and the additional requirement that no 
    application for registration can be made until construction is 
    complete;
  <bullet> apparent elimination of any gray area through which small 
    local groups without a structure could use someone's home or shop 
    as a meeting place where like-minded believers could quietly 
    congregate;
  <bullet> acceptance of ``guidance, supervision and inspection'' by 
    ``relevant departments of the local people's government;''
  <bullet> restrictions on large-scale religious activities.

    An added worry grows out of the requirement (article 27) that 
religious personnel be ``determined qualified as such by a religious 
body.'' The stipulation brings to mind the on-going ``patriotic'' 
campaigns in Tibet and Xinjiang during which clergy are compelled to 
examine themselves and their colleagues for inappropriate behavior or 
thought.
    One omission may--but only may--signal a positive policy change. 
Nowhere in the regulations is reference made to what belief systems 
qualify as religions. The omission may signal that additional belief 
systems will be added to the short list as apparently has been the case 
for some aspects of popular religion. Conversely, it may signify only 
that the government will continue to be the sole arbiter of what is a 
religion and what is not.
    I am reluctant to consider regularizing religious belief, practice, 
or organization a positive development. The premise seems to be that 
communities of believers have the potential to challenge Beijing's rule 
throughout China, though more so in Tibet and Xinjiang where religion 
serves as an identity marker and supports independence sentiment.
    I believe, the hope is that the new regulations will lay the 
groundwork for religious organizations to perform necessary social 
welfare functions that the state itself cannot support--think 
hospitals, clinics, old-age homes, senior centers. But I suspect that 
China's leadership has crafted the regulations in a way intended to 
further isolate religious belief and practice from life's day to day 
minutiae. That emphatically is not freedom of religious belief, even as 
defined in the dry language of international human rights doctrines.
    No, the March 1, 2005 regulations are at best, a cosmetic cover up.
                                 ______
                                 

                  Prepared Statement of Daniel H. Bays

                             March 14, 2005
Summary of main points:

    1. These regulations do not seem to constitute a ``paradigm 
shift.'' Especially when at the same time on the broader stage major 
cases of persecution continue.
    2. Purpose is not (except perhaps as a side effect) to enhance 
believers' rights or security to practice their religion. It is rather 
to regularize, and thus enhance, state and party control. I.e., the 
purpose is to reduce arbitrariness in managing religious affairs (which 
would be positive for believers), but in pursuit of better total 
control.
    3. Notorious problems of vagueness of terms and no definition, e.g. 
``normal activity,'' ``religious extremism,'' even ``religion'' itself, 
continue from past documents.
    4. Nevertheless some interesting features, e.g. art. 38 where 
``state functionaries'' (but does this mean party members as well?) can 
be disciplined for abuse of power, or art. 33 which makes clear that 
believers are entitled to fair compensation for confiscated property.
    5. Several mentions of aspects relating to religious groups 
carrying out social service activities, including use of foreign 
donations to do so. Seems almost a tacit admission that the state isn't 
doing very well in meeting these responsibilities.
    6. There runs through the document a consistent thread of concern 
that religious groups might ``come under the sway of foreign forces.'' 
Not entirely clear who is main target here, Muslims, Tibetans, or 
Catholics; or even Protestants.
    7. Overall, again not a paradigm shift, just a cleanup by 
bureaucrats?
    8. This document reminds me a lot of the behavior and assumptions 
of pre-Communist Chinese political regimes going back a couple of 
millennia: insistence on registration and licensing, deep fear of 
heterodoxy, paranoia about religious forces 
becoming politically subversive, etc. Note that some groups are in fact 
candidates for rebellion.

Some other related observations, some of them along lines of religious 
believers ``resisting'' state control:

    1. At some point people will start to realize that laws should 
protect citizens as well as being instruments of the state. A few cases 
starting to show this.
    2. Technology and religion's resistance to or evasion of the state. 
Web sites being constantly shut down by the state, including many 
religious ones, indicating a lot of them are in existence.
    3. Continued pattern of, e.g., Protestant groups refusing to 
register with authorities, and many of them creating their own non-
state sanctioned training schools and programs for leaders.
    4. Will more growth of an urban, better educated, wealthier class 
of believers (thinking of Protestants here) result in more security for 
the church? Will it result in elements of a Chinese civil society, with 
believers manifesting a sense of civic duty and responsibility and 
desire to participate in local decisionmaking?
    5. Possible role for intellectuals here? E.g. ``culture 
Christians.''
    6. It seems we may be in a long-term pattern of the state's 
declining control over society and elements of society gradually 
growing more assertive in claiming their ``rights;'' perhaps it will be 
easier to do so with this new religion law. (Or that may be wishful 
thinking).
                                 ______
                                 

               Prepared Statement of Carol Lee Hamrin\1\

                             march 14, 2005

        New State Regulations on Religion: The Bargaining Begins

    Trends in religious affairs are part of a broader trajectory in 
state-society relations that might be called ``outgrowing socialism.'' 
Following a pattern set by the economic reforms, the state still 
protects and gives special support to its monopoly institutions--what 
we might call state-organized institutions (``SOIs'') to echo state-
owned enterprises (``SOEs'')--while allowing non-state civic 
institutions to spring up in order to meet demand. These smaller and 
weaker organizations nonetheless have greater vitality and flexibility 
and gradually put competitive pressure on the state agencies.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \1\ From commentary presented at ``Religion and Cultural Change in 
China,'' a seminar at the Brookings Institution, Washington DC, 
February 1, 2005.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Thus, the unregistered religious organizations have greatly 
outpaced in growth and popularity the five official monopolies--the so-
called ``patriotic'' religious associations. This, despite the state's 
unwillingness to grant them legitimacy--and periodic efforts to force 
them to register through the monopoly agencies. This adds to evidence 
of a more equal relationship developing between the state and society 
in general, as the state downsizes and a pluralistic society develops. 
The state can no longer easily suppress or control social 
organizations, and also finds them useful to lighten the state's burden 
in providing social services in ever greater demand.
    This is the comparative context for analyzing the new State Council 
regulations on religious affairs that went into effect on March 1, 
2005, in the place of the national regulations of 1994. (Note that the 
1994 rules for foreign nationals still apply). Compared with the 
previous regulations, which focused on the registration and operation 
of religious sites, there is some improvement in both comprehensiveness 
and transparency. The new rules are detailed--48 articles--and 
systematic in addressing the establishment and registration of 
religious associations, religious activities, personnel, property and 
liability. The content of the regulations, however, contains little 
that could not be found scattered in existing provincial regulations or 
implementing guidelines. It is more of a ``snapshot'' of current 
practice than a step toward more democratic practices, including 
legislation to protect constitutional rights, that would be expected of 
China at this stage of development. Nonetheless, the regulations now 
provide the highest level (State Council) legitimation for existing 
practices such as large-scale or inter-provincial meetings, publication 
of religious materials circulated ``within religious circles,'' 
acceptance of donations from overseas, and provision of social services 
to the community. Note that the full meaning and import of these 
regulations cannot be known until the implementing guidelines are 
hammered out among contending parties.
    The cautious and conservative nature of these regulations is 
reflected in other regulations and implementing guidelines under review 
for the social sector--such as the June 2004 set of rules for public 
and private foundations and the rules for social (membership) 
organizations and non-commercial institutions. There are also changes 
underway in the donation law and tax and audit rules that will affect 
all these various types of social organizations. The application of new 
rules on property ownership will be critical to all of them, and 
perhaps the most important will be a law on association reportedly 
being drafted.
    So the good news is that there is a stated intent to treat 
religious organizations equally with other social organizations rather 
than as some special kind of threat to the polity. For example, in the 
model constitution drafted by the China Christian Council to be used as 
a template for the constitutions of all registered Protestant churches, 
the Council specifically states that churches in China have a dual 
nature--that of a spiritual organization and that of a social 
organization. As social organizations, churches should ``abide by 
China's constitution, laws, regulations, and policies and should foster 
social progress, national construction, and the cause of world peace.'' 
\2\
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    \2\ Church Order for Chinese Protestant Christian Churches, 
December 28, 1996, translation  2001 M.E. Sharpe, Inc., from the 
Chinese text, ``Zhongguo jidujiao jiaohui guizhang,'' Tianfeng 
(Heavenly Wind), No. 2 (1997).
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    However, the bad news is that all social organizations are still 
tightly restricted by intrusive state supervision, including strict 
quotas for those with national or provincial scope and restrictions 
about foreign ties. For example, the new foundation regulations require 
that foundations ``must not endanger national security, national unity 
or the unity of nationalities,'' reflecting suspicion about foreign 
involvement. The new regulations on religious affairs are less subtle, 
requiring ``independence and self-governance'' and prohibiting any 
``foreign domination.'' Such warnings seem anachronistic, at a time 
when foreign-invested companies in China are generating more than half 
of the value of all Chinese exports.
    The intent of the current regulatory approach seems to be reducing 
the arbitrariness and abuses of local implementing officials while 
retaining the final authority for defining and applying the rules in 
the hands of government. Thus, the state alone will define case by case 
such key terms that were left quite vague in the 
regulations such as ``religious belief'' or ``normal'' religious 
activities that deserve government protection, on the one hand, or the 
``state or public interests'' or ``foreign domination'' that would 
require government intervention on the other hand.
    Moreover, there is no requirement to harmonize the new regulations 
with previous laws, regulations or policy directives that may 
contradict them, to guarantee constitutional rights. So existing 
restrictions, including rules set by the monopoly religious 
associations such as not converting or baptizing minors, very likely 
will continue. The importance of this lack of coherence can be 
illustrated by mentioning just a few current policies that impact 
negatively on free religious practice--ongoing security campaigns 
against ``religious extremism'' (the new term for cults, terrorism, and 
separatism) and ``foreign infiltration'' (undefined); a propaganda 
department campaign to foster ``atheism and materialism'' in the media 
and education systems (maintaining the privilege of atheism over 
theistic belief); an organization department campaign to winnow out 
religious believers from Chinese Communist Party membership rolls; and 
education department instructions to stop religious activities on 
university campuses and put a freeze on the development of religious 
study centers. Thus, the actual environment for religious affairs is 
highly complex, confusing and intimidating, while implementation is 
heavily dependent on the locality in question.
    The adoption of these regulations on religious affairs may be most 
important as evidence that the state is under internal and external 
pressure to regularize or normalize its relations with religious 
believers. As with other regulations, we are dealing with a moving 
target; the drafters and implementers are well aware that they will be 
engaged in ongoing negotiations and hard bargaining with the various 
interest groups affected. And no longer are these purely the 
bureaucratic interest groups, but include the grass-roots religious 
organizations and international players as well.
    It seems that religious believers have won some grudging acceptance 
by the authorities that they are here to stay and have legitimate 
interests that must be taken into account. A lot of hard bargaining 
lies ahead, but having established the necessity of negotiating is a 
step toward the eventual free exercise of the right of association. In 
sum, the new regulations offer no guarantees or even probabilities of 
progress but signal some important possibilities.
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