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NOVEMBER 13, 2008, UPDATE FROM A DARFURIAN HUMAN RIGHTS ACTIVIST

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: This is Bridget Conley-Zilkic. Welcome to Voices on Genocide Prevention. With me this week is Adeeb Yousif, who is now the chairperson with the Darfur Reconciliation and Development Organization. Adeeb last spoke with us two years ago in December of 2006 about work that he was doing as a human rights advocate and activist on behalf of the people where he comes from in Darfur. Adeeb, thank you for joining me again today.

ADEEB YOUSIF: Thank you very much I am very happy to be here once again.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Two years is a long time particularly in a place like Darfur where so much has happened. What are your top priorities now and those of your organization? What are the things that you are focused on most these days?

ADEEB YOUSIF: In fact, one of the most important things that we are focusing on right now is the protection of the internally displaced persons [IDPs]. This stands at the top my priority that I am working on, because I have seen the situation on the ground. Nobody told me, I have there witnessed this kind of hostility since early beginning of the conflict up to now. And, everybody that I talk to him or her among the internally displaced persons [IDPs], he or she told me, "Thank you for the food. Thank you for the education. Thank you for the service that you provide us, but now we are needing security and protection."

Unfortunately, the internally displaced persons [IDPs], there is nobody responsible for them. The internally displaced persons [IDPs] are supposed to receive the security and protection from their government. But unfortunately, unfortunately indeed, the government of Sudan, they are the ones who made this genocide for the internally displaced persons. And they force them to run to the camps. So, now they are in a situation where they need protection. They are in a situation where they need services like water, education, health, nutrition. And this is briefly about what I am here for.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And how many internally displaced people are there now in Darfur?

ADEEB YOUSIF: Currently, there are 3 million internally displaced persons [IDPs] in Darfur. People, they don't update the figures. When they talk about it, they talk about 2.5 million and this is in 2004. There is new arrival on a daily basis. They burn their places and even this internally displaced people [IDPs] they flee from camp to another camp. When the government attacks them, they have to flee from the camp to another camp where they feel a little safer, and this is their situation.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: How many of the IDPs does your organization work with?

ADEEB YOUSIF: In fact, we are operating on like 75 different IDP camps in north and west Darfur, and south Darfur, but we are focusing in south and west Darfur.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Where are you based?

ADEEB YOUSIF: Currently I am based in Zalingei and this is in West Darfur, but I have been moving around, East Africa, and eventually I made it to the States.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: What kind of work are you doing inside these camps? You said in addition to providing services, education and help displaced people meet basic needs inside the camps-- but what can you do for protection with them?

ADEEB YOUSIF: In fact, we have very little to do in terms of protection because the thing that we do is only to submit a report. That's all. We don't have any other thing that we can do. But whenever violence took place in a camp, we make a report. We submit it either to the human rights groups around the world or to U.N. agencies that work in protection, and that is all, the thing we can do.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: What kinds of threats are people facing inside the camps today?

ADEEB YOUSIF: In fact, the people in the camps they are feeling insecurity. Not only insecurity, but there is a real attack on the internally displaced persons. In August of 2008, just like 2 months ago, the government of Sudan and militias they attacked a camp called Kalma, this is in south Darfur, 18 kilometers south of Nyala where they killed 55 persons in one day; they injured 118 persons in 1 day; and they abduct some of the children. The same incidents happening in Nertity in North Darfur. The same incidents happen in Zum Zum, in South Darfur, and in most of the internally displaced persons camps. The government and the militia come there, attack the displaced persons, and they took whatever they have.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: We have heard reports that in those areas where people have been cleared off their lands, that new groups have settled in. Can you talk a little bit about how the population in Darfur is changing, where they live, how they live? Have there been what look today like permanent changes in Darfur?

ADEEB YOUSIF: Unfortunately, this is one of the things that I want to address it right now for the international community to hear about what is going in terms of land. Land in Darfur is everything to every Darfurian. This is the main issue for the current conflict. The government of Sudan used a plan for cleaning out the African tribes and replace them with the Arab tribes from outside the country and still inside the country. And they have a plan by 2020 so there's no black Africans in Darfur, either to move them away from Darfur or to kill all of them.

Then, when the wall broke down in Darfur, that counted for the government as election. So they killed the people, they forced them to flee from their land. And currently, while we are speaking, the government of Sudan replaced certain people from outside the country, from Nerjer from Maly, from eastern border of Chad and all of these are Arab tribes in the African's tribe in Darfur. So, in West Darfur, Kujer, Um Bala, Magan Um Dokhon; and in South Darfur, Shataya, Singita, Kilek -- in those areas, so the government of Sudan settled Arab tribes from different countries. And unfortunately, the government gives them citizenship issued in 1970, so everybody outside there, he or she has citizenship, like passport, or I.D. or whatever, issued by 1970. While people, the original people, they don't have this kind of facilities.

The other thing that most of the immigration process comes like this. Force people to get out from their original home, running to other place, and remaining there. So this is one of the things that I'm very worried about it and I want the international community to help us in terms of solving the problem. Because we do have tribes, they just came from Chad, like in 1984 during the starvation and they came there and now they consider themselves Darfurian and even they fight on behalf of the government. So this is one of the very important things that we need urgent action from the international community. And we need help to solve the problems of land and to remove the people that the government brought in from other countries.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And you've seen that yourself, some of these new groups settling.

ADEEB YOUSIF: Yeah, they are there physically in the area of -- all these areas I have seen by myself, nobody told me. I went there, I did an assessment, I took some photos and I talked to organizations and I talked to U.N. agencies like UNHCR about this.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: The name of your organization is reconciliation and development and previously you told me about some efforts that your organization has undertaken to help facilitate reconciliation between different groups inside Darfur. Can you talk a little bit about what relations are like between average people in the towns or cities where you work or in refugee camps? Have the lines hardened so much that people cannot have even relationships across different groups?

ADEEB YOUSIF: Yeah, in fact this is to me it is well created by the government. They are the one who create problems among the internally displaced persons themselves. Then the problem that comes from this point, therefore we can find different groups, like Fur tribes are quarreling with the Zaghawa tribe and vice versa. We can find the Masalit tribe they are quarreling with Fur tribe and vice versa. And this well-planned by the government themselves because like three days ago there was a demonstration in Zum Zum IDP camps in El Fashir. And the Fur tribe, they make a demonstration that they don't want the Zaghawa tribe to be with them in the camp. So this way we want to engage them, to involve, in solving this internal problems for the internally-displaced persons.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: So conflicts even between victims of the same perpetrators.

ADEEB YOUSIF: Yeah, conflict. And this is not only our vision, our vision is to solve the problem in Darfur through a peaceful way.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: What is the solution, how could you do that?

ADEEB YOUSIF: In fact we have traditional leaders that are working with me. They are the ones who have an experience of solving the local conflicts, not the conflict like the current conflict. So they have their own method that they solve the problems. And we have this Rakuba and Judiya, or whatever. So this is the way they can solve the local problems, not the problems like the current problems of the genocide or this kind of thing. So I am working with the traditional leaders in the Sudanese state of Darfur and hopefully, we are going to achieve our goal.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: A lot of troubles that we have seen in looking at other cases is that traditional authorities, elders, lose some of their respect when the younger men take up arms, and authority shifts from the older generation to younger people who are armed. How can you help foster or continue to rely on traditional methods when society has been so disrupted by war and genocide and loss?

ADEEB YOUSIF: Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, we are not focusing on the problem like the genocide problem or the current conflict. We are working on the local, local conflict with full hope that we can assist in the genocide problems. Because you see, there is no law for the genocide in Darfur. And there is no law for the genocide in Sudan. And those traditional leaders they don't know how to handle issues like genocide. But the local conflicts or local problems, these we're involved in.

In fact, the other thing that the traditional leaders lost respect, I don’t think so. Because up to now we have our traditional leaders whom represent their people on the ground and different people respect them. But the government, they don't respect the original traditional leaders so they create another people. Therefore, others they don't respect the traditional leaders that were elected or appointed by the government. Now we have somebody like El Magdom in Nyala, he is well-respected. He has something called an El Ahali Gourp, which is 27 different African and Arab tribes and he is well-respected by different tribes. Somebody like El Magdom, somebody like Mukjer in Zalingei, somebody like others in Geneina or in El Fashir in north Darfur, they are well-respected by their people. And we need people to respect them. We don't need respect from the government.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: They have that capacity, to bring people together?

ADEEB YOUSIF: Yeah, they have the capacity to bring people together.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And you continue to work, you have faced imprisonment by the government and, I'm sure, harassment. How were you able to continue working inside Darfur.

ADEEB YOUSIF: In fact, these are very good questions, because for me, I have decided that the rest of my life to help people in Darfur, in Sudan, and Africa. This is one of the things I have decided, I am going to work on this. The other thing, if I want to lead a decent life, and my people also, to live a decent life, they have to struggle as people in working with them. So, therefore, I have been in prison many times. The government jailed me; they took me to different places. And you can't imagine how the Sudanese government treated me while I was in jail because of my work, because I am human right defender. But I don't have another choice. I have to work with my people and I have to help my people. I have to send the reports to human right groups, to everybody that he or she can make a difference for us. I don't have another choice. All times I was either in jail or I have to get out of the country. So whenever I get into problem that they don't reach me and they want to be out to help other people, I have to get out of the country. I am working from there for awhile. Therefore, this is what I believe for them because human rights to me is an ideal that I hope to live for and to achieve.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: You've said that you've been in east Africa recently. You told me previously you've been in Rwanda as well. Why did you go there, what were you trying to understand in Rwanda?

ADEEB YOUSIF: In fact, I went to Rwanda for many purposes. The first purpose I want to see what has happened there in terms of the genocides that took place in 1994 and to compare the genocide in Darfur and the genocide in Rwanda. This is one of the main purposes that I went there for. The second thing I want to do, I went there to make awareness about the genocide in Darfur, and what needs to be done for the African people and the African society and the African organizations.

Unfortunately I found that the genocide in Darfur and the genocide in Rwanda, there is no difference between them, the same effort, the same effort by the government that they kill people. I don't think there is any kind of difference between the genocide in Darfur and the genocide in Rwanda. I wanted to visit different memorial, genocide memorial, in Rwanda. I talked to people to help us, and this is one of the things I am focusing on. I want to see a genocide memorial in Darfur. Now it is difficult, if not impossible, to put a genocide memorial in Darfur. So we were there physically in Kigali talking to people in the genocide memorial if they accept to give us at least two rooms to provide information, to provide the tours of the genocide in Darfur. In fact, to put money aside for Darfur, but in Rwanda for their current period, but then later we can shift it to Darfur. This is the main reason that led me to go to Rwanda and talk to people over there.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: And, of course, Rwanda has a special interest, it has soldiers on the ground previously with the African Union Force and now with the African Union-U.N. hybrid force. What kind of reaction did people in Rwanda have? Did they know what was going on in Darfur?

ADEEB YOUSIF: Yeah. In fact, let me take this chance to thank the people of Rwanda. I thank them very much for their commitment for Darfur. And, I was there in Darfur physically watching how the Rwandese operating underground and how they are active on the ground in terms of ending the genocide there. I talked to people in Kigali and they told me that they sent a group of soldiers to Darfur not because of the appeal of the African Union, but because of their constitution that they are preventing genocide whenever it takes place. Therefore, they sent their troops to Darfur. And their soldiers, they came with their equipment. And their soldiers are very active on the ground. They are there with me in a place like Zalingei, in a place like Nertity and they are very active, they are doing their job perfectly. In fact, they are doing a very fantastic job in Darfur. I thank them very much.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Finally, what are you doing here in D.C. now?

ADEEB YOUSIF: In fact, I came to D.C. now to participate in a conference and hopefully in that conference I can share my ideas, as experience the kind of situation for the aid of peace in Darfur, in terms of the lack of facilities, health, water, protection, education and those kinds of things with the groups here. Also, what is needed to be done in terms of the ICC processes, International Criminal Court, and the UNAMID forces on the ground. So, I came here to participate and to talk to people about the current situation in Darfur.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: There has been a strong movement in the United States of students and faith-based groups and a wide coalition of groups working to make sure that Darfur remains in the headlines. I was just curious, from your perspective, what difference that has made, if any.

ADEEB YOUSIF: In fact, I am very thankful for the people in the United States. What I have seen here in the United States people, they are willing to help people on the ground. I have never seen it elsewhere in the world. I have been to Europe, I have been in Africa; I have been in Africa in different countries. But the United States is completely different. People here, they are very active in ending the genocide in Darfur. They are willing to help the people in Darfur. And this is-- and even me to be here, I have been assisted by people from the United States like Sharon Silver I thank her very, very much. She is the one gave me hope to continue my work. And she is one that helped me with her group to handle different activities on the ground. She is the one that helped me to form three different human rights societies in Darfur […] And she is one who gave me hope always. So people here in the United States, they are very involved positively in ending the genocide in Darfur. Therefore, the government of Sudan, they hate the Americans. Even they don't give them visa to go to help the people in the humanitarian aid.

BRIDGET CONLEY-ZILKIC: Adeeb, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with me and you know you're always welcome anytime you're back. I would love to hear another update and I hope it's better.

ADEEB YOUSIF: Thank you very much.

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