<DOC> [108 Senate Hearings] [From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access] [DOCID: f:91211.wais] S. Hrg. 108-254 THE NEWS CORPORATION/DIRECTV DEAL: THE MARRIAGE OF CONTENT AND GLOBAL DISTRIBUTION ======================================================================= HEARING before the SUBCOMMITTEE ON ANTITRUST, COMPETITION POLICY AND CONSUMER RIGHTS of the COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY UNITED STATES SENATE ONE HUNDRED EIGHTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ JUNE 18, 2003 __________ Serial No. J-108-18 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 91-211 WASHINGTON : 2003 _______________________________________________________________________ For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800, DC area (202) 512-1800 Fax: (202) 512-2250 Mail: stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402-0001 COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah, Chairman CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts JON KYL, Arizona JOSEPH R. BIDEN, Jr., Delaware MIKE DeWINE, Ohio HERBERT KOHL, Wisconsin JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin LARRY E. CRAIG, Idaho CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York SAXBY CHAMBLISS, Georgia RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois JOHN CORNYN, Texas JOHN EDWARDS, North Carolina Bruce Artim, Chief Counsel and Staff Director Bruce A. Cohen, Democratic Chief Counsel and Staff Director ------ Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition Policy and Consumer Rights MIKE DeWINE, Ohio, Chairman ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah HERBERT KOHL, Wisconsin ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont LINDSEY O. GRAHAM, South Carolina RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin SAXBY CHAMBLISS, Georgia JOHN EDWARDS, North Carolina Peter Levitas, Majority Chief Counsel and Staff Director Jeffrey Miller, Democratic Chief Counsel C O N T E N T S ---------- STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS Page DeWine, Hon. Mike, a U.S. Senator from the State of Ohio......... 1 prepared statement........................................... 64 Hatch, Hon. Orrin G., a U.S. Senator from the State of Utah, prepared statement............................................. 76 Kohl, Hon. Herbert, a U.S. Senator from the State of Wisconsin... 3 prepared statement........................................... 92 Leahy, Hon. Patrick J., a U.S. Senator from the State of Vermont. 4 prepared statement........................................... 93 WITNESSES Cleland, Scott, Chief Executive Officer, Precursor Group, Washington, D.C................................................ 13 Hartenstein, Eddy W., Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, DirecTV, Inc., Phoenix, Arizona................................ 8 Kimmelman, Gene, Senior Director for Advocacy and Public Policy, Consumers Union, Washington, D.C............................... 11 Miron, Robert, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Advance/ Newhouse Communications, Tampa, Florida........................ 10 Murdoch, Rupert, Chairman and Chief Executive, The News Corporation, Ltd., New York, New York.......................... 6 QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS Responses of Scott C. Cleland to questions submitted by Senator DeWine......................................................... 36 Responses of Scott C. Cleland to questions submitted by Senator Kohl........................................................... 38 Responses of Eddy Hartenstein to questions submitted by Senator DeWine and Senator Kohl........................................ 40 Responses of Robert Miron to questions submitted by Senator DeWine......................................................... 45 Responses of Robert Miron to questions submitted by Senator Kohl. 47 Responses of Rupert Murdoch to questions submitted by Senator DeWine and Senator Kohl........................................ 48 SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD Cleland, Scott, Chief Executive Officer, Precursor Group, Washington, D.C., prepared statement........................... 60 Hartenstein, Eddy W., Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, DirecTV, Inc., Phoenix, Arizona, prepared statement............ 67 Kimmelman, Gene, Senior Director for Advocacy and Public Policy, Consumers Union, Washington, D.C., prepared statement.......... 78 Miron, Robert, Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Advance/ Newhouse Communications, Tampa, Florida, prepared statement and attachments.................................................... 95 Murdoch, Rupert, Chairman and Chief Executive, The News Corporation, Ltd., New York, New York, prepared statement...... 153 THE NEWS CORPORATION/DIRECTV DEAL: THE MARRIAGE OF CONTENT AND GLOBAL DISTRIBUTION ---------- WEDNESDAY, JUNE 18, 2003 United States Senate, Subcommittee on Antitrust, Competition Policy, and Consumer Rights, of the Committee on the Judiciary, Washington, DC. The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:37 p.m., in room SD-226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Mike DeWine, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding. Present: Senators DeWine, Specter, Kohl, and Leahy. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. MIKE DEWINE, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF OHIO Chairman DeWine. Well, good afternoon and welcome to the Antitrust Subcommittee hearing on the proposed transaction between News Corporation and DIRECTV. Just 15 months ago, this Subcommittee held a hearing to examine another deal involving DIRECTV, the proposed merger between EchoStar and DIRECTV. Many had expressed alarm about that proposed merger, and ultimately the Justice Department and the FCC moved to block the deal. The News Corporation/DIRECTV deal we are examining today is fundamentally different, of course, from the merger that we examined 15 months ago. Unlike the prior deal, this one does not involve two companies that are direct competitors. Instead, News Corporation and DIRECTV compete in different markets. The United States, News Corporation competes primarily as a programmer, owning such properties as the Fox Network and cable networks, such as Fox News Channel and numerous regional sports networks. As a result of this ownership, News Corporation provides some of the most popular programming in the United States. DIRECTV competes as a distributor of multichannel video programming, providing direct satellite service to over 11 million subscribers. DIRECTV carries News Corporation programming, and other programming, to subscribers. Thus, this deal is a vertical deal, involving a combination between a supplier of programming, News Corporation, and a distributor of programming, DIRECTV. Vertical combinations, like this one, can potentially create efficiencies for the combining parties and benefits for consumers. Vertical deals also, however, can raise competitive concerns, though typically fewer and different kinds of concerns than those raised by deals between direct ``horizontal'' competitors. Deals such as this one may also raise policy concerns that do go beyond antitrust issues. In our hearing today, we will explore both the potential efficiencies and benefits of News Corporation's combination with DIRECTV and the concerns that the deal raises. News Corporation and DIRECTV argue that numerous benefits will flow from their merger. News Corporation will bring its years of experience as a satellite operator in other countries and its record as an aggressive, innovative competitor to the American video marketplace. For example, in other countries, News Corporation--or News Corp--has introduced several interactive features, such as interactive shopping and interactive games with its satellite services. If, in fact, News Corp is successful in strengthening the competitive offerings of DIRECTV, that would like force EchoStar and the cable systems to improve their product as well, to the benefit of pay-TV consumers. More specifically, the parties plan to explore aggressively expanding DIRECTV's local-into-local service into more of the 210 local television markets. This is an important potential benefit, and we will examine carefully how the parties plan to expand that service, and we will examine other potential benefits as well. Additionally, we must examine the concerns that have been raised about this deal. First and foremost, we must examine concerns that this deal will lead to higher prices for both cable and DBS subscribers. In short, the scenario that critics fear most is one in which News Corp raises prices to DIRECTV, then wields DIRECTV as a club to batter cable companies into accepting higher prices as well, all at the expense of consumers. More generally, critics of this deal have raised concerns about whether News Corp will use its additional leverage as an anticompetitive weapon to unfairly disadvantage other programmers and distributors. These are complicated issues that need to be examined very carefully. To their credit, the parties have proposed ways to address some of these concerns. Specifically, News Corp has promised that it will abide by the program access rules, even under circumstances when those rules technically would not apply to a News Corp or DIRECTV combination. News Corp also plans to establish an Audit Committee of the DIRECTV board of directors, which would ensure News Corp deals fairly with DIRECTV. We plan on exploring whether these protections are sufficient to ease the concerns that have been raised about this deal. Finally, we also look beyond the confines of this specific deal to its broader implications for competition in the industry. This Subcommittee has to ask whether the News Corp or DIRECTV transaction will set in motion a series of mergers between larger content companies and distributors. Such consolidation might leave the media in the hands of fewer and fewer vertically integrated companies, companies with enough market power to effectively exclude independent programmers and raise prices, both to the detriment of American consumers and the marketplace of ideas. Clearly, this is an important transaction which, if approved, would have a significant impact on how American consumers receive their news, their information, their sports and their entertainment. We have a lot to discuss today, and I look forward to hearing from our witnesses. Now, let me turn to Senator Kohl, the Ranking Member of this committee. Senator Kohl? STATEMENT OF HON. HERBERT KOHL, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF WISCONSIN Senator Kohl. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As you said, a little more than a year ago, we sat in this room to examine EchoStar's attempt to acquire DIRECTV. That deal would have created a monopoly in satellite television and limited most consumers to only two choices for pay TV--the cable company and one satellite company. We opposed that merger and, wisely, both the Justice Department and the FCC decided to block it. This year, it is News Corporation's turn to try to acquire DIRECTV, a deal presenting an entirely different set of issues. One of the world's largest media conglomerates, with holdings ranging from the Fox TV network, the Fox News Channel, Fox Sports Net, FX cable networks, the Twentieth Century Fox movie studio, 35 broadcast television stations, to newspapers like the New York Post and magazines like TV Guide, is seeking to acquire the DIRECTV satellite system, the Nation's second- largest television distribution system. This combination of content holdings with worldwide distribution will create a media powerhouse of virtually unmatched size and scope. The overriding fear is that News Corp/DIRECTV will take advantage of their global distribution system and must-have programming to raise prices and squeeze out competition. Mr. Murdoch and Mr. Hartenstein will claim several benefits offered by this deal--a stronger DIRECTV, fortified by its corporate connection to News Corp, deploying new technologies better able to compete with cable TV. But, for us, the crux of the matter is what matters most to consumers--the deal's likely effect on the ever-rising prices paid by consumers for pay TV and on the choice and variety of programming available. So, to convince us that this deal is truly in the public interest, Mr. Murdoch and Mr. Hartenstein must answer some difficult questions. Namely, will this deal create a vertically integrated media giant capable of raising the price of its programming and excluding other programmers from its powerful distribution network? And will this deal set in motion a chain of mergers as content companies and distributors find it necessary to merge to compete with News Corp/DIRECTV? And will this deal harm competition in the marketplace of ideas and further degrade the diversity of news, information and entertainment available to the American public. News Corp has preemptively pledged to adhere to a number of commitments should this deal be approved. This demonstrates, we believe, their understanding that antitrust authorities are going to have concerns. So we will ask you, Mr. Murdoch, to agree to several other legally binding and enforceable conditions, consistent with your already announced pledges. Your answers, we believe, will demonstrate whether you are truly serious about avoiding any injury to competition. Mr. Murdoch, we will ask you: Number one, to make all News Corporation programming, cable channels and broadcast TV stations available to DIRECTV's competitors on the same terms as they are made available to DIRECTV; Two, to avoid any unreasonable price increases in the cost of NewsCorp programming; Three, to allow News Corp programming rivals equal access to DIRECTV, including with respect to channel placement and tiering; and, Number four, to work to substantially increase the number of markets covered by local-into-local service and broadband access with specific targets on specific dates. To date, consumers of pay TV have continued to suffer ever- increasing prices and ever-greater consolidation. We need to examine this merger carefully to ensure that, for a change, the promised benefits are truly realized. And so we thank our distinguished panel for being here today, and we look forward to having a full and complete discussion. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman DeWine. Senator Leahy? STATEMENT OF HON. PATRICK J. LEAHY, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF VERMONT Senator Leahy. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I am appreciative of the fact that you and Senator Kohl are holding this hearing. The merger, actually, the larger issue of media consolidation is very important to Senators on both sides of the aisle, and I commend the two of you for following what has been the normal bipartisan way you have approached these subjects. We are aware of the dangers of corporate consolidation, especially in the information and entertainment industries, where the First Amendment, as well as the antitrust laws, have significant roles to play. A hearing like this is very timely because we try to protect both the marketplace, but also our freedom of speech, which I feel the First Amendment, the most underpinning of our whole democracy. Now, no one in this room could have missed the firestorm of debate and outcry that accompanied the Federal Communications Commission's recent changes in the media ownership rules. I know those changes do not directly touch on the merger here today, but they are a tangible piece of the puzzle we are all trying so hard to solve. The Commerce Committee, I believe, is meeting tomorrow. We are going to have a hearing on media concentration next week, and meanwhile the FCC continues to roll back the regulations that were designed to preserve a diversity of programming options, a host of editorial choices and voices. And as soon as you could this homogenization of programming, that is not going to help viewers or listeners. I know it is true in a rural State like Vermont, where we have demonstrated with our town meetings that we like independence, and we like a diversity of views, but I suspect that is the same everywhere. Then, when you add the likelihood that increasingly powerful media conglomerates can raise the prices consumers pay, at the same time they can reduce the quality of their programming, both in quality, and in quantity, and in content and even technologically, the implications of unfettered media conglomeration to the American people and to our communities and to our society is very troubling. I think that is where we are today. I wrote to the FCC, when the rule changes were under consideration, there are those who argue that the increase in the number of media outlets has obviated the need for the rules limiting media ownership. That is not so. The number of media outlets has increased and ownership has become more concentrated. There are certainly fewer opinions among the American people than 1975, when these standards were established, but there are indisputably fewer true avenues for their expression to reach sizable segments of the population. To me, it is illogical that the FCC would exacerbate a disturbing trend which is transforming the marketplaces of ideas into little more than a corporate superstore. The proposed deal between DIRECTV and News Corp is not implicated by these rule changes, but it is an unavoidable truth the atmosphere of concern created by the FCC's actions will color the evaluation of all media deals. Each time that the FCC eases some restriction, we are assured that the ``public interest'' inquiry that the Agency undertakes in such deals will ensure that consumers' legitimate interests are protected. Well, this merger is one deal where we should test that repeated assertion. When the Nation's largest home satellite TV service is purchased by one of the world's largest media companies, it should come as no surprise that people are concerned about the choices consumers will have--something I have raised with Mr. Murdoch and others. Will the new entity discriminate against other distributors like cable companies, and especially small cable companies that serve a lot of rural areas. What about content providers or are they going to pay for News Corp's own popular programming, such as shows on the Fox TV network, or the News Channel and sports channels? Then, I have a couple others, and I will do them briefly, Mr. Chairman, other concerns, especially important to Vermont: The provision of local-into-local television to smaller Designated Market Areas, DMAs, and the roll-out of broadband service to underserved communities. Local-into-local is extremely important to my State. We have the largest percentage or per-capita percentage, I believe, sadly, dish owners of any State in the country. If it is not the first, it is certainly the second. That is because most of our areas cannot get cable. We need local-into-local to find local news and weather, if there is a flood, there is a dangerous condition or anything else. Now, since July 2002, EchoStar has provided local-into- local television to its customers in Vermont. News Corporation has assured me that they want to provide local-into-local TV to Vermont, but they have been unable to answer the question when they will do this. The same holds true for broadband to these underserved areas. Again, News Corporation is hopeful they will be able to provide broadband to potential customers, but unable to provide any time frame. So these are among my concerns, Mr. Chairman. Again, I commend you for holding this hearing. Chairman DeWine. Senator Leahy, thank you very much. We will move to our panel. Mr. Rupert Murdoch, of course, is the Chairman and CEO of the News Corporation. News Corp's holdings include newspapers and magazine publishing on 3 continents, major motion picture and television production and distribution operation, as well as television, satellite and cable broadcast operations worldwide, and of course the Fox broadcasting channel. Mr. Eddy Hartenstein is the Chairman and CEO of DIRECTV. He has headed DIRECTV since its inception in 1990 and is currently Chairman of the Satellite Broadcast and Communications Association. He has testified before this Subcommittee previously, and we welcome him back. Mr. Robert Miron is the Chairman and CEO of Advance/ Newhouse Communications, which manages cable television systems serving over 2 million customers. He was elected to the board of directors of the National Cable Television Association in 1983, serving as an officer and member of the Executive Committee for a number of years. He is testifying here today on behalf of Cable One, Cox Communications and Insight Communications. Gene Kimmelman is the senior director of Consumers Union. He is widely respected as an advocate on a broad range of issues in both the areas of cable television and antitrust law. Prior to his tenure at Consumers Union, he served as chief counsel for this Subcommittee and has been a frequent witness for us in recent years. Gene, thank you very much for joining us once again. Scott Cleland is the CEO of the Precursor Group, an independent research/broker dealer. He has testified before numerous Congressional panels on a variety of antitrust and telecommunications issues, including this Subcommittee, and we welcome him back as well. We will follow a 5-minute rule. We are going to be strict about that today because we want to have a lot of time for questions. So we are going to start with Mr. Murdoch. We have your written testimony from everyone, and it is part of the record. We appreciate that. And if you could just give us your summary, anything else that you would like for us to hear. Mr. Murdoch, thank you. STATEMENT OF RUPERT MURDOCH, CHAIRMAN AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE, THE NEWS CORPORATION, LTD. Mr. Murdoch. Thank you very much. Good afternoon, Chairman DeWine. Chairman DeWine. And all of these mikes have to be activated. They are no longer the old mikes where you just spoke into them that we used to have in this Committee. Now, you have to push the button. So, Mr. Murdoch, you are first. Mr. Murdoch. Good afternoon, Chairman DeWine, Senator Kohl, Senator Leahy. Thank you for this invitation to testify today on News Corporation's proposed acquisition of a 34-percent interest in Hughes Electronics Corporation. This transaction will infuse DIRECTV with the strategic vision, expertise and resources necessary to bring increased innovation and robust competition to a multichannel market. The resulting public interest benefits are manyfold and substantial. Today, I would like to tell you specifically why this deal will be good for consumers and good for competition. By combining the expertise and technologies of our two companies, consumers will benefit from the better programming, more advanced technologies and services and greater diversity that we will provide. One of the first enhancements DIRECTV subscribers will enjoy is more local television stations, with the first component of local-into-local service as part of our BSkyB satellite venture 6 years ago, and it remains one of our top priorities. News is committed to dramatically increase DIRECTV's present local-into-local commitment of 100 DMAs by providing local-into-local service in as many of the 210 DMAs as possible and to do so as soon as economically and technology feasible. In addition, News is exploring new technologies that promise to expand the amount of high-definition television content on DIRECTV, and News will work aggressively to build on the broadband services already provided by Hughes. News will also bring a wealth of new services direct to DIRECTV subscribes from BSkyB in the United Kingdom, including interactive news and sports and access to on-line shopping, banking, games, e-mail and information services, and we will infuse Hughes with our deep and proven commitment to equal opportunity and diversity, including more diverse programming and a variety of mentoring, executive development and internship programs. You can count on these enhancements because innovation and consumer focus is in our company's DNA. We have a long and successful history of defying conventional wisdom and challenging market leaders, whether they be the ``big three'' broadcast networks, the previously dominant cable news channel or the entrenched sports establishment. We started as a small newspaper company and grew by providing competition and innovation in stale, near monopolistic markets. It is our firm intention to continue that tradition with DIRECTV. With these consumer benefits, DIRECTV will become a more formidable competitor to cable and thus enhance the competitive landscape of the entire multichannel industry. To that end, I should note that there are no horizontal or vertical merger concerns arising from this transaction. The transaction does result in a vertical integration of assets because of the association of DIRECTV's distribution platform and News Corp's programming interests, but this is not anticompetitive for two reasons: First, neither company has sufficient power in its relevant market to be able to act in an anticompetitive manner. Second, neither News, nor DIRECTV, has any incentive to engage in anticompetitive behavior. As a programmer, News Corp's business model is predicated on achieving the widest possible distribution to maximizing advertising revenue and subscriber fees. Similarly, DIRECTV has every incentive to draw from the widest spectrum of attractive programming, regardless of its source. Nevertheless, we have agreed to a series of program access undertakings to eliminate any concerns over the competitive effects of this transaction. We have asked the FCC to adopt these program access commitments as a condition of the approval of our application. Viewed from another perspective, neither News, nor Hughes, is among the top five media companies, by expenditure, in the United States. As you can see in the chart attached to my testimony, News is sixth, with 2.8 percent of total industry expenditures, and Hughes is eighth, with 2.2 percent. Even combined, the companies would rank no higher than fifth, half the size of the market leader. In closing, I believe this transaction represents an exciting association between two companies, with the assets, the experience, and the history of innovation to ensure DIRECTV can provide better service to consumers and become an even more effective competitor. Thank you for your attention. I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Murdoch appears as a submission for the record.] Chairman DeWine. Mr. Hartenstein? STATEMENT OF EDDY W. HARTENSTEIN, CHAIRMAN AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF DIRECTV, INC. Mr. Hartenstein. Chairman DeWine, Senator Kohl, Senator Leahy and members of the Subcommittee, who I presume will come, I appreciate the opportunity to tell you why the split-off of Hughes from General Motors and the purchase of a 34-percent interest in Hughes by News Corp. will benefit consumers throughout the United States, whether they are current or prospective DIRECTV subscribers, or even current cable subscribers. As a direct result of this transaction, DIRECTV will be able to improve its service offerings and provide a stronger, more competitive alternative to cable. Until 1994, there were no serious competitive alternatives to the dominant cable operators. With the launch of DIRECTV, exactly 9 years ago yesterday, consumers gained access to an alternate provider that offered more channels, and superior picture and sound quality. But it was not until November of 1999, when Congress changed the law to allow satellite carriers to retransmit local broadcast channels, that DBS was able to truly offer a competitive alternative to cable, at least in those markets in which DBS operators, such as ourselves, provide local channels. The benefits to consumers from DBS competition to cable have been tremendous. In a direct response to DBS competition, cable operators have aggressively upgraded their services, and it is forecast that in the very near future, for the first time, the number of digital cable subscribers will exceed the total number of DBS subscribers in this country. Such developments underscore the need for DBS operators to keep pushing the competitive envelope to preclude satellite TV customers from being left behind. DIRECTV is already on this course. Today, we offer local channels in 61 markets and are on track to meet our goal of more than 100 markets, upon the successful launch of our eighth satellite by year end. In just 12 days, we will expand our high-definition television programming services to 6 channels nationwide. But we simply cannot stop there. In order to continue improving our services, it is critical that we keep expanding DIRECTV's programming offers and keep providing new and innovative services to consumers. At a time when DIRECTV requires capital to continue to innovate and compete, however, GM is focused on improving its core automotive operations and addressing the need to provide funding for its U.S. pension plans. DIRECTV must pursue new initiatives to remain competitive with cable, which will require additional funding. GM cannot provide such funding because of the resulting downward pressure on GM's credit rating. GM has recognized that an independent Hughes and DIRECTV will have more flexibility to obtain the kind of financing that it--DIRECTV--needs to continue to grow and stay competitive into the future. GM identified with us News Corp. as an ideal partner for Hughes and DIRECTV because of its proven track record as a global direct-to-home service provider. And with News Corp's support, we intend to increase the number of television markets in which DIRECTV provides local broadcast channels as quickly as technologically and economically feasible. Consumers residing in those local markets will be able to obtain satellite-delivered local news, weather and sports, and cable operators in those same smaller markets will be forced to improve their services in response. For those consumers, it is a win-win. Through our combined efforts, we intend to expand even further the number of high-definition channels that we offer which, in turn, should accelerate consumers' adoption of high- definition reception equipment nationwide. Historically, News Corp. has produced and supported a wealth of culturally, ethnically, and linguistically diverse programming through its Fox film divisions, television network and broadcast stations. We plan to tap into News Corp's resources to expand DIRECTV's already diverse program offerings. In sum, the future looks bright for DIRECTV. Independence from GM and the investment by News Corp. will allow DIRECTV to improve and expand its services for consumers, a result that will be manifestly in the public interest. Now, I realize, Chairman, Senator, that I appeared before this very Subcommittee just over a year ago touting the benefits of a different transaction. As you know, the Justice Department and the FCC prevented us, as you suggested, from consummating that transaction. I believe that the current transaction raises none of the concerns that the DOJ and the FCC cited in connection with the prior transaction, and for that reason, I am hopeful that those agencies will allow us to move forward quickly with the News Corp. transaction so that we may continue aggressively to pursue the strategy we have pursued since our launch in 1994, which is to offer the best competitive alternative to cable possible. I appreciate the opportunity to share my views and look forward to your questions. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Hartenstein appears as a submission for the record.] Chairman DeWine. Good. Mr. Miron? STATEMENT OF ROBERT MIRON, CHAIRMAN AND CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER, ADVANCE/NEWHOUSE COMMUNICATIONS Mr. Miron. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. In addition to our company, I am testifying today on behalf of Cable One, Cox Communications and Insight Communications. Together, these companies serve nearly 10 million cable television homes in 31 States. We thank you, Mr. Chairman, and we thank Senator Kohl and Senator Leahy for this opportunity. No doubt, News Corp's acquisition of DIRECTV can benefit competition. However, what we find troubling is that the acquisition will give News Corp unique and unprecedented power and incentive to raise the cost of programming to providers, and thus consumers in all three multichannel platforms: cable, Direct and EchoStar. Our concerns are magnified by the possibility, and perhaps even the likelihood, that this transaction will be followed by a similar consolidation involving EchoStar. Today, there are vertically integrated companies that combine powerful programming assets with cable system ownership, but no cable company currently has the potential to serve more than about one-third of American homes. None comes to close to the geographic reach of Direct, which is present in every television market. None currently owns broadcast stations inside cable markets, while News Corp owns and operates 35 stations within Direct's national service area, including 9 in the top ten markets and 16 in the top 20. It is already hard enough to negotiate with the 4 companies that combine ownership of broadcast networks, broadcast stations and cable networks. Retransmission consent negotiations involve not just the carriage of broadcast stations, but how much cable operators will pay to the broadcast stations' affiliated cable networks and how many new affiliated networks they will need to carry. Inevitably, cable operators face demands for carriage of these affiliated channels on their most watched tier of programming, so that all of our customers have no choice but to pay for them. Like network-affiliated broadcast stations, regional sports networks networks are must-have programming. They present much the same set of negotiating problems for cable operators, and News Corp controls, by far, the largest collection of regional sports networks. News Corp's 18 regional sports networks cover 10 of the top 20 television markets, and each is combined with an ownership of a Fox-affiliated broadcast station. Today's marketplace is workable only because both EchoStar and Direct approached their negotiations with programmers from much the same point of view as cable does. Once Direct becomes a partner of the News Corp stations and networks, our negotiating position will be severely compromised. If a cable operator fails to reach carriage agreements, it will be granting its competitor de facto exclusive carriage of very desirable programming. That is not acceptable, and operators will be forced to concede. So will EchoStar. Prices will go up for Direct customers, EchoStar customers and cable customers. We believe the impact will be substantial nationally. It will be even more severe for small- and mid-size cable operators, many of whom operate in smaller markets and rural areas and who typically pay higher prices for programming than does Direct. News Corp has recognized there are problems and has proposed two conditions: First, they have proposed to comply with the FCC's program access rules, but News Corp has exempted its broadcast stations from the program access commitment. The Fox stations are the big dogs of News Corp's programming complex. Failure to include them in the program access commitment greatly reduces its value. Of equal importance, the program access rules allow News Corp to use the additional power it will gain from control of Direct to raise rates for cable television and EchoStar, so long as they avoid discriminating by also raising rates to Direct. We believe they have the incentive to do just that. Second, News Corp has proposed subjecting related-party transactions to review by an independent Audit Committee of Direct's board. But Audit Committees are best-equipped to find harm to shareholders' interests. Here, the harm is to the marketplace and consumers, not to Direct or its shareholders. Finding this harm is beyond the mandate and the ability of the Audit Committees and independent directors. In our view, News Corp acquisition can operate without harm to the public interest, but only if appropriate conditions can be constructed, in addition to those already proposed, to limit the adverse effects on consumer prices for DBS and cable television. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Miron appears as a submission for the record.] Chairman DeWine. Mr. Kimmelman? STATEMENT OF GENE KIMMELMAN, SENIOR DIRECTOR FOR ADVOCACY AND PUBLIC POLICY, CONSUMERS UNION Mr. Kimmelman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. On behalf of Consumers Union, the Print and on-line publisher of Consumer Reports magazine, I appreciate the opportunity to testify this afternoon about consumer concerns with the News Corp/DIRECTV merger. Senators DeWine, Kohl and Leahy, you will recall, in 1996, Congress passed the Telecommunications Act which launched deregulation of cable television on the theory that satellite television was there to compete against cable, to hold prices down. Well, today, prices are more than 50-percent higher than they were then, rising almost 3 times faster than inflation. Unfortunately this deal will not stop that. As a matter of fact, it may make matters worse. Prices will continue to rise. I hardly ever agree with the cable industry, but I believe Mr. Miron has it exactly right--prices will just keep going up. In the context of the FCC's recent decision to relax media ownership rules, just think of what companies, like News Corp with DIRECTV, will also be able to do: buy a second or a third local broadcast television station in communities across the country, buy the dominant--no, not the dominant--the monopoly newspaper, add more cable properties, radio stations, become the dominant source of local news and information in communities across the country. Tomorrow, the Senate Commerce Committee will begin taking action to undo the FCC's relaxation of media ownership rules, bringing back a promotion of diversity and competition in local news markets. I hope you will join in that effort. But until the FCC's decision is overturned, this transaction, and others likely to spring out of this, pose enormous dangers to consumers. How is that the case? Well, think of it on the national level. News Corp owns a national television network with rights of carriage on all cable systems across the country, 30 broadcast television stations, a major stake in more than 20 cable properties with rights to the most popular professional sports leagues and teams, 67 professional sports teams that are the basketball, baseball and hockey favorites in communities across the country, in-house production studios, and newspapers here and abroad. Then, this company can add more properties at the local level, a second, a third local broadcast station, and newspapers, and on and on. Is this good for competition? Does this bring more diversity of views from different owners? On the contrary. It consolidates, at a dangerous level, the power of few entrepreneurs, with First Amendment rights to control their media properties, to define what news and information is in the local market, to present it as they see fit, and to, unfortunately, undermine the potential for competition across all technologies, the kind of competition we hope for with deregulation. I believe consumers' interests cannot be served by this transaction unless significant conditions are imposed by the FCC, by the Congress, and very strict antitrust enforcement is pursued to ensure that prices do not rise for cable and satellite customers. Why would they rise? Just think about it. With all of those stations, all of those cable properties, and the very expensive television rights to professional sports teams, Mr. Murdoch is in the position of bundling that programming and raising the input costs for all of his satellite and cable competitors. His promise will do nothing to prevent prices from going up. As a matter of fact, it enables him to signal the market that everyone's prices go up. Cable may not like it, but why not pay those higher prices, when every satellite company also pays those prices. Everyone pays more, the consumer pays more. That is not the kind of competition that benefits the marketplace. So we believe antitrust officials, through tough enforcement, that conditions placed on this deal by the FCC are absolutely critical, and most importantly, we believe Congress must act. It is time to overturn the FCC's relaxation of media ownership. It is time to prevent consolidation of multiple broadcast, cable and newspaper properties with content distribution. And it's time to prohibit companies like News Corp, combined with DIRECTV, and others with market power over distribution systems from preventing consumers, choice to pick the programming they want, get it at a fair price while ensuring that there is competition in the marketplace. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [The prepared statement of Mr. Kimmelman appears as a submission for the record.] Chairman DeWine. Mr. Cleland? STATEMENT OF SCOTT CLELAND, CHIEF EXECUTIVE OFFICER OF THE PRECURSOR GROUP Mr. Cleland. Mr. Chairman and Senators Kohl and Leahy, thank you for the honor to testify as an independent analyst who represents institutional investors in our business. My overall view, when you look at this merger, from an antitrust perspective, is I do not think this merger is anticompetitively going to hurt consumers and competitors. So while I think it does not necessarily raise antitrust concerns, I do think there are legitimate and significant First Amendment and public policy issues that are raised by this that are most appropriately dealt with in the FCC arena or in the legislative arena, but not necessarily as conditions to a merger. Now, we also, my Precursor Group, when we talk to investors about this, you should also know we have advised them we thought that this deal would get approved by the Government and that we thought it would create value. Now, what I think I can do for you today that is helpful and give you some insight is I think this deal is a lot less about pricing than it is about technology and about correcting some business-model weaknesses, and so I would like to run through 7 dynamics that are going on with News Corp that are motivating News Corp and DIRECTV to get together. This is not just about negotiations or pricing. The first is, is they need to make the transition from analogue to digital. As you all know, the over-the-air broadcast has been, the transition to digital has been snake- bit, and very slow, and very expensive. It is essentially all pain and no gain. With this transaction, they can make the leap from an analogue business model to a digital model. In one leap, they also can go from a regional platform to a national platform, the second thing. The third thing is they are going to be able to change their business model from an advertising-based model, which is very economically sensitive with economic cycles to a subscription-based model which is less-economically sensitive. It will also allow them to go from single channel to multichannel. The clear trend in pay TV is towards niche programming and having the technology that enables you to narrow cast and have many channels is the wave of the future. So this enables them to do that. The other thing it does is it allows them to move from a very unsecured platform to a more secure platform. You have over-there broadcasters up here asking for help because the technology today enables people to easily pirate digital content. And when you make a digital copy of one copy, you can make a billion of them. And so the technology here, and there is a need and a desire for News Corp to move its content off of an analogue, more vulnerable, easily pirated technology, to one where they have more control to protect their value. The other thing is that they are making a shift from a depreciating business model to an appreciating one. I mean, they are shifting horses kind of mid race. The over-there broadcast model is way past its prime. It should be put out to pasture, and essentially the DBS technology is more like a thoroughbred, and they are switching horses I think quite wisely. And the last thing is, and that is the subject of this discussion and why you all are having this very important discussion, is that it does shift from an unleveraged business model to a leveraged one, and the reality is, is when you are negotiating, and Mr. Miron is right, is that you do have more negotiating leverage, you are taken more seriously at the negotiating table when you are a content provider and when you are a distributor. So that does create legitimate issues that should be discussed here. Now, what I also would like to give you some insight is about what may be coming down the pike. I think Mr. Murdoch, at least from an investment standpoint and a business standpoint, is making the right decision. He recognizes these very serious business-model weaknesses, and for 6 years has tried to merge with a DBS provider. I am surprised that Disney and Viacom do not share the strategic vision, and I believe, in the future, you will probably see a transaction that will involve EchoStar coming at you down the pike. So, to wrap up, I do not think that this is an anticompetitive deal. This does not raise any more issues than, say, the Comcast/AT&T issue did, and I would also like to point out that one of the interesting things, as a kind of independent observer, is that News Corp has consistently been what is called a ``maverick'' competitor. They are an insurgent. They tend to be very disruptive and very good for the marketplace. My time is up. I will conclude. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. [The prepared statement of Mr. Cleland appears as a submission for the record.] Chairman DeWine. Well, we thank you very much. You all gave very interesting testimony, and you all were right on time, too. I appreciate that. We have a vote that started. We are going to stop now, and we will be back in 12/13 minutes, probably. [Recess from 3:22 p.m. to 3:41 p.m.] Chairman DeWine. Mr. Miron, Mr. Kimmelman, you paint kind of a scary picture for us, and I would like to explore that with you and then try to get Mr. Murdoch's response. Mr. Miron, let me put it on a personal basis. I am a Cincinnati Reds fan, I also have DIRECTV, and so I get the Cincinnati Reds on Fox Sports Net. I watched them last weekend when I was home in my home in Cedarville, Ohio. My dad is a Cincinnati Reds fan. He watches them in Yellow Springs, Ohio, on cable TV. He also, of course, watches them on Fox Sports Net. So you are telling me that we both should be nervous about this deal? We are going to be paying more, are we, Mr. Kimmelman, Mr. Miron? Mr. Kimmelman. I would like to answer-- Chairman DeWine. It is bad for us as consumers, is it? Mr. Kimmelman. I think it is, Mr. Chairman. Being a born Cincinnatian, a Cincinnati Reds fan ever since I think I was 5 years old-- Chairman DeWine. You are ingratiating yourself to the Chairman, I can tell, Mr. Kimmelman, but that is okay. That is all right. [Laughter.] Mr. Kimmelman. It happens to be true. If I still lived in that territory, I would be extremely worried because I know that one of the main reasons I would want cable or I would want satellite would be to watch the Reds. Chairman DeWine. Frankly, it is the only reason I got DIRECTV, and that is the truth. It certainly was not to watch-- well, we will not go into that. [Laughter.] Mr. Kimmelman. I would be concerned that if Mr. Miron was my cable operator, and I was sitting there and was being told that because the price went up he was considering not putting it on the air, I would have to look at DIRECTV because I want it. Now, like many consumers, there is a lot of frustration about the cost of cable going up and the inability to choose the channels that you want. Most consumers only watch about a dozen channels, and yet they get 50 or 60, and they have to keep being told that you should be happy to pay more because you are getting more, and they do not want them. What I am afraid, we wanted satellite to be the kind of competitor that would come in aggressively and would challenge cable with discounts, and they have tried, to some extent. Their equipment costs are very high. Mr. Hartenstein is absolutely right. They have done an admirable job, but their costs are high, and getting a second set hook-up and getting a high-speed service is expensive, and it just has not so far really cut into cable price increases, unfortunately. And what I am afraid of is this transaction, with a company that makes a lot of its money from programming, and the ability to bundle that with its over-the-air network and say, This is what we are charging. If you do not want it, you are not going to have it on your cable system. We will just put it on DIRECTV, is likely to raise prices for everybody. Chairman DeWine. Mr. Miron, do you want to weigh in here? Mr. Miron. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, was a--I remember Johnny Bench, and Joe Morgan, and was a fan. I think our goal is really to protect the uninterrupted flow of Fox product to consumers at reasonable prices. And this transaction could undo that, since all 3 platforms now, today, negotiate and everybody tries to get the best price, and things could change if Mr. Murdoch owned DIRECTV. DIRECTV could make a deal to carry Fox Sports at a higher rate and then negotiate with the cable company to pay the same rate. If the cable company refused to pay that rate, Direct would, in effect, have de facto exclusivity of that product. And if the cable company could not stand the pressure, Cincinnati fans would want to go subscribe to DIRECTV, they would give in and pay the price, and that would have a tendency the force the prices up. I think that is one of our serious concerns. Chairman DeWine. Mr. Murdoch? Should I be afraid, Mr. Murdoch? Should my father be afraid of this? What is your answer to that? Mr. Murdoch. I do not think so, Mr. Chairman. I cannot claim to be a fan of the Cincinnati Reds, and I am sorry. Chairman DeWine. No, I hope not. I would surely hope not. I was waiting for that one. [Laughter.] Mr. Murdoch. But the fact of the matter is the marketplace handles this. We do not--we were quoted as owning 18 or 19 regional sports networks--we, in fact, control only 10 of those. Our name is carried on about 19, and then we now have a small minority or they are associates of ours. If I could quote a, it was a private conversation with Mr. Ergen of EchoStar a couple of months ago, saying, Thank God for Fox because it brings all of these teams together and charges like $1 or $1.50 a month, depending on what tier they are on or whatever, if each team, otherwise each team will have its own network like the Yankees, and everybody paying about $8 a month. And I think Fox provides a very good service here. It also provides a limited sort of competition to ESPN, which is much needed, and I am sure Mr. Miron would agree with that. I do not know what they are going on about. I mean, our record here on pricing--first of all, let me just say this. Direct's record, it launched in 1994 with 50 channels at a price of $29.95. Today, it sells its biggest package of 100 channels for $33.99, an increase, over 9 years, of $4.04, totally unlike our friends down the table here. Fox has been dealing productively with the cable industry for years, giving them programming they want, on mutually acceptable terms, and at the same time getting the value from retransmission consent that Congress envisioned in the 1992 Cable Act in growing our business. Retransmission consent is something quite different to program access. One applies to cable and satellite or we are making it apply to satellite, and the other has to do with broadcasting. And all we ask for is a level playing field. If they want to change that statute on retransmission, let them go ahead. It has got to apply to everybody. The effort of Mr. Miron and his associates here is simply to try and stop us from being competitive in any way they can. On this question of our relationship with cable, the smallest cable systems that have Fox programming on them, 300 of them, they just were granted retransmission consent without any conversation, without even any discussion. The major ones, perhaps the biggest 10 companies, have more like 90 percent of the market. I think 6 companies have over 80 percent of the market. We do, indeed, negotiate with and see what we can get. And we have had over the last couple of years I think 150--I have got them here--separate deals for carriage on those cable companies for cable channels, which we have started . Our record, wherever you look, has been as a price-cutter, as a competitor and as a provider of new choice in what we do, and we intend to continue that here. What really shocks me, frankly, is that Mr. Miron has allowed himself to be used by Cox to front for this effort here. They are privately owned entity, they are the fourth biggest cable operator in the country, they have programming services, they have leading, big TV stations--a bit more about that in a minute--large monopoly newspapers and many multi- radio station groupings in different cities. In fact, when Mr. Kimmelman was sort of fantasizing about the future of News Corp, I thought he was describing Cox Communications today. To get Fox News started, for instance, we have had to pay special payments to cable companies of over $640 million. Fifty-one million of that went to Cox, in addition to which they made us sign a 10-year unbreakable, exclusive affiliation agreement for their large television station in San Francisco, which stops News Corp or Fox from really ever having an investment in television in San Francisco, a major market. So they are well able to, they are big boys, they are quite capable of looking after themselves. I am not complaining. These have been vigorous negotiations, but to cry poor and to try and tie us down is something which I think is just outrageous. Chairman DeWine. Mr. Miron, do you want to respond to that? Mr. Miron. I certainly cannot respond to the particulars of the Cox situation, but we certainly do not believe any of the issues we are raising will have a limiting effect on Direct's ability to compete. We are simply concerned, and we have had negotiations with Fox over the years, and they are strained, but we have always managed to eventually come to an agreement. We have had an occasional service interruption, but we think that, with DIRECTV, the incentive for possible, for this to change, would be much greater, and so we have genuine concern that if this happens, it will create some, as I said before, de facto exclusive product programming. Chairman DeWine. Mr. Kimmelman, and then my time is up, and we will turn to Senator Kohl. Mr. Kimmelman, last comment. Mr. Kimmelman. Mr. Chairman, I would just like to respond on this level. We certainly have problems with Cox, where it dominates the market, and we have raised concerns in the media ownership proceeding about some of that, but we did not have time, in the 5 minutes, to go through all of what News Corp owned here that is relevant to the Cincinnati Reds situation. Mr. Murdoch owns substantial stakes in the Dodgers-- Mr. Murdoch. They are for sale. Mr. Kimmelman. The Lakers-- [Laughter.] Mr. Kimmelman. The New York Knicks, the New York Rangers, Dodger Stadium. I mean, he owns it all the way up the chain for many of the sports franchises which are must-see local programming in the community. I have now testified with him 3 times before Congress in the last month. I have not once heard him that he can make cable rates go down through his transaction, that he is going to compete down prices. He has got a different vision of competition. It is admirable, it provides some benefits. I do not disagree with that, but let us be clear here. There is nothing about this transaction that appears likely to drive prices down for watching the Reds or any other team. Mr. Cleland. Could I add to that comment, just to give an insight into the cable market? Chairman DeWine. Sure. Mr. Cleland. I agree, you know, cable rates have not gone down, but generally the DBS pay TV is not a competitive market. It is a Government-manufactured market. There were 4 DBS licenses that were granted. The market would only fund two. EchoStar and DIRECTV are the only ones that survived. And so the reality is we have a 3-person market. Generally, in a 3- provider market, you have competition on service, on packaging, those types of things. Generally, they know, it is oligopoly, they look around, and they say, We do not want to compete on price. It is in none of our interests, and generally it takes a fourth or a fifth or a maverick pricer. And as I said before, I think News Corp is an unusual one in that they have a history of being a maverick pricer and a maverick competitor. Chairman DeWine. Senator Kohl? Senator Kohl. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Murdoch, Mr. Hartenstein, for weeks we have heard you making the promises in order to convince us that your deal will, in fact, be beneficial to consumers. It has been our experience that these promises are soon forgotten, and consumers fail to see sufficiently of the benefits. I would like to discuss your commitments in detail, but before doing so, I would like to ask one question. Are you both willing to commit here today to be subject to an enforceable and legally binding decree either at the FCC or Justice Department that you will implement your promises if this merger is approved? Mr. Murdoch. Yes, sir. That is a condition of the deal. We have written that in and offered that. Senator Kohl. Good. Mr. Hartenstein. Absolutely, sir. Senator Kohl. Good. Mr. Murdoch, your commitments do not limit your ability to raise prices for your programming, as long as you do so on the same terms that you do to DIRECTV; is that a fact? Mr. Murdoch. I am sorry, Senator. You mean that there has been a suggestion that we might raise the price of our programming that we sell to Direct and then try to let it run through. The fact is we do not have that power. It would not be a thing we do because of Direct, it would be because the programs are good, and we would be doing it already. We charge what the market will bear, frankly. Then, there is the other matter, if you think of anything sort of out-of-line that could be done, there is,in spite of all that has been said, a very strong majority of independent directors that are there to look after all of the shareholders. I know we have that in a parallel situation in BSkyB in Britain. It has taken us nearly 3 years to get a Fox channel on for 7 miserable cents per month. These Audit Committees do operate for all of the shareholders, so we are not going to put anything that is uneconomic on Direct. We could not get away with it. Senator Kohl. I do appreciate that. I was simply referring to your ability to do it. Not that you might or might not do it, but that you can do it. Mr. Murdoch. I cannot. Senator Kohl. You cannot do it? Mr. Murdoch. No, I cannot do it because it would go to the--every transaction has to be, between any affiliated company or our company, has to be approved by the Audit Committee of the company, who are independent directors and distinguished businessmen in their own rights, and they are not going to be party to Direct paying anything that is unfair. I mean, you can say they are only worried about the shareholders, not about the public-- Senator Kohl. I do not have a sense of sufficient comfort, with respect to the Audit Committee and its independence. Mr. Murdoch. Well, sir, if I might just, you know, it does fully comply with all of the rules of the FCC, and with the New York Stock Exchange, NASDAQ and the new Sarbanes-Oxley Act. I cannot say more than that. Senator Kohl. Do you want to comment on that, Mr. Kimmelman? Mr. Kimmelman. Senator Kohl, I would just like to say that no one is suggesting News Corp is going to break the law, and no one is suggesting it is particularly unfair to raise your prices if you can get away with it. If cable has to pay a higher price for the Fox network, for FX, for Fox News, for the regional sports channel, and EchoStar has to pay that same higher price or a higher price, then it is not harming DIRECTV to pay approximately that price. And given that they are allowing for volume discounts in their own commitments, they are, with 11 million subscribers, one of to largest-volume providers of multichannel video service, they can probably justify a somewhat lower price than most cable operators or EchoStar would pay. So the terms ``fairness'' or ``legality'' are not the issue here. If the point is will prices go up or go down, I have not heard a word that indicates to me that there is any likelihood they will go down. Senator Kohl. Mr. Murdoch, the Audit Committee will not stop any deal as long as the cable pays the same price. I mean, that is almost self-evident. Mr. Murdoch. If we went to the cable companies first and said, Hey, we want to double all of our charges, and if you do, we will make Direct pay it, you are probably quite correct, but I do not see that happening. Cable, sir, has 80 percent of the market. It is almost a de facto monopoly. Direct has 12 percent of the market. Senator Kohl. Another question, Mr. Murdoch. In the past, you have imposed substantial program rate increases. For example, the Washington Post reported that this year you raise the cost of your Fox Sports programming by more than 30 percent to some cable operators. Would you agree to limit raises and the prices charged for your programming? For example, would you commit not to raise prices for your programming to no more than the national average rate of cable price increases over the past 5 years? Mr. Murdoch. I would have to study that, what the figures are. I do not know of any 30-percent increase. The fact is that all of those charge different prices, and it is sort of a jumble, and there has been a leveling, although some people may have gone up, but it is nothing like ESPN which goes up 20 percent every single year. Who knows. We are not trying to put those prices up. We are just trying to keep what we pay the teams down. Senator Kohl. I think it is essential that the regulators craft some reasonable restrictions on your ability to raise programming prices as a condition of approving this deal. That is an opinion that I hold. Mr. Murdoch. Well, let me take an instance where I think we were entitled to an increase which we will not get for 2 or 3 years because we have a binding legal contract. But Fox News, for instance, gets about half what CNN gets, and yet we deliver double the audience, and you know when those contracts come up, we will certainly look to correct that. I think that is a reasonable economic objective. It is a reasonable business approach. Senator Kohl. Gentlemen, while you have agreed to make your cable television programming available on a discriminatory basis to cable and satellite companies, you have not committed, Mr. Murdoch, you have not committed to do so with respect to your 35 broadcast television stations. And your Fox broadcast stations are among the most powerful programming forces, as you know, in television. Fox is one of the top 4 national networks, one that has popular programming, like professional football, that to many viewers is essential. And yet without such a nondiscriminatory commitment, you could threaten to withhold the rights for EchoStar to any cable or any cable system to carry any Fox network affiliate in exchange for favorable terms, such as the carriage of other News Corp cable systems or programming. Mr. Miron, are you concerned about this scenario, and why do you believe it is dangerous? Mr. Miron. Senator, I would love to comment on a couple of things that Mr. Murdoch said. First, he made the statement that Fox News had a greater rating than CNN and his price was half. We could look at it the same way and say that Fox News has a rating that is greater than the sports channels that he delivers to us, but the sports channels have a far greater rate, and if he wanted to equal the rating, that would be interesting. He said that he will charge what the market will bear. I think that really was the key statement, and I think what we believe is that this transaction will give him added market power, and that added market power, coupled with his statement that he will charge what the market will bear, will bring higher prices to the consumers. Senator Kohl. Mr. Murdoch, will you agree that you will make your broadcast television stations available to competing satellite and cable TV systems on the same terms as they are made available to DIRECTV? Say yes. [Laughter.] Mr. Murdoch. Each transaction is different, but broadly speaking here, but I better look at that before I bind myself on that, sir. Let me just say this. It is absolutely essential, whether it is a cable channel or whether it is our local television station to get every conceivable pair of eyeballs watching you. You do not just go and take yourself away from 80 percent of the market and say we are not going to have this cable system in this city because we do not like Comcast or something or cannot get an agreement with them. That would be totally self-destructive. It is just not possible. The same with, I mean, why do you think I paid, you know, hundreds and hundreds, and probably well over a billion dollars to get cable channels established and get distribution for them? You know, we have bled a lot of money waiting for cable companies, big cable monopolies, to move in their own good time. And we even had Time Warner bar us from the essential market of New York because they own a rival news channel. We had to go to court, we had to fight, we had a huge political fight before we could final settle that. We are not dealing with a bunch of virgins here. Senator Kohl. So was your answer yes or no? Mr. Murdoch. I am not prepared to make commitments about our broadcast license that I would not want to see a majority governed by statute, and I would want to see, if there is a change in that, would that--of course, we would have to agree to any statute--but how would it apply to our competitors? It is a different world, and if we had to do something which NBC, and CBS and ABC are not committed to do, I would have to just approach that with some caution. But if you said would we not charge more than what we would charge Direct or we would do the same, I think that is a reasonable request, but I just, before committing myself, I would really need to talk to my advisers and study it. Senator Kohl. Sure. Mr. Kimmelman? Mr. Kimmelman. Senator Kohl, in 1992, Congress, at the request of the broadcast industry, granted automatic carriage to broadcast networks and the right to bargain for retransmission consent based on one very simple set of facts. Cable was the dominant means by which the American consumer was receiving broadcast network television, and broadcast networks had to go through the cable system. They did not own another transmission system. I will tell you what the difference between News Corp with this transaction is from NBC, CBS and ABC. It owns a new transmission distribution system through DIRECTV. Those companies do not. It has a national network and a satellite distribution system nationwide. The logic of the granted rights by Congress does not, and should not, apply to News Corp if this transaction goes through. The facts will no longer fit the circumstances. Senator Kohl. Mr. Miron, how important is access to sports for cable programmers? What would happen if your customers could not see the local sports teams in their areas because another distributor had exclusive rights to these broadcasts? Mr. Miron. It is very important to us. We would definitely lose subscribers if those subscribers were able to see the services on a DIRECTV platform. We would be at a tremendous disadvantage. Senator Kohl. Mr. Murdoch, let us say your sports programming is carried on the Fox TV network, which, as we have discussed, is not subject to your equal access promises, will you agree that for any sports programming, not now exclusive to DIRECTV, that you will still make it available to DIRECTV's competitors on nondiscriminatory terms; for example, that the World Series will not be moved from Fox TV to DIRECTV exclusively? Mr. Murdoch. Absolutely, sir. I do not guarantee we will always have the World Series. [Laughter.] Mr. Murdoch. The big problem, frankly, in all of this is the future of free broadcast. It is doubtful how long broadcast networks can keep paying for major sports. Senator Kohl. Good. Mr. Murdoch. But that is another issue. Senator Kohl. Thank you. Mr. Murdoch. It all leads to higher prices in cable. If they are going to insist on these prices, they are going to end up on cable networks, whether it is ESPN or a new competitor or someone, and it is going to force pricing to go up. There is a problem, and it has been the work of the marketplace--I am not complaining--but there is a problem because sports is just continually getting more expensive. Chairman DeWine. Senator Specter? Senator Specter. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. I would be surprised if my questions were not repetitious since I was unable to be here earlier, and this very distinguished panel has been testifying for the better part of an hour-and-a-half, interrupted by a vote. Mr. Murdoch, permit me to begin with you. How many communications entities do you presently own? Mr. Murdoch. In this country, sir? Senator Specter. No, take all of the countries. Mr. Murdoch. Let us start with this country, which is about 80 percent of our business. We own the Fox Network, and the Fox Movie Studios, and 30-odd television stations, local television stations. We also own the New York Post and Harper Collins book publishers. In Britain, we own 2 daily newspapers and 2 Sunday newspapers. We have between 20 and 30 percent of the national market of newspapers there. We have a minority investment, such as we are talking about here, in BSkyB, a company I founded in order to challenge the established monopoly in Britain. And then in Australia, we have some local newspapers, in Sydney, in Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide, and we have, if you look at our balance sheets, there are a lot of little things, but these are the main properties. And then we have Star Television in Asia, which is a sort of long-term, start-up big--but we now are broadcasting 37 channels in 6 different languages across China, and India, and the Middle East, and Southeast Asia. They sound a lot, but they are relatively small business to the other things I have described. Senator Specter. An obvious concern, Mr. Murdoch, with that much, by way of ownership, is the issue of concentration of power, which is always a concern, especially with the impact of the media on public opinion and political affairs. Do you consider that to be a legitimate concern? Mr. Murdoch. Not these days. I think there is such a multiplicity of voices everywhere that concentration is hardly possible. I mean, the most powerful, if you are talking about political influence, by far the most powerful company in this country is the New York Times, which services with its news just about every newspaper across the America, and is followed pretty slavishly by the 3 networks and its choice of news, but I am not saying that is bad or that it cannot be competed with. You also have the Wall Street Journal, with a very large circulation, although it is a more specialized one. No, I think, if you look at the country as a whole, that is true. You can look at certain specific markets and say, hey, there is a large monopoly newspaper here and a large city with the number one television station and 5 radio stations, and huge cable interests in the rest of the country, and you can ask questions about that. But even in that case, I am sure there are, you know, there are suburban newspapers, and there are weeklies, and there are other voices. Senator Specter. Mr. Murdoch, when you have-- Mr. Murdoch. I would also say, if I may, Senator, that the power of the press is greatly overstated. We are much flattered by the interest of politicians, but-- Senator Specter. I do not think you will find anyone in the Senate who will agree with you about that. [Laughter.] Mr. Murdoch. I am sure--or any politician anywhere in the world. But I have not noticed them change any election result yet. Senator Specter. Well, that is because you have not been a candidate. [Laughter.] Senator Specter. Mr. Murdoch, when you have such a premier product such as the National Football League and the National Football Conference, and you have the Fox Network, and you have 30 TV stations, and you now seek to acquire a satellite, does that not put you in a position to charge pretty much what you want for rights to watch the National Football League? Speaking as a long-time fan, I think that there are many people who would pay whatever it took to see the Philadelphia Eagles or the Washington Red Skins or the San Francisco 49ers play. And when you have the control of the transmission of those games, and then you have so many of your own stations you can play them on, and then you go to satellite as well, do you not think it is a fair concern that that concentration of power, with that kind of a product, gives you inordinate leverage to establish high prices? Mr. Murdoch. With respect, Senator Specter, no. It is the NFC, for which we pay $550 million a year, is on free, over- the-air television, and there is a real question how long we can continue to pay such prices. If you are talking about the NFL Sunday Ticket, which is on Direct and is exclusive, and which is also enormously expensive, that has been there for some time, and I understand there is a new contract for the next 4 or 5 years, but that has nothing to do with me, and it does not give us any power. I better leave Mr. Hartenstein out of that because he is going to have to make it pay out. Senator Specter. Mr. Kimmelman, what, in the last series of answers by Mr. Murdoch, do you agree with, if anything-- Mr. Kimmelman. Well, I agree when he said-- Senator Specter. --opposed to what you disagree with, but I thought we would start with a presumptively narrower arrange what you agree with. Mr. Kimmelman. Yes, it is a short list. I definitely agree with Mr. Murdoch that there is a danger of concentration in local markets where you have monopoly newspapers buying the number one broadcast station, and I believe he is a bit understating dangers of concentration throughout markets. And it is quite clear to me that, for example, in the Philadelphia market, being able to watch the Eagles is very important to consumers. And if my recollection is correct, when a cable company refused to sell its rights to sports programming, one of the satellite providers in the market found that only about half as many consumers were buying satellite service as in comparable communities in the country, reflecting the fact that they could not sell because consumers would not go where they did not get their local teams. So it is an enormously powerful tool. It is market power at the programming level. I do not disagree with Mr. Murdoch that there is market power in the cable distribution system as well, but we are not serving consumers' interests when the 2 of them are fighting over monopoly rents, over overpricing, as opposed to competitive pricing, and that is the problem with this transaction. It is shifting more power into the hands of one programmer who, with a new distribution system, has too much power in the marketplace to raise prices, not just to satellite customers, but to the other satellite provider and every cable operator because they are dependent on his product as a critical input to serve their customers. Senator Specter. What is the additional factor, illustratively, of saying the New York Yankees, having their own cable, when you have the Atlanta Braves with their own cable outlet, and you have that in other forms, so that people want to watch the New York Yankees, and if you can only get it on cable, it drives up the prices? This Antitrust Subcommittee I have been on for many years, and I commend the Chairman for these hearings, and we try to keep up with these issues, but they are vast, and they are complicated, and they overlap in so many, many directions. And one of the directions involves franchise shifts, and that involves enormous expense on stadiums. In my State, Pennsylvania, we have seen 4 new stadiums built at a total cost in excess of right at a billion dollars, and those stadium costs occur as a direct result of blackmail because those teams are going to go somewhere else or extortion. I have a hard time being a Senator, but I have a pretty good command of blackmail and extortion from my prior practice. But how does the factor of--and that is a little different--but Mr. Murdoch would have a somewhat similar power with the NFL and people who want to see it--how does the factor of, say, the Yankees and their cable stations tie into this overall issue? Mr. Kimmelman. Senator Specter, I think you are hitting a very important point because it would be appropriate for this Subcommittee to look at the leagues and their antitrust immunity under the Sports Broadcasting Act or under common law. That has been a problem that fuels this. I would just point out that Mr. Murdoch is a team owner-- the Dodgers, the Knicks, the Rangers, the Kings, the Lakers, Dodger Stadium--so he is part of that problem on that side as well. This is very, and I am not quibbling with his statement that he pays a lot, whether it is for his players or for his broadcast network, the right to televise games, but that is just institutionalizing overpayments, where the market itself knows there is not competitive pricing. So there is lot of surgery that needs to be done, I would suggest, by the Congress to look at all levels of monopolistic practices, from the Leagues all through the sports broadcasting rights to the cable and satellite distribution systems. Mr. Cleland. Can I add a comment, Senator? Sports are an extraordinary example in the sense that they are like a personal monopoly. If you are a Yankees fan, you do not care to watch anybody else. You want to watch the Yankees. There is one choice. If you are Cincinnati Reds fan, you want to watch the Reds. And so it is our own personal loyalty to sports teams that creates a monopoly in that price. Sports prices have gone up probably more than almost any other product in the economy over a long period of time. We remember when boxing used to be free on ABC Sports on Saturday afternoons. The reason it moved was because the business--they could earn a tremendous amount more money by doing it pay-per- view. And that is the trend, with Fox NFL, the NFL Ticket, that is the trend. They are realizing if they can constrain supply, they can leverage the personal monopoly of sports. Mr. Hartenstein. Senator, if I may, we have been on both sides of this. As you well know, in your State Comcast, to be very specific, has an ownership interest in both the Sixers and the Flyers and, through a loophole in the program access provisions, does not provide the Flyers or Sixers games to satellite. As Mr. Kimmelman indicated, we do not do as well in those territories where they are because we do not have the ability to deliver to our customers there those games. On the flip side, in New York, with the Yankees being carried onthe Yes Network, we made a promise to our customers long ago when we started, almost 9 years ago, that we would provide the regional sports network for their popular teams as part of our basic package to every customer. We bit the bullet. We did it. Cable, or at least some cable in the New York area for the Yankees, did not and it has been very well publicized. In neither case has this been the end of the world, and in all cases, as with NFL Sunday Ticket for us, at the end of the day it comes to consumers and what they are willing to pay. Yes, we have Sunday Ticket, but the percentage of our total subscriber base that takes NFL Sunday Ticket is in the low teens. And it is just the market is a very efficient device in terms of prohibiting us or, for that matter, cable from over charging and gouging. We have gone from zero to almost 12 million subscribers in 8 years. To some that is a damn good start. It is a textbook case in, I think, business school and I think Mr. Ergen at EchoStar would have a similar experience. But at the end of the day, we are still only 12 percent of the homes in America, and we have a long way to go. I think this is all about competition, and what we are trying to do, and I think with News Corp. coming on board as a 34-percent owner, emphasis on 34 percent, is to be the innovator and extend the innovation and competitive alternative that we started. That is all that we are looking for, and I think that is what a lot of the folks are objecting about. They do not like competition. Mr. Miron. Senator, if I might, I think in respect to your original question about Philadelphia, at one point I think Mr. Murdoch was quoted as saying that sports were his, quote, ``battering ram.'' And I think what we would be concerned about in Philadelphia is the retransmission consent that he might use in granting that, the ability to raise the price so that the Philadelphia Eagles would not be carried on a cable system and only on DIRECTV. And that would be part of what would--and if they were carried on cable, it would be because cable had to pay a higher price for that particular channel. Senator Specter. Thank you. Chairman DeWine. Senator Leahy? Mr. Murdoch. Can I just add something to that? I am sorry, Senator. May I? Chairman DeWine. Mr. Murdoch, then Senator Leahy. Mr. Murdoch. I beg your pardon. I just want to-- Senator Leahy. Senator Specter has asked a good question. I just did not hear your answer. Chairman DeWine. Go ahead. Mr. Murdoch. I wanted to say, reaffirm that the sports, which is always free bidding and free market, is carried on free television. We are totally 100 percent dependent on what advertising we get, and we are not about to give away 80 percent of the audience because we would lose 80 percent of our advertising, if not all of it. So it is just not a realistic thought to take it off cable. Chairman DeWine. Senator Leahy? Senator Leahy. I suppose I should be--have all my concerns and doubts put aside in this hearing, I don't. I saw the specter of nothing but nationally produced or geographically homogenized programming on satellite, indeed on cable, and I always worry about claims made. I voted against the--I was one of the few that voted against the Telecommunications Act. I really did not believe the claims that we would all see our cable bills come down. I think mine has doubled or tripled since then. I really did not believe the claim that we would see much better, clearer TV. Most stations, if they are local, I can get a far better picture off rabbit ears than I can off my cable. I was concerned about what many have talked about, that they will just use this--you go to like the so-called HDTV, just use all this extra spectrum to run ads and other businesses, not to give a better picture to the person buying it. But that is a different issue than here. Now, though we hear reassuring pronouncements--and, again, I am concerned, and let me speak to a bit of a bias here. About a third of America lives in what could be called rural America. That is still a whole lot of people. That is about 90 million people. And in most of those areas of rural America, you do not get cable. You only get satellite, if you are going to get it, or over the air--you have to get it over the air somehow. A very important part of America. You cannot write off many million Americans, and you certainly, just as back in the days of Franklin Roosevelt, when a decision was made to bring electricity to rural America and telephones to rural America, to bring them into part of the country. Now, I do not say that just coming from Vermont. We are basically very much a high-tech State. But every single Senator represents some large rural areas. In fact, I know from my childhood and visiting my uncle in Ohio, Senator DeWine has parts of rural Ohio which go way beyond what we think of as rural just because of the distances involved. So that brings me to this. DIRECTV and News Corporation made public pronouncements about the hope of providing service outside large urban areas. I have not heard concrete plans to do so. To pick a State at random, say Vermont, what is the impediment to providing local-into-local TV today in Vermont, for example? I mention this because EchoStar has done so. As I understand, when EchoStar did this, they courted a significant number of customers away from DIRECTV because you could get local programming. I would hope that that would provide an economic incentive for DIRECTV to do the same, but does anybody want to tell me, are they going to compete? Mr. Hartenstein. Sure, Senator. We have our eighth satellite, as I indicated, going up at the end of this year. It happens to be, while being our eighth satellite, our second spot beam satellite. We have not yet done the final testing to determine exactly how many additional markets and which ones in particular that we can cover. We know that we can take our total number of markets up to at least 100, and that will give us coverage of about 85 percent of the country. We will, at the end of this year, which is not that much further away, have the ability to add some more markets, and we hope to be able to oblige at least the Burlington DMA, which is near about, if I understand or remember correctly, the 100th DMA. And so we-- Senator Leahy. I think it is in the high 90's. Mr. Hartenstein. Yes, it is. So, we will look to that and see if it is technically feasible where exactly our spot beams fall. We come from different orbit locations. Senator Leahy. So, in other words, you have no--you are not saying there is--you are not making any commitment. Mr. Hartenstein. I cannot commit-- Senator Leahy. Except to look at it. Mr. Hartenstein. I cannot commit specifically to Burlington today, but we are certainly looking at that and all the other markets that we might be able to cover. Our goal is to get to as many of the homes in America as we possibly can. To answer your earlier question from your opening statement with respect to broadband, we today have a broadband service. It is called DIRECWAY, which works everywhere, including in all parts of Vermont, where by satellite--and it is a Hughes product--we can deliver high-speed broadband Internet via satellite, and we have a-- Senator Leahy. Is that two-way? Mr. Hartenstein. Yes, it is two-way. Yes, sir. Senator Leahy. And is that comparable in price to cable broadband? Mr. Hartenstein. It is a little bit pricey right this minute. It will typically cost you about $60 a month to get comparable service. But we have another service that should be launched by the middle of 2004. It is called SPACEWAY, also satellite-based but much higher performance, which will give much higher performance than even DSL or some cable modem service can today for a very similar price to what we are able to offer today. Senator Leahy. Am I right that in the service you have now, if there is suddenly a large demand, it slows down? Mr. Hartenstein. No, that is not correct. Senator Leahy. That is not correct. Okay. Mr. Hartenstein. I think you are thinking of cable or DSL there. Senator Leahy. I am familiar with cable and DSL, but I had heard that that happens on satellite. But not so? Mr. Hartenstein. Not the way we allocate the transponder capacity. No, sir. Mr. Cleland. Senator, could I add a comment on that with the rural satellite? It is going to be probably the only provider in some very rural spaces, but satellite will always be inferior as an architecture to a telephone or cable infrastructure because when you have to send signals on the IP protocol, you have to send up to the satellite and get answers. And so what it creates is a quarter-of-a-second delay because of the distance and bouncing back. Now, for most services on high-speed, you would not notice the difference. For telephony you would. It would be like a bad walkie-talkie. If you were trying to do interactive gaming, like an F-15 fight with somebody across the country, it would be like flying a Sopwith Camel. So that is what the delay would be like. Senator Leahy. I am not very good at either the Sopwith Camel or the F-15, so I might be okay. However, my youngest son and daughter-in-law, who can fly such things, might feel differently. We have been told that there would not be discrimination against unaffiliated programming services on DIRECTV. What about affiliated programming? Mr. Murdoch. Senator, we have made that quite clear. Any affiliated program would be treated exactly the same as a Fox program and a News Corp program. The misunderstanding here is, I think, that we amended our submission on this some weeks ago. Senator Leahy. Am I correct that that is if the FCC maintains its program access rules? Would you do that even if they did away with those program access rules? Mr. Murdoch. No, sir. We only ask for a level playing field. If they want to exempt all the cable companies and Time Warner with all their things, we would want the same treatment. All we ask for is the same treatment as cable gets. Senator Leahy. So if they did that, if they did away with program access rules, then as far as you are concerned, it is Nellie bar the door, just go ahead, and then you make the decision, whatever commitments are in place now would not be there--I am not trying to put words in your mouth. Mr. Murdoch. Our commitment is simply to extend the existing law from cable to satellite. The only person who will be exempt from it will be Mr. Ergen at EchoStar. We are happy with that. Senator Leahy. But if the FCC changes the program access rules, you would not feel that any commitment you made now stands? Is that right? Mr. Murdoch. I expect they would change it for everybody. Mr. Hartenstein. For the record, Senator, the program access rules were put in place in the 1992 Telecommunications Act as Mr. Kimmelman indicated, and the original sunset for those provisions was in 2002. They were extended for 5 years, so they are automatically now valid until 2007. And by our submission at the FCC, the joint News Corp./DIRECTV submission, we have voluntarily subjected ourselves to those exact terms. Senator Leahy. You subject yourself to FCC's non- discrimination principles by contract, correct? Mr. Hartenstein. Yes. Senator Leahy. How would you feel if that commitment was put into a consent decree by the Justice Department? Do you want to think that one over? Mr. Hartenstein. Well, if the program access rules were, again, applied to all MVPDs, vertically integrated ones, we would abide by those. Clearly, if there is a specific exclusion so that only DIRECTV would be subjected to those, I think that would be clearly an unlevel playing field against our MVPD competitors. Senator Leahy. But you are trying to get the Justice Department to go along with you. Still obviously there are certain give-and-takes when that is being done. You do not think this would be a fair one. Mr. Hartenstein. I think it would be-- Senator Leahy. If they just put into a consent decree you have got to do this, even if the FCC later on changes their rules, which they seem willy-nilly able to do. Mr. Hartenstein. I think that would be unfair, yes. Senator Leahy. Mr. Murdoch, do you agree? Mr. Murdoch. I agree with Mr. Hartenstein, sir. We are simply seeking here the right to compete with cable on a level playing field, and all the submissions we have heard today are to try and tie my hands behind my back from doing that. And if you want competition and service and price competition and everything to the public, I have to have the same privileges they have. Senator Leahy. I have never really pictured you as somebody with their hands tied behind their back with all-- Mr. Murdoch. Well, that is the attempt that is going on here. Senator Leahy. It has usually been unsuccessful. Does anybody want to add anything to this? Mr. Kimmelman. Senator Leahy, I would just like to point out that I don't know where this level playing field is. Mr. Murdoch has a television network with Congressionally granted rights to get on every cable system in the country automatically. I know of no cable company that has such rights. I certainly believe cable companies that own their own programming can prefer their own programming and guarantee carriage on their systems. But there is something unique about a broadcast television network that Congress recognized and gave special privileges to. So I am a bit baffled that Mr. Murdoch and Mr. Hartenstein are not willing to promise more, and particularly not promise more that covers not just cable programming but the broadcast programming to be offered on the same non-discrimination terms. It strikes me that they are unique by having a broadcast network and have through DIRECTV now a separate nationwide distribution system. No one else in the country is like that. Senator Leahy. Does anybody want to add to that? Mr. Miron. I was just going to say I support what Mr. Kimmelman said. The difference between--is definitely that News Corp would have a distribution, national distribution platform which no cable company has. The most a cable company has is a regional platform, and the greatest is to one-third of the country, but most of us much smaller. Senator Leahy. Well, Mr. Chairman, I will add my other questions for the record, and I appreciate we went over time on this. Thank you. I really enjoyed your football questions. We do not have those problems up in my little State. Senator Specter. [Presiding.] Stick around. There are some more coming, Senator Leahy. Thank you very much to Senator Leahy. Senator DeWine has stepped out for a few moments and has asked me to proceed at this time. Focusing on the sports aspect, which may be the key point where so much or perhaps all of the other programming can be substituted for, but there is, as pointed out, only one New York Yankees, only one Philadelphia Eagles, only one Los Angeles Dodgers, when the Judiciary Committee has looked over these problems over the years, when we have had franchise transfers going back to the early 1980's and we had some very hotly contested hearings in this room when the Raiders moved to Los Angeles and Commissioner Rozelle was here with Al Davis and had about as lively a debate at that table as you can fathom. That was in 1982, and we have had the hearings periodically since. And there is always a question as to what Congress can do. And Congress probably does best when Congress does nothing. We have a lot of experience at that. We do have tremendous leverage on the antitrust exemption, which baseball enjoys as a result of judicial decisions and which football enjoys as a result of legislation. So if we were to insist on some other approach by Major League Baseball or by the NFL conditioned on losing their antitrust exemption, if they want to be like any other business--and we know baseball is a business at this point because the Supreme Court said so, long after the Holmes opinion in 1922, and we know football is a business, so that we could use that as leverage to structure some different arrangement. But then the question arises as to what arrangement would we suggest. Mr. Cleland, starting with you, right to left, what would you say Congress ought to do to deal with this issue? Mr. Cleland. Try and offer a creative solution. I think the big problem from a Congressional standpoint is when consumers that might not way to pay for sports have to pay for sports. So probably one of the things is that as sports has migrated to pay-per-view, that has been a good development. But to the extent that sports costs are driving up, you know, cable programming and other programming, because they are bundled, you know, the technology nowadays allows you to select what programs you want. And you may have to buy 50, but you may only want three or five. So I think, you know, any exploration of a la carte pricing from a Congressional standpoint would be something I imagine your constituents would like. Senator Specter. Mr. Kimmelman? Mr. Kimmelman. If I could echo that, we certainly would support moving towards a la carte pricing for consumers, pick the channels you want at a fair price, and I would suggest carrying it back into the wholesale level, each-- Senator Specter. At a fair price? How do you determine that? Mr. Kimmelman. Well, if you can pick the channel you want at the retail level and you carry it back to the wholesale level and prohibit the bundling of channels so that they are sold to the distributor on an individual basis, you will get the closest you can to a market mechanism for people getting to choose what they want. We have a problem with market prices here because we have cable monopolies; we have at best two satellite providers. It is an oligopoly structure. It is tricky. I would urge you to review any antitrust immunity, first of all, for the leagues. I think it is problematic. Senator Specter. Review it? Mr. Kimmelman. And eliminate it. Senator Specter. We have reviewed it again and again and again. But what do we put in its place? You talk about market. How do you get market for the New York Yankees television games, cable television games? Mr. Kimmelman. If the Yankees are allowed to bargain on their own, you will see a very different result in the marketplace than if they are required to bargain through a league in a national package. You may need to look to special rules related to ownership of teams and ownership of distribution media. I think that creates problems. As Mr. Cleland points out, this is a very tough set of issues because it has some inherent monopolistic aspects based on people's taste and also based on the fact that we have very few distribution mechanisms for televised sports, which is what people want. Certainly eliminating antitrust immunity would be a start, and requiring the sale of programming to all distributors on a per-channel basis and then to all consumers on a per-channel basis. People can bundle anything in addition to that. Senator Specter. When you say eliminating the antitrust exemptions would be a start, would you recommend that we do that? Mr. Kimmelman. Yes, sir, I do. Senator Specter. What would happen? What would the consequence be? Would we not have a situation of chaos? Mr. Kimmelman. We might have--we would have--we might have more chaos than we have today because leagues would not be able to organize how they maximize their profits for each of their teams. But you would certainly have the consumer able to pick and choose the teams he and she want to watch and see much more readily than you have today. You would not necessarily have certainty that teams would not move around. That is definitely a problem. Senator Specter. Would we have teams? If you don't have the revenue-sharing of the NFL, would we have teams? Mr. Kimmelman. We might have a lot more, Senator Specter. We might end up with more teams serving more communities, as you have in soccer in the U.K. Where we do not restrict exactly how the minor league is structured for baseball and major league is structured, you might have a much more open marketplace. Senator Specter. Just let the market govern, no antitrust exemptions. What do you think, Mr. Miron? Mr. Miron. Senator, I am not knowledgeable enough in this particular area to really try to-- Senator Specter. Well, don't let that stop you, Mr. Miron. [Laughter.] Senator Specter. Nobody else is either. Mr. Miron. I can only look at how legislation would affect us, and at this point I would not want to see Congress enact legislation that would force tiering or a la carte or any of that sort of stuff on a cable operator and a programmer. I would rather have us be able to enter into free market negotiations and continue to enter into negotiations, you know, with Fox Sports. What I fear is that with the DIRECTV purchase, it would upset that free market negotiation. I think we have seen and we have seen now in New York a negotiation going on and some start towards the moving of cable programming, cable sports programming to a tier or something of that nature, and that to me--if we could have that free market negotiation and it could continue, maybe that has a way of helping it. But I would be very cautious to ask the Congress to delve into that specific area because I think it would be very difficult. Senator Specter. Mr. Hartenstein? Mr. Hartenstein. Senator Specter, I cannot speak for any given league, the NFL or any others, as to what their druthers are. But I know in general programmers themselves do not like the notion of a la carte pricing or even tiering. It is terribly suppressive to the innovators who want to come up with new programming services. If everything went a la carte, the Animal Planets of the world, some of the new services just, I think, would be impossible to come into existence. Senator Specter. Would that be bad? Mr. Hartenstein. Pardon? Senator Specter. Would that be so bad? Mr. Hartenstein. Well, if you look at where people's choices were 10 years ago in terms of how many channels could a multi-channel programming provider provide, read cable 10 years ago, the answer was typically 30 or 50 or so channels. And while, yes, everybody only in their household professes to watch three channels, I tell you, if you get 50 households in a row, they will be a different three or nine or however many they watch in every one of those 50. It is all about choice, sir, and I think that the cable industry has enough trouble answering the phone as it is. You know, trying to deal with customers wanting to change their a la carte lineup, I do not think they could handle it. I think, quite frankly--that was a cheap shot, I know, Mr. Miron. Senator Specter. How does DIRECTV do on answering the phone? Mr. Hartenstein. We do very well, sir. We are number one in both the ACSI and the J.D. Power independent customer satisfaction surveys. It is 2 years running now on ACSI. Senator Specter. How does that compare to EchoStar? Mr. Hartenstein. EchoStar has come in number two, and the rest of the MVPD providers, cable, comes sort of a distant third. Senator Specter. Judging by my cable company, you would not have to be very good to be better than they are. [Laughter.] Mr. Hartenstein. Thank you. Senator Specter. I say that very seriously. Mr. Murdoch? Mr. Murdoch. Senator, I would just like to start by saying that I am pleased that Mr. Miron has just agreed to free market negotiations, which is just what we do. On the bigger question of antitrust and the leagues, first of all, there seems to be some fiction that all these teams make a lot of money. I don't know any teams that make any money, particularly in baseball. There is also the little fiction of Mr. Kimmelman's I might correct. We do not own Madison Square Garden or the Knicks or the Nets or whoever the hell are there. We do have a minority position in that, which we will be very happy if you ordered Cable Vision to give their money back. But we certainly have no influence at all on that. The real point, we have just had this, as a matter of interest, in Europe and in Britain. We supported the start of a premier league in soccer and made it very popular, and it was a tremendous help to Sky Television, although it was very expensive. But it led to huge improvement in football in Britain, and they share the money around. Over the last year, the European Commission, Mr. Monti, the Commissioner for Competition Policy, has been driving at them to try and break it up and say this is monopolistic, it is a cartel, and so on. And he has finally backed away and given up on that and simply said they have to sell different packages of games. But if you let each team negotiate for themselves, you are going to end up with half as many teams, not many more teams, as Mr. Kimmelman stated. The big teams will get all the money, and the little teams will get no money. And I think it would be very bad for the public and for the games. It would be better if Mr. Tagliabue of the NFL was here to articulate this rather than me. But I think the NFL has done a tremendous service to the public by controlling and sharing the money and sharing the talent equally. It is a tricky problem. I know that sounds bad public policy, but it happens to work well in this case. Senator Specter. Well, it certainly is a tricky problem, and it is extraordinarily difficult to try to find some answer, and Congress has shied away from it because of the lack of predictability of what would happen if we removed the antitrust exemptions. So we stumble along in what we are doing, and we really leave it up to the leagues. And I think baseball and football are getting into deeper trouble because you go to see the Philadelphia Eagles and you do not know any of the players. You go to the see the Philadelphia Phillies and you do not know the players. Free agency has now put all the players on different teams. We had a lot of Philadelphia Eagles in the Super Bowl last year, but they were playing for Tampa or the other team. Well, thank you very much, gentlemen. It has been very interesting and informative. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman DeWine. [Presiding.] Well, let me thank our witnesses for their testimony here today. As I stated at the outset, this transaction has important implications for pay- television consumers and for the media industry generally. And today's witnesses I think have really provided a great deal of information and insight into the issue, and we appreciate it. Vertical transactions like the one before us today often raise very complicated competition policy issues, and I think it is fair to say that this deal certainly does that. Senator Kohl and I continue to believe that the issues raised here today need to be thoroughly examined by the Justice Department and the FCC. And for that reason, we have sent a letter today to those agencies requesting that they review this deal carefully. I would like to stress, however, that the Antitrust Subcommittee has not reached any conclusions about whether or not the deal should be approved. Similarly, we have not reached any conclusions as to the final form of any additional conditions which may be necessary. We will issue, therefore, follow-up questions to today's witnesses, and we look forward to working with them as we continue to evaluate these important issues. So, again, let me thank all of you very much for your patience and for your very good testimony. Thank you. [Whereupon, at 4:52 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.] [Questions and answers and submissions for the record follow.] [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE FOR TIFF FORMAT] -