<DOC> [107th Congress House Hearings] [From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access] [DOCID: f:76884.wais] REFORM OF THE FAMILY DIVISION OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SUPERIOR COURT--IMPROVING SERVICES TO FAMILIES AND CHILDREN ======================================================================= HEARING before the SUBCOMMITTEE ON THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA of the COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ JUNE 26, 2001 __________ Serial No. 107-30 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Reform Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpo.gov/congress/house http://www.house.gov/reform _______ U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE 76-884 WASHINGTON : 2001 ____________________________________________________________________________ For Sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpr.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; (202) 512ÿ091800 Fax: (202) 512ÿ092250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402ÿ090001 COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM DAN BURTON, Indiana, Chairman BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York HENRY A. WAXMAN, California CONSTANCE A. MORELLA, Maryland TOM LANTOS, California CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut MAJOR R. OWENS, New York ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York JOHN M. McHUGH, New York PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania STEPHEN HORN, California PATSY T. MINK, Hawaii JOHN L. MICA, Florida CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York THOMAS M. DAVIS, Virginia ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, Washington, MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana DC JOE SCARBOROUGH, Florida ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland STEVEN C. LaTOURETTE, Ohio DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio BOB BARR, Georgia ROD R. BLAGOJEVICH, Illinois DAN MILLER, Florida DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois DOUG OSE, California JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts RON LEWIS, Kentucky JIM TURNER, Texas JO ANN DAVIS, Virginia THOMAS H. ALLEN, Maine TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois DAVE WELDON, Florida WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri CHRIS CANNON, Utah DIANE E. WATSON, California ADAM H. PUTNAM, Florida ------ ------ C.L. ``BUTCH'' OTTER, Idaho ------ EDWARD L. SCHROCK, Virginia BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee (Independent) Kevin Binger, Staff Director Daniel R. Moll, Deputy Staff Director James C. Wilson, Chief Counsel Robert A. Briggs, Chief Clerk Phil Schiliro, Minority Staff Director Subcommittee on the District of Columbia CONSTANCE A. MORELLA, Maryland, Chairman TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, Washington, THOMAS M. DAVIS, Virginia, DC JOE SCARBOROUGH, Florida ------ ------ ------ ------ Ex Officio DAN BURTON, Indiana HENRY A. WAXMAN, California Russell Smith, Staff Director Heea Vazirani-Fales, Counsel Matthew Batt, Clerk Jon Bouker, Minority Counsel C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hearing held on June 26, 2001.................................... 1 Statement of: DeLay, Hon. Tom, Majority Whip, U.S. House of Representatives 91 King, Chief Judge Rufus, III, Superior Court of the District of Columbia; Kathy Patterson, chairperson, Committee on the Judiciary, D.C. City Council; Olivia A. Golden, director, Child and Family Services Agency; Judith Meltzer, Center for the Study of Social Policy; and F. Scott McCown, Chief District Judge, Travis County Court House.................. 16 Murphy, Sister Josephine, St. Ann's Infant and Maternity Home; Stephen D. Harlan, chairman of the board, Council for Court Excellence; Tommy Wells, executive director, Consortium for Child Welfare; and Margaret J. McKinney, Family Law Section, District of Columbia Bar............... 157 Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by: Davis, Hon. Thomas M., a Representative in Congress from the State of Virginia, prepared statement of................... 11 DeLay, Hon. Tom, Majority Whip, U.S. House of Representatives, prepared statement of..................... 94 Golden, Olivia A., director, Child and Family Services Agency, prepared statement of.............................. 84 Harlan, Stephen D., chairman of the board, Council for Court Excellence: March 2001 report on site visits......................... 166 Memorandum dated July 16, 2001........................... 220 Prepared statement of.................................... 181 King, Chief Judge Rufus, III, Superior Court of the District of Columbia: Letter dated September 12, 2001.......................... 152 Prepared statement of.................................... 19 McCown, F. Scott, Chief District Judge, Travis County Court House, prepared statement of............................... 113 McKinney, Margaret J., Family Law Section, District of Columbia Bar, prepared statement of........................ 191 Meltzer, Judith, Center for the Study of Social Policy, prepared statement of...................................... 106 Morella, Hon. Constance A., a Representative in Congress from the State of Maryland, prepared statement of............... 4 Murphy, Sister Josephine, St. Ann's Infant and Maternity Home, prepared statement of................................ 160 Norton, Hon. Eleanor Holmes, a Delegate in Congress from the District of Columbia, prepared statement of................ 8 Patterson, Kathy, chairperson, Committee on the Judiciary, D.C. City Council, prepared statement of................... 74 Wells, Tommy, executive director, Consortium for Child Welfare, prepared statement of............................. 213 REFORM OF THE FAMILY DIVISION OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA SUPERIOR COURT--IMPROVING SERVICES TO FAMILIES AND CHILDREN ---------- TUESDAY, JUNE 26, 2001 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on the District of Columbia, Committee on Government Reform, Washington, DC. The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 12:07 p.m., in room 2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Constance A. Morella (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Representatives Morella, Norton, and Davis. Staff present: Russell Smith, staff director; Heea Vazirani-Fales, counsel; Robert White, communications director; Matthew Batt, clerk; Jon Bouker, minority counsel; and Jean Gosa, minority assistant clerk. Mrs. Morella. Good morning. It is a pleasure to welcome you to the District of Columbia Subcommittee's hearing on the reform of the family division of the District of Columbia Superior Court, improving services to families and children. I think we can all agree that children are our Nation's most important and valuable asset. Our witnesses today are here because of their commitment to the children in our Nation's Capital. I want to thank them for their dedication and for sharing their experiences and suggestions with us. I recognize that each witness will present his or her evaluation of the present situation from his or her own frame of reference. This subcommittee will evaluate the testimony and the information during the question and answer exchange in order to formulate final legislation. Mr. DeLay will be joining us very soon. In fact, that was why we started our hearing at noon, so you could postpone your lunch, and when he comes I will recognize him to speak. Mr. Davis will be joining us and, of course, we have our ranking member, Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton, and I want to thank them for the dedicated work on this draft legislation. I particularly want to welcome Mr. DeLay when he arrives, the majority whip, who has been very instrumental in keeping our focus on the issue and has used his offices to bring together all participants to craft the discussion draft on the Family Court. Indeed, we are privileged today to have Chief Justice Rufus King, chief judge of the D.C. Superior Court; the Honorable Kathy Patterson, who is the Chair of the Committee on the Judiciary of the D.C. City Council; Olivia Golden, who is the director of Child and Family Services Agency; Judith Meltzer from the Center for the Study of Social Policy; the Honorable F. Scott McCown, the civil district court, Travis County, TX; Sister Josephine Murphy of St. Ann's Infant and Maternity Home; Stephen Harlan, chairman of the board, Council for Court Excellence; Margaret McKinney, family law section of the District of Columbia Bar; and Tommy Wells, executive director, the Consortium for Child Welfare. So you can see we have a very prominent, distinguished group of people who will be testifying before us today. I thought I'd give an opening statement by reminding us of the fact that on the morning of January 6, 2000, doctors at Children's Hospital declared 23-month-old Brianna Blackman dead, the victim of severe head injuries. According to the grand jury that handed out 10 indictments against her mother and godmother, the girl's death was the culmination of 2 weeks of what can only be described as torture. Brianna was allegedly beaten with a belt, repeatedly punched, ultimately had her hands cuffed and her head smashed against a hard surface. Since that tragic day, a sweet, smiling Brianna Blackman has occasionally gazed at us from the front pages of the newspaper, a poignant reminder of the fatal shortcomings in the District of Columbia's child welfare system. Miscommunication among city agencies, lawyers, and judges continues to be a problem. A heavy case load for judges and case workers--the family division disposed of less than half of its cases last year, for example--is another obstacle. The present structure of the family division, where judges rotate in and out every year or two, is not productive. And today we are going to do our part to look at this system and to try to reform it. As is often the case in the Nation's Capital, responsibility is bifurcated. Congress has funding responsibility for the courts, while the city has control over the Child and Family Services Agency and other parts of the child welfare network. I know Mayor Williams and the Council take these issues very seriously and are working to improve the city's side of the equation, and we have a lady here, Olivia Golden, who is CFSA's new director, who will tell us about how those efforts are proceeding. Today's hearing, of course, will focus on our efforts in Congress to strengthen the performance of the District's Family Court Division. As some of you may know, my husband and I have raised nine children, including the six children of my late sister. My nieces and nephews ranged from 9 to 15 years of age when their mother died, but they were fortunate and we were fortunate in that we have a supportive, loving family and they had one they could turn to, so therefore I understand the importance of safety, security, and stability in a child's life. The 11,000 children served each year by the Child and Family Services Agency and the 1,500 or so whose abuse and neglect cases end up in the Family Division aren't as lucky. These are children with parents who are addicted to drugs or mentally ill, children who in some cases suffer physical or sexual abuse to a degree far worse than most of us can even imagine. And for many of these children the case workers and the court system are their last resort. We, as a society, have an obligation to lend a helping hand. The reforms that we will discuss today embodied in the District of Columbia Family Court Act of 2001, developed by Majority Whip DeLay, Congresswoman Norton, Congressman Davis, and myself, effect positive and needed change in the way the court system handles the fortunes of our most vulnerable residents. When he arrives, our first witness, Tom DeLay, will discuss why the legislation is before us, but I thought I would highlight a few of the important provisions. Under our plan, the work of judges would be supported by judge magistrates, who would handle many aspects of cases. And, by the use of alternative dispute resolution and mediation, we would bring in a special master to help reduce the backlog. Nearly 4,500 abuse and neglect cases were pending as of December 31st. The court would adhere to the ``one family/one judge'' approach, because families really come before the court just once, and we want our judges to be familiar with every aspect of a child's case. We are also hopeful that the judges who serve on the family bench want to be there, who see family court as an opportunity and not an assignment. And, probably most importantly, judges would sit on the Family Court for fixed terms of at least 3 years, and they would continue to receive training while sitting on the bench. Formalized training in family matters is important, but there's no substitute for on-the-job experience judges acquire while presiding over these complicated cases. In short, these changes represent the first major overhaul of the District of Columbia's Family Division in three decades. No longer will we have a 1970's court structure to contend with the burgeoning 21st century problems, and no longer will Congress tolerate a court system that too often fails its most desperate citizens. I am now pleased to recognize for an opening statement the ranking member of this subcommittee, Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton. [The prepared statement of Hon. Constance A. Morella follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.211 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.212 Ms. Norton. Thank you very much, Representative Morella. Our Chair, Congresswoman Connie Morella, has our thanks for initiating this hearing on the first overhaul of our Family Court since 1970, when it was upgraded to be a part of the Superior Court of the District of Columbia. The old Family Court, then called ``Juvenile Court,'' was a stand-alone court that had become a place apart--in effect, a ghetto court--to which the city's most troubled children and families were sent away from the ``real judicial system.'' Out of sight left children and families out of mind until the Juvenile Court was abolished as hopelessly ineffective and poorly funded. All agree that the Family Division has proved to be a vast improvement over the Juvenile Court, despite the increasing number of abused and neglected children, troubled juveniles, and families in crisis. However, no institution should go a full 30 years without a close examination of its strengths and weaknesses. The Family Division needs examination and revision after a generation to be able to continue to meet its difficult mission. The Division increasingly is taxed by intractable societal problems and, in addition, must depend on an outside agency, the District's Child and Family Services Agency, which until recently had been adjudged so dysfunctional that it was taken over by the Federal courts and placed in a receivership. The need to update the Family Division might not have been a priority were it not for the tragic death of the infant Brianna Blackman, who was allowed to return to her troubled mother without a hearing after it was alleged that lawyers representing all the parties, social workers, and the guardians ad litem all certified that the child should be returned. My staff and I commenced a detailed investigation of best practices of Family Courts and Family Divisions here and around the country in preparation for writing a bill. Of course, the City Council, which is far more familiar with the children and families of the city than we in Congress, is best qualified to write a bill, but Congress withheld jurisdiction over D.C. courts from the city even after the Home Rule Act was enacted in 1973. Majority Whip Tom DeLay, who has shown an admirable interest in our children and the court, also began to write a bill. Soon we joined and worked closely and collegially together to produce a single bill which we then sent to the city. I appreciate the time and personal effort Mr. DeLay put into the bill, including lengthy meetings with judges and members of the bar, and particularly the excellent work of Cassie Bevan, senior policy advisor for Mr. DeLay, who worked closely with John Bouker, my counsel and legislative director. May I say, as well, that I appreciate the strong support Mr. DeLay has given to our effort to return Child and Family Services to the District, and the Federal District Court has now ordered the agency returned to the District. Despite many hours of work on this bill, I need to hear from city officials before I have confidence in our work, and I believe that this committee should not proceed without a resolution from the Council. Our bill incorporates the best practices from successful, independent family courts and family courts that are integrated into general jurisdiction courts. These courts have in common an ample number of judges; magistrate judges; matters retained in specialized Family Court until resolution; one family/one judge; alternative and dispute resolution and mediation, often far better than formal adversarial proceedings in many family matters; and required regular training for judges and court personnel. As important as our bill is, the major problem of children and families in the District is not the court, but the Child and Family Services Agency. The court needs more resources and it needs modernization. CFSA needs a complete makeover; yet, after 6 years in a Federal Court receivership, CFSA is returning to the District largely because the receivership failed, not because that agency has been revitalized. No matter what we achieve with our bill, children and families are unlikely to notice much difference in their lives unless CFSA is fundamentally changed. Courts are the back end of the process when all else has failed, the last resort when people must be compelled to do what they are required to do. Our bill assures that the city has a full-time staff liaison onsite at the court, but inevitably the court will be handicapped by the condition of the CFSA. In the first years of the agency's return to the District, assuring that the CFSA and the new Family Court of the Superior Court are seamless in their response to our children and families is a formidable challenge for both the city and the court. Because the court has generally been well-run and responsive to children and families, I believe that, with new resources and both added and updated functions, the court can do the job. The city's challenge to both reform the CFSA and align the agency with the court is more formidable. However, the Mayor's careful work in management reform and accountability and the Council's diligent oversight encourages optimism. I believe we have much to learn from today's witnesses, who have been on the ground with the children and families of the city, and with the issues the court tackles every day, and, of course, with the court, itself. I welcome each of these witnesses and thank them in advance for their preparation and their testimony. Mrs. Morella. Thank you, Ms. Norton. [The prepared statement of Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.001 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.002 Mrs. Morella. We are now going to proceed with our second panel in the interest of time, and so I would ask Chief Judge Rufus King, the Honorable Kathy Patterson, Olivia Golden, Judith Meltzer, Judge F. Scott McCown to step forward. Before you sit down, it is the policy of this committee and all its subcommittees to swear in those who will be testifying, so please raise your right hands. [Witnesses sworn.] Mrs. Morella. Thank you. The record will demonstrate an affirmative response. We have been joined by Congressman Tom Davis, who was my predecessor as chair of this subcommittee and has, as I mentioned in my opening statement, been very much involved also in the deliberations to come up with the Family Division and the draft of the bill that we have before us. Again in the interest of time our procedure is traditionally to allow each person who testifies about 5 minutes for the testimony, with the knowledge that the testimony in its entirety will be included in the record. Incidentally, before I introduce Chief Judge King, let me ask Congressman Davis if he would like to make an opening statement. Mr. Davis. I think what I would ask, I have a lengthy statement that I'd just ask unanimous consent to be put into the record so we can move ahead. [The prepared statement of Hon. Thomas M. Davis follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.213 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.214 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.215 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.216 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.217 Mrs. Morella. Without objection, so ordered, and thank you. Chief Judge King? STATEMENTS OF CHIEF JUDGE RUFUS KING III, SUPERIOR COURT OF THE DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA; KATHY PATTERSON, CHAIRPERSON, COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY, D.C. CITY COUNCIL; OLIVIA A. GOLDEN, DIRECTOR, CHILD AND FAMILY SERVICES AGENCY; JUDITH MELTZER, CENTER FOR THE STUDY OF SOCIAL POLICY; AND F. SCOTT MCCOWN, CHIEF DISTRICT JUDGE, TRAVIS COUNTY COURT HOUSE Judge King. Thank you, Madam Chairman, Congresswoman Norton, Congressman Davis, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for calling this hearing to discuss proposals you have been working on regarding the Superior Court and the court's plan for reform of the Family Division. We share a commitment to safeguarding the safety and improving the quality of life of abused and neglected children. I have submitted written testimony, with copies of the court's plan and the draft legislation, with the court's comments attached for inclusion in the written record. I will discuss briefly some of the principal issues and the court's position on them in these remarks. At my request, the presiding judge--that's Judge Walton-- and the deputy presiding judge, Judge Josey-Herring, both of whom are here today, along with a working group of hearing commissioners, staff in the Family Division, and other stakeholders, have produced a plan for reforming the Family Division. That plan is very similar to the legislation you are considering and reflects a very constructive dialog that you, Representative Norton, Representative DeLay, Senator DeWine, and others have afforded us. In addition to reforms within the court, we have been strengthening our working relationships with the District of Columbia Child and Family Services Agency and Mayor Williams, as he assumes control of that agency. In particular, we have welcomed the appointment of Dr. Olivia Golden, and I appreciate her willingness to set regular working meetings with us to coordinate our respective efforts in behalf of children. I would also like to express my appreciation for the constructive working relationship Chairman Linda Crop and Council Member Kathy Patterson of the City Council have accorded the court. Turning to the reform measures discussed in Congress and the court's plan, a few principles are of primary importance to all of us working on these issues. I will address areas where there are differences in the interest of time, but with great appreciation for the many areas where we agree. I, of course, appreciate the apparent consensus on allowing the Unified Family Court to remain a part of the Superior Court, the highest court of general jurisdiction in the District of Columbia, as is consistent with the position taken by the American Bar Association. As to judicial terms in the Family Court, the court believes judges should serve 3 year, extendable terms in the Family Court. We need to attract qualified, dedicated judges, both current judges and lawyers who will be nominated to serve in the new Family Court. Three-year, extendable terms will allow us to do that, while permitting the development of expertise and continuity of attention to cases, especially if the terms are staggered so that there is always a complement of experienced judges in the Family Division. I also believe that the few true dedicated leaders who will make Family Court their career work will be more likely to emerge in the context of extendable terms than if forced to choose a lengthy initial term. I am aware that different jurisdictions have chosen different approaches, but, after careful consultation with various stakeholders, we believe this is the correct one for the District of Columbia. Flexibility--this issue is one that involves trust on both sides. We have common goals for the Family Court and generally share a common view of how it should operate, but to manage the court effectively any chief judge will need some flexibility to address changing circumstances in the community and in the court. Among other foreseeable contingencies when flexibility would be needed are the potential service of senior judges, occasions when judges experience illness or disability, and significant changes in the incoming cases, the mix of incoming cases. As to magistrate judges, the draft legislation would set up two classes of limited jurisdiction judicial officer: the current hearing commissioners and the new magistrate judges within the Family Court. In addition to the personnel issues that are involved in having two classes of judicial officers with similar, but not identical authority, this system would pose difficulties in managing different case loads in our court. We would urge the designation of a single category of magistrate judge with uniform powers. Turning to the current case load, as we have discussed before, there are approximately 4,500 children currently in the system whose cases remain under review after 18 months or more. Let me tell you about some of them. A child of 15 was recently hospitalized in another State after 5 years of sexual abuse in her adoptive home. She endured this without reporting it in order to protect her younger sister, who was not being abused. A child who is self-mutilating and suicidal after years of abuse and neglect will need psychiatric treatment and hospitalization for years. A boy whose mother burned him during a cocaine binge remains hospitalized with crippling physical and emotional injuries. A teen has set fire to every foster home she has been placed in. Another teen who keeps absconding from placements calls each time to tell the judge, who then talks her back into care and on to her much-needed medication. We believe reassigning all of these cases of the existing cases would overwhelm the new Family Court and would disrupt the lives of some of the children involved. While some of the cases surely could go, and should go, to the Family Court and to the new judges, others should not, because they are near permanency or because of the relative effectiveness of the current assignment in addressing the child's needs. We do fully agree with assigning all incoming cases within the Family Court, subject to very limited special circumstances. Last, but, of course, not least, many of the reforms require additional resources. I realize that this is an authorizing, not appropriating, subcommittee, but I urge you to talk to your colleagues on the Appropriations Committee and let them know how urgent our need is. We can make, and are making, some of these changes without additional resources, and together we have developed a plan that will better serve the children of the District of Columbia, but to do most of it we need the funding for judicial officers and support staff, for courtrooms and other facilities, and for an integrated justice information system, so that we can better meet the goal of one family/one judge. I re-emphasize the best reform will result from a collaboration that draws heavily on the interest and thought of those who will ultimately have to serve under whatever Family Court is finally enacted. Such a reform can best be achieved with a real effort to build trust among the Congress, the court, and the Child and Family Services Agency. We hope that we can work to achieve a level of trust that will allow for sufficient flexibility in the final legislation, so that the Family Court can be operated according to best court management principles. Of course, Congress, acting both directly and through the annual budget process, will always retain the oversight role to ensure that reforms are effectively carried out. Madam Chairwoman, Congresswoman Norton, and Congressman Davis, thank you for the opportunity to talk about the work of the court's Family Division and plans to improve it. I would be happy to answer any questions you have. Mrs. Morella. Thank you, Chief Judge King, and thank you for your work all along the way in bringing us to this point and the improvements that you've already initiated, have put into operation. 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Now it is a pleasure to recognize Councilwoman Patterson. Ms. Patterson. Thank you very much. Thank you, Congresswoman Morella, Ms. Norton, Mr. Davis, for the opportunity to---- Mrs. Morella. I think you need to put that closer. Ms. Patterson. Thank you. I'm Kathy Patterson, the ward three representative to the D.C. Council and the current chairperson of the Council's Committee on the Judiciary. The Council shares your concern about how the court system deals with the problems faced by the city's most vulnerable residents, including children who have been abused or neglected. The Council as a body has not yet spoken on these issues. My testimony does, however, reflect my views and those of Chairman Cropp, who is chairing a legislative meeting right now. I'm pleased to share this panel with Judge King. Under his leadership, the Superior Court has made good progress in addressing concerns raised by the General Accounting Office and others on this issue and on other management issues facing the court. I would respectfully ask the subcommittee to consider carefully the locally generated reform plan and the views of the elected leadership, the Mayor and the Council. The Council is planning hearings in September on legislation that would vest control over the selection of local judges in the Mayor and the Council. The residents of this city deserve to have a voice in the selection of officials from all branches of government, and this principle is best furthered by permitting the Mayor and the Council to select the judges who will serve on local courts. Principles of home rule would also suggest that, on issues related to the internal functioning of the Superior Court, Congress should pay particular attention to the local views. I, therefore, do appreciate this opportunity today. I am very grateful for the progress made thus far on this issue under the leadership of Ms. Norton and others on this committee. Much of the initial legislative proposals proposed by Congressman DeLay and others have been strengthened after consultation with local authorities and with this committee, and now reflect a consensus on many issues on how best to implement and enhance Family Court to preside over these important cases. The Council recognizes the need to recruit judicial candidates who are experienced and interested in family law to staff the Family Court Division of Superior Court. With a current vacancy on the Judicial Nominating Commission, the Council has an opportunity to assist in this effort by selecting for that commission someone who has a background in family law and can effectively evaluate the family law credentials of judicial applicants. Along these lines, I believe that a term of 3 years rather than an alternative minimum of 5 years will best serve to attract qualified and dedicated judicial candidates to Family Court. The 3-year term is supported by respected groups such as the Council for Court Excellence, and strikes a good balance between ensuring continuity and experience of judges and staving off burnout. Chairman Cropp and I support many of the other proposals that incorporate widely accepted best practices for effectively handling Family Court operations. These include: enhanced training, modernization of the computer system to ensure better tracking, and an increased focus on the use of alternative dispute resolution. We also join in concerns expressed by the Mayor's office and the Council for Court Excellence, as well as the court, that creating a three-tiered judicial system by establishing magistrate judges only in the Family Court Division of Superior Court may undermine the effective functioning of all divisions of the court. The different titles and duties may preclude qualified Superior Court hearing commissioners from handling matters in Family Court as needed on an emergency basis, and may limit the opportunity of Family Court magistrates to rotate into Superior Court assignments. We support the proposal to redesignate Superior Court hearing commissioners as magistrate judges to overcome this problem. Some aspects of the proposed legislation may be contrary to the ability of the Superior Court to respond effectively and flexibly to challenges posed by unanticipated changes in the environment in the District. For example, the designation of a number of Family Court judges that is fixed at the time of the chief judge's transition plan could unnecessarily limit the ability of the court to respond to changing circumstances, and I would recommend continuing discussion on this point. There are some special challenges that will occur during the transition period. I recognize the importance of ensuring that matters within the jurisdiction of the Family Court are handled by judges who are currently sitting in the Family Court, and also recognize the importance of expediting the review of the approximately 4,500 cases that have been pending and are still under review. While in some circumstances there may be legitimate reasons for the lack of a final decision and the need for further court oversight, in other situations it is likely that some of these cases require no further action and simply need to be closed. I support the proposals for immediate review of the abuse and neglect matters currently pending either by a special master or by several magistrates appointed on an expedited basis, as well as by the judges currently assigned to these cases, to determine how many of these cases need to remain open and whether they should be transferred to Family Court immediately or remain with the currently assigned judge. We believe that the court's proposed restructuring into teams should minimize the turnover of participants in cases such as this, and that over time this would obviate the concern. During a period of transition to the new structure, however, it may make sense to permit judges to maintain continuity in certain exceptional cases pending before them. I do appreciate that some judges believe they have served as the only continuous supportive presence in the life of a troubled child. It may be the most viable practical solution over the short term, given the large number of pending cases which cannot realistically be transferred simultaneously for handling to the new Family Court staff. Over time I agree that the strong presumption should be in force that family matters remain in Family Court and recommend that this be implemented through a much more narrow interpretation of the exceptional circumstances that permit retention of a case by a judge who leaves the Family Court. In order for the improvements anticipated by the proposed reforms to be achieved, it is imperative that the Congress fully fund additions to personnel, technological requirements, and physical plant, and support our enhancements to the budgets for other D.C. agencies. The continued commitment of resources is essential to fulfilling the promise of reforms. Finally, and to Ms. Norton's point about responsibilities at the local level, I would just note that, in my capacity as chairman of the committee with oversight responsibility for the Metropolitan Police Department, I will be chairing a hearing Thursday on the role and responsibilities of the Police Department in investigating child fatalities and child abuse and on the front end of preventing harm to children through community policing. Thank you very much. Mrs. Morella. Thank you, Councilwoman Patterson. I hope you will share with us the results of that meeting that you are going to be chairing. It's very important. [The prepared statement of Ms. Patterson follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.055 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.056 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.057 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.058 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.059 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.060 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.061 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.062 Mrs. Morella. Welcome aboard, Dr. Golden. We are delighted to have you here today and to listen to your comments. Ms. Golden. Thank you very much. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Morella, Congresswoman Norton, and other members on the Subcommittee of the District of Columbia. My name is Olivia Golden, and I am the newly appointed director of the Child and Family Services Agency [CFSA]. I am most appreciative of this opportunity to testify on behalf of Mayor Williams. I would like to acknowledge the commitment of the subcommittee and of Congressman Delay to working with the District on this important legislative proposal, and I want to express special appreciation to Judge King and to Judge Walton for their commitment to working closely with us at CFSA. The Mayor strongly supports the discussion draft legislation of May 21, 2001, because it represents an important step toward his key goal of support for the District's most vulnerable children. In order to keep children safe and enable children to life in loving, permanent families, all elements of the District's child welfare system--the CFSA, the Office of Corporation Counsel, the Metropolitan Police Department, nonprofit and community agencies, and the Superior Court--all must work together on behalf of children. The Superior Court is an integral part of this system at each stage of the child welfare process. It makes the initial determination regarding abuse and neglect, conducts review hearings, adjudicates adoption proceedings, and renders the ultimate decision about whether to return a child to the home; thus, the work of the court must be effectively and closely synchronized with the work of other participants in the child welfare system. The discussion draft accomplishes this goal by including key steps to strengthen one part of the child welfare system, the Superior Court, in a way that supports the reform efforts in the other parts, as Representative Norton highlighted, creating an extraordinary opportunity to change the system, as a whole, in a way that benefits children. We have this extraordinary opportunity today because the Williams administration, with the help of many people in this room, has addressed over the last 12 months some of the critical systemic deficits that have impeded the performance of the child welfare system. For example, because of the commitment of the Mayor and the Council and with the support of the Congress, CFSA is now funded at a level that should allow us to hire sufficient social workers over the coming months, and to meet other critical service needs. And under the Mayor's auspices, as Representative Norton highlighted, we were able to work cooperatively with the stakeholders in the child welfare class action to successfully transition out of Federal Court receivership. We were also able to enact legislation that created CFSA for the first time as a unified, Cabinet-level agency with authority over both abuse and neglect. Mayor Williams regained both operating and fiscal control over CFSA on June 16, 2001, which means I am now in my 9th day as director of the agency under the city. The discussion draft represents an extremely important next step, building on these reforms to reform the entire child welfare system, to support the best interests of children, and to promote child protection as well as the timely movement of cases toward permanency. First, the draft addresses the challenge currently posed by the fact that approximately 1,200 Superior Court abuse and neglect hearings each month are dispersed among all 59 sitting judges, as well as a number of senior judges. This places enormous demands on both CFSA and corporation counsel staff, and has substantial operational implications for both agencies. Second, the draft provides strategies and resources to address the timelines for handling abuse and neglect cases. According to court data, a significant number of the estimated 4,500 pending abuse and neglect cases in the Superior Court have now been processed within the timelines prescribed by the Adoption and Safe Families Act [ASFA]. The failure to process cases within ASFA timelines isn't in the best interest of the District's children. Delays in achieving permanency adversely affect our children, who need long-term stability in their lives, and may result in the imposition of monetary penalties on the District. Although we strongly support the discussion draft, we believe it would benefit from several amendments. First, there may be exceptional circumstances that would justify an individual judge either retaining one of the cases that is currently under review or retaining a case after he or she leaves the Family Court. This practice should be narrow and limited to the most extraordinary circumstances; specifically, when a case is nearing permanency and changing judges would both delay that goal and result in a violation of ASFA. Second, the duration of judicial assignments in the Family Court should be set at a minimum of 3 years in order to promote continuity and to attract experienced jurists. Third, as drafted, the bill limits magistrate judges to the Family Court and would preclude the current hearing commissioners from Family Court assignments. And, fourth, we would like to emphasize the critical role of a sufficient appropriation to support the staffing and infrastructure costs required to realize the reform. We look forward to working with you on the expedited enactment of the proposed legislation. I appreciate the opportunity to testify and look forward to your questions. Thank you. Mrs. Morella. Thank you very much. We appreciate the testimony. [The prepared statement of Ms. Golden follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.063 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.064 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.065 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.066 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.067 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.068 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.069 Mrs. Morella. I know that the majority whip is here, Mr. DeLay. Mr. DeLay, would you like to come up here? Ms. Meltzer, do you mind if we hold off and hear from Mr. DeLay, and then we'll pick up with you and Judge McCown. I know he particularly wanted to be here for you, Judge McCown. We have already given him a very elaborate introduction and have been awaiting his presence here, but it is really because his heart and soul has been put into this particular issue and he has commanded the various resources of his office and brought everybody together on it, so it is a pleasure to have you testify, Majority Whip DeLay. STATEMENT OF HON. TOM DELAY, MAJORITY WHIP, U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Mr. DeLay. Thank you, Madam Chair. I really appreciate the committee's indulgence to my schedule. It just seems like every time I am called to do something, there's two other calls to do two other things. But I do appreciate your giving me this opportunity, and particularly I appreciate Congresswoman Norton's and Congressman Davis' interest in this, and working with all three of you has been, indeed, a pleasure. I know all three of you know me very well, and I'm very blunt, so my opening statement will be very blunt. Madam Chair, I believe that the Family Division in the Superior Court as it exists today is a failure. Its current organizational structure simply doesn't place the highest priority on our children's need to have their cases resolved in a timely manner. Federal law mandates that these cases be decided within 15 months, but by every indicator that we see the District Court is not obeying the law. They aren't closing their cases on time, they aren't holding hearings on time, and the best interests of children aren't their first priority. I think the proposal that they are making illustrates that. We must change the status quo, and we must change it significantly, because this current system fails its most basic responsibility, and that's putting the interest of abused children first. I believe that we have to completely revamp the structure of the Superior Court. The judge's plan resists one of the basic elements of Family Court reform--one judge for one family. The judge's plan is short on reform and long on resources and money. My position has been very, very clear all along: I'll support more funding for the District's court system, but I am doing it to make sure that the needed reforms can be fully carried out. With the funding must come improvements in the way cases are handled and families are served, and that means real change, not just a nice, pretty covering. The court must resolve cases expeditiously. Upgrading the computers and improving the court facilities, alone, won't reduce the number of children waiting to have their cases closed. It won't find permanent homes. It won't produce timely decisions. And, by themselves, these changes can't bring the District into compliance with the deadlines that are required by the adoption of the Safe Families Act. Here are the changes I think that the court must make: it should establish a specialized court, require that judges are trained before they serve on Family Court, and mandate that judges sit on the Family Court bench long enough to become effective, and, finally, every judge that serves on this court must volunteer. The children and families need a court that focuses exclusively on their welfare and not the court's welfare. The practice of allowing judges who rotate off the bench to take cases with them has to end. A specialized Family Court by its very nature requires that all family cases stay in the Family Court. The one judge/one family concept is central to reform. It means that families won't be shuttled from one judge to another. A judge who knows the full history surrounding a child's family will be better able to consider that child's true best interest. We need judges who know what works and doesn't work for a particular family, and they must also know when enough is enough. In the District, embracing one judge/one family means that the judges will no longer take their cases with them when they rotate off the bench. Judges tell me that family law doesn't offer the types of cases that carry prestige or enhance an ambitious judge's career, but I believe these cases are vitally important because the lives of the children and the trust of the family are directly at stake. That's why I'm insisting that the paramount consideration in making judicial appointments to the Family Court must be that the judge specifically wants to sit on this court. The judge has to be committed to the work or the children and families that come before the court or the court will not be well served. Madam Chair, our proposal creates a separate pool of judges who want to sit on Family Court and have the training and the expertise necessary to serve. Training is critical for judges who have to decide if and when a home is too dangerous for a child to remain there or safe enough for a child to be returned. Changes in the way the court does its business will not happen without committed judges, and that's why I believe that 5-year terms are a key measure of that commitment. A 5-year commitment to serve on the Family Court represents one-third of a 15-year judicial appointment. Having a 5-year term on Family Court will increase the chances that a judge really wants to serve on this bench and is not just serving time. Like anything else, it takes time to become a good Family Court judge. It takes time to learn the difference between giving a parent a second chance at parenting and putting the child in harm's way a second time. It takes time to learn the difference between the fakers, the liars, the compulsives, the mentally ill, the chronic drug abusers, the alcoholics, and the parents who, with supportive services, can really stop hurting their children. It takes time to figure out the right questions to ask and to realize the flaws in the stories that you are being told. I would prefer a 15-year term for the Family Court judges, but I have compromised, and, in any case, we simply must begin recruiting people who want to be family law judges. Madam Chair, the bottom line is this: a 5-year term will let judges who want to serve on the Family Court get good at it, and they can re-up if they so choose. The legal reforms we support here--a specialized court, trained and experienced judges, and significant terms on the bench--would bring about a real change in the way that this court is organized and how it goes about its business. But these changes simply will not happen until the judges are convinced that change is necessary, and unless the community supports those changes. So I hope that today's hearing sends the clear message that we mean business about creating a real family court. Our children deserve no less than the best that a Family Court can give them, and that is giving them timely decisions about their future. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mrs. Morella. Thank you, Mr. DeLay. Frankly, it has been your leadership that has brought us to this point today where we are considering an appropriate reform. [The prepared statement of Hon. Tom DeLay follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.070 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.071 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.072 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.073 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.074 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.075 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.076 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.077 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.078 Mrs. Morella. I know that this would be a tough act to follow, Ms. Meltzer, but I will recognize you and then Judge McCown, and then we'll open it up to questions. Ms. Meltzer. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman Morella, Congresswoman Norton, Congressman DeLay, and other members of the subcommittee. Thank you for inviting me to testify this afternoon and for your leadership on this important subject. As court-appointed monitor of the District of Columbia's child welfare system under the LaShawn lawsuit, the Center for the Study of Social Policy routinely evaluates and reports on the performance of the child welfare system. Although much of our work in the past several years has focused on the operation of the Child and Family Services Agency, accurately assessing the effectiveness of child welfare services necessitates also looking at the functioning of the Metropolitan Police Department, the Office of Corporation Counsel, and the District of Columbia Superior Court. Each of these agencies performs critical functions in the provision of effective child welfare services and, like a chair, the system stands or falls on the joint performance of each of its four legs. It is not news to this subcommittee that the District's child welfare system does not comply with the requirements of the LaShawn Remedial Order or with the Federal Adoption and Safe Families Act. Too many children in the system grow up in foster care without achieving timely permanence through reunification with their birth family or through adoption. It is for this reason that I strongly support the legislation for change in the Family Division of the D.C. Superior Court. I say this not because I believe that the court is the root of the problem of what is wrong with the child welfare system, nor because I believe that just fixing the court will immediately solve all of the system's deficiencies; I say this because I believe that all of the intertwined parts of the District's child welfare system must simultaneously change in order to achieve better outcomes for children and families. The proposed changes in the court's structure under consideration at this hearing will make it possible for the necessary and complementary improvements at CFSA, the police, and the Office of Corporation Counsel to be effective. I am strongly supportive of the draft legislation that you've crafted, although I do have a few suggested changes. Despite the strong evidence of the desire of the current court leadership to implement improvements, I believe that legislation is necessary to address some of the structural problems that currently exist and to assure that any change is institutionalized. In my view, effective court reform must incorporate four basic elements, some of which are embodied in the legislation and some of which will require modification to the current proposal. These four elements include: Committed judges in the Family Division who are willing to serve for an extended term. The current practice of judicial rotation does not work. My preference is for a 5-year term, but I believe that if judges serve terms within the Family Division of between 3 and 5 years, there will be a substantial improvement. Judges need to be recruited who want to do this work, and then they need to be supported to continue to do this work. I also support the provision in the bill that will add permanent magistrate judges in the Family Division, and I agree with the court's recommendation that the magistrate judges be court-wide. Second, the court needs to be given the resources and be required to provide substantial training to both judicial and non-judicial personnel. This training must be ongoing and must include a provision for joint training with the court's other essential partners--social workers, attorneys, and the police. Third, the court needs to operationalize a commitment to ``one judge/one family'' that will end the arbitrary division of the caseload into separate calendars. There is no clear rationale, from my point of view, for having separate calendars for intake, case reviews, and adoption, nor for having different judges hear different family law issues involving the same family or child. Experience from around the country suggests that structuring the court to allow for ``one judge/ one family'' will yield considerable improvement in case processing timeframes and ultimately will benefit children and families. I am not convinced that there are any conflict of interest issues that would preclude assigning one judge to hear all Family Court matters for a particular family. Fourth, the court must assure that, absent a very particular and compelling reason for a case to remain with a judge when the judge leaves the Family Division, all cases should be retained by the Family Division. While I understand that the Superior Court's rationale for disbursing the Family Division cases throughout the entire court was to promote continuity, my experience over the many years that I have served as monitor suggests that this practice does not work. It does not serve the interest of the children toward achieving timely permanency, and it has created considerable discontinuity and lack of consistency for all of the other stakeholders, including social workers, the Office of Corporation Counsel attorneys, the guardians ad litem, and families. The goal is not for a child to have a permanent relationship with the judge, but to ensure that, as quickly as possible, the child has a permanent relationship with a family. It is for this reason that I suggest modifying the provision in the proposed bill that continues a special master to review the existing caseload. The existing caseload should be brought back and maintained in an adequately resourced Family Division as expeditiously as possible, with the quick hiring of magistrate judges and the selection of the Family Division judges. In summary, I hope the Congress moves quickly to enact needed legislation and that the final legislation has an expedited implementation date. At the current time, the leadership within the Mayor's office, the Child and Family Services Agency, the Office of Corporation Counsel, and the Superior Court have committed themselves to work together in more productive ways on behalf of abused and/or neglected children. This legislation has the potential to provide the framework and resources to assist the court in making needed changes that can parallel changes underway throughout other parts of the system. Thank you. Mrs. Morella. Thank you very much, Ms. Meltzer, for your very succinct and appropriate testimony. [The prepared statement of Ms. Meltzer follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.079 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.080 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.081 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.082 Mrs. Morella. Because we have a vote on the floor now, we are going to recess this subcommittee for about 15 minutes and then we'll reconvene. Thank you. [Recess.] Mrs. Morella. I'm going to reconvene the Subcommittee on the District of Columbia. It is now my pleasure to recognize Majority Whip DeLay to introduce our final witness on the second panel, Judge McCown. Mr. DeLay. Thank you, Madam Chair. It is, indeed, a pleasure to introduce Judge Scott McCown. I have been told during this whole process for over a year now that judges don't want to serve on family law benches, that judges get burned out within 18 months to 3 years if they do, that judges are not responsible for being activists in making sure a child welfare system works, that judges are to be objective bystanders in this whole process. Well, from Texas we have a judge that refutes all of those arguments. We have a judge that has been a District Court judge in the State of Texas for, I think, 12 years. He is not burned out--far from it. He is excited about dealing with the lives of children and families in Travis County, TX. He is so excited that he serves on the Texas Supreme Court Task Force on Foster Care, has served on the Texas Children's Justice Act Task Force, a multidisciplinary group working to improve the process of fighting child abuse. Most importantly, he has been active in the State of Texas in passing legislation urging an increase in funding to fight child abuse. Under the leadership of Governor Bush at that time the legislature increased funding by over $200 million in the 76th legislature. He has won many awards. He is listening to child advocacy issues all across this Nation because he is a judge that enjoys his job, enjoys working with families and kids, and enjoys what he is able to do to affect the lives of children. So, Madam Chair, I might also mention he happens to be a Democrat, too. Scott McCown, judge of the 345th District Court in Austin, TX. Judge McCown. Thank you, Congressman. It is my pleasure to be here today to perhaps as an outsider share some perspective on this. I am a Democrat. In fact, I come from a progressive wing of the Democratic Party in Texas, and you could have knocked me over with a feather when I answered the phone and Tom DeLay was on the other end asking me to take a look at this. But the reason that he asked me to and the reason I was willing to is because I have lived through legislatively mandated court reform in the child abuse area in my own State and I wanted to share briefly my experience, and then comment in really some pretty blunt terms about why the reform plan proposed by the Superior Court here simply won't make a difference. And let me begin by saying that I could be a K Street lawyer. In fact, my daughter often asks me why I'm not. And I got into this business completely by accident when I became a judge almost 13 years ago, and for the last 10 years I have been responsible for one-half of our county's child abuse docket, so I come to this from a very unusual path, but for 10 years I have been responsible for children who are brought into court by our Child Protective Services from the day the removal order is signed until the day they go home, or go with a relative permanently, or are placed for adoption, or until the day they turn 18 and graduate. And I've got a lot of graduation photos on the wall since I have been doing this for 10 years. In our State, through the leadership of Governor Bush, one of the first things he did when he became Governor was appoint a committee to promote adoption and reform the court system, and since the reform legislation took effect on January 1, 1998, no CPS case has taken more than 18 months from start to final order. The overwhelming number have taken less than 12 months. Within 10 months of removing a child from a parent where termination is appropriate, we terminate. Within 20 months the child is adopted--not 20 more months, but 20 months from removal. Or within 10 months the child is placed permanently with a relative. And over 50 percent of the time, after appropriate services, within 9 months a child is returned home. We have done that through legislatively mandated reform. What it takes is a court that is committed, where a judge, a single judge, from the day the case opens until the child leaves the system, is responsible and accountable for that child's life. Now, critics of this proposal have said that, ``Well, we can't do that because people will burn out.'' In fact, if you have a committed judge who takes the case from beginning to end, the satisfaction of making that work and meeting those performance standards is what guards against burnout. The high burnout rate in the District I think is actually a result of the calendar system that the District uses, where they divide the case between many, many different judges, and judges can't experience success and can't see the happiness, really, of families. The other thing I would say to you about burnout is that judges are not fragile and they can do this job. We ask police officers to be police officers for a career. We ask social workers to be social workers for a career. And judges who have far less stress from the field in both of those occupations can do this job without burnout, and they do all over the country. In urban areas every bit as difficult as the District we have family courts with judges who have been there 10, 15, 20 years working on the problems of children and families. The other argument is that we cannot find quality judges to do this. That, again, is simply not true. I would say to you, when you stop and rephrase the question, do you mean to say that in the District of Columbia the President of the United States cannot find 10 to 20 lawyers who are committed to children and families who are willing to serve in the Family Court for 5 years and make a difference, who are quality men and women? I don't think that's true. I think there are 10 or 20 who could do the job and do a quality job and care about these kids. There has been a lot of talk about whether a 5-year term or a 3-year term is appropriate, and I discuss that in my written testimony and can talk about it further, if you would like, but really 5 years is the minimum for the judge to become adequately trained and to learn how this system works and to provide the advantages of specialization, training, continuity, you have to have a judge who will do the job for at least 5 years. I'm happy to answer any questions in detail. I know it is kind of confusing. And I don't wish in any way to cast aspersions on the Superior Court. I'm sure that they care very much about kids. But the truth is, in courts all over the country poor children and families get short shrift from the judiciary, and that's what needs to change if you are going to change their lives. Mrs. Morella. Thank you, Judge McCown. Thank you for traveling here and giving us the benefit of your experiences and your commitment. [The prepared statement of Judge McCown follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.083 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.084 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.085 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.086 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.087 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.088 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.089 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.090 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.091 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.092 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.093 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.094 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.095 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.096 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.097 Mrs. Morella. I'm going to defer the first round of questions to begin with to Mr. DeLay to start the questioning. Mr. DeLay. Thank you, Madam Chairman. I did not have the opportunity to read Judge King's testimony, and I apologize for not being here, but, Judge McCown, what we're trying to do here in the District is to reform the system with the best interest of the kids in mind. Part of that is to beef up CASA in this District. Could you explain how we use CASAs in Texas? Judge McCown. Well, CASA stands for Court-Appointed Special Advocate, and I'm sure the committee members are familiar with it. In Texas each jurisdiction will have a CASA organization. It is usually organized as a nonprofit. And the organization will supervise, train, recruit community volunteers who will then advocate for a child from the beginning to the end as they make their way through the system, and it has been an extremely valuable tool to bring additional resources to the child welfare system and to connect the child welfare system with places in the community that it wouldn't otherwise be connected with, and it has also been extremely valuable for our children in terms of providing advocacy and continuity. The judges in our county actually were the ones who brought and founded CASA to our county in 1986, and we have about 40 percent of our children now are served by CASA, so it is an extremely valuable organization. Mr. DeLay. I want to revisit this burnout issue. First, you mentioned 5 years was important, but is 5 years enough, in your estimation, to create this notion that you get judges that actually want to practice family law or sit on the bench and deal with family issues? And please address the whole burnout issue--I know you were pretty articulate about that, but this is critical. See, I wanted the 15-year term to be all family court, and yet I've come down to 5 years. Is 5 years too short, in your estimation? And you might want to readdress the burnout issue. Judge McCown. Let me begin by talking about the calendars, because I think you have to understand the calendars in order to understand burnout and the term. What the District--excuse me, what the Superior Court is proposing to do in their reform plan is to have a permanency branch that is divided into three abuse and neglect calendars, one adoption calendar, one termination of parental rights calendar, and one permanent guardianship calendar. That means that if a child comes into the system they start on the abuse and neglect calendar, so they have one judge. If that judge rotates while they are on that calendar, they may have a second judge on that calendar. Then, if the child--if Child and Family Services is going to advocate for termination, the child moves to the termination of parental rights calendar, where they have at least a second and maybe a third judge. If the judge rotates while they are on that calendar, they may have a fourth judge. If parental rights are terminated and the child is now free for adoption, they move to the adoption calendar, where they have another judge. If that judge rotates off the adoption calendar while they are there, unless he takes the case with him, then they are going to have another judge. I don't know if the child stays on the adoption calendar forever, but once, I think, his plan changes to no longer be adoptable, if that happens, he may move to the permanent guardianship calendar, where he has another judge. So the calendar system means you don't ever have one family/one judge and you don't have a single person that is accountable, and then it is compounded by the rotating of judges on and off the calendars. Contrast that--and how this relates to burnout is very important. It relates to burnout because you don't have a judge who experiences success. If you are on the abuse and neglect calendar, you may see some success from the kids that go home off your calendar, but the kids you send on to the next calendar, you never know what happens. And if you are on the termination of parental rights calendar, you are seeing no success. You're sending them on. And the adoption and guardianship calendar, you don't have the joy of sending kids home. And so you've diversified and cut up the job in a way that leads to burnout. The other problem it leads to, of course, is you don't have good, consistent decisionmaking being made about that child, and, most importantly--and this is what is critical, and this relates to the 5-year terms--you don't have a single judge who is accountable through performance measures to say, ``This is a judge moving the docket, disposing of the cases,'' and that's critical, that personal responsibility. So how does that relate to the 5 years? Frankly, if you pick the right people to be judge, the 5-year issue goes away because they will want to be there for 5 years and they will renew for a second 5 years. But the reason the 5 years is critical as a piece of legislation is because that will then change who becomes judge, and that's why this is such a contentious issue. When you say you've got to be in the Family Court for 5 years, you have changed the cast of people who are willing to step up and be judge, and you've got a new cast of people from which you can presumably have a much greater chance of drawing trained, committed judges who want to be there, as opposed to, as you put it, Congressman, people who are willing to serve a 3-year sentence to then get a 12-year advantage of being on the fancy Superior Court in some other division. It changes the cast to apply for the job. The second important thing about 5 years is that cases are filed every day throughout a 5-year term, and so if you want a judge who is actually going to be there for that child and that child's family, then you've got to have a judge who is going to be there for some number of years. I illustrate this with a model in my written testimony that, if you are following the cases and we assume it takes a year to dispose of the case, which would be fabulous in the District, and you were there 5 years, 80 percent of the cases would have one judge/one child. If you were there only 3 years, then only 66 percent of the cases have one judge/one child. So it affects the delivery of the one judge/one child. But, finally, and perhaps most important, I have had children die on my docket, so I'm not here to criticize anybody. I've had two children die as a result of decisions that I made and signed orders on. This is a difficult business. It takes about 2 years to figure out who is who and what is what and how you do this. If you have a judge for 2 years learning, getting up to speed, you have the advantage of that judge for 1 year and then they're gone--66 percent of the time training, 34 percent of the time performing, as opposed to 5 years, which would be 44 percent of the time training and 56 percent of the time performing. It makes a huge difference. You've asked me whether 5 years is enough. I would say 5 years is the minimum. If it is a 5-year term with renewable, I think you've got a great start toward changing the system. It is the minimum. Mr. DeLay. My time is up. Thank you. Mrs. Morella. We'll come back for another round. Ms. Norton. Ms. Norton. I think in fairness I have to hear from those who have opposed. I was not going to begin with that question. I do want to lay the predicate for it by understanding something about Travis County. Where is Travis County? Judge McCown. It's in Austin. Well, Austin is in Travis County. Ms. Norton. What does it include? What does it include? Judge McCown. We have about 200,000 children, so we're about double the size of the District in terms of child population. About 20 percent of our children would be in poverty, which is about half what the District is, but because we're double in size we actually have more children in poverty in the county than does the District. And---- Ms. Norton. I just wanted to understand what Travis County is, because we're not in a county, we're not in a State. Judge McCown. Right. Ms. Norton. There has been a lot of talk about panels here from Judge McCown. Our bill does, in fact, require one judge/ one family, and I don't want to insert into this something that is not in our bill, but I do think those of you who have said that 5 years are not appropriate for this place need to respond to what I think was an important answer that you heard from Judge McCown. I suppose first I should hear from Judge King, because, according to Mr. McCown's testimony, your plan would, even with our bill, force people into four or five different judges. Since that is obviously against the express intent of this bill, you need to respond to what he said, if you would. Judge King. Thank you, Congresswoman Norton. Let me thank, in his presence, Congressman DeLay, whose efforts have been so helpful in focusing attention to this area. I'd like to pick up on one thing that Judge McCown said that I believe is a feature of our proposal reading our court, our judges, our lawyers. I, of course, am not competent to comment on the legal culture in Travis County. But I believe that a 3-year term in our situation draws a balance between the threshold to bring people into the family assignment and at the same time, with renewable and extendable terms, would encourage judges to continue service in that area. I think Judge McCown said it best. If the Family Court is well-designed and the work is adequately supported, the 3-year or 5-year issue goes away, because the judges will become interested in renewing and extending those terms. So what our settlement on 3 years--and I appreciate that in any political determination there's always expected to be some trading and compromise, and we appreciate there has been a tremendous amount of compromise. On this area I am trying very hard to find a way to go beyond what we would recommend, and I can't, in good conscience, do so, because I am looking at a circumstance that many of our strongest family judges have come from ranks where they weren't necessarily family judges to begin with and that become stars of the Family Division and the Family Court. I believe that this will give us the strongest appeal, given the pool of lawyers that we are looking for, to come on to the Superior Court, to opt into the Family Court, and to then stay. So I believe that the people that we are looking for will get there. They will get there by professional development and commitment as they do their work, rather than---- Ms. Norton. I don't know what the answer here is, and, you know, it is all ``a priori'' blueprint stuff that depends on individuals. I must say that I am struck by the antipathy between what everybody expresses, which is the notion that you've got to want to do this and volunteerism on the one hand and compulsion on the other. ``Hey, you've got to want to do this, but you've got to want to do it for 5 years or for 3 years or whatever.'' And I am completely unconvinced that if you want to do a particular kind of work you will never burn out. Let me speak about the Congress. People want to be in Congress so bad that Mr. Delay is against campaign finance in order that they would be able to spend any amount of money to get here. People pay--raise a million, $2 million, $3 million to sit in the House of Representatives. They kill their opponents to be here. They come here and there is very little turnover based on being defeated, I say to my fellow Democrat, Judge McCown, but there is a lot of burnout, and we lose some of our best Members, people who I can't imagine leaving--they are in closely held Districts, they have had to raise money every time, they love what they are doing, they would love to stay here if they could find an easier way to do it. They have proven that they want a volunteer to come. They have proven in a way that no judge will ever have to prove. But they get burned out. They go back home to go into law or they bother us from K Street. [Laughter.] So, I mean, whoever wants to tell this Member that if you want to do something you will never burn out has a very high burden to meet, and so far I have not had it met. Now, Judge McCown, good lawyer that he is, wants to attempt to meet that burden. Judge McCown. I'd like to meet that burden, if I could. I don't mean to suggest that a person who volunteers and has commitment doesn't burn out. I don't mean to suggest that at all. What I do mean to suggest, though, is that the way the District organizes its calendar right now and proposed to promotes burnout--that if you change the way the calendar is organized and, with increased resources not just for the judges but for Children and Family Services so that you can experience greater success, that will also decrease burnout. Those are critical, so don't misunderstand me. Those two steps are critical. Having taken those two steps, the question then becomes, ``Do we want to ask judges to serve for 3 years or 5 years?'' And what I'm saying is that, as an administrative matter, when you think through the numbers, a 3-year term does not give you a trained, competent judge for most of the time he sits in the division. It does not give you one judge/one family for most of the cases that are heard in the division. And you will change the pool of applicants based on whether you require three or require five. Ms. Norton. Judge McCown, are you aware that our judges sit on the average for 9 years, and that, therefore, 3 years would be one-third of the time that the average judge sits on the bench in the first place? Judge McCown. Well---- Ms. Norton. Are you familiar at all with our court? Have you spoken with anybody in the District of Columbia who is familiar with our courts? Judge McCown. Yes, ma'am. I---- Ms. Norton. Who? Judge McCown. Well, I talked with Jim Marsh at length, who is a child advocate and an attorney who has practiced in the District. I read all of the written testimony from the judges. And what I'm bringing to you are not somehow idiosyncratic or local principles from my district. What I'm bringing to you is best practices in judicial thinking that you will find in the books and the manuals. Ms. Norton. Yes, well, we found a lot of disagreement on best practices and the number of years is all over the map, Judge McCown. I do think this notion--if I could just ask your indulgence to respond to one of Judge McCown's point--if Judge McCown is right that somehow in the Family Court with the panel system you have--divorces and whatever, branches or whatever--that there would be--we would no longer have one judge/one family. That raises the most troublesome point for us because Mr. DeLay and I are in agreement that there must be one family for one judge. I think you need to respond specifically to Judge McCown's notion--I didn't hear you respond to that earlier--about whether your division within the Family Court will take away one of the prime points of this bill. Judge King. We don't disagree with that notion. In fact---- Ms. Norton. Well, how will you organize--if it is 3 years, how will you organize the court so that one judge and one family, in fact, is the case? Judge King. The calendars, as we plan them--and let me point out that we are constantly looking at that to see if there is--to see if that is the best way to implement one family/one judge. We don't disagree with that goal at all. The way it works now, according to the plan, the way the plan sits now, teams of a judge and three magistrates would take the case in, the case would go to a team member from the day it came in and it would remain with that team member for the balance of the life of that case. The only time it would go out to one of the other calendars, assuming that it had the same child and there were the same issues, would be in cases where due process requirements required that a different judge hear some parts of the case. For example, a termination trial might require a judge who had not spent years listening to hearsay and hearing third-hand comments from social workers about other family members, and so on, just to give the elements of a fair trial in the termination process. But otherwise there would be one judge or magistrate judge, depending on who took it, picked up the case. That judge would be supported by the team, would be able to consult on the case, much as in the medical profession--you have grand rounds--so you'd have an opportunity to have a constant dialog with other judges. We already have proven the elements of a one judge/one family system because that's much of what we do now, and I can say from my own experience in neglect cases that I agree with Judge McCown--there is nothing more satisfying than being able to take a case where, for example, an adoption looks like it is going to work, and conferring with the adoption judge, that case gets sent to my calendar or the matter gets sent to my calendar. I simply instruct the parties to file it on my calendar and I'm responsible for the entire thing, for closing the case. So we have--we are very acutely aware of the advantages of one judge and one family, and our calendar structure addresses families and children where they don't all have the same issues. A custody issue, for example, doesn't need to go on an abuse and neglect calendar, it should go on a custody calendar. If there is a custody issue in a neglect case, then it stays on the neglect calendar. So we are very much in agreement on the one judge/one calendar issue. I would also--let me point out one other thing there has been on the burnout issue. There is satisfaction in being able to take a child's case to the conclusion, the successful conclusion for that child. There aren't a whole lot of things a judge does that are more satisfying and important and fulfilling and that make a greater contribution to the community. The problem in the past--and I'm happy that we are sitting at the table here, that among us at the table here is Dr. Olivia Golden. In the past, we have not had that adequate resources piece, so that, no matter what the calendar structure we had was, we knew going in that it was going to be extremely difficult to provide the services and to focus the appropriate resources in bringing the case to permanency promptly. I believe, I'm very optimistic, that's in the process of changing and that we are moving to an era when that won't be true, and obviously that is going to make a big difference for judges, as well as social workers and others involved in the system. Mrs. Morella. The gentlewoman's time has expired. Picking up on the same point, it seems to me that the mandated length of service is a critical point where there are different opinions. The Senate version, the Senate draft of proposed legislation would have current judges serving 5 years, but would have the newly appointed judges serving 3 years--I'm sorry, just the opposite. Those who are currently serving would be serving the 5 years--will serve the 3 years. Judge King. If I may, I believe---- Mrs. Morella. Would you clarify that, and then I want to pick up on another point. Judge King. Yes. We haven't actually seen the draft, so I'm a little bit shooting in the dark, but I---- Mrs. Morella. I just heard about that. Judge King [continuing]. But what I have heard is that existing judges--I suppose in recognition of the fact that they've already sort of learned to be judges, but now need to learn the family--the specifics of a family assignment, and judges who have already served periods in the family court, so that they would not need the same thing, would serve for 3 years. New judges seeking appointment to the court would anticipate a 5-year term. I believe that's the structure. Mrs. Morella. I'm going to ask all of you very briefly your opinion of that, but I also want to point out something else, and that is that the plan also before us calls for judges to serve for 3 years and judge magistrates to serve for 4 years. I just wondered, have any of you given any thought to making the term 4 years? We're talking about 3 and 5 and your judge magistrates would be 4 and those who are currently serving would be 3 and the new ones would be 5 and---- Judge King. We have been--I think our notion was to be sure that terms were staggered so that you always had a pool of experienced judges and magistrates, and the other thing, frankly, we borrowed from the experience in a number of jurisdictions, including Ohio, where much of the calendar work is done by magistrate judges, and that was an experience that we drew on in formulating that part of the plan. Mrs. Morella. Yes. And you think that would be effective? I know Senator DeWine has been very much involved with the Family Court issue. Judge King. Yes. And the magistrate terms are coterminous with their term of service, their 4-year terms. Mrs. Morella. Their 4 years. Would the rest of you like to comment on, again, the 3 years, 5 years, 4 years, with justification? Dr. Golden. Ms. Golden. I guess the comment I would make is that our review of the national experience--for example, as summarized in the Council for Court Excellence summary of experience across the country, shows a very big element of agreement, which is that multi-year terms matter. Having judges who come with experience and training and then who serve for multiple years really matters. I don't think we read the national experience to give you a number. The successful courts that they visited ranged from the 3-year range up. And so I don't think that there is a single answer to this. I think that the most key thing and the reason that our testimony says a minimum of 3 years is that we need the move from where we are now to a place where we have at least this multi-year opportunity in order to move ahead. And I guess the one other thing that I would add, speaking as someone embarking on the task of reform of CFSA in a way that fits with the reform of the courts is that, from my perspective, a big opportunity the this legislative change, this work offers is that we can all embark on it together and that the team of judges, the core group of judges who will serve for that multi-year period, at least 3 years, and who will be gaining--who will be having the support as well as the training and the expertise, we will have a group of judges to work closely with as we move ahead, rather than working with all 59 doing their best to remain connected and committed. So I would highlight that I think the national experience suggests multi-year, that we all do our best to interpret that. As I say, we've interpreted it as at least three, and that, in itself, is an important step. Mrs. Morella. And that some jurisdictions do have a mandated minimum of more than that. We'll be asking Mr. Harlan also, you know, for his comments on best practices as he has seen it. I am very interested, Councilwoman Patterson, especially since you are going to be having this other hearing and---- Ms. Patterson. Let me acknowledge I have no firm, fixed personal view on terms, but I take the point of recommendation made by our court in terms of what is likely to work in our own court's culture and so forth, and taking Mr. DeLay's point that change won't happen until judges accept the need for change. It's important to work with what we have today. At the same time, I would also share the view that I would very much like judges to want to serve 15 years or more in this function. I think the desire to do this work is very important. Mrs. Morella. You know, we've got to increase the concept of our culture of making this important. I've felt that way about teachers, and certainly people in a position like that. We've got to say this is something of deserving of our recognition and attention. Ms. Meltzer. Ms. Meltzer. I would just add that I guess my position is closer to Judge McCown's than the Superior Court in the District. I think that what we know is that children in this system now stay somewhere between 4 and 5 years, so if what we're really trying to do, until we bring these lengths of stays down, if we want to achieve a one judge/one child, then it leads me to support more in the range of 5 years rather than 3 years. On the other hand, I think 3 years would be a big improvement over the 6-months to the 1-year rotation that we have now. I also know from my own experience as an external monitor of the child welfare system for going on 7 years, that I still find out new things about how the system operates every day. Child welfare policy and practice is extraordinarily complex, and the more judges have the time both to learn and experience it, the better. The last thing is that I definitely think that you can recruit qualified judges who want to do this job and who want to do it for a minimum of 5 years if you set 5 years as a term. Mrs. Morella. My time has expired. I'm going to recognize Mr. Davis. But I do want you to be thinking about a question I would like to have you answer in the future, and that is: should there be something that we do to incentivize judges for wanting to get on that court besides the fact that they know it is important because they are dealing with our youth who will become our leaders, but what we might offer in that regard? So, Mr. Davis, I am pleased to recognize you, sir, for questions. Mr. Davis. I think one of the points we've left open--I just will give you my opinion on 3 years or more. It is 6 in Virginia, and let me just tell you, after 6 years everybody either wants to get re-appointed or they want a promotion to the bench. You don't have anybody who says, ``I'm burned out. I want to go back. I want to do something else.'' No one moves from the juvenile domestic relations Family Court back over to General District Court. It doesn't happen. And you get a dedicated cadre of folks who carve out a career niche, and I just don't think you have to face this with the kind of community we see out of the court system. It's just a no- brainer from the perspective that I've had, and I practiced out there for a number of years before I came to Congress. But one of the points that we've left open for discussion is the total number of judges and magistrate judges that would be necessary. We've talked about resources. You can have a dedicated cadre, but if your docket is overwhelmed, even if they are dedicated, you're back to where you were. Do we have any figures in mind at this point? What analyses have been done on this to know what resources we would need in terms of judges and magistrate judges? Judge King. We have--sidestepping for a moment the issue of the existing case load under review, we have analyzed the capacities of judges to address cases, and our conclusion is that we would need 15 judges and 9 magistrate judges to staff the Family Court as it is currently--as the current draft appears. Now, that sidesteps the issue, if you suddenly, in one block, brought all cases under review into the Family Court, then there would be a different--that would be a different situation. We are arguing for and hoping that we can come out of this with some sort of phased process for bringing cases that are now among the 59 judges in closing some of them and bringing some of them in a gradual fashion. That way we could---- Mr. Davis. Could I ask this--could we get in the record any analyses that were done to come up with these numbers so that we'd have a better feel for it? Judge King. I'm sorry? Mr. Davis. Any analysis you've done to say that we need 59? Judge King. Yes, I will be happy to do that. Mr. Davis. I just think that ought to be part of the record---- Judge King. I will be happy to supplement the record. Mr. Davis [continuing]. Judge, on what that's based so we can take a look at that. Judge King. That would be fine. [The information referred to may be found on p. 152.] Mr. Davis. Let me just--Judge, let me ask you, can you explain to me how the current mediation program in the Family Division operates? Judge King. We refer cases on a largely voluntary basis. That's going to change. I think one of the parts of our plan is that mediation should be used in every case, assuming that you've made adequate safeguards for the safety of the participants in mediation and you're watching for issues of---- Mr. Davis. So you're going to change it. Let me ask you-- let me start over here, Scott. How are mediation programs in other jurisdictions organized? Judge McCown. Well, in Texas we have mediation organized in many different ways. We took money from the court improvement project and the Children's Justice Act to fund a lot of mediation experiments, and I do support the use of mediation in this area. Some counties are mediating right at the outset to develop family plans that they feel they get a great deal of buy into, and if the plan doesn't work that they are more likely to secure a voluntary termination. Other counties--in my county, for example, we use mediation primarily toward the middle of a case to dispose of it on the merits. So there's really a wide variety of federally funded research right now, but I think mediation can be a big part of both a better resolution and a speedier resolution. Mr. Davis. All right. Let me ask--I've got two other quick questions. Judge, I understand that the current head of the Family Division, Judge Walton, is leaving the bench. How long did he serve in the Family Division? Judge King. He has been--over the years, he spent--I'd have to get the exact number, but it has been many years. It has been multiple years. Mr. Davis. And what is the process you are doing to select his replacement? Judge King. I have already contacted someone to take his place, and---- Mr. Davis. Can you tell us what process you went through? Judge King. The same process that I went for with Judge Walton---- Mr. Davis. Yes, but I'm not familiar with that. Judge King [continuing]. And that was to look among my more-experienced judges who enjoyed the respect and standing among their colleagues who I felt would be the best leader to take the Family Division through what I knew at the outset, before we even--before I even met Mr. DeLay or any of the Members here, would be a period of transition. Mr. Davis. So experience and leadership are two of the qualifications you are---- Judge King. Yes. Mr. Davis [continuing]. Looking at in this---- Judge King. Experience in family affairs, connection to the issues, and ability to lead colleagues. Mr. Davis. OK. Could I ask just one more question? Ms. Golden, I wanted to ask a question. We want to ensure that the judges have access to the necessary files, because without that you're just not going to get good decisions, and we've seen that with Brianna and some other cases, so we want to make sure that judges have access to all necessary files, data bases, other relevant information in order that they can make informed decisions about the well-being of the child. What are city agencies and organizations such as the public schools doing to implement a computer system that can be integrated with the court system? Ms. Golden. Well, perhaps I could start with the Child and Family Services Agency and then---- Mr. Davis. Sure. Ms. Golden [continuing]. Talk a little bit about other city agencies. One of the key things that makes this the right time to enact this legislation is that it is a moment of reform in the District, as well, and so several key things have happened which make it possible for us to provide information and support high-quality decisions. We've had legislation that unifies the Child Welfare Agency, so we are at last going to be able to provide information about abuse and neglect in a unified way. We have had a major commitment of resources, which will enable us to have enough social workers and enough attorneys, which is a key part of transmitting information. That's often where information doesn't happen. And we are also focusing both on our own automated information system and on closer ties to other agencies. Now that we are back as part of the District, we have the opportunity to have those conversations with our fellow agencies. So there are--all the pieces are in place to make that much more possible and much more--much stronger than it was before, and I think the opportunity to work on that with a dedicated team of judges who also have the supports to work on it on their end will give us the greatest possibility of a positive outcome. Mr. Davis. Madam Chair, my time is up and I know we have some votes on, so I will yield back. Mrs. Morella. I'd like to give Mr. DeLay an opportunity for just a few minutes to ask a question. Mr. DeLay. Thank you, Madam Chair. Obviously, we're getting pressed for time and I don't want to dwell on a lot of these issues. Let me just comment, Judge King, that I appreciate the job you are trying to do and how hard it is to do and how hard it is to change the status quo, but I've got to tell you, reading your proposed court rule, which is not even in law, it is very lacking in more areas than just the length of service and the multiple calendars and that kind of thing. Even your answers here today indicate that you're more interested in the comfort and the careers of your existing judges than in the interest of these kids. The culture--and I think someone said that the culture of D.C. is different than anywhere else in the United States. I can't disagree more. The children in D.C.--if you are an 8- year-old girl being pimped by your family members, is no different than the 8-year-old girl in Houston, TX, being pimped by their family members. The child that gets red socks--do you know what red socks are? That's where you take a baby and drop them in boiling water and it creates red around their feet--no different in Washington, DC, than they are in Seattle, WA. The kids that are being abused, the kid that just this morning on Pennsylvania Avenue that was being severely beaten by their mother in the back seat of a car is the same kind of kid that is being severely beaten in Sugarland, TX. So the kid and the abuse and the neglect is the same. It doesn't matter where it happens. It matters how you treat that kid. That is what is so vitally important in their cases. And I've got to tell you, Madam Chair, when we are looking for incentives, it is an incentive when you go to a person and say, ``You want to be a judge? Then you are going to serve 5 years of your career being a family law judge.'' And that is an incentive to become that judge, because you know you are going to spend 5 years of your career, plus options, maybe the whole 15 if you want to serve there. And what your stuff--Mr. King, I'll give you a chance to respond--is all about is keeping the status quo with a few tweaks. The status quo has failed the children of this District, and the tweaks are going to fail them again. I just have got to say--I mean, you mentioned due process in this whole calendars thing. Due process is not the issue in implementing one judge/one child. The whole concept of one judge/one child is undermined by your insistence on maintaining separate calendars. What we are trying to do--and it is systematic. What we are trying to do is to create a system that understands human weaknesses, human desires, and the way humans act when faced with a certain situation, and what you have proposed ain't going to get it. And, ma'am, with that--I'll be glad to let you respond, Judge King, but I don't need the hold this panel. Mrs. Morella. Mr. DeLay, can you come back after the vote? Mr. DeLay. I'll come back for the other panel. Mrs. Morella. And I know that the ranking member has questions, and I do, too, so if you would be patient and let us recess again for 15 minutes and come back with the same second panel, thank you. [Recess.] Mrs. Morella. I'm going to reconvene the Subcommittee on the District of Columbia. Thank you all for your patience. Now you understand what is a somewhat typical day for us. Very often there are even more votes that are called, but we did have two. I look forward to the day when Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes Norton accompanies me over to the floor of the House to vote. [Laughter and applause.] I think the majority whip is planning to come back. He wanted to also ask some further questions, and I know that our ranking member has questions she wants to ask, too. I might want to ask Judge King about this idea of one judge/one family. How do you handle a situation where a judge goes to a different court but he has a case--a family which he is serving? I know it is kind of in the legislation sort of up to your discretion to make that determination. How will you possibly make such a determination? And would a 3-year term impair that? Judge King. The way--I was just discussing that briefly with Congresswoman Norton. The case is characterized by what brings it to the court, so if it is a divorce case it comes in as a divorce case. If other issues emerge as the case develops, it turns out there are other issues, then that raises the issue of another issue needing to be decided, and there are other calendars to address those issues. What we would do in that case is to coordinate between the judges with responsibilities for, say, a divorce case and a neglect case, and the judges would work out between them which one will be responsible for the life of the case. Typically, when an abuse and neglect case comes in, that is where the case remains, and all of the other matters that might arise come onto that calendar by discussion with the judges. If I might have just a brief moment, have the committee's indulgence, I don't want to leave the record long burdened with the statements that were made just before the recess. In particular, I have to respectfully object to the characterization of our judges as not putting children first and more worried about their own comfort than about the safety and health of children. That is just wrong. It is incorrect and wrong. There is no more-dedicated group of judges who work tirelessly to try to get these cases right, to try to get them to resolution. They work extra hours. They agonize over these decisions. They take training. I have probably three requests a week for training seminars that these judges do not have to take, some of them not even in the Family Division who seek out opportunities to get better at their jobs, to learn more about what they can do to help the children and families in the District of Columbia. The second thing I don't want to leave unremarked is the comment that there's no due process issue in family cases. When we become judges and are invested--sworn in, that is, our oath contains the phrase ``to administer justice without regard to persons agreeably to the Constitution and laws of the United States,'' and those bodies of law contain rigorous due process requirements which do apply in family cases, as has been said in the Supreme Court of the United States, as has been said in the Court of Appeals in the District of Columbia. So while, of course, we want to work vigorously for the best interest of the children, we are judges and we are bound by the law. We can't just do what seems right. We have to follow the law. That's all I'd like to say. Mrs. Morella. Thank you, Judge King. I wondered if the others on the panel would like to comment on what some of the challenges might be in having one judge for one family with the 3-year term. [No response.] Mrs. Morella. What I could do is lean to--Judge McCown, yes? Judge McCown. If I could comment, I guess the need I see for change in the District relates to dividing abuse and neglect cases among four different calendars, and I guess it is going to require some further legal work today, but in jurisdictions across the country termination cases are heard by the same judge who hears everything else, and I'm not aware-- and it may be that the law in the District is unique in this regard, but I'm not aware of any Federal or circuit or any U.S. Supreme Court opinion that says a termination case can't be heard by the same judge who has heard the abuse and neglect case up to that point or would then hear the adoption and guardianship. I don't see that there is a due process issue there. When you divide it into four different calendars, you're taking your most difficult cases and moving them through four different judges instead of one judge, and I just wanted to kind of sketch for you in a vivid way what my docket is really like. I mean, from the moment the case is filed it is my responsibility and my statistic. The children come to all of the hearings. They come with their foster placement or their RTC placement, and it is my responsibility to get that child to the point where the court literally closes the case, and that is a resource-intensive issue. And one of the things that Judge King and I were visiting with is the importance--I know this is an authorizing committee and not an appropriating committee, but it is very important that the resources come with any authorizations that you make, because it is going to take resources. But the other point that I would make is that it actually turns out to be more efficient. You can move the children to permanency in a much short timeframe. And so when we say we can't do this for resource reasons, what we really mean is we can't do this right, and so we are going to be forced to do it wrong. I really think it is important that the resource issue be tackled, but that the docket be set up in a way that does it right. Mrs. Morella. I would love to have you, Judge King, respond to that--the whole docket question. Judge King. The way it works, or the way we imagine it working, as we haven't set this in place yet--as it now works, we move cases between judges only when it is necessary for due process reasons, and I agree with the general characterization that often a judge can hear everything involved in a case, but there are cases where you cannot. There are cases where the efforts at reunification, which our statute requires us to pay some attention to, have involved the kind of involvement and the kind of information that would be inadmissible in a trial, to a point where a judge cannot give the appearance of being fair in deciding a termination question, for example. And if the parents leave a termination hearing feeling that they have not been treated fairly, that they have been before a judge who had a decision made up before the hearing ever began, that is going to have long-term consequences both for the child and for the family, no matter what resolution is made. Our projection and plan is to have matters that come before--and particularly we are focusing on abuse and neglect cases--to have those cases come before one of the members of the neglect and abuse calendars, one of the teams. That's where the case will stay, from the day it comes in until the day it is closed in a permanency resolution. The exception to that would only be where there is a due process requirement that a hearing would be required by another judge, and then it would still return to the judge, so it would only be sent out for purposes of addressing a motion or a hearing, not for all purposes. It isn't successive judges; it is simply that there will be occasions when a matter has to go to another judge because the judge before whom the neglect and abuse matter is pending has been so intimately involved in efforts to either reunify or to negotiate with a potential care-giver or family member that a termination hearing would appear to be unfair. Mrs. Morella. Thank you for your comments. I am going to defer to the ranking member. I just am curious about the fact that you say it happens rarely and would only be in the cases of due process, and you've found that to be the case already? Judge King. It's certainly not in every case, but it does happen. It does happen, yes. There's a huge amount of--let me make clear there's a---- Ms. Norton. I think actually I am picking up on Mrs. Morella's question, because I think, with all due deference to the judges here, I am trying to make sure we are not angels dancing on the head of a pin, because Judge McCown would also agree, I'm sure, if due process questions are raised--you know, I think it may be unfortunate the way in which this issue has come up, and I need to know, and I think Mrs. Morella, in pressing this, is correct, although, frankly, I'm going to move on from this issue. In the normal case--and this is where I want you both to jump in and correct me and stop me--in the normal case, a case would remain, involving an abused or neglected child, would remain with one judge. There are exceptions. It may be difficult--and here's where I'd like--because it was Judge McCown whose testimony led one to believe that there would never be a time when counsel might raise the notion that a judge had been so involved with the abuse and neglect questions that other issues that may come up--divorce, another child in trouble, or the rest--would be prejudiced by comments a judge had already made. I'm not talking about thoughts in his head now. Judges are human beings and they sit on the bench and they say, ``This is the worst thing I have ever seen. This is the worst case I have ever seen. This is a terrible shame.'' They react that way, and nobody says that is prejudicial. But in comes a circumstance where--involving family law where counsel raises an issue, are you saying to me, Judge McCown, that there could be no instance in which a conflict of interest, in lay terms--in the law we call it a due process question, that the judge has either said or been so involved with the case that he should not sit on an allied case involving the same family, that never rises in Travis County? That judge should remain on this case no matter what counsel says about possible prejudice? Judge McCown. No, ma'am, and if I could break it down into three parts and kind of move toward the bottom line on your answer, the way I understand what the District is proposing or the Superior Court is proposing includes an adoption calendar and a guardianship calendar, as well as an abuse and neglect calendar and a termination of parental rights calendar. Ms. Norton. Just a moment. It also includes divorce calendar? Are those the only things that are included where a case--yes, but---- Judge King. We have a number of other calendars. I think the judge is addressing the abuse and neglect cases. Ms. Norton. OK. Judge McCown. Right. Ms. Norton. All right. Judge King. And we have a number of cases where that's not an issue. Ms. Norton. All right. Judge King. Not for calendars. Judge McCown. And so I would have no criticism of a judge who said, ``I want to be very fair, and if I'm handling an abuse and neglect case, if I don't think I should hear the termination I want to refer that to another judge.'' My point though would be that once the termination happens or doesn't happen, as I understand what the Superior Court is doing and what it proposes to do, the adoption calendar is separate. So if parental rights are terminated it doesn't come back to the same judge, it goes to an adoption judge. That guardianship calendar is separate. If it is going to go into a permanent guardianship, it doesn't come back to the same judge. So that would be the first point. Ms. Norton. Well, just a moment, because I'm trying to get this straight. Is that the case, Judge King? Judge King. That's not correct, actually. They would go out to the other calendar for purposes of that hearing and then go back to the judge who is presiding over the neglect and abuse case, so they don't go wandering around the courthouse when they need to go out to this calendar. Now, it turns out that with 1,500 new cases coming through every year there are enough cases to warrant having a separate calendar for these times when a case does have to go to a neglect--for a neglect--for a termination trial or a permanent custody trial, but then they go back to the presiding judge. And for the adoption calendar, of course, that's a calendar where there are any number of cases that don't have any abuse or neglect issues in them at all, so you need a separate adoption calendar. Judge McCown. Well, you may need other judges handling private adoptions that don't come into the context of abuse or neglect, but on a unified calendar the same judge would decide all adoption issues as the abuse and neglect, the same judge would decide all guardianship issues as the abuse and neglect. It would be one judge. What I'm saying to you about due process--and there's a difference between the minimum that the law requires and what we might want to do. I do not think that there is any Federal due process law that says a judge who is presiding over the preliminary pre-trial abuse and neglect case can also not hear the termination. That would be no different than, say, a judge who has a big antitrust case who hears all of the pretrial and also tries the antitrust case and makes the antitrust order. Ms. Norton. Would you agree with that? Do you agree with that, Judge King? Judge King. No. Children are different from antitrust issues. The problem with that is that the--when a child comes onto a calendar, comes before a judge, there is first an effort to try to work with the family. We're required by law to look at that and to consider it before moving to other dispositions, so you don't just bring a child in and say, ``Boom, you're on a trial calendar and we're going to terminate parental rights and move on.'' You have to work with the existing family. There's no normal child in these circumstances, but a rather typical pattern is crack Mom is off getting her drugs and the child is found on the streets at 3 a.m. unattended by-- unsupervised by an adult. That child comes before a judge. That judge then tries to work--find out how serious the drug problem is. Is there any chance of reaching a successful resolution, of coming to some sort of reunification, or is there a good family member. That's all negotiation. It is reacting to people. It is meeting people. It is working with social workers and lawyers to try to work out the best solution. Where that can't occur, where after those efforts have been unsuccessful, then the case has to go for trial, and sometimes it can be tried by the judge, if there has been no extensive hearsay or other inadmissible evidence or improper considerations brought into those negotiations and discussions. But a lot of times they can't. You just have to send it out for trial and then bring it back after the issue has been decided and decide--then the child is then again before the judge who retains a beginning-to-end responsibility for what happens to the child. Judge McCown. Congresswoman, Judge King and I can brief this question, but what I was saying that he said he disagreed with, but I don't think actually that he would, or maybe I've misunderstood him. There is no--as far as I know, there is no Federal law that says it is a due process violation for the same judge to preside over the beginning and middle as the end of the case. But the second point I was going to make is if, as a matter of fairness, you thought that it was fairer and you wanted to go beyond minimum due process standards and have a judge preside over the termination, that's a policy decision that could be made, but even there we're talking about two calendars and about the case if there's--whether there's termination or not, returning to the original judge, who then continues to shepherd that child toward adoption if parental rights have been terminated or toward permanent guardianship with a relative if you can find one, and I don't think that is what is happening in the District. Ms. Norton. This is very tough. You're right. We have to look even more closely at it from both sides. I tell you one concern I have with the same judge, and I just don't have the evidence of how it works, but we all know that an overriding concern is to get children adopted through the Adoption and Safe Families Act. I do not know about the District of Columbia, because I know so little. This is a matter, as you might imagine, that shouldn't even be in a Federal body like this. But I do know that when people work with a mother for a long time who is struggling to gain back her child and keeps lapsing, very often there is a tendency to give that person one more chance. You know where my prejudice lies? Terminate it. My prejudice at this point--and here this comes over many years of seeing what happens to children, very young mothers. It's very difficult to think that this woman is not going to get her life together. My concern is the opposite of the due process concern, frankly. My concern is that the judge who becomes involved with that family, has had family members come and say, ``Look, this is the only member of our family. We are working with this girl. And this girl becomes a woman and she doesn't get off and nobody wants to take that child.'' My concern is that somebody who has not become involved with that family hear this thing, look at how long this child has been there, sees that this child is now 7, how long are you going to wait? Or see that this child is now 4 or, you know--and I'm getting to the point, based on the scientific evidence, where much beyond 2 or 3 we are just tossing that child away, waiting for somebody in some court in some system to work through in good faith. So, if anything, I suppose this might be called the ``conservative'' side of the picture, but I now believe that the best interest of the child is early termination, not working with the mother until you somehow get her to do what it's too bad it turns out she can't do. She's got her life. This is a life that is just staring. Judge McCown. And, Congresswoman, that is the best argument for the one judge/one family case, because, as a judge with long tenure and deep experience, I can make an informed decision about whether this is a case where we need to give another chance or this is a case where we need to terminate. One of the problems with separate calendars is that the termination judge may lack the experience of understanding what our chances are for adoption, what our chances are for guardianship or may lack the experience of understanding that this is a family that just can't do it. You can't atomize these decisions about the family. You have to have a judge with broad experience on every one of these calendars who can make a hard call in this case about this family. Ms. Norton. I can understand that, and I can understand the argument both sides, and you are absolutely right. This comes down--this is why we give judges discretion, because this comes down--these are judgment calls. That's what judicial discretion is all about. Let me ask you, just to get on the record, what is the yearly intake in Travis County of Family Court cases and then neglect and abuse cases? Judge McCown. We have about 500 cases with about 1,000 children right now, and we would---- Ms. Norton. 500 of what kind of cases? Judge McCown. I'm talking about child abuse cases. Ms. Norton. Yes. Judge McCown. About 500 child abuse cases, with about 1,000 children, a little over on both numbers, and we would be taking in approximately 20 new cases a month. Ms. Norton. I asked because I do want us to at least keep in context what we are faced with here. The Family Court here gets 12,000 new cases per year. The Family Court here gets 1,500 neglect and abuse cases per year. This is really the predicate for my next question. I mean, I think they would die for your case load. But my next question is why judges here have, in fact, taken the cases, Judge King, and given them to 59 judges. Was that a matter of case load? Were you trying to maintain a relationship of the child to the judge? How many of these cases--what proportion of these cases have stayed within the Family Division as opposed to being shipped to all of the judges in the division? Give us some sense of how the court operates. Judge King. Until the late 1980's, 1988 or 1989, all our cases did stay in the Family Division. They would come on and appear before one judge in the Family Division, the matter would be tried and decided, and then that judge retained the case for the life of the case. In about 1988 the case--the new number of cases--and there's a larger number of children involved, but the case load was running around 250 coming in every year. In the late 1980's that started to shoot up, I believe in connection with the crack epidemic, and it went from 200 to 300 to 350, and at about 350 we were simply unable to keep all of those cases in the Family Division as a matter of judicial resources. We just couldn't do it, and so--for two reasons. One is just the hours in a day. You can fit--if all judges take the cases, that's a few hours every week that they can devote exclusively to family members and they can absorb that load, while a small number of judges in the Family Division would end up doing nothing but neglect reviews, which simply wasn't feasible because we had responsibility for incoming trials and all the other business of the Family Division that was before us. So for the calendar reasons we did that. More importantly, we had a neglect review calendar which had all of the neglect cases coming up every month for--or every periodic, every review period, which would be anywhere from 3 or 4 months in a given case to every 6 months. That calendar became so crowded that a review consisted of, on a good day, 5 or 10 minutes of a judge's time. There would be maybe 30 cases in a day, and by the time you got all the parties before the court and reviewed the report it was too short a time to do anything meaningful. So the real fundamental reason for sending them out to judges who were no longer in the Family Division was that it gave the judge an opportunity to spend some serious time with the case, to become acquainted with it, to take time at these reviews, which now take anywhere from an hour to an hour-and-a- half of judge time to schedule and review the report and conclude. So that was the reason for getting there. Obviously, if we had the resources we could move them back into the family division, where we thought they belonged at the beginning. Mrs. Morella. Thank you. We are going to be submitting questions to you that we would like to have for the record and to help us with our deliberations, because we could go on all afternoon with asking further questions. But, before I recognize the majority whip, I just wanted to ask you, Ms. Meltzer, because you are with the Center for the Study of Social Policy, about this concept we've talked about, the six different calendars, the one judge/one family, if you would like to make some comments, the due process. Ms. Meltzer. Yes, I am glad to respond. I think it is important to broaden the discussion beyond what they do in Texas as compared to what we think we do in the District of Columbia. Experience across the country in effective courts shows that, in fact, keeping as much as you can within one judge and within one court makes a difference. It makes a difference in the ability to move and process these cases quickly, while you are at the same time respecting the due process rights of families. I think those cases where you may need to remove the judge who has been involved in the case at the beginning in order to make a fair determination at the end, are the exceptions rather than the rule, and experience across the country shows that. Certainly, if there is a prejudiced judge, the lawyer is going to ask to change jurisdiction and you would remove the judge in that case. There are many courts that are bigger than the District that assign cases, for example, coming in to judges alphabetically. For example, one judge takes all the A's and B's this month and then carries those cases. Other courts assign cases geographically so that all the cases, for example, coming in from ward eight would go to three or four judges. This has some advantages, particularly as you are trying to promote the court's understanding of the community-based resources available to the court. Although I am not a lawyer, I am not persuaded that the potential problems of conflict of interest or due process make a difference, based on what I've seen from around the country. On the question you raised, Congressman Norton, about whether a judge who has been involved with the family for too long, has become ``soft'' on the family, I think it cuts both ways. I think we see that in judges here. I see that with some of the judges believe they have been the only continuity for this child for many years as the system has turned workers over and over and over and over again. Those judges are sometimes reluctant to cut the strings because they've become too involved. On the other hand, when you have--we see it in workers. When you have a constant turnover of social workers, sometimes the new person getting the case, they think, ``Well, you know, we haven't been able to make a decision here because we haven't given them a chance, so I'm going to start again. I'm going to start the clock running again.'' And so sometimes the turnover, in itself, produces poor decisionmaking. The key, as I see it, is to have a trained judicial work force who understands ASFA, understands the timelines, understands the nature of the practice, and can develop relationships with a stable work force of social workers--and we've got to work on that, too--and who can work together to move these cases in the best interest of children. I think that is what everybody wants to achieve, although there are some differences in opinion about how to get there. Mrs. Morella. Ms. Golden, would you like to respond to that? Ms. Golden. Yes. I also, I guess, want to take it back to our shared goals and the way I think you've all worked so hard on the discussion draft to find ways to get to those goals. I share the view, which I think several people have expressed, that the way to accomplish the goals in ASFA, which are goals about making good decisions for children promptly, sharing, I think, the concern that Congresswoman Norton articulated, that if you don't make decisions quickly you lose precious years in a child's life. So the goal is to be able to make good, quality decisions quickly so a child can have a relationship with a permanent family. What is in the discussion draft is a commitment to the principle of one child/one judge with the ability for the court to come back with a specific plan. What's in the discussion draft is the commitment to that core group of judges who will be supported and trained and experienced and able to handle the cases. That will make a huge difference for us at the agency level, because it will mean we will be working with this highly trained cadre of judges who are supported, themselves, not seeking to have our work force with its limitations stretched in quite the same way across all judges, so that means we will be doing higher-quality work, too, and we'll be able to work to ensure that those children have the best decisions possible and the best outcomes. And I, too, think that's what the national experience suggests and that we all really are very close, I think, on the principles and the key points that you've laid out in your discussion draft. Mrs. Morella. Thank you. Mr. DeLay. Mr. DeLay. Thank you, Madam Chair. I might, just for the panel and for the chairwoman and Ms. Norton, the key to all of this is a system, and that's what we're arguing about here--a system, as I mentioned earlier, and the system that answers a lot of your problems is if you have a strong CASA, a strong CASA unit here that brings in the community that in two ways--one, the CASAs are in the courtroom with the best interest of the child, so the judge may get soft on the family but the CASA doesn't get soft on the family because the CASA is interested in the child, and the community and the CASAs hold the judges accountable, which is what people are not talking about here, particularly, Judge King, in your draft. It is not--there's no way you can hold judges accountable. So I want to ask you, Judge King, how does the Superior Court currently use CASA volunteers and how do CASAs factor into the reform plan, because I read your plan and I see no mention of CASAs or child advocates or anything. Judge King. We actually have talked about that on a number of occasions in the course of our staff discussions. We are very supportive of CASA. They have performed an invaluable service in our court. They have a strong program. Their leader, Ms. Rad, is present today in the hearing room. They have sought funding from us. We've given them almost 90 percent of their request traditionally, and we are very supportive. We'd like to see that role expanded. I agree with you entirely that one of the things that we need is accountability. The draft I notice has a specification that there will be a report using--we would prefer a generic standard, because standards may change, but some nationally accepted best practices gauge and will hold us accountable. We want to be sure. We welcome that. That should be a part of any reform plan, and we think CASA should be strengthened and encouraged and enhanced. We would welcome that. Mr. DeLay. Does that mean that you, as the chief administrative judge, would encourage any of your judges or all of your judges to, especially on the tougher cases, to make sure they have a CASA on that case? Judge King. Absolutely. Mr. DeLay. Because I don't believe that's the case right now. What I understand is CASA only handles about 350 cases at this point. Judge King. It's a small percentage because their office here has been small and they have been--I know that they, like the rest of us, are struggling for resources. But we have informally encouraged judges to use them historically as a part of our plan. That will be increased, and, to the extent that they can be expanded to cover a greater portion of our caseload, we would welcome that. It would be a very helpful addition to our---- Mr. DeLay. That's good. The court's written comments indicate an unwillingness to end the practice of allowing judges to take family cases out of the Family Division. Can you tell me how many cases exist outside the Family Division right now? Judge King. The current--and I think maybe you had not come into the room as I gave a little bit of history as to how we-- no, I think you were--the history as to how we got there. Looking forward, our plan contemplates that all of the cases do stay in the Family Division, only with very narrow exceptions. One obvious one is if the case is so near permanency placement that to transfer it to another judge who then has a learning curve and has to get set up again only to terminate the case months later---- Mr. DeLay. I hate to interrupt you, but I'm asking what now. How many---- Judge King. Right now it is the existing cases we have been talking about, approximately 4,500. Mr. DeLay. OK, 4,500. And what is the range and average length of stay in foster care for the children who are subject to those 4,500 cases? Do you know? Judge King. Let me--if I may, let me supplement the record with a response to that question. Mr. DeLay. OK. Judge King. I would be happy to give it to you. [The information referred to may be found on p. 152.] Judge King. I know that it does range from very new to cases that have been in a number of years. Mr. DeLay. OK. Then you may have to submit this too, but do you know why these cases have not come to resolution and permanent placement for those children? Judge King. Many of them are cases that have eluded permanency placement, and I mentioned a couple of types of cases. I'm going to see if I can just--here a teen who sets fire to every foster home she has been placed in. Just it has eluded us. We haven't found the right formula. A teen who keeps absconding from placements each time she is placed in a placement, but she will call a judge and the judge is able to sort of talk her back into care and back onto her medication. A child of 15 who was hospitalized after 5 years of sexual abuse in her adoptive home. She endured this without reporting it in order to protect her younger sister, who was not being abused. Many of them are cases that are just very, very--have proven very, very difficult. Another--if there's any single group of cases that has proven difficult for us, it's older teens. When people come into the system for the first time. Now, that's not to say that we can't improve our record with early referrals. When a child comes in at 18 months or 3 years or in the very young period, I think there is some improvement, and I hope that we can enjoy that, or expect to find that for these children when we--as we move into our new organization. But there will be some cases where a child comes into the court at 11 or 12 and adoption becomes less likely--not impossible, but less likely. So those are the types of cases. Mr. DeLay. Yes. And it's pretty tough. Madam Chair, I just have one question of the judge, but I might mention there is an answer and we are building it in my home county and it is a community for those kids to have a permanent home, not moved from foster care to foster care. And when we get that built we're going to come build it here in D.C. Judge King. Then we'd like to see it and look at it. Mr. DeLay. It will be here. Judge McCown, do you think that cases should stay with the judge who is most familiar with them when the judge leaves the Family Division, or should those cases stay in the Family Division and those that are already outside the Family Division be returned to the Family Division? Judge McCown. That's a really important question, because at first blush it seems to be contradictory to say that cases that are outside the Family Division should be returned and at the same time be saying you ought to have one judge/one child, but I'm saying both of those things, so how do I reconcile the two? The answer is that you have to look at this in terms of judge hours, and it makes no sense logically to say we don't have enough judges in the Family Division, so those cases have to go and leave the Family Division and be disbursed among other judges, because if those other judges are doing those cases right and are giving them the amount of time they should take, then you could collect up how much time that is and move it into the Family Division. However many judges it takes in the Family Division to do the cases right--and, again, that comes back to the appropriating committee is going to have to work with the authorizing committee. But the reason you want all those cases in the Family Division is for two reasons. First, look at this from the point of view of Dr. Golden's outfit. They have 1,200 hearings a month that are spread right now over 59 active judges and about 20 senior judges. That means that a group of social workers that is already spread too thin with not enough time is being asked to answer to 80 different judges in different places with different agendas, and when you are working places in you don't get the consistent, on-time calendaring. If you move them all back into the Family Division, where they are handled in one place by one set of judges with an on- time calendar, it would make a tremendous difference to Child and Family Services. Second, look at it from the judge's point of view. Once I leave the Family Division, I cannot stay focused on what is the current resources in the community, and I am no longer focusing on what my numbers are in terms of moving these children to permanency. I've now been moved. I've got to learn a new area of law. I've got to focus. I've got responsibilities. I have a whole different set of priorities. Contrast that with the judge in the Family Division, which the judge in the Family Division is current on who is doing what in the community and what the resources are and focused on the numbers of getting children to permanency in a set amount of time and being accountable for it. Now, it may be--and I just want to say I am actually dubious that the judges who are taking their cases are really all that familiar with the cases and the kids and are giving it all that time. That may be true, but, frankly, I know a lot of judges, and if it is true here the rest of the country needs to come here, because it would not be true anywhere else in the country. The calendaring system you already have means that when the judge leaves with that case he hasn't had it from the beginning, anyway. There hadn't been one judge/one child now, and so you just have some judge who has the case last, who rotates off with it into another division and can't stay current on it. I think those cases need to come back. They need to be carefully reviewed and there needs to be a real permanency push. I don't doubt that they are the most damaged of the kids and that it is going to be very difficult to seek permanency. I also want to say I don't doubt that there are some judges and some kids who really know each other, and you might want to have an exception rule. But if I were doing the exception rule I would have a total overall percentage. You can have an exception rule, but it can't be more than 10 or 20 percent of the total case load to sort out the cases that should stay from the cases that need to go back and re-investigated and re- invigorated. Mr. DeLay. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mrs. Morella. Thank you, Mr. DeLay. I'm going to ask, Judge King, ask you to provide something for the record. The current workload, including filings by calendar and dispositions for the judges in the Family Division, and the number of Family Division cases that are assigned to judges in other divisions of the Superior Court. I can give it to you in writing, but if you would get that back to us, and then---- Judge King. That's fine. We would be happy to supply that information. Mrs. Morella. Thank you very much. [The information referred to follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.098 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.099 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.100 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.101 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.102 Mrs. Morella. And we will be asking some other questions of this terrific panel of great expertise. Congresswoman Norton, did you want to make any statement? Ms. Norton. Thank you very much. I think you're right, Madam Chair, that we can get any more information we need from these witnesses through written questions. Mrs. Morella. We certainly held you a long time, but we appreciate very much your commitment and the expertise that you bring to it, and thank you for traveling such a long distance, Judge McCown. Judge McCown. It's always a pleasure. Mrs. Morella. Thank you very much, Judge King. Thank you, Councilwoman Patterson. Thank you, Dr. Golden. Thank you, Ms. Meltzer. Thank you. The third panel will now come before us. Judge King. Thank you, and thank you for the interest. I think the children of the District of Columbia are going to benefit. Mrs. Morella. Thank you. I think they will, too. So now I am going to ask our third panel, who has waited so long, patiently: Sister Josephine Murphy of St. Ann's Infant and Maternity Home; Steven Harlan, chairman of the board, the Council for Court Excellence; Margaret McKinney of the Family Law Section of the District of Columbia Bar; and Tommy Wells, executive director, the Consortium for Child Welfare. Again I reiterate my appreciation and the appreciation of the subcommittee for your patience in waiting so long, but it is such an important issue. I will ask you--I should have asked you before you were seated--the policy, again, of this committee and subcommittee is to swear in those who will be testifying, so if you will raise your right hands. [Witnesses sworn.] Mrs. Morella. Thank you. The record will reflect affirmative response. Sister Josephine, thank you so much for being with us. We will proceed with you, if that's all right, for 5 minutes testimony, and any statements that you have given to us in the way of testimony or exhibits will be included in the record. Thank you. STATEMENTS OF SISTER JOSEPHINE MURPHY, ST. ANN'S INFANT AND MATERNITY HOME; STEPHEN D. HARLAN, CHAIRMAN OF THE BOARD, COUNCIL FOR COURT EXCELLENCE; TOMMY WELLS, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CONSORTIUM FOR CHILD WELFARE; AND MARGARET J. MCKINNEY, FAMILY LAW SECTION, DISTRICT OF COLUMBIA BAR Sister Murphy. Thank you. Chairwoman Morella, Congressman Norton, Congressmen DeLay and Davis, I certainly want to thank you first for inviting me to testify today. My name is Sister Josephine Murphy. I am the administrator of St. Ann's Infant and Maternity Home. I'm happy to be here today because for many years I have felt that the legal system has failed to protect the rights of the youngest and most vulnerable members of our society, our children. I have very strong feelings about it. Brianna was one of our babies, but Brianna was only one. There are many who have died in the system. There are many who have been beaten to death and starved to death. There are many children that are in and out of St. Ann's, who come back after more abuse, where the courts return them home without enough investigation and enough rehabilitation and without agreeing to terminate parental rights when it is necessary, so I strongly support the establishment of a Family Court with trained and committed judges to serve. I say ``trained'' because I firmly believe that some child development training, as it relates to children in this system, is needed. Child care workers are required to have 40 hours of training every year by law, even if they have worked in child care for 15 or 20 years. This training for the judges should relate, I think, to such things as separation and loss, to understand how children at different age levels react to and feel about it. Also, to help the judges better understand children's fears about ``telling it like it is'' to the judge and to their lawyer. Children are afraid to do this because, as they say, ``The judge will send me home, and then I'll just get it a lot worse than I got it before for telling.'' We all have an appreciation for families and know they are the backbone of society, but it is equally if not more important, when speaking of children in the system, to look at the developmental clock of a child. Many go on for years being pitched between home, emergency placement, and foster care, and many times a continuous repeat of this until they are halfway or three-fourths of the way to adulthood. Many of our young moms and children at St. Ann's are classic examples of this. The legal system needs to put into action the Safe Family and Adoption Act of 1997, and this is where the commitment I spoke of comes in. The judge needs to follow cases through and have the courage at the right time to give children back their childhood. In the best interest of a child, there comes a time to look at the timeframe realistically and say, ``It's enough.'' It is time to terminate parental rights and end the child's ordeal and satisfy the need and right they have to permanency, protection, and love in a family setting. This needs to be done before they are older and so aggressive and disturbed that nobody wants to adopt them. I strongly advocate the 5-year term or longer, and I do this because as I just mentioned, training. I don't know about the rest of you, but I have found whenever I go on a new mission it takes me the first year or two to even know what end is up, and so I think our children deserve better than to have someone new constantly coming into that position. Another issue is the need for greater coordination and communication between courts and social services, a need for more professional respect and working as a team in the best interest of the child, whose very lives are in their hands--and I repeat that--their very lives are in the hands of those judges and social workers. A judge only knows what the social worker tells him and writes in the record. If the child had been placed in and out of the home five times, the mother had already been in 19 drug treatment programs--as one of our moms was, to no effect--the social worker needs to communicate this and the judge needs to demand the information if she doesn't, and then act on it. Another thing that always bothers me is that people involved in these cases miss court hearings, which causes cases to experience long delays, as do the interstate compact papers, which is another whole problem--and one which I hope someone will deal with before long. Family Court should act as the authority to hold accountable those that are empowered to work toward the best interest of the child, finding creative ways to keep siblings together and allowing the child his or her best and most expedient opportunity for permanency. I know I'm running out of time, so I beg you for once, just once, let's really do something in the best interest of the child. Just for once, forget about Democrats, Republicans, judges, social workers, and our own best interest and consider what's the right thing to do and have the intestinal fortitude to do it. Please, I would ask--and I know this happens many times with bills, etc.--no slipping in the attachments, amendments, whatever, to get what we want to further our own political agendas. Let those wait for another time, another bill. We're always telling other countries about their human rights violations, so let's clean up our own back yard first. People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Let's just pass this one for the kids--the kids we all say we love and see as the future of our country. I thank you all for listening. God bless you. Mrs. Morella. Thank you, Sister Josephine. You really say it like it is. We thank you. [The prepared statement of Sister Murphy follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.103 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.104 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.105 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.106 Mrs. Morella. Mr. Harlan. Mr. Harlan. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Morella and Congresswoman Norton and Congressman DeLay. We're delighted to be asked to testify here today on behalf of the Council of Court Excellence. My name is Steve Harlan and I chair the board of directors of the Council of Court Excellence. I'm joined here in the room by Timothy May, who is our Council's president, and Priscilla Skillman, senior vice president, who has really done a lot of work on this area. The Council of Court Excellence has been engaged for the past 21 months in facilitating the joint work by the city's public officials to reform the child welfare system and specifically to meet the challenges of implementing the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997. We believe that work affords us a relevant and contemporary perspective on the issues before this committee. The Council of Court Excellence is a District of Columbia- based nonpartisan, nonprofit, civic organization that works to improve the administration of justice in the local and Federal courts and related agencies in D.C. We have judges who are members of our board, but let me emphasize that no judicial member of the Council of Court Excellence prepared in or contributed to the formation of our testimony here today. Today's hearing focuses solely on the District's Superior Court's Family Division, and particularly its role in the city's child protection system; however, we must not lose sight of the fact that the court is simply one of several principal players in this system. Fixing the Family Division, while laudable and long-needed, will not, by itself, yield a smoothly functioning child protection system in the District of Columbia. Each part of the safety net--the Child and Family Services Agency, the Office of Corporation Counsel, the Metropolitan Police Department, and the Family Division of the court, and the private bar appointed to represent parents and children--must be fixed simultaneously. In your letter inviting the Council to testify here today, you stated that the purpose of this hearing was to examine proposals to reform the Family Division, especially to better address child abuse and neglect cases, including current backlog, and examining practices in other jurisdictions. We will address both issues, starting with the second. How do other successful jurisdictions organize their courts and child protection system? Early this year, representatives of the Council of Court Excellence and the D.C. Superior Court visited Chicago, Tucson, Louisville, and Newark, four urban area Family Courts identified as innovators in meeting the rigorous case management standards of the Federal Adoption and Safe Families Act. In March 2001, the Council of Court Excellence reported our findings. We learned that first-hand, high-quality child protection systems can both operate as divisions within general jurisdiction trial courts like the D.C. Superior Court and as stand-alone Family Courts. One key to good results in these jurisdictions has been the court-specific practices and procedures for handling cases of child neglect and abuse, always with a focus on providing better service to the children and to the users of the court. This 2001 Council of Court Excellence report listed 10 best practices. I'll not mention those, but we will add that report to our testimony here today. [The information referred to follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.107 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.108 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.109 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.110 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.111 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.112 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.113 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.114 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.115 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.116 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.117 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.118 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.119 Mr. Harlan. In our opinion, the bill under discussion today, which would reform the Family Division of the D.C. Superior Court, supports these Family Court best practices. We believe that to be true. Let me, though, comment on some specific issues within that bill. No. 1, Family Court within the D.C. Superior Court--we do support the decision to reform the Family Division within the D.C. Superior Court rather than to establish a separate Family Court. We believe that this approach promises a faster, more effective, and more economical way to improve services to children and families in the short run. In the longer run, keeping a unified general jurisdiction court permits more flexible, faster response through fluctuating court case loads. No. 2, judicial term of service in Family Court--the extension of the judicial terms in the Family Court is a needed change. We believe that a minimum of 3 years is an appropriate minimum of rotation, but hope that the Family Court operations improve so well that many judges will welcome the opportunity to serve longer. No. 3, one judge/one family--we believe this is absolutely essential. The bill mandates this system to the greatest extent practicable and feasible to ensure that all family issues in the Family Court can be handled by a single judicial officer. The bill requires the Superior Court to document how it plans to follow this mandate in a 90-day Family Court transition plan. The court has adopted a plan for providing a one family/one team approach to child abuse and neglect cases; however, heretofore, with all due deference to the Superior Court, we have not found the court willing to embrace the more comprehensive one judge/one family concept embodied in the bill. We urge the court to move to a one judge/one family system of case assignment on a unified calendar basis by having family judges concurrently hear all types of family law cases while assigned to the Family Court. This practice is followed in several of the other Family Courts that the Council of Court Excellence visited. They assigned all family law cases either by geographic sector--or by family name. No. 4, minimum number of judges--the bill locks in an initial number of Family Court judges as a minimum permanently. We do not believe that the statute should prescribe a particular number of judges of one division of a unified court, such as the Superior Court, where different types of case loads fluctuate over time. We therefore suggest that the appropriate level of judicial manpower in the Family Court be set on an annual basis by the chief judge and that Congress review that decision annually as part of its ongoing oversight. No. 5, keeping all family law cases in the Family Court--we strongly support the bill's dual requirement that now-pending family law cases be reassigned to family court and that all new cases remain in the Family Court until closed. Based on our research and site visits, we know of no other court other than the District's Superior Court, which disburses its child abuse and neglect cases to judges throughout the court outside the Family Division. No. 6, magistrates, judges, hearing commissioners, and special masters--the bill creates a new category of judicial officer, the magistrate judge, for the Family Court, but it does not authorize reclassifying hearing commissioners positions to the magistrate judge in other divisions of the Superior Court. We believe this inconsistency should be corrected. No. 7, incentives--family law matters are among the most stressful cases that judges and other court officers have ever handled. In addition, the Family Division of the Superior Court has long been under-staffed, under-equipped, and assigned inadequate space. To signal that a new day has arrived and that the service in Family Court is strongly valued, we believe that statutory training incentives should be expressly provided, as you've just heard by the good Sister here, in the bill for judicial service in the Family Court. Specifically, we suggest authorized funding for Family Court judges and magistrates to receive not less than 80 hours per year of paid offsite training in family law and related matters. No. 8, residency--we support the D.C. residency requirement for magistrate judges; however, we believe, as now drafted, it unnecessarily limits the candidate pool. Permitting magistrates to become permanent residents within 90 days after appointment rather than before appointment would enable more qualified family practitioners to apply for the magistrate judge position and thus attract new residents to our city. No. 9, staffing and space--we believe that it is an error that this bill is silent on this issue. The Family Division of the Superior Court has long been under-resourced to meet its responsibilities to this city. We hope this legislative process will correct that deficiency now and that continuing congressional priority on child protection and other family law matters will ensure that under-funding of family court does not reoccur. The D.C. Superior Court will require substantial new operating and capital funds to execute the goals of this legislation. That funding must be forthcoming if we expect the District's child welfare system to change for the better. No. 10, collaboration on the 90-day plan--the Family Court is but one part of the city's inter-woven child protection system. How the court organizes to do its work either supports or impairs the abilities of the other agencies to discharge their statutory duties to children and family. As this committee required last September with the emergency plan, we strongly urge that the bill require that the court's 90-day implementation plan be developed in full consultation and collaboration with the D.C. Child and Family Services Agency, the D.C. Office of Corporation Counsel, and the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department. No. 11, effective date--to convey the urgency of reform, we believe that the bill should have a prompt effective date, not 2 years down the road. However, we also believe that all necessary judicial staff support and facility resources must be provided to the court prior to the effective date, or we'll just be setting that court up for failure. I would be happy to answer your questions. Thank you. Mrs. Morella. Thank you very much, Mr. Harlan, and thank you for the great work being done by the Council for Court Excellence. We appreciate your key points and the work that is being done. [The prepared statement of Mr. Harlan follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.120 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.121 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.122 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.123 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.124 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.125 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.126 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.127 Mrs. Morella. I am now pleased to recognize Margaret McKinney, Family Law Section of the D.C. Bar. Ms. McKinney. Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairwoman Morella, Congresswoman Norton, and Congressman DeLay. My name is Meg McKinney. I'm the co-chair of the Family Law Section of the D.C. Bar. I have been a family lawyer practicing in D.C. and Maryland for almost 9 years, and I am a D.C. resident. The Family Law Section is compromised of attorneys who represent children and families who will be most affected by the proposed legislation. As family lawyers, we have always worked with the court to improve its functioning. We appreciate the opportunity to testify before this subcommittee. From our perspective, there are several crucial components to any reform plan for the Superior Court. First, and most importantly, the Family Court must remain part of the Superior Court and not be relegated to a separate court. We are very pleased that the legislation does not create a separate court. The other crucial elements of reform are addressed fully in my written testimony, but I will touch on them just briefly. We urge Congress to do only what is absolutely necessary to effectuate the proposed reforms and not to unnecessarily restrict the discretion of the court. Congress must remember that whatever reforms are enacted will affect all of the different types of family cases, not just abuse and neglect, and it will also affect the court, as a whole. We are also concerned about the funding of the reforms. There must be sufficient funding or we will be in a worse position than when we started. The Family Law Section is most concerned about the length of judicial assignment to the Family Court. If Congress requires a minimum assignment, we believe that minimum should be 3 years. We want to see the best and most-experienced judges sitting in the Family Court. We believe the children and families of D.C. deserve nothing less. However, as my written testimony explains and as you've heard earlier today, a Family Court assignment is grueling. Judges in Family Court don't have juries to help them make decisions. They often don't have the resources needed to really help the families. And they have very little control over every other part of the abuse and neglect system. It is a tremendous challenge for any judge. If the legislation requires more than 3 years and places additional restrictions on the judges, we are not likely to attract the best judges to the Family Court. We may not even be able to fill all the positions. The reason for this is not that it is considered a less-prestigious assignment; it is simply that it is extremely challenging, both intellectually and emotionally. Judges in Family Court see the worst possible family situations day after day. They repeatedly see problems that have no solution, yet they are expected to fix those problems. That is a daunting prospect. The longest a Family Division judge is required to sit in Maryland is 2 years. In Baltimore, judges are assigned to the family dockets for 1-year terms. If given proper support, we believe judges will want to stay in the Family Court, but first we have to attract them to it, and we must acknowledge that Family Court is not for everyone. Judges are judges, not social workers, and they're not supposed to be social workers. There is a narrative in my testimony that describes what I saw in just 1 hour in one of the three abuse and neglect courtrooms in the District. I saw a dedicated and experienced judge, dedicated, experienced attorneys and social workers struggling with very difficult problems. One case involved a 17-year-old boy who had been shot 2 nights before in a drive-by shooting. His mother was in jail. In another case, the alleged father of the child was in jail and the mother refused to submit to a psychiatric exam, even though she had been previously institutionalized. Despite the judge's urging, the mother refused. There was also a 14-year-old mentally handicapped child whose mother, an alcoholic, gave the child to a family friend 10 years ago. The child's father had been in and out of jail. The family friend died, leaving her daughter to care for the child. The child entered the system because it was that daughter who had been accused of abusing her; 15 witnesses were scheduled to testify, most of them against the caretaker. There was another case involving a teenage girl with sickle cell anemia who came to the United States from a Third World country where no medical treatments were available to her. Her uncle, who was the only person who had health insurance to cover her, was accused of sexually abusing her. In fiscal year 2000 there were more than 4,500 open abuse and neglect cases in Superior Court. Of those, 1,400 were new cases. But there were also more than 4,600 active domestic violence cases, more than 3,400 active juvenile delinquency cases. In the Family Division and the DV unit, as a whole, there were more than 33,000 open cases in fiscal year 2000. Each of these cases represents a family in trouble. I haven't even tried to describe in my testimony the difficulties faced by judges in juvenile, custody, divorce, domestic violence, and support cases in Superior Court. Family cases, especially abuse and neglect, are extremely complex. I give you this information to illustrate those complexities and to demonstrate that the complexities are not the result of the court system. We're dealing with human beings who have human frailties, and reforming the court will not solve the underlying societal problems that lead to the abuse and neglect of our city's children, nor will it create more permanent homes for those children. We appreciate the need for reforms and we are grateful that Congress is willing to help address those problems, but we urge Congress to be cautious and to make sure that the reforms are truly beneficial to this city. Thank you. Mrs. Morella. Thank you very much, Ms. McKinney. Please know that your testimony in its entirety will be in the record. [The prepared statement of Ms. McKinney follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.128 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.129 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.130 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.131 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.132 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.133 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.134 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.135 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.136 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.137 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.138 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.139 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.140 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.141 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.142 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.143 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.144 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.145 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.146 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.147 Mrs. Morella. I am pleased to recognize Tommy Wells, executive director of the Consortium for Child Welfare. Mr. Wells. Mr. Wells. Thank you, Chairwoman Morella and Congressman DeLay and, of course, my Congresswoman, Eleanor Holmes Norton. Thank you very much. I am Tommy Wells, the director of the Consortium for Child Welfare, and I am testifying today in strong support of the proposed bill to establish a Family Court for D.C. within the D.C. Superior Court. The Consortium is a 24-year-old umbrella agency for the private family service providers for the District of Columbia, and we have advocated for a Family Court for D.C. since 1997. We believe it is extremely important to have well-trained judges who want to hear cases of abuse and neglect and have experience in family law. We support using magistrates to staff the Family Court, drawing from a large pool of qualified attorneys in the city who have worked for many years in this field on behalf of children. All new cases of neglect and abuse must remain with the Family Court, and the practice of sending the cases all over the courthouse should end. This one change will improve outcomes for children by enabling government attorneys to be present at all child abuse and neglect hearings, and it will assure the consistent application of our child welfare laws. Understanding there are arguments on both sides of the issue, we support 5-year judicial appointments to the Family Court. We have seen the incredible impact on the number of children adopted from the foster care system since one judge has been assigned that responsibility--from less than 60 per year to almost 300 per year. This bill allows for providing services closer to where children and families live. We support establishing a satellite court for children and families east of the Anacostia River. The location of the current court best serves the interests of the lawyers and judges and the other professionals that practice there, not the 60 percent of the District's children and the majority of the families and children that live east of the Anacostia River that are in the child welfare system. The likelihood families are reunited or children are freed for adoption in a timely manner is directly related to a parent's involvement in the court process. A satellite court would dramatically increase parents' ability to participate in this process. Last, the bill provides badly needed resources, or hopefully the bill can help spur badly needed resources for the court's Family Division. It is with--this court has--our current Family Division has received the lowest priority for support for too many years. The current Superior Court is not readily accessible to the city's children and families. They have to wait in the hallways to have their cases heard, and there are generally not any rooms available for social workers and attorneys to meet with their clients. The current computer system is not up to the task of tracking our children's cases. Thank you for this opportunity today. Based on my 15 years experience in working in child welfare, there is no doubt in my mind that a Family Court will improve the outcomes for our children. Thank you. Mrs. Morella. Thank you very much, Mr. Wells. [The prepared statement of Mr. Wells follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.148 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.149 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.150 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.151 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T6884.152 Mrs. Morella. Thank you all for your testimony. I guess I'll start with Mr. Harlan. I know that in the recommendations--I guess those 10 recommendations that you submitted from the Council for Court Excellence, you talked about incentives, and it was pretty much the kind of question I wanted to ask the previous panel, as we talk about burnout of judges and the area's difficulties in attracting the most committed people to learn and to serve in the Family Division of the Superior Court. Are there some incentives that could be offered that would attract more people and demonstrate society's high value placed on such judges? And if any of the rest of you would like to comment on that also. Mr. Harlan. Yes, we believe incentives are an important part of this process. As you point out, there has been a lot of belief that the Family Court was, in fact, a second level of importance within the Superior Court system, and it's quite unfortunate. That has to change. The location, just as you just heard, and the physical facilities, they are not conducive to encouraging a person to want to be a part of this Family Court, a judge. Specific incentives, I think one thing--by moving to a unified calendaring system where it is one family and one judge, that it would be much more interesting to the judge not to have to listen to just child abuse and neglect cases, but to really understand--and you've heard the judge from Texas talk about--to have the feeling of success when things work. Right now they just get passed down and there's not that feeling. So I think the whole attitude of the judges will change with that fundamental one judge/one family unified calendaring approach. There are some other suggested in our written testimony. We had some other ideas for incentives, such as additional guaranteed pay, paid study or training interval of 6 to 8 weeks between terms for any judge or magistrate who signs up for a second term of 3 or 4 or 5 years, whatever it is. That type of incentive that is unique and recognized, but it is very beneficial to the conduct of that judge's work. I mean, it's not going and goofing off, but studying what best practices are around the country and things of this nature that add to the feeling of really, ``I'm on my game. I'm doing a great job. And I'm being supported by a court system in a city that values it.'' And I think all of those things will come into play as really strong incentives. Mrs. Morella. Are you finding some of these practices are being employed in different parts of the country? Mr. Harlan. I don't believe our report specifically found that. These are ideas that were decided as we needed incentives. If we were in your position, which ones would we be considering? And then that's what we believe. But let me, if I may, ask one of my associates here today who is really working the vineyard on this--Priscilla, what's the answer to that question? Mrs. Morella. She was nodding her head affirmatively. Mr. Harlan. She said there are some pieces of information within our research that would focus on this. Mrs. Morella. It might be very helpful for us---- Mr. Harlan. We will. Mrs. Morella [continuing]. If you could get that to us, too. Mr. Harlan. We will be happy to. 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I'd like to ask Ms. McKinney then, as an attorney, herself, whether she sees that there would be a need for further enhancement of the status of Family Court judges. Ms. McKinney. Well, I think that increasing the quality and giving more resources to the Family Court, as a whole, would be a great incentive to drawing Family Court judges into it. The judges right now, the way the system is set up, simply don't have the kind of support and resources they need to really make the system function. My group has not taken an official position on this, but, in terms of the suggestions by the Council for Court Excellence, I think all of those are excellent suggestions. I also think that there is a big difference between someone signing up for saying, ``Yes, I think I would like to be a Family Court judge,`` and committing to 3 years, versus committing to 5 years. I think the difference in those two commitments could discourage a number of people who would otherwise be excellent Family Court judges from taking that leap. I think it is a huge time commitment, and, while we need people who are willing to do that, you don't want to shrink the pool so small that you exclude a lot of really qualified people from becoming judges. Mr. Wells. If I could add, Mrs. Morella, currently there is no criteria that includes family law practice in selecting judges in D.C. We have over 74,000 members of our local bar, 250 very-qualified attorneys work in child--representing children in abuse and neglect cases. I don't know of one attorney from what we call the ``CCAN Bar''--Council for Child Abuse and Neglect--that has ever been nominated or selected to be a judge in D.C. Court. If you selected people to serve in our court that had experience in this area, it would seem natural that they would choose to serve on this bench. Mrs. Morella. Thank you, Mr. Wells. I notice that they also appear to agree with you, our panelists. Very briefly, Mr. Harlan, because my time has expired. Mr. Harlan. I just want to strongly support that. Mrs. Morella. Yes. Mr. Harlan. In the past several years that I have been looking at the appointment of judges, virtually all of them have come out of the U.S. Attorney's Office, with one or two exceptions, and that may not be a good training ground for family judges. Mrs. Morella. Thank you, Mr. Harlan. That is a good point. Ms. Norton. Ms. Norton. I suppose I should move on to Ms. McKinney. Mr. Wells has said the judges aren't appointed from family law practice. One of the things we would certainly hope is that the new pool of judges would include judges from family law practice who would come and say, ``I want to be on this court,'' and who would be appointed from outside, who would be appointed to the court. So I'd like to ask you, as a member of the Family Court Bar, do you believe the 3 year or the 5 year or any other number of years would encourage or discourage members of the Family Court Bar from applying or encourage them to apply to be on the court? Ms. McKinney. Well, based on my conversations with many of my colleagues over the past couple of months, I would say that having a 3-year extendable term would encourage a lot of people to apply. I think if you make it a 5-year term there are going to be a number of people who are discouraged by that. And I would point out that it's not something that is within our control. Just a month ago three names went over to the President to be selected to fill one judge position in Superior Court. Two of the three had family law experience. The one who was selected to take the judge's position did not. So it is a---- Ms. Norton. So it's not true that D.C. hasn't put forward people without---- Ms. McKinney. That's correct. Ms. Norton. Let's make that clear. Ms. McKinney. That's correct. Ms. Norton. If we had the right to choose our own judges, we would now have judges on the Family Court who had Family Court experience. It's not a big jump. She just testified that three names were sent to the President of the United States and he chose, what, the U.S. Attorney? Ms. McKinney. Yes. Ms. Norton. To be the court--I mean, I don't think that's a stretch at all. One of the reasons why I feel so uncomfortable involved in this process is I don't know what I'm talking about. My job is to be a Member of Congress. I spend most of my time on that and national matters. That's why I find your testimony so--but I must say, if these are people who have been in Family Court practice, why would they need--why wouldn't they come forward with 3 rather than 5 years experience? Ms. McKinney. Well, I think you have to look at the difference between being a family lawyer and being a Family Court judge. As a family lawyer, I have some ability to control my case load. I have some ability to say, ``I'm overloaded. I can't take this really difficult, challenging case right now. I need to send it to one of my colleagues.'' You don't have that as a judge. The vast majority of our cases as practitioners settle, and it is getting these cases and helping these people put their lives back together and mostly settling the cases that is the rewarding piece of my job. If I then go and become a family court judge, all I see are the cases that can't settle, whether it is because somebody is mentally ill or somebody is drug addicted or there are just these endemic problems within the family that make them virtually impossible to solve, and as a judge that's all I see every single day. That's very different from what I do right now. Ms. Norton. Well, I don't know. I don't know. Nobody has done a survey to tell me what it is across the country. We do look within our region, and there has been some testimony that it is less than 3 years in the region. I tell you the only thing that concerns me--I come to this an atabula rosa. I know very little about family law and I know very little about abused children in our city. I see very few of them. I see very few mothers on crack. They don't come to the meetings. They don't come to the town meetings. What does bother me is this case load. What does bother me is 1,500 coming in every year. That doesn't tell me how many are in the system. And what I can relate to personally without knowing what it is like to sit day and day is the emotional--not the physical taxing. I'm used to hard work. Lawyers are used to hard work. But the notion that I'm playing God up here bothers me--that she's 16 years old, she's still on crack, maybe she'll be off by 18, maybe I should wait, but maybe the child gets to be 4 years old and it's all over. I am bothered by the talmudic decisions that have to be made. And, while we all act as if this is somehow, you know, just dealing with cases, unlike the Sister, I don't have that sense that what I'm doing is already--is always what God would want me to do. Therefore, I do think that the notion that these are emotionally taxing cases where people are deciding decisions not for the guilty or the innocent, as with somebody who has committed a crime, or as two grown-up people who want a divorce, but two people who may look like they are equal in every sense except that one needs a chance and the other probably will want to be with a parent ultimately if that parent had been given a chance. So I don't know, and I don't pretend to know yet what the answer is. I do want to lay out what concerns me and why I can't approach these issues with this sense of rightness the way I do a civil rights case or the way I do an environmental case. I would like your notion about--I'd like to ask about these magistrates and commissioners, because here the court comes and says, ``Oh, I'll make everybody a magistrate.'' Now, that's going to cost money, and therefore you won't find me hopping on board just to make everybody a magistrate. As I understand it, the commissioner has to have the consent of the parties to enter a final order, whereas a magistrate is a quasi-judge, in effect, and can issue orders without the consent of the parties. Now, the only thing that interests me about this is that I want this to happen to the Family Court. Now, why should I want it to happen in the whole court? And I understand that at least some of you have testified that we should have magistrates in the whole court. I want to know functionally why it is important that everybody have the right to issue orders when our concern here is with family matters, alone. Ms. McKinney. Well, I think what I would say to that, Congresswoman, is that you are talking about an issue of court resources, and if we need, for example, more magistrates in the Family Court, you don't want the chief judge to be prevented from pulling from the already-experienced hearing commissioners into the Family Division. As it is set up right now, if we had Family Court magistrates and then hearing commissioners, if we needed more magistrates we'd have to go through the process of appointing them, or if we had an emergency and a magistrate was ill and out for several months, you couldn't then just pull someone from civil or one of the other dockets and move them into that magistrate's position, whereas if all of the, say, less-than- judicial level--less-than-judge level judicial officers were the same characterization, you could move them in and out. But there's one other thing I'd like to say about the judicial burnout, just to give you an example of how this works. There is a judge in Montgomery County, where I also practice, who spent--she actually helped set up the Family Division of the Montgomery County Circuit Court and has presided over it for 3 years. She was a family lawyer, she was a family magistrate for many years, and then a District Court judge. She spent 3 years in the Family Division of Montgomery County Circuit Court. And I know her well. She's a wonderful judge and advocate for children and families. But she says, ``I need a break.'' And she'll go out of the Family Division and she'll sit somewhere else for a couple of years, and then she'll come back and she'll bring with her renewed energy, more experience, new ideas, and a fresh perspective, and that is something that the Superior Court really does right is bringing in people. We really do benefit from the fresh perspective and from the experience that the judges have on the other dockets, and that's something that I'd like the Congress to keep in mind when they're debating this legislation. Ms. Norton. Thank you, Madam Chair. Mrs. Morella. Mr. DeLay, pleased to recognize you. And thank you for sticking with this hearing all day. Mr. DeLay. Thank you, Madam Chair. I find this fascinating. First of all, Madam Chair, I would like to point out before this hearing ends I'd like to thank Mr. Bob Gutman, who is a private child advocate who has tirelessly promoted the establishment of the Family Court in the District for many, many years and has sat also through this entire hearing, and probably has got sores on his tongue from biting his tongue so many times during this hearing. I wanted to point out to the Chair and to this committee that in this hearing it is amazing to me that only the lawyers and the judges and those connected to the Bar are supporting the Superior Court's position. Every 1 of the child advocates groups, the whole list here in your Consortium--21 different organizations--support the draft that we are proposing here. It is interesting, Ms. McKinney, how did you come up with the number of years three? Ms. McKinney. Well, I think if you look at some other jurisdictions--if you look at Chicago, they have 2 years. Montgomery County has 18 months. Baltimore has 1 year. P.G. County has 2 years. I think throughout the country it varies wildly, and we---- Mr. DeLay. Why did you pick three? Ms. McKinney. Well, we discussed it amongst the lawyers in our group, and I talked to many, many of my colleagues, and we did talk to judges in various jurisdictions, because our interest is in having judges who are not burned out, who are not desensitized. And I will say that desensitization is almost a bigger problem than burnout. Judges who see too many of these cases start to apply a cookie-cutter approach to all of them, and that's not what is in our clients' best interest. We want judges who can look at every single case as a new and fresh item. Mr. DeLay. I'll bet Mr. Harlan wouldn't even agree with that because he's gone to other parts of the country and probably hasn't found that, or he wouldn't have written the best practices that he wrote. And what your position is is the vast majority of this country. There are only five States that have 3 years or less. There are 15 States that have 6 years or less. There are two States that have 12 years or less. And there are three States that have life. And you don't find the burnout that you describe in those States. Ms. McKinney. But I think you have to be careful about comparing apples to oranges. D.C. is one of only five that has a Family Division that has a comprehensive jurisdiction. For example, in Virginia they have the Juvenile and Domestic Relations Court. It is a lower court. Anything there can be appealed to the Circuit Court. And when it goes to the Circuit Court it goes to one of--whatever judge is up. All the divorces in Virginia go to whatever judge is up. There's no specialization in Virginia. So I think you have to be careful when you're citing statistics to make sure you're comparing apples to apples. Mr. DeLay. I am comparing apples to apples, ma'am, because I have looked at the entire Nation and you've got a judge sitting right over there that's sitting on the bench 12 years and he's not burned out. He's quite the activist. And when you say that judges are judges and not social workers, you make my case. The problem is we have a system in the Superior Court of D.C. to have judges that are not activists for the interests of these children, and you picked--I think you picked 3 years because it was your judge's proposal, their proposal, and that is why you are supporting it, because you are supporting the judges in the Superior Court. Is that not true? Ms. McKinney. Well, I think what I would say is that our interest as the representatives of the people who are going to be affected by this legislation happen to coincide with the court on a number of these issues. I think they would be the first to tell you that we have been a tremendous thorn in their side over the years. So I'm sure they would be amused to hear that, your characterization. But I have to disagree with your characterization of how the judges in Superior Court are. It simply is not the case that they aren't activists trying to do what is best for these children. They are, but they are faced with daunting limitations. When you have, for example, the mother who refuses to go for her forensic examination, well, that means the judge has a lot less information to make decisions on. The judge can't--it makes no sense for the judge to order someone to--the marshals to take that mother and drag her to a forensic exam. It simply makes no sense. Mr. DeLay. Makes no sense for the judge to enforce the law in his order? Ms. McKinney. It's not that--no. In terms of what the result will be, forcing someone to go through a psychological examination is not going to give the court any results that are useful. That's my point. Mr. DeLay. You and I just have a fundamental disagreement in what motivates people, because, quite frankly, your characterization that people will sign up for 3 years but they won't sign up for 5 makes no sense whatsoever, because if you truly want to be a family law judge and you come from a pool that is made less--that is elevated, quite frankly, in the Superior Court--because right now you say that three applicants and the U.S. attorney was picked from two family law because you have no pool. Nobody wants--that is the system as it exists now, and we're trying to change that system to be an incentive for people to carry out a career in family law. You can't carry out that career right now, and naturally you don't have--even the President knows anything about reaching into a pool and trying to entice family law lawyers to be judges. Currently, you are enticing any lawyer to be part of a Superior Court, and the lawyer might be assigned to Family Court and feel oppressed, if you will, by the assignment to serve on a Family Court bench. But if the lawyer is truly a dedicated person that wants to deal with the family law, he/she can be recruited, and, frankly, I would want, if I were a lawyer, I would want the assurance that I'd have at least 5 years on the Family Court Bench with options to continue further. Ms. McKinney. Well, I think, though, that you have to look at that example that I just gave you. No one can question the dedication of this Montgomery County judge to children and families. But what she is saying is after 3 years, ``I need a break.'' And we all know that. The members of the Bar all know how difficult it is. We are the ones who sit in D.C. Superior Court day after day and see what is going on. We know how tough it is. So we know that you have to give people an opportunity to come onto the court and know that for 3 years they will be committed and they will be sitting there, and if at the end of 3 years they're not tired, they're not fatigued, they will stay. And we hope that it will be the case that, because the resources are there and the court is reformed, that you'll find a lot of people who do stay for 10 and 15 years. Mr. DeLay. Well, that's one person you're pointing out versus all the hundreds of Family Court judges across this country that don't feel that way, and thousands, probably. It just doesn't fit. And I don't know what that judge's personal problems were, and I won't get into it--but, Sister Murphy, could you tell me--you mentioned it in your testimony--the problems we have with the Interstate Compact that you mentioned in your testimony? Sister Murphy. Well, the Interstate Compact papers are a real thorn in our side. For one thing, we are an emergency placement for children. The State of Maryland recently decided that though they told us a year ago we did not have to be involved in this because it was almost impossible, has changed their tune, so now we are facing that. The thing that upsets us the most is that children who had been cleared many times to be adopted or go into foster care in a different State, can wait 4 to 6 months for the Interstate Compact papers, which delays placement for those children that much longer. And that is probably the biggest thing. We have a Metro system that covers a metropolitan area. Nobody questions that. We have other systems in the metropolitan area and nobody questions it. Why can't children be placed back and forth in at least that metropolitan area-- D.C., Maryland, and Virginia? We're working for the same thing, we should cut down some of these problems to make things flow more smoothly for children. I sit here and listen to everybody talking about burnout, but I have been watching children and mothers and families being destroyed throughout the 40 years that I have been working in this business---- Mr. DeLay. Are you burned out? Sister Murphy [continuing]. I have never felt burnout. I feel anger and other things, but I have never felt burnout. So if we have a judge who feels burned out from helping kids, then I say he or she ought to just get out of the whole system. But it just upsets me to no end to think that we're sitting here worrying about judges' burnout when children are dying every year. Read the Washington Post. We have children that float back into St. Ann's for the second and third time after more abuse. I'm sick of the whole mess, truthfully. Mr. DeLay. I don't know that I can say it better than that, Madam Chair. I want to come back to this 3-year--Mr. Harlan, you wrote a very good paper and your testimony is excellent. I appreciate it. But I'm very curious, because I know what has been going on in this town for the last couple of months, why you picked 3 years. Did someone call you and advocate 3 years? Mr. Harlan. No, they did not. We picked a minimum of 3 years. Mr. DeLay. Yes. Mr. Harlan. I think our testimony would focus on the word ``minimum,'' as well. If you decided or if the courts decided they wished to adopt a 5-year program, we'd say that would be fine. We just don't believe anything shorter than 3 years will work, and that's the way we approached it. Right now it is quite a bit shorter. Three years is a huge improvement, you know. It may be that we need to take that kind of step to make the step toward the progress we want to achieve and see how it goes, but we did emphasize a minimum of 3 years. Mr. DeLay. OK. I don't want to take the chairman's time any longer. I have plenty more, but that's fine. That's fine. Mrs. Morella. I would be satisfied with a 4-year term and for Members of Congress. [Laughter.] I thank you all for your testimony, but you have been in social work, I think, Mr. Wells, for about 6 years, and have you--I mean, Sister Josephine has not experienced burnout but has been angered, but how about you after 6 years as social work. Mr. Wells. I was a child protection social worker for 6 years, and that's true, but part of what motivated me to move to where I am now is seeing what was happening in our child welfare system, and, in particular, the kind of things that I hope will motivate a judge that focuses on these cases will see that when you have repeated cases that--I know Sister Josephine sees children that come into her facility where she wants to hang on to them for a little while, heal them, and help see that they can get along their way, but she gets very frustrated and angry if they start growing up in her facility. Often our court is the safety net. It's the bottom line. Someone has to catch these children. And if you send these cases around the courthouse or if you don't pick up the trends, the children are backing up at St. Ann's and they're beginning to grow up in that 50-bed institution, then that safety net does not exist. And with the turnover in social workers, with the turnover in the other parts of the system, it is the judges that pick up those patterns. We've had Judge Arthur Burnet on our adoption calendar for 3, 4 years. It used to be the adoption calendar went every 3 months to a different judge and we were doing between 23 and 40 adoptions a year of children out of foster care. Judge Arthur Burnet has been on this for, I guess, going on 4 years, and now we are doing less--almost 300 adoptions a year. And I hope I said earlier that we are doing less than 60 per year. So that it's not hypothetical, the impact it has when a judge provides a consistent application of the law and becomes creative, becomes an advocate, and sees that when children are getting stuck in the system, to help break through those logjams. We need judges as advocate partners in being able to reform the child welfare system, and when they move off the bench we lose them. Mrs. Morella. Yes. And, Sister Josephine you did give us a list of the frustrations that you face with these youngsters day after day. I don't know whether you want to prioritize what the No. 1 concern is that you have, but I notice that among the ones that you listed they deal with social workers, they deal with lawyers, they deal with kind of an indifference again to the importance of the child who is at the bottom of it. But if you would give us what you consider to be the most important thing that we should look at in terms of reform it would be helpful. Sister Murphy. Well, I personally feel that we should look at, as we always say, the best interest of the child. Certainly I think we all contribute to the problems of children, and I think we have to work together to solve some of the problems of children in the courts and everywhere else. I think all of the folks connected are important--the social worker, the lawyer, the judges, those of us who work with them in care, the foster parents--and we have to listen to what is right for the child. It always seems to me that in many of these areas we get taken up with what is best for other people. In the legal system many times with our children at St. Ann's decisions and based on what is best for the mother. I had a social worker present in one case to discharge an infant baby. The mother comes in and you know she's high on drugs, but they're still going to release this baby? Yes, they're going to release this baby, and I realize if they don't, mother will lose her housing? I mean, those are the kinds of things and it's always the children who get lost in it. I fail to understand why it is so impossible for judges to come to grips with terminating parental rights. They don't think about those children who are out there suffering the abuse over and over again. They don't think of the children who are getting older and older in the system and that nobody is going to want to adopt them because they act out so much. We have so many children who act out sexually at St. Ann's who nobody wants to adopt because they have been sexually molested for so many years. We have girls in our home at St. Ann's--one child who is 17 years old had been a paid prostitute from age 6 to support her mother's drug habit. So why can't a judge make a decision to determine parental rights if this mother has been on drugs for umpteen years. As I said, this one mother had been in 19 drug treatment programs. They were going to return this baby to her. Why can't the courts decide to terminate parental rights? That is probably one of my most frustrating things. That's why I fought for that law to be passed, which hasn't done much good. It is true the adoptions have increased, and I am grateful for that, but I still don't think they are terminating parental rights quickly enough. I don't think they are looking at the reasons that law gave why you don't even have to bother about waiting. You could terminate parental rights almost on the spot. Children are murdered, and yet they allow more children in the house. We can have three children badly abused from a family, but if mother has another baby, she keeps that baby. The law says she can keep it until she does something to it. So everybody sits back and waits until it happens. A child came in the other week with a fractured skull, another one with a broken wrist. So just wait until they do something harmful to the child and then they place them. Those are the frustrating points to me. Mrs. Morella. Do they ask for your opinion or do they give you an opportunity, or is it just, ``We automatically want it returned to the mother because she will lose her check,'' or we think that this is ultimately what would happen? Sister Murphy. That can be one of the reasons. Mrs. Morella. But, I mean, do they consult with you? Do they ask you? Do they say---- Sister Murphy. No. We have at times written to the judges, and I have even gone down and testified. On one occasion two of us--two of the Sisters--went down with the social worker, who was feeling the way we were, and spoke to that judge. We pointed out all the things that had happened to these children in their home, but the child was released back to that family. I think in my testimony I said we had the lawyer come out because I felt so strongly about that child; 2 days later, that child went home. And the only thing you can get from the Social Service Department is, ``Well, it's a court order. Anything that is a court order you have to obey.'' So it is very frustrating. Mrs. Morella. Thank you for the work that you do, too, day in and day out. Ms. Norton. Ms. Norton. Thank you very much. Well, I agree with you, Sister Josephine, about essentially erring on the side of the child, as painful as that is, rather than keep a child, and for a very long time, despite the notion of best interest of the child, it seems--it appears that it is very hard to believe, especially since some of these mothers are very young, that you ought to make that decision. It's very reluctantly that I have come to the conclusion that we really have no choice now. We are paying for erring on the side of the parent, it seems. There's somebody standing before you that can invoke your pity and you see all the hope there. I do agree with you. I think the floating back and forth goes a lot beyond the courts. I must say it now, and I hope everybody hears me: we have been talking about the court. That floating back and forth has much more to do with Child and Family Services than it has to do with the court. When the court finally has to get in it again, it is, of course, because the mission of the Child and Family Services to provide the services if the child is put back--for example, Brianna Blackman. This child never should have been put back in the first place, but as we did the investigation of that case we found that the mother appears to have been borderline retarded, had never been provided the services, herself, and had found herself somebody to live with. This mother might have been completely benign. It is alleged that the murder was done by somebody she was living with. But Child and Family Services never took this borderline retarded mother, who might, living with somebody else, have been able to take care of a child if there was somebody else there. So I must say we can talk about this court all we want to, but we are handing--we are spending money on the court and it is overdue. The District is about to spend a great deal more money on Family and Child Services, but what it is getting back has more to do with the problems you have raised than anything we could possibly do with this court, because in many ways the court is forced--we believe it is forced into what it is doing because Child and Family Services is not going to provide-- can't provide an alternative parent, can't find another foster home, and unless they, in fact, essentially accomplish revolutionary change, I can't believe that we are going to see much difference, even given the time we have spent on the court. I don't even want to go through the burnout. All of that is such conjecture about how many years. My good friend who has had to leave--and he stayed so long he deserves all of our gratitude--who is so dug into the number of years is a wiser man than I am a wise woman. All I'm guided by, I'm guided by one thing, one thing. I don't know about the judges. I haven't talked to whether they get burned out. I know who do not stay on the job--social workers, people who have gone to school, studied, know full well when they take this job they are dealing with the most troubled people in the society come and they go, and they go so fast that it makes your head spin. And that's the only evidence I know, because we have had before us Child and Family Services, because I got a bill passed through here that required any receivership to practice best practices, and we got the figures in the record about the turnover in social workers. So maybe the judges are iron men and iron women and they can stay in there for as long as you want them to, but I am very worried about taking all discretion from people and deciding that if we just tell them in iron numbers what to do it will all come out in the wash. That is not my experience. As for--and I have to say on the record the notion that only lawyers want it to be 3 years and all the people who really care about children want it to be 5 years, I just need to say--and I'm sorry Mr. DeLay isn't here--I began--he began with a very fixed notion, had to be 15 years, had to bargain him down, based only on the numbers. I began saying, ``I don't know.'' And I still don't know. But I think it is wrong to say that only people who spend their time as lawyers would think that there is a minimum number that's less than 5 years. That is wrong. Nobody deserves that here and I will not tolerate it. And just let me put on the record who also said 3 years--the testimony of the Council of the District of Columbia, who knows our children better than anybody else, said 3 years. The Mayor said 3 years. And none of them were dug in so they said, ``It must be 3.'' They just said in their sense is that's right. You know what? That's only my sense. I don't know if it is right. I do know that I despite dogmatism, particularly when it comes to dealing with children and families, and especially children and families which are not like your children and families because they're not like my children and families. They're a lot more troubled than any children and families I run up against. So I'm going to approach this with great care. Now, I have a question that I just want to be clear, because it is my last question for Mr. Harlan, when he talks about the minimum numbers of judges and he talks about flexibility. Normally I'm for flexibility. What we're trying to do here is to close up some of the holes. For example, the reason we say ``one judge/one family'' is we don't want somebody to decide, and the hole gets bigger and bigger, and then we find that one judge/one family isn't there at all any more. In that regard, for example, I have not heard answered here--I think a question was put on whether or not, at least for purposes of abiding by the child and family--I'm sorry, Adoption and Safe Family Services Act, if somebody, a family was close to the goal of permanency, as mandated by that act, perhaps at least then the judge ought to be able to stay with the child. I just want to make sure we don't have unintended consequences written into the act when we know better. I was very concerned about the things that the judge--his examples. And I need to have answers to that, because he had some examples that didn't even go to permanency--went to where children may not ever be permanently, where somebody may be suicidal, for example. I don't want to take responsibility for saying, ``The thing says there are no exceptions to one family/ one judge.'' That is the one principle that we all agree upon, but I am very reluctant to say that if there is a child or family that nobody has been able to deal with but you are keeping them alive, you wouldn't dare change judge and say, ``I'm sorry, my 3 years are up. This is a nice judge. I will make sure that I brief the judge.'' I wouldn't take the responsibility to somebody who is despondent over that, so I'm a little worried about the inflexibility that God is sitting up here and God knows what to do and he is telling you all what to do and it is going to work out this way, just trust in me. Don't trust in me here, because I'm not that sure. And so I am concerned about the exceptions. I won't--you know, I won't do the law school hypothetical that is in me on each of you, but I will say to you I do not believe that Judge King's examples were answered. Yet, what I think we have to do is to keep from--we have to keep from developing a loophole. We have to have such a strict standard that the judge's discretion--and I think in the bill he has none now, does he? I see you are indicating no, that he has no discretion. I am not--at the moment I am not willing to take responsibility for that. I'm not willing to say that permanency is not a reason to say, ``Look, we've got 2 more months to go. You know more than anybody else. It would take me at least that long to even learn what that case is about, so I'm not willing to be that inflexible.'' And I'm not willing to say that if we have a child we don't have any--that the child is sent back here time and time again, and neither St. Ann's nor anybody else has been able to do anything with this child, but the child somehow relates to this judge, that judge shouldn't be an exception. I just--I mean, we don't do that anywhere in the judicial system, and I'm very reluctant. What I need your help on is, if any of you feel my reluctance that an ironclad rule like that might produce an unintended consequence, you can help us by suggesting, if any notion of exception is to be written into the law, how to make it so tight that there would simply not be discretion except in the most extraordinary circumstances. I would appreciate your help on that. I recognize that's almost a drafting notion, and unless somebody can suggest language to me now, I would appreciate any thoughts you would have on that. And I would appreciate any thoughts you could give me on the notions that Judge King laid out, the examples he laid out, and I would be willing to submit them to you to ask you then what would you do in these circumstances. Do you think that such a person might go, whether 5 years or 3 years, should leave the judge? After all, a judge who has been there, let us say, for 5 years could have gotten the case last month, could have gotten the case last year, could have gotten the case 6 months ago, or could have had it for 5 years. I mean, if we want to sit down and really get analytical about this, I can spin your head. Instead of doing that, instead of trying to think of each and every circumstance that could possibly appear before a judge, we need to have language that, to the best of our human capacity, would allow us to maintain rigidly one person/one case without doing harm because we, ourselves, have been all knowing. On minimum number of magistrates and judges, do I take your testimony at page 4, Mr. Harlan, because you say--you strongly suggest that the appropriate level of judicial manpower be set on an annual basis by the judge. Do you mean over and above the minimum number of Family Court judges, because you suggest that if the Family Court case load drops--you are an optimist, Mr. Harlan--drops, that other divisions might--in a real sense, I think that's what we are trying to avoid, taking from the Family Court the number of judges and putting them some place else on the theory that this is such an important area of the law that it simply needs to have the same number of judges there always, and, if anything, may need more judges. Can you envision the notion that--I mean, let me put it to you this way: if the Family Court case load dropped, you could then handle Family Court cases more quickly. Wouldn't it be better to do that than to take those judges and use them elsewhere? Mr. Harlan. Quite frankly, the determination of how many Family Court judges is required on an immediate, in the first step, is what the 90-day plan is all about. Now---- Ms. Norton. So we're going to have to fund judges, you see, for this. Mr. Harlan. I understand. I understand. But, looking down the road, when the chief judge comes before this committee and the Appropriations Committee to talk about the court's funding, it would seem to us that the chief judge, with the goal of adhering to the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997 as far as the pace of process here, that the chief judge would be in the best position to know how many Family Court judges are required to achieve the goal. Looking down the road, you know, if the system gets better, fewer children are entering the system because let's assume that there's some remedy to the crack cocaine epidemic that caused the big spike that he described. I have no idea what will happen in the future, but hopefully things might get better and we might not need as many Family Court judges going forward. All we're saying is that the chief operating officer of that court should have the ability to determine what that need is, translate that need into the number of judges required, and be subject to your oversight and subject to the appropriations process funding. That's all we're saying. Ms. Norton. Does that include more judges? Mr. Harlan. Pardon me? Ms. Norton. Does that include more judges? Mr. Harlan. Sure. Of course. If it gets worse, they would need more judges, whatever the situation is. Ms. Norton. Well, how do we determine--this bill has to be passed before the appropriations if we are to really do our job, and we will need more judges to make this anything but a joke. Mr. Harlan. Undoubtedly that's true at this time, but rather than having the cases spread out, they will be concentrated. That means pulled out of the other, let's say, 59 or 70 judges. Let's say there are 19 judges going to the Family Court. There will be some load shifting that way that has to be accounted for, so that non-family court judges that are currently hearing child abuse cases are no longer going to hear them. There can be fewer judges needed to handle the civil and criminal processes. So, the workload balancing is one of the needs to be studied each year. It changes. That's all we're saying. I mean, you've got a 90-day program for him to come up with what he needs to have as far as the appropriation goes for this first period of time. That should be subject to review each year on an annual oversight basis. Ms. Norton. Thank you. Thank you very much, Madam Chair. Mrs. Morella. I want to thank you all. As Sister Josephine said, the bottom line is caring for these children. And I would also appreciate--the subcommittee would appreciate the language that you might be able to craft that would take care of that concept. We will be submitting some questions to you, also, and hope that you will be able to answer them so that we can come to grips with this. I notice that even those who thought 3 years would be appropriate, that it did say ``minimum,'' as Mr. Harlan had stated. And so what we are looking for is people who have continuity--who will give continuity to it and reflect the concerns and caring. I want to thank all of you for being here all afternoon, for your commitment to this project, and hope that you will continue to work with us so we can come up with something that's going to work. Thank you all very much. Our subcommittee is now adjourned. 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