<DOC>
[110 Senate Hearings]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access]
[DOCID: f:41446.wais]
S. Hrg. 110-524
NOMINATION OF STEVEN H. MURDOCK
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON
HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
ON THE
NOMINATION OF STEVEN H. MURDOCK TO BE DIRECTOR OF THE CENSUS, U.S.
DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
__________
DECEMBER 18, 2007
__________
Available via http://www.gpoaccess.gov/congress/index.html
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COMMITTEE ON HOMELAND SECURITY AND GOVERNMENTAL AFFAIRS
JOSEPH I. LIEBERMAN, Connecticut, Chairman
CARL LEVIN, Michigan SUSAN M. COLLINS, Maine
DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii TED STEVENS, Alaska
THOMAS R. CARPER, Delaware GEORGE V. VOINOVICH, Ohio
MARK L. PRYOR, Arkansas NORM COLEMAN, Minnesota
MARY L. LANDRIEU, Louisiana TOM COBURN, Oklahoma
BARACK OBAMA, Illinois PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico
CLAIRE McCASKILL, Missouri JOHN WARNER, Virginia
JON TESTER, Montana JOHN E. SUNUNU, New Hampshire
Michael L. Alexander, Staff Director
Kristine V. Lam Research Assistant
John P. Kilvington, Staff Director, Subcommittee on Federal Financial
Management, Government Information, Federal Services, and International
Security
Brandon L. Milhorn, Minority Staff Director and Chief Counsel
Jennifer L. Tarr, Minority Counsel
J. Kathryn French, Minority Staff Director, Subcommittee on Federal
Financial Management, Government Information, Federal Services, and
International Security
Trina Driessnack Tyrer, Chief Clerk
C O N T E N T S
------
Opening statements:
Page
Senator Carper............................................... 1
Senator Collins.............................................. 3
WITNESSES
Tuesday, December 18, 2007
Hon. Kay Bailey Hutchinson, a U.S. Senator from the State of
Texas.......................................................... 1
Steven H. Murdock to be Director, U.S. Census Bureau, U.S.
Department of Commerce......................................... 5
Alphabetical List of Witnesses
Hutchinson, Hon. Kay Bailey:
Testimony.................................................... 1
Murdock, Steven H.:
Testimony.................................................... 5
Prepared statement........................................... 19
Biographical and professional information.................... 21
Responses to pre-hearing questions........................... 31
Letter from U.S. Office of Government Ethics................. 64
Responses to post-hearing questions.......................... 65
APPENDIX
Representative William Lacy Clay, prepared statement............. 72
NOMINATION OF STEVEN H. MURDOCK
----------
TUESDAY, DECEMBER 18, 2007
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Homeland Security
and Governmental Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The Committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:30 p.m., in
Room SD-342, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Thomas R.
Carper, presiding.
Present: Senators Carper and Collins.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR CARPER
Senator Carper. The Committee will come to order. I am
pleased to be here with two of my colleagues: Senator Collins,
Ranking Member of the full Committee, and Senator Kay Bailey
Hutchison, senior Senator from Texas, who I think will be here
to introduce our nominee, Mr. Murdock, to be Director of the
U.S. Census Bureau. And without further ado, I think I would
like to turn to Senator Hutchison to introduce Dr. Murdock to
this Committee.
Senator Hutchison, welcome. It is good to see you.
TESTIMONY OF HON. KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF TEXAS
Senator Hutchison. Well, thank you, Senator Carper, Senator
Hol--Collins, for----
Senator Carper. Did you say ``Hollings''?
Senator Hutchison. No. I meant ``Collins''--for having the
hearing. We really do appreciate it. She does not resemble
Senator Hollings. [Laughter.]
Senator Carper. No, she does not.
Senator Hutchison. But I am really pleased that you are
having this hearing because, of course, this is a very
important job that looks for and records the demographic
changes in our country. And I am pleased to recommend my fellow
Texan, our State's first demographer, Dr. Steve Murdock, who is
being nominated for Director of the U.S. Census Bureau.
Dr. Murdock grew up on a farm in rural North Dakota, the
youngest of three children. His early education was North
Dakota State University, with an undergraduate degree in
sociology, and his first class in graduate school at the
University of Kentucky changed everything for him. After the
first demography course, he had found his calling. He went on
to graduate from the University of Kentucky with a Ph.D. in
demography and sociology. He is the author of 12 books, more
than 150 articles and technical reports on the implications of
current and future demographic and socioeconomic change.
He holds the Lutcher Brown Distinguished Chair in
Demography and Organizational Studies at the University of
Texas at San Antonio. He was named one of the 50 most
influential Texans by Texas Business Magazine in 1997. He is a
member of several professional associations, including the
Population Association of America.
He is also the recipient of numerous awards and honors,
including the Faculty Distinguished Achievement Award in
Research from Texas A&M, the Excellence in Research Award from
the Rural Sociological Society, and a Distinguished Alum Award
from the Department of Sociology at the University of Kentucky.
He is also a member of Phi Beta Kappa.
I am honored to introduce him to serve as Director of the
U.S. Census Bureau, and I hope that the Committee will expedite
his confirmation so that he can get to work for the next
census.
Senator Carper. Senator Hutchison, thank you very much. I
know you have got a lot on your schedule today, and we thank
you for being here. We are going to have our opening
statements, Senator Hutchison, and then I will administer an
oath to Dr. Murdock and ask him under oath if all those nice
things you said about him are true. [Laughter.]
So we will find out. Again, thank you so much.
Senator Hutchison. Thank you very much.
Senator Carper. Great to see you.
I am going to give a fairly brief opening statement, and
then I will yield to Senator Collins for whatever she would
like to add or take away. And if others show up before it is
time to swear our witness in, then they can give an opening
statement as well, or later when they arrive.
Dr. Murdock, your nomination comes at a crucial time for
the Census Bureau, as we decided when you were good enough to
visit me in my office a month or two ago. While the agency is
not among the largest in our Federal Government, the tasks it
is responsible for, and particularly the decennial census, are
among the most important things that we do as a Nation. In
fact, I believe the decennial census is one of the few things
that the Constitution actually requires us to do as a Nation. A
decennial census is a massive undertaking, too.
Since I took over as Chairman of the Subcommittee with
oversight over the Census Bureau, I have been struck by the
complexity of the undertaking and by the amount of staff and
resources needed to get the job done. There is probably nothing
out there that compares with it except maybe mail delivery
during the holiday season or maybe a military campaign the
likes of which we are staging in several places around the
world.
Many of my colleagues and probably most Americans may not
be aware that the Census Bureau will be working over the coming
months to make its final preparations for the 2010 census.
Procedures and technologies will be tested. Field offices will
be opened. Additional staff will be hired. The final plans for
how the count will be carried out will be drawn up. It is
vitally important then that we get a strong management team in
place as soon as possible, and I am pleased we are able to have
this hearing, and hopefully to set the stage for getting you
confirmed before we proceed much further.
The last decennial census cost, I am told, more than $6
billion. I understand that this one is projected to cost almost
twice as much--$11.5 billion. Senator Coburn and I have heard
testimony from GAO and others that this number may be outdated
and that the final bill for the 2010 census is likely to be
even higher. It could be billions of dollars higher if some of
the technology that is being tested now, particularly the
handheld computers that census takers will be using, do not
work as planned or do not work at all.
In addition, the Census Bureau will be under pressure in
2010 to improve the accuracy of the census. During the past
decennials, there has been a sense that a number of groups have
been undercounted. In order to get the best, most accurate
count, the Census Bureau will need to step up efforts to reach
out to those groups that have historically been difficult to
reach.
The effectiveness of a number of government programs and
the fairness of the redistricting process in the House of
Representatives, except in States like Delaware, where we have
only one U.S. Representative, depend on the effectiveness of
these efforts.
So if you are confirmed, Dr. Murdock, you will certainly
have your work cut out for you, and I think you know that.
Management issues and other challenges faced by the Census
Bureau have raised doubts about our ability to conduct an
affordable and accurate 2010 census. I look forward to hearing
how you would use your background--actually, your distinguished
background--and management skills to erase those doubts and to
get the tough work ahead of us done, and done well.
I almost said ``Dr. Coburn.'' I will say ``Dr. Collins.''
Senator Collins, please proceed.
Senator Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Welcome.
OPENING STATEMENT OF SENATOR COLLINS
Senator Collins. Thank you. When Federal marshals rode
through northern Maine during the first Federal census in 1790,
my native county of Aroostook had not yet been established,
much less my home town of Caribou. And the few inhabitants of
the region had little contact with Federal officials, much less
Federal programs. Today, Aroostook County, like every other
part of our country, is directly affected by the many uses of
the data collected by the Census Bureau.
Dr. Steven Murdock, the President's nominee to be the next
Census Director, has wide-ranging and relevant experience. He
has been State demographer of Texas, a distinguished professor,
as the Chairman has mentioned, a data center director, and a
consultant. He will need that experience as well as
determination and managerial skill to tackle the challenges
facing the Census Bureau.
Many of these challenges have been detailed in reports by
the Government Accountability Office and other experts. In
2004, for example, the National Research Council issued a
report from its Panel on Future Census Methods. That panel
endorsed the Census Bureau's overall plans for 2010, but warned
of ``unique risks and challenges'' to be overcome on a tight
schedule. The panel particularly highlighted the use of new
technology.
The panel recommended, among other things, that the Census
Bureau seek funding well in advance of need, exercise better
management of project risks, and promote greater use of the
Internet. A 2004 report by the Inspector General of the
Department of Commerce raised similar concerns and took note of
a ``late start'' on setting up an effective project management
structure.
It is, therefore, disappointing that the GAO's most recent
review of preparations for the 2010 census found that many of
these very same problems persist. For example, the handheld
computing devices that are supposed to be used to record and
transmit data for the 2010 census are a concern. GAO staff
observed field tests this spring and noted ``a number of
performance issues . . . such as slow and inconsistent data
processing.'' One census employee's handheld device took 2
hours to verify 16 addresses at one location in North Carolina.
The Census Bureau must ensure that this technology works
properly to avoid a massive and urgent reversion to paper
forms.
The GAO has also noted that the Census Bureau is making
``extensive use of contractors.'' This Committee is well versed
in the contracting process, having investigated costly debacles
in both domestic and foreign contracts and having approved
comprehensive contracting reform legislation. Added to these
issues is an ever present problem, which the Chairman has
already mentioned, of inaccurate counting, whether it is over-
or undercounting. It is evident that the next Census Director
will have his hands full.
Finally, consider a matter of unexploited potential, and
that is the Internet. Last year, Senator Coburn conducted a
Subcommittee hearing on census costs and technology use. He
noted that while Canada, Australia, and other countries collect
census data via the Internet and while Americans can use it to
file our taxes, the U.S. Census Bureau decided not to develop
an Internet option for 2010. I look forward to hearing the
nominee's views on this matter.
The calendar continues its relentless progress toward April
2010, leaving the Census Bureau with limited time and capacity
to make any major changes in the current plans. I look forward
to exploring the nominee's thoughts on these key challenges and
his recommendations. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Carper. Senator Collins, thank you very much.
I am told Dr. Murdock has filed responses to a biographical
and financial questionnaire, answering pre-hearing questions
submitted by the Committee, and had his financial statements
reviewed by the Office of Government Ethics. Without objection,
this information will be made part of the hearing record, with
the exception of the financial data, which are on file and
available for public inspection in the Committee's offices.
Committee rules require that all witnesses, Dr. Murdock, as
you know, give their testimony under oath, and I am going to
ask you, if you will, at this time to please stand and raise
your right hand and then respond to the question I am about to
ask you. Do you swear that the testimony you are about to give
to the Committee will be the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth, so help you, God?
Mr. Murdock. I do.
Senator Carper. Please be seated.
Dr. Murdock, we will invite you to proceed at this time
with any opening statement you have, and you may want to start
by just commenting on whether or not any of those nice things
that Senator Hutchison said about you were true. Proceed as you
wish. We are happy that you are here. Your entire statement
will be made a part of the record. You can summarize as you
wish.
TESTIMONY OF STEVEN H. MURDOCK,\1\ TO BE DIRECTOR, U.S. CENSUS
BUREAU, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF COMMERCE
Mr. Murdock. Thank you, Senator Carper.
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\1\ The prepared statement of Mr. Murdock appears in the Appendix
on page 19.
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Senator Carper, Ranking Member Collins, Senator Coburn, and
distinguished Members of the Committee, it is a privilege for
me to appear before you today as the nominee for the position
of Director of the U.S. Bureau of the Census in the Department
of Commerce. I am honored that President Bush has nominated me
for this position, and I am also honored by and grateful to
Senator Hutchison for her very kind introduction.
I believe that the Census Bureau is among the best public
data collection, analysis, and dissemination agencies in the
world. It is responsible for the cost-effective collection,
analysis, and reporting of data on the economic, demographic,
and social characteristics of all the Nation's inhabitants,
while ensuring the confidentiality of respondents' personal
data and while maintaining the confidence and cooperation of
the American people.
This is a difficult and complex job. It is particularly
challenging when we are approaching a decennial census that
provides essential data for the operation of our democracy and,
in the case of the 2010 census, when it involves the use of a
number of innovative methods and technologies. These challenges
are also created by the fact that, in addition to the decennial
census, the Census Bureau conducts an extensive array of
surveys and other data collection efforts that are used by
numerous agencies and other organizations, including the
Federal Reserve, the U.S. Treasury, the Council of Economic
Advisers, etc., to measure such critical factors as GDP,
industrial production, producer prices, levels of employment,
etc. Such data are essential for the effective and efficient
operation of private as well as public sector entities across
the Nation.
Although the challenges will become more apparent to me
when and if I am confirmed, several areas are clearly of
critical importance and will be priority areas for me.
The fiscal practices of the Census Bureau must be reviewed
so as to ascertain any potential areas where performance,
efficiency, and accountability might be improved. In
particular, I plan to immediately begin a review of progress on
the major contracts of the Census Bureau relative to the 2010
census to identify areas where there may be potential impacts
on the costs and completeness of the 2010 census.
The 2010 census is the most expensive data collection
effort in the history of U.S. census taking. Taxpayers must
obtain an adequate return on their investment, and the Census
Bureau must continue to implement those management practices
that improve performance and efficiency while ensuring the
completeness of the census.
I will also review and evaluate the practices and
procedures used to ensure the completeness of the 2010 census,
the ACS, and other products from the Census Bureau and to
ensure the confidentiality of respondents' personal
information. The census must be as complete as possible and
must ensure that all persons from all backgrounds are included
in the census. Analysis of the role of the partnership,
communications, and other programs for improving the count,
including the count of traditionally difficult to count groups,
will be included in this examination.
It is also the responsibility of the Census Bureau to
ensure that the personal data of those who respond to its data
collection efforts are protected against all forms of intrusion
and disclosure. The continued monitoring of census programs to
maintain the security of such information is critical.
As noted in my discussions with several of you, I also
believe it is essential that the Census Bureau carefully
consider the options provided for responding to the decennial
census, periodic surveys, and other data collection efforts
and, where feasible and appropriate, provide respondents with a
range of potential means of responding.
I plan to also examine the design and content of data
products. I have spent my career helping users to more
effectively employ census and related data to address their
needs. Census data must be useful to a wide variety of users,
from Congress to professional statisticians, demographers,
marketers, and thousands of governmental jurisdictions, to
members of the public who may use such data to better
understand their community or to assess the feasibility of
starting their own small business.
Procedures for ensuring the usability of census data must
be continually reviewed. This must include an examination of
American Community Survey data for small areas employing multi-
year averages and an examination of Census Bureau estimates
which are used for planning infrastructure and for resource
allocation across the country.
Numerous stakeholders in the census and the public as a
whole must be adequately informed about the importance of
ensuring a complete count in the census and of the need for
their cooperation. Ultimately, the success or failure of a
census, or any other large-scale public data collection effort,
is dependent on public cooperation and participation. The
Director of the Census Bureau must play a key role in promoting
the census to all the people of the United States, and I plan
to participate in all appropriate ways in this important
effort.
If confirmed, these are only some of the many challenges
that I recognize I will face, for the responsibilities of the
Director of the U.S. Bureau of the Census are extensive and
require careful coordination with numerous bodies, among the
most important of which are the members of this Committee and
Congress as a whole. I intend to reinforce a culture of sharing
of appropriate information at the Census Bureau, and if
confirmed, I commit to working with all of you, my colleagues
in the Department of Commerce and the Census Bureau,
stakeholder groups, and other members of the public in ensuring
that the U.S. Bureau of the Census continues to be an
outstanding data collection, management, analysis, and
dissemination agency, continues to be a prudent user of the
public's resources, and an excellent example of commitment to
the best in public service.
Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I
will be happy to answer any questions that you might have.
Senator Carper. Dr. Murdock, thank you for your statement.
As Senator Collins knows, Committee rules require that I
ask you at least three questions, and we will just start off
the questioning with each of those.
Is there anything you are aware of in your background that
might present a conflict of interest with the duties of the
office to which you have been nominated?
Mr. Murdock. No.
Senator Carper. Do you know of anything, personal or
otherwise, that would in any way prevent you from fully and
honorably discharging the responsibilities of the office to
which you have been nominated?
Mr. Murdock. No, I do not.
Senator Carper. Do you agree without reservation to respond
to any reasonable summons to appear and testify before any duly
constituted committee of Congress if you are confirmed?
Mr. Murdock. Yes, I do.
Senator Carper. All right. I think I have a pretty good
understanding of this, having met with you and having reviewed
your bio and your experience and your testimony. But the
decennial census is, as you know, a massive undertaking, and it
is going to require some extraordinary management skills to
pull it off and to do it well.
Just go over for us, if you would, your background, the
aspects of your background that you think particularly well
prepare you for a challenge of this nature. And what role would
you take in ensuring that the decennial operations are meeting
budget and performance goals?
Mr. Murdock. Well, my background in census goes back a
number of decades. I have worked very actively, for example, on
the 1980, 1990, and 2000 census activities in Texas.
Senator Carper. Could you describe those activities for us?
Mr. Murdock. OK. Well, they included--we worked in the
setup and in the distribution of LUCA materials, for example,
in the 2000 census. I have been the Federal-State Cooperative
Program person for estimates and for objections for 20 of those
years. And we have been the State Data Center for Texas for all
of those years.
Now, as a result of that, we have been involved in census
activities in each of those decades, helping with the process
of informing people of the need to respond to the census and
assisting, for example, in the partnership program in 2000 in
terms of identifying persons and areas that required concerted
effort to ensure a better count. We have been involved with the
assessment in a variety of ways of the accuracy and also the
utility of estimates and projections, particularly estimates
made by the Census Bureau. And we have worked in Texas and in
other areas with elected officials in helping them learn to use
and employ census data to answer their needs.
I testify frequently before the Texas Legislature on issues
related to demographics, to the census, and to other materials,
and I have been very heavily involved with the private sector
and public sectors across Texas and other parts of the
Southwest in terms of census issues and census products.
Senator Carper. All right. When I was elected to the U.S.
Senate, I thought this was a job that I was pretty well
prepared to assume. I had been governor of my State for a
while. I had been a Congressman for 10 years. I testified
before the House and the Senate in both of those roles. And I
knew a lot of the folks that were here in the Senate, worked
with them in one capacity or the other. But I found that when I
got here, there was plenty I still needed to learn and,
frankly, I still do.
When you think of what lies ahead for you, if you are
confirmed, what are some areas where you really need to go to
school to better prepare yourself to assume these
responsibilities and to be successful?
Mr. Murdock. Well, I think it is humbling when you look at
a process as complex as the Census Bureau, not only because it
handles what we all know about the decennial census, but
presents and collects data on a large number of enterprises and
activities that are important for the economy as well as for
our democracy. So I find it very humbling.
Clearly, my background is such that I will need to become
much more familiar in a way that I could not become before I am
confirmed, or if I am confirmed, about the budgetary activities
in the census, what is happening in terms of certain programs.
Certainly the concerns you have mentioned, you are not the only
one to mention those concerns to me, nor to appear in the
popular press.
The first thing I need to do is to get a handle on the
decennial census, particularly the contracts that are out
there, where they are, what is happening relative to them, and
to identify what the impacts are on the budgetary issues. In
other words, are we at a projectory that requires that we seek
different funding or a different form of funding, and also to
see what we may need to do in terms of preparing for
alternatives?
So I think the first thing is to look at the budget and to
look at those contracts and to get to know where we stand--
``we'' being the Census Bureau in this case--in each of those
contract areas, and then to begin a very frank assessment of
what we need to do to get from here to that complete census
count, which we all hope to have at the end of 2010.
Senator Carper. All right. Thank you.
As you know, the Census Bureau is hoping to have census
takers following up with non-responders using handheld
computers rather than paper. The hope, I believe, is that these
computers will be more efficient than the old paper-based
system and will cut down on costs that are associated with
supplies and office space. I understand that these computers
are also a key part of the Census Bureau's cost containment
strategy for 2010. However, the computers have not always
worked as well as planned.
In addition, my staff has learned that an outside firm
examining the handheld program has found that, because of poor
project management on the part of the Census Bureau, the
computers may not be a viable option for 2010.
If confirmed, what steps will you take to put this program
back on track? At what point do you think you might need to
pull the plug, for example, on this approach and start making
plans to go back to the old paper-based system that has been
used in the past?
Mr. Murdock. Well, I cannot know, I think, without getting
involved, getting in the census, and looking in detail at
information that I don't now have access to just what the
situation is relative to the handheld or other factors. What I
can commit to you is that I will find out where we stand and
will aggressively pursue the appropriate funding levels that we
need to have a complete census. I cannot say at this point
because I have not been privy to that information, could not be
until I am confirmed, if I am confirmed, what the best stance
will be or what actions we might need to take. But that is a
first priority for me.
Senator Carper. All right. I am going to make a comparison
here, and at first it may not seem to make much sense, but bear
with me and it might.
A lot of times in going around my State or the country, I
run into people who have been married for a long time, and when
I find folks who have been married for a long time, I always
ask them: What is the secret to being married 40 or 50 or 60
years? I get some funny answers and some good ones, too.
However, the one thread that seems to unite most of those
answers, though, is the word ``communication.'' And I would
just urge you--and I am sure you know this from your experience
in Texas. One of the things that we least like around here is
surprises, whether it is programs that do not work, technology
that is not working, funds that are insufficient. The sooner we
know those things, the easier it is for us to be helpful and
responsive, and the less likely it is that we will be unhelpful
and unresponsive.
So I would just urge you, as you take up these reins--we
want to have a good dialogue with you, an ongoing dialogue with
you to understand what your challenges are, what you need, and
how we can be helpful.
Mr. Murdock. I will commit we will have a good
communication to the extent that I can implement that. I think
one of the things that people would say, elected officials
would say about me in Texas, is that you didn't necessarily
like all the things that Murdock told you, but he always told
you what he thought the truth was. And that will not change in
this setting.
Senator Carper. Well, that is good. Did you have anybody
here that you wanted to introduce, any guests or any special
members of your family?
Mr. Murdock. No, I do not.
Senator Carper. All right. Is there anybody in the audience
you would just like to randomly pick out? [Laughter.]
Mr. Murdock. No. I wish my wife was here. She broke her leg
about 6 weeks ago and could not attend. But she, of course, is
important to this whole process and has been a very big
supporter of me for a long time.
Senator Carper. Does she know you are here?
Mr. Murdock. She knows I am here. [Laughter.]
Senator Carper. And there is no relationship between the
broken leg and the fact you have been nominated for----
Mr. Murdock. No.
Senator Carper. OK. That is good. Senator Collins.
Senator Collins. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Dr. Murdock, one of the keys to encouraging compliance with
the census is assuring individuals that their personal
information that they are providing is going to be safeguarded.
In 2006, the Department of Commerce reported to Congress that
some 672 laptop computers were missing from the Census Bureau,
and some of these computers contained personally identifiable
information. Then in April 2007, it was disclosed that the
Census Bureau had mistakenly posted personal data online.
What measures will you take to ensure that all census data
that contains personal or identifying information are protected
and to keep laptops as well as other equipment used to collect
data--for example, these new handheld devices that we are
talking about, how will you ensure that they are safe and that
there are not these kinds of security breaches that really
undermine public confidence in the census?
Mr. Murdock. Well, I think there are a number of things
that are being done from the public record in terms of the
Census Bureau, in terms of changing the events that led to
these unfortunate circumstances. They have a fairly advanced
property management system in place that provides both a paper
and a computerized system for keeping track of laptops, knowing
where they are, who has them, and under what conditions. The
computers now are increasingly encrypted so that if I did
obtain a copy of a computer of some form, I could not discern
what the identification--or the information was without the
code, so to speak. And, increasingly, as I look toward the
handhelds, one of the features of that will be that the data
will be transmitted to the data collection centers and then
will be erased from those handhelds. So these are a number of
things that are critical in terms of ensuring greater security
of people's personal information.
I see no higher priority than maintaining that confidential
information because, as I said in my opening statement, the
reality of it is that the census is successful if the American
people trust us, if they have confidence in us. And each time
one of these things occurs, a little bit of that confidence
slips away.
So I will do my best to ensure that the confidentiality of
people's personal information is maintained.
Senator Collins. Senator Carper mentioned the problems with
some of the contracts that the Census Bureau is involved with.
Let me first ask you a broader philosophical question.
According to a GAO report issued last year, as much as 17
percent of the more than $11 billion that the census is
projected to cost is going to be spent on seven major
contracts. This is the most extensive use of contractors in the
Census Bureau's history.
Do you think that the Census Bureau relies too heavily on
outside contractors to accomplish mission-critical work?
Mr. Murdock. Well, again, I would suggest I cannot know
whether it is too much or too little until I have looked at it
in greater detail. I think what you are looking at in several
of these areas are in the areas of IT, that is, technology, and
it is very difficult for any public entity--and I have seen
this at State levels and others--to maintain the kind of up-to-
date staff and to be able to support, frankly, be able to
afford salaries for the kind of staff that is necessary to keep
at the cutting edge. So I would expect that if the Census
Bureau is like other agencies, particularly in these areas, you
will find more contracting.
I think contracting is justified or unjustified depending
on whether it is the most efficient and effective way to
accomplish the goals of the organization. And this is
something, as I have indicated previously, that I will look
into, if and when I am confirmed, immediately in that
confirmation.
Senator Collins. Are you familiar with a very new GAO
report that was issued just last week, on December 11, that
took a look at some of these key systems acquisition contracts?
Mr. Murdock. In general terms, but I haven't had a chance
to look at it in detail.
Senator Collins. Let me just point out that the GAO
projects that there is going to be an $18 million cost overrun
by December of next year in one of the key contracts, and that
is obviously of concern to me. Even if it is due to changing
requirements, that is of concern because that means that the
requirements for the contract were not sufficiently thought
through in the first place.
Are you going to personally review contracts to see if they
are being effectively managed? How concerned are you about an
$18 million cost overrun?
Mr. Murdock. Well, I am very concerned about cost overruns
because we are using the funds of the American people, and I
think we need to be very clear and very careful in how we use
those funds.
I really cannot evaluate at this point what all the causes
are for that particular sum. I cannot even, frankly, know
whether that is, in fact, an accurate estimate or not. But I
will certainly look into it, if and when I am confirmed,
because cost management is effective. We know that obtaining a
complete count is critical. It is required by our Constitution.
It is really one of the hallmarks of our democracy. So it is
very important to get that. But at the same time, we want to
obtain such information, being as cost sensitive and efficient
as we possibly can. And I think we need to make sure that we
are looking at all those contracts.
I am not an attorney, but I will certainly look at those as
the Director and look at what the products are and what the
deliverables are and what the time frames are, etc.
Senator Collins. When we have a census that is projected to
cost double what the last census cost, I for one want to see a
quantum leap in solving a lot of problems and improving the
accuracy and making sure that the problems with undercounting
and overcounting are being resolved. Otherwise, I am going to
wonder how the cost escalated by that amount. I realize that a
decade is quite a long time, but a doubling of the cost ought
to produce some quantifiable benefits to the American people
and be translated into better accuracy.
I know my time has expired, and I do have to go on to
another event. Mr. Chairman, I am just going to ask if I could
submit for the record a question on undercounting, a question
on human resources, and also a question on an issue that I know
is of concern to you and Senator Coburn on the use of the
Internet and the fact that other countries have done that. So
thank you very much.
Senator Carper. You bet. All those questions are in order.
Senator Collins. Thank you.
Senator Carper. Thank you, and thank you for joining us.
I want to return to a point that has already been made
earlier, but I wanted just to revisit it, if I could, and the
theme is project management at the Census Bureau. Senator
Coburn and I have heard testimony at our oversight hearings
that the Census Bureau does not have enough staff on hand with
the skills and the backgrounds necessary to effectively manage
the kind of large-scale IT projects like the handheld computers
that the Census Bureau hopes to use in 2010.
And let me just say we have heard a lot of testimony from
other agencies that they do not have the staff on hand with the
kind of skills and backgrounds necessary for them to manage
their large-scale IT programs either.
But if confirmed, how would you address these alleged
shortcomings with respect to having the staff on board with the
kinds of skills and background necessary to manage large-scale
IT projects?
Mr. Murdock. Well, obviously, it would be premature for me
to suggest the extent to which there may be difficulties, but
certainly as we look at something as critical as the census and
the census other products, we have to obtain the expertise that
we need in order to manage funds and to manage contracts.
Whether that is best done by hiring additional people or by
doing it on a contractual basis or doing it some other way, it
is not possible for me to discern at this point, but it must be
done. And I commit to you that we will do our best to make sure
that we are managing contracts appropriately.
Senator Carper. All right. Senator Collins said this just
before she was leaving. She was talking about the increase in
the projected cost of the census going from about $6 billion in
2000 to roughly twice that in 2010. I will tell you, when I
first heard those numbers, I was shocked. I was shocked because
our technology is so much better now than it even was 7, 8
years ago, and I presume it is going to be better still by
2010. And while we have more people to count, I was surprised
to find that the cost--I thought it might go up marginally, but
given the advances of technology, I never imagined an almost
100-percent increase in projected cost.
Should I be surprised? Why or why not?
Mr. Murdock. Well, there are a number of factors that
obviously are impacting the census. One is certainly that we
have more people. We have a more diverse population speaking
multiple languages. We have populations that are living in a
variety of settings, if you will, in the United States. So
there are lots of complexities to the American population that
were, frankly, less there in 1980 or 1990 or even in 2000. And
as you get complexity in the characteristics of your
population, thereby the difficulty in counting and ensuring
that everyone responds to the census increases.
I really cannot evaluate at this point whether that is a
level of growth that we should have expected, but certainly
there are factors simply in what has happened to our population
that have increased the costs of counting that population.
Senator Carper. So the long and short of it is I should not
have been so surprised.
Mr. Murdock. Well, I cannot tell you what you should be,
Senator, but I think that it is a substantial growth in the
cost. We need to make sure that it is appropriate and that we
are getting our money's worth out of our programs.
Senator Carper. What do you suppose we could expect for all
that extra money?
Mr. Murdock. Well, we are doing a number of things. The re-
engineered census includes, for example, the American Community
Survey. One of the problems we have had with census data until
this period of time that we are looking at as we come to the
2010 census is that we would ask data on socioeconomic
characteristics at the decennial year, and then each year
thereafter the data became less accurate because things had
changed. So, in 1995, we were still using 1990 census data for
income and education, etc.
What we have with the new re-engineered census is annual
data that will be available for areas of all sizes on things
like income, education, occupational change, etc., things that
will help us keep a better measurement of what is happening in
terms of the American society and the American people.
So we are getting data that we have always wanted in order
to more effectively chart the situation, the conditions of the
American population. So it is not like we are getting the same
products. We are getting substantially improved products and
increased products that should help you in the Congress as you
govern our population and the public and the private sector in
a variety of ways.
So we are getting more--in addition to the impacts of
inflation and diversity and so forth of the population, so you
are getting a better product, a more frequent product from this
particular census process.
Senator Carper. All right. Well, thank you for that.
Senator Collins said, I think, just as she was leaving,
that she wanted to leave a couple of questions. I think maybe
one of them dealt with the issue I am about to raise, and that
is the Internet.
It turns out I just was handed a note by our staff that
Senator Coburn is not going to be able to join us today, which
is too bad because he has a great deal of interest in this
issue, as do I.
But as you know, the Census Bureau decided recently not to
include the Internet as a response option for the 2010 census.
Again, I was surprised. If somebody had asked me a year or two
out of the likelihood of us not relying on the Internet, I
would have not believed it. But I understand that this decision
came despite the fact that offering an online option would not
add to the total cost in any significant way.
Do you think that an online response option would improve
census response rates? Do you think that it would reduce the
amount of time and money spent to follow up with households
that do not respond to the initial census mailing? And if
confirmed, would you commit to looking into whether the
Internet can, in fact, be an option in 2010? I would be happy
to repeat those if you would like.
Mr. Murdock. Well, as you know, we discussed this when I
met with you. I think we must ultimately have an Internet
option among several other options for responding to census
materials. I commit to you that we can look into this, we will
look into this for census activities. It may not be possible
given how far along we are in terms of the 2010 census process
to do anything in regard to it at this point in time, but I do
believe we must have it in the long run.
The Census Bureau has made some tests of Internet options,
and I think you are aware of some of those. They did not find,
according to the reports that I have looked at, public reports,
they did not find a significant increase or improvement in
response rates as a result of the use of the Internet. And,
very importantly--and I think this must be a critical element
as we evaluate the potential use of the Internet--they had
substantial concerns about the protection of data and personal
data as a result of hacking, phishing, and other kinds of
processes.
As I said, I think we need to have that and a number of
other options eventually, but we cannot do it until we are sure
that we can protect the confidentiality of such data, and I do
commit that we will evaluate that option again and look at it
particularly for census operations down the road.
Senator Carper. A lot of folks in my State file their tax
returns electronically. A lot of people nationally file their
Federal tax returns electronically, both on the personal side
and the corporate side. It is hard to imagine information that
is more sensitive than that which we file with the Delaware
Division of Revenue or with the IRS. It just seems strange to
me that while we can do that and have been doing that for a
number of years, we are unable or maybe unwilling to tackle a
similar use of the Internet on this front.
As it turns out, in filing taxes, those who do it actually
prefer it to having to file the old way. I was reading some
survey results just this week about people's satisfaction,
customers' satisfaction with services provided by the
government. And they reported that the customer satisfaction
with the IRS was actually up, I think to about 55 percent. And
for those who file electronically, the customer satisfaction
was about 75 or 80 percent.
Mr. Murdock. That is exactly why I believe we must have
that option ultimately in terms of one option for responding to
the census. It clearly cannot be the only option, and I cannot
at this point, until and if I am confirmed and look at the
materials, commit to any particular time frame or inclusion of
any particular products. But it seems clear to me that we have
to get there, and I commit that we will work with you and your
staffs and others in moving that way.
Senator Carper. I will just forewarn you, and I am sure you
have already met with Senator Coburn and talked with him.
Mr. Murdock. Yes.
Senator Carper. My guess is this probably came up in your
conversation.
Mr. Murdock. Yes, it did.
Senator Carper. When you are confirmed--and I think you
will be--and have the opportunity to lead this agency in the
years ahead, you can just tell the folks that will be working
with you and for you that there are a couple of folks in
Congress, Democrats and Republicans, who are real interested
and who are going to be leaning on you hard to make sure that
you keep the commitments that you have made. Sometimes we do
not like to change things. We are comfortable with the way we
have always done things, and that has got to change. And I
respect the fact that you are prepared to use these handheld
computers--I say ``you''--the Census Bureau is prepared to use
the handheld computers, but we think you can do more and
better.
When I was governor and very involved in the National
Governors Association, we always talked about the States as
laboratories of democracy. If we were looking to do something
better on education or welfare reform or transportation, we
would always look to other States to see what they had done,
and then we would steal their ideas and never give them credit.
But in terms of just looking at your post as demographer of
Texas and all your work in Texas, is there anything that you
can point to where you have relied on technology or the
Internet, harnessing it in ways that might help or might inform
what you do as Director of the Census?
Mr. Murdock. Well, certainly we have found ourselves, as
the State Data Center, going from an entity where we answered
phone calls and we sent out xeroxed materials to a situation
where nearly everyone contacts us through the Internet. The
vast amount of our data is distributed as a result of web-based
activities, and it has totally changed the nature of what we
want in people. For example, we now ensure that everybody----
Senator Carper. When you say ``what we want in people,''
employees?
Mr. Murdock. Meaning in terms of skills, for example, so
that State Data Center people who used to be the first point of
response for the public, they needed to know how to find census
data, and then they needed to be good in terms of running runs
and so forth to provide it. Now we need people who are good at
using the Internet and are good at locating data and helping
people find that customized data that they usually want.
One of the things that has happened with the increase in
technology is that people want more specific information. They
are no longer happy with information that is State level if
they really want county level, and then county level if they
really want sub-areas of counties.
So we, certainly in Texas, grew accustomed to getting more
specific as a result of using technology, and I see no reversal
of that. We are going to increasingly rely on those kinds of
ways of disseminating information.
Senator Carper. All right. I know we have discussed this at
an earlier hearing--not you and I, but others before us. We
have talked about different countries, and I presume that most
of the countries of the world, certainly the major countries of
the world, conduct a census from time to time. And my guess is
that some of them actually figured out how to use the Internet
effectively and how to ward off the hackers. Am I mistaken? Or
has somebody already invented this wheel?
Mr. Murdock. I am not an expert on censuses done by other
countries, but certainly there are countries--Canada and
Australia, for example, are examples of countries that have
used the Internet as at least part of their response.
Now, not in all cases did they necessarily improve response
rates, as I understand it, but certainly looking into other
entities' use of these kinds of information, providing sources,
is one of the things that we will do.
Senator Carper. In my State of Delaware, our State motto
is, ``It is good being first,'' and the reason why that is our
State motto is because we were the first State to ratify the
Constitution. On December 7, 1787--220 years ago almost to the
day--Delaware ratified the Constitution, and for one whole week
we were the entire United States of America. So that is our
motto: ``It is good to be first.''
Sometimes there are some things, though, you do not want to
be first in, and using the Internet to actually do a part or
all of your census may be one of those things. But it is good
that other countries have gone first. You mentioned a couple of
them. And we can learn from them what they did well and what
they did not do so well, and their experiences, good or bad,
can help to inform us, and particularly the Census Bureau, as
we figure out how to use the Internet for a part of the census
that is coming up. And I would just urge us to do that.
I have at least one more question, and then I think we will
let you escape. Again, this has been touched upon already, but
I want to come back to it one more time.
When census time comes around, there is always discussion
of the groups out there that in the past have been
undercounted. Senator Collins alluded to that. Could you just
take a minute or so to discuss some of the groups that have
historically been undercounted? And what do you think are some
of the better strategies for getting them counted this time?
Mr. Murdock. Well, obviously, if you look at censuses as
long as we have been doing evaluations of the accuracy of the
count, certain populations have been repeatedly undercounted.
These include minority populations--African Americans,
Hispanics, other groups as well. It includes disproportionately
young adults versus older--more middle-aged and older persons.
This included--more likely to exclude, rather, people in rental
housing, etc. So we have seen a set of percentages for a long
time that have indicated that certain groups are more likely to
be missed.
As I look at the 2010 census, drawing on the experience
from the 2000 census, clearly some of the things that we will
do to address that, which I think are in place or will soon be
in place and are very important, is the partnership program. I
watched this in Texas, in areas like the colonias of Texas,
where it was very difficult to obtain information for a variety
of reasons, and by getting local people, people who were parts
of those communities as members of the partnership
organizations, we were able to get information that had been
missed by the census in previous periods.
So I think a strong partnership program is very critical,
and that program is one that, as you know, has been funded by
Congress in a variety of ways.
In addition, as you know, the census is involved in a very
active advertising campaign and communication program. It has
very active advisory groups that it draws on to provide
contacts to critical communities that have been among those
that have been undercounted. It is a very important area. We,
as Americans, want as complete a count of everyone as we can
possibly get, and we have to take those actions that will get
us there.
Senator Carper. Thank you. The point you just made about
the partnerships, that just makes a whole lot of sense, and the
idea of reaching into those communities that are undercounted
and drawing from those folks who can come forward and work with
the Census Bureau to reduce the undercounts is, I think, a wise
thing to do.
Those are my questions for today. As Senator Collins
suggested, she had a couple of other questions she is going to
submit for the record.
Let me just ask before we wrap it up here, is there
anything else that you would like to say that maybe during the
course of our conversation has come to mind that you would like
to--maybe just to get it off your chest?
Mr. Murdock. Well, the only thing that I would like----
Senator Carper. Maybe you are having second thoughts about
this job. I do not know. [Laughter.]
Mr. Murdock. The only thing that I would like to commit
again to you is that I will look forward to working with
Congress to work together to address these issues that are of
concern not only to you in Congress but those people that you
represent. And so I just want to commit again to working with
you to get us the best possible census we can possibly obtain.
Senator Carper. I welcome that comment to close with. What
I try to do around here is just to get things done and to get
people to work together toward that end. In my old job as
governor, you had to get stuff done. You had to produce, you
had to show results, and if you did not, folks would fire you
and hire somebody else. And I describe myself as a ``recovering
governor,'' and among the challenges that we face as a Nation,
one of the biggest ones is getting the census done and getting
it done right. And it is going to take all of us pulling
together and making sure that it happens. We have an obligation
to conduct oversight and, if you will, hold the feet of
different agencies within the Executive Branch to the fire, and
we will do that. But we will try to do that always in a
constructive way.
Again, I want to thank you for your willingness to serve.
We thank you for joining us today, for responding to our
questions, and, I believe, having responded to other questions
that have been posed to you by us in private meetings or in our
offices or in response to questions that have been posed to you
by members of our staff, our Committee and Subcommittee staffs.
Without objection, the hearing record will remain open
until the close of business today for the submission of any
additional statements and questions. And, with that, this
hearing is adjourned. Thank you all and happy holidays.
Mr. Murdock. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 4:30 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
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