Gripes & Grins, Part 4
Have more TSA experiences that you want to share? This is the blog post to share your TSA experiences -- both the good or the bad. (Click here to see Part 3, Part 2 and Part 1).
Please note that Blogger.com limits posts to 200 comments. To see comments beyond 200, click on the Post a Comment link (Part 3 comments).
Labels: Gripes and Grins
posted by Neil at
11:48 AM
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104 Comments:
I wanted to commend the screeners at OKC for giving me and the rest of my travel group a wonderful experience travelling through security.
May 27, 2008 1:19 PM
Will TSA please find a way to sanction American Airlines for imposing a $15 on the first checked bag? This decision is likely to increase the amount of carry-on luggage, and in doing so impairs your ability to provide effective screening at the passenger checkpoint. This undermines our security and makes the screening process less convenient for all of us.
May 28, 2008 5:28 PM
If a 10 year old kid can get all the way to the plane without a boarding pass (for the second time in a year), what hope do we have to keep a "real" bad guy out?
Runaway kid fools Sea-Tac security — again
May 28, 2008 10:11 PM
I just recently flew from DEN to SLC and back. The boarding-pass checker at DEN was particularly nice. I also noticed that the TSA now has their employee ID number right on their badge in large-ish print. I don't know when that happened, but I like it. I still didn't notice any comment cards, though.
The lines at DEN were awful, though. And yet there were two screening lines closed.
One thing that's confusing to me is that both airports are trialing the green/black line system, but it doesn't appear to actually be used as such. For example...a few months ago when I flew out of SLC, the TSA was actively saying "hey, black is for people that know what they're doing, green is for families and a more casual process." This time, at neither airport did they differentiate between black and green (although signs were posted) and families with small children were going to black lines because they were shorter at times, negating the point of it all.
But at least I didn't feel violated, much. One note: I think you should find a different body position for the body scanners. Putting my hands up like I'm being arrested just for a scan is...humiliating. I haven't had to do this yet, but looking at the sample pictures here it appears I will be someday. My hands outstretched to my side, fine. My hands up like I'm being arrested, not fine. Just my 2c.
May 29, 2008 12:18 PM
I agree with Tyler F - hands up arrest style is humiliating. Worse still is to have to do it in public and not being able to see your image or the person analyzing it.
I will not undergo full body scans unless this is changed.
May 29, 2008 1:35 PM
Hello:
Just wanted to congratulate MCO for having the best security staff (according to JD Power and Associates). Most of the screeners I encountered were friendly and professional. Comment cards were also there, but scarce. Need more comment cards, but keep up the good work!
Source:
http://www.jdpower.com/travel/ratings/airport-ratings/large
May 29, 2008 9:09 PM
Just wanted to report that the TSA screeners at MLI have always been very pleasant. Just one reason why I fly through there. Sorry I don't have a funny story, though.
May 30, 2008 4:47 AM
I flew out of San Antonio this morning and would like to share...
My flight, yesterday, was grounded for maintenance so I had an unplanned overnight stay and an early morning flight with another airline. I'd rather have not gone through this, but agree, better safe than sorry.
So, I give my confirmaition to the new airline and am told it's with the original. "No, the other ailine was yesterday. Today the confirmation is with you." A second set of eyes and I get my boarding pass. I was joking yesterday with the other guys I met in SAT that I has SS on my pass, but discovered it was the last letters of Econ Class with the SS sticking out of the jacket.
This wasn't the case today. Besides overbooking my flight down, causing me to take a 2.5 hour later flight, the maintenance of my outbound, the overnight, and ticketing agent hassles, I get tagged with SS on my boarding pass.
OK, I'm at the airport 2 hours early, so I have the time and know this is suppose to have been 'random', but how many random things can happen to one guy??
Two funny things came from this. The Special Security Search line had people fall in behind me, which they began handing items to others going through the regular check-point. Doesn't this circumvent why we're standing in line? Next, I clear the mag and hear, "Male assist, no alarm. Please stand over hear, sir." Great, no mag alarm, no xray problems, but I get pulled aside for a pat-down. "Sir, which of these items are yours?" "The green bag, shoes, and the contents of this tote." "DON'T TOUCH THE ITEMS!" What? Excuse me?? I mean, come on... I was touching the items all morning at the hotel, at the airport, while placing them in the tote, and while waiting in line. Now I place a finger on the tote to verify which items I'm claiming and I'm committing some kind of offense? I think not. If I had something to hide, I wouldn't be claiming it knowing it was going to be swabbed.
Don't get me wrong. The TSA was professional about the whole thing. I just think there are some areas that need patching and a little more common sense in others. This is important if you want people to trust the system.
May 31, 2008 10:41 PM
How many staff does it take to close a suitcase? At Burlington Vt last week both my bags were opened and inspected - I'm happy for that to happen. But when 5 staff (two in official uniform and 3 others in red sweatshirts - don't know who they were) tried to cram my belongings back into the bags I was mad. They made no attempt to enclose everything, leaving clothing hanging out and the baggage tag stuck half in and half out(and they wondered why it wouldn't shut!). They only closed the clip on one side of each bag, so my belongings went transatlantic gaping open on one side. As soon as I retrieved them from the arrivals carousel it only took 2 minutes to properly close everything up. Surely TSA staff can be trained to know how a suitcase works and close it properly.
June 1, 2008 3:41 PM
Carl Knox said: "OK, I'm at the airport 2 hours early, so I have the time and know this is suppose to have been 'random', but how many random things can happen to one guy??"
Don't know about you, but this gal here has been "randomly" selected 12 times in a row. I'm fed up of being puffed, patted (including my bare arms once) and having my personal belongings on display. I don't believe it is random at all, although I don't understand why a white 30-year old is on a hit list.
Here is a note to the TSA: please explain why you think marking SSSS on boarding passes is an effective safety method. We all know in advance we are going to be super-searched!!
June 2, 2008 4:32 AM
TSA do not mark the tickets with SSSS the airlines do...talk to them.
June 2, 2008 5:17 PM
My suitcase was searched after checking it but was not completely closed back up again. Why not? At baggage claim the zipper was open. Don't they realize items could fly out? If you want to look through my belongings, fine - but is it too much to ask to close everything up again? Since this is out of my control, how can I be guaranteed that this will not happen again? Homeland security?
June 2, 2008 5:40 PM
Anonymous said: "TSA do not mark the tickets with SSSS the airlines do...talk to them."
We have been through this before: Sure it is the airlines, based on TSA and their associate´s guidelines. No matter who does it, there is no sense in marking boarding passes in a clearly identifiable manner, then letting the passenger roam around alone until the security checkpoint. If the passenger was in fact carrying something objectionable, he/she can dispose of it or simply give it to another passenger without the SSSS!
June 3, 2008 6:02 AM
Anonymous said...
My suitcase was searched....
Checked bags are rarely in TSA’s control for more than a few minutes. While it is possible it did not get closed all the way (human error), it is far more likely it was snagged open along the way. Bags are moved along quite a few different conveyer belts, loaded, and unloaded, ect.. The best way to prevent this is to use a plastic “zip lock”..
June 3, 2008 2:35 PM
Anonymous said...
Will TSA please find a way to sanction American Airlines for imposing a $15 on the first checked bag? This decision is likely to increase the amount of carry-on luggage, and in doing so impairs your ability to provide effective screening at the passenger checkpoint. This undermines our security and makes the screening process less convenient for all of us.
May 28, 2008 5:28 PM
also...the carry on luggage amount stays the same which is 2 so good luck trying to bring 3 or 4 bags into the checkpoint as you will be asked to check a bag at the gate which is the same as prolonging your 15 dollar payment which will indefinitely be issued prior to boarding
June 4, 2008 5:27 AM
Anonymous said...
If a 10 year old kid can get all the way to the plane without a boarding pass (for the second time in a year), what hope do we have to keep a "real" bad guy out?
Runaway kid fools Sea-Tac security — again
May 28, 2008 10:11 PM
the only way i can explain that is...children do not need a boarding pass. thats true. but the walk through screener must have assumed the child was with an adult. which yes is a mistake on their part but when you are busy bringing hundreds of people you cant stop..well you CAN stop and ask whom is minding the child but when you have a rush i can see how a screener is more focused on bringing people in rather than who the child is with. kudos to the kid for knowing which gate to go to because most people dont know information like that.
June 4, 2008 5:32 AM
Carl Knox said...
I flew out of San Antonio this morning and would like to share...
My flight, yesterday, was grounded for maintenance so I had an unplanned overnight stay and an early morning flight with another airline. I'd rather have not gone through this, but agree, better safe than sorry.
So, I give my confirmaition to the new airline and am told it's with the original. "No, the other ailine was yesterday. Today the confirmation is with you." A second set of eyes and I get my boarding pass. I was joking yesterday with the other guys I met in SAT that I has SS on my pass, but discovered it was the last letters of Econ Class with the SS sticking out of the jacket.
This wasn't the case today. Besides overbooking my flight down, causing me to take a 2.5 hour later flight, the maintenance of my outbound, the overnight, and ticketing agent hassles, I get tagged with SS on my boarding pass.
OK, I'm at the airport 2 hours early, so I have the time and know this is suppose to have been 'random', but how many random things can happen to one guy??
Two funny things came from this. The Special Security Search line had people fall in behind me, which they began handing items to others going through the regular check-point. Doesn't this circumvent why we're standing in line? Next, I clear the mag and hear, "Male assist, no alarm. Please stand over hear, sir." Great, no mag alarm, no xray problems, but I get pulled aside for a pat-down. "Sir, which of these items are yours?" "The green bag, shoes, and the contents of this tote." "DON'T TOUCH THE ITEMS!" What? Excuse me?? I mean, come on... I was touching the items all morning at the hotel, at the airport, while placing them in the tote, and while waiting in line. Now I place a finger on the tote to verify which items I'm claiming and I'm committing some kind of offense? I think not. If I had something to hide, I wouldn't be claiming it knowing it was going to be swabbed.
Don't get me wrong. The TSA was professional about the whole thing. I just think there are some areas that need patching and a little more common sense in others. This is important if you want people to trust the system.
May 31, 2008 10:41 PM
the reason they ask not to touch the contents is because we arent at the hotel with you so we dont know whats in your bag. you can TELL US hey! there's nothing in my bag but then again who knows if the passenger has a gun. ok you dont...but what happens when someone who does have a gun in his/her bag says " oh no i have nothing in my bag".
June 4, 2008 5:43 AM
Here's the text of an email I sent to TSA-ContactCenter and the PHL FSD. Not only was I treated poorly, but TSA staff did not communicate with each other.
Just one question for the blog. Why do most TSA employees wear their white IDs so the writing is not visible?
SJC got it right on the return.
Email text follows - On May 25 in PHL, checkpoint A (near the low numbered domestic gates), I experienced improper and impolite TSA conduct. This was the direct result of TSA screening personnel not communicating with each other. at approximately 7:30-8 am I went through security, told the person at the WTMD I had ortho shoes and he correctly directed me to the glass door for the shoe swab. He did not say anything to the male assist person (Danny) who came to the door of the glass room. Danny asked me why I was there. I replied, "for a shoe swab."
Rather than ask the WTMD person why I was there Danny proceded to insist I remove my shoes. When I refused and told him they were ortho, he proceeded to berate me. And told me the magic words - "If you want to fly today you have to remove your shoes."
I asked for a supervisor after Tarik came and also insisted I remove my shoes - the supervisor (Rhonda) also told me that I wasn't going to fly unless I removed my shoes. At that point I reminded her that your own web site and blog state that ortho shoes do not have to be removed and maybe it was time to get someone higher up as well as someone from the airline. after a lot of conversation between us, Rhonda told Danny that I had a medical reason and just swab my shoes. The statement that she should have made when she first can into the situation.
At the end of this, I asked for a comment card. At first I was told they did not have any. Then a women in plain clothes said I had to give her my photo ID to get the card. I told her that your blog regularly addresses this issue and that comment cards are supposed to be readily available at all checkpoints. She still would not give me a card, asserting that,'if a police officer asked for ID I would have to show it." Of course, I reminded her she was not a police officer, and I that because the cards dangling from her lanyard, were turned around and not readable, I had no idea who or what she was. After more conversation including her telling me it was none of my business who she was, she told me her name was Lisa. But she never turned her ID so it was visible.
The persons involved in this incident were all unprofessional, nasty and did not follow the procedures posted on your web site and blog. None of their actions, except for swabbing my shoes enhanced security in any way.
I briefly outlined these events on the comment card I was given and turned it back in. I am concerned that one of the participants in the incident "deep sixed" my comments, so now that I have returned home, I am sending this follow up email.
June 5, 2008 3:06 AM
id card ? white ? if you couldnt see a name it was probably their dhs card turned around. pending how she wore it, it probably got turned around during the course of the day. it happens. most dont intentionally do it. maybe she did. i dont know.
June 6, 2008 12:54 PM
What does this new policy accomplish besides punishing those who wish to stand up for our right to travel without interference from our government? Anyone who is willing to lie and say that he lost his ID will be allowed to fly, while those who honestly and respectfully state that they would prefer not to show ID will be barred from traveling:
"TSA Announces Enhancements to Airport ID Requirements to Increase Safety
"June 5, 2008
"Beginning Saturday, June 21, 2008 passengers that willfully refuse to provide identification at security checkpoint will be denied access to the secure area of airports. This change will apply exclusively to individuals that simply refuse to provide any identification or assist transportation security officers in ascertaining their identity.
"This new procedure will not affect passengers that may have misplaced, lost or otherwise do not have ID but are cooperative with officers. Cooperative passengers without ID may be subjected to additional screening protocols, including enhanced physical screening, enhanced carry-on and/or checked baggage screening, interviews with behavior detection or law enforcement officers and other measures.
"Under the law that created TSA, the Aviation and Transportation Security Act, the TSA administrator is responsible for overseeing aviation security (P.L. 107-71) and has the authority to establish security procedures at airports (49 C.F.R. § 1540.107). Passengers that fail to comply with security procedures may be prohibited from entering the secure area of airports to catch their flight (49 C.F.R. § 1540.105(a)(2).
"This initiative is the latest in a series designed to facilitate travel for legitimate passengers while enhancing the agency's risk-based focus - on people, not things. Positively identifying passengers is an important tool in our multi-layered approach to security and one that we have significantly bolstered during the past 18 months."
June 6, 2008 5:22 PM
Arbee:
If you refused to remove your shoes because of medical reasons, I can not think of any reason for the staff at the checkpoint you came through to insist that they be removed. There are only a few reasons why people CAN keep their shoes on and medical reasons is definitly one of them. Out of curiosity, did you alarm the walk through metal detector? Did you get hand wanded? If so, did the shoes alarm the hand wand? Even if they DID alarm the hand wand, you shouldn't have HAD to remove them. There are ways for the TSO and STSO to clear the shoes. If however they felt as though they couldn't resolve an ETD alarm, they do have the authority to deny access into the sterile area based on the unresolveable alarms. But I am assuming from your comment that your shoes did not cause the ETD to alarm. If your comment about your experience at A east that day is true, I am ashamed for our organization and hope that you do not have to endure that kind of treatment again at any checkpoint. I am a supervisor and I can assure you that my staff is accountable for making the right decisions based on our SOPS while remaining cordial at all times. Please do not think we are all uninformed and nasty.
June 6, 2008 5:48 PM
Flying from Baltimore yesterday I had my bag inspected. Of course I only found out when I got home. They did close the outside zipper but neglected to close the zip lock bags they inspected. In one I had instant Ice tea which ended up mixed in everything in the bag. Add a little humidity and voila - stained clothes. Just to not make this a mistake on their part the bag to the shampoo, the body lotion and non-aerosol hair spray were all left open. The lotion tube leaked and that mixed with tea was quite a mess. Please, Please have the TSA inspectors take that extra SECOND of time to close the inside bags.
June 7, 2008 2:29 PM
This morning, my wife and I went through security in Denver, and were held up and admonished for not pulling our Ziplocks with liquid items out of our bags for inspection. I fly very regularly on business. and I haven't been asked to remove my baggie in at least six months (probably longer). When I asked the TSA agent what the deal was, I was told that every airport should still be requiring removal of the baggie. When I told him I live in Atlanta, he said, "Yeah, I hear a lot about Atlanta."
Based on my experiences with the Atlanta airport's sorry excuse for TSA screeners (they're much more interested in socializing with each other than doing their jobs), I wouldn't be surprised if the Denver agent was correct, but come on, guys. If you're going to treat all of us (including, say, Americans with current Top Secret security clearances) like we're convicts in a perp walk as we go through your bureaucratic security theater, the very least you can do is BE CONSISTENT. I'm sick and tired of arrogant TSA guys in one airport berating me for what's considered normal behavior at every other airport.
Get it together. And while you're at it, how about concentrating on finding actual bad guys, instead of thinking up new ways to bother law-abiding passengers?
Yeah, I know. That'll be the day...
June 8, 2008 5:38 PM
Thanks to a slow screener at Gulfport-Biloxi, I missed my flight to Atlanta and my connection to Seattle to attend my Dad's funeral.
I can't say I've been a TSA screener, but for less than a dozen people to take 20 minutes to get through security at Gulfport is uncalled for. And now I'm out $152.
And on the 10-year-old at Sea-Tac, it hardly surprises me. They have possibly the worst screeners in the country.
June 9, 2008 7:35 AM
1. Check in experience with new hip replacement
My new hip joint contains about a pound of stainless steel. It sets off the metal detector. To speed up the wanding and patting down process that I am forced to go through in an area removed from the xray machine for shoes and other belongings, I find that I need to empty all pockets of everything, as items as tiny as a wooden golf pencil with metal eraser holder excite the wand and must be removed to pass through xray. If I am traveling with a companion, I can simply hand everything, including my watch, belt and wallet over to them to put in their carry on and ask them to watch for my shoes. If traveling alone, I have a concern over the security of my belongings, including my carry-ons like my briefcase and lap-top computer. The wanding area is distant enough from the xray machine exit so that I cannot see or protect my belongings. This needs to be addressed. (My early experience in this matter included MDW and SRQ and both airports had this problem.)
2. Children unaccompanied by adults need no IDs. This is not stated on the TSA website. Some 16 year olds have no driver's license and look older than they are. How do they prove their age? Do they need a birth certificate? Currently, the TSA has no policy. What if a terrorist is underage? They have no identity except the name on the boarding pass which could be false. I consider this to be a security loophole.
George Hawley
Sarasota, FL
June 9, 2008 12:11 PM
I took 3 round trips to Seattle recently, that's 6 flights. On 5 of those flights, the baggage screens caught the bin holding my laptop so that it did not slam into metal at the end of the rollers. Flight 6 was different, returning home to Philadelphia, the baggage screener ignore the bin letting fly down the rollers and slam against the end. Now my laptop is cracked. Thanks a lot. This is why I don't like taking it out of the padded bag.
June 9, 2008 10:34 PM
Today walking thru the check point at ISP Mcarthy airport on long island I had my bag checked unpacked and was quetioned about many photographic items in the bag. My very expensive tripod was taken and I was told to go check it, I requested that the supervisor get the tsa rule book and read the section about photographers and tripods, I was told it made no difference what the tsa rule was I would not be allowed to carry it on. The person in front of me also had a tripod larger than mine and was allowed to carry it on? By the way I have carried this tripod onto every flight I have taken for the last three years. After checking my $800 tripod I had the pleasure of going thru the whole thing again only this time with my 3oz liquids in my bag. And I carried a large water bottle which never was checked although every piece of photographic equipment was molested. I watched people carry on large musical instruments, tennis rackets, canes, and other objects that were obviously not with in the TSA guidelines. My point is I appreciate the hard job TSA has and the difficulty of trying to keep us all safe in the air but randomly pulling a customer aside just dosn't make me feel safe. On the liquids rule, I teach high school chemistry and have know for years that a water bottle of clear and colorless liquid looking like water could be used to cause a major problem, so why isn't TSA proactive instead of reactive to potential threats. We are giving up our freedoms since the 911 attacks and it saddens me greatly.
June 10, 2008 1:57 AM
Did this blog get shut down?
June 10, 2008 9:20 AM
Although I realize that safety is a top priority, and we don't want to compromise that, there REALLY needs to be an amendment to the carry-on regualtions. It is ludicrous that we can only have 3oz of any liquid. Those of us who needed more were forced to check in a bag that could have very easily been carried on. Now, the airlines are taking advantage of this and are CHARGING people to check bags!! This is a nasty cycle that will most likely end with the demise of most of the airlines because of the utter cost and inconvenience of traveling. There needs to be a happy medium that will allow passengers to carry on items they need and not have to pay to check in bags. Thanks for your time.
June 10, 2008 4:12 PM
Please don't get me started on Atlanta. You can get to the airport 3 HOURS before your flight and still barely make it to the gate. SOMETHING HAS TO CHANGE! This system is completely inefficient, costly and is giving the airlines free reign to do whatever they want with passengers. Travelling is costly, inconvenient and just plain ridiculous. I think I'll move to Europe where atleast they have decent public transportation and rail systems that are very viable alternatives to air travel.
June 10, 2008 4:22 PM
Anonymous said...
Arbee:
If you refused to remove your shoes because of medical reasons, I can not think of any reason for the staff at the checkpoint you came through to insist that they be removed. There are only a few reasons why people CAN keep their shoes on and medical reasons is definitly one of them. Out of curiosity, did you alarm the walk through metal detector? Did you get hand wanded? If so, did the shoes alarm the hand wand? Even if they DID alarm the hand wand, you shouldn't have HAD to remove them. There are ways for the TSO and STSO to clear the shoes. If however they felt as though they couldn't resolve an ETD alarm, they do have the authority to deny access into the sterile area based on the unresolveable alarms. But I am assuming from your comment that your shoes did not cause the ETD to alarm. If your comment about your experience at A east that day is true, I am ashamed for our organization and hope that you do not have to endure that kind of treatment again at any checkpoint. I am a supervisor and I can assure you that my staff is accountable for making the right decisions based on our SOPS while remaining cordial at all times. Please do not think we are all uninformed and nasty.
Trust me my report was true . . . FSD's asst. (or maybe asst FSD - got her name, not title) called me after the blog post and email. She like you, verified my understanding that shoe may stay on under the circumstances and that no ID need be provided to obtain a comment card.
Although curiousity did in the cat . . . No I did not alarm the WTMD. I was not wanded - no need as no alarm. The shoe swab turned up fewer spikes of less amplitude than the swab of my CPAP . . . guess that means my shoes were "safer."
Thank you for feeling ashamed of your organization. While most of the time the front line staff get customer contact correct, they blow it enough of the time that something really needs to be done.
All the pr spin won't fix the lack of trust many of us feel for the procedures we are subjected to. You are one of too few if you expect all screeners reporting to you to always be cordial . . . probably unique if your expectation is actually met. To be honest, I'm content when they are not demanding and giving orders in an overbearing manner.
Again props to the folks at SJC who got the SOP correct on the return flight.
June 10, 2008 8:43 PM
"The booths close around the passenger and emit "millimeter waves" that go through cloth to identify metal, plastics, ceramics, chemical materials and explosives, according to the TSA.
While it allows the security screeners... to clearly see the passenger's sexual organs as well as other details of their bodies, the passenger's face is blurred..."
Thanks for making sure I will never fly again unless I absolutely don't have any other way to get to my destination. Perhaps as a demonstration every TSA employee working the machine can stand there and let passengers gawk at their exposed bodies. Fair's fair right? How long til these images show up online? They're not erased from the harddrive right? Just the screen. Anything digital can be copied and reproduced as seen by the failure of the music industry to lock down its product. If it can be seen and heard someone can steal it. The tsa is one huge failure of an organization. Oh but the pat down is a "choice" for now. So when is that choice getting phased out? When that choice is phased out what about children? You gutted some kid's teddy bear, convince me now that you'll do a thorough background check and rule out pedos who can now see digital renderings of live children's bodies and genitalia. Or that your officers aren't just going to pull aside attractive people to have a look. I mean, you've always done your homework on your personnel. You missed how many with a criminal background before? Something that any citizen can get for $24.95 at intellius. This country is not safer because of the TSA or any "evolution" resultant of putting it in charge.
June 11, 2008 11:07 AM
thank you houston hou airport for putting me in your storeage room for a privite screening. IT was fun reading all your importent things on the wall and look at the dif forms u use. Thanks for the drink of water after u took mine. If you fly out of hou ask for a privite just for the room.
June 12, 2008 8:35 PM
We had an idiot inspect our bags in January on a flight from Minneapolis/St. Paul, through NY to Belgium. The inspector opened one bag and afterwards put the large tie strap back around it, but didn't close the latches. Brilliant! When we collected our bags the one was open. What a way to start a trip!!!
June 13, 2008 1:59 PM
One report I read mentioned magnetic waves are involved in the scanning machines. I have not heard any reports about how the new scanning machines affect metal implants or pace makers. Does anyone know if there could be any harm to people with these conditions?
June 14, 2008 1:26 AM
TSA keeps doing the best job they can to ensure that the public knows well how absurdly incompetent they are. I wonder way we keep funding ridiculous clowns that waste my time when travelling and do nothing to make things safer.
I recently was asked to step aside for a search of my belongings. I complied of course with no questions whatsoever. As I was speaking with a colleague while my briefcase and luggage were searched, I was rudely told to sit down. I asked why (this would not aid the search), the TSA guy screamed at me to sit down again. I complied then to avoid his craziness get more out of control. He finished the search and gave me back my belongings with no words said.
Why do we travelers need to support this?
June 16, 2008 8:23 PM
It is so curious that as of this month yet again TSA is going to add yet another layer of aggravation to traveling with the new ID requirements that are going into effect. Where is all of this going to finally stop ? Yes the screeners have a job to do but with all that has happened with 10 year olds being able to bypass screening, failed testing of screening checkpoints or even worse the screeners being tipped as to a potential test what good is yet another set of rules ? It is time that the idea of "Homeland Security" be rethought into something that works. It is getting to the point that you are going to have to arrive at the airport 24 hours in advance just to get through TSA. There needs to be a complete overhaul and rethinking of policies and procedures that are not working.
June 17, 2008 3:08 PM
"Not Me"...This is what I say to myself everyday before I start my shift coming from 4 hours of classes. Wearing the TSA uniform I walk through the glass sliding doors into the terminal making my way up to the security checkpoint I always think "Not Me".
After many days of pulling out water bottles and getting cursed at from passengers a good attitude is hard to keep. At times I even find myself feeling the thoughts of "Is this job really important?" My answer to that question, yes it is and I am thankful to be part of it.
With the hundreds to thousands of bag checks I have done I usually just have to let some passenger know that they cant take their water bottle with them on the flight. I the proceed to wait for the cursing or negative comments. I brush it off and wait for another bag that needs to be checked. I go home to family and friends were I receive a more negative comments on how my job is a joke. Then I get up the next day and go to classes at school not wanting to answer the question to fellow students that yes i do work for TSA, due to negative comments I will receive. This is the circle of my life currently and yet....I am thankful to work for TSA regardless of the negative comments. How do I stay so positive with all the negative coming at me?
Yesterday for example I had to inform a passenger why he could not take his gun part on the plane. Yes it was not a fully working gun but just a gun part. He then proceeded to yell at me and ask for a supervisor, the supervisor was already on his way. He was yelling at me cause I was doing my job. Why was he so mad, was he really in need of that gun part on the plane?
Everyday passengers don't see the full picture of what happens at an airport but what only affects them and their life. Common human trait, but there are exceptions. I get to see the full picture. As A passenger waits in line they only see a TSO taking their water bottle, but what they don't see is that same TSO right before them took a gun, knife, taser, etc. from another passenger. This is why I say "Not Me".
I will not be the lazy worker that allows something to get by and hurt another. I will not be the reason why something can happen by a terrorist or mentally insane. Through out United States history 6-8 % of the population have been violent criminals. (Info from FBI crime statistics) I know that the vast majority of the flying public are just normal people that have only had a parking violation in their past, but it is that 6-8 % that I worry about. It is that 6-8 % that I want to keep from harming the majority.
This is why I say "Not Me", but instead I will keep you safe as you fly to your family reunion and I will gladly tell anyone, "Yes, you cant take your Buck knife, razor blades, pepper spray on the plane."
June 18, 2008 2:07 PM
I recently was SSSS at the Binghamton NY airport. That is OK. I am used to it. Short notice, one way flight, sometimes with a ticket being paid by an out of country company. I understand all those red flags.
What I fail to understand is that why when I present a TSA issued TWIC (Transportation Workers Identification Card) that the local TSA agent will not accept it as government issued ID.
PLEASE add the TWIC card to the list of acceptable ID's and educate the screeners to the same fact.
June 21, 2008 5:32 AM
I flew back home to Nashville TN from a weeks vacation in South Padre Island TX, yesterday. We departed the airport in Harlingen TX. As I walked up to the TSA checkpoint (where they compare your photo I.D. to your boarding pass), and handed over my boarding pass and my TN hangun permit (valid TN I.D.)and was told this was "unacceptable". I fly quite often, and use this I.D. all the time and told the agent as much. She then called over a "supervisor" and he agreed with her. I told them that I had used it at this very same checkpoint 2 months ago and in Nashville the prior week. They both stayed on their "power trip" and told me I would need to show them my drivers license. How comical! Why the change? I dug my TN d.l. out of my hand bag and they both gave it a very careful examination and I was able to proceed. I looked at the d.l. next to the handgun permit and the information is IDENTICAL! Why can it be used (the permit) as acceptable ID.everywhere except HARLIGEN? It takes a FEDERAL background check to get a gun permit and only a birth certificate to get a drivers licsense. GET CONSISTANT T.S.A.!!!!!
June 21, 2008 9:28 AM
I am upset as TSA agents cut my Brinks lock off my checked baggage when I flew from the Colorado Springs Airport (COS), which is suppose to be TSA approved and which TSA should have a master lock. I will also be writing Brinks about this also. Do TSA agents just cut a lock because they are too lazy to get the master key?
June 21, 2008 11:06 PM
On the TSA website for forms of acceptable ID when traveling, there is: "An airline or airport-issued ID (if issued under a TSA-approved security plan)"
Yet, whenever I am departing from an airport other than my home airport (a major hub), neither my airport or airline (regional affiliate for a major US carrier) ID is accepted, and I have to take out and show them my less secure form of ID, my drivers license. Please ensure screeners and ID checkers know that these forms of ID are acceptable, and, IMO, better than a drivers license.
June 22, 2008 3:20 AM
Coming back home to Houston the other day from McAllen, TX, I proceeded through security as I do all the time. I fly once a week if not every other week, so am quite used to TSA by now and normally have no issues as I have the whole system down, walk up, shoes off and everything into one bin, laptop into another, bag seperate...
This time though in McAllen, they search my laptop, and find an APPROVED item, a screwdriver, but insist that since the bits are exchangeable, that they are now considered "Drill Bits" and gets the item banned. Luckily I had stayed the night and had a bag to check this in, otherwise would have had to throw this item away.
Sad to say that a person can't recognize a bit from a screwdriver as different then a drill bit, and even when corrected, still stick their ground and not admit they were wrong and let you proceed, instead causing you to have to go back around and check your item, then go back through a second time, making something that is a mild inconvienence normally into a huge hassle.
If anyone is going to McAllen, TX, prepare to have their screeners make up things that your items really are, and not allow you to boad with them.
June 23, 2008 9:06 PM
I just got back from a trip to Alaska. Because of an ankle injury, I was concerned about going through security with my support boot. While all of the TSA people at ORD, ANC, and FAI were pleasant, I really want to comment on the staff at ANC on Friday, June 20th.
I arrived at the security line at 6:00 AM, and saw that the line was probably about 100 people long. As a frequent flyer, my only thought was that I'd miss my flight (I would have in most airports). The TSA people remained very pleasant even with the high load, and amazingly, I walked out of the security area at 6:20.
This included my extra 5 minutes to remove and put on my boot.
Thanks for the excellent service. I appreciate what you do to keep the flights safe for me.
June 24, 2008 9:35 AM
Up until my most recent trip (June 15-22), I have had no problems getting through the security screening. However, TSA screeners now seem to have a habit of LEAVING FLUID CONTAINERS OPEN after inspection of checked baggage. This has allowed the fluid to leak inside my luggage and onto clothing. While I was lucky, my newly wed bride was not. Hopefully, it won't ruin what she packed, but where is the compensation if it is? While I agree that TSA needs to check out packed fluids (ours were less than 8 ounces), leaving the containers open for spillage amounts to vandalism and the screeners should be disciplined for such behavior.
This occurred at CAK and Freeport, Bahamas.
June 24, 2008 10:53 AM
One compliment, one complaint. I live in Milwaukee and fly frequently. Until this past week, I did not notice that the overhead sign immediately after security but before the chairs you sit down on to put your shoes on says "Recombobulation Area". I nearly fell over laughing. I love that someone has a sense of humor. Really, thank you.
On a different note, in early May there was all sorts of hoopla about new security lanes designed for frequent/experienced travelers, families, and casual travelers. Except for those first two weeks, I have yet to see those lanes open again. Hoopla is great, but I'm still stuck behind the folks that haven't gotten word that they need to take their shoes off...
June 24, 2008 10:28 PM
i purchased specially marked locks (tsa approved) for our bags flying from the toronto airport to the US .. one lock somehow disappeared (probably was broken when it should have been opened with your special key) the other bag was opened properly and the lock was intact.
why should this have been done. it is very inconsiderate and is not helpful in an already stressful environment.
anonymous
June 25, 2008 4:36 PM
For the past four flights that I have taken on Horizon (Using a buddy pass) I have been "SSSS"ed each time through security (my wife too). Being in touch with the statistical side of the world, to me this does not sound like a normal even distribution.
Is there a logic behind making all buddy passes do the full run through at security?
June 25, 2008 5:16 PM
Someone of the bloggers here need to address the TSA-approved lock issue officially.
Here's my unofficial answer...
It's actually more of a pain to break the lock off than to use the master key it's most likey:
1) Locks used to break a lot before 9/11, it's just that the bag smashed into another bag or came in on a weird angle and the lock broke off, most of those aren't exactly titanium padlocks.
2) The baggage handlers take advantage of the "TSA Inspected" sticker to poke around in the bag without getting into trouble.
June 25, 2008 5:33 PM
TSA has given us a list of acceptable ID's and handgun permits aren't on the list. This list has changed quite a few times btw so that accounts for the inconsistency.
June 25, 2008 11:25 PM
Harking wrote:
For the past four flights that I have taken on Horizon (Using a buddy pass) I have been "SSSS"ed each time through security (my wife too). Being in touch with the statistical side of the world, to me this does not sound like a normal even distribution.
Is there a logic behind making all buddy passes do the full run through at security?
I was in a similiar situation once flying on buddy passes with Pinnacle before I came to work at the TSA.
The selectee-selection process (i.e.; ways of getting the SSSS marks on the boarding pass) come in a variety of different ways, but most of them come from the airlines themselves - there are very few instances where TSA adds the SSSS marks to the boarding pass if they were not already there.
A passenger being made a selectee by the airlines can be the result of the CAPPS thing or simply by where you're flying - going to Tel-aviv, for example, usually generates bucketloads of selectees.
I discovered that it's the policy of Pinnacle to assign anyone that is flying non-rev (such as a buddy pass) to selectee status. What they want to do that for, I couldn't guess, but as far as the TSA themselves are concerned you're another selectee to screen and we don't know why.
It's quite possible that Horizon has a similar policy, where anyone on a buddy pass is automatically made a selectee.
June 26, 2008 12:19 PM
I have a question. I've watched people who simply don't understand what they need to do at a security checkpoint (usually children, or the elderly, or people who just don't travel much). (Yes, there are people who just don't understand the process.) The TSA screeners will just let them futz around and try to comply, when they have no clue what they are supposed to do.
I'm ashamed to say that I've never stepped up and helped any of these people understand what's going on. Why? Because I'm afraid of the TSA. You've got me so afraid of being accused of something, that I won't even help an old lady.
This is just wrong.
Now, I want to know, what would you do to me if I helped such a person through a checkpoint?
June 27, 2008 12:23 PM
I think you'd be thanked by any TSO with a lick of sense for helping out a fellow traveler. Often at our airport when we aren't too busy we TSO's do step up and help those needing it through the process. Now for a pet peeve: please do not dump off your elderly disabled relatives at the door to manage for themselves all the way through the process of checkin, security, and getting to the gates. I know they think they can handle it alone and they probably can, but no one cares for your loved ones like you do, so it makes sense for someone other than airport employees to be responsible. Besides the airlines will give a gate pass to enable you to assist them all the way through security.
June 27, 2008 6:22 PM
Now for a pet peeve: please do not dump off your elderly disabled relatives at the door to manage for themselves all the way through the process of checkin, security, and getting to the gates. I know they think they can handle it alone and they probably can, but no one cares for your loved ones like you do, so it makes sense for someone other than airport employees to be responsible.
Sounds good but when our elderly relatives go through the security process we can't help them. TSA types run us off even if we want to assist. TSA's screening process for the disabled and elderly is designed to intimidate both groups to stay away from air travel.
Besides the airlines will give a gate pass to enable you to assist them all the way through security.
Lot of good that does when we can't assist our relatives. Try again.
June 28, 2008 9:23 AM
Now, I want to know, what would you do to me if I helped such a person through a checkpoint?
Uh'm... nothing?
June 28, 2008 9:59 AM
TSO Dean, you've seen your airport and your screening area. Can you tell me with a straight face that all screeners at all airports behave like you do?
I've witnessed outrages on the part of TSA screeners dealing with children, elderly, and handicapped during my frequent (at least 2x/week) travels. Try again.
June 29, 2008 8:26 AM
Miller wrote:
TSO Dean, you've seen your airport and your screening area. Can you tell me with a straight face that all screeners at all airports behave like you do?
Can you tell me with a straight face that all _____ at all _______ behave like _____?
That question is about as ridiculous as questions get.
Of course I can't.
But you did ask:
Now, I want to know, what would you do to me if I helped such a person through a checkpoint?
And my answer is:
Uh'm... nothing?
No need to try again. :)
I've witnessed outrages...
That all depends entirely upon what your definition is. We had one screener who'se retired now who felt it was an "outrage" that any military people had to be screened at all.
One time, a small child (I'm thinking maybe two or three) came through with a cochlear implant, which meant he had to have a full-body pat-down instead of walking through the WTMD. I'm sure that someone else in the line, who didn't know what was going on, felt that what I was doing to the kid was an "outrage."
Now if you mean, like, bashing someone over the head with the hand-wand or something - yeah, that would be an outrage.
Lot of good that does when we can't assist our relatives.
Do you mean, like, if they have to be hand-wanded because they have a hip and two knee replacements, and they "run you off" from the hand-wanding area? Or if they're in a wheelchair and have to be patted down, they "run you off" from being right there with them?
...Well, yeah. They have to be kept isolated from other people (namely, those that have already been screened and cleared) so that no prohibited item could be passed off. That's just basic security there. It's also good to keep the immediate area clear, too, since a good deal of movement has to take place and you being there could well end up being in the way, and you're making it take up much more time than it should.
As for helping someone... say... divest their metal items or help them with a laptop? What kind of crackpot would want to fuss at anybody for doing anything like that?
Mayhap you might want to try again. Only, this time, can you come up with something more specific?
June 30, 2008 6:04 PM
I'd like to ask on behalf of upright bass players consistent, reasonable, affordable guidelines for flying with the bass. Traveling with our instruments is crucial this day and age to make a living.
July 2, 2008 10:01 AM
On two separate occasions departing from MIA, the TSA approved lock has been cut off of one of my bags, and the zipper pull tag has been cut off as well. Even if TSA could not open the lock and had to cut it off, why would they also cut off the zipper pull tag? I now have to use a key ring to pull the zipper closed on each of the two bags.
Please comment.
July 2, 2008 3:16 PM
I've tried to open or close very full bags and had the zipper tab pull off or break. I'm not sure if that is what happened or if it just got torn off on either one of the many belts or other bags it came in contact with.
July 3, 2008 12:26 PM
"TSO Dean, you've seen your airport and your screening area. Can you tell me with a straight face that all screeners at all airports behave like you do?
I've witnessed outrages on the part of TSA screeners dealing with children, elderly, and handicapped during my frequent (at least 2x/week) travels. Try again."
Are you kidding? At least here at MIA, I haven't in my 2 years seen a single "abuse" against children, elderly people, and handicapped people.
Most TSOs are helpful, courteous and very respectful.
If fact we have a course that they make us do over and over and over and over again about how to deal with passengers with disabilities.
Can you tell me what airports do you fly to? Maybe MIA is the greatest in the entire nation and I have never been aware of it.
These comments make me confused, do I work in the Bizarro world airport?
July 3, 2008 10:05 PM
Can you tell me what airports do you fly to? Maybe MIA is the greatest in the entire nation and I have never been aware of it.
O'hare
Kansas City Intl
DFW
Denver
Minneapolis
Orlando
Columbia SC
Newark
Atlanta
Bismark
St Louis
To name a few.
July 5, 2008 9:29 AM
I recently flew out of BWI. I flew out of Terminal B (southwest)where the TSA has created a futuristic zone for moving passengerrs through security. They now have an automated machine that moves your stuff through, and does not really stop. I wanted to provide feedback that it was very difficult to get all of my stuff back in my back, and get out of the way with the baskets moving on thier own. I was also worried ath if I didn't get my stuff out in time, the box will fall down the shoot, and go back to the start. The recomposure bench is hard to get to when you have so many items on the belt. If the perrson was older they would have had a tougherr time than I did. Also, the agents were really busy in a conversation. There was no instruction that I was supposed to take the bin off and move it to the other location. The other interesting thing is that 3 of us in the line had no clue what to do. The suggestion I would make is that there is more vigilence, and hep with these new technologies. Although they might move quickly they are tough to use, and need some guidance. I did view the site that has been setup to show the setup. I think the open environment of this website if fantastic.
July 8, 2008 10:14 PM
I recently travelled through the Rochester Airport and didn't understand the need to show my boarding pass twice within a 6' distance. The TSA guy could clearly see the first TSA guy ask and look at the boarding pass and then wouldn't let me through the metal detector until I produced it for her. What a waste of taxpayer money. Of course I have never had to produce my boarding pass just to get a tote to put my belongings in anyway. Yes usually when going through the metal detector but not before. Of course after checking the boarding pass and ID checked prior to even getting to this point should be enough. The only thing I can think of for be a reason for the additional check at the metal detector is in case somehow someone slips through the first check. Finally, a TSA guy got a nice new gold fish hook money clip, that probably made his day. How dangerous can a gold money clip shaped as a fish hook be. TSA or whoever makes the rules on what can and can't go needs to use a little more common sense on the true possible threats to life, a gold money clip isn't one of them. Well Mr. TSA enjoy it.
July 10, 2008 3:17 PM
The idea of improving customer service training for the screeners is great. The chaos at major airport security lines, the screaming screeners, and the overall rudeness disconnects passengers from the process and cannot improve safety. What a contrast it is to fly out of Louisville (KY), Paris, Zurich, or Cologne where screeners are courteous and effective.
July 16, 2008 4:33 PM
I have a bad back. I can't bend over as far as is necessary to untie/tie my shoes (when not wearing loafers). I mentioned this to the TSA agent. He said, "Come over here." I said, "Yes, but don't you want me to go through the metal detector?" Nope. He preferred a full pat-down from top to bottom, which took eight times as long as it would have taken for somebody to just help with the shoes. So that's it, once and for all. I. WILL. NEVER. FLY. AGAIN. Thank you, TSA, for your unfathomable incompetence.
July 17, 2008 1:39 PM
Anonymous Anonymous said...
I have a bad back. I can't bend over as far as is necessary to untie/tie my shoes (when not wearing loafers). I mentioned this to the TSA agent. He said, "Come over here." I said, "Yes, but don't you want me to go through the metal detector?" Nope. He preferred a full pat-down from top to bottom, which took eight times as long as it would have taken for somebody to just help with the shoes. So that's it, once and for all. I. WILL. NEVER. FLY. AGAIN. Thank you, TSA, for your unfathomable incompetence.
July 17, 2008 1:39 PM
What is frustrating about this post is that the TSO was trying to make things easier for you. We have a chair for passengers to sit down and remove their shoes but if they cannot for whatever reason they walk through the metal detector and get more screening. This screening may take longer than taking off shoes, or not depending on the person. We can only do what we can do to get everyone screened.
July 17, 2008 7:14 PM
Ahem. Far be it for me to come across like an apologist for the TSA, bu~ut...
Anonymous dude with the bad back:
...Seriously, guy, the TSO was trying to do you a favor.
Granted, I would have personally handled this a different way (we have a chair handy in the prep area for people who need to sit down to remove their shoes; I'd have had them sit there and removed the shoes for them), but what he did wasn't incorrect.
If a person declares that they cannot remove their shoes for a medical reason, we don't require that their shoes be removed and, instead, bring them over for additional screening.
He didn't use a hand-wand because he wanted you to be able to sit down while he was doing the screening, and you can't hand-wand someone while they're seated in a chair.
Personally, I'd think the onus is more on you for not asking for assistance in removing your shoes. Strictly speaking, if anyone asks for help, we're obligated (and not just duty-bound, but because it's the decent human thing to do) to render that help.
July 18, 2008 11:12 PM
Anonymous said
I have a bad back. I can't bend over as far as is necessary to untie/tie my shoes (when not wearing loafers). I mentioned this to the TSA agent. He said, "Come over here." I said, "Yes, but don't you want me to go through the metal detector?" Nope. He preferred a full pat-down from top to bottom, which took eight times as long as it would have taken for somebody to just help with the shoes. So that's it, once and for all. I. WILL. NEVER. FLY. AGAIN. Thank you, TSA, for your unfathomable incompetence.
Thanks to the two TSA screeners for posting. But, isn't the SOP to have the pax go through the WTMD and then, assuming no alarm, screen based on "no alarm" meaning only a shoe swab is necessary?
July 20, 2008 2:04 AM
Just returned from a trip across the country and opened my bag to find everything once again in disarray. Seems that despite my attempts to pack my bag carefully to protect any potentially fragile items, I arrive at my destination after EACH TRIP to find that TSA has pulled everything out of my bag and haphazardly shoved it back in. I grudge TSA for this insensitive handling of personal property.
July 20, 2008 7:16 PM
Thanks to the two TSA screeners for posting. But, isn't the SOP to have the pax go through the WTMD and then, assuming no alarm, screen based on "no alarm" meaning only a shoe swab is necessary?
July 20, 2008 2:04 AM
We did not say what type of extra screening would be done. It really depends on many issues and since our SOP is SSI I won't comment about what screening is done when shoes are left on. The swabbing of shoes is one thing we do do, but it's not the only thing.
July 20, 2008 10:25 PM
Anonymous said...
Just returned from a trip across the country and opened my bag to find everything once again in disarray. Seems that despite my attempts to pack my bag carefully to protect any potentially fragile items, I arrive at my destination after EACH TRIP to find that TSA has pulled everything out of my bag and haphazardly shoved it back in. I grudge TSA for this insensitive handling of personal property.
July 20, 2008 7:16
This one is very understandable if you would put yourself in the shoes of the baggage TSO's for just a few seconds. They have to screen thousands of bags a day. Some are well packed. Some have things fall out all over the ground as soon as you unzip. Some zipper tabs are gone. Some even TSA locks do not open with the key. Some bags fall apart when you try to rezip them back up.
So you have to go to the bottom of the bag to screen the stack of books and magazines and you have a stack of bags to get through and get on the plane as quickly as possible. Sometimes the books can be taken out without removing all the items on top, but that isn't always the case, and then getting them back in without messing up the rest of the items in the bag is downright impossible. Sometime we have to dig all over the bag to find a jar of some item, or screen your toiletries. We do not open these items btw, but often they are wet or slimey. After doing whatever screening it is we have to do in each individual bag we repack quickly trying not to forget anything, or mix up things with the other screening going on in the same tight, hot area, and if you have some type of lock on there we will relock your bag. But, we aren't perfect and with the sheer number of bags being screened the possibility that a lock gets missed can't be overstated.
Often I find items packed so poorly that I cannot in good conscience repack the breakables the way I found them and I do my best to protect them with clothing or what have you. But, I am not perfect in this and with the time I have I won't make up for the bags that are packed poorly that we never even went into.
July 21, 2008 6:35 AM
I wonder if it is possible for TSA to publish a list of items that are bound to be screened in your checked luggage - then people could either not take them at all or pack them in their carry-on luggage.
Books, magazines, toiletries - what else?
July 21, 2008 6:17 PM
TSA would not allow us to bring a small jar of Jiff peanut butter through security. I never thought of peanut butter as a liquid, except maybe natural peanut butter that can separate and create an oil layer. But this was definitely the highly processed stuff that never separates. Prior to the peanut butter incident, I had to throw away pineapple jam, but that I could almost understand since it is somewhat liquidy. But peanut butter? Is this a standard for TSA nationwide or more of a judgement call by a specific agent? I would appreciate your feedback. Thanks!
July 21, 2008 11:26 PM
Angela said...
TSA would not allow us to bring a small jar of Jiff peanut butter through security. I never thought of peanut butter as a liquid, except maybe natural peanut butter that can separate and create an oil layer. But this was definitely the highly processed stuff that never separates. Prior to the peanut butter incident, I had to throw away pineapple jam, but that I could almost understand since it is somewhat liquidy. But peanut butter? Is this a standard for TSA nationwide or more of a judgement call by a specific agent? I would appreciate your feedback. Thanks!
July 21, 2008 11:26 PM
Sorry to hear about your peanut butter.
There is more to 3-1-1 than liquids. It also includes pastes, gels, and aerosols. Peanut butter would fall under pastes. Take a look here. PB in a jar 3.4 oz or less would be OK.
Now I'm craving PB&J on toast with a big glass of milk!
Bob
EoS Blog Team
July 22, 2008 12:38 AM
Phil,
If you're wondering why I rejected your comment, it's because you quoted me and added words to my quote. Not cool. You and I both know that was not my original quote, but others might not...
Bob
EoS Blog Team
July 22, 2008 11:18 AM
Bob wrote:
"Phil, If you're wondering why I rejected your comment, it's because you quoted me and added words to my quote."
When quoting someone, it's fairly common to paraphrase, adjusting some words to provide context or clarity. The the way of indicating that you have done so is to include the parts that are not a direct quote in brackets. I did so. (For more on this, search the Web with keywords: quoting, paraphrase, and brackets.)
Following is the comment I attempted to post last night, revised to make it past the censors:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Angela wrote:
"TSA would not allow us to bring a small jar of Jiff peanut butter through security."
Bob of the EoS Blog Team responded:
"It also includes pastes, gels, and aerosols. Peanut butter would fall under pastes. Take a look here. PB in a jar 3.4 oz or less would be OK."
(Note: To clarify what "it" was, I originally replaced "it" with "[TSA's absurd restriction on which states of matter in which quantaties may be carried aboard commercial airliners and which are so dangerous that they must be confiscated by TSA agents, combined in a big trash barrel, and eventually buried in a landfill]".)
Bob, on that same page that lists the peanut butter restrictions you referenced, we find that "gel-type candles" are not allowed in carryons, but are allowed in checked luggage. We also find that "flammable liquid, gel, or aerosol paint" is not allowed in carry-on or checked luggage. Since you recently read these regulations in research for the other person's question about the dangers of peanut butter on commercial airplanes, could you please provide an example of a gel-type candle that (unlike other flammable gels) your organization will allow airline passengers to transport in checked luggage? Could you take a wild guess at how we might operate such a gel candle -- one that your co-workers will not consider to be a flammable gel?
Does TSA even proofread these regulations?
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Upon further review of the regulations, I suspect that the second regulation may apply to (flammable liquid paint, flammable gel paint, and flammable aerosol paint) and not, as it seems upon first read, to (flammable liquid, flammable gel, and flammable aerosol paint). Regardless, it is confusingly-written, and I'm left wondering why no one at TSA noticed and did anything to improve it.
Also, this is a great place to once again ask: Where has TSA published up-to-date copies of all rules and regulations that TSA requires someone to abide by in order to fly via commercial air from one American state to another without leaving the country?
It is ridiculous that we Americans and our guests must put up with the confusion that comes from being subjected to rules and regualations that we are not allowed to see. Much of what TSA does is essentially enforcement of secret laws, which is an entirely un-American practice.
So Bob, I'll agree that my paraphrasing of your quote was a bit out of line, and maybe you'll agree that much of what your organization does is unconstitutional.
July 22, 2008 1:38 PM
I don't travel a lot by air but after reading these postings I think people should thank the TSA screeners for doing such a dangerous job without wearing HAZMAT suits - imagine having to deal with hazardous stuff like peanut butter, shaving foam, liquid deodorants and bottled water day after day, without suitable protection. Makes me shudder to think of doing it myself.
July 22, 2008 8:11 PM
Absolute Power for some isn't a good thing!
http://cbs2chicago.com/investigations/xrated.security.screenings.2.777423.html
July 23, 2008 3:19 PM
Reasons for Artifical Replacement Screening:
This may have been explained somewhere else in the many posts here but its regarding the procedures with people who have artifical implants such as knees or hips...
If someone says they have a knee replacement, sets off the metal detector, shows there medical card of that replacement, than just has that knee area handwanded, theres a huge flaw with that...
Say someone wishing to do harm has a knee replacement, goes through the above mentioned steps, yet has a 9mm or a detonator straped to the small of their back or under their armpit...these areas would have never gotten checked if the procedures arent the way they are. His knee would have just gotten checked, would have beeped to varify he has a knee, and he would have been sent on his way. This is why the whole body has to be checked, so that there isnt anything else elsewhere on the body... this should be common sense
July 26, 2008 5:34 PM
While placing my bag on the belt for screening in New Orleans on July 17, I pulled out my handkerchief to blow my nose (worst summer cold I've had in years). The TSA screener immediately directed me to run my handkerchief through the xray machine. When I hesitated to spread my germs to other passengers that way, she informed me that sometimes people forget they have a cell phone in their handkerchief. They do not earn our respect when they do not use common sense.
July 27, 2008 2:05 PM
As I was unpacking from my trip to Charlotte, I noticed that a box of cereal bars I had bought on my trip had been opened and one cereal bar was missing. (There was a TSA notice in the bag, so I know it was searched.) Although a 50 cent loss isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things, it's scary to think that the people checking our bags for security threats feel entitled to take whatever they desire without fear of redress. At a minimum, the TSA notices should have the id number of the employee responsible for checking the bag to ensure accountability.
July 28, 2008 9:32 AM
anonymous sure has a lot of post...just fyi for those you that dont approve o TSA please have the guts enough to post yourselfs. I fly 3times a week and understand some screeners are rude but 90% are fine. Besides all of you that are complaining are lying to your if you think your always pleasnt. Besides there probably mad because of you gross stupidity. As for iregularites in screening some are done for a reason others for the simple fact people look at thongs in different ways. Have you ever read something and got a differnt opinion then your coworker? There is some much i want to say but Thanks for the TSA. because you are not smart enough to understand something dosent make it wrong or the people doing it idiots. I know a lot of of the screeners where i fly on first name basis. Many of them are former miltary whom continue to protect me even though their military careers are over. I know most of you bloggers cant say that. To my TSA that reads these post continue to do what you do you can never make everyone happy so work hard and be safe thanks Dmac
July 30, 2008 3:05 PM
As a TSO for a not so major airport, I want to toss my 2 cents in. People complain that we're rude, or treat passengers harshly and that we're not educated.. I have 3 college degrees and have never been treated worse in my other jobs. I've been cussed out for trying to explain the liquids policy, I've had a passenger tell me that we "should be trying to keep the damn Mexican's out instead of taking my 32oz gel bottle" and this was with a hispanic man standing next to him, I've had to step away from passengers and call a supervisior because I've been threatened to be hit.. Now I'm 5'3" and those threats came from a 6'7" man because I took his water. I understand this is a thankless job, but it's my job. Learn what you can and can't take on, learn that laptops need to be taken out, learn that it's a walk-thru and not a STOP-thru, figure out that if your beeping, you have something on you.. and cell phones do beep. We get cranky and pissy because the public is frustrating, if you think you can do a better job then I can.. have at it, and about TSO's that don't take pride in their work, I agree, find another job.. I'm proud of my appreance and my uniform is pressed before I go to work, and my shoes are shined.. If you see TSO's standing around doing nothing but talking, unless they are in their lanes, they are probably on a break or lunch, and honestly neither of those is long enough, we have online training we have to do, we have our timesheets to file out, and we have to have some personal time. I respect my passengers, I understand it's hard to remember all the rules and regulations but if passengers would read the 12 dozen signs we have about 3-1-1 and read the sign saying ALL FOOTWARE MUST BE REMOVED, life would be great for all involved.. but the problem is, no one reads or dare I say it? YES ..People are too stupid to read and understand something so simple. Get it through your skulls, 3.4 fluid oz, 1 quart sized bag, 1 bag per person; if we find anything larger we will ask you if you want to A. check your bag with the airline or B. Surrender it, if you are unwilling to do either, I will call my supervisor and have them explain the policy and they will be nice about it when they A. either tell you the same thing about checking the bag or surrendering it.. or B. explain that with that item you WILL NOT fly.. case closed. it's a safety issue, if I can't trust someone on a plane that I am flying, I will not fly.. and at my airport when someone surrenders an item, we donate it to a homeless shelter, we do not throw the item away.
August 4, 2008 2:37 AM
Those of you that complain that your baggage was mishandled, left open or damaged need to quit always blaming TSA. We handled your bags the LEAST. Usually it is the airline baggage handlers that are throwing bags around, kicking them, tossing them in and out of the aircraft. The vast majority of thefts are because of airline baggage handlers.
Those that complain that you can’t see our names on our ID cards because they are turned around backwards I can assure you most of the time the cards do that all by themselves in just walking around. If you don’t believe me get a lanyard and put an ID card on it and wear it around your neck all day and see what happens. Do SOME people do it on purpose—sure they do.
Those of you that complain that “they didn’t make me do that in such and such an airport” the best I can tell you there is that some randomness is good for security whether it be on purpose or by accident. If every airport did everything EXACTLY alike it wouldn’t be too hard for the bad guys to figure out a way to get around the procedures. Like the shoe issue. I can tell you FOR A FACT YOU ARE REQUIRED TO TAKE YOUR SHOES OFF—PERIOD. Unless you can’t for medical reasons—period. Get over it. Until some kind of new technology that doesn’t offend someone can be developed that’s the way its going to be.
Those of you that complain that TSA caused them to miss a flight because it took 20 minutes to get through screening well you need to get a wristwatch. EVERY airline will tell you to get to the airport AT LEAST 90 minutes prior to your flight and on holidays even earlier. I have seen it time and time again where a passenger will arrive at the airport 30 minutes prior to their flight and expect to make it through check in AND security in that time AND stop and talk to their friends and family. And THEN they blame TSA for missing their flight. I have no sympathy for you. Get to the airport on time. TECHNICALLY most airlines are suppose to deny you even getting on the plane if you get their 20 minutes before it leaves and most can give away your seat 30 minutes prior to the flight if you haven’t checked in. Take some responsibility for getting their on time.
Those of you that complain that there are supposed to be comment cards at every airport—who told you that? I’ve worked at 7 different airports over the last 6 yrs and have only seen comment cards at one airport and they were put their at the airports expense. There is a way to comment without cards too. I would have thought that those of you that use this blog would have figured out that the TSA website will allow you to do this.
Those of you that are against the millimeter wave machine need to do a little research into what it actually does. You don’t see nude bodies. It looks more like a full length body stocking. And the images are deleted immediately and not kept on any hard drive for people to use later. I would be willing to bet you have more pedophiles in your neighborhood than in all of TSA. And we are not going to “just pull aside the attractive people” because right now its all voluntary. Maybe later it will be everyone but then I look for all the liberal “I want my rights” groups to get that canned.
And as one of the “clowns” that screens you I apologize for the treatment you received at that one airport but please don’t put all of us in that same boat. Every profession, including yours if you think about it, has jerks and idiots. I can tell you the vast majority of us are not like that. But YOU aren’t the one that has to put up with every other passenger being rude or even mildly violent and verbally abusive. I was always taught that you “Get more flies with honey than vinegar”. Maybe if YOU (the passengers) were a little nicer to the TSO’s they WOULD treat you better. But when we see all the vile and uncalled for posts on places like this blog what do you expect? Oh that’s right you want to get rid of TSA so that there is NO airport screening. If that were to happen I would NEVER fly again.
And those of you that complain that we leave your liquids open well that is probably incorrect. If your liquids are in your check in bags the most likely reason they spilled into your luggage is because of the change in pressure in the hold or cabin as you climb to altitude. This causes the bottle to expand and contract and possibly loosen the cap. I have had pens explode in my pocket because of this. Don’t jump to conclusions when you are trying to lay blame for something. Pack your liquids in zip top bags for extra piece of mind.
Handgun permits are not on the approved list of ID’s even if they look EXACTLY like your drivers license. I know because I have one. Is it REALLY so hard for you to get out your drivers license. That and a passport are the most “used” forms of ID.
And I STILL don’t understand those of you who object to showing ID. Maybe YOU aren’t a bad guy but what about the guy/gal sitting next to you? Do you want to sit next to a wanted fugitive or terrorist? I don’t. What about those pedophiles some of you keep talking about? You say that your child might be viewed by a pedophile using the millimeter wave technology but you object to us looking for a passenger who might be wanted somewhere for the same reason. I don’t get your reasoning. If you have done nothing wrong what is wrong with showing your ID? TSA has actually helped capture quite a few fugitives.
DITTO to you hsvtso—I couldn’t have worded your comments better myself.
Those of you that complain that we don’t pack your bags EXACTLY the way we found them—get over it. There is no way I’m going to remember exactly how each bag is packed every time. I do try my best to do it that way but its not always possible. And believe it or not SOME of the disarray happens when then the airline personnel are tossing your bag around to get it into the plane.
FYI—peanut butter is a spread just like jelly or jam and is part of the liquid ban in carry on luggage. This does NOT mean you can’t bring your PBJ sandwich through the checkpoint. You just can’t bring the jar.
Several people have stated that their bags were opened and things were “stolen” by TSA people. How do you know this? Did you see them take it? Believe it or not TSA is not the only agency that touches your bag. The baggage handlers touch bags a lot more often than TSA does especially in the larger airports. This is because with the inline systems being used only about 10% of bags are actually handled by TSO’s. Just because there is a TSA notice inside your bag doesn’t mean TSA stole your candy bar. Or could YOU have eaten it and just forgot? Or maybe that shirt or camera is actually hanging in the closet at home.
And PLEASE people---start reading the signs at the airport and listening to the announcements. They actually give you the information about 3-1-1 and other things so you don’t come to the checkpoint with the 32oz can of hairspray or your hair solon size shampoo bottle. TSA has a very good website that explains a lot things. Try looking at that instead of reading about Paris Hilton or Lindsay Lohan on the internet for a change—you might actually learn something.
August 4, 2008 1:54 PM
It's nice to know that the stuff confiscated from passengers is given away to the homeless shelters, hope the people there don't blow themselves up with all the dangerous material they receive from TSA.
August 4, 2008 5:46 PM
TSA, I started traveling for a living in April of 2000 with a minimum of 2 flights a week. I wear steel toed shoes because of job requirements and don't really care to haul around additional footwear due to baggage weight reasons. I got additional screening all of the time due to those shoes. Taking off the shoes got me strange looks before the Richard Reid (sp?) incident. Not a real big deal at the time. I was in Chicago during 9/11 and stayed there for an additional week after air travel resumed. People who traveled through O'hare (aka the airport from hell) then can testify to just how busy they were.
Then screening kicked in, both at the 'sterile' area and at the gates. Due to short time between making a reservation and flying I got the SSSS treatment at both the sterile area and at the gate. For connecting flights I never left the sterile area and still got the 'treatment' at each boarding area. One time I got the treatment four times in one day, while struggling to find a place for carry on baggage (laptop bag). I had the front of my jeans rolled down in public in an effort to ascertain I was weapon free. The rivets on my jeans set off the hand held device making emptying papers and wallet from my pants. My wallet was gone through several times by TSA even though it never alarmed. I had bare arms patted down and wondered just why they bothered to pat down bare arms.
The pat downs were intrusive and they were done by both males and females. The last straw was when I traveled home from an operation with a fresh 12 inch incision stapled together and covered in a translucent bandage. I got selected for the SSSS treatment again, was in a wheelchair because standing for a long time caused dizziness. Got wanded and failed due to the 20-30 staples. That set off the TSA type wanding me. Out of the wheelchair, teetering, and nauseous, the 'treatment' got serious. My wife attempted an intervention and the TSO screamed at her "STAND BACK". I lifted up my shirt to show the incision and told the screener that I was about to fall over, puke up my breakfast and for him to hurry up his screening lest he wear my stomach contents. A fast pat down across my back, returned to the wheelchair, and a late run down to the gate we made the flight.
I've experienced the excesses first hand by TSA and don't like them at all. When going through the screening process it often is with furled brow, slightly upset, while waiting for some new insult to either my person or belongings from my government. TSA you put me on the defensive.
Seeing the 'we have the authority to confiscate anything' but don't do it, finally being admitted to by TSA is a step forward. Now as to limiting TSAs authority and making them responsible when will that happen?
I still fly 2 or more times a week, know the routine, and do speak out when the direction of screening begins going bad. Right now TSA may be making changes, but until people stop having things allowed to them 'confiscated/abandoned/surrendered' by TSOs who apparently neither care about SOP nor the written processes ,you will have a person who you, TSA won't make happy.
Are all TSOs obnoxious? Nope, my issues, for the most part, are with the organization. I've met some very good professionals working for TSA, while on the other end met some screeners who should have been fired on the spot for gross incompetence.
Stop dancing around the issues. Be honest with the American people and don't try hiding behind the SSI, because after a while we figure out what you're hiding.
August 6, 2008 7:46 PM
Those of you that complain that we don’t pack your bags EXACTLY the way we found them—get over it. There is no way I’m going to remember exactly how each bag is packed every time. I do try my best to do it that way but its not always possible.
Hmmm, going through security and having TSOs trash the contents of my laptop bag (lots of transformers, several hard drives, cables and adapters) then telling me to repack it gripes me to no end. You're not cops who can toss someone's house/car/belongings with near total immunity. You go into someone's luggage, you owe it to them to properly repack that luggage. I won't get over it and do complain when your coworkers shove a messed up bag across the table at me. Your attitude reflects the contempt for the traveling public that we the traveling public often witness first hand.
We don't like it at all. I've flown for over 8 years and infrequently seen containers 'open' up due to air pressure differences. The funny thing is that some of those containers were screw top and managed to open by themselves. Usually screw top containers don't 'open' by themselves. A large pressure differential has those containers popping their tops, not unscrewing. Also, the pressure differential less than a few PSI since the baggage compartment never gets anywhere near a hard vacuum. That means that someone was messing around with the traveling public again. Baggage handlers? Unlikely. Vengeful TSO who wants to mess around with a person? Possibly, since TSA could do the damage single handed.
August 6, 2008 10:15 PM
airline shouldn't imposed $15 fine for first checked bag. The fee should include in the ticket instead of making us paying for it. Unfortunaly TSA doesn't have any control over the airline so you guys can complain the airline instead of TSA
August 7, 2008 2:12 PM
Respond to Tyler:
Lines at Denver are close maybe because they don't have enough people to man those lines. TSA are only authorize to hired a certain amount of TSO. They don't have an unlimited account to pay for everything. So, even there are long lines they still can't do anything about it.
The new system black/green doesn't really work. Most people refer to go to the shorter lanes doesn't matter what. TSO can't make people go, they can suggest or ask but its still up to them if they want to go or not.
Body position is a hard topic. Unless you can find a new position and suggest to TSA then there are no other position that can get into the armpit to see if the passenger are hiding something there.
August 7, 2008 2:21 PM
Miller, its folks like you who will accept NO explanation other than what YOU think has happened that makes those of us who are dedicated hard working TSO's become frustrated with passengers. We offer to allow YOU to repack your bag because we are required to. All YOU have to do is POLITELY say that I can go ahead and repack it for you. But that is NOT what usually happens. The passenger is ticked off because we even have to touch his/her bag because they are POSITIVE they have done everything correct. What part of "3-1-1" don't you understand? How many signs around the airport telling you EXACTLY WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, do you need? And, of course, YOU are not a terrorist and WE should be able to tell that. If someone can tell me how to ID a terrorist ON FIRST SITE please let me know. I can assure you that you will become a millionaire overnight because we have been looking for a way to do that for years.
I can tell you as a retired police officer that I would have arrested a lot of passengers if I had been treated that way when I was a cop. We have things thrown at us every day, we are cursed at and even spit on not to mention villified on blogs such as this. But we are supposed to smile and say "Thank you sir--have a good day"
I have seen people post such things as "What good is TSA doing?"
My answer to that is HAVE ANY MORE PLANES GONE DOWN? Since the answer is NO then I would have to say we are doing something right.
And its not just the TSO that you see at the checkpoint. It is the "layers" of security that Mr. Hawley keeps talking about that I will NOT go into here.
YOU are the typical person that thinks that NOTHING should be kept from the public and that TOP SECRET, SECRET and SSI are silly and somehow it violates your rights that we won't tell you everything. Eventually almost all information gets out somehow but we have to TRY to keep those things that we can away from the bad guys so they won't hurt this country anymore.
Part of my job when I was in Law Enforcement was Criminal Intelligence and it included dealing with groups such as Al Quida and YOU have NO idea to what ends these people will go to bring down the USA.
They are now using women, children, old people and mentally retarded people to carry out their bombings. And yet people like you keep telling us that screening old people, woman, children, and disabled people is ridiculous and uncalled for. Thank god it hasn't happened here. And I would like to think that TSA is at least HELPING to keep this from happening.
Do we have some bad apples? Sure. But they are being weeded out. Maybe not as fast as you think but, as people like you like to say, we have to allow them their rights. You have no idea how hard it is to fire someone in this day and time. If all the "i's" aren't dotted and the "t's" aren't crossed then its either lawsuit time or the person MUST be retained because you violated their rights.
Miller, I truly believe we are doing a good thing for this country and that we have prevented further hijackings. Can I prove it? Nope. But can you prove that that stop sign at the corner has prevented a bad accident? Probably not but does that mean it shouldn't be there?
9/11 changed the world and our country forever which is what Bin Laden was trying to do. Even if he and his group never do another thing to us he has accomplished his task. He has made us afraid. But we are finding ways to mitigate this and one of them is doing everything we can to try to keep 9/11 from happening again. And thats what TSA's mission is and one that I'm proud to be part of.
August 7, 2008 3:26 PM
My answer to that is HAVE ANY MORE PLANES GONE DOWN? Since the answer is NO then I would have to say we are doing something right.
And its not just the TSO that you see at the checkpoint. It is the "layers" of security that Mr. Hawley keeps talking about that I will NOT go into here.
How many years do you have to go back before 9/11 to have a successful hijacking here in the US? They were common during the 60's but when Cuba shut the door by returning hijackers to the US the rate of hijacking went way down. Nice try though.
As to declassifying things, the government has a right to classify certain items. Making a filled out comment card SSI, strikes me as quite strange since it was filled out by someone who didn't have access to SSI, but magically it becomes SSI once filled out. Nice try on that one. FYI, I had a security clearance on several occasions, took the government's threat seriously and complied. I just wish that some of our past and current government officials took that threat seriously as well. Stealing classified material from the national archives should have resulted in a very long time in a small room.
One of the issues I have with TSA has to do with the expanding role TSA takes on while neglecting their primary roll. When TSA scores in the high 90s on the red team tests, across the nation then I will believe that you are doing your job protecting the traveling public. A 50 percent detection rate on the red team tests is a total failure. TSA had several years to get its act together, but continually fails. Instead of concentrating resources onto the primary goal (keeping weapons, explosives, and incendiary devices off of aircraft) TSA wastes resources on the shoe scare and the war on water. You've already had folks fly through security with modeling clay (an analog to plastic explosives) with wires shoved into it and did nothing to those people. TSA you've been probed and found wanting.
So much for protecting the traveling public.
Part of my job when I was in Law Enforcement was Criminal Intelligence and it included dealing with groups such as Al Quida and YOU have NO idea to what ends these people will go to bring down the USA.
Yes, I do know what ends they would go to in order to harm the US. Fortunately most of the terrorists plans fall apart due to poor planing, bad science (aircraft fuel burns instead of exploding), accidents, and poor comsec, and our press spilling its guts on intelligence gathering (i.e. telling everyone that we could track OBL by cell phone and satellite phone usage). I suspect that the next big attack on the US won't be on board an aircraft. When that happens what will the reaction be over at TSA? You've closed the barn door after all of the animals have run off into the woods.
August 7, 2008 6:34 PM
While enplaning in Denver, the Soviet TSA women wouldn't let me wear my wool hat through the metal detector. I asked if there was anything else that would be more humiliating; she didn't hear me the first time, and when she asked me to repeat it (in a manner suggesting I would be strip-searched for daring to challenge her), I said "nothing." I was livid and truly humiliated.
When I got home, I found the small pocketknife in my computer bag that I had misplaced on my trip. Hats are dangerous, but Swiss Army pocketknifes slide right through. I have ZERO confidence in TSA.
August 16, 2008 11:46 AM
See story:
http://www.abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5613502&page=1
Absolutely intolerable. The individual involved should be decertified as a TSO immediately, and AA should take the TSA to federal court to claim every last dime lost plus punitive damages for TSA's gross incompetence/negligence. Yes, TSA (and not just the employee) needs to be held accountable for their mismanagment and poor training practices that allow for incidents like this. IMO, TSA officers are not qualified to be on the flightline anywhere near an aircraft, and certainly not qualified to touch an aircraft in any form or fashon. TSA is putting your life and mine in jeopardy, and there needs to be no less than a congressional investigation into what happened and to put a stop to this nonsense. There must be a place for logic in airport security. Please, stick to screening passengers/cargo and stay off the ramp!
August 20, 2008 1:44 PM
Miller said:
"How many years do you have to go back before 9/11 to have a successful hijacking here in the US? They were common during the 60's but when Cuba shut the door by returning hijackers to the US the rate of hijacking went way down. Nice try though."
Actually I dont' know if "common" would be accurate but certainly more than happen now. But I think you have made my point here Miller. SOME kind of security was finally implimented during the 60's--as inept as it might have been. Up to 9/11 it was PRIVATE security companies that did all the screening that let all of these hijackings happen that you speak of. Not to mention they allowed 9/11 to happen also. Again can you point to one single hijacking or plane going down since TSA took over? I don't think so. To me that means we are doing something right.
Miller said:
"One of the issues I have with TSA has to do with the expanding role TSA takes on while neglecting their primary roll. When TSA scores in the high 90s on the red team tests, across the nation then I will believe that you are doing your job protecting the traveling public. A 50 percent detection rate on the red team tests is a total failure. TSA had several years to get its act together, but continually fails."
Miller I think you need to read the main page of the Evolution of Security Blog and the post titled "Covert Testing Results Critical to Security" which addresses testing and how things are deemed "failures". Part of that post says:
"GAO recommended that TSA include a line item in our database for "failures." One would assume “failure” means someone missed an IED, but in fact the failure could be in how a rule is applied, how a technology functions in a specific airport, or how a procedure requires follow-up on an alarm. Because of the vast amount of qualitative information recorded by testers, they write more detailed explanations of failures in a written report instead of a line item in a database. We did, however, concur with the GAO recommendation and have now added a category to the data base on failures in addition to the more detailed reports we’ll continue to do."
So the word "failure" here is misleading to the general public which is NORMAL given that the public usually gets its info from the biased press. I can tell you we do NOT miss over 50% of the fake IED's. But for security reasons I will not say anymore. Sorry if you feel like you deserve to know but thats the way it is. Maybe one of those biased news agencies will tell you.
I said:
"Part of my job when I was in Law Enforcement was Criminal Intelligence and it included dealing with groups such as Al Quida and YOU have NO idea to what ends these people will go to bring down the USA."
Miller said:
"Yes, I do know what ends they would go to in order to harm the US. Fortunately most of the terrorists plans fall apart due to poor planing, bad science (aircraft fuel burns instead of exploding), accidents, and poor comsec, and our press spilling its guts on intelligence gathering (i.e. telling everyone that we could track OBL by cell phone and satellite phone usage). I suspect that the next big attack on the US won't be on board an aircraft."
Here I will have to agree with you Miller. I am thankful the terrorists ARE so inept. I also think the next attack will be somewhere else--but thats ONLY my opinion. But does that mean we should stop trying to prevent another airline tragedy? Thats like saying we should remove all stop signs and do away with speed limits because ONE person has already caused an accident because of running a sign or speeding and it will never happen again. Should we put more effort into our ports and other forms of transportation? Absolutely. Securing our borders would be a big start but for SOME reason the powers that be keep dragging their feet on this issue. I have my own opinion as to why but I won't say here.
We are not all that far apart on how we think Miller. Do I think that some of our procedures need to change like the liquids and shoes? Absolutely. But I'm a small fry in this organization and they aren't going to listen to me.
I really and truly believe that TSA has at least CONTRIBUTED to keeping 9/11 from happening again. Because without us I KNOW it would already have happened again.
August 28, 2008 2:22 PM
Bubba wrote:
"I really and truly believe that TSA has at least CONTRIBUTED to keeping 9/11 from happening again."
Is that where you set the bar? We could think of many things that at least contributed to preventing a similar disaster from happening. But if the reduction in risk is small and the cost is large, it's still not worthwhile. Bubba, where is the cost-benefit analysis of TSA operations?
"Because without us I KNOW it would already have happened again."
How do you know that?
September 3, 2008 11:15 AM
Bubba:
"YOU are the typical person that thinks that NOTHING should be kept from the public and that TOP SECRET, SECRET and SSI are silly and somehow it violates your rights that we won't tell you everything."
And YOU are the typical person that has no idea what the security clearance nomenclature actually means. "SSI" is a TSA term for information that is deemed "sensitive". Unfortunately for their twisted logic, "sensitive" is not actually a level of security restriction. It can be released freely to anyone, even if they don't have a clearance. If they want to be sneaky about things, they should actually go through the work of getting them classified Secret or Top Secret...but that would require getting the goons security clearances, which is something that will never happen. They don't even trust their own employees, as the rest of you should not.
September 6, 2008 3:48 PM
Actually W.kamm I DO know what the different security clearances mean. I held a Top Secret Crypto clearance for years. I only used the acronyms to try to prove a point with Miller that MOST of you nay sayers on this blog think you deserve to know EVERYTHING about our procedures and you don't. And, hopefully, never will.
I said:
"I really and truly believe that TSA has at least CONTRIBUTED to keeping 9/11 from happening again."
Phil said:
Is that where you set the bar? We could think of many things that at least contributed to preventing a similar disaster from happening. But if the reduction in risk is small and the cost is large, it's still not worthwhile. Bubba, where is the cost-benefit analysis of TSA operations?
Sorry Phil I have no idea about "cost-benefit analysis". But if what we are doing saves even ONE life--to me its worth every penny. Ask the people who lost loved ones on 9/11 if you dont' believe me.
I said:
"Because without us I KNOW it would already have happened again."
Phil said:
How do you know that?
Can I give you a 100% guarantee that it would have happened? Of course not there are no guarantees in anything. But it would seem a certainty that if we had done NOTHING and just maintained the security that was in place at the time there would have been another incident--there still could be. But, again, do we take down all the stop signs and do away with speed limits simply because ONE person has already run the sign and violated the speed limit and it will NEVER happen again?
TSA is NOT just the folks at the checkpoint who you seem to think harrass you because they have nothing better to do. We have investigators and a whole lot of other people that help make the skies safe. I'm sorry you feel that we are out to just make you miserable but that is the furthest thing from my mind every day. If you take the time you will also see we find guns and knives almost every day. What are those people going to do with those guns and knives? Do YOU know? I don't. They tell us they "just forgot" but how in the world do you "forget" that you have a gun in your bag? Part of the problem is YOU only hear about it when the press thinks you need to know--like when a celebrity does it.
I will never convince you that what we do serves a usefull purpose. I can take comfort in the fact that I know I'm doing a good job and that YOU are but a very small percentage of people who write all the negativity on this blog.
September 7, 2008 3:30 PM
Oh dear here we go again. It's not the searching for knives and guns that is pissing off the travelling public, its the hassle that TSA is putting us through in confiscating bottled water,peanut butter etc and making us take off our shoes as though we were entering a mosque. But you just don't get it, do you?
September 7, 2008 4:12 PM
They tell us they "just forgot" but how in the world do you "forget" that you have a gun in your bag? Part of the problem is YOU only hear about it when the press thinks you need to know--like when a celebrity does it.
Or when one of your coworkers brings one to work and nothing happened to him.
I will never convince you that what we do serves a usefull purpose. I can take comfort in the fact that I know I'm doing a good job and that YOU are but a very small percentage of people who write all the negativity on this blog.
Yep. Pretty much all I want is for our government to do things permitted under the Constitution. Some of the things I've seen in the defense of the homeland really belong under the old East German Stazi, not in the US. When you see the way other countries do security screening you wonder why our great country still has screamers and schemers working in homeland security. Sad.
September 8, 2008 9:22 PM
Some interesting observations on traveling in the past year -
1. Traveling through Dulles or Reagan, not sure which, but definitely in DC, our nation's capital. A foreign national was told to remove the lap top from the bag. He failed to do so. The TSA screener then yelled louder. And louder. As though that would help the understanding. Foreign national was with wife and two kids and none spoke enough english to understand. This is TSAs welcome to America.
2. Traveling out of ABQ, i pointed to a screener and explained to my 4 year old son that she was a police officer and we had to listen to her. The officer then asked what I told my son. She informed me to not say that as TSA doesn't want children to be afraid. Note - She was yelling at me. Frankly, I am not sure who she was to be giving parenting advice while she was ignoring the monitor on the belt.
These are only two from a frequent traveler, but I am often ashamed at the behavior of the people who "protect" me. Interestingly enough, while a soldier I was always nice to the people whose country I protected and I was in far graver danger than Alburquerque NM.
September 9, 2008 2:09 PM
One report I read mentioned magnetic waves are involved in the scanning machines. I have not heard any reports about how the new scanning machines affect metal implants or pace makers and cameras. Does anyone know if there could be any harm to people with these conditions and equipment?
September 27, 2008 5:48 PM
Please explain the rationale for passengers still having to remove their smaller DVD player from its sleeve type carrying case when laptop computers no longer have to be removed under the same circumstances?
October 3, 2008 1:37 AM
My experiences throughout the US seem to bear out my hypothesis that smaller airports, for some reason or other, have better-mannered people than those at larger airports. For example, my worst TSA experiences were all at large hubs (ORD/DTW/etc) while my best TSA experiences were at smaller airports (BNA and smaller). Comments by TSOs here that identify themselves by airport seem to bear this out as well (for example, if DEN security is composed of people like Ronnie I will go out of my way to make sure I won't be going through there).
Worst TSA experience-
DTW (Detroit, MI). I got selected for a secondary and spent an eternity waiting for one of the TSOs to do the screening. Oh, and I was yelled at for trying to keep my bin from being rifled through by others (I no longer have my DS Lite).
Best TSA experience-
ITH (Ithaca, NY). My first time bumping into the "no snowglobes of any size" rule, and the TSO actually helped me get my baggage out of check-in, put my snowglobe in there, and get the bag back. That's what the TSA should be. If you wanted me to pick one airport to serve as a role model to all others, it would be this one.
October 9, 2008 8:01 AM
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