<DOC>
[106th Congress House Hearings]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access]
[DOCID: f:57169.wais]
OUR DRUG CRISIS: WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?
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HEARING
BEFORE THE
COMMITTEE ON
GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED SIXTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JANUARY 22, 1999
__________
Serial No. 106-12
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Reform
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.house.gov/reform
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE
57-169 CC WASHINGTON : 1999
COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM
DAN BURTON, Indiana, Chairman
BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York HENRY A. WAXMAN, California
CONSTANCE A. MORELLA, Maryland TOM LANTOS, California
CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut ROBERT E. WISE, Jr., West Virginia
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida MAJOR R. OWENS, New York
JOHN M. McHUGH, New York EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York
STEPHEN HORN, California PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania
JOHN L. MICA, Florida GARY A. CONDIT, California
THOMAS M. DAVIS, Virginia PATSY T. MINK, Hawaii
DAVID M. McINTOSH, Indiana CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, Washington,
JOE SCARBOROUGH, Florida DC
STEVEN C. LaTOURETTE, Ohio CHAKA FATTAH, Pennsylvania
MARSHALL ``MARK'' SANFORD, South ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland
Carolina DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio
BOB BARR, Georgia ROD R. BLAGOJEVICH, Illinois
DAN MILLER, Florida DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois
ASA HUTCHINSON, Arkansas JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts
LEE TERRY, Nebraska JIM TURNER, Texas
JUDY BIGGERT, Illinois THOMAS H. ALLEN, Maine
GREG WALDEN, Oregon HAROLD E. FORD, Jr., Tennessee
DOUG OSE, California ------
PAUL RYAN, Wisconsin BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont
------ ------ (Independent)
------ ------
Kevin Binger, Staff Director
Daniel R. Moll, Deputy Staff Director
David A. Kass, Deputy Counsel and Parliamentarian
Carla J. Martin, Chief Clerk
Phil Schiliro, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing held on January 22, 1999................................. 1
Statement of:
Babetts, Jeanette............................................ 126
Berger, Bill, accompanied by Marian Berger; and Michael
Johnson, accompanied by Mary Trotter, executive director,
House of Hope.............................................. 8
Cook, Colleen................................................ 119
Cooper, Tinker, Orlando, FL.................................. 116
Dyer, David.................................................. 128
Goodwin, Tony................................................ 127
LaBarge, Marjorie J., senior administrator, student
assistance and family empowerment, Orange County Public
Schools; Mary Trotter, executive director, House of Hope;
Larry Visser, president, the Grove Counseling Center; and
Scott Perkins, former detective, Chimera Productions, Inc.. 88
Martinez, Bob, former Governor of Florida, former Director of
the Office of National Drug Control Policy; Don Eslinger,
sheriff, Seminole County, chairman, high intensity drug
trafficking area; and Vincent Mazzilli, Special Agent in
Charge, Miami field division, Drug Enforcement
Administration............................................. 26
Monroe, Sandra............................................... 126
Montaiuti, Christina......................................... 125
Pause, Mackenzie............................................. 118
Perkins, John................................................ 132
Pischetola, Vito............................................. 128
Smith, Debbie................................................ 133
Wilensky, Kerry.............................................. 120
Zagorec, Shirley............................................. 131
Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by:
Berger, Bill, prepared statement of.......................... 11
Dyer, David, information concerning methadone................ 130
Eslinger, Don, sheriff, Seminole County, chairman, high
intensity drug trafficking area, prepared statement of..... 32
Johnson, Michael, prepared statement of...................... 20
LaBarge, Marjorie J., senior administrator, student
assistance and family empowerment, Orange County Public
Schools, prepared statement of............................. 93
Mazzilli, Vincent, Special Agent in Charge, Miami field
division, Drug Enforcement Administration, prepared
statement of............................................... 44
Mica, Hon. John L., a Representative in Congress from the
State of Florida:
Additional statements for the record..................... 82
Drug summit comments of Tom Constantine.................. 64
Prepared statement of.................................... 5
Perkins, Scott, former detective, Chimera Productions, Inc.,
prepared statement of...................................... 106
Trotter, Mary, executive director, House of Hope, prepared
statement of............................................... 98
Visser, Larry, president, the Grove Counseling Center,
prepared statement of...................................... 102
Wilensky, Kerry, article dated November 9, 1998.............. 123
OUR DRUG CRISIS: WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE?
----------
THURSDAY, JANUARY 22, 1999
House of Representatives,
Committee on Government Reform,
Winter Park, FL.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:06 a.m., in
the Lake Howell High School, 4200 Dike Road, Winter Park, FL,
Hon. John Mica (chairman of the Subcommittee on Criminal
Justice, Drug Policy, and Human Resources) presiding.
Present: Representatives Mica and Ose.
Staff present: Sharon Pinkerton, deputy staff director,
Sean Littlefield, professional staff member; Amy Davenport,
clerk, Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy, and Human
Resources; and Michael Yeager, minority counsel, Committee on
Government Reform.
Mr. Mica. Good morning. I would like to call this meeting
to order. I am pleased to welcome each and every one of you to
this field hearing of the Committee on Government Reform of the
U.S. House of Representatives.
I am pleased to welcome from California my colleague, Mr.
Doug Ose, who is also a member of this panel for this field
hearing. We were to be joined by two other Members,
Congresswoman Brown from Florida and Congressman Souder from
Indiana, however, we brought back from Washington a terrible
head cold and a little bit of flu, but we are delighted that
Congressman Ose could join us from California today.
We will proceed with the hearing.
We are also joined here this morning, representing the
minority, Michael Yeager, minority counsel. We are pleased to
have him here.
I also appreciate the cooperation of our new ranking member
of the subcommittee, members from the minority side, who were
just appointed on Wednesday. Congresswoman Patsy Mink from
Hawaii, who I met with yesterday in Washington, is going to be
our new ranking member. Unfortunately, she could not be with us
today, however, she will be joining us in the future and I look
forward to working with Mrs. Mink on this important
subcommittee assignment.
We are also joined by our deputy staff director of the
subcommittee, Sharon Pinkerton.
This morning, we will begin the hearing, I will start with
an opening statement, then yield to Congressman Ose. We will
also submit any other statements for the record, then we will
go into our first panel of witnesses who have joined us.
Again, it is my pleasure this morning to welcome everyone
to this hearing. I would like to welcome our distinguished
witnesses and again thank those who have helped make this
hearing possible today, particularly Don Smith and the staff of
Lake Howell High School who have accommodated us to hold this
hearing in a very appropriate setting, and that is this high
school in our community.
In central Florida and many other communities of America,
we are facing an illegal drug epidemic. Illegal drugs have had
a devastating impact on our communities, our families and on
those who fall victims to their use. Too often here in central
Florida, our children are victims of heroin, cocaine and other
hard drugs. Just recently we have seen incidents where not only
our children but our law enforcement agencies have been
affected, even those who are in prison and behind bars now we
find have access to drugs in our community. So this epidemic
has reached every corner of our society and our community. That
is why I have chosen to undertake the chairmanship of the
subcommittee in Congress that is chiefly responsible for
oversight of our national drug policy. Until last month, this
subcommittee was the direct responsibility of our new Speaker,
Congressman Dennis Hastert who has assumed a very important
position of leadership and will closely monitor the work of the
subcommittee.
Today's hearing is the first in a series of hearings our
subcommittee will conduct to deal with the drug crisis in
America. We will hear from those in central Florida and across
the United States about how drugs affect the communities we
live in and the people we love. There is no question about it--
we started this campaign in our schools last year, and this
says it all, drugs destroy lives. It is a simple hard, cold
fact, and that is why I am personally committed to this fight
and why I am pleased to be conducting this first hearing in our
community.
For the record, the Drug Enforcement Administration
estimated that drugs snuffed out more than 14,000 American
lives last year. Most of those individuals were our young
people. We have seen that here in central Florida. Recent
reports show the number of deaths from heroin overdoses and
other hard drugs actually out-pace homicide. Some of you may
have seen that headline a few weeks past. Central Florida has
been ravaged by the effect of illegal drugs, there is no
question about it. Whether you talk to parents, teachers, law
enforcement officers or those running treatment programs--and
we will hear from some of those folks today--they will all tell
you the same thing, we have a very serious problem here in our
community and across the land.
Cheap, pure Colombian heroin and hard Mexican drugs,
together with deadly crack cocaine, methamphetamine and other
designer drugs are wreaking havoc on the lives of our children
and our families. These drugs feed into central Florida's crime
statistics and fray the very fabric of our society.
I cannot tell you how important I believe this issue is to
me, and I believe it is also critical to the future of our
Nation and our very society. That is why I have chosen to start
this first hearing here at home, and with this and other
hearings, we will collect the very best answers, the very best
information, examining what works and what does not work from
those of you who are on the front lines across America and
overseas that are in this battle. My hope is to craft
legislation and adopt measures that will deliver real
solutions.
Over the past 18 years, I have seen policies that have
worked and policies that have failed. Unfortunately, the threat
today is far more serious than it was 18 years ago when I first
became involved in this war on drugs, and unfortunately today
the solutions are even more elusive. As the new chairman of the
subcommittee, to which the Speaker will look for direction, I
am committed to finding real answers and effective solutions.
As an aside, I just returned from a worldwide conference on
drug abuse and crime in Vienna, Austria just a few days ago. It
was attended by the head of the United Nations' anti-drug
effort--his name is Pino Arlacchi--the British drug czar, the
leaders of the international law enforcement community,
including being accompanied to the meeting by the head of our
own United States Drug Enforcement Agency, Tom Constantine.
That conference was dedicated to molding a new transatlantic
approach to the heroin and hard-drug crisis. With this, and
many other international efforts, I believe we can work more
effectively in the international arena to attack our drug
crisis.
Let me say one last word about the enormity of the drug
threat. These hard drugs, heroin and cocaine especially, come
primarily from Colombia, Bolivia, Peru, and Mexico. We will
find a way to stop drugs at their source. I make that
commitment to you today. With this new assignment from the
incoming Speaker, it is my hope to enlist the leaders of these
countries in our anti-drug crusade. The poison that is being
produced in these nations should not reach the streets of
central Florida, America or any other nation. I believe that
with the correct policies and proper funding, we can take a
four-pronged approach, including eradication, enforcement,
education, and treatment.
In the last Congress, I worked to designate central Florida
as a high intensity drug traffic area, or what is termed HIDTA.
With that designation, we are bringing every possible resource
into central Florida to combat illegal narcotics trafficking.
Today we will receive an update on that effort.
To begin our planning for the national drug policy for the
coming year, I met this week in Washington with General
McCaffrey, who is the head of our national drug policy and also
our National Drug Czar. I am also pleased to announce here
today that General McCaffrey is permitting me to publicly
release--and he is simultaneously announcing it in Washington
this morning at 10 o'clock--that central Florida will receive
$2.5 million this year in funding for their HIDTA effort.
[Applause.]
Mr. Mica. So I think working together with the Drug Czar,
with international leaders, with Members of Congress and
others, we can make this program effective not only in central
Florida but throughout the Nation. As a Congress, we made some
progress last year through new legislation and funding for
anti-drug programs. Congress added hundreds of millions of
dollars to programs which were as diverse as education and
treatment and aid to enhancing our enforcement and interdiction
programs, but much more must be done. The truth, as we will
hear today from our distinguished witnesses, is that much more
can be done, and for the sake of our children much more must be
done. Drugs and America do not belong in the same sentence.
Illegal narcotics are not an American value, they have no place
in our society. That is why I am committed as this
subcommittee's new chairman to stopping the flow of drugs to
our cities, our towns, our schools, our communities and to
genuinely educating our young Americans about the great dangers
posed by drugs to them and to our entire society.
I thank you for your attention to my opening statement. I
am pleased now to yield to the gentleman from California, Mr.
Ose. You are recognized.
Mr. Ose. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[Applause.]
Mr. Ose. Let me preface my remarks by saying that central
Florida and this country enjoys a treasure in having you follow
Speaker Hastert's tenure as chairman of this subcommittee and I
am looking forward to working with you closely.
I come from Sacramento where we also have a drug problem in
the Third Congressional District. Our particular drug of choice
is methamphetamine and it is primarily manufactured in many of
the rural areas in some of the smaller counties of my district.
The impact of this is that in some of these smaller counties,
up to and exceeding 75 percent of the county district
attorney's caseload is directly related to drug use and abuse.
Long story short, I begged Mr. Burton to let me be on this
committee. I cannot tell you how pleased I am that you and he
consented to that. You said something in your remarks, your
direct quote was, ``we will find a way to stop drugs at their
source.'' I just want to repeat that, ``we will find a way to
stop drugs at their source.'' I yield back my time.
Mr. Mica. Thank you, Mr. Ose.
Again, we have other members--two other members who planned
to attend and are not able to be with us. They are at different
stages of this cold and flu. But without objection their
statements will be made a part of the record and in order, so
ordered.
[The prepared statement of Hon. John L. Mica follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.001
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.002
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.056
Mr. Mica.
We now have our first panel with us this morning in place
and I am pleased to welcome them. We have Mr. Bill Berger and
Mrs. Marian Berger. I happened to meet the Bergers at a dinner
in which they were honored by the Police Athletic League in
central Florida. The Bergers have taken one of the most
incredible personal tragedies that any parent could possibly
experience in losing their son to a drug overdose and they have
turned it into trying to educate and inform others about the
dangers of drugs. They are trying to turn their tragedy into
something meaningful for the young people in our community. I
was so impressed when they were recognized for their efforts
that I asked them if they would come and provide testimony this
morning. So, Mr. and Mrs. Berger, I want to welcome you both.
We also have Michael Johnson, who is a resident of the
House of Hope, involved in a private sector program. The House
of Hope, as many of you know, has been honored both by
President Reagan and by Governors and others throughout the
Nation for its efforts to aid those young people. They first
started out with just young ladies and now they have expanded
their operation not only from central Florida but beyond our
borders here, and also in dealing with young men. So they help
young men and women who have drug problems.
Now, I will--I see one other person there, Ms. Trotter. She
is the executive director of House of Hope. You are going to
testify in the third panel?
Ms. Trotter. Yes.
Mr. Mica. Let me explain to you that this is an
investigations and oversight subcommittee. Those of you who are
going to testify on this panel, I will ask you to stand and
swear you in. Will you raise your right hands, please.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Mica. Let it be entered in the record that the
witnesses testified and have sworn to the oath in the
affirmative.
Again, I am pleased to welcome you all. Thank you for
coming today and offering this testimony for our congressional
record. I think we will just start off and lead with you, Mr.
Berger.
STATEMENTS OF BILL BERGER, ACCOMPANIED BY MARIAN BERGER; AND
MICHAEL JOHNSON, ACCOMPANIED BY MARY TROTTER, EXECUTIVE
DIRECTOR, HOUSE OF HOPE
Mr. Berger. Thank you.
I would like to thank Chairman Mica and Congressman Ose, as
well as other members of this subcommittee, and of the panel
today for the opportunity to share our views on how we think
drug use is impacting our community and our State and what I
believe can be done to stop this plague.
I am sorry to say I am not pleased to be here. The reason I
am here is because on September 6, 1997, my son, Jason Alan
Berger, died of a heroin overdose. He was 22. Since that time,
my wife, Marian, who you will hear from shortly, and I have
received a shocking education on the widespread use of drugs,
but specifically heroin, throughout central Florida.
Over 300 of our son's friends came to his funeral. At that
time, God gave me the strength to speak at the graveside about
his life and death. I would like to share a little bit of that
with you.
He was a bright, handsome and very popular young man. An
honor student in school, a student athlete and a young man who
always made me proud to be his dad. We spent time together. He
loved to play cards, monopoly, shoot pool on our porch. We swam
together, took hikes together, raised money for charity as a
team. I was his soccer coach for 5 years. We had a very
positive and caring relationship. Jason was my best friend.
But when he was 15, he broke up with his girlfriend and it
broke his heart. He was depressed for several weeks, as I
suppose we have all been at one time in our teenage years, and
one of his friends repeatedly asked him to try LSD to help him
get through this terrible time. Although his background and
character and his family ties all told him no, he finally was
worn down and gave in, and within a week he became a failing
student in school. He changed his friends, he lost his interest
in almost everything but music. Today, I can tell you, these
are all telltale signs of drug use; then we thought it was just
a phase.
He eventually ran away from home and lived in the woods and
in vacant houses for 6 months. The sheriff's office brought him
home once. We hired private detectives and they caught him and
brought him home again, but he continued to run away. He did
not run away because he was unhappy at home, he ran away
because he knew how we felt about drugs and he could not
continue his drug life and still live there.
When he finally returned, he was able to graduate from high
school, but he was never a good student again. After years of
being in and out of trouble, he finally moved back home with us
after he graduated and worked as hard as he could to rebuild
his life. He held a job for 5 years and was very proud of his
work, but instead of being the architect that he always dreamed
of being, he was a busboy and had no thought of college or
self-improvement.
He moved out of our house in August 1997 and he was dead of
a heroin overdose within 2 weeks. He wanted so much for himself
in his younger years but drugs robbed the world of a very
talented, giving human being. Jason did not want to die, but
drugs took control of his life. He was able to go to work every
day, fool us at night into thinking he was doing OK and
function like any other 22-year old, but he was a recreational
drug user on and off for 7 years and it finally caught up with
him.
In his eulogy, I quoted some statistics that Orlando's
Channel 6 news had broadcast the night before we buried our
son. According to an independent survey, in 1997, 74 percent of
Seminole County high school students had either tried, bought
or sold drugs that year--74 percent; 46 percent of the middle
school students had the same experience, and over 20 percent of
all the people that were surveyed, over 20 percent had known
someone who had died of an overdose.
What can we do to stop this? People who care must get
involved. Marian and I spoke to every Seminole County DARE
graduating class last year sharing our story, but that reaches
only fifth graders. Middle school and high school students need
constant reinforcement to stay off drugs. Our son had the right
foundation, but at 15 there were no formal drug or anti-drug
programs in place.
More undercover investigators must be on the street. In the
Orlando Sentinel last week an article stated that $3 million
had been allocated for enforcement in central Florida but only
$1 million had been spent. If the fear of being caught and the
subsequent penalties were severe enough, why were 74 percent of
Seminole County high school students involved in drugs in 1997?
In a casual conversation with my son a few years ago, he said
that if you knew what to look for, you could buy drugs on every
corner in downtown Orlando any hour of the day or night.
The penalty for selling drugs and for killing a user with
those drugs must be severe. My wife Marian has collected
newspaper articles relating to heroin since Jason died. We have
20 articles from the Orlando Sentinel and the Sanford Herald in
the past year and a half. There was one in the paper again
today. If you read them closely, you will see a common thread.
First of all, obviously heroin is newsworthy. Almost all of the
headlines mention the word heroin. The penalties for selling
and killing are almost insignificant. Two articles in
particular show how severe death by heroin is treated. Pushers
arrested for selling the drugs that killed are indicted for
first degree murder by grand juries, then released on bonds of
$5,000, $10,000 and $25,000 respectively, all in these
particular articles by the same local judge, Judge Allen
Dickey. I guess I watch too much TV, but I always thought that
you could not bond out on a capital offense. Congressman Mica
said that drug deaths have surpassed homicides in central
Florida; sir, drug deaths are homicides.
Other common themes in these articles, one in particular,
is that the same dealers who are being allowed to walk the
streets almost always are repeat offenders. They go back to
their high paying jobs as drug sales people because the penalty
for getting caught for selling or killing with drugs does not
scare them enough. Sheriff Eslinger and his staff have
encouraged Marian and myself to stay involved in this fight.
What they do not know is we have no choice. Jason has pointed
us to this mission. We will continue to stay in the middle of
this fight for the rest of our lives, so that his life and his
death will not be without purpose.
Some of Jason's friends call on us from time to time, many
have learned from his mistakes but some continue to flirt with
death. We cannot be everywhere, we need help.
Thank you for being concerned enough to ask us here. Please
help us, and all the relatives and friends who have lost loved
ones, to stop this senseless loss of one more human being
because of drugs.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Berger follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.003
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.004
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.005
Mr. Mica. Thank you, Mr. Berger.
[Applause.]
Mr. Mica. I would like to now recognize Marian Berger.
Ma'am, you are recognized.
Ms. Berger. Thank you.
A couple of weeks ago Sharon gave us a call at home on a
Saturday and when I answered the phone----
Mr. Mica. If we can have those leaving exercise as much
restraint in talking as possible. Go ahead, Ms. Berger, you are
recognized.
Ms. Berger. Thank you.
As I was saying, a couple of weeks ago I received a call on
a Saturday morning and it was Sharon calling me from
Washington, DC. I was like, a call from Washington, very amazed
here.
Mr. Mica. Ms. Berger, I am not sure we are not going to get
an announcement here.
Mr. Ose. That is the break.
Mr. Mica. It is just the break. OK, go ahead and proceed. I
did not want you to be interrupted.
Ms. Berger. No problem. Anyway, she told me about this
hearing and asked if either Bill or I would be able to attend
or if we would like to attend. Well, it did not take but a
second thought and I told her both of us will be there. A week
or so later she let us know that what we were going to say
today had to be in writing, which kind of blew us away because
all of the talks we have had this past year and 4 months have
been from the heart and never had to have any notes. We somehow
managed to put this all down in writing so they could have it.
So bear with both of us because, as Bill did, and I will too,
we were reading because we do not want to miss anything. Again,
thank you for inviting us.
Before I start, I just wrote down some notes here. I want
to steal a phrase from John Negri, who is in charge of the DARE
program in Seminole County. He is the guy that keeps it going.
He used to say this at the end of my talks when I would talk to
the DARE graduation classes, and Bill's as well. And he asked
the fifth graders, he said what do you call it when a spouse
loses another spouse? It is widow or widower. What do you call
it when a child loses their parents? It is an orphan. And then
he said, what do you call parents who lose a child? The fifth
graders just looked and looked and no one could say anything.
He said there is nothing that you can say. There is no name for
it because it is not supposed to happen.
I am honored to be invited here to this hearing on drug
abuse and more personally on abuse of heroin. As Bill told you,
our son Jason died September 6, 1997, 22 years old. He
overdosed on heroin. The night before, he called his dad and
was really excited. He had a split-shift that afternoon and
called him to tell him he received his paycheck from the week
before and received a double paycheck because he worked double
time because he wanted money. He gave someone $250 that day to
put down on a motorcycle. He could not afford a car because he
had gotten a DUI the year before, and the DUI primarily was
caused because he was doing drugs and drugs affected the
alcohol. He felt really good about himself on that phone call.
He had moved out of the house and he had moved into an
apartment. He was going to become independent and make us
proud. Bill told me about that call. He called me--I was out of
town that afternoon--and he just could not believe the phone
call. Jason was so excited. He was so happy. Life was really
going great for him.
He also asked Bill if he could pick up the extra comforter
that we had for his new apartment that night. He worked very
late at the restaurant. It was probably 12 or 1 o'clock before
he got off. So we left his comforter in the garage and the next
morning when we awoke, we looked in there and the comforter was
gone. Later that afternoon on September 6th, Bill and I were
with friends at a restaurant--and I do not have to read this
part. My pager went off. I had just started a new job and told
these folks my pager is on 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. It
went off and I did not recognize the phone number. I called
that phone number and it was the Casselberry Police Department.
The officer on the other end of the phone introduced himself
and he said I'm sorry, Ms. Berger, I hate to tell you this, but
your son is dead. I thank God there were friends there with us
because that was the only way we both made it home.
Later that afternoon, a Casselberry police officer and a
CCI officer from Seminole County arrived at our home. They said
they were at the apartment when the paramedics were there. They
told us the little that they knew, but they did tell us Jason
was found on his bed. It was made, comforter on it. Jason
seldom made his bed at our house when he was living at home, he
was like, I think, many young people. But that tells you right
there that he did not want to die that night. If there was only
beer in that apartment, he would have gone to bed and awoke the
next day, but there was a drug dealer there that night and that
drug dealer sold my son heroin.
Jason, we knew from his confession the year before, had
tried drugs but now wanted to be free. He wanted to live a
beautiful, clean life. Heroin is a drug that we have found to
be recreationally addictive. No one knows when or if they will
die. When they use it, heroin can kill. Drug dealers need to be
stopped. These dealers have killed dozens of individuals who
did not want to die.
I read in last Sunday's paper the new drug task force has
arrested over 50 suspects selling drugs and about $1 million of
the expected $3 million, as Bill said, for 1999 has been
allocated. With this money available though, I do not
understand why the article also said that the law enforcement
officials need more money. This money could bring more manpower
and bring more arrests. It is obvious that the undercover
agents can find the dealers. What is stopping the extra
allotment of money to hire more agents?
Education is also mandatory. Bill and I spoke to over 2,000
fifth graders last year at their DARE graduation. We told them
our story about Jason in hopes that these students, as well as
their parents, would learn more about drugs and how it kills.
We also spoke to other groups and hope that these talks have
saved lives.
What we really would like to see is more deputies trained
for the Seminole County Sheriff's Department. If need be, use
part of the $3 million for this drug enforcement to hire and
train these deputies to target middle schools. These students
need to be reminded of what they learned in fifth grade. Too
much time passes between 11 years old and 15 years old. If all
this training were enforced when Jason was young, he might have
learned the danger of drugs. Most parents do not have the
education necessary to talk to their children about drugs.
Somehow these teens need to know that when they get upset about
something, do not let your friend convince you to try a drug.
This person is not a friend, nor is trying drugs the way to
solve the problem.
We have learned much since our son died about how drugs
change people. Jason even told me after he got out of jail for
that DUI and on that year's probation and he told us so much,
he said, mom, you look at someone in the eyes, if they are red
and the pupils are dilated chances are they are doing drugs. If
your teen suddenly wants to wear different clothes, they want
to color their hair, pierce their body or have a totally
different group of friends, talk to them, investigate the
changes. Don't think these changes are just a sign your teen
wants to rebel, the reason may be drugs. Periodically go
through their book bag, check their room closets, dresser
drawers and if they have a car, look inside. If they get upset
because they say you are intruding in their privacy, tell them
if there is nothing wrong, then it should not matter. You love
them, you want them safe. It is better to have your teen upset
with you than dead.
The last Christmas that Jason was with us, which was an
incredible time those few months. He was off drugs and he was
back the way he was many years before, just the most incredible
laughing fun person. Anyway, he gave us this Christmas card. It
was a special Christmas card, thanks to mom and dad, and it has
the usual verse. Hallmark does a wonderful job with their thank
you's. I would like to read what he wrote in it though, which
is the most important thing. And he printed in there these
words, ``I realize I have been a screw-up and not much of a
family member these past few years. Thank you for always
supporting me and never giving up hope. I hope I am now in a
change for the good in giving up my past life. I hope you like
the dog. It was a gift that I thought will keep on giving. I
love you guys lots and I am pretty sure Sampson will too. Thank
you again for everything.'' He did not want to die. When I look
at Sampson, our dog now that is about 75 pounds and was about
10 pounds when he gave it to us, I remember even more the love
that our son has for us, and I know still he has it. I pray
there will be a way to stop the selling of drugs and other
parents will not have to go through the pain that we have.
Since Jason died, we have been invited to speak to many
groups, interviewed on the news, on TV and quoted in the
newspaper, received a plaque from the Seminole County Sheriff
Department for a community service award, received a plaque
from DARE--from the DARE Association. We received the 1998
distinguished service award from the Seminole County Police
Athletic League, been filmed for a part in a TV series on drugs
that will hopefully be on TV this spring. We will continue to
talk and do whatever it takes. None of this has brought our son
back, nor will it ever bring our son back. We only hope that we
have saved lives and want to save more.
Thank you for inviting us to this hearing. We need to stop
the dealers. Thank you.
[Applause.]
Mr. Mica. I thank both Mr. and Mrs. Berger for your
testimony and for your participation as witnesses today under
very difficult personal circumstances, and also for your
recommendations.
I am going to now recognize Michael Johnson. Michael is a
resident with the House of Hope and involved in some of their
programs. Maybe you can convey to the subcommittee your
personal experience. You are recognized.
Mr. Johnson. I began to use drugs about--you know, whenever
I was about 12. I just started smoking weed at first. It was
just what kids were doing. I was in middle school. That is
where I started at. That was my first time. I got out of
control because I have got a background of addictive
personalities and stuff like that. By the ninth grade, I had
decided I was going to quit school. I knew not to go to harder
drugs because I've heard stories like these about heroin and
cocaine and crack and stuff, and then on top of that, I have
seen the heads that were on the drugs. But it became expensive
anyway because I wanted to, you know, do the drugs I used all
the time, so I started stealing. I would like rob people and
stuff, other drug dealers, then I began to sell drugs. Around
here in Seminole County--I live in Orange County, but in
Seminole County around here, it is a very, very big area. We
lived over in Redline Apartments in a place in Country Lane
where we stayed at. I mean it is big, it is big stuff. Then
people would be killing each other too, you know, with the
selling drugs around here.
I got involved in it too much and eventually I got caught
by the police. With no charges they put me in a detox because
my dad, he said--he knew I needed help because I was stealing
his money and leaving our house and taking off. They put me in
detox and then the detox said he needs help. They put me in a
program, which is a government program, and it could not
control me and I took off from there. I ran away and went out
to do drugs more. I ended up catching charges that were going
to put me in jail. I decided, you know, to think in my right
mind for one, you know, day at least and decided to go back to
the program and get help.
When I got there, I wanted to get help but I could not. I
could not like, receive it. I do not think--I do not know, it
was just--what they were offering me was not quite doing it,
and then on top of that, the kids were bringing heroin into the
program. I was sitting here in the program trying to get
straight with three third-degree felonies. You know, trying to
get off, you know, the street and, you know, have a
relationship with my father and the rest of my family and stuff
and it just was not working out.
The heroin--also, I have such an addictive personality that
I was hooked on it right away. You know, you can only get so
much. They could only leave the program for 1 day on a pass and
they would come back with 10 packs of it. That is $10 worth of
it. It is just a little bit, you know. And when you get
tolerance to it, you will start having to snort more. I got
real addictive, I stole this other kid's in the program and he
wanted to fight me. That caused me a big problem because I got
a knife and I was supposed to, you know, fight with this kid
with the knife. I mean, you know, 16 guys living in a place,
with us out of control, and all they do is tell you you need to
quit drugs. They do not tell you--they tell you why, but it is
all like real sketchy. They give you such a worldly like view
of why, the reason why society wants you to quit drugs and
stuff like that. I ended up getting arrested in there with that
knife and I'm a third degree felony. All I wanted to do was do
drugs.
I know where to get heroin around here. I can go get heroin
right now. I can go get cocaine right now, go get crack right
now. I can go get any drug you want right now. I am not about
that any more. I am not saying I am still about that. I was
ready to go out and do that, then my dad put me in this other
program because I was--you know, it was very, you know,
whatever you want to say, evident that I was doing drugs. You
know, I was whacked and I was showing it because I knew I
needed help because I was scared. I knew I wanted to go get
more heroin because I had already gone through the 3-day
withdrawal. That's why I had the knife because it makes you
angry whenever you quit. It's really hard to quit heroin. It
takes like 3 days of just straight sleeping. You do not go to
school, you do not do anything.
I came to this Christian program, the House of Hope. To me,
it is like a correction facility, the House of Hope, because
they just tell you what you need to know to get off of it. They
give you all of the information that you need and they counsel
your family and you. They have been bringing me up. I have been
off of drugs for 9 months by my own will. I did choose to quit
and when I get out of the program I can chose to go back to it,
but now I am so like--I have been taught so much. But see, it
was not that I was just taught something, I was taught the
right thing about, you know, my life and stuff and about why I
am here. I am not here to do crime and sell drugs and just make
money on this. You know, I am here to serve God and that is
basically what I have been learning. I can go into detail and
talk for like 7 hours on what I know. I am kind of being
rehabilitated, you know.
Mr. Mica. Michael, we will not give you 7 hours today.
[Laughter.]
Just kidding. We appreciate your testimony. Did you have
anything else you wanted to add?
Mr. Johnson. Yeah, I do have something I want to add to
that. She was saying drug dealers, they need to get off the
street. I used to sell drugs and my best friends sold crack
cocaine. You know, they drove Lincoln Town Cars. You know, the
money thing, it's like yeah, we have got money, we are bad. We
are drug dealers. That is how they will be thinking. What needs
to happen--see, my charges got dropped. I did not have any drug
charges because I was smart. She said more investigators out
there, just nail everybody, just lay them out. I can get away
with it, you know. I can get away with selling drugs, it is
not--you do not have to--I was burned to death man, I could
not--you know, I was in low math and everything in school when
I went back, and I could get away with selling drugs. You just
got to have about this much intelligence (indicating) to be out
there doing that. If you want to take it further, then you will
be able to sell larger amounts of drugs, pounds and that sort
of thing.
I think they need to start--do some kind of little--I do
not know, some kind of tactical force thing or something. I do
not know. You know, like come out and just sweep them out, you
know what I am saying, because it is all over the place. They
make themselves available too. I mean, I made myself available
many times and I know--see, I was not--I knew that. My friends
have been to jail and I knew that you do not go there for a
long time. You get to kind of escape and learn a little bit
while you are there, but see, also, I think they need to
increase, you know, the years that you spend. Then also, when
you get to the correction facility, make sure that they are
offering you the right thing, because when they get out they
are going to go right to the same thing.
Anyone who is on drugs knows they need help, so you guys
need to be able to offer the right help and that is what the
House of Hope is offering me. To me it is a Christian thing, it
is about Christ, that has been offered to me. The way I
understand his life to be and how to get off. I do not know
what you all think about that, but that is what I have got to
add.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Johnson follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.006
Mr. Mica. Thank you for your testimony. I am going to start
a little round of questions here. I will come back to you in a
second, Michael.
One of the things I heard you testify to, Mr. Berger, is
that the disparity in time that is spent in jail, and also
penalties and bonds for individuals. I think you relayed that
in your individual case the individual was--I think was
identified that sold your son drugs. What was the situation
with his bond or penalty?
Mr. Berger. It took a year of investigation to arrest him,
although we had testimony from day one that he had sold the
drugs and he actually was in the apartment that night and his
girlfriend testified drugs were under the bed and another user
was there with him. So it took a year for them to nail down the
case. A grand jury indicted him for first degree murder; he
spent 30 days in jail and at a bond hearing he was released on
$25,000 bond because, according to his attorney, the family did
not have the ability to pay. The father is a prominent
attorney. I am really confused about that one.
Mr. Mica. Has he been tried or is he out now or what?
Mr. Berger. We are awaiting trial right now.
Mr. Mica. Awaiting trial, but out on $25,000 bond.
Mr. Berger. He not only is out on $25,000 bond, the judge
at the time said he would release him on bond as long as he
stayed in the home except to go to drug treatments, church or
work. We since have been trying on a regular basis to determine
who monitors that and it has become obvious no one does. So he
is doing whatever he used to do right now as we are speaking.
Mr. Mica. Ms. Berger.
Ms. Berger. What they told me--I had called the Victim
Services--I mean some of the people were at the courthouse that
day and I said can you find out for me what part of the
sheriff's, police department, whatever, is supposed to be
checking on this young man, because that was--I mean it was
quoted in the newspaper, everywhere, part of the bond was to
stay at home. This lady that has been talking to me has been
searching everywhere and this has been 2 weeks. I expected to
get a call from her yesterday. No one knows, and I am wondering
who Judge Dickey thinks is checking on this young man and
keeping him at home instead of out partying and selling more
drugs. We have heard that sometime in March, the attorneys will
go back before the judge and find out what date the trial will
start. So it will not be before April at the earliest.
Mr. Mica. Well given your terrible personal experience, if
you were--in fact, you are today advising Members of Congress.
Where do you think we should best place our dollars as far as
enforcement, treatment programs, education, interdiction, the
whole spectrum of trying to get a handle on this. How would you
approach this based on your experience, Mr. Berger?
Mr. Berger. I think the first place we have to look is
additional education at a higher level than fifth grade. Kids
at the fifth grade--it is a wonderful foundation for no drugs
in the future, but they are not tempted in the fifth grade.
Temptation comes when they are 14, 15, 16, 17 years old and
begin to think of themselves as adults. Drug dealers focus on
middle school and high school students, but we are educating
the elementary kid schools. So education in higher grades is
the first place.
Second, undercover enforcement is what is going to keep
kids from selling drugs. Right now, they do it, 74 percent do
it. This young man right here says he can walk out of here and
find drugs. I bet you could find it in 2 minutes. They do it
because they have no fear of being caught, and if they do get
caught, they have no fear of the penalties, because they are
juveniles in most cases that are selling it. So as long as the
penalty for doing the crime is not severe enough or the
possibility of getting caught is not severe enough, they are
going to continue to sell drugs. So we need to make first
degree murder charges first degree murder charges. We need to
make dealing drugs a felony with automatic jail time and we
need to have lots of undercover people in the schools and on
the streets grabbing----
Ms. Berger. And downtown Orlando.
Mr. Berger [continuing]. These kids, taking them to jail
with no possibility of getting back tomorrow to sell drugs
again, which is where they are right now.
Mr. Mica. Ms. Berger.
Ms. Berger. What I also feel about that though, if they are
arrested and it takes a year to--I mean it takes a year to get
them arrested, they need to know they need to stay in jail.
There should be no bond. When the trial comes and if the trial
and the jury or whomever decide that there is not enough
evidence to keep them in jail that is one thing, but I cannot
fathom someone who is arrested for first degree being now on
the streets waiting again months to see if he is even going to
be in jail. That has got to stop.
Mr. Mica. Michael, you have been in, it sounds like,
several types of programs and your recommendation, as I
gathered, was to have a program that is tough and meaningful
but also compassionate. In your case, the secular program did
not work as well as the faith-based program. You also seem to
indicate the same thing that the Bergers did, that we need to
really get tough on enforcement. Now that might mean in your
case you might have spent some more time in jail or some
serious jail time. Are you saying that's what we need to do?
Mr. Johnson. Yeah, but at the time I would not have said
that. [Laughter.]
That is the dead truth.
Mr. Mica. So when there is no enforcement, young people
think you can get away with it and go back and do it again.
When the program has a lot of flexibility and laxness and no
real core, it does not work as well, is that pretty much your
experience?
Mr. Johnson. That is exactly what it is.
Mr. Mica. How old are you?
Mr. Johnson. I am 17.
Mr. Mica. And you started when? How old were you?
Mr. Johnson. Twelve.
Mr. Mica. Twelve. And it has been 9 months since you have
been off of drugs?
Mr. Johnson. Yes.
Mr. Mica. And what did you use?
Mr. Johnson. Excuse me?
Mr. Mica. What drugs did you use?
Mr. Johnson. Well my favorite drug was weed. I smoked weed;
I drank lots of alcohol; I ate a lot of pharmaceutical pills, I
do not know if you know anything about that. I used heroin in
the program. I smoked crack one time and I did not like it, it
made me crazy. So I did not do that anymore.
Mr. Mica. So you have tried a wide range of illegal drugs.
You also said throughout our community--are all of these--is
marijuana just available or a variety of all the hard drugs?
What is available?
Mr. Johnson. Well, you have got to get deep into it to be
able to get good drugs. Like, if you are just some kid who just
wants it, you know, straight off the street, you want to buy $5
worth of weed, you are surely not going to know where to get
heroin unless people are just blatantly stupid about offering
you drugs. That does happen sometimes.
Mr. Mica. And 9 months ago is the last time you dealt in
drugs. In talking to your friends and in the program, is there
much of a change? We put $1 million in here and we have beefed
up enforcement, have you heard of any change or are we still
about where we were from talking to your friends?
Mr. Johnson. I am not really allowed to talk to anyone out
there, but I know they are still doing the same thing. The kids
who are out there are oblivious to what is going on right now.
I think they need to be made aware though. You know, saying we
are coming to get you. And have people that know what they're
talking about, who have done drugs, talk to them too because
they do not--I think they are oblivious to it. I have still got
friends that I see when I go on passes from the program, they
come up, Michael, what is up man, what are you doing? You know,
do you want to come out and chill? It is going down tonight.
You know, come out to the party and whatever. No, I do not do
that anymore, man. I sit there and I make them aware myself,
but they are basically oblivious to what is going on.
Mr. Mica. Thank you for your testimony.
I am pleased now to yield to my colleague, the gentleman
from California, Mr. Ose.
Mr. Ose. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Michael, educate me, if you will, you said you could walk
out of here and quickly acquire drugs. I do not doubt that.
What do you look for? What are the characteristics of that?
Mr. Johnson. Well it is about who you know. I can probably
go on Lake Howell's campus right now and talk to somebody out
here and get a bag of weed. I think these kids know that
probably. I do not know if you guys know that. It is not funny,
it is the truth. I went to Winter Park High School and it is
drug-ridden. They have got cops in there that search you at the
drop of a dime if you do one thing wrong. I mean, you know, you
have just kind of--you have got to get into the scene and that
is how you become oblivious to reality. You are just in that
life and you think you are just something bad, you know, but
you are really not. You are just living waiting to get killed,
arrested or you are going to quit. Those are your three
options.
Mr. Ose. When you buy drugs, are you buying it from an age-
group peer or somebody older, somebody younger or does it vary?
Somebody who goes to school with you, somebody from another
neighborhood?
Mr. Johnson. Well there is not really an age group, like
big drug dealers do not go to school. Like kids--will be
pushing whatever, ounces or something--will be in the schools
doing their work trying to get an education--there is no--it is
not like you only go to the seniors to buy some dank, if you
want some dank--you know, sometimes it is sophomores, could be
freshmen, you know.
Mr. Ose. Your point is that it is everywhere.
Mr. Johnson. Excuse me?
Mr. Ose. Your point is that it is everywhere.
Mr. Johnson. Yeah, it is everyone and everywhere if they
have got knowledge of the street, and that is about what it is
right there.
Mr. Ose. Mr. and Mrs. Berger, I do not know what to tell
you. I cannot even imagine what you went through.
Ms. Berger. Jason, 6 months before he died asked if we
would pay for a tandem jump for his birthday. He went up in
those clouds and we could not see anything of that airplane,
but he came down. This time he is up in those clouds and he is
not coming down. I do not know--I mean, we do not know--we do
not know the logistics of things, but those undercover agents,
they seem to find people. I think we have more headlines of not
just people dying from it, but headlines of every week an
undercover agent caught another dealer, another dealer, another
dealer and another dealer. I mean, these headlines that I have
kept for a year, a year and 4 months, primarily they are of
some arrests, and then they are let go, but mostly of deaths. I
think there need to be more headlines of people being arrested
and put in jail and this needs to be on a very regular basis.
[Applause.]
Mr. Ose. Mr. Chairman, I yield my time back.
Mr. Mica. Thank you, Mr. Ose.
I want to again thank the Bergers for coming to be with us
today and for telling their story and also trying to make some
meaning and some purpose to your son's life who you have
tragically lost. By serving in our community, you have been
recognized for that service. We appreciate your bringing a
message, information to people who are not hearing that,
particularly young people, and the rest of the community. I
know how difficult it must be. Mr. Ose, we are going to hear in
the fourth panel more parents. We could--unfortunately we could
fill the stage here with parents who have experienced the same
tragedy and they will be testifying in our public panel, the
fourth panel. But again, I thank you for coming out and sharing
with us your story.
Michael Johnson, we have scores of Michaels in our
community unfortunately. Some of them are with us, and we are
pleased that you are a survivor in this horrible situation. We
wish you well and we thank you for your courage in coming
forward and being with us today and relating to the community
what is going on. Again, you all in this panel only represent a
sampling of what we are experiencing and how the lives of
individuals in our community have been affected.
So with that, I thank you for your testimony and I will
excuse this panel.
[Applause.]
Mr. Mica. I would like to now call the second panel. If the
witnesses from the second panel could come forward? The second
panel is entitled Drug Policy and Law Enforcement. Today we are
extremely pleased and honored to have with us as our first
witness a gentleman who is not a stranger to anyone in Florida,
the Honorable Bob Martinez, who is the former Governor of the
State of Florida. He was also the National Drug Czar, the
former Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy.
He has been a strong warrior in this effort and helped craft
some of our past State and Federal drug policy. We are
delighted that he has come over from the west coast where he
resides now and joined us.
We are also pleased to have Sheriff Don Eslinger. Everyone
knows him, of course, as the Sheriff of Seminole County, an
outstanding law enforcement leader who has also served as
chairman of the high intensity drug traffic area group. Again,
this area was designated by Congress as a HIDTA, high intensity
drug traffic area. We put initial Federal dollars into the
program last year and we will hear from Sheriff Eslinger where
we are now.
We will also hear in this panel Mr. Vincent Mazzilli. Mr.
Mazzilli is the Special Agent in Charge of the Miami Field
Division of the National Drug Enforcement Agency.
So those are our three panelists. I welcome the panelists.
I also will repeat what I have said to the others, that this is
an investigations and oversight subcommittee of Congress and
for that purpose we will swear our witnesses in. If you would
stand gentlemen and raise your right hands.
[Witnesses sworn.]
Mr. Mica. Welcome this morning. We are so pleased to have
you with us. These panels are not packed to the extent where we
have to use the 5-minute enforcer, but as you may know from
previous testimony before panels in Congress, we will allow
extensive remarks or materials to be added to the record. I am
pleased first to recognize the Honorable Bob Martinez. Governor
Martinez, as I said, was our National Drug Czar. We are so
delighted that you took time to be with us. This high intensity
drug traffic designation does run from Tampa across the center
of the State and up through the very core of central Florida.
As a resident of that community, I know of your concern and we
know of your tremendous work as our National Drug Czar. So with
those opening comments and remarks, I am pleased to recognize
you, Governor, and welcome.
STATEMENTS OF BOB MARTINEZ, FORMER GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA, FORMER
DIRECTOR OF THE OFFICE OF NATIONAL DRUG CONTROL POLICY; DON
ESLINGER, SHERIFF, SEMINOLE COUNTY, CHAIRMAN, HIGH INTENSITY
DRUG TRAFFICKING AREA; AND VINCENT MAZZILLI, SPECIAL AGENT IN
CHARGE, MIAMI FIELD DIVISION, DRUG ENFORCEMENT ADMINISTRATION
Governor Martinez. Congressmen, Mr. Chairman, members of
the committee, I am delighted to be here at your invitation. I
want to congratulate you and the committee for making this a
priority to listen to the community, to listen to those who are
in fact involved with law enforcement, to get ideas, to
identify the problems and hopefully to make the necessary
recommendations that again will make the effort to reduce the
use of drugs significant in this country.
As you indicated, I am the former mayor of Tampa where I
now live, my home city; Governor of Florida and Director of the
Office of National Drug Control Policy under President George
Bush. In 1988 while serving as Governor, I created a drug
coordinator office to work with the citizens of Florida to
develop a Florida drug policy.
In addition to my business interests, I am involved in
numerous community organizations and serve on the boards of the
University of Tampa, Hillsborough Education Foundation and the
District VI Juvenile Justice Faith Advisory Council. I say this
because I remain active with the young people of the State of
Florida in one fashion or another.
I know that in recent years we have had tremendous
discussion about the use of tobacco and what it does to people
that use tobacco, and certainly it does. I have never smoked in
my entire life and I know there are long-term consequences for
use. My concern during this whole period of debate is that
little was said about the controlled substances. Little was
said about the danger of cocaine and heroin and marijuana.
Certainly it has not been, I think, in the news media like it
should be. And, of course, these are instant lethal
consequences, not long-term consequences. It can happen any day
when you overdose. It can happen any day that is a result of
the use of drugs that you engage in crime. It happens on any
day the disruptiveness that comes to family units and to
neighborhoods; therefore, I believe that this is a kind of
issue that needs to be in the forefront at all times in a very
visible way.
It is always hard to talk about law enforcement solely
because in my view education and prevention works if law
enforcement works. If law enforcement is not effective, there
is no way for a message by a parent, by a school or by anyone
else to take hold because merchants are out there making a
sale. You have to remember this is a marketplace. You just do
not get up one morning and say you know what, I am going to use
drugs. There is someone out there that is making it available.
There is someone out there that is selling it just like Coca
Cola sells Coca Cola. It is an organized effort to do so. We
all know as adults how we can be persuaded to purchase a
certain type of automobile or go to a certain restaurant or
whatever it is because of peer recommendation or because of its
availability. So you can imagine what a youngster who perhaps
is even more impressionable than we are, when they walk through
a school building or walk in their neighborhood and are being
approached openly without consequence by those who sell. So for
that reason, a key element, I think, is that if law enforcement
is effective, a chance for stopping first-time use of drugs,
which is in my mind a very important factor, first-time use of
drugs. Once you break the barrier, once you use it once, there
are some quite frankly that get quickly addicted to the
recurring use of it.
In the area of law enforcement--and I cannot praise DEA
enough. I had the opportunity to work with DEA for a good
number of years; the Customs Department which also carries a
major effort in the area of drug interdiction; the U.S. Coast
Guard which continues to work tremendously; the Department of
Defense with its resources, provides necessary information so
that DEA and others can carry out their mission. But the
national policy--there should be a national policy, not a
Federal policy. By national, I mean it has to include the
sheriffs of all the counties across this great country and the
police chiefs and other enforcement agencies that exist in the
50 States of our Nation. There has to be coordination, the
sharing of information, the sharing of resources for it to be
effective.
Starting with the DEA with its mission of not only dealing
with core organizations, the heartbeat of the drug trade, the
business merchants, the ones in charge of going to source
countries developing the drug, providing for its
transportation, providing for the laundering of its money. Here
you can tackle it by going after kilos instead of grams, after
tons rather than grams. Interdiction is important. Working with
source countries is extremely important. An unfettered drug
organization able to manufacture and ship and money-launder is
going to flood whichever country they target. Intelligence is a
must, working with the source countries to be cooperative is a
must. Training their personnel and selecting their personnel is
extremely important. You know, it is a lot better to know which
container on a freighter has the drugs than searching through
500 containers. Have you ever been to a free trade zone and
looked at the thousands of containers that are there? You can
send the National Guard, the DEA to search some containers, but
if someone has not provided you the information on which
container, the chances of finding it are not quite good. So, it
has to be beefed, it has to be effective.
You have to go after the secondary organizations that have
the single purpose, whether it is to transport, to acquire the
chemicals required to make coca leaf into cocaine, or in charge
of enforcement of the system, and when you disrupt, it does
cost them money. When you disrupt, you do reduce the supply,
and if you disrupt enough, you drive the price up. If you
disrupt enough they have to cut its potency, but if you do not
do that, it is cheap, cheaper than a six-pack of Coke. Any
elementary child will carry that kind of pocket money. So, it
is an integrated effort before it gets to the streets.
When it gets to the streets and the sheriff and all his
people and police chiefs all across the country have to deal
with it, now they are doing, you know, house-to-house warfare.
Now you are dealing with grams, now you are dealing with a
disruptive neighborhood where people want to move out and
cannot because nobody wants to buy the house. Where you would
like to go for a walk but you cannot because you do not feel
safe. Where outsiders come in because the drug dealers are on
the street and that's where they come to buy. They may live 20
miles from that neighborhood, but that is where it is sold and
that is where it is bought. So who is in jail here? Is it the
dealer or the people who live there who live behind bars. You
have seen those neighborhoods and you go by and you see a lot
of wrought iron bars keeping people out of their homes. That is
no way to live. It is no way to live when like this youngster,
I believe his name was what, Michael Johnson, when a career is
destroyed. So for those who say we spend too much money on law
enforcement, perhaps we are not spending enough money on
education, prevention and treatment, not that we are spending
too much money on law enforcement.
I think in recent years, the emphasis seemed to me--from
what little I was able to gather in the media, the emphasis was
more on treatment. Treatment is important. Effective treatment
is important, not feel-good treatment. Effective treatment is
important. But, that is treating the casualties, and they have
to be treated when you have a casualty, but a good offensive
reduces casualties and that is education and that is law
enforcement. That is prevention and that is law enforcement and
that is what has to work to reduce casualties. I do not think
we have done enough to do that. Maybe we got complacent because
we saw numbers were going the right way some years ago and now
we see numbers are again beginning to spike upward. As early as
the 1990's, predictions were already out there that heroin was
going to become a drug of choice, because as they made it pure
and it became snortable, even associated with a dirty needle, a
different class of people would access it, and it has happened.
So now it is not just cocaine, but now it is heroin.
You know, Mayor Giuliani in New York City has been given a
great deal of credit for what has happened in New York City and
rightfully so. I think he has done a tremendous job. He took
care of small things, cleaning up the streets, picking up the
litter and cleaning up the graffiti. While that may not be
glamorous it cleans up an environment and when you clean up an
environment people are willing to hold it that way. But if you
walk out of your house every darn day and all you see is the
drug pushers in the neighborhood, how do you get them to clean
up their environment?
So I urge you--and I will be delighted to answer, you know,
questions--that we go back and put more emphasis on these core
organizations to be sure they do not flood us with the drugs as
they have done. That we go after those secondary organizations
that transport at will and launder the money and support the
local organizations so that education and prevention has an
opportunity to take hold before the pusher takes hold. If we
can do that, I think we can make some progress.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. I
will be delighted to answer questions.
Mr. Mica. Thank you, Governor. We appreciate your
testimony. We are going to defer questions until we have heard
from all of the panelists. I would like to recognize now our
sheriff, Don Eslinger, who is also head of our local high
intensity drug traffic designation. Sheriff, you are
recognized.
Sheriff Eslinger. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and Congressman
Ose.
Late yesterday afternoon I received a fax and I would just
like to read it, if I may. It says
Dear Sheriff Eslinger, my wife Mona Tatje has spoken with
you on occasion about the followup on seeking the individual
involved with the heroin overdose of our daughter Christina.
With the Congressional hearing coming up tomorrow, I just
wanted to say that if I can do anything more or if anything
more can be done to stop the senseless waste of our youth,
please make the extra effort. I write this with a broken heart,
but as a parent and a citizen, I promise to help in any way
possible to educate parents, youth and whoever will listen.
This hideous drug is destroying many of our youth in central
Florida. Sincerely, David Tatje.
Their daughter Christina was dropped off after she
graduated from high school in Eustis last year, 1998. A so-
called friend dropped her off at South Seminole High School--I
am sorry, South Seminole Hospital where she died several hours
later as a result of a heroin overdose. Many agencies are
currently working this investigation, including the Central
Florida HIDTA Heroin Task Force, and hopefully we will have
results on that investigation.
As we heard this morning, family and friends of overdose
victims are shattered by the loss of loved ones. Problems
associated with drug abuse in our community are far reaching.
We are all affected and victimized by the presence of illegal
drugs in our community even though we may not have a direct
relationship to the abuse or loss of life.
Congressman Ose pointed out that in the Third Congressional
District of California, the DA estimates 75 percent of all
reported crime he is handling is either drug or alcohol
related. I estimate in Seminole County 80 to 90 percent of all
reported crimes are directly related to drug and/or alcohol
abuse. This crisis is adversely affecting the safety and the
quality of life in our community. Law enforcement
administrators are seeking innovative and progressive methods
to deal with this problem. It should be very clear that this
crisis is not just an enforcement related problem, but rather
should be our Nation's top social priority. All of us must
realize that criminal behavior, including drugs and alcohol
abuse are not just--are symptoms rather of a much more complex
problem that we are experiencing in our society.
Kids and adults do not refrain from the use of drugs
because it is illegal. As Michael testified, they abstain
because they have made smart choices based on proper values and
positive family influences. It is a moral choice. There is a
dilemma that in our government we cannot legislate, regulate or
mandate proper parental involvement, guidance or even effective
parenting skills. We should do everything we possibly can do to
prevent people from ever becoming involved in illegal drugs.
Our demand reduction strategy should continue to be all
inclusive. The family, church, school, business community,
neighborhoods and the entire criminal justice system must
become more of a positive influence in the lives of our
children.
Our newly elected Governor, Jeb Bush, has renewed Florida's
war on drugs. A counter offensive to eliminate illegal drugs
and their negative effect on our communities is being initiated
on four fronts--drug awareness, coordination and leadership;
drug enforcement; prevention and treatment.
The first front must be to re-establish a clear, simple,
consistent and direct message that drugs do destroy lives. It
is imperative that our communities become more aware of the
peril caused by the presence of illegal drugs. A State drug
commissioner, drug action councils and enhanced partnerships
with the Federal Government is recommended to ensure high
level, high profile attention to the drug crisis facing our
State.
The second front calls for an intensified involvement of
all entities within the system. There are a number of
initiatives within the State that will enhance our enforcement
efforts. In addition to these efforts, punitive sanctions for
those who choose to engage in this activity must be more
severe. What Michael and the Bergers were speaking of was a
State system and they characterized it very accurately. With a
new Governor and new administration and a new way of thinking,
bringing back minimum mandatory sentences, this will change.
The Federal system is totally opposite of that. What a
deterrent effect--great resource for us to use, and quite
regularly the local law enforcement and State officials in the
middle district of Florida use the Federal system and the U.S.
attorney's office to effectively prosecute those who chose to
be involved in this activity.
On two separate occasions, two separate school years,
members of our organization, undercover agents, attended
school. We sent three agents to three different high schools in
two separate school years, and you never know, there may be one
here today. They yielded over 80-plus arrests. Michael is
right, there is a total void of consequences relating to that
activity in this State's system. I have to share with you that
it is my opinion that there is no difference between a heroin
trafficker that continues to deal despite the loss of life than
that of a murderer who places a gun to the head of their victim
and pulls the trigger.
The third front focuses on drug prevention. The Governor
clearly states that the war on drugs is won or lost during the
formative years of development. Along with a host of other
community-based prevention initiatives, we must also continue
to emphasize prevention by establishing drug free schools, drug
free work places and blocking the legalization of marijuana.
The fourth and final front involves the treatment of
substance abusers to interrupt dependency which will reduce the
demand for our drugs or drugs in our community. Expanded drug
courts for adults and juveniles, drug treatment and after-care
for inmates and utilization of proven effective treatment
processes will result in the need for less drugs within our
community. Quite simply, without the demand for drugs, the
supply will be eliminated or at least adversely affected.
I have to share with you that in 1998 the average age of a
victim of a fatal heroin overdose victim was 29 years of age.
The majority of these victims were addicted to the substance.
Adequate, accessible drug treatment programs are lacking. To
have any positive effect, this needs to be a priority. I know
it may not be popular to some, but I have to tell you it is
important.
Governor Bush is sending a strong message that our
comprehensive drug control strategy is a top priority for the
State of Florida. A drug summit involving leadership from all
four fronts will be held on February 12th. At this summit, we
will collaborate to build effective integrated solutions which
will address all aspects of the drug crisis in our community.
I ask each of you to look at this process and strategy
carefully. We would strongly appreciate Federal funding
assistance be given to implement these critical strategies. I
also urge you to give serious consideration to adopting these
initiatives as a national model.
To further enhance our efforts, I suggest that we better
utilize existing resources to aggressively seek out the
trafficker, dealer and those responsible for distributing
illegal drugs within our community. As well, we should
encourage more multi-agency initiatives.
I would like to thank you Congressman Mica for your
commitment to seek solutions to this crisis and for your
leadership in the establishment of a central Florida HIDTA. The
HIDTA enforcement efforts began in June 1998. Currently 26
agencies are involved in seven different multi-agency
operations. Collectively, local, State and Federal agents have
made 938 arrests. Agents have seized 6 pounds of heroin, 74
pounds of cocaine, 14--a little over 14 pounds of
methamphetamine, which is a significant problem in the Tampa
area, over 17,000 pounds of marijuana. They have also seized in
assets $1.2 million in currency, 32 vehicles and 43 firearms.
We must continue to assist smaller police agencies so they too
can join the HIDTA effort. I would ask for your consideration
to expand the geographical HIDTA designation to include Brevard
and Lake Counties.
In spite of this great challenge, I am still optimistic.
You see, we have allowed an environment to develop in which
illicit drugs have flourished in our society. One might say
that we have done this to ourselves. What we have done, we can
certainly undo. What is very clear is what we do about the drug
crisis today will determine our future and success for this
generation and generations to come.
I want to thank the committee for their time and interest
in addressing this serious matter. Thank you.
[Applause.]
[The prepared statement of Sheriff Eslinger follows:]
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Mr. Mica. Thank you, Sheriff. We appreciate your leadership
on this issue, it is good to hear from you this morning.
We are going to suspend questions until we hear from our
last witness, and that is Mr. Vincent Mazzilli, and he is the
Special Agent in Charge of the Miami Field Division of the Drug
Enforcement Agency.
Thank you for coming, welcome, sir, and you are recognized.
Mr. Mazzilli. Thank you, Chairman Mica, members of the
committee. I appreciate the opportunity to appear here today to
discuss what is our drug problem and our drug crisis.
Although a wide spectrum of drugs affect the Orlando area,
I think we all recognize that heroin is the most destructive.
My comments today will be limited to giving you a brief history
and an objective assessment of the heroin problem which is
currently facing not only Orlando, but the United States.
As many of you are aware, heroin trafficking and abuse is
not a new issue to law enforcement. The heroin epidemic
originated in the United States during the 1950's and 1960's
when 95 percent of the heroin that was smuggled into this
country entered through New York City. Most of the heroin was
distributed throughout the United States under control of
traditional organized crime. In the 1970's, criminal elements
within the organized crime began to relinquish their control
and influence over the heroin trade to criminal groups from
southeast Asia, southwest Asia and the Middle East, who began
to emerge as the preeminent force in heroin distribution,
production and trafficking.
Recently, the heroin market has experienced a familiar
shift, from the domination of southeast Asian heroin just a few
years ago, to the increased penetration of the wholesale and
retail markets by South American criminal organizations.
In recent years, law enforcement investigations and various
indicator data that have been collected by law enforcement
began to reflect that the Nation's largest heroin markets were
dominated by South American heroin traffickers. During the same
timeframe, purity of this South American produced heroin was
reaching record highs. A combination of higher purity, lower
prices and ready availability has taken a toll on cities such
as Baltimore, Plano, TX, and our very own, Orlando, FL. Today's
heroin mortality figures are the highest ever recorded. Close
to 4,000 people have died of heroin overdoses in each of the
last 4 years.
The situation we face today was brought about by a
strategic management decision made by both Colombian and
Mexican-based trafficking organizations to increase their
respective shares in the lucrative U.S. heroin market.
In the early 1990's, independent traffickers from Colombia
began to supply retail level outlets for heroin distribution,
primarily in the northeast cities, with high quality, high
purity heroin. By supplying heroin dealers with high purity
heroin to be given away as free samples and by establishing a
brand name for heroin, in essence marketing heroin, the
Colombian traffickers quickly gained a foothold in the
burgeoning heroin markets along the east coast. These
traffickers in South American heroin have virtually squeezed
the ethnic Chinese criminal networks out of the market in the
northeast, by offering not only high purity heroin, at
competitive prices, but frequently providing easier terms for
the purchase and payment. Colombian traffickers also began
using Puerto Rico as a major transshipment area for the
distribution of their products to places such as Florida and
Louisiana.
The use of couriers traveling on commercial airlines is the
primary means by which Colombian-based groups smuggle their
heroin into the United States. In the continental United
States, the principal cities of importation are Miami and New
York. Couriers employ a variety of means to smuggle heroin,
which includes the use of false bottom suitcases, body pack and
internal body carries.
Once the heroin enters the United States, it is transported
through a variety of methods, such as domestic flights to other
areas, private vehicles, trains, buses to reach retail markets.
With an influx of high purity heroin from South America,
Orlando and other cities in the United States began to
experience a dramatic shift in user populations. As recently as
the early 1990's, the heroin problem in Orlando, as with much
of the rest of the United States, was typically associated with
a limited part of the addict population. The introduction of
high purity heroin to the abuse population has enabled users to
administer the drug by snorting or smoking rather than
injection. This has drawn many new users, in particular young
people, into the use and abuse of heroin. The glamorization of
the use of heroin by the media has also contributed to the rise
in its abuse. This has fueled a mistaken belief that heroin
administered by snorting or smoking is not addictive, nor as
deadly as intravenous use. This is wrong--heroin-related deaths
more than doubled from 1990, where the death count was 1,980,
to 1996, where the death count has risen to 3,980--virtually
double.
Colombian-based trafficking groups have successfully
exploited the existing and highly efficient retail drug
distribution networks predominantly controlled by the ethnic
Dominican criminals operating in the northeast. DEA
investigative reporting and indicator programs have tracked
this increasing dominance of South American heroin since 1993.
Reportedly heroin purity in Orlando has reached as high as 92
percent at street levels.
Several initiatives have been undertaken by DEA to address
the problems, which are noteworthy. In February 1997, DEA
hosted a National Heroin Conference in Washington, DC.
Attendees at this conference included 300 participants from
throughout the Nation and around the globe, who gathered to
address the rising heroin abuse and trafficking trends.
Additionally, DEA also participated in a regionally based
conference held right here in Orlando to discuss heroin
trafficking and abuse. This was in August 1997.
In addition to the collective efforts of the law
enforcement community to identify and address the heroin
epidemic, Congress has also recognized this emerging threat and
responded with additional resources. Beginning with the 1998
budget, the DEA has been allotted 268 positions, which includes
119 special agent positions, all of which are dedicated
specifically to address the developing heroin situation.
In response to an increased availability of heroin and the
high rate of heroin-related overdose deaths in the Orlando
area, DEA, along with our State and local counterparts, have
increased our efforts to target, identify and arrest local
heroin distributors. As a result, the Orlando resident office
was recently upgraded to a district office status within DEA,
which will allow it to function at higher levels of efficiency,
adding an additional five special agents and one intelligence
analyst. Since 1996, the Orlando DEA resident office has
tripled the number of heroin investigations.
In 1998, the Central Florida area was designated as a
HIDTA, high intensity drug trafficking area, by the Office of
National Drug Control Policy. In an effort to address the
heroin problem in Orlando, a heroin initiative was also
approved. Under the guidance of DEA, a Heroin Task Force Group
was initiated which is comprised of DEA special agents and
State and local officers from nine other local enforcement
agencies. The Heroin Task Force Group's sole initiative is to
address the growing heroin threat in the six county Orlando
area. The Heroin Task Force also works cooperatively on a daily
basis with local drug investigators and homicide detectives to
investigate and bring charges against groups or individuals who
provide heroin to a person which causes death or serious
injury.
DEA's commitment to the heroin problem continues in other
ongoing initiatives. The office in Orlando participates with 20
other DEA offices in cities across the Nation experiencing
significant heroin problems in what we call the domestic
monitoring program. This program provides Federal, State and
local enforcement officials with information regarding the
nature of domestic heroin trafficking and domestic problems.
In conclusion, what I would like to say is that drug
traffickers that control drug production, specifically heroin,
in the marketing and distribution in the United States know no
national boundaries. They are not bound by fiscal constraints
and they utilize the latest technologies and delivery systems
available to enhance their illicit activities. It is critical
that intelligence gathering and resulting investigations into
these monolithic trafficking organizations continue to be
coordinated and developed to assist us in meeting the challenge
of this ever-increasing threat.
Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I once again
would like to thank you for inviting me here today and whatever
questions you have, I will be glad to answer.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Mazzilli follows:]
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Mr. Mica. Thank you for your testimony. I would like to
start with a few questions and I would first direct a few
questions to Governor Martinez.
You were head of our National Drug Control Policy Office as
the Drug Czar under I guess it was the Bush administration, and
I think if you look at the charts, in those days you at least
had a gradual decline in some of the use and some of the deaths
and destruction wrought by illegal narcotics, and I think you
said that we have changed the policy and started dealing with
the casualties more just in treatment.
What happened, in your opinion, and where do we need to
change that?
Governor Martinez. I think when in essence you do not have
an effective demand control, in essence you are sending out a
message that it is no longer important, it is no longer
illegal, there are no sanctions, that in essence it will go
unrecorded and unpunished. In society, often without sanctions,
compliance will not occur among a certain population.
Overwhelmingly, American people voluntarily comply with either
statutory law or a value law--thou shall not kill, so to speak.
There is a number that no matter what law you pass or how
hard you try to enforce it, either they are totally unaware of
the effort or could care less that this is taking place. But
there is a significant number of people that comply with rules
and laws based on sanctions. I am sure that if by April 15,
those who report taxes do not report taxes, there is a
sanction. And I suspect if you had no sanction, that tax
returns on April 15 may not be as compliant as they are today.
I suspect that if the State of Florida did not have sanctions
for not renewing your driver's license, your auto tag, that
compliance with that, with a certain part of the population--
not the majority of Floridians or majority of Americans--most
people want to comply. But the more you, in essence, excuse or
do not enforce, there is this population group that will creep
on you doing the wrong thing.
If in fact, we are not enforcing sufficiently; if in fact
you are telling the source countries we do not have the
resources nor the desire to deal with the problem that you have
got with the organized crime organizations that exist there,
you are welcome to shift because we are going to take care of
those who may use it, I think you will aggravate it. And I
think we have aggravated it. Maybe I will say something that
you are not able to say, and I am glad to see what Congress has
done in 1998 by beefing up again. But in my view, if you look
at the budgetary process used over the last 6, 7 years, I do
not believe the enforcement side was able to keep up with the
necessary resources to deal with a multi-national type effort
with limitless resources and technology to carry out their
mission. And if you want to reduce the supply, you not only
need a good supply reduction program--you obviously need a good
demand reduction program, but you need a good supply reduction
program like this youngster said, you know, once you fall into
the culture, you know where to get it. And if it is cheap to
get, unfortunately you will get it.
So, I would say this, bring balance to the program. Do not
say treatment is not important because it is important. Do not
say demand reduction and prevention and education is not
important--it is. But you have got to make enforcement as
important as it used to be.
[Applause.]
Governor Martinez. There are laws in the Federal statutes,
there are laws in the States all over this country. Enforcement
is part of it. In some cases, toughening the penalties that
come with the law that is already on the books is important.
But I will tell you what I think you need more than
anything else, Congressman, and you are doing this here, you
and your committee, by being here--it needs energy. The war
against drugs needs energy, it needs to mobilize again. It has
to show the parents of these youngsters that somebody cares in
the place of authority, that for their efforts there will be
sanctions for those who violate them. And the marches against
drug use become against something that is not rare and that the
employers of this country begin going beyond what they have
already done with the drug-free workplace and the drug-free
school zones mean something, like getting locked up if you
violate them.
So, it is energy that is needed so that people will
mobilize and they do not feel that this is a lonely effort that
only my family or my neighborhood is involved in because the
rest of the Nation is not tied into a system of action.
I think of all the things that I have said, I believe this
whole thing of them not having a sufficient pulpit, a
sufficient energy to drive volunteerism, to drive law
enforcement to carry out the mission, is what is truly missing
to make all this work.
Mr. Mica. Thank you.
Sheriff, you had recommended the expanding of the Central
Florida HIDTA to include, you said, Brevard and Lake Counties?
Sheriff Eslinger. Yes.
Mr. Mica. Can you tell me why? Also, since we are dealing
with a limited number of Federal dollars, both that you
received initially and you are going to get $2.5 million this
year, is that going to disburse the money over a wider area
less effectively? Maybe you could tell us your recommendation.
Sheriff Eslinger. Quite simply, we would like to do Brevard
County because it is a port of entry, we would like to get
their agents from those agencies actively involved. Lake
County, they have a tremendous problem and we also would like
to provide those resources to them.
The Heroin Task Force, for example, we need additional
manpower there and I am certain that we will use the additional
money wisely there, not only for enforcement efforts relative
to traffickers and smugglers, but also to assist local agencies
as liaison agents to the U.S. Attorney's Office for Federal
prosecution of the individuals responsible for the death of
these 52 people. That is a quite serious top priority of ours.
For those two reasons, I would like to see that those two
additional counties be included in the HIDTA designation.
Mr. Mica. Thank you. You have had less than a year really
to deal with the organization of the Central Florida HIDTA and
also the Federal law and regulations that oversee establishing
a HIDTA. My colleague and I will go back and see what needs to
be changed in the law and procedures for HIDTAs as we
reauthorize the program.
Also, I am interested in addition to any recommendations
you have about how that is operated. I am particularly
interested in have you had the cooperation and is this working
with Federal, State, local prosecutors, other folks? Is
everyone working together? So two part question, if we could.
Sheriff Eslinger. I will address the level of cooperation
first. I am exposed to a lot of different State and local law
enforcement organizations throughout the country as a result of
my involvement with the National Sheriffs' Association as well
as the Community Policing Consortium out of Washington, DC. The
level of cooperation between local, State and Federal agencies
in this area is unparalleled. I have to tell you that it is
just the best I have ever seen or been a part of or ever been
exposed to. I can pick up the phone any time day or night and
talk directly to the heads of the Federal agencies here
locally, special agents in charge, as well as any of our agents
and members of other local organizations. They are a tremendous
resource to us. We have many initiatives that we work together,
including HIDTA. I have to tell you that as well, the U.S.
Attorney's Office has been a tremendous resource to us and
other local agencies for enhanced enforcement and prosecution
of some of these individuals. It has been remarkable.
As far as ONDCP, they have been very responsive. We began
on HIDTA processing January 1998, when the executive committee
first met. We got on line enforcement-wise probably around June
1. We started receiving funding in August of last year. The
level of cooperation between the agencies that are involved--I
think 26--I would like to make it more inclusive. There are
approximately 60 to 70 different agencies involved or rather
are in the HIDTA region currently and I would like to solicit
more involvement from local agencies. I think we can better
utilize existing resources if we have the proper mechanism in
place. As far as ONDCP, they have been very responsive to us.
From a personal and professional viewpoint, it is a little
bureaucratic, I guess I am not used to the Federal system like
many others are who are involved in the process, but they have
been very responsive to our needs, our questions and we do have
a good relationship with them.
Mr. Mica. Are they heavy on the paperwork reporting?
Sheriff Eslinger. I think--and that is what is missing
sometimes in a lot of these initiatives, a lack of
accountability. We need that. You particularly, as establishing
policy throughout the country--it is one thing giving an agency
money, but they had better produce when they get that money. I
think that is awfully important and ONDCP does a good job in
the accountability area.
Mr. Mica. And it is not overdone, it is something you can
live with?
Sheriff Eslinger. Yes.
Mr. Mica. OK. I would like to ask about your opinion, I
think that the Governor has talked about the Giuliani zero
tolerance policy and we are also seeing some startling
statistics out of New York City with dramatic drops in crime
and drug abuse cases. Is that something you think we should
adopt for the local community or the State? If so, why; and if
not, why not?
Sheriff Eslinger. Essentially what the Police Commission in
New York adopted is a social theory, we have trained all our
deputies on that same social theory, by the way. But what we
are talking about is zero tolerance. Zero tolerance, we have
adopted that policy for any child under the age of 18 that
knowingly possesses any alcohol or controlled substance, they
will be incarcerated and transported to our juvenile assessment
center. All seven municipalities as well in Seminole County
have adopted that same policy. That sends a clear message that
we are not going to tolerate it--we are not. But I caution you
on that, that you have to have a coordinated effort in the
entire system in order to implement such a program. We have a
number of punitive sanctions and programs, initiatives, that
takes care of that--Operation Right Track and a host of others
that we could work with the Clerk's Office and the State
Attorney's Office and get these children into those programs,
those prosecution alternative programs, for those minor
offenses.
Governor Martinez began in several different areas minimal
mandatory sentences, the last administration, Tallahassee
eliminated the majority of those minimal mandatory sentences,
and I am certain Governor Bush and the leadership of Senator
Jennings will bring that issue forward in this legislative
session. So you will see a significant change in the way that
the sentencing guidelines are currently structured.
Mr. Mica. Glad to hear that. I will be testifying or
participating in the summit next Friday that the Governor has
called, and also meeting with our delegations, legislative
delegations, and recommending that we toughen some of the State
penalties. I think you have expressed, we have heard others
express that the Federal penalties are tough and we need to
mirror that at the State level; otherwise, we are going to have
these folks back out on the street and the penalties are kind
of meaningless.
Sheriff Eslinger. Void of consequences. There is absolutely
no deterrent, which is a certainty of apprehension followed by
swift and sure punishment, in the State system, it is a void.
Hopefully this session, you will see a remarkable change from
that.
Mr. Mica. Thank you.
Mr. Mazzilli, the number of DEA agents that we have
assigned to Florida, how many, do you know?
Mr. Mazzilli. For the entire State, sir, it is----
Mr. Mica. I know you are from the Miami Division and you
cover central Florida, is that correct?
Mr. Mazzilli. That is correct, sir, we cover the entire
State of Florida and the Bahamas.
Mr. Mica. How many folks do you have in that whole--under
your supervision in that whole area?
Mr. Mazzilli. The table of organization ceiling calls for
425 special agents.
Mr. Mica. And is that adequate to conduct the area that you
are charged with enforcement responsibility?
Mr. Mazzilli. Well, sir, we can always use more resources,
we can do more with more. But we have been able to adequately
address the problem with the current ceiling of agents that we
do have on board.
Mr. Mica. Now with the introduction of the HIDTA, have you
added agents--what is the complement, if I go back and look at
the statistics a year ago for assignment in the central Florida
area versus now, what are we looking at, the same numbers?
Mr. Mazzilli. Sir, I can speak to what we have on board in
the Orlando area right now. The Orlando area's table of
organization calls for 28 special agents. We currently have
approximately 23 on board. This is complemented by
approximately 22 deputized State and local officers, they are
deputized as task force agents working alongside with our
agents and helping us out in the Orlando area.
Mr. Mica. Are these--have you been given new positions?
Mr. Mazzilli. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mica. And there are five vacancies?
Mr. Mazzilli. Well, the five vacancies, approximate five
vacancies, are due to the creation of five new positions in
Orlando.
Mr. Mica. But are you able to fill those? What is the
problem with having five vacancies, is it just because the
openings have occurred so quickly?
Mr. Mazzilli. Well, yes, sir, the process takes some time
to implement the placement of agents at their duty site.
Mr. Mica. Are you going to take them from the force or are
you hiring somewhere else in the system? Are you hiring new
ones? How soon can we expect them to be on board?
Mr. Mazzilli. Well, the five agents that we will actually
get in the Orlando area will be additions to the Miami field
divisions and additions to the Orlando office, and as far as
how long it will take to bring them into the Orlando area, it
is usually between 90 and 120 days, 90 at the earliest.
Mr. Mica. One of our major concerns of course is heroin,
you also referred to it and we have got our task force on that.
I am a little bit concerned and we have to give consideration
that we have only been in operation really since last June, but
I am not sure if we are making a dent in the quantity of heroin
that we are seeing on the streets or coming into the area. Now
the Sheriff did give I think a pretty good rundown, but do you
think--are you getting an indication that we are impacting the
quantity or is this--and where are we in stopping this flow?
Mr. Mazzilli. Well, sir, the initiative of this task force
to attack heroin is at its infancy. As you know, it was started
during the summer. Since the summer, the agents and officers
assigned to the task force have arrested 58 major heroin
traffickers in the Orlando area. Out of the 58, 11 of these
defendants were directly implicated with overdose deaths that
occurred as a result of their drug dealing. So have we made an
impact? I would say certainly. Do we have a ways to go?
Certainly.
What we plan in the near future is to subdivide or even
possibly form a second group working in this task force to
attack the heroin problem that will deal exclusively with
overdose deaths that have occurred from heroin. This will
enable the other side of this task force group toward
traditional heroin investigations rather than to divert their
efforts to work homicide type investigations. So I think we
will get better efficiency if we can do that and we plan to do
that in the near future.
Mr. Mica. Administrator Constantine discussed that you can
trace almost to the field where the heroin is grown these days
through technical and chemical analysis. It is still sourced
out of Colombia, is that correct?
Mr. Mazzilli. That is correct, sir.
Mr. Mica. OK, and what is the traffic pattern now? We had a
lot coming, transitting through Puerto Rico; is that still the
case or have we--we appropriated pretty substantial dollars to
put the Coast Guard ring back around Puerto Rico last year. Is
that having an impact and are we seeing a change in the pattern
from the source?
Mr. Mazzilli. I think we are still seeing the majority of
the heroin that is being trafficked in the Orlando area coming
through Puerto Rico. Has that increase in resources had an
effect? Yes, possibly, but it takes time to assess what effect
additional resources have on a specific program.
What I will say is that heroin violators, drug violators,
are a very wily group. If you choke off, for instance Puerto
Rico, they will look for another avenue to get it in.
Mr. Mica. How are they bringing it in?
Mr. Mazzilli. Well, a great deal of the heroin is being
brought in by couriers, either body carrying it, concealed in
false bottom suitcases or a very traditional way that they
bring it in is actually having couriers swallow the heroin and
actually digest the heroin and later pass it and put it out on
the market. That is a very, very common way that they do it and
it is very difficult to detect.
Mr. Mica. Now some of these folks are coming from Colombia
and Puerto Rico or the Caribbean region. Do you have enough
agents as far as language skills to deal with these folks and
undercover folks? Is there any problem in recruiting people who
can go after this stuff?
Mr. Mazzilli. Again, Mr. Chairman, we can always use more.
Is there a problem recruiting? Because of the standards that we
have when we recruit, it takes a long period of time between
the actual recruiting and the backgrounds and the time that we
hire them. So it does take time. Can we use more? Certainly.
What I wanted to say before about the Caribbean situation,
that is a large ocean and the amount of resources that we have
in that could never really address an ocean of that size. So
our interdiction efforts have to be based on intelligence. It
is like fishing for a needle in a hay stack to try to catch a
freighter in the Caribbean coming toward the United States. We
have to couple our interdiction effort with good, hard
intelligence, whether it is from human source or other sources,
it has to be done that way to be effective.
Mr. Mica. What about bringing drugs in from other sources
other than Puerto Rico, could you tell me where else we are
looking at trafficking patterns, whether it is heroin, cocaine
or other drugs?
Mr. Mazzilli. Well, the one area that directly affects
Florida is the Bahamas. There is a great deal of contraband
being brought through the Bahamas, and that is a traditional
route that has been used for decades for drug smuggling.
Mr. Mica. Are they still using the Jamaican canoes and then
using the fast boats off the islands?
Mr. Mazzilli. They will use any combination that your
imagination would produce. They air drop to boats, they go from
freighter to go-fast, there are even some instances where they
have these large ocean-going go-fasts that are able to make it
to U.S. shores. Your imagination is the only bounds.
Mr. Mica. One of my emphases--and we worked back in the
1980's on establishing an Andean strategy, which was to stop
them at their source and we know that the heroin is coming from
Colombia, and we know that cocaine is coming from Peru and
Bolivia, 90 percent of it. Is it a wise expenditure to
reinstitute those Andean and source-country eradication and
drug source-country programs?
Mr. Mazzilli. I think everyone on the panel here today, as
well as yourself, realizes that fighting the drug problem here
in the United States has got to be attacked on many fronts, and
it is as strong or as weak as every link in that front. We have
spoken about prevention, education, treatment, and it also
applies to law enforcement. Law enforcement has to attack the
problem at every level, there has to be a strong initiative on
every level of the traffic, whether it is the guy down by the
school yard selling the grams of coke or heroin to the guy--to
the chemist in Colombia making it up. It has to attack every
level of the traffic to be effective. If you eliminate just one
area, you are not going to be effective, whether that is the
street dealer on the corner--if you allow him to sell, it is
not going to be effective; or whether it is the chemist in
Colombia producing it, it is not going to be effective.
Mr. Mica. Thank you. I will yield now to my colleague, the
gentleman from California, Mr. Ose, you are recognized, sir.
Mr. Ose. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Sheriff, when you have people out under cover, I presume,
buying and arresting, as the days go by, one of the things that
I have discovered in the short time I have been able to visit
with various sheriffs is that oftentimes the sheriffs or their
deputies easily identify the person on the street, they make a
$1,000 or $2,000 buy--if I understand correctly, they are then
required to arrest that person and thereby lose the chance to
go up the chain.
Sheriff Eslinger. I am not sure if that is the case in
California, but it is certainly not the case in Florida.
Mr. Ose. OK, so you have the ability to, if you will, use
smaller buys to seed the opportunity to get up the chain?
Sheriff Eslinger. Yes, and it is done, and the objective in
virtually every undercover case is to identify all source of
supply connected to that organization.
Mr. Ose. Has it been successful? At some point, it is a
huge amount of money that is laid on the table to make a buy.
Sheriff Eslinger. Yes, that is when we bring DEA in, but
yeah, we are successful in many areas. But again, it has got to
take the entire system to send a strong deterrent message. The
State system in the last 4 years, in our State, the ability to
have adequate punitive sanctions have dwindled and with this
new administration, this new session, I think that will turn
around. We often use the Federal system as a resource in
certain investigations to assist us in that manner.
Mr. Ose. One of the other things that has occurred, at
least in the Sacramento area, is that the district attorney and
the sheriff have gotten together to create what they call a
drug court, where all of the cases dealing with drugs go,
trying to separate them out of the system. Do you have that
here and has that proven effective?
Sheriff Eslinger. In certain judicial circuits, there is
that initiative and that is more the Governor's initiative to
bring that statewide and make it available to more judicial
circuits throughout the State of Florida.
Mr. Ose. What has been the experience?
Sheriff Eslinger. I understand it is working relatively
well in some of the larger counties. Governor Martinez may have
some direct information and knowledge of that.
Mr. Ose. OK, I appreciate your feedback.
You know, the criminals that are involved in this--Mr.
Mazzilli, you probably have a better understanding of this--the
criminals who are involved in this activity--they are after the
money--it is not like they are doing it to further capitalism.
[Bell rings.]
Mr. Ose. I know it is my turn, so--[laughter]--how
effective are we at attracting the actual physical cache that
comes out of these transactions?
Mr. Mazzilli. I think we are very effective in doing that.
We have several major initiatives that are currently ongoing
throughout the United States to track money proceeds, commonly
called money laundering investigations, and we have been very
successful in doing that. An example of that is a recent case--
it is not too recent, but recent notoriety of the
investigation, the Nassie David case where, together with some
local law enforcement agencies here in the State of Florida as
well as the Swiss authorities, we were able to seize $190
million of Nassie David's illegal assets deposited in European
bank accounts. So, you know, we have had some tremendous
successes in this arena and we continue to use this method of
investigation throughout the United States on a national
effort.
Mr. Ose. Are there countries of preference, if you will,
that people who are engaged in this criminal activity use to
ultimately deposit their ill-gotten gains?
Mr. Mazzilli. Yes, there are countries that, because of
their banking laws, enable traffickers to use that particular
country as a transshipping area for the money through bank
accounts ultimately to end up in South America where these
traffickers--where the heads of these organizations live and
thrive. However, that is not the only way they are getting
money from the United States market to South America. They are
actually physically transporting currency out of the United
States by various different means into the country of origin,
which in most cases is Colombia and Mexico. So the shipment of
cash, smuggling cash out of the country, is as much of a
problem as smuggling drugs into the country. So we are looking
at that also together with the Customs Service.
Mr. Ose. I will have to think about that a little bit more,
but I want to go back to the countries that might serve as the
depositories for these currency flows. Do we know which
countries are preferred depositories for such flows and are our
treaties with
those countries adequate to allow us investigative
opportunities to identify and recover such funds?
Mr. Mazzilli. Sir, that is a complicated question that I
will get into generally today and will provide you with more
specific information later on. In the past----
Mr. Ose. Let us do that later on then. If you can briefly
do that, I don't want to spend the chairman's limited time on
that--briefly touch on that, if you will.
Mr. Mazzilli. In the past, the countries of Panama, Belize,
Switzerland, Liechtenstein, and there are others that do not
come to mind immediately, have been instrumental in the
laundering of money. And I do not mean to say that the
countries themselves or the governments themselves sanction
money laundering--that is not what I mean to say. But as you
put it, the country of preference to move money through bank
accounts, happened to be those countries at the time. Now as of
late, we have been able--the U.S. Government has been able to
enter into agreements with these countries to tighten up their
banking laws and to work with us in investigations to help
track this down. And I will say it for the last time, the
trafficking groups are a very wily group. If you shut it down
in Panama or in Switzerland, they are going to go to either
another country or they are going to go to another technique to
get the money out of this country. And that is what they do.
Mr. Ose. They are still criminals.
Mr. Mazzilli. That is correct.
Mr. Ose. I have two other items, Mr. Chairman, if I may.
I see in this material that I believe in 1996 now under
Speaker Hastert's direction, that with respect to Colombia, we
authorized the provision of some helicopters to that country
for the purpose of going to high elevations and attempting to
destroy the poppy fields that are there. Those helicopters, if
I am correct, were delivered in October 1998?
I look at the numbers in here and I see that we have an
average of 4,000 heroin deaths a year that have grown from
approximately 2,000 heroin deaths a year in 1990, so roughly we
have 1,000 deaths a year on average more now than we had in
1990.
Mr. Mazzilli. Roughly 2,000 more.
Mr. Ose. I know, but over that 7-year period, it increased.
Mr. Mazzilli. Correct.
Mr. Ose. I am kind of curious--over 2,000 a year, if you
take the actual numbers, it is 4,000 additional deaths because
we could not get those helicopters, for instance, to Colombia
to spray these fields and kill this crop. Now obviously that is
not the only source.
How much money are we talking about having been involved?
Mr. Mazzilli. I do not know, sir, I really do not know. I
will have to get back to you with that. A lot of that is not
handled by DEA field personnel or DEA, a lot of that funding
for foreign government initiatives against drugs is handled by
the State Department, sir.
Mr. Ose. OK. I am told that we have about $100 million to
do that, so for 4,000 lives, we have now managed in 2 years to
get a program implemented that will hopefully help save the
next 4,000. That is like $25,000 a life, so we have been
delaying this program on that basis--I mean that is the
consequence? I am asking, I do not know.
Mr. Mazzilli. I do not know, sir, either. I mean, we really
do not get involved in that and I would have to defer.
Mr. Ose. Thank you.
My last question, Governor, from your experience as the
Director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy, do we
know who these people are who get this money, who are at the
far end of the chain?
Governor Martinez. You have reasons to suspect based on
intelligence. Without intelligence, you really cannot confirm.
You may suspect, but you cannot confirm exactly which bank or
which company or which group, and whether it is Panama or
Colombia or Switzerland, whatever, is doing the laundering.
But I can recall going into Panama and Bogota and all you
saw were tower cranes under construction.
Mr. Ose. Official bird of the country.
Governor Martinez. Yeah. And you wonder how in the world
could a country of that size, of that wealth, have so many
high-rise buildings going up at one time. Well, to a drug
pusher, you can take a loss on a resale, you can control
construction, transportation, materials and you are dabbling
out the money in smaller sums and putting it through the legal
system and then you sell the property at a discount to some
legitimate realtor perhaps and then it becomes a legitimate
deal. So there are all kinds of ways of doing it, but you do
need this information. And at one time, I think we emphasized
that more.
You have to get the cooperation of these countries. They
are sovereign nations and therefore the only ones who can deal
with another sovereign nation is the U.S. Government. And
therefore, the carrot and the stick will have to be applied to
those countries that we know for a fact are producing the
product that is coming here and killing our young people.
Either we take an action or we do not take an action. The truth
of the matter is we know where it comes from, we often know
which groups of people are involved, engaging in that practice.
So the question is how is it that we encourage that government
to do more than they are doing and we gain greater cooperation
from that government. And I think that is something that needs
to really be strengthened.
Often what would happen is that the U.S. policy for these
countries obviously had more than one issue, it is not just
drugs, there are other issues, and therefore, there are times
where you may be asked, well, we cannot do this because we are
trying to deal with them on this other subject. And if in
essence we squeeze here on the drug issue, it may somehow
interrupt or interfere with that other mission, whether it is a
trade agreement, whatever it may be, that we are dealing with.
So at some point, you have to say look, this is serious
enough where it is going to take more than just some other
issue dealing with one of these countries that is going to
postpone an action by the United States in terms of enforcement
and cooperation in that source country.
But without that cooperation, they are still a sovereign
nation and we cannot send the DEA with guns out and take over
the bank. So it has to be done with greater finesse than that,
greater cooperation, greater persuasion. But it can be done;
you know, you can trace money, they do it all the time. The
question is do they have the resources to do more of it and
when you get to the end of the line, what do you do to that
person or that bank or that company that has got it.
Mr. Ose. I know that we got some people in the late 1980's,
whose names escape me, who were doing this, particularly
Medellin and Cali. Apparently I am aware that there are
statutory prescriptions that prevent us from doing this. These
are our kids, our young people. I do not understand.
Governor Martinez. I am with you, Congressman. I think much
more can be done, whether it takes a sitdown with a tougher
bilateral agreement with each of these countries that in
essence you have needs, you like to trade with us, you would
like to sell your products to us, you would like to have
favored nation status with us; and there is a condition for
that and the condition for that is we need greater cooperation
from your government so that that kind of trade does not
penetrate our borders and therefore becomes, frankly, a front
burner issue rather than a reserve issue.
Mr. Ose. Policy decision.
Governor Martinez. Policy decision.
Mr. Ose. Made by one person or another, whether they are in
Congress or elsewhere.
Governor Martinez. Right. And that is--I will go back to
what I have said, that at some point publicly, not only by law,
but publicly it needs to be known in a very vocal and a very
visible way that this concern of ours with the use of drugs and
the sale of drugs in the United States is of sufficient
importance to us that we are going to demand more than we have
had in the past in terms of cooperation.
Mr. Ose. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Mica. Thank you.
Governor, I was involved in the drafting of the drug
certification law which ties our foreign aid and foreign
assistance to efforts by countries to eradicate, eliminate
drugs. If they cooperate, they are certified to be eligible.
That law has come under great attack in the Congress, some want
to eliminate it, think we are interfering in the affairs of
other countries. None of you share that view. That is one
proposal I think the administration last year floated an idea
moving the certification by the President to international
organizations. What do you think about that?
Governor Martinez. I think we need to seek the assistance
of all organizations, but I personally believe that the
interests of the United States is best served by the United
States and that cannot be jobbed off or contracted out to any
other body.
Mr. Mica. So, the Organization of American States should
not decide which countries get U.S. trade assistance, financial
assistance or foreign aid.
Governor Martinez. That is correct, it is still American
resources that are being sent out as aid and it ought to be
American policy that makes that decision. And it ought to be
American decisions as to which countries get the aid.
Mr. Mica. I am glad to hear your opinion in that regard.
Sometimes it is a little bit tough keeping some of the tougher
statutes in place and we are probably going to face that
challenge again.
One of the reasons for conducting this hearing is that
there is a process in law that these countries must be
certified and the President will act to either certify or
decertify them, the Department of State makes recommendations.
That process must be completed by March 1 and report to the
Congress and the Congress has the opportunity to act after
that. So it has been important that we start our congressional
oversight hearings in an expedited fashion here.
With that, I do have additional questions for the
panelists, we will have additional questions for both Sheriff
Eslinger in regard to the effectiveness of our HIDTA, the
resources that are necessary in the coming year--Sheriff, the
good news is that we got the award for $2.5 million, the bad
news is that we now have to start finding out what we are going
to do for the next year. We are always a little bit behind the
curve and even though we get into this, we are into this fiscal
year. So we look forward to working with you and the HIDTA and
those interested, and we will take under consideration your
recommendations that it be expanded.
And we always are most pleased with the response we have
had from the Drug Enforcement Administration and Tom
Constantine, the Director, is just a star in this entire effort
to bring the international and national drug enforcement
efforts to a coordinated and effective operation. He does an
outstanding job. He made a presentation which is about half an
hour at this drug summit I attended with him this past weekend
and it was absolutely outstanding and I would like to ask
unanimous consent that the record include the DEA
Administrator's comments from that record. Without objection,
so ordered.
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Mr. Mica. At this time, since we are running a little bit
behind time, we will not ask you any further questions
formally, but we may informally, as we keep the record open
here, submit some questions to your panelists for your
response. I want to thank each of you for being with us today
for your testimony and particularly for your cooperation at
this very pivotal time as we discuss our new national drug
strategy. Thank you, gentlemen.
[Applause.]
Mr. Mica. If people want to take a break for a couple of
minutes, we can get the other panel up, just 2 or 3 minutes. If
the other panelists would come up and allow someone, if they
need to, to take a quick call.
[Recess.]
Mr. Mica. I would like to call, if I may, the hearing back
to order.
Our third panel today is entitled Drug Education and
Treatment. We are pleased today to have Mary Trotter, executive
director of the House of Hope and I think she sat next to the
young gentleman that testified in the first panel. We also have
Scott Perkins, who is a detective, former detective, with us.
We have Larry Visser, president of the Grove Counseling Center;
and we have Marge LaBarge, a good friend, and senior
administrator of the Student Assistance and Family Empowerment
[SAFE] program, in Orange County Public Schools. Pleased to see
her back among us today.
The purpose again of this panel is to assess where we are
in some of our drug treatment and education programs. We have
again today the opportunity only for a sampling; however, I
know we have others who have indicated some interest in
submitting statements to the record, and without objection,
that will be so ordered. They can do that and we will keep the
record open until February 1 for that purpose.
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Mr. Mica. With that, I would like--well, let us start with
Marge LaBarge today. She is one of our--she is not only a
senior administrator, but a senior worker in this field and
tireless in her efforts. Marge, welcome and you are recognized.
STATEMENTS OF MARJORIE J. LABARGE, SENIOR ADMINISTRATOR,
STUDENT ASSISTANCE AND FAMILY EMPOWERMENT, ORANGE COUNTY PUBLIC
SCHOOLS; MARY TROTTER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HOUSE OF HOPE; LARRY
VISSER, PRESIDENT, THE GROVE COUNSELING CENTER; AND SCOTT
PERKINS, FORMER DETECTIVE, CHIMERA PRODUCTIONS, INC.
Ms. LaBarge. Thank you. I was afraid you were going to say
I am a senior citizen, because that is probably true.
Mr. Mica. We are both getting there, Marge.
Ms. LaBarge. I would like to thank Congressman Mica, who I
have a great deal of respect for, and feel that he has been one
of the foremost Congressmen in doing something pertaining to
the----
Mr. Mica. Ms. LaBarge, you might want to pull that mic a
little bit closer.
Ms. LaBarge. OK. I would like to thank Congressman Mica and
also Congressman Ose for being here. I have known Congressman
Mica for a long time, because I have been involved in fighting
this battle since 1971. I have given 28 years of my life in
trying to do something to stop the deaths that we are seeing
from young--with young people using drugs.
We are dealing with a very critical issue, an issue that is
affecting the youth of our community, affecting it to the point
they are not able and do not have the opportunity to live a
positive, productive life.
Two years ago, I, along with others in the community, met
with members of the Subcommittee on Criminal Justice along with
representatives and with members from the county commission
office and city government. We also met with, at that time--and
I guess still is, sorry--Director of the Office of National
Drug Policy, General Barry McCaffrey.
When we met, we asked as a group to see what we could have
done at a Federal, State and national level to help us impact
the growing drug problem that is devastating our youth in our
country. We asked for additional funds for prevention and
education, because this is where it has to start. The battle
with drug abuse, as with any other battle, must begin with
prevention, it must begin in the early years, and it must
continue all the way through, even into adulthood. It is not a
one-pronged battle, but it is a battle that we must unite on.
We asked for additional funding for Safe and Drug Free Schools,
we asked for additional funding for treatment, for community-
based treatment, we asked for additional funding for law
enforcement, for DARE programs and for school resource officers
in our schools to help us. This did not happen. This is
something that I am coming back today and asking for again.
I just would like to tell you what my week has been. I
have, in the last week, had a call from a parent whose 18 year
old daughter died 3 months ago from heroin, the parent was from
Mount Dora. I also have been working with another parent whose
17 year old daughter is in need of treatment for heroin
addiction. We have an 18 year old student in one of our high
schools who has already gone through heroin treatment, but is
now in need of outpatient services. We cannot provide
outpatient services in our school district, nor can we provide
the type of support that a heroin addict who is in recovery
needs.
I also have been working with another parent, a single
parent holding two jobs, who was just ripped off by her 30 year
old son who is a cocaine addict and who before ripping her off
had charged $10,000 worth of charges on her Visa card, which
she has to pay because it was done from her home phone.
Last night I went to bed after working a suicide case, a
suicide attempt of a 13 year old, and this morning, I was
awakened at 5 this morning by a parent who said to me, ``I hate
to wake you up, but my daughter''--and this is a parent in an
area called Windemere, which is a fairly affluent area--``my 18
year old daughter has been on a cocaine binge for 2 days. She
is home with us right now and is asking for help. If I do not
get her help now, I do not know whether when she comes down,
will she still want help or will she leave here and then go on
to continue to use cocaine''--a high school graduate, a college
student at Valencia Community College.
I called a detox center to ask them if they would take this
18 year old right away, this was at 6 a.m., because I was
concerned that if we did not get her in immediately, then she
would not still be willing to get help. The detox center told
me that they were not open until 8 and so we would have to
wait. Why? Because they do not have enough staff to staff the
center to be able to get services to a young person when they
need it.
And I can tell you, whether it is heroin or any other drug,
young people will not get the help they need until they realize
they need the help and they ask for it and want it.
As we are looking at the problems, it is not just heroin
that we need to face, it is the problems of dealing also with
cocaine and also with ecstasy. We have young people in our
schools who are using ecstasy that is cut with heroin and they
do not think there is a problem because many of them do not
believe or realize that heroin is in the ecstasy. We have young
people who feel that if they use heroin and they snort it, that
it is not going to hurt them, or smoke it, because all we have
shown in many, many of our PSAs coming from a national level
and other levels is someone who is a heroin addict with a
tourniquet around his arm and is shooting up and is in some
desolate area where it is not the type of heroin user we are
seeing today.
As part of our efforts in Orange County, we have a strong
zero tolerance for drugs and alcohol policy, as well as
violence in our schools. This is supported very strongly by the
Orange County School Board and the Superintendent of Schools.
We have a strong drug education curriculum program, pre-K
through fifth grade, that is research-based and has behind it
the principles of effectiveness. We also, in the programs that
we have, do talk to young people about the dangers of heroin
and LSD as well as other types of drugs. We also survey our
students every other year and as a result of the survey, we
know what type of programs we need to emphasize, we also know
what type of problems we have.
Interestingly enough, a lot of people do not realize that
the No. 1 reason our students--and we surveyed 5,000 students
in a 2-year period of time--are saying they use drugs is
because they want to feel good, not because of their peers, but
because they want to feel good. And that is a very sad
statement to make in our society today, that kids have to use a
drug to get to a point where they feel good.
The second thing that is very important is when we ask them
why they do not use, the No. 1 reason they do not use is
because they do not need it. Young people who feel they are
focused, they know what they want out of life know many times
that they need to get by without using drugs. They do not need
it because they are getting highs in different ways and it is
not drugs. They second reason they say that they are not using
drugs is because of religious reasons, and this came up 10
percent from 2 years ago. And that is a very positive
statement. They also say they do not use it because of their
parents and because of education.
As we go on and look at the surveys, we found out that 25
percent of our students are not using heroin as an experimental
drug. This was a decrease from the year before; 25 percent of
students report that they were not experimenting with heroin.
This is a very positive statement and it shows that we have
made a difference in getting the message out. However, 1
percent of the students reported that they were using heroin up
to 20 times within a 3-month period. So within our high
schools, we do have students reporting that they are using
heroin up to 20 times in a 3-month period. What this tells us
is that we can make a difference in the front end of education
with prevention and information programs, but we cannot make
the difference with a young person who is already addicted. We
do not have the resources nor should we be held accountable to
make a difference with a heroin addict or a user who is using
to the point that what they do need is outpatient treatment and
residential treatment.
What we know has to happen and what we feel must happen is
we must all join together and form campaigns that will continue
to emphasize the dangers of drugs. I cannot tell you how much I
respect Governor Martinez and also the campaign that former
first lady Nancy Reagan did. In the 1980's, when I started out
in 1971, one of the things that I saw--one of the highlights of
the work that I have done in the field of treatment and
prevention and also I was Drug Prevention Coordinator for the
State of Florida for 2 years, was during the time that Nancy
Reagan was campaigning against drugs. People laughed about
``Just Say No'' and red ribbon campaigns, but I can tell you,
we saw a decrease in drug use during the time that this
occurred. And we will see it again once we come together and if
you at a national level and we at a local level and a State
level, which I believe Governor Bush will do, will come
together bringing together members of the community, the media,
law enforcement, the faith communities, schools, business,
treatment people, health organizations and parents--and parents
are crucial, crucial, to the success of it, as well as you.
We must develop a strategic plan that is funded for 5
years, a plan that is not just here today and gone tomorrow,
based on the funding grants that come down from Washington and
from the State of Florida. The strategic plan must include
short and long-term goals, it must include funding for
education that mandates, and I say mandate--and this is not a
popular word for an educator to say, but we must mandate drug
abuse, drug prevention curriculum, pre-K through 12th grade
because as it stands now in many school districts, test scores
and reading and math have taken over to a point that
curriculums dealing with drug education and violence prevention
are being pushed aside and not occurring.
We must also include funding through Safe and Drug Free
Schools for intervention programs to occur within the schools
where we can provide support groups for students within a
school setting and we can bring people in from treatment
agencies to do programs for students who are in the beginning
and experimental use of drugs. We must also fund more school
resource officers and DARE type programs in the schools.
And I never thought I would live to see the day that I am a
very strong supporter of bringing in dogs to the schools to try
to find drugs that are there, as well as undercover agents.
Last year, the Orange County Public Schools, working with the
Orange County Sheriff's Department and Captain Scott, who I
have a great deal of respect for, he is the head of the
narcotics for Orange County Sheriff's Department, we brought in
three undercover agents to three of our schools and the good
news is that they did not find drugs on campus, the good news
is that they did make a difference in coming in because they
also were able to tell the principals of the schools areas that
needed more security. The bad news is no one knew that it
happened. I believe that if students knew that this could
happen, it would be a deterrent. It may push the drugs out into
the community, but it will not leave the drugs in the schools
where it is easier for students to get.
Our drug survey also shows that only 1 percent of students
are saying they are using drugs at school. The majority of the
time young people use drugs is after school when they are
latch-key kids or they are just hanging around, and on the
weekends.
We also must enforce a policy where law enforcement and the
school district work together in setting up strategies that
will continue to support the zero tolerance policy.
In the area of treatment, we desperately need more
treatment beds in Orange County, as we do in Seminole County.
We need beds for our students, our young people who are in need
of residential treatment, who are 16, 17, 18 years old, as well
as for the number of heroin addicts who may not have died had
they been able to get treatment. If you will look at the
statistics, you will see that the majority of deaths this year,
unlike 2 years ago, of heroin addicts was from 18 on up, we did
not have any students die from heroin addiction this year,
whereas 2 years ago, we had five students who died who were
honor students, who were student leaders and who came from very
strong families, very supportive families who were there for
them.
As far as law enforcement goes, we need strong services, we
need strong commitment from law enforcement, which we do have
but we need funding for law enforcement. Law enforcement must
be given some more support for community policing as well as to
do interdiction.
As we are looking at what you can do, I say to you, I urge
you, I beg you to increase funding for Safe and Drug Free
Schools for the United States, making sure that those people
who are receiving the funding are held accountable. We must put
in accountability. Programs that are in place in school
districts, as well as treatment centers, must be research-based
and must adhere to principles of effectiveness. We can no
longer afford to put money into programs that are not shown to
be effective and are not research-based.
In closing, I would like to thank you for allowing me to
come before you. I am committed to continuing to do everything
I can as a parent, as a member of the community, as an
individual and as a person representing a school district.
I also want to close by saying that I believe in the
philosophy, ``By the grace of God go I'' and I never say never,
because there is no one here in this room that can say it will
never happen to them. We do not know who it happens to or why
it happens sometimes, but we do know that it can happen to
parents, whether they are good parents or they are not good
parents.
Thank you again for allowing me to come before you and
present.
Mr. Mica. Thank you for your testimony.
[Applause.]
Mr. Mica. I would now like to recognize Mary Trotter, who
is the executive director of the House of Hope, and it is my
understanding you do not receive any Federal funds.
Ms. Trotter. We receive no government money at all.
Mr. Mica. If you could provide us with your testimony, you
are recognized.
[The prepared statement of Ms. LaBarge follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.046
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.047
Ms. Trotter. My name is Mary Trotter, I have been with
House of Hope for 5 years and I serve as its executive
director.
We are a faith-based program receiving no government funds,
but that does not mean we do not need government help. We just
look for it in different ways. We recognize the fact that we do
work in coordination with our school system and need to work--
our 1999 goal is to get more involved in government because it
is a sad case when out of nine of our current boy residents,
eight of them have been involved in drugs. Out of our current
25 girl residents, 22 have been involved in drugs. It is a sad
thing.
I had a statistic come across my desk yesterday and this
came from Family First organization, and it said of the 10,990
juvenile offenders committed to DJJ last year, 1,189 of them or
10.8 percent came from two-parent homes. That means that 89.2
percent came from single-parent homes. That goes right with
what Marge was saying, the problem may not be in the schools,
the problem is latch-key kids. So we need to address that.
But what grieves me more than that is the fact that what
should be the parents' responsibility, education should be
first, scholastics should be first in school, but we are having
to put a drug program to educate children in school--that
should be a parent's responsibility, and it is not.
So now we have to look at where we are at and put these
programs in place to help save the generation that is suffering
from it, which is our teens.
One of the things that Michael did not tell you when he
spoke before you earlier is Michael did not read his testimony
because of drug damage from acid, Michael still is recovering
from some residual effect of drugs where he cannot focus very
long. If he seemed to wander back and forth in his thoughts,
that is still a result of acid. He is doing much better than
when he first came in. He would sit at his desk probably about
2 minutes, in our on-campus school, and now he is actually
hitting the books again, he is educating himself again. That is
common with what we see. The reason I sat up here with Michael
is not because I do not trust Michael, but because our program
licensing requires us to be a certain distance. Actually this
is too far, Michael is in the front row, that is too far. But
more than that, my heart for Michael is, with Michael being
involved in the drug scene, his life is at risk yet, because of
all the involvement in robbery and stealing and bad drug deals
that he did. So my commitment goes beyond what our licensing
requires, our commitment is to protect him as an individual
because he is determined to try and make a difference now. He
is going to begin speaking next month in Polk County at the
Juvenile Detention Centers there and that is where he is going
to get involved and that is what House of Hope had realized
last year and we have a new program in place and I will explain
that in a moment, that is going to start utilizing the
graduates of our program to give back part of what they
received.
I do believe that what Marge said, that they do not ask for
help, is true, they do not know that they need it. They really
believe that they have no other purpose in life and that is one
thing that House of Hope focuses on, is to try to teach them
that they do have a purpose in life, they were created for a
purpose, they were not created just to attend parties all the
time, as fun as it may have seemed. None of our families
escapes this. I would love to sit here and say because I am in
a drug prevention program, drugs has not been a reality in my
family--it has. I have one nephew in prison, I have one in
juvenile detention right now and another one that I do not even
know really where he is, he is on the streets. So it hits all
of us.
I have been in the business now for 5 years, I know all the
right things to do, but there is a stronger influence that hits
them. Our biggest frustration as a program, and we did not
realize this until we started phase three of our program last
year, and that was how uneducated we really were to what was
going on on the streets today. Our counselors go meet their
criteria, every day they are updating their education, but by
the time it hits the textbook, it is too late, that is not what
is actively going on in the street.
It was just by a chance coincidence that I happened to see
a segment on the news where Scott Perkins, who is going to be
speaking later--they did I believe it was like a 5-minute flash
on one of our local news scenes and in preparation for phase
three of our program, my husband caught my attention and said
we need him to come to House of Hope to educate your staff. So
I contacted Channel 9, I believe it was, and then we got ahold
of Scott.
Scott came and talked to our parents, it made an incredible
difference. We knew nothing about GHB and I believe in north
Florida, it was GHB. We knew nothing about the kind of drugs
that were being served at the Raves. He had infiltrated the
Raves, so he had this information. This is not the education
that our counselors receive when they go to meet their
requirements.
This is a very important position and I believe that where
the funding could benefit programs that are faith-based like
ours that do not receive government funds is part of the local
government could take on someone like Scott, with knowledge
like that. House of Hope would host it and have all of the area
programs get to come and have their education renewed for
street education. He went into detail and I will let him do his
own speech, but he will probably tell you about the disguising
of drugs. We had no idea about that.
The reason we needed to know that is phase three of our
program, the Last Wave, is going to be an alternative to the
Raves that are still in so many lives. And our teens that have
gone through our program and are committed to take back what
was stolen from them, and that is the drug free life, are going
to be the ones that go in and actually minister to their peers,
if you will. They are going to go in and they are going to say
this is not the right life. Come over here, we can still have
fun, we still have games, we still have music, we still have
videos, we have updated technology, but we can do it drug free.
But to be able to do that, we needed to know what drugs were
out there and what drugs were actually causing the problem.
Mr. Mica. Thank you. We will withhold questions until we
finish. I would like to now recognize, if I may, Larry Visser,
who is the president of the Grove Counseling Center; also
involved in--whoops.
Mr. Visser. Technical difficulties.
Mr. Mica. Cannot wreck the equipment, Larry.
Mr. Visser. Sorry, I am a mechanic at heart.
Mr. Mica. Well, we are pleased to have you testify, and I
would like to recognize you at this time.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Trotter follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.048
Mr. Visser. Thank you. I would like to thank Congressman
Mica personally and publicly for taking the chairmanship of
this committee. It can be very tiring and frustrating work out
here in the front lines. I was having one of those days when I
heard that you had taken this chairmanship, and I know that
there were other opportunities that you had to forego to do
this and I really appreciate the personal commitment that you
have made by doing this; and thank you also, Congressman Ose.
In its 1997 assessment of central Florida human service
needs, the Heart of Florida United Way found that substance
abuse was the No. 1 concern of all three of its major informant
groups. We all saw the report in the Sentinel last week about
the fact that heroin deaths in Orlando have reached an all time
high in 1998. Nearly 50 percent of teenagers identified drugs
and drinking as the biggest problem facing their generation.
Teens in our own treatment programs caution us that
students do not respond very honestly to formal surveys and
from their own personal experience, they tell me that out of a
typical class of 30 students, about 15 students use drugs and
alcohol regularly and probably 5 or 6 are in trouble with
drugs.
Although our rhetoric is tough on drugs, our culture is
much too soft. We do not walk the talk. I do not mean to offend
anyone in particular, so I will offend each of us equally. All
too often we hear stories from teens in our treatment programs
about using drugs with parents or with parents of a friend, of
coaches who allow substitutes to drop clean urines for dirty
athletes, of club operators who are forewarned of police raids,
middle and high school students with far too much unsupervised
time on their hands; and yes, even of drug treatment
professionals who use drugs themselves. It does not escape any
of us.
The costs to society are well documented and overwhelming.
The cost effectiveness of education and treatment are equally
well documented.
A 5 year followup study recently done in Washington State
found that after receiving substance abuse treatment,
individuals incurred only half as much Medicaid expense as
others who needed substance abuse treatment but did not receive
it.
Numerous studies have documented remarkable decreases in
drug use, criminal activity, high risk sexual behaviors,
unemployment and other problems as a result of drug treatment.
Researchers agree that for every $1 invested in education
and treatment, there is a return of $7 to $10 to society.
Our own data locally show that at 12 months post-discharge,
70 to 80 percent of our treatment completers are still drug
free, crime free and either employed or in school.
Accountability has grown to the point that we routinely
track results on over 120 different performance and outcome
measures for various funding sources.
The Physician Leadership on National Drug Policy has
determined that drug dependence meets the criteria for a
treatable, chronic medical condition in terms of
diagnosability, heritability, and response to treatment.
Addiction treatment outcomes are comparable to those associated
with other chronic illnesses. Comparisons of medical and
behavioral compliance reveal that addicted patients have
compliance and remission rates comparable to patients receiving
treatment for other chronic illnesses such as diabetes, asthma
and hypertension. And yet public policy continues to be
dominated by criminal models of addiction.
Ironically, the growing body of evidence on the
effectiveness of education and treatment has done little to
increase public confidence or investment in them.
According to the National Household Survey on Drug Abuse
nearly two-thirds of people needing drug treatment do not
receive it.
There is not a single detoxification bed located within
Seminole County. You heard from Marge how difficult it is to
find a bed in Orange County.
In spite of waiting lists, we have had to reduce the
capacity of our own adolescent residential program this year
from 28 to 20 beds due to the lack of funding.
The available drug treatment and capacity in our local
jails, detention centers and commitment facilities only reaches
the tip of the iceberg. You hear stories from many teens about
teens and adults who wait a long time under lock and key before
they are able to access treatment.
Until your announcement this morning, Congressman Mica, we
have not seen the first dollar spent on treatment or prevention
as a result of our designation as a high intensity drug
trafficking area. We hope that you will use this opportunity to
begin to integrate treatment and education into the formula.
In order to put a team of 15 prevention specialists in
schools and community centers around Seminole County, we have
had to patch together 7 distinct funding sources plus
donations. Each has its own set of outcome measures and
reporting requirements, each has its own expiration date. It is
a real challenge to keep the initiative going. We could use
twice as many prevention specialists.
To counter the insidious nature of alcoholism and drug
dependence, our prevention and treatment strategies must
address every opportunity to reach those affected and those at
risk. Progress will depend on Federal leadership in the
following areas.
First, expansion of substance abuse prevention, treatment
and research through Safe and Drug Free Schools program, the
Substance Abuse Block Grant, and Knowledge Development Grant
programs.
You heard it from the Bergers this morning, I will say it
again; for many students, their recollection of drug prevention
is the DARE program in fifth grade and an annual drug awareness
week thereafter. We need to be far more aggressive in the
middle and high schools with drug education, life skills
development, family education and supervised activities. We
need to do a better job of coordinating treatment programs with
academic programs and vocational training and transitions to
work.
The second area of recommendation is the elimination of
discrimination against individuals with alcoholism and drug
dependence by making sure that Federal policy affords the same
protections and benefits afforded to individuals with other
disabilities.
Third, improvement of treatment compliance rates by
expanding the funding of drug courts and providing incentives
for welfare recipients, drug offenders and others who
participate in treatment and submit to urine monitoring.
Fourth, removal of barriers to treatment and research
resulting from the public stigma associated with substance
abuse and ignorance of its medical etiology.
I think we have heard a number of examples this morning
about how drug abuse--and it is not just the stereotype, it is
not just the stigma, it affects all of us.
Fifth, and very important, is I think the unification of
strategy across interdiction, law enforcement, treatment and
education at both the national and local levels, to better
coordinate initiatives and resource allocation, which is far
too fragmented at present. I think we have a uniquely close
cooperation here in Seminole County and in central Florida
among treatment programs, schools and law enforcement, but even
in Seminole County, there are so many different things going on
that it is often hard to keep track of what is on first and
what is on second.
Most importantly in my mind, the Federal Government can
play a role in mobilization of leadership from all segments of
our culture in a sustained initiative to reduce attitudinal and
behavioral tolerances to substance abuse. We need to bring
parents, ministers, teachers, policemen, doctors, entertainers
and all of us together in dialog and have us stand side-by-
side, shoulder-to-shoulder and take a stand personally,
everyone in his own life, everyone amongst his peers, that we
are not going to tolerate this.
Substance is a biopsychosocial issue, it is not just a
legal issue, it is not just a medical issue, it is not an
economic or moral problem, it is all of those and more. We
cannot legislate it away, although legislation will help. We
cannot buy our way out of it, although funding will help. We
cannot medicate it away, although medical research and
treatment will help. We need tenacious intolerance, driven just
as much by laws as by the innate parental instinct that places
the wellbeing of children above all else.
Thank you.
Mr. Mica. Thank you, Larry. And again, we will withhold
questions. We have one other witness, our final witness on this
panel is Mr. Scott Perkins and I think he is also an author, I
see his publication, ``Drug Identification Designer Club Drugs
Quick Reference Guide.'' We are pleased to have you with us
today and recognize you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Visser follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.049
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.050
Mr. Perkins. Thank you, Congressman. Thank you for allowing
me this opportunity to address the committee.
I was involved in drug enforcement from 1991 to 1998.
During that time, I was assigned to the Orlando Police
Department's Undercover Drug Division and SWAT Team. I was
dedicated to fighting the war on drugs and received several
awards for my efforts, including being named narcotics officer
of the year for the State of Florida. My career ended as a
result of a gunshot wound sustained during the successful
rescue of two small children who were taken hostage by a drug
user and murderer. I traded my career that day in exchange for
the children's lives. However, I was able to stop the suspect
from killing the baby girl.
My focus is now on drug education. It is apparent that the
United States is 5 to 7 years behind on drug education. Our
Nation has been inundated by a new wave of designer and club
drugs. These drugs are being consumed by an astronomical amount
of young Americans and can be found in every school, nightclub
and Rave event throughout the United States. The one place you
will not find these drugs is in the current curriculum of our
drug educational programs. Parents, law enforcement officers
and educators must be able to advise and educate others on
ecstasy, GHB, Ketamine, crystal meth, heroin, Rohypnol and LSD.
These are the most commonly abused drugs in our school and
social activities. Parents are advised to talk to the children
about drugs, which is great. However, we fail to educate these
parents on what to say and how to recognize obvious indicators
of drug use. Parents must know that Vicks inhalers, bottles of
water and baby pacifiers, among items, are all used as drug
paraphernalia, along with bags of skittles, tootsie rolls and
bottles of bubbles are used to transport and sell various
drugs. Being familiar with such terms as ``landing gear'',
``poly drug abuse'' and ``rolling'' may enable a parent to save
their children's life.
The majority of parents, law enforcement officers and
educators do not know these drugs and their indicators.
However, I do know that the youth majority knows exactly what I
am talking about. They, along with others throughout the United
States, are confronted with these drugs on a daily basis. Drug
dealers assure these individuals that these drugs can be
consumed safely and will produce a wonderful high. I am here to
testify that the people are listening to the drug dealers and
consuming a variety of designer and club drugs.
While working undercover, I witnessed that the norm is to
start the evening by consuming ecstasy, cocaine and then
crystal meth. After about an hour, marijuana is smoked,
followed by LSD. Ecstasy is then repeated to allow the high to
continue for at least 2 days. GHB, Ketamine, heroin and
Rohypnol are all used as what is called ``landing gear.'' The
landing gear is consumed to enable the person to sleep after
being unable to sleep because of the large amounts of
amphetamines in their body. This is how the majority of the
overdoses occur. In the party and drug scene, it is their
belief that the authorities should not be called when overdoses
occur. This is done for several reasons.
They believe that the drug overdose can be slept off; they
believe the victim will accumulate large medical bills and/or
they will be arrested.
The latest club remedy for a GHB overdose is to give the
victim sugar. As extreme as this situation seems, it is very
prevalent. These events usually have several thousand attendees
and I would estimate that about 90 percent are using the drugs.
By attending these events and observing such actions, I stay
current on the drug trends.
It is obvious that the problem is out of control. However,
an opportunity has presented itself that would allow the
mindset of the younger generation to be drawn away from massive
drug consumption. My methods and techniques are very unique and
effective. I am willing to share these methods with our
government in an attempt to combat this drug epidemic.
Again, thank you very much for allowing me to address the
committee.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Perkins follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.051
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.052
Mr. Mica. Thank you for your testimony and I thank all of
our witnesses today on this panel for participating.
During the last several years we have tried to dramatically
increase the amount of money that is available for treatment
and for education. Today's testimony makes me a bit concerned
that the money is not getting to some of the programs that may
be most effective. The administration had requested and we
funded also a $190 million ad campaign which I think they have
done some test programming of and I think we are tentatively
scheduled to get back the initial results of those tests. I
heard, Ms. LaBarge, you mention those ads briefly but I would
like to hear your comments on the inability to get dollars to
these local programs. Is it that they are going somewhere else
in the State or the Nation? And what the problem is there; and
then second, what about the tremendous amount of money that has
been put into these drug ads at the request of the
administration.
Ms. LaBarge. As far as the drug ads go, there has been a
tremendous increase in the drug ad campaign, and right away the
one that comes to mind is the little girl who is being asked
all these things or telling what her mother has taught her and
then the question is ``And what has your mother taught you
about drugs?'' And she goes blank. The ads, I feel have been
very, very effective. My only concern is sometimes these PSAs
are shown at 3 a.m., and maybe the type of person who is up at
3 viewing PSAs or programs is not the one that is really
concerned about whether they talk to their kids about drugs or
not--I do not know. But I think it is not just sufficient to
have the PSAs. They are excellent, but we also have to have
more cooperation with the media as to when the PSAs are shown.
The second area that you addressed as far as the funding,
Safe School funding has increased, but it is also, from what I
understand, this year going to decrease, where they are cutting
part of the Safe School funding to put it into other specific
programs which address the middle school area, which is a very
important area. However, from what I understand of the budget
that is being proposed for the grants that are coming down in
March, April, and June, that the funding will not be as much as
it was this past year for Safe and Drug Free School funds. That
is what I have been told, that the funding will be different
and it will not be as strong. I am not sure whether that is the
case, but I do believe it is.
Also with the Safe and Drug Free School funding, I think it
is crucial and I do believe Secretary Riley is very strongly in
support of this, that funding be tied to principles of
effectiveness and to research-based programs. Funding has gone
into California and other places and has been used for a yo-yo,
someone coming into the schools and showing how a yo-yo can
keep you off of drugs or jump roping or many other areas that
are not proven to be research-based. There may be funding out
there that is not getting to the right places or not being
funded for programs that are effective. I think that is
something that really needs to happen. So as far as I know now,
there is supposed to be a decrease coming down, I am not sure
whether it is or not, but this is what we have been told for
Safe School funding.
Mr. Mica. Again, the totals are increasing. In education
there is a 9-percent increase; in HHS treatment, there is 12
percent; and I have got the record of levels of funding 1981 to
1995, all of those years have been increasing. It was $2.6
billion for treatment, I think we are going to be up in the
$2.8 billion range. Most of the increases in most of the
Federal programs have been limited pretty much to cost of
living. There are exceptions to that 3 percent of whatever we
have been running, in that range, sometimes 4 percent.
I am a little bit disturbed to hear that we are
appropriating more money and it is not getting to the programs
that are effective. So we will--in fact, we will ask staff to
conduct a little investigation of where that money is going.
We also have the problem of block granting, or the question
of block granting versus getting the money to specific
programs. And the Congress has been trying to block grant and
put not as many strings and get the money to the State. I think
we need to look at the amount of dollars coming into Florida,
and you are telling me also that you think California and some
other areas have gotten more, is that what----
Ms. LaBarge. No, what I am saying is I know that some
programs, the Safe and Drug Free School funding has been
criticized in some areas and in some papers, for example, out
of the Los Angeles area, because they said they did not use the
funds to do programs that were research-based and showed the
principles of effectiveness.
As far as funding coming down in block grant, I feel that
Safe and Drug Free School funding needs to go directly to
school districts and I think it needs to be tied directly to
doing programs that affect drug education and drug prevention.
There are many school districts that do not use their funds in
the way that I believe it is intended for them to be used. And
that certainly is the case in central Florida.
Mr. Mica. Let me sample some of the other panelists. Mr.
Perkins, what about the money we are spending on the drug ads
and the increases in treatment and other areas? What would be
your emphasis, how would you recommend we spend these dollars?
Mr. Perkins. I would be more target-specific on the PSAs,
you are missing a whole generation. There is a generation out
there that is doing what is called poly drug abusing, all the
drugs I listed, ecstasy, GHB, Ketamine, euphoria, meth and a
variety of inhalants. They are doing them every single night in
abundance.
We need to address those issues and tell the kids and young
adults that these drugs can kill you and will kill you. GHB, I
was at a Rave event 2 weeks ago and after the event was over, I
walked the parking lot--this was the next day, they last 20
some odd hours--the next day, I walked the parking lot and was
talking to a couple of individuals and I asked each one of them
who does GHB and the majority of them said we do. And I started
talking to them about it and I asked each one of them, I said
what is in GHB and every single one of them said amino acids.
And in 1990, they would have been correct. GHB was banned by
the FDA in 1990. GHB that is being sold on our streets and in
our clubs and in our Rave events, the active ingredients is
engine degreaser, muriatic acid, vinegar and distilled water. I
told those young guys and girls that and they were floored,
they could not believe it.
The misinformation that is out there is unbelievable. Like
I referred to landing gear. Landing gear is what brings these
young guys and girls down after they have been up for a couple
of days because they cannot sleep. Come Sunday night, they have
to sleep either to go to work or go to school the next day and
they will be sold GHB, heroin and Ketamine to allow them to
sleep. And what we are not telling these guys and women is
that, look, you have all these amphetamines flowing through
your body, when you dose that heroin the dealer is going to
give you to make you sleep, you are not going to feel the
results you desire, but in reality, your body is actually
having the results. So they always redose and then you have
your overdose.
We need to get the message out to call the paramedics, call
fire rescue, call the police officers, because it is the norm,
I see it all the time, they leave them laying where they lie,
put them in a car, put them in a bed and just let them alone.
We need to start being very target-specific.
I went to a Zen fest in Pasco County, there were 14,000
people there, I was there. And I am here to tell you, 90
percent of the people were on some type of hard drug. We had 35
overdoses, all treated with advanced life support. So we are
missing the boat on our target audience with PSAs.
Mr. Mica. Ms. Trotter, you said that your goal in 1999 is
to try to do more with the government entities, I guess
particularly the public programs. How can we assist you--one of
the problems that we have is that when you do a Federal program
or participate in it, is all the reporting and the red tape and
the other things. How can we assist you without getting in your
program and running it and controlling it in an effective
manner and not lack accountability?
Ms. Trotter. The best way to assist a faith-based program
that does not take funding and therefore sets up the
accountability that way is to provide forums for speaking and
platforms for speaking so young people like Mike can get up and
say this is where I was, this is where I am today; as well as
information. When I talked to our counselors just before coming
here, I asked them what their biggest frustration was as
counselors and they said there is not enough emphasis put on
prevention, that most of it comes from the place of crime
prevention. So we need both, we need laws set up that once the
law is broken, there is severe penalty, but we need also the
venue on the front side to educate families and to educate--and
I am telling you when we had Scott come and talk to us, our
families were blown away at what their children were involved
in. They had no idea. And every one of those children, when
Scott asked, responded that they knew exactly what Scott was
talking about.
So the best way to assist a program like ours would be to
allow the platform; one for education, maybe the Sheriff's
Department has someone who goes around and speaks to programs--
to educate on what is on the streets today. We do not want to
wait for it to hit textbooks, then it is too late. And also to
allow the platform for speaking so that we can give back to the
community. That is really our heart in it, is to give back to
our local community.
Mr. Mica. Mr. Visser, you said that you have actually had
to reduce I guess your beds or the size of your program. Where
do you see the Federal and State money going? Is there some
lack of attention to these basic programs that you are
conducting? Do you see it going in other directions? How do
we--what do we do and where are the funds most effectively used
in your opinion?
Mr. Visser. Well, I think what we see on a regular basis
over a period of years is base funding, which, you know, we
call our foundation of major State and--generally State
funding--is it erodes each year. Since 1990, probably 6 out of
the 8 years, we have gotten some kind of a percentage decrease
in our core State funding. Now the funding that comes to us--
the Federal money that comes to us in the form of block grant
is mixed in that formula somewhere too, so whatever you are
sending us in block grant offset by State reductions has not
kept up with maintaining the status quo. The other types of
Federal money that are available to us of course are in grant
programs and I guess, if anything there, my observation is it
is splintered. You know, we have put together funding in
programs from Departments of Community Affairs, Departments of
Education, Departments of Children & Families, Departments of
Juvenile Justice, Departments of Corrections, Governor's
Office--all that gets very complicated--Medicaid. Each one has
its own body of rules and regulations and reports and, as you
can imagine, at the program level, it is complicated and
expensive to do that, let alone at the administrative and
governmental level that has to filter all that stuff down to
us. And you know, in a way I suppose we could be thankful that
some kind of prevention and treatment money has infiltrated
that many departments of government but we have got to unify
that somehow and coordinate that and begin to unify procedures.
I do a background check on my employees and I have got to
go look at what the funding source is in order to determine who
to satisfy with the background check. And you know, we are all
trying to protect the same children but they have different
requirements, is just one small example.
Mr. Mica. Sounds like administration and red tape is taking
quite a bite out of it, not to mention the paperwork and all
you must face. That may be an area that we need to pay a little
bit more attention to as far as trying to streamline that
process, although it is very difficult from our level. Any time
you try any consolidation, you run into great opposition, any
time you try to reduce the administration or levels in this
programs that sometimes start in Washington, go to Atlanta
regional office, Tallahassee and then down to the local level,
you have all these layers of opposition to make any changes.
Mr. Visser. I will say, Congressman, that the recent boost
in Federal block grant funding, we received an additional $24
or $28 million coming to Florida, does look like it is going to
make a difference in the communities, and you must have
surprised somebody with that one, they did not find a way to
absorb it in some other pool before it got to us.
Mr. Mica. It is very difficult from our standpoint, but we
are trying to turn this around and also provide the flexibility
so that these programs can operate locally and even participate
with some of the private sector programs to give them whatever
support we can because they also have been very effective.
I have more than exceeded my time, let me now yield to my
colleague, Mr. Ose.
Mr. Ose. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I would be happy to yield
additional time.
Mr. Mica. No, no, we are behind schedule.
Mr. Ose. A couple of questions, if I may.
Detective, what happens in a Rave? Just take me through----
Mr. Perkins. At an event, sir?
Mr. Ose. Yes.
Mr. Perkins. OK, what a Rave is, a Rave is typically an all
night dance party where people go to enjoy a variety of music--
house, break beat, ambient, jungle and cosmic.
Mr. Ose. Ambient, jungle, costumes?
Mr. Perkins. Cosmic.
Mr. Ose. Speak English to me here.
Mr. Perkins. It is just the various music that they go to
listen to. At the event, deejays, they spin the music----
Mr. Ose. The music type.
Mr. Perkins. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ose. OK.
Mr. Perkins. And you have anywhere from 4 to 5, maybe even
10,000 people at these events and when they are there, they do
a variety of drugs at these events to enhance the Rave
experience. And what has happened along the way is
misinformation has guided the people who have just come up into
this arena down the wrong path of poly drug abuse and dying and
having overdoses by the dozens at every event.
I was involved in this since 1991 and in 1991, that was not
the case. And as you read in my statement, I mention it, there
is an opportunity right now to sway the mindset of the younger
generation, if it is done properly, away from this massive drug
consumption, because right now there is a solid division in the
community where people are getting sick and tired of the drug
overdoses and other people who are still misinformed. So if you
use the proper technique and vessels to get your message out
there to the target audience, I think you would be very
effective.
Mr. Ose. So you are saying, back to Chairman Mica's
question, that these PSAs are currently missing that part, I
believe was your phrase.
Mr. Perkins. It is not even coming close, sir.
Mr. Ose. All right. Let me go on, if I may, Mr. Chairman.
Ms. LaBarge, you referenced California receiving a
substantial amount of the Drug Free and Safe School Act money.
That was a $5.7 billion bill and I am here to confirm that much
of the money spent in the LA School District was used, for
instance, on trips to Disneyland, magicians coming to the high
school, presentation by a member of the Globe Trotters and the
like. And I have yet to divine the connection between what we
are trying to accomplish and the expenditure of those funds.
So if I could reference, for the staff's purpose, there was
an article last spring in the LA Times about this particular
expenditure pattern and I would be happy to have my people
track it down and I am sure it is on the Internet.
Ms. LaBarge. I can tell you that we have never spent funds
for incidents like that. And this is what I am saying, that you
have got to have accountability, because it is not fair to
other school districts that are doing the job.
Mr. Ose. Ms. Trotter, I have to say you stunned me, because
in my experience in my district, I thought Families First was
an organization based largely in the Central Valley with whom I
have been working for a number of months and visiting with
Evelyn Crall there, who runs Families First, her advice was
that the connection between the various local government
agencies such as CPS in one instance, juvenile authorities in
another, the school districts, sheriffs, many times is lacking.
I am wondering if that is the case. Have you experienced that
and is there some means by which we can assist that collective
effort actually being made a little bit more efficiently?
Ms. Trotter. It is definitely our experience here, that
there is such a separation between all organizations and if
there could be a cooperative effort to bring them all together.
And with Families First, one of the premises there is the
separation just within the family. If it exists within the
family, it definitely exists throughout our society, because
the family is supposed to be the closest unit. We do need a
coordinated effort. I am really not prepared to speak on that
yet, I have some ideas that we run across with our families.
One of the successes of House of Hope is that we mandate family
participation, it is not optional. We never take what we
consider throw-aways. That is a standard that we have within
the course of the program, ending up with a child that we
consider or term a throw-away because the family has just
totally removed themselves from the program. That is definitely
the exception and not the rule. So we work the families as hard
as we do the residents in the program. They are in counseling
as well.
So coordinated efforts like that, what we would like to see
is to be able to coordinate more with the school, the school
programs in particular. Mike went and spoke to his local high
school at risk class not long ago and as a result of that,
eight of them requested from their probation officers time off
of their home arrest to be able to come to one of our Last Wave
events as an alternative to the Rave. So I think that there
could be a coordination between programs.
Mr. Ose. My major concern is the challenge that the
confidentiality provisions impose as these agencies try to get
together and work on a situation. So if you have thoughts about
that, I would welcome having you call my office or give me your
card.
Ms. Trotter. That would be wonderful.
Mr. Ose. Mr. Chairman, two more questions, if you will,
please.
I have read the material for the years that we have been
dealing with this, particularly in the nineties, and I have
tracked the nominal amount of money we have spent on treatment
as opposed to interdiction and how that mix has changed over
the years. And I have to share with you, and I may be
completely off base and I am happy to be corrected, I have to
share with you that as I see treatment dollars going up
relative to the overall budget, I am also struck by the
material here, for instance, for Florida, an increased usage,
whereas we have a relative reduction in the amount used for
interdiction, we have a relative increase in the amount used
for treatment and we have a relative increase overall in the
amount of usage. There's something disconnected there and I am
trying to figure out what the proper balance is.
Mr. Visser. Well, you know, I have people ask me that
question a lot from the public, saying hey, we heard there was
more money in treatment this year or funding has gone up, have
you felt the difference. And my typical response to that is we
are scratching such a small--reaching such a small tip of the
iceberg that, you know, a pretty sizable increase is not
something we would be able to identify a change in terms of our
local program statistics in terms of whether it is reducing the
demand or anything, and we read the same----
Mr. Ose. It is empirical data is all that I am looking at.
Mr. Visser. Right. We read the same things in the paper
that you do and the same things in the research that, you know,
experimentation usage has gone up. My believe with that is that
some of that had to do with letting up on the prevention side
and in my mind I attempted to differentiate some between
treatment, prevention and enforcement as we do here on this
panel.
But, you know, there was a heightened level of spending as
well as level of public interest in the late eighties with
drugs being the problem and with prevention, and I think we
were getting the message out at a number of levels. We had the
``Just Say No'' campaign and a number of things. People get
tired of hearing the same thing over and over and the more we
talk about getting tough, the more I think we begin to redefine
the problem somewhat. In our own experience of our own
organization, the opportunities for growth in programs have not
been so much in substance abuse as they have been in juvenile
justice and other areas that are related to youth problems. And
in a sense, in my mind, we have redefined the youth problem
more in terms of a criminal justice, a youth criminal justice
model than we have in substance abuse, and so in our own
organization's mission we go into juvenile justice because we
know that is where the drug abusers are.
I am with the rest of them, one of the things that we hear
over and over in our treatment programs from our kids is we
need to get tougher on drug users and dealers and so we are
getting tougher on them, but we need to make sure in the
meantime that we are not losing the focus. We can't just lock
them up, you have got to lock them up and treat them and have
other sanctions.
Mr. Ose. It is that balance, I am trying to find that
point.
Mr. Visser, I would like to come back privately and have
you explain to me your phrase ``criminal models of addiction''
that you used earlier.
My final question, Mr. Chairman, is: Detective, we have a
serious Colombian heroin problem here in central Florida--this
is probably too generic a question--but what is the attraction
for the kids, is it price or is it purity or----
Mr. Perkins. No, sir, not at all. The attraction for the
young adults, like I just told you, is being able to bring you
down after you have been up for several days, but what they do
not realize is that even though they snorted, they no longer
have to inject it, it is still a very addicting drug. You and I
go out this evening and if we do ecstasy and meth and all that
and we stay up a couple of days, we are given heroin to come
down so we can go to school, but what we do not realize is that
by ingesting that heroin in powder form to bring us down, that
we are going to become addicted that way and now you progress
up and start to shoot it. That is why you get all your young
addicts.
Also, it is very glamorous. I do not know why it is
glamorous, but in the Rave community, in the younger
communities, it is very glamorous, everybody is talking about
how cool it is to do heroin. You know, they need to be told
exactly how deadly heroin is. You have to realize that not many
people die from heroin overdoses. For every one death, there
are thousands of users. On Semoran Boulevard, every morning,
you go out there, we used to go out there and make heroin
arrests, dealers selling to dealers, dealers selling to users,
right in front of the McDonald's where the little kids were
playing with their moms. The heroin problem in Orlando is out
of control.
Mr. Ose. Do the people who are using the heroin understand
the difference between heroin say from the late eighties versus
the purity levels that they get now?
Mr. Perkins. I do not know. I do not even think they care.
Mr. Ose. They are just trying to get down so they can go to
work or to school.
Mr. Perkins. Yes, sir.
Mr. Ose. Thank you.
Mr. Visser. I will give you a reaction from a group of kids
I talked to yesterday in my treatment program in preparation
for this, about that fear factor. I said, you know, do you not
see people overdosing, do you not see people withdrawing, do
you not know that you cannot tell what you are buying. The
answer to that is yes, on all fronts. They see that stuff
happening, they are scared of it, but the fear of it is not
enough to keep them from using it. They will buy garbage and
drink it down by the cupfuls and not even know what the effect
is going to be and they will see somebody next to them dropping
out on an overdose and they believe that they will recover and
wake up. The fear alone is not enough to keep them from doing
it.
Ms. LaBarge. If I may, I think it is also important to note
that in the PSAs--and this is something that Scott alluded to
earlier--if they see a heroin addict shooting up and then they
smoke it and they snort it, then they cannot relate the danger.
And that is one reason why the PSAs have got to be realistic.
And if I may just make one comment. A little while ago, you
asked a question and I had a senior moment--I do not know if
you ever had a senior moment----
Mr. Ose. I have junior moments. [Laughter.]
Ms. LaBarge. When you asked the question about the Florida
Safe--not Florida, but the Safe School money, the funding. The
difference has been that about 2 years ago, they attached
violence to it, so now we have to use the Safe School funds not
only in the area of drug prevention, but it's Safe School and
Violence--it is for drug and violence prevention. So the funds
that we were using before which was totally used for drug
prevention now are being divided so that the law states it's a
Safe Drug Free School and Violence Prevention Act. And we have
to do violence prevention which is getting more play than the
drug prevention is, under that funding.
Mr. Ose. Mr. Chairman, you have been very gracious to this
freshman and I appreciate it.
Mr. Mica. Well, thank you.
I want to thank our panelists. We would love to spend much
more time with each of these witnesses that we have had today.
As you can tell, we have to do sort of a sampling, and it is
unfortunate sometimes to the public that Federal hearings are
conducted in this manner, but there are certain limits to the
number of folks that we can have testify.
I am going to excuse this panel, but you are welcome to
stay seated and I am going to open up the hearing to our fourth
panel, which is the public. And we have had some requests, we
are going to try to accommodate them for individuals who would
like to make some statement or comment.
The first individual that we are aware of in the audience
who wanted to speak is Tinker Cooper from Orlando. And Tinker
had a son, 26 years of age, who died in a 1996 heroin case. If
you could come up, identify yourself and you are recognized.
And I also understand that you, with some other parents who
have been so affected in your lives, have banded together and
produced a video and also some other education and information
resources that you wanted to make us aware of.
So you are recognized for an introduction and comments and
we will view that.
STATEMENT OF TINKER COOPER, ORLANDO, FL
Ms. Cooper. My name is Tinker Cooper. My son, Joe Stevens,
died at 26 from a heroin overdose 3 years ago.
A couple of months ago, Captain Ernie Scott from the Orange
County Narcotics Division called and asked if I would help make
a video on the drug overdoses in Orlando and the central
Florida area. I took my friend along, Jackie Thompson, and we
made this video.
In working with the families, notifying the families of
children in the video, Captain Scott realized what a mess
everybody was, so together we started a support group for
families, not just for mothers, but for families of overdose
victims. It is not just a support group, we plan to go out and
take this video everywhere we can get it--schools, private and
public; rehabs; Narcotics Anonymous; Alcoholics Anonymous;
doctors offices; businesses; anywhere we can get this thing in.
We were interviewed Tuesday, Jackie and I, by CNN. They did not
see the video because it had not been released yet.
Hank Curtis from the Orlando Sentinel is starting to write
articles about it. I understand Newsweek is supposed to get
ahold of me. So we are starting to get the word out.
Today, we have the video. It is an edited version because a
few families have not given consent to having their children's
pictures in it. So bear with us, there are a couple of little
blips of black, one period is a pretty long black area where
Jackie--there is a voice over of Jackie talking but there is no
picture because we have not gotten permission from the family
yet, but we felt this was a very important forum to present the
video and get people's reaction. At the end of the video, there
are some phone numbers for the Narcotics Division, Center for
Drug Free Living, as well as the Speak Out Hotline, if you want
to write those down. Any way to contact us, we also plan to get
very involved politically, we are going to get our face in
front of every politician we can possibly get to, to get
something done about the drug problem here in central Florida.
The video is called ``The Party is Over.'' We are not doing
the whole thing, there are some pictures in the beginning,
there is a speech by Kevin Beary that we are not using because
we are short of time right now. So we are just starting with
the meat of the thing, and hopefully you will play the entire
thing.
Thank you.
Mr. Mica. Thank you, Ms. Cooper, and if the staff will go
ahead and play the tape.
[A videotape was shown.]
Mr. Mica. I would like to thank Ms. Cooper for providing
the committee with that tape. It certainly demonstrates the
incredible personal tragedy that you have experienced, many
others in our community, and the absolute horror of this whole
drug epidemic we are seeing in our community. It also impresses
upon me the enormity of the task that we have on our
subcommittee in launching an effort, which we hope will be
effective, so that we do not have to see instances like were so
graphically displayed here today. So I appreciate what you have
done in bringing this to the attention of our community and to
others and also to this subcommittee of Congress.
Ms. Cooper. I would just like to say one more thing about
that. It is very graphic, these are actual crime scene photos
and some of them are very bad. But just maybe if a kid is
approached about drugs, these pictures will flash through his
mind, whereas I do not think this is an egg--this is your brain
on eggs, I do not think that is going to really stop them from
doing drugs. But maybe these pictures will. This is death by
drugs, it does not look like a good time.
I know it is graphic, but we do want to get it in as many
places as we can.
Mr. Mica. I can assure you that whatever we can do that
will be successful, we are going to look at what we have had
successes with and what we are doing, what we have done in the
past and what we can do in the future that will ensure success.
And we thank you. We cannot do it all from the Federal level,
it is going to take local heroes like you that have had
unfortunately personal tragedies to help get this message to
every corner of our communities across the Nation.
So thank you.
Did we have anyone else that wanted to make a public
comment or presentation? Yes, come up.
And if you would, for the record, if you could identify
yourself with your name, where you are from, and if you
represent an organization.
STATEMENT OF MACKENZIE PAUSE
Ms. Pause. My name is Kenzie Pause and I am representing--
--
Mr. Mica. Could you spell it, please?
Ms. Pause. K-e-n-z-i-e P-a-u-s-e.
I am representing the Tatje family, who lost their daughter
Christina this past July.
Mr. Mica. What was the name of the family?
Ms. Pause. Tatje. The Sheriff spoke about them earlier.
Mr. Mica. Right.
Ms. Pause. The morning of July 31st I will never forget. I
got a call from the Tatje family and Christina had overdosed on
heroin and we had tried to help her for the past few months. I
went to the family, she was a close friend of mine--I went to
the family and tried to help her. We took her to Life Streams
which is an organization in Lake County, which is actually the
only one I know of. I used drugs for 4 years, part of that time
with Christina. Fortunately I came out of it OK.
When I came out of it, I tried to help Christina and she
went to Life Streams and, you know, your House of Hope sounds
great and I really hope it is helping a lot of people, but I
think there needs to be more places like this. Life Streams did
not help Christina actually. She went there, her parents
believed me that she was using drugs out of hand. She went to
this place, they gave her drug tests and she passed, and I know
she was using cocaine and heroin. But drugs like that get out
of your system pretty fast, I mean unless you are using it
every day. I guess within 72 hours, they can be completely not
detected by a test.
Well, they counseled Christina and she told them--of
course, a normal drug user would--told them she was not a user.
They continued to release her and led the Tatje family to
believe that Christina was OK.
A few months later, she left her home to live with a
boyfriend and friends that got her into heroin and then she
overdosed with a mixture of a few drugs.
Basically, like Lake County is one of the places that the
Sheriff said needed to be added, and being from there and when
I was in high school, I know from personal experience that
small towns like are in Lake County are just amazing how many
drugs you could find there. Most people would not think of
that, they think cities, but I think because there is nothing
to do there, these places are just as important as getting out
the education and, you know, prevention there also. It is
pretty easy to find anything you want. I could find ecstasy
especially in high schools, you could find that probably more
easily than anything, more than alcohol or marijuana, you could
find heroin or ecstasy, which I think is pretty sad.
And basically my first recollection of myself with drug
education is the third grade, and in third grade, I was about
an 8-year old or 9 year old, whatever, you are very easily
influenced at that age and you will believe anything anyone
tells you. And I remember an officer coming with the Just Say
No program and of course all the kids then were like yeah, just
say no. And they really did not tell you what drugs did to you,
they kind of showed you a few drugs, said drugs are bad, do not
do them, and that was it.
As I got older, I do not remember, and there is not any
other education that I received, and when I did ecstasy and I
did other drugs, I did not know what it was doing to myself. I
had no clue actually. And when I quit, I began reading stuff
and finding out what these drugs did to me, and I had no clue.
And I just knew then what I know now, you know, it could be so
different.
And I think there should also be--I want to start going to
schools and speaking about what happened to me and I think
there should be more things like this, maybe volunteers. If
there is stuff out there, I have not seen anything that lets me
know that there is something I can do like that. I am going to
have to find that myself. I think if there was more
advertisements to get people involved that, you know, want to
get involved, because I want to get involved, and there is
nothing I know of to do. So I have to look into it myself.
People that have had first-hand experience, all the parents
that shared their stories today and people like myself that
have had--I know tons of people that know friends that this
happened to and if they could get out there and speak their
stories, I think that this is the best drug prevention
anywhere. And the pictures, the more graphic, the more reality
that is shown to children in middle school, high school age, I
think the more that it will get out there to these kids.
Mr. Mica. Well, I want to thank you for your testimony and
for your recommendations. I think it gives us some good insight
into what you faced and what is going on in our community and
also what we need to do. So thank you so much for coming
forward.
Ms. Pause. Thank you.
Mr. Mica. I am going to excuse my colleague, Mr. Ose, who
has to go all the way to Sacramento, CA in a few minutes, catch
a flight, and we will see you back in Washington soon.
Mr. Ose. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. Mica. But we will continue and it all becomes part of
the record.
Could you identify yourself, please?
STATEMENT OF COLLEEN COOK
Ms. Cook. My name is Colleen Cook.
Mr. Mica. Colleen Cook?
Ms. Cook. Uh-huh.
Basically a lot of what MacKenzie said is very true. A lot
of the things that were said today about we need to help young
people. But the big focus that you guys were saying is ``we,''
and when you said ``we,'' what you meant is adults, people in
suits.
But a lot of the people that were here earlier--I am 18
years old, I lost a friend to heroin. That is not how it is
supposed to be. You should focus ``we'' to be a larger group.
The young people today, we can and we want to help
ourselves. Nobody is going to reach out to the kids as much as
people our own age. I mean when we are standing there in
auditoriums with 300 kids, half of us are finishing our algebra
homework for the next period, we are not going to listen to the
police officers that are saying drugs are bad. They are going
to listen to the stories brought from kids their age who have
been in the circumstances and understand it.
I think you should focus, like Mackenzie was saying, there
is not a lot of programs really. I want to get out in the
community, I have done a lot of public speaking in the past
before this happened to me, and I am willing to tour to go to
public schools like throughout the State. I am in college and I
live in Tallahassee. I would love to go to the high schools and
explain the story, what it is like to wake up and know your
friend is dead, what it is like to wake up and have to call
your other friends that morning and tell them their friend is
dead, what it is like to call and hear their screams because
they know their friend is dead. If kids heard that instead of
drugs are bad, they would listen, they would not finish their
algebra homework, they would not take a 10-minute nap during
the lecture. There is not enough in schools.
We all had the Say No to Drugs in fifth grade, that is all
we had. Ninth grade, they kind of did a little thing there, but
there is the little drug week where they pass out stickers that
say do not do drugs and everyone wears them and the drug
addicts cut the ``don't'' off and make ``do drugs,'' but that
is not what we need. We do not need stickers, we need people
coming to the schools speaking to the kids and we need people
with stories and pasts similar to theirs.
Mr. Mica. I want to thank you for coming forward and also
sharing with us your experience. I think that some of what we
have heard today looks like we need to increase some of the
programs in the schools and do a little bit more effective job.
And we appreciate your willingness to even participate, not
only here but in the community.
Ms. Cook. Thank you for listening.
Mr. Mica. Thank you so much. They are going to take your
names and addresses, those who are commenting.
Yes, sir. Could you identify yourself?
STATEMENT OF KERRY WILENSKY
Mr. Wilensky. My name is Kerry Wilensky, W-i-l-e-n-s-k-y. I
am a treatment professional here in central Florida. I work for
the State of Florida Department of Corrections in one of the
local State jails doing treatment, substance abuse treatment
for hard core criminal addicts.
My background is fairly unique. I have a B.A. degree in
psychology, I have a Masters of science degree in counseling
and psychology, I have a Juris Doctorate degree in law. I am a
certified addiction professional by the Certification Board of
Addiction Professionals of Florida. I am also certified in
clinical hypnosis.
But in addition, I personally am a survivor. I had a 20-
year history of addiction, and also had 5 years of heroin
addiction, which resulted indirectly in 2\1/2\ years in the
Federal penitentiary. So I think that personally and
professionally I am qualified at least to address some of these
issues.
My feeling, because I work in this particular area, is that
the focus that we have done has been a little backward. My
recollection was that the budget, the Federal budget, for this
year was $15 billion. Of that $10 billion was for the supply,
interdiction and only $5 billion was from the demand side. I
will tell you, Congressman, that you cannot prevent drugs from
reaching those people. In this country today, the largest per
capita drugs are in the penitentiaries. And if you cannot keep
them out of an environment like that, I do not think you can
keep them out of the environment in our streets.
But I will tell you if we can focus on the demand side, how
long would you say Toyota would continue to manufacture cars
and ship them to this country if nobody purchased them? They
would find another market for them. And as Governor Martinez
said earlier, these international cartels are so well funded
and so good that they will find a market for them. Let them
find another market other than our country.
The other issue I wanted to raise is I have a 19 year old
stepson, who at 10 last night, I picked up from the county jail
here in Orlando, who was incarcerated for charges as a result
of drug use. I have very good insurance working for the State
of Florida, yet I could not afford, and if I could afford, I
probably could not find, treatment for that boy. However, once
he becomes involved in the criminal justice system, there is
plenty of treatment for him. And I think that is what Mr.
Visser was referring to about his criminal-based treatment.
I think that it is a sad state when we have to have our
young people get involved in the criminal justice system just
to get some treatment or some help. My feeling is that if the
Federal Government, with all of the money that they have
appropriated now, would kind of look to put money into
treatment and prevention rather than waiting for the criminal
justice system to get involved, it would certainly benefit us
individually.
As a taxpayer, I find it a little disheartening that we
lock somebody up for a year and it costs anywhere from $25,000
to $40,000 a year, depending on the State, to keep an
individual incarcerated. Yet it is only $12,000 a year to put
them in residential treatment. It certainly is much more cost-
effective.
In addition, recently the Department of Justice has
published a 10-year outcome study of the drug courts that have
been involved in this country. And my understanding, as I
recall that particular publication, was that they have been 80
percent effective by getting these people before they get
involved in the criminal-justice system.
So in my opinion, if we, as citizens, could focus on this
rather than having to stand up and worry about bringing the
drugs in, it would certainly be a lot more effective.
Last, I have an article here that I had published in the
Orlando Sentinel on November 9 in the ``My Word'' column, which
made the analogy of heroin as a serial killer. And I would like
very much if this could be made a part of the permanent record.
Mr. Mica. Without objection, so ordered. Thank you.
Mr. Wilensky. Thank you very much. And I do appreciate the
opportunity to address you.
Mr. Mica. Thank you. Just a comment. The percentage of
money spent on international programs, source country; for
example, the 1998 enacted was 3 percent of the entire budget.
It had been--that is 1998 enacted, 3 percent of the entire
budget. Back in 1991 when he was Drug Czar, it was 6 percent,
so it has been cut by 50 percent. And treatment and demand
reduction is now 34 percent; in 1991, it was the same 34
percent. And law enforcement is 53 percent and then
interdiction is 10 percent. So those are the figures according
to the National Drug Office. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Wilensky. Thank you, sir.
[The information referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.053
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.054
Mr. Mica. Yes, ma'am, if you could please identify
yourself.
STATEMENT OF CHRISTINA MONTAIUTI
Ms. Montaiuti. My name is Christina Montaiuti, spelled M-o-
n-t-a-i-u-t-i, and I serve as the clinical director of a
treatment program here in Orlando that is called SAFE,
Substance Abuse Family Education.
I would like to just present a couple of scenarios to this
panel. One is of a young woman who recently died. She was a
client of ours up until 2 years ago. She got caught after she
got out with 250 pills of Tylenol II, and never got--got
arrested for a few days, got off, never got charged because of
some powerful attorneys. Because of that, she went back to the
streets right away, started dancing at Rachel's and died. My
question about that was how could a child--well, she was not a
child then--how could anybody get off after having done such a
thing, without any legal consequences.
And to that extent, working with adolescents all the time,
I would like to ask a question. How come so many of the kids
that we work with get off so easily and do not even get any
consequences for their behavior once they get caught with
paraphernalia?
Another small scenario that I wanted to present was that
one of our counselors and myself served as volunteers at a
local middle school and led a group for the school of young
boys. We found out that several of these boys were already
involved in heavy drug use, but because of confidentiality, we
could not tell their parents. So really we know where these
kids are headed, but we cannot address the issue with the
parents.
I just wanted to make a comment on the advertising and what
our kids say about it. They come in and I think the
advertising, as I have seen it, against drug use, is effective
for people that do not use drugs and will not, because it is
effective with me, I remember it. But most of the kids who are
going to use drugs are not going to look at something so
unsophisticated as an egg on a frying pan. They want to look at
something that will challenge them like the video games that
they use all the time, something that is more stimulating to
them and that would actually take their interest and hold it
for awhile.
The last thing I wanted to say was that we offer, like the
House of Hope, some public community education training and
they are free. And they are actually some of the testimonies of
the kids who have commenced the program, are still in the
program or graduated from the program. And a lot of times, we
find resistance in high schools because they say they are drug
free high schools and they might be in a very wealthy area and
so they have a hard time admitting that drugs might be a
problem. We are not able to offer the service.
So those are the scenarios that I do not really have any
answers.
The last thing I wanted to do was introduce a couple of the
parents of the clients that we have in treatment. I am not sure
if one or both wanted to share with you just a minute. Thank
you for your time.
Mr. Mica. Thank you. We would welcome their comments. If
you would identify yourself, please.
STATEMENT OF SANDRA MONROE
Ms. Monroe. My name is Sandra Monroe and I am the parent of
a teenage drug addict.
Mr. Mica. You will have to speak up as close as possible.
Ms. Monroe. OK. I am the mother of a teenage drug addict.
We are currently in this program called SAFE, and if it was not
for SAFE, my son would be dead, I would be sitting in the same
chair that the lady was there just before, who did the video.
I would just like to share with you, as Ms. Montaiuti did,
the resistance, because my son and I now are far enough in the
program that we can go out and talk to the community, and we do
find resistance. The schools, they do not want to hear it.
I would love to see that it is mandated in these middle
schools that not just the kids be talked to, the parents,
because just like Detective Perkins said, if I had known--I had
no clue what GHB was and my son did heroin. He has done every
drug that you have listed, he has been at the Raves, started at
16, 14. Had I been educated, I cannot say I could have stopped
it, but I certainly would have been helped.
And every time my child got into trouble, he was turned
right back to me and said you deal with it, it is a parenting
problem. Yeah, it is, and I made mistakes along the way, but
there is nobody out there to help me and educate me. And the
parents out here need help. These drugs are killing our kids.
Let us talk to the parents too, not just the kids. I want my
son to give back to the community and talk to the kids, but I
also want to give back to the parents who have no clue what is
going on. And we need your help there, we need you to tell the
schools to let us in and have the parents there.
Thank you.
Mr. Mica. Thank you for your comments. I am glad that has
been raised. I think the last time we came into the community,
we heard the same thing and now maybe we can, at least in my
position now, I will try to weigh in and see if we cannot get
some of those programs into the schools and started a little
bit better organized and on a more frequent basis.
Yes, ma'am. Would you identify yourself, please?
STATEMENT OF JEANETTE BABETTS
Ms. Babetts. Hi, my name is Jeanette Babetts. I am also a
parent of a child in the SAFE program. My daughter was put into
treatment when she was 13, she is 14 now.
I would just like to reiterate what Sandra Monroe said
about making it mandatory in the schools that parents know
about the drugs. I was naive and as a parent, I did not want to
admit my child could be doing drugs, just based on her behavior
alone. So again, I would just like to reiterate what Sandra
Monroe said, and thank you for your time.
Mr. Mica. Thank you for your comments.
STATEMENT OF TONY GOODWIN
Ms. Goodwin. Congressman Mica, I have met you before, my
name is Tony Goodwin. This is Jonathan Goodwin. I spoke to you
at another meeting.
Mr. Mica. Yes, and can you also repeat your name?
Ms. Goodwin. Tony Goodwin and this is Jonathan Goodwin.
He died on June 30, 1996 of a heroin and Rohypnol overdose.
I spoke to you before, you shook my hand, looked me in the
eyes, said you were sorry for my loss and you would try and do
something.
It has been 2 years, I have been away from the central
Florida area and I am back now. And I have to admit to you that
nothing has changed. The only thing that has happened is more
people have died and become addicted. And as a human being and
a parent, you know, something else has to be done. It is really
sad to think that these parents have to let pictures of their
dead children go on the news, and that is the only thing that
is probably going to reach these kids. It has come to that, it
has come to showing dead bodies, it is coming to tell the
stories of how my son was with his friends, they gave him the
heroin and they sat there and they watched him and they figured
after 4 hours, he was not getting back up, and they were right.
He is still dead and things are still going on, more people are
still dying.
And I really feel sorry about that whole thing, and I want
to do what I can but it is going to take a whole community.
Another thing, when you have a meeting like this,
Congressman Mica, I think you need to have it at night so that
parents can bring their kids in. This should not be empty, this
should be full of people because there are a lot of people
hurting. And what is wrong with that? And I will put it to you
the same way my son would put it to me--what is up with that?
What is going on and why has this not stopped.
And that is really all I have to say, and I pray for all
these kids out there and all the parents and just God bless us
all because we are in a world of hurt right now as a Nation.
Thank you.
[Applause.]
Mr. Mica. Thank you. I will say just for the record the
reason I am here and the reason you came back is because
neither of us are satisfied with what has been done. The
Speaker asked me to take on this assignment. For 6 years I
wanted to be chairman of another subcommittee, but I felt that
this was absolutely the most important thing I could do. I put
my wishes and my past work on transportation aside and chose to
accept the challenge he gave me. We have done some things, but
as I said in my opening statement, not enough. And I hope as
chairman--this is my first week chairing this subcommittee--
that we can raise this not only to a community level, but to a
national level. So that is why I am back here with you today,
because I am not satisfied with where we have been, what we
have done and where I saw we were headed. So we will be in this
together, and I thank you for coming back and that may be what
it is going to take, every one of us. Thank you.
Yes, sir, you are recognized.
STATEMENT OF VITO PISCHETOLA
Mr. Pischetola. My name is Vito, V-i-t-o, last name is
Pischetola, P-i-s-c-h-e-t-o-l-a.
Mr. Mica. Thank you, sir.
Mr. Pischetola. Thank you.
I would like to say that I am here because I am a
recovering alcoholic and addict also. And I work as a
paraprofessional in the field and I work for a company called
SAFE.
I suffer from the most deadly self-inflicting disease there
is short of suicide and I would like to know how anybody can
put a price on someone else's life when the money is there.
And another statement I want to make is it takes people a
long time to make that transitional change. I have been using
or abusing drugs for 20 years. I have seen people get court
ordered to treatment for 30 days. Thirty days does not do
nothing for nobody but clear the fog, if possible. I just want
to know how they can just stipulate 30 days, 90 days, when it
takes a lot longer, and it is a life long battle.
I am a survivor, but I keep on fighting every day.
Thank you for hearing me.
Mr. Mica. Thank you, sir, for your comments.
Yes, sir--ma'am, go right ahead.
STATEMENT OF DAVID DYER
Mr. Dyer. My name is David Dyer, from here in Orlando and I
am just here because I am an interested citizen. Let me give
this to you.
Mr. Mica. Is this a formal statement?
Mr. Dyer. No, that is not a formal statement, it is
something I happened to have in my pocket and I heard you
discussing with the former Governor earlier, Mayor Giuliani's
stance on the methadone programs and that just happens to be an
argument or an article concerning the fact that Mayor Giuliani
has just reversed his stance on methadone treatment centers in
New York City.
I happen to be a former investigator for the Texas
Department of Health. I spent 3 years inspecting methadone
treatment programs in the mid and late seventies, all in the
State of Texas under contract from FDA for compliance with
Federal regs. And I can tell you first hand that what these
people are doing is the right way to approach this drug
problem, which is to put 90 cents into prevention and 10 cents
into law enforcement, and this problem, through education and
treatment will go away much quicker. I think these people
probably agree with me.
The answer is not going from 55,000 people in prison to
455,000 people in the last 10 years; the answer is prevention,
education and in addition, doing away with some of the hysteria
surrounding this problem. It is just like this sign, 99.9
percent of drugs save lives. The discussion here is about 1
percent or less of the drugs out there that are being abused
and used irresponsibly by a small percentage of people. They
need to be educated.
Written on that piece of paper that I would recommend to
you and to the reporters here in the audience as they begin to
write their articles is a book called ``Drug Crazy'' by a
fellow named Mike Gray. Mike Gray is the author of ``The China
Syndrome'' that came out and was a movie just before the Three
Mile Island incident. Mike Gray has done 6 or 7 years worth of
research into the drug history in the United States and the
history of the drug war and it would be well worth reading by
anyone who is interested in a rational explanation of this
problem, and some of the potential solutions in light of the
fact that what we have been doing for the last 25 years
apparently is not working.
Thank you very much.
Mr. Mica. Thank you. Sir, you referred to this Giuliani
article here, ``Reverses Himself on Methadone,'' did you want
that in the record?
Mr. Dyer. It should be in the record.
Mr. Mica. OK, without objection, so ordered. Incidentally
too, I will be meeting with Mayor Giuliani next week and he
will also be testifying before our subcommittee on the week of
the 21st I think of February. So we are going to look at what
he has done, we are going to look at all these programs and
assess them, evaluate them and try to adopt what is effective
and whatever it takes to solve this problem.
So I thank you, sir, for your time.
Mr. Dyer. If you go back and take a look at the history of
the approach to drugs taken by Nixon in the first 3 or 4 years
of the seventies when the methadone treatment programs first
became popular and were being implemented and look at the
progress that is being made until the point in time that Nixon
did not need that as a political issue any longer and reversed
himself and started interdiction, and compare these two
periods, I think you will be quite surprised at what you will
find.
Mr. Mica. Thank you for your comments, sir.
[The information referred to follows:]
[GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T5953.055
Mr. Mica. We have a lady here that wanted to comment.
STATEMENT OF SHIRLEY ZAGOREC
Ms. Zagorec. My name is Shirley Zagorec, spelled Z-a-g-o-r-
e-c. I came basically because of the article that was written
in the Orlando Sentinel. I am a citizen, do not represent
anyone but myself, I came because I care.
I do not think it is right to judge everybody, and
everybody is like back and forth. I sat back there--I am a free
lance writer, I do novels, I do not do political writing, so my
heart is pounding 1,000 miles an hour, but I sat back and
listened because this is my first public hearing and I wanted
to give--you know, I care.
My question as I sat down and wrote a lot of things was I
hear everybody, I hear the statements, analyze who is better
than the others, I hear a lot of facts, you know, numbers do
not mean anything to me--give me the price of a car, tell me
what my payment is. But people like, you know, Mr. Perkins, you
know, those things touch my heart more because those people are
out in society really helping. I think his statement was
compassion, you know. I am a single person--I am not married,
let me put it that way, I am 39 years old. These young kids
come up here and just pour their heart out, you know. I have
never done drugs in my life, never had a reason to, never saw
it, came from a small town. My parents were great. So did I
miss that scene? Yes. Was it an individual choice? Yes. I did
not need it. You know, life can be up and down, there are a lot
of problems. You know, the context of not Christian or
whatever, I do think faith is something that we really need to
work on. Education or whatever, I think those are essential
things.
You know, I do not know if everybody is familiar with
Danielle Steele, she is a novel writer, but her--she just put a
book out, her son, 17 years old died, he was a manic
depressive. You know, she raised nine kids during this process
and the whole thing was she knew there was something wrong, the
doctors said no, it is just growing up, it is part of being a
child. For years, this went on and on and on. You know, finally
there was a lady who cared--key point. I think when we start
caring, we start wanting to do something.
I basically came here thinking OK, I am listening, now what
can I do as a citizen. I have never done it, I cannot
experience it, you know. This detail was very graphic and
understandable, it helps me understand. In 1981, I was 20,
people said they were smoking roaches, I thought ``those bugs
on the ground?'' Oh, my God. Yes, I know--I am still naive
about drugs. I have to read about it to understand it. You
know, I have never done it.
Some of the things that I saw, you know, that was talked
about, I do not think there is a right or wrong--well, yes,
there is a right and wrong, but I do not think that one person
is better than another, I think the money does need to go
somewhere, I understand that. I heard a lot about money, money,
money, but you know what, the bottom line is money does not buy
the kids life. You cannot buy happiness.
I read recently, it was very interesting, we prepare for
war all the time, we take money and build weapons, we prepare
for war on a daily basis. But how do we prepare for peace? You
know, that is a different concept. What would we do.
So how can we help these kids? How can I help these kids,
what can I do as a citizen, you know. I do a lot of volunteer
work, I see the drugs, I see a lot of invalids, people who are
left at home--that is awful, you know, devastating. The world
needs help from a lot of volunteers who care and I think that
is where it comes from, is my heart.
So am I stronger at some point like these people that say
compassion? Yes, I believe that too. I do not think money is
going to solve all the problems, I think it will help. You
know, I think the people who are really sincere, it comes from
the heart.
That is just a personal point of view, you know. I was
encouraged by this. It was interesting and I learned a lot from
it. I would encourage more people to come out and listen; if
they care, that is what they will do. It is just that if you
are not immediately involved in it, you do not do it. If you
have never done drugs, you do not understand. I came because I
do care and I came asking what can we do.
Mr. Mica. Thank you and maybe you have gained a little bit
of insight as to what may be done in our community and across
the country.
Sir, you wanted to testify?
STATEMENT OF JOHN PERKINS
Mr. Perkins. Mr. Chairman, my name is John Perkins.
Mr. Mica. Perkins?
Mr. Perkins. Yes, sir.
Mr. Mica. Thank you.
Mr. Perkins. Mr. Chairman, I am a retired police captain
from Tampa, I am also an educator and I know both sides of the
issue----
[Interruption from public address system.]
Mr. Mica. I am sorry, would you start over?
Mr. Perkins. My name is John Perkins, I am a retired police
captain from Tampa and I am also an educator, head of the--
Director of the Police Program at Brevard Community College. So
I have covered both aspects of this.
There is a saying going around that if you arrest a
murderer, you take a murderer off the streets. If you arrest a
drug dealer, you create a job opening. And there are dozens and
dozens of drug dealers out there waiting for that corner to
open up. So there certainly needs to be a lot of emphasis on
drug enforcement.
But I really think that if you harken back to what most of
the parents have said here today, it is education, the parents
did not know. They do not know what is out there, they do not
know what their children are exposed to. There is emphasis
today on the question as to are the PSAs working. Well, if you
will notice, most of the PSAs, the message is parents, talk to
your children about drugs. But what these parents are telling
you here today, Congressman, is they do not know what to say to
their kids about drugs. There is no education out there for the
parents to intelligently discuss the possibilities of what
could happen to them if they use these drugs.
As my son--and that is my son up there--as he said earlier,
there are people out there that will talk intelligently to
these children about drugs and that is the drug users and that
is the drug dealers. And I think if you put the emphasis on
education and treatment, I think that way you will eliminate
the job possibilities of the drug dealers.
Thank you.
Mr. Mica. Thank you, sir, we appreciate your comments.
We have another lady here. If you could, ma'am, identify
yourself for the record. Thank you.
STATEMENT OF DEBBIE SMITH
Ms. Smith. My name is Debbie Smith.
Mr. Mica. Did you say Debbie Smith?
Ms. Smith. Yes.
Mr. Mica. OK, thank you. Just take your time and tell us
what you would like.
Ms. Smith. I am sorry, my daughter died.
Mr. Mica. You had a daughter that died from a drug
overdose?
Ms. Smith. Two months ago.
Mr. Mica. Two months ago.
Ms. Smith. I just happened to see the announcement on
Channel 2 that this meeting would be today and I told my
family, I have got to come. I brought my sister and I am
sitting back here trying to get my nerve together.
Mr. Mica. Well, we appreciate your coming out and I know
how difficult it must be for you.
Where are you, what city, ma'am?
Ms. Smith. I live at Ormond Beach.
Mr. Mica. Ormond Beach, and you took the time to come over,
which we appreciate that. We have heard today that almost every
community in central Florida has lost children, young people
and adults to heroin, to cocaine, to other drug abuse. We know
how difficult it must be for you and appreciate your coming
forward.
Do you have any specific recommendations?
Ms. Smith. Yes, I do. My daughter, Jacqueline Smith was 24
years old, she was a nurse, she had a house, she had a job. She
fell in with the wrong crowd at a depressed time when her
boyfriend left her and within a year she was dead. She lost her
house, she lost her car, she lost everything.
One thing you ought to talk about today and I have not
heard, she was 24, she had no insurance. I could not get her
service anywhere, I took her to the State, they sent me from
department to department. I went all over the Justice Center in
Daytona Beach trying to get that girl some kind of service,
they said I am sorry, you are too old, you do not qualify, I am
sorry, you do not have a child. If you were pregnant or if you
had a child, we could give you anything you need. She said do I
need to get pregnant? They said we would prefer you do not. I
taught that kid all of her life, I said you act responsibly
about your body and what you do with it.
She went--finally we got her into a treatment center, they
would not give her mental health counseling because the two of
them are not combined together--they should be. I got her to a
counseling program, they would not treat her, they would not
talk to her on the phone, they sent me back and forth for
months before I could get something coordinated for this kid.
She had a bad moment, she fell off the wagon, she felt she
could not recover herself and she was dead within a week. She
had been coming back, she had been looking forward to the
future and just like was in the video--it is not too graphic,
we look at Terminator II all the time, movies are much worse
than that. I have a shirt in my laundry room that has got blood
on it. I never understood what the blood was from, now I know
from the video what exactly happened to her. I have not gotten
my crime scene photos back yet and she has been dead for
months. I cannot get a report from MV, I cannot get a report
from the Sheriff, nobody is going to help me do anything, I am
caught in the middle. I have not found anybody in Volusia
County that can help me as a parent, as a victim or--what am I?
They came to my door and said I am sorry, your daughter is
dead, goodbye. They can give you a counselor or a--no, not a
counselor, a preacher, we will be glad to help you. Well, I
have not heard from anybody and it is 2 months, my whole
family, we have been trying to come to grips with the whole
thing.
To me, where we are is insane. I keep calling these people
saying why am I caught between you two people, can you not tell
me anything?\ There is nobody, to me, that is helping me
coordinate what has happened to my daughter. They know the
people, they know the situation--it is what was in that video.
And she was never raised that way, to be like that. She fell in
with a group that let her lay there for multiple hours, play
the situation out. And they cannot decide what to put on the
death certificate, they do not know if it was a suicide or it
was an actual overdose. I am caught between the two. That is a
fun thing to live with through with the holidays.
So all I would like to say is I would like somebody in our
neck of the woods, even in the State, to coordinate the mental
health and the drug rehab thing and get it so we can have
access to it over there.
Thank you.
Mr. Mica. I thank you for coming out and I know how
difficult this has been for you personally. I think you have
also commented here today on the need for better coordination
and we will look at that. We heard the same thing from some of
the panelists, so we--our job is to look at what is being done,
what is not being done and then see if we can improve the
situation. But there is no question the incredible impact this
scourge has had on so many families and parents and loved ones
in our community.
I do not see any further requests for testimony at this
time.
I would like to take this opportunity to thank each and
every one of you who has remained through the full hearing and
who have participated in the hearing, whether in the audience
or coming forward today to provide testimony. It is my hope
that we can turn this whole situation around. We have seen in
our community the ravages of illegal narcotics and drug abuse
and the need for better programs, better emphasis, better
utilization of our resources and also making this whole
situation public and that is part of the reason for the hearing
and one of the reasons that I wanted to start here in our own
community before we get wound up with the hearings in
Washington and across the country.
So again, I thank those who participated, our staff from
Washington and others who have been with us.
There being no further business to come before the
subcommittee, I hereby adjourn this meeting.
[Whereupon, at 2:53 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
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