Date:         Fri, 24 Oct 2008 19:21:53 +0100
Reply-To:     Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
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Sender:       Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
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From:         Steve Abrams <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Cedar, was: Aren't recordings original sources?
Comments: To: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>
Comments: cc: David Lennick <[log in to unmask]>
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Tom Fine has a tendency, which he should learn to control, to shoot from the 
hip.  He has previously condemned the highly regarded transfers of Ward 
Marston, Mark Obert-Thorne and David Lennick on Naxos.  The time has come to 
call his bluff.  Let him give us a list of reissues he condemns by these 
restoration engineers and others (e.g, Seth Winner, Roger Beardsley et al.). 
I say he hasn't a clue as to what is involved in this kind of work and that 
he appears to be ignorant and abusive. Tom's reputation is based on the fact 
that he is an expert on mommy and daddy.  We know nothing of his own work, 
not even the name of his company.

Clark Johnson does a better job of protecting himself, but he too is short 
on factual examples, critiques of the best works of restoration.

I say to both of you,  Put up or shut up!

Kind regards,

Steve Abrams



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Clark Johnsen" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, October 24, 2008 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cedar, was: Aren't recordings original sources?


> On Thu, Oct 23, 2008 at 7:29 PM, Tom Fine 
> <[log in to unmask]>wrote:
>
>> Well, I'm certainly not vain enough to speak for anyone else on this 
>> list,
>> but ...
>>
>> Then we apparently don't have on this list the majority of reissue
>> producers and remastering engineers out there. Their lousy work speaks 
>> for
>> itself.
>
>
> And there you have it!
>
> But one must wonder whether joining this list would serve the cause.
>
> Perhaps an outreach effort should be made?
>
> clark
>
>>
>>
>> -- Tom Fine
>>
>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Parker Dinkins" <
>> [log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 6:20 PM
>>
>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cedar, was: Aren't recordings original sources?
>>
>>
>> I think most people here are aware of all that.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Parker Dinkins
>>> CD Mastering + Audio Restoration
>>> http://masterdigital.com
>>>
>>>
>>> on 10/23/08 3:53 PM US/Central, Tom Fine wrote:
>>>
>>> Not when it's overused and sucks what little life is left out of the
>>>> sound.
>>>> With all digital NR, it's a very fine line between slightly improving
>>>> clarity
>>>> and sucking the air, space and depth out of the sound. My own bias is
>>>> always
>>>> toward less but I've made and heard others' examples of judicious use 
>>>> of
>>>> digi-tools where audibility and clarity are improved. Rare with
>>>> well-recorded
>>>> full-range music; the trained ear seems to prefer some hiss or surface
>>>> noise
>>>> with the entire pallet of music as opposed to a quieter background with
>>>> some
>>>> colors muted.
>>>>
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Parker Dinkins" <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, October 23, 2008 3:52 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Cedar, was: Aren't recordings original sources?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tom Fine wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, many 78 transfers made for CD sets are awful. People do seem to
>>>>>> lop
>>>>>> off the bass -- these records had plenty of low end, it was the TOP 
>>>>>> end
>>>>>> where they had no musical content. Yet people roll off the bass 
>>>>>> (maybe
>>>>>> because they have rumble-plagued playback systems) and crank up the 
>>>>>> EQ
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> the upper midrange, which just accentuates the surface noise and
>>>>>> unnatural
>>>>>> resonances from the original recording devices. Then you apply an
>>>>>> overly
>>>>>> aggressive treatment with CEDAR or whatever else and you get ... 
>>>>>> crap.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Seems like CEDAR would be just what is required after all that 
>>>>> torture.
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Parker Dinkins
>>>>> CD Mastering + Audio Restoration
>>>>> http://masterdigital.com
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>