Date:         Wed, 24 Jan 2007 18:09:11 -0500
Reply-To:     Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
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Sender:       Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
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From:         Tom Fine <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: help in fair pricing of reel to reel machines
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Hi Phillip:

We've discussed this topic at length on the Ampex list. The conclusion is, pack like it will have to 
pass through a rebel army and it MIGHT get there OK. Insure to full market value and then some. Take 
pix of your packaging so they can't claim you mis-packed it. Sometimes, things work out perfectly, 
other times not so much. It's the nature of the beast.

-- Tom Fine

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "phillip holmes" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:12 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] help in fair pricing of reel to reel machines


> This guy only live 40 miles from me.  The reason I asked about shipping is if I sell one, I'd like 
> for it to get there in one piece.
> Phillip
>
> Richard L. Hess wrote:
>> Hello, Bruce,
>>
>> Of course, condition drives price...and with these machines it's more than just head condition.
>>
>> I sold four Otari MTR-10/12s (including two 4-channel 1/2" ones) for an APR-5003v and $500 and 
>> was happy they were gone (sorry, Bruce, but we all have our pet machines).
>>
>> Speaking of pet machines, mine are the Sony APR-5000 and the Studer A810 -- I'm sure that I would 
>> love a Studer A820 but, for me, being able to have a deep stock of otherwise unobtanium parts is 
>> more important than the small increase in enjoyment (and probably not sound quality) offered by 
>> the A820 (others will disagree, I'm sure).
>>
>> For pristine APR-5003v's, I've paid up to $500 plus shipping. But they better be working and 
>> pristine. Things to look for, are these APR5001 (mono) APR4002 (stereo) APR5003 (timecode) 
>> APR5003v (timecode plus)?
>> Take one of the large idlers apart (it should just unscrew). Is there a cup and a 1/2" roller? If 
>> not, it's a very old machine and I would probably pay $100-200 at the most depending on head 
>> configuration. Steel instead of ceramic tape lifters would also put it into this category. I'd 
>> pay little for a mono machine (they were at least listed in the catalog) but the good news is you 
>> can probably convert it to stereo and it MIGHT have seen less transport wear. The best deals are 
>> the APR-5003 or especially the APR-5003v that saw life sitting in a video post room that was 
>> there 'cause you had to have one but it never saw any real use.
>>
>> There are three NAB head blocks, two with brass-coloured Woelke R/P heads, one of those has four 
>> heads and is off the 5003-series as it does centre-track timecode. The third type uses Applied 
>> Magnetics wideface heads which approach the Studer heads in low frequency bump performance. 
>> Beware of wear and previous relappings, however.
>>
>> The Studer A807 is widely used in archives, but while it is improved over the A810 in some areas, 
>> it doesn't offer the alignment flexibility of the A810 and I think the A810's symmetric transport 
>> may be equal to or superior to the A807's, but the DC motors in the A807 may be a bit gentler and 
>> the shuttle control is a real plus. I use an A807 with CBC stereo monitor bridge for tape prep 
>> (with a 4-track Nortronics head and switching that lets me assign the four channels to either of 
>> the two electronics channels. These go for $500 and up in good condition, especially if they 
>> record (there are a lot of PB only A807s out there). My best A807 and my two best A810s came from 
>> the TV studio scenario described above.
>>
>> Later MCIs (-C version?) use the same Woelke heads as the APRs so that might be a reason to get 
>> it, but otherwise with the other machines available, I can't see a reason to take one and 
>> maintain it.
>>
>> The Ampexes are workhorses and Tom Fine told you the truth about the tube electronics on the 
>> 350/351, but it may also be a transistorized AG-350. The transistorized machines don't sell for 
>> all that much (generally well under $500 and often in the $200 range). If I were not well endowed 
>> with spares for the complex APR and A810 and A807 machines that I had, and I were interested in 
>> machines that can be repaired forever using common tools and techniques, the Ampexes would be my 
>> first choice. These are generally not constant tension devices and have been reported to produce 
>> in some instances speed variations between start and end of a reel, although others contest this 
>> fact.
>>
>> The electronic alignment of the APR and the A807 (although the latter is more limited) is very 
>> nice IMHO. All the others have screwdriver tweaks.
>>
>> How far away from you does this guy live? How far away from me <smile> (I never say no to more 
>> pristine APR-5003 or APR-5003v machines)? Send me digipix off list and I'll comment more.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Richard
>>
>>
>