Date:Fri, 5 Jan 2007 22:08:59 -0500
Reply-To:Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
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From:"D. Blake Werts" <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:Re: Libraries disposing of records
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I believe that my post didn't communicate my idea clearly. I do agree that
I have a very naive Utopian dream. That aside, I do agree with you on many
accounts. I'm just of the type that wants to insure we keep, somehow, an
example of each "record," be it written, audio, etc., is preserved
somewhere. (I truly didn't mean every copy!) If there are not at least a
few of us that do continue to dream, and build the expertise needed, ...
then we have no more "heavy lifters."
I, too, know a few accumulators as well! We probably all do.
D. Blake Werts
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 9:31 PM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Libraries disposing of records
> Hi Blake:
>
> Good luck with your Utopian dreams. Fact is, things cost money and money
is limited. Saving
> "everything" willy-nilly takes space and space costs money. Genuine
preservation takes expertise and
> expertise costs money. Free market is the best way to assure what's of
value -- as in economic
> value -- gets preserved. The rest is an uphill haul. I welcome you to cart
away as much of everyone
> else's curbside boxes or dumpsters full of 78's as you wish. There is
little chance that what you
> gather up will be usable or even extant past your lifetime. I just don't
buy into the "try and keep
> everything" MO because I think it's not realistic and a foolish waste of
limited resources.
> Decisions need to be made in each era, what was really of value here?
Yeah, tastes change but some
> things are pretty timeless or made a huge impact in their time. Obscure
stuff produced by obscure
> people is simply not of as much greater-societal value so it is likely not
to survive. I know the
> culture today strives to make everyone feel "unique" and "important," but
the simple fact is that in
> every era of human activity, a few people do the heavy lifting on the
agenda and the rest lead quiet
> lives of marginal wider value (but great value to themselves and those
immediately connected). This
> might pour some cold water, but it's just how the world works. What ends
up "preserved", if history
> so far is any guide, is not the whole thing but a stilted and biased
representation of the
> time/place, which by the way is the same with the written history. Like it
or hate it, it is The Way
> It Is.
>
> Another point -- I know a few "grab everything to save it" types who call
themselves "collectors."
> They're not, they are accumulators and are so over-run with junk that they
cannot find or enjoy the
> true treasures in their piles of stuff. One of them will be very lucky if
he makes it to his natural
> death without a premature end caused by a heavy pile of books and records
of highly varied value,
> age and condition falling on top of him. As he's gotten older, less and
less joy is to be had from
> his "collection" because it is, in the end, a pile of junk and he can't
ever enjoy it because he has
> to spend so much time sifting it to find any specific thing. A collector,
by the old-school
> definition, is discriminating and limits his collection to the items he
deems finest. A guy who
> goes and dives every dumpster to save every copy of every shellac is
firstly on a fool's errand and
> secondly nothing but an accumulator who dooms his pile to an eventual trip
back to the dumpster.
>
> -- Tom Fine
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "D. Blake Werts" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 8:13 PM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Libraries disposing of records
>
>
> > To bring it full-circle with the currently running "discarding books"
> > thread, imagine saying something similar about the printed page: humor
me
> > and replace references to 78s and etc, with Classic
Literature/books/etc:
> > (this may or may not work... but lets try...)
> >
> > At the risk of offending bibliophiles, etc., I'll offer a similar
reality
> > check, in line with Bob's [and Tom's] postings.
> > Guys, Classic Literature/Books are a real FRINGE/NICHE. Anything with
any
> > remote chance of "mass market" is out on DVD or
> > YouTube. Most people just don't like Old/Middle/Victorian English of
> > yesteryear. Yes, there are some Classic Work reprints where they went
back
> > to the original manuscripts and used modern, accessible, and marketable
> > rewrites, and it's great that modern life offers that wonderful
Literature
> > in a better-than-original mass-market format. But those dusty tomes,
they're
> > just a novelty nowadays, in most but not all cases. Now, that said, of
> > course I'll grab a pile from the curbside if the works are anything I'm
> > remotely interested in because I still like to read books for my nieces
and
> > nephews to show them "ye olde entertainment activities". But I limit my
book
> > "collection" to one bookshelf and I'd heave it first if I got in a space
> > crunch. Illuminated manuscripts -- I'm really glad <someone> has that
> > archive online but I can't see how anyone would read that stuff for
> > enjoyment. It reads worse than a material written from another world!
But,
> > back to my main point, if there's a profitable market
> > for something, it finds its value and there apparently is no market for
> > most Classic Literature.
> >
> > ---
> >
> > Please note that I certainly do not feel this way. I'm just hoping that
> > folks will understand the metaphor--and appreciate the fact that it is
ALL
> > valuable material shellac or paper or whatever else!
> >
> > D. Blake Werts
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Fine" <[log in to unmask]>
> > To: <[log in to unmask]>
> > Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 6:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Libraries disposing of records
> >
> >
> >> At the risk of offending some on list, I have to offer a reality check,
in
> > line with Bob's posting.
> >> Guys, 78's are a real FRINGE/NICHE. Anything with any remote chance of
> > "mass market" is out on CD or
> >> iTunes. Most people -- myself included -- just don't like bad quality
> > sound. Yes, there are some 78
> >> reissues where they went back to metal parts and used tasteful,
effective
> > and sound-improving
> >> digital restoration, and it's great that modern life offers that
wonderful
> > music in a
> >> better-than-original mass-market format. But those shellac disks,
they're
> > just a novelty nowadays,
> >> in most but not all cases. Now, that said, of course I'll grab a pile
from
> > the curbside if the music
> >> is anything I'm remotely interested in because I like to play the
Victrola
> > for my nieces and nephews
> >> to show them "ye olde sound equipment". But I limit my 78 "collection"
to
> > one milk crate and I'd
> >> heave it first if I got in a space crunch. Edison cylinders -- I'm
really
> > glad UCSB has that archive
> >> online but I can't see how anyone would listen to that stuff for
> > enjoyment. It sounds worse than a
> >> phone call over the Internet from Europe! But, back to my main point,
if
> > there's a profitable market
> >> for something, it finds its value and there apparently is no market for
> > most 78's.
> >>
> >> -- Tom Fine
> >>
> >> PS -- regarding that comment about sending 78's to Germany, with that
> > country's draconian
> >> disposal/recycling laws, are you sure you really want to take the
dumpings
> > of the attics and moldy
> >> basements of America? If the comment was serious, is there some sort of
> > shellac recycling market
> >> developed over there?
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Robert Hodge" <[log in to unmask]>
> >> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >> Sent: Friday, January 05, 2007 4:58 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Libraries disposing of records
> >>
> >>
> >> > Well, if it's ANY indicator....
> >> >
> >> > How many Victor Red seals, green and orange label Columbia's , et al.
> >> > get listed on Epay and never garner a single bid- not even for 1
cent.
> >> >
> >> > How could one expect to " make a fortune" from these record labels
when
> >> > those are the conditions which prevail ?
> >> > !
> >> >
> >> > BH
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >>>> [log in to unmask] 1/5/2007 4:48 PM >>>
> >> > ...why don't you ship all the 78rpms to Europe (and I speak for
> >> > Germany) and
> >> > you can make a fortune- instead of discarding them ! ! !
> >> >
> >>
> >
