Date:         Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:38:00 -0400
Reply-To:     Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
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Sender:       Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List
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From:         Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
Subject:      Re: Bix Beiderbecke "reissue" 78's
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Surely some of the metals went to the scrap drives of WWII.  Now THAT was a 
scrap.

Steve Smolian

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dick Spottswood" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Bix Beiderbecke "reissue" 78's


> Most Columbia pre-WW2 jazz reissues derive from original metal parts, and
> post-war pressings are always dubs. I suspect that the post-war popularity
> of record changers prompted new pressings with lead-in and "improved "
> lead-out grooves that activated changer mechanisms more aggressively.
> Sometimes you can spot altered lead -out grooves on pressings from
> original metals.  The 1937 Bessie Smith memorial album and four 1933
> Goodman titles reissued on the special BENNY GOODMAN label (3167-D,
> 3168-D) were all dubbed.  They also marked the end of Columbia's 1-D
> series, created in 1923.
>
> Victor reissued a lot of 1920s jazz on Bluebird from the mid-30s onward,
> from both original and dubbed metals.  Album reissue setsof JR Morton,
> McKinney's Cotton Pickers etc. appeared in both Canada and the US.
> Canadian sets use original parts;  US equivalents are dubbed.
>
> Victor kept most of its Carter Family and Jimmie Rodgers titles available
> in the Bluebird and Montgomery Ward catalogs through the 1930s,  The first
> Bluebird B-5000 series reissues were dubbed, just about everything else
> used original parts.
>
> Dick
>
>
>
>
>
> Steven Smolian <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by: Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>
> 09/10/2008 05:42 AM
> Please respond to
> Association for Recorded Sound Discussion List <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
> To
> [log in to unmask]
> cc
>
> Subject
> Re: [ARSCLIST] Bix Beiderbecke "reissue" 78's
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Jeff Wheeler has a book in progress on this isssue-er-reissue situation.
>
> Steve Smolian
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "David Lennick" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 12:16 AM
> Subject: Re: [ARSCLIST] Bix Beiderbecke "reissue" 78's
>
>
>> Biltmore, not Biltmor..Biltmor was a Canadian label around 1950. Funny
>> about dropping the final E on common names..there was a label up here
>> called Yorkshir as well. We drop Es and add Us.
>>
>> Biltmore, Temple, Sentry (and a few others) all put out dubs of rare
> jazz
>> 78s. Some of them weren't too atrocious. Some were..but how else were
> you
>> going to say you owned a copy of Zulu's Ball?
>>
>> dl
>>
>> David Lennick wrote:
>>> Sweet Sue was a dub, and there are two versions..the complete original
>>> (4:25 or so) and one with the "florid introduction" removed. We had the
>
>>> set with the complete version but the liner notes were unchanged, so
> for
>>> years I wondered how much longer the original could have been! I didn't
>
>>> find the shorter version till just a few years ago.
>>>
>>> And the second album is definitely all dubs, but all the Columbia
> reissue
>>> albums were dubs by this time, like Crosby Classics Volume II. In fact
>>> Columbia was dubbing older European classical masters as well c. 1950.
>>>
>>> Did Boris Rose have anything to do with Biltmor? I've seen some
> lacquers
>>> where the labels were the blank sides of old Biltmor labels.
>>>
>>> dl
>>>
>>> David Weiner wrote:
>>>> Some of the Columbia reissues - especially the first album,  are
> mostly
>>>> master pressings. I think the later album is all dubs.
>>>>
>>>> The Biltmores are definitely all bootleg dubs.
>>>>
>>>> Dave W.
>>>> ----------------------
>>>>
>>>> Hi All:
>>>>
>>>> I am interested in details about two Bix Beiderbecke reissue 78's.
>>>>
>>>> First of all, the albums put out by Columbia in the late 40's,
> reissues
>>>> of
>>>> Okeh records -- were those made from old metal parts or are they dubs
> of
>>>> old records?
>>>>
>>>> Second, what's the story on the 78's put out on the Biltmore label?
>>>> These
>>>> seem to be either licensed reissues or bootlegs of old Gennett and
>>>> Victor records, of the Wolverines
>>>> and the Whiteman band.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for any answers!
>>>>
>>>> -- Tom Fine
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>