Remarks With British Foreign Secretary Jack Straw After Meeting

In those confirmation hearings before the United States Senate, Secretary Rice said, and I quote, "The time for diplomacy is now." And she is certainly, if I may say so, beginning her program with a formidable program of diplomacy over the next few days, here in Europe and in the Middle East. There is a great deal of work, certainly, to be done and I look forward to working together with Secretary Rice on the issues which we have discussed this morning, including: Iraq, Israel, Palestine, Afghanistan, on Iran, on which I briefed Secretary Rice on the current state of play in terms of the European discussion, EU-US relations and the Sudan--just a list for starters.

As coalition partners, we have shared the joy of the Iraqi people, of their courageous exercise in democracy last weekend. I am glad to say that the success of the Iraqi elections were celebrated not just by the coalition and the Iraqi people, but by those too who questioned the military action which the US, the UK and other partners took. And I think that we now have an opportunity to put the divisions behind us and to work with a united international community to support a successful constitutional process. The Iraqi elections show how widely shared is the belief in freedom and democracy: a key theme of President Bush. And the people of the Ukraine and of Afghanistan sent the same message in their recent elections.

And the people of the Palestinian Authority have shown their desire for a better future, too, in their recent presidential election. We strongly welcome the decision by President Abu Mazen and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon of Israel to meet next Tuesday, and we greatly welcome Secretary Rice’s decision to attend the meeting which Prime Minister Tony Blair will be hosting here in London on the first of March. We want to use that meeting to help the Palestinians build the institutions which they will need to build in turn and to govern a viable state. And we want to help Abu Mazen and his Ministers respond effectively to Israel’s disengagement from Gaza and the four settlements in the West Bank. There is a great opportunity now for progress on this issue, which I believe is the most difficult and pressing challenge facing the whole international community. And if both sides seize this opportunity with whole-hearted international support, then the goal set by President Bush in a speech three years ago, and endorsed by the Security Council, of two states living side by side in peace can cease to be a vision and truly become a reality.

SECRETARY RICE: Thank you very much, Mr. Secretary. I want very much to thank Prime Minister Blair and Foreign Secretary Straw for hosting me in this productive discussion of our common interests and our common values. This is my first step on what is indeed going to be a bit of a whirlwind around Europe and to the Middle East. I decided to come first to Britain because we have no better friend, we have no better ally. We have done so much together and we still have so much to do together.

We deeply value the close relationship between our two countries, and, of course, we share so much. But we of course share a global agenda, as well, and we stand together on the war on terror. We have watched remarkable events in Iraq, in the Palestinian territories and in Afghanistan as people demonstrate once again that the call of freedom, the aspiration for freedom, is truly universal. The United Kingdom and the United States understand that aspiration for freedom and we are determined to support peoples who seek that freedom. By helping people build free and democratic nations our common efforts will also make us safer, because we have learned time and time again that America, Britain, Europe, the free world, is indeed safest when freedom is on the march, and when freedom is in retreat we are indeed vulnerable.

This is the first stop on a trip to a number of other European capitals. President Bush has emphasised his desire to re-invigorate our relations across Europe to take our partnership to a new level of support and engagement with those who are on the road to new freedoms. This administration continues its commitment to an enduring and active transatlantic partnership. On this trip I will explore how we can effectively address, through this partnership, the many pressing challenges that confront us all. And I especially look forward to discussions about how we can sustain the momentum that is now developing towards the resolution of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, to get back onto the Road Map and to move ultimately to a two-state solution. I will be returning to London next month to participate in a meeting hosted by Prime Minister Blair at which we hope to make significant strides towards securing a lasting peace for the people of the Palestinian territories and for the Israeli people.

Foreign Secretary Straw, thank you, again, for your friendship. Thank you for your leadership in these times of difficulty, but times of opportunity. I look forward to continuing to work with you.

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, a year ago in a congressional hearing, Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said that the Bush administration does not support regime change in Iran. On the plane we asked you repeatedly about regime change. Can you say, "yes" or "no?" Has the policy changed? Does the Bush administration support regime change in Iran?

And for the Foreign Secretary, can I ask you does the U.S. position on Iran actually hamper what you are trying to achieve with the Iranians in the EU-3 negotiations? Do you want the United States to directly join those talks?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, first of all, let me state very clearly what we hope to achieve concerning the Iranian regime. We have complete unity of purpose on a number of points. First of all, that Iran engages in activities that are destabilising to the region in which it lives, particularly when it comes to support for terrorism which is aimed directly at destabilising and frustrating the Palestinian-Israeli peace which we all seek. Recently the European Union and the British took steps to make clear to Hamas that they could not find support in Europe while they were trying to frustrate those activities. So, we have complete understanding and agreement on matters of terrorism and the Iranian regime.

Secondly, we are completely unified in our view that Iran should not use the cover of civilian nuclear power development, an opportunity granted to it by NPT membership, to sustain a program that could lead to a nuclear weapon. And indeed we and the EU-3 have been in very close consultation about the efforts that the EU-3 is making to get the Iranians to live up to their international obligations. And frankly, the Iranians ought to take the opportunity that is being presented to them to show that they want to live up to their international obligations.

Third, we have been united in our view that the Iranian regime should have transparent relations with its neighbors in Afghanistan and Iraq. There is nothing wrong with relations between Iran and its neighbors--that would be only natural--but that efforts to undermine in any way democratic developments in those countries would be wrong.

Fourth, we have all been concerned about the abysmal human rights record of the Iranian regime. There are very recent examples of just how abysmal that human rights record is, and we know that this is an Iranian population with a flourishing history and culture and civil society, that frankly deserves better than to have an un-elected few frustrate their aspirations. And so, I find that there is really very little difference between us about the challenges that we face in dealing with the Iranian regime. We have many diplomatic tools still at our disposal and we intend to pursue them fully.

FOREIGN SECRETARY STRAW: Thank you. And could I just add in support of what Secretary Rice has said that the efforts of the EU-3--France, Germany and the United Kingdom--in respect of Iran, to the extent that they have worked so far, have only worked because we have been backed by an international consensus, and absolutely fundamental to that international consensus has been the support that we have received in the IAEA board, and in many other ways from the United States. So, this is a joint diplomatic effort, albeit that three countries are directly involved in the negotiation. Thank you.

QUESTION: Secretary of State, can I ask you to clarify that last answer. Can you envisage circumstances during President Bush’s second administration in which the United States would attack Iran?

SECRETARY RICE: The question is simply not on the agenda at this point in time. You know, we have diplomatic means to do this. Iran is not immune to the changes that are going on in this region. I think the spectacle of Afghans voting in Iran for a free Afghan election, Iraqis voting in Iran for a free Iraqi election, has got to have an effect on an Iranian people who have long been denied the right to do the same. We need to make clear to the Iranian regime that the "elections" in which they are going to engage are understood not to be, in fact, elections that can be supported by an international community that believes that people have a right to really say what they think. These are our most basic principles and they apply to the Iranian regime, just as they apply to other regimes around the world. But we believe, particularly in regard to the nuclear issue, that while no one ever asks the American President to take all of his options…any option off the table, that there are plenty of diplomatic means at our disposal to get the Iranians to finally live up to their international obligations.

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, Iran’s supreme leader on Thursday condemned the President’s comments in the State of the Union address, and I’m wondering if you could respond to the Iranian comments of the last couple of days about both the accusations on the nuclear front and what the President said about human rights?

And Secretary Straw, on the plane flying over, Secretary Rice said that the diplomatic community, and that Europe certainly would agree, that Iran’s human rights record is to be loathed. Strong words. And do you think that those kinds of words are perhaps not as helpful to the European initiative to try to reach a diplomatic solution?

SECRETARY RICE: I don’t need to respond to what the Iranian regime has said here. I think the Iranian regime’s behavior speaks for itself. This is a regime that has an un-elected few who have frustrated the aspirations of a people who have demonstrated time and time again that they want a more democratic future. And that is something that those of us who happen to be on the right side of freedom’s divide have got to speak about if we are to say to the Iranian people that you have not been forgotten in our desires to see all people free, to look towards liberty and towards their aspirations. That is what the President said, and I think an American President has to continue to say that, and will continue to say that.

As to what has been said about the nuclear problem, it is not just the United States that is concerned about Iranian activities under the guise of civilian nuclear power development, under the NPT. That is why the EU-3 has engaged in these discussions with the Iranians, because there is concern. The IAEA has several times noted its concern about these activities. So, it is the Iranians that are isolated on this issue, not the United States.

FOREIGN SECRETARY STRAW: Yes, let me just underline that point. Those who think that this is a matter of concern just to one country or another need to read the IAEA Board of Governors resolutions, which were passed unanimously by all 35 members of the Board of Governors. And we wouldn’t ever have engaged in the EU-3 initiative unless there had been a most serious cause for concern, behind which there is an international consensus.

And on the issue of human rights, I would be astonished if Secretary Rice did not have strong feelings about the human rights record of the Iranian regime, because that is shared by us, and we have spelt out that in our own annual human rights report. And part of the problem in Iran, which is the subject, too, of continuing discussions between the EU-3 and the Iranians, is that whilst there was some improvement in the human rights record after Khatami was elected, that has now gone backwards, and it is therefore a matter of profound concern.

QUESTION: In your quest for democracy and liberty, what would you say to the un-elected few who rule Saudi Arabia, because I think the image of America has sometimes been damaged in the eyes of the world by the feeling that you support dictators that are necessary, while opposing those who are offensive to you?

SECRETARY RICE: Well, I think the President probably said it best when he was at Whitehall, here, and he said, "we expect more of our friends." Obviously countries are going to move at their own pace, they are going to move towards the liberalization of their politics in the context of their own traditions, religious, historical and others. No one can seek to impose a particular model or a particular set of solutions to the question of how one answers the universal aspirations of people for liberty, the simple right for people to be able to say what they think.

But, we do expect that there should be movement towards reform in all of the countries of the Middle East. It is one reason that with Great Britain’s help, and that of the G-8, we have formed the Forum for the Future, which gives not just governments a place to talk about reform, but civil society groups, and business groups, and women’s groups. This is a very vital mechanism by which to give those who want to press forward on their aspirations for freedom an international forum in which to do so. And so, this is, from our point of view a universal principle that people ought to be able to pursue these aspirations. We do understand that the building of democracy takes time, we in our own history, when…I have often said…when the Founding fathers said "We the people," they didn’t mean me. We have come a long way and others will have to find their way.

But, it is an urgent task to put this on the agenda with all states. And frankly, I have been heartened. I have been heartened by the fact that the Arab League took this up at their summit. I have been heartened by the fact that reforms are taking place in places like Morocco, in Jordan, in Bahrain and other places, and, of course, the examples of elections in Afghanistan and Iraq and the Palestinian territories say that there may be some momentum.

FOREIGN SECRETARY STRAW: Can I just add on this that I think, Mark, the point you make had some justification against the whole of the west, not just the US, at the time of the Cold War, but there has really been a very significant sea change. And as a result of President Bush’s initiative, which he took as part of the G-8 Presidency, and also the other changes in which the US, UK has been in the lead, not least in Afghanistan and Iraq, you can now feel the winds of change blowing through the Arab world. And there are quite significant changes actually taking place now and in the near future in Saudi Arabia.

QUESTION: One issue on which it is obvious that there is disagreement between your two countries is on the issue of the Chinese arms embargo, where Foreign Secretary Straw you said that there was a good likelihood that the EU was going to lift that embargo within the next couple of months. Madam Secretary you said the United States is opposed on strategic and also human rights abuse. Did you discuss the issue, and have you been able to bridge your differences, and how are you going to bridge your differences?

SECRETARY RICE: We discussed this in Washington, so we did not take it up again here. But let me just say that I have been really pleased at the openness with which we have been able to deal with this issue. I feel that the Europeans are listening to our concerns and that we are in a situation in which we are working to understand each other better and to see how we can move forward. We believe, obviously, that the lifting of the embargo has exactly the effects that you have stated. But, of course, the important thing with friends is that when there are areas of disagreement that we find the way to talk about them openly.

FOREIGN SECRETARY STRAW: I agree with Secretary Rice. As she said, that wasn’t discussed this morning, not least because we discussed it in some detail when I was in Washington 11 days ago, and I made a statement in the House of Commons yesterday about UK-Europe relations in which this came up. We want to ensure from a United Kingdom point of view, but I think this is increasingly shared by our EU partners, that the justifiable anxieties of the United States are factored into any decision which we make.

QUESTION: Can I ask, is there a risk, and I am not trying to be rude, is there a risk of the possibility on Iran that the Iranians can pull the wool over the West’s eyes? I was watching Iranian television last night and the same belligerence that has been heard for many months continued, especially on the nuclear issue. There have been very stern warnings everywhere that they are going to continue their nuclear program, regardless of what the west thinks. And associated with that, is there not a real risk that everything that Jack Straw has said recently in trying to get the Iranians to end their support for terrorism has fallen on deaf ears, because it still is continuing, it is still very negative towards the peace process in the Middle East?

And secondly, could I briefly ask, in the light of the attacks there were on Israeli civilians and soldiers in the last 24 hours, what hope is there to prove that Mahmoud Abbas can actually deliver a peace process in which Israel can be feeling secure and the Palestinians can get what they want in their state?

FOREIGN SECRETARY STRAW: Well, on your first point Jerry: yes, of course there is a risk. We wouldn’t be engaged in this kind of very tough negotiation with the Iranians, nor would the IAEA board have passed the resolutions that it has passed, if there was not a perceived risk by the international community, to pick up a point made by Secretary Rice, that the civil nuclear program, to which in principle Iran is entitled under the Non-Proliferation Treaty to pursue, is being used as a cover for a program to build and develop a nuclear weapons program, which it most surely is banned by the NPT from pursuing. And it is precisely because of that risk that one of the parts of the Brussels agreement that was reached in November is that Iran must provide the international community with "objective guarantees," and we mean objective guarantees about the real purposes and the control on its civil nuclear program.

On the issue of the attacks which have taken place in the last 24 hours, certainly when I was in Israel, and it has been repeated often since, what the Israeli government are looking for from the Palestinian Authority, is, as they put it, 100% effort by the Palestinians and they want to be reassured that the Palestinian Authority and Palestinian security is relentless and ruthless in pursuit of the terrorists, whose political aim is as much directed against the elected Palestinian Authority as in practice it is against the Israelis.

SECRETARY RICE: I would agree with that. And we can also do our part to help the Palestinians to improve their capabilities to deal with the security situation. I do think that the political atmosphere has changed concerning terrorism with Prime Minister Abbas, given his views on the necessity to have a peaceful resolution of the conflict. The fact is, though, that there will have to be action to make certain that terrorists cannot continue to frustrate both his plans and to endanger the lives of Israelis. We will have a discussion about security when we are here at the London Conference; I will certainly talk about security when I am there in a couple of days. The Palestinian security forces need to be unified, there needs to be, as the Palestinians themselves say, one authority, one gun, and there will also need to be some international effort, and the United States is prepared to play a major role in that to help in the training of the Palestinian security forces and in making sure that they are security forces that are part of the solution, not part of the problem.

QUESTION: Madam Secretary, are there any circumstances under which the United States would agree to the ICC taking up the Darfur issue? And Mr. Secretary, are you backing away from your position that the International Criminal Court here would be the place where the Darfur case would be heard?

SECRETARY RICE: The United States has made very clear its views of the ICC. We are not party to it, we are concerned about unaccountable prosecutors, and therefore unaccountable prosecutions. We have believed that we are better off with regional and local accountability mechanisms, like the ICTY that has dealt with crimes in the Balkans and Yugoslavia. We have also, of course, supported the Rwandan Tribunal, which I think was a great success for the way in which it held accountable the (inaudible) in what was one of the world’s recent most horrible sets of crimes in recent memory. So we have been very clear that this is how we view it. We are also very clear that we believe that those who have committed crimes in Sudan have to be held accountable for them. And the mechanism of going to the Security Council to agree on a way forward for that accountability seems to us the right forum for that discussion. But, American views of the ICC and the dangers of the ICC have, of course, not changed.

FOREIGN SECRETARY STRAW: So far as we are concerned, our position on the ICC is long-standing. As Secretary Rice says, we are in complete agreement about the need to see those who have committed those atrocities brought to justice. Under the ICC Statute itself, because Sudan is not a state party to that statute, the matter falls to be decided in the Security Council. All of us know that the natural authority of the international community is greatly strengthened where there is a consensus behind a Security Council decision, and that is what we shall be working for to achieve in the Security Council in New York.

QUESTION: Vice President Cheney said recently that the diplomatic efforts on Iran might be forestalled by an Israeli decision to attack Iran’s nuclear plant. I wonder if the Foreign Secretary and the Secretary of State will do anything to encourage or discourage the Israeli government in that direction?

SECRETARY RICE: First, let me not respond to what was necessarily a paraphrase of what the Vice President said, but the point is that the prospect of an Iranian nuclear weapon is deeply de-stabilizing. It is de-stabilizing to Iran’s neighbors, for very good reasons; it would be de-stabilizing for peace and security internationally. That is why there has been, I think now, very strong international consensus that Iran cannot be allowed to go down that route.

I would note that in addition to the efforts that Britain, France and Germany are making, we have a robust IAEA process, we still have options under the IAEA process, for instance for referral to the Security Council of the Iranian case. We, of course, have worked also with the Russians and their efforts to cooperate with the Iranians on civilian nuclear power have been much more attuned recently to concerns about the proliferation risk of civilian nuclear power development, and have, for instance, insisted on the Iranians signing the additional protocol and on a fuel take-back, which while it does not eliminate the proliferation risk, it certainly does help to mitigate. So again, it is the Iranians who are isolated if they wish to continue to go down this path. And I will just repeat the European Three has given the Iranians an opportunity to demonstrate that they are serious about living up to their international obligations. They ought to take it.

FOREIGN SECRETARY STRAW: Can I just say that the discussions which have arisen as a result of the Brussels Agreement in November include the issue of the nuclear dossier, but they also include wider issues, including the need for Iran to change its position in respect of the Middle East, and above all its neighbors. It cannot go on, if it wishes to be a full member of the international community, denying the right of one member of the United Nations to exist, which is a fundamental de-stabilizing aspect of the Middle East situation.

And I have already, in answer to Jerry Lewis, explained why the international community thinks they are a risk, which is to put it mildly. It is why we got involved in these negotiations with the Iranians. What is now crucial is that Iran understands the strength of feeling of the international community, which is well illustrated by that tough unanimity within the IAEA Board of Governors, and that we, by the process of negotiation, get them to deliver on their obligations, which they have signed up to in the Tehran Agreement in October 2003 and in the Brussels Agreement in November 2004.

Thank you very much.