<DOC>
[107 Senate Hearings]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access]
[DOCID: f:86518.wais]
S. Hrg. 107-910
THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND
MENTALLY ILL OFFENDERS
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
JUNE 11, 2002
__________
Serial No. J-107-84
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
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COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman
EDWARD M. KENNEDY, Massachusetts ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah
JOSEPH R. BIDEN, Jr., Delaware STROM THURMOND, South Carolina
HERBERT KOHL, Wisconsin CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania
RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin JON KYL, Arizona
CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York MIKE DeWINE, Ohio
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama
MARIA CANTWELL, Washington SAM BROWNBACK, Kansas
JOHN EDWARDS, North Carolina MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
Bruce A. Cohen, Majority Chief Counsel and Staff Director
Sharon Prost, Minority Chief Counsel
Makan Delrahim, Minority Staff Director
C O N T E N T S
----------
STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS
DeWine, Hon. Mike, a U.S. Senator from the State of Ohio,
prepared statement............................................. 33
Leahy, Hon. Patrick J., a U.S. Senator from the State of Vermont. 1
prepared statement........................................... 35
WITNESSES
Caceci, John, Captain, Monroe County Jail, Rochester, New York... 13
Margolis, Gary, Director of Police Services, University of
Vermont, Burlington, Vermont................................... 6
Mayfield, Kenneth President-Elect, National Association of
Counties, and Commissioner, Dallas County, Dallas, Texas....... 11
Strickland, Hon. Ted, a Representative in Congress from the State
of Ohio........................................................ 3
Sudders, MaryLou, Commissioner of Mental Health, Commonwealth of
Massachusetts, Boston, Massachusetts........................... 9
SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD
Bazelon, David, Judge, Center for Mental Health Law, letter...... 21
Caceci, John, Captain, Monroe County Jail, Rochester, New York,
prepared statement............................................. 23
Margolis, Gary, Director of Police Services, University of
Vermont, Burlington, Vermont, prepared statement............... 37
Mayfield, Kenneth President-Elect, National Association of
Counties, and Commissioner, Dallas County, Dallas, Texas,
prepared statement............................................. 50
Strickland, Hon. Ted, a Representative in Congress from the State
of Ohio, prepared statement.................................... 59
Sudders, MaryLou, Commissioner of Mental Health, Commonwealth of
Massachusetts, Boston, Massachusetts, prepared statement....... 72
Wilkinson, Reginald A., Director, Ohio Department of
Rehabilitation and Correction, Columbus, Ohio, statement....... 75
THE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM AND MENTALLY ILL OFFENDERS
----------
TUESDAY, JUNE 11, 2002
United States Senate,
Committee on the Judiciary,
Washington, D.C.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m., in
Room SD-226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Patrick J.
Leahy, Chairman of the Committee, presiding.
Present: Senator Leahy.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. PATRICK J. LEAHY, A U.S. SENATOR FROM
THE STATE OF VERMONT
Chairman Leahy. Good morning. Today, this committee is
going to consider an important but, I am afraid, often
overlooked criminal justice issue--the impact of mentally ill
offenders on our justice system. The consideration of the
committee will be aided by the release of a comprehensive
report on that topic by the Council of State Governments. We
are also going to hear from a number of criminal justice and
mental health experts, who will explain why the issue of
mentally ill offenders has presented such problems for State
and local governments. I hope this hearing will raise awareness
of the role of mental illness in causing crime and help
Congress valuate what role the Federal Government can play in
helping State and local governments address this issue.
Now, we are all too familiar with the role that drug abuse
plays in promoting crime--from drug trafficking itself, to
property crimes committed by addicts or those seeking money to
buy drugs, even to the tragedy of murders committed by dealers
seeking to gain or maintain control over what have become
lucrative drug markets. We are also well acquainted with the
occasional notorious crime committed by mentally ill
individuals--the assassination attempt, for example, against
President Reagan. But today we will focus on the persistent
problem of people with mental illness who repeatedly rotate
between the criminal justice system and the outside world,
committing a series of minor offenses that occupy the time of
law enforcement officers and actually divert them from their
more urgent responsibilities. Now, some mentally ill offenders
also abuse drugs and/or alcohol, and that further complicates
matters.
We will hear today from witnesses who have expertise in
this area from varying perspectives, including law enforcement,
corrections, State mental health systems, and local government.
I must admit--and I hope people won't believe I am being
parochial, but I want to give a particular welcome to Gary
Margolis, who is the Chief of Police Services at the University
of Vermont. I worked with Chief Margolis on a whole number of
issues over the years, and not only have I but my staff has
relied on his very good judgment. And I appreciate
Representative Ted Strickland coming over from the other side
of the Hill. He has personal experiences with mentally ill
offenders. He served as--and tell me, Congressman, if I am
right on this--a consulting psychologist at the Southern Ohio
Correctional Facility before coming to Congress. I mention that
because of how fortunate we are when people who have all these
different backgrounds come into Congress, and both the House
and the Senate have benefited from Congressman Strickland's
expertise.
The Council of State Governments' report was developed by
nearly 100 criminal justice and mental health policymakers--
Republicans and Democrats--who wanted a non-partisan report on
how to improve the criminal justice system and how it handles
people with mental illness. They had sheriffs, chiefs of
police, prosecutors, judges, corrections directors, parole
board chairmen, mental health professionals. That is pretty
extensive. The Police Executive Research Forum and the
Association of State Correctional Administrators worked with
the Council of State Governments and the Bazelon Center for
Mental Health Law.
The evidence shows the severity of the problem. It found
that more than 16 percent of those incarcerated in jails and
prisons have a mental illness. The Office of Juvenile Justice
and Delinquency Prevention reports that more than 20 percent of
the youth in the juvenile justice system have serious mental
health problems. The Los Angeles County jail often holds more
people with mental illness--the Los Angeles County jail--than
any State hospital or mental health institution in the United
States. Every State witnesses examples of this.
Last December, Robert Woodward, a mentally ill man,
interrupted services at All Souls Church in West Brattleboro,
threatened first to kill himself, then armed with a knife,
charged three officers who had responded to the scene. They
fired back in defense. Mr. Woodward died later that day. This
is tragic all the way, the tragedy of the effect on the
officers, the effect on Mr. Woodward, and those who were in the
church. And so we have to look at these things.
We should all agree that it makes sense to help State and
local governments improve the availability of mental health
services, to train their law enforcement personnel to recognize
the signs of mental illness, but then to give prosecutors more
tools in dealing with them.
Helping people with mental illness is the right thing to
do. It would improve the safety of all Americans, but we also
have to give the tools to those we ask to protect all
Americans. I have worked with Senator Hatch and others to
increase funding for drug treatment. We want to reduce crime,
but we should also be interested in this issue. I have proposed
including a study on the ability of mentally ill offenders to
reintegrate into society after their release.
[The prepared statement of Senator Leahy appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chairman Leahy. If I might, I would call on Congressman
Strickland to come forward.
To give you an idea, as I said, about the background of
people who come here and absolutely improve the Congress with
their background, Congressman Strickland represents the 6th
District of Ohio. He has a master's of divinity degree from
Asbury Theological Seminary, a doctorate in counseling
psychology for the University of Kentucky. He served as a
minister, college professor, and a psychologist. Actually, all
three are probably necessary just to serve with the rest of us
up here.
[Laughter.]
Chairman Leahy. At least speaking for myself. So,
Congressman, I am delighted to have you here. Please go ahead,
sir.
STATEMENT OF HON. TED STRICKLAND, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
FROM THE STATE OF OHIO
Representative Strickland. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
your graciousness in having me here and giving me the
opportunity to testify today about the solutions to the
problems of the mentally ill in the criminal justice system. As
a psychologist and as someone who has worked in a maximum
security prison and as a Member of Congress who has worked
through legislation to try to solve some of these problems, I
hope that I can provide some helpful insights to you and the
committee.
The striking statistic which you have just shared with us,
Mr. Chairman, and that we will probably hear multiple times
today is that, according to the Bureau of Justice Statistics,
over 16 percent of adults in our jails and prisons have a
mental illness, and the Office of Juvenile Justice and
Delinquency Prevention tells us that over 20 percent of the
youth who are in juvenile justice systems have serious mental
health problems.
In 1963, Health, Education and Welfare Secretary Anthony
Celebrezze said, ``The facts regarding mental illness and
mental retardation reveal national health problems of tragic
proportions compounded by years of neglect.'' He said that
large State mental hospitals were primarily institutions for
quarantining the mentally ill, not for treating them, and that
``all levels of government, as well as private individuals and
groups, must share the responsibilities of a 20th century
approach to this outstanding national health problem.''
Well, Congress responded to this ``outstanding mental
health problem'' by passing the Community Mental Health Centers
Act, which sought to move as many of the mentally ill as
possible out of prolonged confinement in overcrowded State
custodial institutions into voluntary treatment at community
mental health centers. On October 31, 1963, President Kennedy
signed the Community Mental Health Centers Act into law.
Unfortunately, Congress failed to keep the Act's promise by
failing to fund it, and the money States needed to build
adequate community mental health infrastructures flowed to
other priorities.
Although the reforms were well intended and had the purpose
of protecting the mentally ill, they resulted in many of the
most severely ill going without treatment and, in too many
cases, becoming homeless, incarcerated, suicidal, and
victimized. Ironically, these efforts are euphemistically
referred to as ``the deinstitutionalization movement.'' But, in
my opinion, the huge numbers of mentally ill individuals in
jails, prisons, homeless shelters, and flop houses demand that
we call this movement what it has become:
transinstitutionalization.
I believe there are two ways we must address this problem.
First, we must require that health plans stop
discriminating against mental health treatment. There is no
scientific justification for treating mental health benefits
differently from other benefits. S. 543, which has been
introduced by Senator Domenici, and H.R. 4066, which has been
introduced by Representative Roukema and of which I am a proud
cosponsor, would guarantee that health plans offer equal
coverage of mental health and physical health.
Second, and most important for the topic at hand today, is
that we must give the criminal justice system that resources it
needs to divert and treat the mentally ill.
Senator DeWine and I worked together in the 106th Congress
to begin to address some of these issues by creating a
demonstration program to encourage the creation of mental
health courts, which are courts with dedicated dockets with a
dedicated judge where defendants may receive court-supervised
treatment rather than jail terms. In most instances, the
existence of the court allows a community to leverage
additional mental health treatment resources because the base
of support covers all parts of the criminal justice system,
including law enforcement and court systems.
However successful, the mental health court initiative is
but a small piece in what is needed to address the problem of
the mentally ill at all stages of the criminal justice system.
I am glad to be working with Senator DeWine and with you,
Chairman Leahy, to build on the mental health court initiative.
We are working to craft a bill that comprehensively addresses
the problem of the mentally ill in the criminal justice system
by encouraging law enforcement and criminal justice systems
within communities to collaborate with treatment providers to
ensure that individuals with mental illness receive all the
services they need to live healthy, productive lives.
The bill under consideration will provide funds for States
and localities to create diversion programs within the criminal
and juvenile justice programs; provide training fund and
materials so that police and correctional officers can
recognize the symptoms of mental illness and create appropriate
plans of action when a mental illness is recognized; and ensure
that treatment and services, including housing, education and
training, and health care are available when an individual with
a mental illness is released from prison.
The bill will allow States and communities the flexibility
to design a treatment program that meets their individual
needs, but it will also require collaboration on the part of
the agencies providing these services.
For example, a significant percentage of adults with
serious mental illness in the criminal justice system were
homeless upon arrest, and a lack of housing is a contributor to
their difficulties in accessing treatment and other services or
holding a job.
The bill we will introduce will seek to address this
problem by requiring that communities receiving grants
coordinate with the Department of Housing and Urban Development
and ensure that they have a plan of action for the housing
needs of individuals with serious mental disorders, including
those who are released from prison or jail. If this
collaboration is successful, fewer individuals with serious
mental disorders will commit another crime. I truly believe
that based on my experience.
Collaboration between education and training as well as
employment agencies must also occur. The bill will address both
the juvenile and adult mentally ill populations by ensuring
that communities receiving grants meet the unique needs of both
adults and youth. In addition, the bill will have an evaluation
component to ensure that the communities that receive funds are
using them for programs that are effective. This will also
ensure that extremely successful programs are recognized and
can be replicated in other communities.
I believe this sort of collaboration is the best way to
create a legislative mechanisms that will bridge the gap
between the mental health and the criminal justice systems. It
is through this gap that so many mentally ill defendants
currently fall. Both Senator DeWine and I are working hard on
this bill, and I am hopeful that it will be ready to be
introduced very soon.
In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, I want to thank this committee
for looking closely at a problem which too many of us have
turned away from. I believe there is a consensus among a broad
spectrum of stakeholders and political ideologies that lead us
to the practical steps we can take to stop the criminal justice
system from being this country's primary caretaker of the
seriously mentally ill. I am so pleased and proud to be a part
of this effort, and I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this
opportunity to speak to you this morning.
Chairman Leahy. Well, thank you, Congressman Strickland.
And I directed my staff to continue working with yours and
Senator DeWine's on this legislation, introducing it soon.
Again, just on a personal note, I appreciate your leadership in
this. You come as well qualified as anybody I have served with
in the Congress to give that kind of leadership.
I have no questions. I also know you are supposed to be at
about five other things in the House right now, so, of course,
you are excused. But I appreciate you coming over.
Let's have our staffs work on the final part, and you and I
can see what we can get passed.
Representative Strickland. Thank you very much.
Chairman Leahy. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Strickland appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chairman Leahy. We are going to set up for the next panel,
which will be: Chief Gary Margolis, University of Vermont,
Director of Police Services; Marylou Sudders, the Commissioner
of Mental Health, Commonwealth of Massachusetts; Kenneth
Mayfield, the President-Elect of the National Association of
Counties, also a Commissioner of Dallas County, Dallas, Texas;
and Captain John Caceci--how close did I come?
Mr. Caceci. ``Caceci.''
Chairman Leahy. I am sorry. I should know that. Captain
Caceci and I were talking about our Italian heritage earlier.
My late mother, whose family came here from Italy, would
probably have a word with me if she heard me mispronounce a
name like that.
Please, why don't you all come forward and take your places
at the table.
Again, I thank you for taking the time to come here. I
should note that Chief Margolis is the chief and Director of
Police Services at the University of Vermont. He is testifying
on behalf of the Police Executive Research Forum and the
Council of State Governments. He has a doctorate in educational
leadership and policy studies. He served on the committee that
produced the Council of State Governments Criminal Justice/
Mental Health report.
Ms. Sudders has served as Commissioner of Mental Health for
Massachusetts since 1996. To put that in perspective, she
oversees a mental health system that will deliver services to
more than 24,500 Massachusetts residents. She previously served
as New Hampshire's commissioner and is testifying on behalf of
the National Association of State Mental Health Program
Directors.
I mentioned Mr. Mayfield is the Commissioner of Dallas
County, and I enjoyed talking about mutual friends with him,
but he is also, more importantly right now, the President-Elect
of the National Association of Counties.
The captain has worked in law enforcement for nearly 20
years and supervises all uniform personnel at the Monroe
County, New York, jail where, I am sorry to say, he has had
extensive experience with mentally ill offenders, and I must
say I am glad to have you here because your experience is not
in the abstract. I think that would be safe to say.
We will begin with Chief Margolis.
STATEMENT OF GARY MARGOLIS, DIRECTOR OF POLICE SERVICES,
UNIVERSITY OF VERMONT, BURLINGTON, VERMONT
Chief Margolis. Good morning. Thank you, Senator. This is
indeed an honor to be here before you today.
My name is Gary Margolis, and I am the Chief of Police for
the University of Vermont. As Senator Leahy knows, Vermont is
struggling like other States across this Nation to improve how
we respond to people with mental illness in the criminal
justice system, and I applaud you and this committee for taking
on this difficult issue.
Today I am representing the Police Executive Research Forum
and the Criminal Justice/Mental Health Consensus Project, a 2-
year initiative coordinated by the Council of State
Governments. Together with numerous criminal justice
professionals and mental health professionals along with
victims' advocates and consumers, we have developed concrete
recommendations for providing appropriate responses to people
with mental illnesses at risk of criminal justice involvement.
In my testimony today, I will describe traditional responses
and the problem at hand, while suggesting steps this committee
can take to help us.
So many police encounters involve people who essentially
are displaying symptoms of untreated mental illness, and let me
be clear at this point and from the start that any person who
commits serious crime should be arrested, prosecuted, and
appropriately sentenced, including the mentally ill. But as I
will illustrate, when it comes to the police response to people
with mental illnesses who commit less serious crimes, we can
serve them and our communities better by a collaborative
police-mental health approach.
Many police encounters involve persons acting in a
disorderly or disturbing manner, and the examples are
plentiful. It could be the person urinating on a street corner
or directing traffic in the middle of Main Street. In other
cases, a family member called because their loved one with a
history of mental illness needs immediate help and they don't
know where to turn. They may be frightened for their own
safety, or they can no longer take the stress.
In these scenarios, we all agree that treatment is needed.
Often the police are the only resources available 24 hours a
day, 7 days a week, and we simply do not possess the diagnostic
expertise of mental health professionals. In many rural areas,
we may be the only resource available within a 45-minutes or
more drive. In communities without effective partnerships, the
police have three options: first is to do nothing, and we must
accept the fact that in some communities with severely
inadequate treatment services this approach continues to be a
reality.
The second is to link the person with appropriate mental
health services. But, unfortunately, as in the first, in many
communities such services are simply inaccessible.
The third and by far most common option is to arrest if a
minor crime has been committed. When arrested, minor offenders
with mental illnesses land in a criminal justice system ill-
equipped to meet their needs, where they often deteriorate
further. They then re-enter the community far worse and the
cycle repeats.
Only the relatively rare police call involves a person with
mental illness exhibiting threatening behavior and brandishing
a weapon. These tragic incidents perpetuate the myth that
people with mental illnesses are more violent than the general
population, and this is what becomes our front-page news.
I am going to reiterate a story the Senator began with,
that on Sunday, December 2, 2001, Robert Woodward interrupted
service at the All Souls Church in West Brattleboro, Vermont.
He held a three-and-a-half-inch blade to his right eye while
threatening to kill himself if folks left the service. Mr.
Woodward refused to comply with repeated requests from the
police to drop his weapon, and when he advanced towards the
officers, he was shot. He died only hours later.
In a statement to a rescue squad member, Mr. Woodward said,
``Please tell the officer I assaulted that I did not want to
hurt him. I would not have harmed him. I just wanted him to
shoot me.'' The Vermont Attorney General concluded that the
shooting death of Robert Woodward, ``although tragic, was
legally justified.''
There are far too many examples like this in every
jurisdiction. Too often, we had been there before, we had known
of the problem, but the underlying mental health issues were
never fully addressed. We respond time after time to the same
locations of individuals, spending considerable resources in a
helpless cycle, particularly in a time when Federal authorities
are relying on local police to help in our war on terrorism.
And on behalf of my colleagues, I am here to state that we are
frustrated.
The reality is that police response is dictated by agency
resources and community support. We must work collaboratively
to develop solutions. The Consensus Project identified several
best practices to serve as models. We know that effective
police response to people with mental illness depends on
extensive collaborations with the mental health community.
Funding for the Consensus Project is an excellent example of
this at the Federal level. The Department of Justice Office of
Justice Programs and the Department of Health and Human
Services Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services
Administration each made extensive contributions. They promoted
efforts by the State and local governments----
Chairman Leahy. If you could hold up, somebody has a very
important phone call. I don't want them to miss it.
In fact, if he would like to step outside and take it, he
is more than welcome to.
Go ahead, chief.
Chief Margolis. Thank you, sir. We know that effective
police responses to people with mental illness depend on
extensive collaboration with the mental health community.
Funding for this Consensus Project is an excellent example of
this at the Federal level. The Department of Justice Office of
Justice Programs and the Department of Health and Human
Services Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services
Administration each made extensive contributions. They promoted
efforts by the State and local governments to develop the
solutions rather than imposing a one-size-fits-all Federal
mandate.
Another important step was the enactment of America's Law
Enforcement and Mental Health Project, the law that Senator
DeWine and other committee members originally sponsored. We
need your help and today's hearing marks an exciting step. I
respectfully request the committee consider the following:
First, we need the Federal Government's help in determining
what works.
Second, resources from the Federal Government are essential
to seed new programs and facilitate coordination between
criminal justice and mental health organizations.
In closing, in these difficult times it is easy to dismiss
the issue we raise today. I implore you to think otherwise. Our
important efforts to combat terrorism cannot impede our
progress on other fronts. There are solutions described in the
Consensus Project report which we can implement with your help.
The bottom line is we can do better. We owe it to the people
with mental illness who need our help. We owe it to their
families and loved ones, to the victims and to the communities
who trust us, the police, to respond effectively to their calls
for help.
Thank you, Senator.
[The prepared statement of Chief Margolis appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chairman Leahy. Thank you very much.
Commissioner?
STATEMENT OF MARYLOU SUDDERS, COMMISSIONER OF MENTAL HEALTH,
COMMONWEALTH OF MASSACHUSETTS, BOSTON, MASSACHUSETTS
Ms. Sudders. Good morning, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the
invitation to testify about the interrelationship between
criminal justice and mental health. Addressing this very
serious matter requires true leadership and true partnership
between mental health and criminal justice at all levels.
I am here in two capacities. First, it is my great honor to
serve as Commissioner of Mental Health for the great
Commonwealth of Massachusetts. The mission of the department is
to improve the quality of life for adults with serious and
persistent mental illness and children with severe emotional
disturbance. As you noted, I serve on any given day 24,000
individuals in Massachusetts. I am also here as a member of the
Board of the National Association of State Mental Health
Program Directors, which represents the $20 billion public
mental health system in the 50 States and the District of
Columbia. I am authorized to speak on behalf of all State
mental health authorities and to present a national perspective
regarding the urgency this issue creates for States in both our
criminal justice and mental health systems.
I should note that NASHMHPD, in fact, has formed a task
force devoted to this very topic. Others here this morning will
focus on the burden on the criminal justice system. I will
focus on the challenges in the public mental health system, as
well as specific action that may be taken by Federal, State,
and local governments.
Let me begin by applauding the committee for convening this
hearing and bringing together what some might consider the
strangest of bedfellows. As you will hear, however, this
collaboration--between those responsible for criminal justice
and mental health systems--is essential and, in some cases,
long overdue. And we all know the tragedies. Where the seeds of
that collaboration have been planted, significant outcomes have
been achieved. But these achievements have been sporadic at
best. Federal leadership and support at this time is critically
needed.
Public mental health systems know much about how to provide
services for people with mental illness who are at risk of
criminal justice involvement, but we face significant
challenges in translating all that we know into practice. We
must overcome the conflicts and inconsistencies inherent in
fragmented funding strategies at national, State, and local
levels.
Our efforts must involve a two-pronged approach. First, we
must prevent criminal justice involvement of people with mental
illness by diverting them into community treatment. And,
second, we must meet the needs of people with mental illness
who are returning to the community from jail or prison. And, of
course, it is essential to ensure that a mentally ill person
receives good treatment while incarcerated. This involves
forging links with jails and prisons to develop effective pre-
release planning, including reinstatement of benefits for those
who are eligible and identification of suitable housing.
Any systems approach must include the integration of
substance abuse and addictions treatment with mental health
interventions. Co-occurring illnesses must be seen as the
expectation and not the exception. We know from research that
when substance abuse co-exists with mental illness, the risk of
violence significantly increases.
The Council of State Governments' Criminal Justice/Mental
Health Consensus Project provides a superb template for action.
Its report reflects the concept that early intervention yields
best outcomes. In criminal justice terms, this means fewer
police encounters for people with mental illness, fewer people
with mental illness on court dockets or in jail holding cells,
less time spent behind bars, and a drop in recidivism rates.
For mental health, this means greater opportunity for
productive lives and meaningful community members and to reduce
the stigma associated with mental illness.
We recognize that people with mental illness will continue
to come into contact with the criminal justice system.
Therefore, we need to collaborate with law enforcement on
training such as that embodied in the Memphis, Tennessee,
Crisis Intervention Team model and others. In Massachusetts,
the department provides court clinic services to all juvenile
and district courts. These clinics function essentially as
emergency services programs to the district court, performing
evaluations for competency, criminal responsibilities, and for
civil commitment. Persons who are a danger to self or others by
reason of mental illness or by reason of substance abuse can be
civilly committed from the court after an evaluation by a
designated clinician, and a hearing, of course. Counsel in
these commitment hearings are all specially trained in mental
health law.
A model for pre-release planning is our Forensic Transition
Team. The team engages with the individual while incarcerated,
provides service coordination, continuity, and monitoring. The
key to success has been strong interagency collaboration with
criminal justice, cross-training, and very flexible services.
And there are many other models across the country that have
proven to be effective.
There are two final points I would like to offer. The CSG
report references that mental health systems are either too
overwhelmed or too frustrated to help some of these
individuals. Mental health systems have been overwhelmed, in
part, due to historic underfunding and erosion of base
resources. We have never realized President Kennedy's dream
that was envisioned in the Community Mental Health Centers Act
of 1963 that was represented earlier. And given that more than
40 States are experiencing significant budget shortfalls, this
situation is only exacerbated for public mental health systems.
Some of the solutions are reasonably obvious and not
controversial. There is no need to invent some new technology.
The lack of service response is due to funding. Then there are
a set of issues that may appear to provide the ready solution,
but the effects of which are largely unproven. And that is one
of the reasons we need your help. With these new strategies, I
would urge the thoughtful approach for innovation through
pilots and rigorous evaluation prior to rolling out in prime
time. The Substance Abuse Mental Health Services Administration
under the leadership of Charles Curie is to be commended for
following such a process through the targeted capacity
expansion rants for jail diversion programs.
The Criminal Justice/Mental Health Consensus Project
provides a model for effective collaboration. We are eager to
work with partners in law enforcement, the courts, and
corrections to ensure better outcomes for people with mental
health at risk of or with histories of criminal justice
involvement. At the same time, we welcome the advocacy of our
partners in the project in seeking improved services and
funding and consistent policies to support them.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Sudders appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chairman Leahy. Thank you very, very much.
Commissioner, go ahead.
STATEMENT OF KENNETH MAYFIELD, PRESIDENT-ELECT, NATIONAL
ASSOCIATION OF COUNTIES, AND COMMISSIONER, DALLAS COUNTY,
DALLAS, TEXAS
Mr. Mayfield. Chairman Leahy, thank you for inviting me to
testify this morning on an issue of major importance to county
governments--the diversion of non-violent mentally ill
offenders from county jails and juvenile detention facilities.
My name is Kenneth Mayfield, and I am an elected county
commissioner from Dallas County, Texas. I currently also serve
as president-elect of the National Association of Counties.
From 1980 until 1988, I worked as an assistant district
attorney for Dallas County, Texas, and eventually became chief
of its Juvenile Division.
It was during this period as the county's chief juvenile
prosecutor that I witnessed firsthand the growing number of
juveniles that were inappropriately housed in county detention
centers by virtue of their mental illness. After studying the
matter, it became apparent that the majority of persons with
mental illness--be they juveniles or adults--are serving time
for minor offenses and were usually not taking medication at
the time of their arrest. It was also clear that many persons
with a mental disability also suffered from a co-occurring
disorder, such as substance abuse or homelessness, and did not
have caregivers to oversee their daily care.
Over a year ago, I organized a community-based task force
in Dallas County to put together a comprehensive program to
divert the mentally ill who commit minor offenses. The key
focuses of the task force are: funding, housing, treatment
eligibility criteria, communications, education/training, and
law enforcement.
Mr. Chairman, I have been gratified to receive the full
support of every law enforcement agency in Dallas County. I
have also met with a number of foundations and agencies
interested in this program. We are presently in the process of
submitting grant proposals to fund a full continuum of
services. At the core of the system is a triage unit that ties
together intake and assessment, health care, emergency,
transitional, and permanent housing, among other services.
The task force has already completed the production of its
first video to provide education and training for law
enforcement at every point of contact with the adult criminal
justice system for persons with mental illness, mental
retardation, and co-occurring substance abuse disorders. Videos
to follow will target judges, prosecutors, defense attorneys,
family members, paramedics, emergency room staff, and the
community in general.
Mr. Chairman, the mentally ill in jail and juvenile
detention are not a problem unique to Dallas County. Of the 10
million admissions to county jails each year, it is estimated
that 16 percent are individuals suffering from mental illness.
Most of these individuals have committed only minor
infractions, more often the manifestation of their illness than
the result of criminal intent. In 1999, the Bureau of Justice
Statistics released a study on the Mentally Ill in Jail. The
study confirmed that too often mentally ill inmates tend to
follow a revolving door, from homelessness to incarceration and
then back to the streets. Too many of these individuals do not
get adequate treatment and end up being arrested again.
The study underscores the importance of adequate
assessments. In Los Angeles County, for example, teams of
mental health workers and community police officers divert the
mentally ill from the scene of an incident, but not before they
make a preliminary assessment. In the vast majority of cases,
the diversion is to a health unit.
Mr. Chairman, what the public needs to understand about
this population is not just that they will significantly
benefit from a system of comprehensive services, including
housing, health and human services, but also that it would be
less expensive and more effective in the long term. For minor
offenders, community-based mental health care is far less
expensive than maintaining them in jail.
By keeping the mentally ill within the health and human
services system, we are also better able to monitor their
condition, provide treatment, and to dispense medication if
needed.
Jail has the opposite effect. It traumatizes the mentally
ill and makes them worse. For the county health department
psychiatrist, it often means working twice as hard to get them
back to where they were when they entered the jail. For the
sheriff, it may mean assigning a deputy to carefully monitor
the individual in jail.
Mr. Chairman, the confinement of the non-violent mentally
ill in county jails also represents a major liability problem
for county governments. In addition, it is a financial drain on
county budgets since Federal and State funding streams usually
shut down when a mentally ill individual enters the jail. Even
the person's own insurance policy may contain an exclusion for
jail confinement.
Multnomah County, Oregon, found that the mentally ill
defendants stay in jail one-third longer than those who are not
mentally ill. Lengthy incarcerations not only worsen their
condition, they almost guarantee difficulties after their
release.
For example, in many States, even a short stay in the
county jail is enough to disenroll a mentally ill person from
such entitlements as Social Security, Medicaid and/or Medicare.
Once an individual is released from jail, he or she is eligible
to receive such benefits, but it may take weeks or months for
the programs to be restored.
The need for collaboration between criminal justice and
health and human service agencies at the local level in dealing
with the mentally ill cannot be overemphasized. The challenge
is to create a seamless web of comprehensive services.
King County, Washington, has successfully created
integrated service systems for people with mental illness and
other co-occurring disorders. The goal is to share clients,
share information, share planning, and share resources across
agency lines. In the words of one former county administrator,
the experience in King County has demonstrated that the major
challenge is creating a new system. ``It is a matter of joint
planning, pooling resources, and more effectively managing
existing resources toward new goals.''
In conclusion, Mr. Chairman, the National Association of
Counties has been working with a coalition of more than 30
national organizations on a proposal for Federal assistance to
foster community collaborations between criminal justice and
health and human service agencies. The proposal provides
counties with considerable flexibility to design creative
solutions and to stimulate partnership programs between State
and county governments.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Mayfield appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chairman Leahy. Thank you very much, Commissioner, and you
have raised some very interesting points, including the one
about the insurance stopping when they are incarcerated.
Captain?
STATEMENT OF JOHN CACECI, CAPTAIN, MONROE COUNTY JAIL,
ROCHESTER, NEW YORK
Captain Caceci. I would also like to thank Representative
Mayfield. I appreciate those words regarding corrections.
Good morning. My name is John Caceci, and I am captain at
the Monroe County Jail in Rochester, New York. Thank you,
Chairman Leahy and Ranking Member Hatch, for inviting me to
testify. I also want to thank my Senator, Chuck Schumer. I am
particularly grateful to my sheriff, Patrick O'Flynn, for
allowing me to represent our jail.
Speaking for corrections officers across the country, I can
tell you that identifying inmates with mental illness and
treating, managing, and preparing them for release is one of
the greatest, if not the single greatest challenges we face in
overcrowded jails and prisons.
I also want to acknowledge the value of the Consensus
Project report. Although I did not participate in the effort, I
know that the corrections community was represented
extensively. The recommendations in that document are exactly
on point.
On any given day, there are about 1,400 inmates in our
jail. Like any jail, the average length of stay for inmates in
our facility is short. Over the course of a year, over 17,000
inmates will be booked into our facility.
Like every county in the country, our jail has experienced
explosive growth over the last two decades. Our facility also
resembles most jails in that it is the county's largest mental
health facility. No other institution in Monroe County holds
nearly as many people with mental illness, and that is just not
right.
We work in a jail and our job is to incarcerate offenders,
not hospitalize sick people. With my testimony today, I would
like to review several points. First I want to give you an idea
of the types of people who have mental illness who land in our
jail. Second, I would like to explain the services we attempt
to provide these inmates. Third, I will describe the impact the
current situation has on the operation of our jail. And,
finally, I would like to recommend some steps that this
committee could take to help corrections administrators and
line staff address this overwhelming problem.
Between 15 and 20 percent of the inmates in our jail have a
mental illness, which is consistent with most jails in the
country. I want to be clear that we incarcerate many offenders
who have committed serious, violent crimes, and some of those
people have a mental illness. Like was said earlier, they need
to be punished and they need to be in jail. There are no two
ways about that.
But the majority of people we see with mental illness in
our jail aren't murderers or sex offenders, or even criminals
with a history of violence. They are people who have been in
and out of our jail on countless occasions, charged with
committing low-level offenses.
We don't blame law enforcement officers for taking these
people to our jail. They often don't have any other option.
Take, for example, the young man whom police recently brought
to us. He had a history of mental illness and was on several
mental health medications. He had been giving his mother an
extremely hard time. He had threatened her, and one evening he
was particularly menacing. The mother was frightened, so she
called 911. The police knew the emergency room would not
provide prolonged care, so they brought him to jail. We placed
him in a single cell on a 24-hour suicide watch.
In regard to screening, in New York State we are unique in
that each jail uses the same screening process. Our protocols
are extremely effective. Jail suicides have dropped by 70
percent over the last decade in our State. At some point, we
hope to establish a system in which the mental health community
can inform us when someone with mental illness whom they have
served is in our jail.
Good release planning is paramount. I know we have talked
about it earlier. I can't say enough about it. We know an
effective discharge plan includes appointments with community-
based treatment providers, a short supply of medications,
health coverage, and linkage to supportive housing. Meeting all
of these objectives is difficult, but it is nearly impossible
with pre-trial detainees. Staff often receive less than 2 hours
advance notice of these inmates' departure.
Inmates will mental illness sometimes act out and violate
rules, which means we have to reassign them to high-security
cells, typically reserved for dangerous inmates. Other inmates
with mental illness are vulnerable to predatory inmates. Other
inmates with mental illness refuse medication or become
manipulative. We try to discourage our staff from using a
restraint chair, but sometimes it can't be avoided. I worry
that as staff try to restrain the inmate, someone will get
injured.
I also have in the back of my mind stories I hear from
colleagues in other facilities across the country that things
get out of control as the officers try to subdue an inmate,
inadvertently asphyxiating him or her.
This is one of many reasons for providing extensive
training. We are fortunate that Sheriff O'Flynn commits
extensive time and resources to our annual training.
We would like to increase mental health coverage in our
facility 24 hours a day. We are very reluctant, however, to
advocate for extensive mental health services in our jail. As
it is, we receive too many people with mental illness. A first-
rate psychiatric unit in our jail would simply draw more people
with mental illness into our facility and discourage building
and facilitating better mental health treatment options in our
communities.
For this reason, we would prefer that the community's
capacity to support people with mental illness improve. We
would welcome community mental health providers into our
facilities.
If we are going to make meaningful change around this
issue, we will need the leadership of this committee and the
Federal Government. First, corrections needs to be included in
any Federal effort or grant program designed to target
offenders.
Second, the Federal Government is in a unique position to
promote collaborative efforts between corrections and the
mental health community.
And, third, the importance of training correctional staff
on mental health issues cannot be overstated. In this regard,
the National Institute of Corrections is an invaluable
resource.
In conclusion, local jails should not be in the business of
running hospital emergency rooms for people with mental
illness. When it comes to people with mental illness, we in
corrections have been handed an incredibly complex problem
which has to be addressed. We are returning people with mental
illness to the community many times in no better shape than
when we received them. We are doing everything we can to make
sure these people don't hurt themselves and their health
doesn't deteriorate further. This makes it very difficult for
us to focus on protecting staff and inmates and the community.
That is supposed to be our primary mission. Please help us
fulfill it.
Thank you very much.
[The prepared statement of Captain Caceci appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chairman Leahy. Thank you very much, Captain.
I have a statement by Senator DeWine which will be included
in the record at the opening of this and a statement--written
testimony, rather, by Reginald Wilkinson, the Director of the
Ohio Department of Rehabilitation and Corrections. That can be
included in the record.
Let me ask, Chief Margolis--and this is a question that
actually several members on this committee have. What about
when you get to a rural State, like Vermont, or rural areas of
a larger State, with the unique problems in a rural area?
Chief Margolis. Well, certainly, Senator, the problems are
in any jurisdiction, but in rural jurisdictions, they can be
exacerbated. Let me answer that question, sir, with a short
story.
Sheriff Don Edson of the Washington County Sheriff's Office
relayed to me just several days ago that 2 weeks ago his
deputies had taken into custody a person who had committed a
crime. This person had mental illness.
Now, Washington County, as you well know, sir, is 790
square miles with 53,000 residents. That is approximately 67
people for every square mile. That is fairly rural.
The individual was brought to the court. The judge, the
defense, the prosecution all agreed that a mental health
assessment was needed, and the deputies had to wait for over 2
and a half hours with that person for someone to come and
screen. Now, that is 2 and a half hours that those deputies
were taken away from the community to serve other calls for
service.
So this is very common, and it is frustrating, and other
sheriffs and other police chiefs in our State of Vermont in the
rural areas echoed this frustration.
Chairman Leahy. That was about Washington County. I grew up
there, and I have known Sheriff Edson from the time he was a
child. I know the situation you talk about.
The Council of State Governments report has a lot of
proposals and recommendations. If there are key areas that the
Federal Government should work on, what are those?
Chief Margolis. Well, the models that were underscored and
found, Senator, include areas like crisis intervention teams
and comprehensive advance response where officers are specially
trained. They work with mental health responders. In some
jurisdictions, mental health professionals either respond as
special units or as mobile crisis teams.
We have looked at dispatch protocols, how calls are
handled, and examined the kinds of questions that are asked by
the dispatcher at the initial intake; on-scene assessment
skills, how are officers trained to recognize those issues;
what training topics should be included in police academies and
in in-service training to help in these areas; information
gathering and how do we evaluate the success of our response;
and then, last, and certainly not least, is the collaborative
areas that we can work with our colleagues in mental health and
in corrections and in the county governments to begin to
develop new tools to respond more effectively.
Chairman Leahy. There have been some places in the country
where there have been experiments with mental health courts. Do
you have any experience with that?
Chief Margolis. Sir, my experience with mental health
courts is limited. My understanding is that there are a number
of areas and a number of ways that our criminal justice
professionals are seeking to address that issue.
In speaking with members of our Vermont judiciary, what I
learned was that we have commitment hearings that we use, but
not very much done in the area of mental health courts per se.
Chairman Leahy. Captain, I am back to your testimony. I
think we can all agree that if people commit a crime, then
there are consequences for criminal conduct. I spent 8 years in
law enforcement before I was here, and I certainly have no
question about that.
Nobody wants to see mental illness used as an excuse to
avoid such consequences, and we have seen cases where somebody
has tried to use that as an excuse when it is not applicable.
So how do you do this? You have got somebody who comes in.
How do you determine whether they should be staying in jail or
they should be transferred to mental health services?
Captain Caceci. In Monroe County, we have a wonderful
collaborative effort with our mental health staff. The socio-
legal clinic for the county handles all of our mental health
situations.
One of the things we have done is, on a daily basis, we
meet with medical, mental health, and security commanders in
the facilities, and we sit down on a daily basis Monday through
Friday at 11 o'clock, and we go over each case of people with
serious mental illness who is in custody, all of the cases of
individuals who may be on suicide watch, and we discuss them
and we try to figure out who needs to maybe go to a facility
that has more extensive mental health coverage or could we
approach one of the judges with mental health, psychiatry, and
those types of people to see if we can get those people placed
in some supportive housing or other living situation.
So we work in a collaborative effort to try to move certain
people out of the facility.
Chairman Leahy. But you are welcoming the mental health
professionals into the jail. You make this kind of
determination. Is there a general willingness, do you think,
among law enforcement to do that? I mean, are you unique? Or
are you seeing this more and more around with other law
enforcement?
Captain Caceci. Senator, I recently have gone to the
American Jail Association's convention in Milwaukee, and I see
from across the country colleagues such as myself that are
really trying to move in this direction, are trying to have
more collaborative efforts with their local mental health
people, and really trying to move to get those kinds of people
with serious mental illness out of their facilities, because it
is a tremendous drain on their resources, staffing, and what
have you to really watch these people closely. And they don't
want to see people deteriorate while they are in the facility.
So I think it is across the country that we are seeing this
movement.
Chairman Leahy. Would it be an overstatement to say you
want to be involved in law enforcement and you want people who
should be in a mental health situation to be dealt with by
people who trained to do mental health matters?
Captain Caceci. Yes, sir.
Chairman Leahy. Commissioner Sudders, what is your
experience about how law enforcement and mental health agencies
work together at the State level to address this? And the
reason I ask, I am just trying to think about what kind of a
model we have to talk about at the Federal level between the
Department of Justice and Health and Human Services, and I am
just curious. What has been your experience at the State level?
Ms. Sudders. In Massachusetts, I am lucky and honored to
have actually a very strong relationship with the commissioner
of corrections. And so, in fact, the relationship between
mental health and corrections at the State level is very
strong. I actually have sort of quality control over the mental
health services provided in the correctional system in
Massachusetts to someone who is mentally ill in the prison
system. They can also in the jails in Massachusetts transfer
from jails to the public mental health system for inpatient
care of there is a mentally ill offender who needs--who is
really acutely ill, they can transfer.
So the State level in Massachusetts, probably because both
Commissioner Maloney and I believe very strongly about
collaboration, we have a strong partnership. And so, in fact,
on re-entry programs, my staff go into the prisons to start
working with people who are mentally ill offenders to help, to
engage with them so that when they are leaving the prison we
can connect them with benefits and get them into the mental
health system rather than sort of back on to the streets and
into crime.
But that is because of our relationship, I would say, and
not because of some systems approach, if you would. And I think
one of the things that I would point out from the CSJ report is
that there is no one size to fit each State. Massachusetts is
not a county-based system, for example, so you would not want
to craft legislation that said it would all be county-based,
because in Massachusetts that wouldn't be terribly helpful.
But one of the things the CSJ report talks about in
collaborations, and anything that the Senate would consider I
would strongly urge that would require the collaboration and
true partnership between mental health and criminal justice,
and then allow States and counties and providers to sort of
determine what makes the most sense given how we have sort of
figured out our systems, if you would, but that you would
require in any legislation, in any funding, true collaboration
between mental health and criminal justice that you have to
demonstrate in whatever kinds of applications come forward. We
all know you can sign a letter saying, yes, you know, we sat
down and talked, but really true collaborations is the key.
The other thing I would say that the jails--I think
sheriffs are doing everything they can to respond out of
necessity. I think the quality in jails is dependent, again,
upon who the sheriff is and how many mentally ill people are in
their jails and whether they want to provide treatment or
really just have the mental health system take care of them.
But for me, sir, I would say that what the mental health system
needs to do with criminal justice is to divert people,
particularly the low-incidence crimes, you know, the nuisance
crimes, that our responsibility is to really divert them so
that they never get into jails. And that is what we need to do,
and I would urge you, as you ask the question of the chief,
really looking at the diversion programs, mobile crisis
intervention teams, assessments, working closely police with
mental health experts, so that we divert people from ever
entering into the system to begin within.
Chairman Leahy. Well, Commissioner, when you mention that,
it makes me think, Commissioner Mayfield, if I am correct in
the briefing material I was reading, you helped initiate a
diversion program in Dallas. I was thinking on the practicality
of it, because I happen to agree with Commissioner Sudders on
this. How do you determine who should be diverted to mental
health services and who, because of either themselves or the
nature of what they have done, is going to have to be held
right there in jail?
Mr. Mayfield. Well, that is a very tricky assessment,
Senator, but every police department in Dallas County--and
right now they are gathering statistics for me on the number
that they think they would divert on a weekly basis to this
type of program. But every--I met with all of the police chiefs
in Dallas County, and there are 26 cities within the county.
And every one--I thought there might be a problem in--we are
trying to open up a mental health triage that is open 24 hours
for these individuals who are minor offenders, basically
victimless crimes that they happen to be arrested and taken to
the city's holdover and then transferred down to the counties
because of their behavior, which is usually related to their
mental health condition. And I thought there might be a problem
in having them transport these individuals to this location,
which we would like to locate somewhere close to the county
jail in some proximity because that is where they used to come
in. Now, it didn't matter where it is located, where the city
is located In Dallas County, how far it is. They are willing to
bring these individuals down to this location so that they can
get the help they need rather than putting them in their own
facilities or the county's facilities where they know their
condition is just going to worsen.
We have produced a video. We are looking at all of the
training that they get in their academies. We are making
recommendations on perhaps some longer training, some in-depth
scenarios, and we have done this with mentally ill and mentally
retarded individuals, and police officers in a video to show
what is the most common encounter that you would have with
someone who suffers from a mental illness or mental
retardation, and then how you respond to that.
Of course, each department has to come up with criteria
of--we hope it will be uniform, and we think it will be--of
individuals that they would divert to this system. They have to
be comfortable that when they bring them down there that they
are going to be taken care of, they are going to be assessed,
we are going to find out where they have been getting services,
if they are homeless. And, by the way, I can't emphasize enough
permanent housing is the key to this revolving door, because
you can divert----
Chairman Leahy. I see a lot of heads shaking yes.
Mr. Mayfield. You can divert all you want, but if they
don't--if there is not some sort of supervised living condition
for these people, who are often homeless, have no friends, have
no family, or if they do have friends and family, they are not
engaged with them to monitor them on a casual basis at the
least, to see what they are doing, they are taking the
medication that they should be taking at the time that they
should be taking it, and keeping them out of situations where
they come into contact with law enforcement.
So that is a real key, and that is what we are really
working on. We are working with HUD on vouchers and trying to
set up not just triage mental health location but emergency and
transitional housing and then permanent housing for these
individuals so we can truly keep them out of the jails.
Chairman Leahy. What is the population of Dallas County?
Mr. Mayfield. It is 2.2 million people.
Chairman Leahy. Like the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, we
have counties, but we don't really have a county form of
government. But these models are transferable easy enough to
whatever----
Mr. Mayfield. Yes.
Chairman Leahy. Whether you have a State system or a
Commonwealth system.
Am I correct that the National Association of Counties has
put this issue of mentally ill offenders right up near the top?
Mr. Mayfield. It is at the top. I am the incoming
president, Senator. It is one of my two initiatives. The other
is early childhood development. This is diverting the mentally
ill from county jails. So this is the top priority that NACo
has--one of the two top priorities.
Chairman Leahy. Kind of nice to be the boss, isn't it?
[Laughter.]
Mr. Mayfield. Yes, sir.
Chairman Leahy. I was going to say, it is something like
being a committee chairman. You can set the priorities.
I want to thank you all for this. We had asked you--you
know, you are going to get the transcript back of this hearing
and all. If you get some other ideas, things that I forgot to
ask or thoughts you have, don't hesitate to add it. We want to
learn from this, as Congressman Strickland was saying when he
came in here. Or if you get some ideas and you just want to
send them to me, just send them directly to me and I will look
at it. We want a good piece of legislation. We don't want to
pass something just for the heck of passing something.
I think it is a major problem. I thought it was a problem
back when I was a prosecutor, but it has gotten much, much
worse. You are talking about the homeless situation and all,
and I want law enforcement to be able to do law enforcement.
And I want the ability to help those who have mental problems
that they be helped. Chief Margolis referred to this situation
we had in Brattleboro. It was a terrible situation. The
Attorney General's office rules the actions appropriate on the
part of the police officers. But I am sure for the police
officers, this is nothing that gave them any great joy to be
put in a situation like that, and they shouldn't have to be.
So I thank you. I commend you for what you are doing. I
think all four of you have extraordinarily difficult jobs. And
maybe people should realize that those who take a career in
public service keep this country going, and I applaud all of
you.
We will stand in recess.
Mr. Mayfield. Senator, let me just add, let me just say if
there is any help that NACo as an organization can give to the
success of this legislation, and certainly in looking at it and
helping with comments, but I personally can give--in testifying
before any committee or lobbying any of my colleagues on the
Hill, rest assured that we will do it.
Chairman Leahy. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you
all.
[Whereupon, at 11:07 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]
[Submission for the record follow.]
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